
Music Industry scores the closing of www.lyrics.ch 116
Hasdi R Hashim
writes "The searchable
lyrics site has been
shut down by local authorities today believe it or not.
Once again, the big megalomaniac company goes after
non-profit little fish." With over a million hits a day,
one would think the music industry would know better than
to irritate that many consumers.
They don't have a case (Score:1)
PS. Harry Fox Agency was also responsible for shutting OLGA
I wish there was something we all could do, to protect ourselves from the foolish wrath of the RIAA and Harry Fox Agency.
argh. (Score:1)
These continuing fascist actions by the recording and software industry make sure that i don't lose any sleep at all over mp3's and so-called pirated software. The moment it dies i'll spit on its corpse, while it still lives i spit in its face.
Marx was right with his historical materialism, and i hope the music and software industry as we know it today will be replaced by the people with the more superior form of production, open source and mp3, before it grows into even more of an opressing monstrosity than it is today.
Preserve the power on your side - F242
Harry Fox (MPAA) e-mail address (Score:1)
license request?
Contact the Client Services
Department at
clientservice@harryfox.com
--Robin Miller
Truly Sad Day (Score:1)
The copyright protection racket industry could be sowing the seeds of its own doom with this, just as the Stamp Tax etc spelled the doom of British authority in colonial America. You can only push so hard against people before they being pushing back. People who would have gladly kept paying $15 dollars for CD's and otherwise gone on opposing unauthorized music reproduction for profit are going to start thinking twice after enough things like this. The music industry is just alienating their customers.
Public Slashdot NYtimes account.. (Score:1)
Please.... (Score:1)
Whatever the outcome, let's protect ourselves (Score:1)
That is sick. Sick sick sick.
I love it.
--Mephie
...and another /. cc of letter to HFA (Score:1)
Here's what I sent to the bozos at HFA. At least if it's posted here, someone might read it.
You've done it again. First OLGA, now Lyrics.ch.
I am angered and dismayed at this continuation of strong-armed tactics that don't make any sense. While I can't hope to contest the legal grounds for what you did, I fail to see what financial or moral justification would warrent this action.
Tonight I tried to help out my sister-in-law who was trying to find a good song about transportation that her 8 year-old daughter could sing for a school project. I fired up my web browser and went to the International Lyrics Server to begin the search. Gone.
I also frequented the lyrics server on a regular basis for both personal and business reasons. As the music director for a wedding band, it provided a consistently reliable resource for obtaining lyrics for new songs.
Or how about workgroup trivia: "Now what was that song about 'ditty wa ditty'?" Or "Anyone know what band played the song we just hear on the radio?" Oh yeah. That was it! (click here to buy CD -- NOT!)
Now, where do I go? You force me to hunt down sheet music, buy CDs where I may or may not find printed lyrics, or spend an hour trying to decipher the singers vocals.
These are all pay-for-use activities, meaning the publisher and lyricist get their due, but it's way less convenient for me than doing a simple web search on a database. What kind of marketing strategy is that?
The recording industry offers no alternative to the lyrics server. If I could pay and subscribe to a service that allowed me to call up lyrics, I'd consider it in a moment.
The fact of the matter is, you and the industry appear to be striking out at what you interperet as threatening. But since you haven't planned how to exploit the lyrics marketplace, giving me an option up to the standards of convenience and cost us Internet users have come to expect, you've done nothing but alienate me as a happy, faithful music consumer.
In fact, I am moved to more aggressively find other, less legal means of obtaining music and lyrics at the expense of the musicians whose rights you aim to protect.
As I stated in a previous email message to you about OLGA, you could take a lesson from other industries who have learned that providing free content and products or loss leaders drums up interest and activity. It's good customer service and it brings those customers back to the table for more. Don't you get it? You and your artists win!
I imagine this will all shake out in the next year or two with some old and new industry players who actually get the power of the Internet providing downloadable music, lyrics, and valuable ancillary information. That's prime time! Your outdated business model is not ready for that, and you have outlived your usefulness to me and the artists your represent.
I smile to myself as I think forward, post-milleneum, to an article headline in the online NY Times... "Harry Fox Agency forced to declare bancruptcy. They just didn't get it."
cyberpunk WITHOUT the s (Score:1)
cyberpunks worked last time I tried, but not this time. Now however cyberpunk (no s) works. Gotta try both on most sites, and if neither works create one.
passwords? (Score:1)
Granted swiss law is different from US law, but I'm confused. They seised comptuers. Then they ordered the passwords given up.
Now US law gives me the right to protect myself against this attacks, and if revealing a password would mean testifing against me I plead the fifth. (Which would at least require a seperate court order with lawyers involved. Not sure the above would protect me, but at the very least I wouldn't have given up my passwords this easially.
Oh, Grow up! (Score:1)
I'm surprized at the level of most comments here. Get a clue: the world does not owe you everything you want on a gold platter (silver isn't good enough for spioled brats like you, is it?)
I'll certianly agree that many of the things the music recording industry does are not good for them, but they have a right to do things as they want to. Now if you want to go through all the lyrics on that server and remove the ones without copywright permission, great. If they own the copyright you need to obey the laws about distributing them. These laws are not well defined, and those who are going against them should expect some pain in getting them defined.
Still, the artist who make songs (not just lyrics) dserve a chance to earn a living doing so. If they feel (forget about if they are right, that isn't at issue) that free access to their lyrics is a loss for them, they have the right to stop distribution of them. If they want to be a small fish in the worlds sea, they have a right to make their creation hard to get at. Likewise the companies have a right to earn money for their creation.
Remember this doesn't deal with if their actions are good or bad for them. They have a right to do it, and in fact the law is tricky enough that they probably have to stop distribution. Live with it, not everything will go your way. They have a point of view, and it is valid. It doesn't have to be right, but nobody is willing to admit their point of view has any merits, which it does.
Transcription and Public Performance (Score:1)
How is this different than a reporter typing up the transcript from a speech given at a public event or a news journalist repeating a statement made by a public official on the sidewalk?
If someone typed up the lyrics word for word from the inside of a CD Jewel case that's one thing, but I think there is an argument for the other.
Unfortunately, there isn't enough money in the world to fight them on this.
a bit of a flaw (Score:1)
Yeah.. class action wouldn't work. Wrong approach. It would have to be a constitutional issue here in the States. Some sort of free speech issue I would guess. I think that posting peoples interpretation of the lyrics should be legal. On the other hand, many albums include lyrics. Should it then be illegal to post those lyrics on the net? I don't think it should, since the music industry does not sell it's lyrics, they are simply a part of the song, and knowing them may help people have a better appreciation for the work of the artists involved. It doesn't seem to cause any harm whatsoever to the music industry or the artists themselves. As long as the lyrics are properly attributed to the artist (and possibly distributor too), there shouldn't be any problem with making them available on the net. Either way, it doesn't help the guys in Switzerland. They have their own crappy laws to deal with.
Making sure the site closure hurts (Score:1)
I like it. At least it's something. I don't expect it to influence them. They tend to get mad rather than get smart, but money is what gets their attention, so you're on the right track. We need publicity, and a way to inform the public and combat the deceptions that the RIAA spews.
Making sure the site closure hurts (Score:1)
I hope that was sarcasm. People scare me sometimes :)
Oh, Grow up! (Score:1)
Transcription and Public Performance (Score:1)
Beyond that, they should be required to prove that the defendants KNEW the lyrics were copied rather than transcribed. Otherwise, the defendant is just another victim.
No incentive to make music = no music (Score:1)
their favorite reason is that without profit incentive, musicians won't
be willing to make recordings.
Damnit, I'm going to quit playing right now. I just can't stand all of my multi million dollar CD's getting pirated!!! I'm losing millions of dollars here by pirates!!!!!
In fact not only am I going to quit making CD's, I'm going to quit even listening to music!!!
Like are there any musicians who actually don't lose millions of dollars in CD sales because their lyrics are getting pirated?!?!?!?!
Not quite right... (Score:1)
So, a good question here is wether the artists actually cared, or if it's the record companies just doing it on their own? After all, record companies have recently forced artists to remove their own songs from the 'net.
The problem is that only mega-corporations are having their "rights" enforced, and are often enforcing the rights of others, whether they want them enforced or not.
Missing The Boat. (Score:1)
I do believe that the lyrics belong to whoever wrote them, i.e. 'Intellectual Property' I don't believe however, that the Music Industry has the rights to speak for millions of artists out there who've had their songs posted.
It's not like the Music Industry hasn't made a few bucks off of Compact Discs. I imagine, these days, it costs less than $.50 US to make a cd, jewel case, liner notes included. They still cost around $15 apiece. What a crock.
selective amnesia? (Score:1)
Support www.lyrics.ch (Score:1)
(p.s. anyone got an email addy for the guys that run www.lyrics.ch?)
Why one? (Score:1)
Counterproductive (Score:1)
All that happens is that you get more numerous
and less comprehensive sites distributed
round the Net, which makes them even HARDER
to combat.
I'm with the Web on this one.
Argh. (Score:1)
Argh.
Grrr... damnation. The Thing Ruled.
Don't you understand, they don't care. (Score:1)
Why...? (Score:1)
What's next? The local smalltown no-name band getting busted at a gig because they did a cover of a song?
It's absurd.
-mickey
Another link... (Score:1)
This has got to be one of the stupidest things the music industry has done. I've used lyrics.ch on numerous occassions to find songs I've heard on the radio and didn't know the name of so I could buy the album....
Complaints? Fuck em. I've got a better way. (Score:1)
This sucks... (Score:1)
------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...
Artists get less than 1$ per album... (Score:1)
I dub thee a shallow thinker.
---------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...
time to go to law school (Score:1)
I will have to think this decision through...
If they really sue this guy... (Score:1)
It's absurd. The police actually confiscated his two computers!
What's next? www.cddb.com?
Harry Fox Agency and Polygram websites? (Score:1)
711 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10017
Domain Name: HARRYFOX.COM
PolyGram Holding, Inc. (POLYGRAM5-DOM)
825 8th Avenue
New York, NY 10019
US
Domain Name: POLYGRAM.COM
Lack of incentive might be good... (Score:1)
Don't most musicians, and artists in general, get into it because they enjoy it? Those of you in garage bands, how many are doing it with the expectation of getting rich?
I don't think a lack of financial incentive would deter new musicians much, if at all. What it WOULD do (and this would be good, imho) is stop musicians from producing music after it ceased being enjoyable to them. I mean, come on, how many bands are there that used to be great, but began to suck soon after they became big stars and money came into the picture?
Kiss
Rolling Stones
Aerosmith
Van Halen
Metallica
the list goes on and on....
These bands should have hung it up a long time ago, but still continue to churn out crap because there's a ton of money in it. Maybe if there wasn't so much money in music, there would be more _quality_ music.
Why (Score:1)
what does that mean? it means I can't quote this:
"they say it's no game
that strange news from another star
alas, alas, that strange news from another star"
- Blur "Strange news from another star"
personally I think hunting down the people that buy the music is pathetic and I'll probably see someone in court when they read this =]
- MbM
Internet SUCKS HARD (Score:1)
Lyrics == Books ? (Score:1)
The copyright madness is getting majorly out of hand.
copyright (Score:1)
my solution is, as much as possible, to mail order from small labels who do it for the love of the music, like Wayside [aol.com] or New Sonic Architecture [sonarc.net] or the Artist Shop [artist-shop.com], or even better directly from the artists, when they offer it. This way they get most of the money.
Oh, Grow up! (Score:1)
Human culture (Score:1)
Is it just me, or does this view of culture seem as if it has inherent problems? :)
"Knock knock!!!" (Score:1)
Wouldn't put it past Harry Fox and company.
Huh? Idiot music industry lawyers... (Score:1)
It's the NME... (Score:1)
"I would weep for the future, if there were one." (Score:1)
After all, those who step out of line and desecrate the sanctity of Intellectual Property(tm) can't be real people, and must therefor deserve the wrath they bring down upon themselves. Why else would our legal institutions, in which we are expected and required to place so much trust (under pain of punishment and social censure, complete with such labels as "slashdot longhair," "leftist radical," "pinko commie bastard," "shameless free thinker" and the like), come down so hard on them? Why else indeed. With the new copyright legislation in America set to kick in in another few months (and the near certainty that similar legislation will be enacted by other governments as well -- probably as a direct result American pressure), the only thing left say is the unsettling truth that, for all the distress such headlines may bring us, we ain't seen nothing yet.
Remember... (Score:1)
/. clientservice@harryfox.com (Score:1)
How much you wanna bet... (Score:1)
Lyrics == Books ? (Score:1)
> how big of a role do lyrics play in you liking a
> song ?
You think getting the lyrics for an album will keep people from buying it? I don't know anyone who has bought an album merely for the lyrics.
You can't compare a song by Bowie or Hendrix with its lyrics. Its lyrics are nothing. You can't compare listening to a concert with having someone merely read you the lyrics, can you?
I don't think they play a big role.
> Would you still love 'Imagine', for example, as
> much if the lyrics were not there ?
The lyrics are only worth because they are part of the song. How much would you pay to get the lyrics on a piece of paper? And how much would you pay to get the lyrics if you didn't know the song, if it didn't exist?
Azul.
i'm really angry... (Score:1)
the text or what, cause i'm only interested in the lyrics... i tell you something: not mp3, nor the internet destroys the music-industrie... the music-industrie destroy itself... what has this todo with music, what's going on nowadays? only money counts... you can see it all day, can hear it all day, all the shit that is pushed by the industrie... what's up? i really don't know, that makes me angry and sad... you profit orientet fucking lamers,...
When the hell will it stop? (Score:1)
Time for a "new paradigm"? (Score:1)
Would the Id Software mentality work in the music industry? Would the Stones, for example, release a couple of new mp3 tracks, and let you purchase the rest of the new album right off their site? For say, $5?? It would be more than what they get per sale in the current scheme..
Does anyone know anyone at the EFF or GNU, that might be able to bring music into the fold?
If you want to fight this... (Score:1)
--
Howard Roark, Architect
Internet SUCKS HARD (Score:1)
--
Howard Roark, Architect
/. is biased (Score:1)
Assholes (Score:1)
Public Slashdot NYtimes account.. (Score:1)
That must suck (Score:1)
NaTaS
Band Decisions (Score:1)
is there anything that can be done? (Score:1)
If you want to tell the co. responsible for this.. (Score:1)
write the company responsible:
Harry Fox Agency at
http://www.nmpa.org/hfa.html
HFA
711 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10017
Tel: (212) 370-5330
Fax: (212) 953-2384
Questions about HFA or a
license request?
Contact the Client Services
Department at
clientservice@harryfox.com [mailto]
Mirror sites? (Score:1)
Wouldn't it be a shame if 12 or 100 new lyric sites started popping up all over the place????
Maybe while trying to flex it's muscles, and show the average internet user how powerful the music industry can be, it might have just awoken a sleeping giant.
Send angry letters here (Score:1)
Foremost, it was free advertising for artists. 100,000 users totalling a million hits a day of people looking for the artist and album of the song they just heard on the radio, but didn't catch the info? That is, on a very ungenerous estimate, 50,000 customers a day who won't be able to find the correct album they want, and 100,000 customers _daily_ who will grumble under their breath at your agency for shutting the server down.
I, personally, have bought three CDs in the last 5 months or so because I found the correct album thanks to the lyrics server.
Also, I am the founder and channel manager for the UnderNet IRC chat room, #Poetry. I regularly used lyrics.ch to check up on questionable poems to see if they had plagarised a song, and have actually found a few plagarists of your copyrighted songs thanks to this server.
Thirdly, it is not like anyone could use the lyrics effectively to infringe on your copyrights of the song in general. To be able to cover the song de cently, they would still have to have all the guitar tabs and whatnot, and, in truth, a version of the song recorded to listen to. So, even for people covering the song, they've already bought the CD, just are double-checking the lyrics.
Personally, I'm not going to buy a non-used CD that has any relation to Harry Fox until I see the lyrics server back up.
You've lost a customer.
Have we thought of this solution? (Score:1)
iscariot
/. is biased (Score:1)
Of course
I agree that they did what is 'legally' right. It was totally within their power. But what I, and most others oppose is the iron-grip tactics that they use to stifle anything that is not "Their Way". And it appears, at least to me, that Their Way is whatever is most lucrative.
-- Duane
Copyright 'protection' (Score:1)
>For a copyright to be enforceable, courts (at >least in the US) have determined that
>the copyright holder must exercise diligence
>in protecting and enforcing the copyright...
Not so. That applies only to trademark law, and
diligence in enforcing a trademark in court or
in cease-and-desist letters is only one factor
in determining if a trademark has lapsed.
The Harry Fox Agency only had lyrics.ch shut down
for the same reason a dog licks his balls: because
it can.
Aaron
copyright fanatical terrorism (Score:1)
I hate the music industry and their copyright fanatical terrorism. I considered the lyrics server a great resource, and now it is gone, probably forever.
I wish someone would start an electronic email campaign or something we can do to support Pascal de Vries and show the music industry that this kind of copyright terrorism will not be tolerated by the free music loving people of the world.
I can not say it enough, this is unbelievable!!!!
Harmony Central (Score:1)