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The Almighty Buck

Your Qwest Leads To MSN 215

Posted by timothy from the there-is-a-tiny-lawyer-to-the-west dept.
bee writes: "Qwest.net has announced an alliance with MSN that will 'transition' Qwest's dialup and DSL customers to MSN Internet Access. If you're a Macintosh user, you'll be able to continue on Qwest until they figure out what to do with you. Zero mention, of course, is made of Linux or BSD. Here's the FAQ they're pointing their customers to."
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Your Qwest Leads To MSN More

Your Qwest Leads To MSN

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  • Given the crap quality of my qwest access, I welcome MSN. I'd even welcome AOL at this point. For the last several months (long before Code Red) my DSL has been going down 70-90 times EACH DAY (sometimes a lot more) and staying down anywhere from 5 minutes to 5 hours. Qworst tells me there's nothing wrong on their end, and I know nothing has changed on my end.
  • to use MSN if you have QWest DSL. Simply locate an ISP in your area that supports DSL and call the QWest DSL department and request that they be your ISP. It's that simple...
  • Does anyone know of a good DSL-ready ISP for the Minneapolis area? I don't want MSN...
    • Do yourself a favor and jump ship. I just moved to south Mpls and dropped Qwest for Time-Warner. Unlike Qwest, I don't need cable to get broadband. That and my block isn't exactly 'wired'. The bandwith increase is night and day!
      Yes, it is switching from one giant soul-less corp. to another, but for me it's cheaper, faster, and more reliable. That and they hooked it up faster than Qwest has ever done so. (Qwest avg 1-3 months per move! where RoadRunner was a few weeks, and most of the wait was for them to wire the neighboorhood!)
  • I'd much rather be transitioned to MSN than to AOL/Compuserv/Prodigy(!)/etc. I'm not really a big fan of any of the national ISPs.... the ones that are local or operated by the local telco seem to be the best for more people. I wonder how many people will dump qwest as a result of all of this.
  • From the FAQ:

    There are many reasons why you should transition your service:
    • With more than 230 million visitors per month, MSN is available in 33 markets and in 17 languages. (Mom, can I jump off the cliff, too? All the cool kids are doing it.) (More importantly, *any* ISP lets you visit MSN.)
    • Quality, reliability and speed. (Unlike all the other ISPs?)
    • Technical support, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at no charge!
    • (Ditto?)

    • Continue to enjoy POP3 e-mail service, with an option to switch to the world's largest Web-based e-mail service, MSN Hotmail®, via MSN Internet Explorer and get up to nine e-mail screen names for you and the rest of your family. (You can get Hotmail, and hundreds of screen names, from any ISP. But once you transition your MSN e-mail to Web-based, it's difficult or impossible to go back to POP3/SMTP.)
    • Instant messaging from MSN Messenger Service, the fast growing instant messaging service. (Accessible from any ISP.)
    • You get more space for your personal Web site from 5MB to 30MB. (Okay, one real one.)
    • Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better.
      • Catch up on the latest news from MSNBC (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Listen to your favorite music (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Play games (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Send instant messages (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Create an online photo album for your family (Accessible from any ISP, whether or not you use MSN to do it..)
      • Personalize your home page with weather, sports, news or local events (Ditto.)
      • Shop from the convenience of your home (Other ISPs block Amazon.com or something?)
      • Invest your money wisely (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Search for information (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Send online greeting cards (Accessible from any ISP, unfortunately.)-:
      • Plan your vacation (Accessible from any ISP.)
      • Take care of your family's health (Information to help do this is accessible from any ISP, though you're gonna have to get off the darned Internet to do something with it.)
      • And, so much more
    And, I'm so much less impressed.

  • If you're a Macintosh user, you'll be able to continue on Qwest until they figure out what to do with you.

    Trick you into downloading a new and "improved" Internet Explorer with a special hidden feature that periodically makes your box erupt with a "blue screen of death", until you get used to it, then offer a discount on six months of future MSN service if you buy Windows Me on a new box, with the promise that "reliability will be better" (fewer blue screens of death).

    That's what they'll do with you. Mark my words.

  • Eligible Customers:
    Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:
    • Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and,
    • Use the Windows operating system

    • Looks like Linux users stay with Qwest.net. You get to keep your Qwest address, too, not like the Windows users:

      Your Qwest.net e-mail address(es) will be inaccessible 10 days after you successfully transition your service to MSN Internet Access.

  • Is there ANY possibility.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 03, 2001 @04:34AM (#2115405)
    of windows-using Qwest users switching to another provider out of protest?

    I mean, ok, obviously Qwest is happy (or at least satisfied) with throwing out the mac users and the linux users. And clearly the mac and *n?x users are going to have to find something else.

    So, my question to the windows-using qwest people: if things turn out the way it looks like they will, and the mac-using and linux-using populace lose their qwest access, will you consider leaving qwest in protest? Or will it just be, hey, they'll accept MY hardware configuration, i'm ok, it isn't my problem?

    Microsoft's newest tactic is amazing. In addition to their old tactics, they now have the new and amazing trick of buying customers. That's right, can't get a sufficiently high-quality product (or one that seems solid enough) that you can establish a user base through sheer quality of product? That's alright, you can always buy thousands of users from another ISP, or bribe anyone who is willing to develop for the directx apis or the xbox with gobs of money, so that you BUY an existing user base and create some sort of "momentum" for the platform. (Munch's Odysee will be a strong argument for claiming the xbox isn't vapour. It should be; microsoft paid good money to be able to produce the Oddworld Inhabitants as proof that there is, indeed, third-party support for the xbox. Except if you paid them off, can they *really* be called a third-party?)

    Customers are now a commodity, to be bought and sold. Amazing. Customers are now what Labor was 100 years ago. Except this seems somehow .. wierder. Still..

    • No, because... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Friday August 03, 2001 @06:47AM (#2110768)
      I have their Officeworks deal. According to the FAQ that'll still be Qwest. Plus I have static IPs on my Officeworks account. Well that, by it's very nature, means it doesn't matter what OS I use. I have an external Cisco 675 router that actually does all the logon and authentication, then routes everything to my little subnet. The router just talks to my switch and the switch doesn't care what's plugged into it, so long as it speaks eithernet.

      Basically I think the "Windows only" thing is probably only an issue for people with internal Intel DSL routers. Since these things actually sit in a PCI slot, they need drivers and if those drivers are only available for Windows, that's what you have to go with. However when you have an external router, it's different. It has a phone jack on one side, and eithernet on the other. It is actually what talks to the equipment and logs you in and so on, the system behind it has no involvement.

      I'm additonally unwilling to leave Qwest since they seem to be the only ISP willing to work with me on the static IP thing. None of the other ISPs I talked to had a workable deal for static IPs, and some just wouldn't offer them at all.

      At any rate, I'm not staying with their service just ecause it works with my stuff (I also have a Linux server on the network), but rather because they have the best deal right now. If someone else can offer me something equal or better to what Qwest has, I'd consider switching but I'm not going to move to an inferior solution.

      • Did you notice if your static ip + officeworks was any faster using the same speed line? The techs I've been able to talk too either don't know or can't say.
      • Hrm, that's odd. Qwest.net seems to be the *least* available option for getting a static IP around here (won't even do it for a residential- class account), while my local ISP (a Mac/NetBSD shop) says "here, give up $5/month and we'll give you a /29." I'm happy to say qwest.net will not be losing me as a customer 'cos they never had me in the first place. (And as for the actual line, well, just *try* to get selling those off past the regulators short of actually selling off the POTS stuff too.)
    • I mean, ok, obviously Qwest is happy (or at least satisfied) with throwing out the mac users and the linux users. And clearly the mac and *n?x users are going to have to find something else.

      I don't really know if they are as happy to throw us (Linux users) out as you think. I am not saying they are sad to see us go but probably don't really give a rat's ass. I was one of the first people in AZ to order DSL (actually purchase it, not get in on one of the test neighborhoods). The whole reason I ordered it was to host my site from home. At first there was no support for linux (publically - sp?) and you could not order static IPs but that (static IPs) changed when they started up Office works (specifically setup for users running servers). Sure Linux was not publically supported but I don't know how many times I called up and the guy at the other end was a Unix/Linux user also and hepled me anyway. Sometimes they even sent me to thier 2nd level support if they couldn't help. As for the something else... yes it may cost more but Qwest is still keepig its office works customers (for now at least) so it looks like another reason for me to bring my site back (I currently do not have the office works plan).
    • If I could get a static IP address via DSL, I would care not who wants to put their name on the front of the ISP. Alas, they did not run enough copper in my area -- thank god for cable modems.
    • People buy customers EVERY DAY. Look at the entire ISP market over the last 5 or more years. How do you think big ISPs got to be big ISPs? People didn't join them by the millions (except for maybe AOL), they bought smaller ISPs over and over.

      Is it a bad thing? I think not. If you don't like it switch.
  • Does anyone really use the "start page" of their ISP?

    Okay fine, my mother probably does... and maybe my grandmother... but so what? Great, when you log on, you have to look at the first screen of MSN.com.

    and some things about those Jupiter ratings about visitors to MSN.com and related properties: the most recent TheStandard had an article breaking down the top sites (by visitors) in about 20 or 30 different countries and began making the story about how it seemed that with Passport, Hotmail, MSN.com, MSNBC, etc., it seemed that Microsoft was building an online media conglomerate with more unique visitors that Yahoo, AOL, etc.

    What it turned out to be was a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Every time a windows user types in a bad domain or url, they get that auto-search redirect page (counts as a hit/visitor). When they log out of hotmail, their redirected to passport.com (another visitor to passport). And they found that a large number of users have never even changed their start page from the factory installed (microsoft) one.

    Smoke and mirrors.

    What this press release about Qwest and MSN says is very little except "lets get more newbies to go to our page first"

  • seriously, (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    After Gringly's last article, I see no way out of a MS dominated world. Or at least USA. I honestly feel like ditching all my UNIX experience and Java and C skills and going Visual Studio + .NET + C#

    Its so sad, here in DFW I know lots of UNIX/Java/C/C++ guys out of work while VB/access bitches are still employed and making 70-100k. Seriously, not a troll. Its getting depressing. I have even seen manager ads that specify past project management experience on MS based projects.

    Anybody offer any hope?
    • you probably don't wanna move but here in england java programmers are very much in demand (or at least were when i was looking for a job a few months ago) ... java java java, unfortunately for me the only java i know is the lovely island ;)
    • Anybody offer any hope?
      Just get out of the way while we introduce these exciting NEW products!
      • Microsoft Outlook for *NIX (and developer SDK!)
      • New MCMBABCE (MS Mailbox Address Book Extentions Certified Engineer) certification.
      • VisualBasic Perl Interpreter for ASP
      I feel so embraced and extended...
      • Just get out of the way while we introduce these exciting NEW products!

        <snip!>
        VisualBasic Perl Interpreter for ASP

        LOL, but just for information, here [microsoft.com]'s a page from MSDN (dated Aug 1999) about the perl interpreter for ASP, since you mention it.

        TomV

        • FYI: ActiveState [slashdot.org] has an excellent set of Perl [activestate.com], Python [activestate.com] and Tcl [activestate.com] Win32/ASP packages available for free from their site.

          When we moved from Solaris/Apache to Win2K/IIS, I moved all our old Perl/CGI stuff straight over without a hitch (although I did have to redo the sendmail stuff to use CDO).

      • Embraced (by the Iron Maiden) and extended (by the rack).

  • Q: Is there a phone number I can call with questions regarding changes in my service?

    A: For more information about MSN Internet Access services or questions about your service, please contact the Qwest® Sales and Service Office by calling 1-800-244-1111.


    I don't know, I just thought that was funny, for more information on MSN, just call Qwest... seems like they're giving people the runaround before they even call...
  • Having watched Earthlink do the same thing with Sprint, and about 6 local ISP's I can say that the customer support will probably be worst, but at least the browsing will be slower. Poor bastards. You don't have to use them. Support a local ISP, sure its Qwest's DSLAM at the CO but you don't have to use them as your ISP. bah I'm preaching to the ...
  • If Qwest wants to "transition" me and my Linux box to MSN, I'm gonna "transition" straight to another ISP.

    Any recommendations for a good, independent dialup ISP in the Denver metro area that's reliable, doesn't limit your hours, is about $20/month, and doesn't give a rat's ass what OS you choose to run? Basically, I'd like to find the Denver equivalent of Santa Barbara's Silicon Beach [silcom.com].

    (I wish we could do DSL or cable modem, but we're too far from the switch for DSL, and, as for cable modems, our apartment complex uses this company called Optel (not AT&T like most of the metro area), and they don't offer that service. Sprint's Broadband Direct service would also be cool, I just don't think we'd get permission from the apartment managers to put up the antenna.)

    Eric

  • As stated in the FAQ, the criteria for being "eligible" to be moved to MSN:

    Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:

    * Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and,
    * Use the Windows operating system.

    MAC Customers: MSN is working on a MAC solution for your Internet access needs. Until that time, there will not be any changes to your Qwest.net Internet Access service.

    Now, if this truly was ignorant of anyone not using a Mac or Windows box, then the second * would not have been posted, they'd have just told Mac users to hold on while Microsoft figures out how to best punish - er, service them. But Quest explicitly states this is for Windows users only. From what I see here, it's obvious that they recognize not everyone is either a Mac or Windows user.

  • "Zero mention, of course, is made of Linux or BSD."

    Actually I beg to differ, check this out from the small print at the bottom....

    "MSN Broadband Internet Access is available only to users of the Windows® 98 or later operating systems"

    Somehow I don't think they are considering 2.4 a 'later operating system'

  • I live in sticks in Qwest country, so rather than pathetic analog dialup, we have slightly less pathetic ISDN dialup (40k feet -- yes, 7 1/2 miles -- to our Central Office) with Qwest.net. Funny, no mention of our disposition... I guess they must've forgotten they provide ISDN dialup for homes!
  • We already heard this here [slashdot.org].

  • I am not worried about it. Why? Two reasons:

    1. I have an external Cisco DSL router, which my Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris boxes are happily connecting through.

    2. I have the ability to choose what ISP I want. I DO NOT have to use MSN. There are several local outfits that would be happy to provide ISP services through my Qwest DSL line.

    BTW, it's not like Qwest service was good to begin with. Oh, I have to switch my email address? Oh the horror! Whatever shall I do? Well, considering I have a yahoo account, not much.

  • This doesn't mean that MSN will be running the line, Qwest still does that. Maybe this is just in Minnesota, but with Qwest DSL we have a choice (and a pretty wide range) of ISP, and a lot of local ISP's compete pretty well for price and services. I had DSL in my old apartment and we used a local ISP because their prices for static IPs were a lot less. I would imagine that this factor will leave a lot of the Linux/BSD users with fewer worries, as MSN will probably not be offering static IPs anyway.

  • What I see in this article is that Qwest is jumping out of the 'consumer' business, like more and more ISPs are doing.

    My ISP provides me ADSL access. They stopped marketing their end-user products and focused their business on corporate and enterprise solutions, basically because it's become too expensive to keep supporting the many home users that keep leeching and trading movies and the likes.

    I can see either one of two reasons here:
    - What we pay for internet these days is really below the real cost for our ISPs, while punching each other in the face with lower prices to get the most customers.
    - What the Big Backbone Boys (carriers, telcos, ...) are charging is way more than they should.

    Can anyone else see a trend here?
  • I am more and more glad I turned to Speakeasy Network. They are Linux/BSD/Mac friendly and they have done me right from day one.

    DanH

  • Not that I really care, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Enigma23 ( 460910 ) on Friday August 03, 2001 @04:15AM (#2134156)
    There is something I have to ask of those people who use MSN.

    Why do you use it? I'll admit that I use it occasionally, but only in order to keep in contact with friends via MSN messenger (i'm trying to persuade them to get ICQ instead). Given the, shall we say, twtchiness of MSN in the last few weeks, I'll be surprised if the number of people using MSN hasn't plummeted due to the spectacular lack of customer service that they have exhibited in recent, and less recent, times.

    Given the inherent problems that have been flagged up with regards to Microsoft and MSN in the last few weeks, months, years and decades, I personally have very little Faith in their much-touted security features (or should that be bugs?) in MSN.

    • Personally, I know a few people and have seen a lot of people sign up for MSN when they bought new computers. Seems like a lot of people who bought new computers took advantage of that "sign up with MSN for 3 years, and take $400 off your computer purchase today" offer. That deal helped a lot of people get a computer in their home. Now everyone's locked into a 3, 2, or 1 year contract with them. Sucks, I know.
    • Why do you use it?

      My mom uses MSN for dial-up because her Dell computer came with 12 months of MSN. (Now Dells come with 6 months of MSN.) As another poster said, click "Connect to the Internet," and you get the MSN home page.

      Funny thing is, you can still use MSN (the Web site) with any dial-up ISP. We'll see how Mom feels about transitioning (say, to a $15/month account, instead of paying $22/month for MSN) when the year's up.

      P.S.: Yes, I know, it's not free, it's included in the price of the computer.

    • Re:Not that I really care, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by celerity02 ( 256071 ) on Friday August 03, 2001 @05:00AM (#2147406)
      Think of it this way. You're a new computer user. You want to check out this thing called 'the Internet'. So you boot up your brand new out of the box computer and see an icon for MSN that gets you "connected to the Internet".

      What do you think you'd use? It'd be easiest to just click on that link and follow the instructions. Other ISPs? What's an ISP?

      Same reason AOL's going for the link on the desktop sales slant. Newbies will eat it up. They don't care if the connection is crap. It's what they're comfortable with doing. And that's probably all that's really going to matter to them.
      • I work for a mid-sized ISP [velocitusinternet.net] that has been affected greatly by recent ISP transitions. Micron.net/HostPro.net recently sold all its dial-up customers to Earthlink and several thousand of them have switched to my ISP. Most of them said they did not want to switch to such a bloated problematic ISP like Earthlink.

        (Honestly, I think many of them decided to switch after waiting on hold for over an hour for technical support -- our average hold time is under three minutes...)

        While many of our customers are still coming from AOL and are not ready for a normal internet connection, it actually seems that computer users are beginning to understand why large ISPs are getting such a bad name. Today, the average dial-up customer is much more likely to switch ISPs because of poor service than in the past.

        Hopefully this trend continues. If I wanted to be an MSN customer I would have signed up with them...

        (Despite my e-mail address, Qwest is no longer my ISP)

  • So does anyone else get the feeling that this is going to slowly lock out all non-Windows users (yeah, we'll update you Mac users, um, later. Linux? What's that?)? And if it does so, then would this be another case for the DoJ?
    • As far as I could tell from the article, it didn't seem to affect your current "IP service" just your "homepage package" sort of thing. It doesn't seem to be affecting any part of your IP service, therefore if you never used your qwest.net e-mail, etc.. services, this MSN bull won't really affect you at all.
      • Wait; I get it now! What they really need is some sort of system that they can roll out to all the users to get them using their services. Something that'll run on every major platform. But what? Yes, Java!

        Oh, wait a sec.....

  • Zero mention, of course, is made of Linux or BSD

    for dialup, you simply change your loginname to MSN\loginnanme and you can use dialup.
  • Hi, I'm currently a Qwest employee and DSL customer I agree that the Transition FAQ looks fairly scary for *nix users but that's just the public image. I have talked to nearly every level of DSL management in my building and Nothing is changing for Linux users. You can still use the same equip and get the same access while keeping the same address (unlike windows users who go to @msn addys). True you do have to use a Cisco 675 but you have to anyway because of the lacking drivers for the Intel modems in Linux... Everything remains the same... Just Relax!
    ~Cory
  • After much searching I found this: ISP's connected to Qwest.com [qwest.com]

    Even ISP Reports [dslreports.com] (A DSL rating site) did not have a easy way to find all the ISP's connected to Qwest easily. So still have to visit them and do some more research *sigh*

  • Being a Qwest.net customer, I'm in a really good position to comment on this (and you'd better believe I did my research when I heard about it!)

    First off: The change only affects those customers who:

    (1) Use analog dialup.
    (2) Use residential DSL.
    (3) Use any sort of Qwest.net web-based E-mail interface.

    The change DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IF:

    (1) You are a subscriber to Qwest.net's OfficeWorks or OfficeWorksLAN package.

    (2) You are a subscriber to Qwest.net's DSLPro, DSL256, DSLDeluxe, or BrowseNow services.

    In my case, I'm fully self-hosted. I run my own DNS, web, mail, FTP and (soon) caching NNTP servers. My Qwest DSL connection and static IP block is nothing more than a pipeline to the 'net at large. I have double-checked with the Qwest business office: The change will not affect me, or anyone else who is also self-hosted on a Qwest DSL line.

    So, in summary: The only folks who have anything to worry about (and with MSN, there's PLENTY to worry about!) are the pure dialup and cheap DSL subscribers.

    My deepest sympathies go out to them, and I would like to offer a brief list of alternative ISPs in the Puget Sound region that would probably be a heck of a lot better choice than anything the Redmond Empire can turn out.

    http://www.blarg.net

    http://www.drizzle.com (Heard good things, no direct experience with them).

    http://www.kendra.com (Excellent reviews from some of my fellow Boeing employees).

    For a full list of Puget Sound area ISP's, try this link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/technology/h tml98/isp_chart_030198.html

    Good luck, and God help us all...

  • .NET (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tstock ( 213857 )
    It only makes sense. MSN will probably play a large part in promoting .NET to the public and Qwest owns alot of dark fiber which can't hurt either.

    Microsoft needs strong platforms from which to be a "leader" in the Internet. browser, media players, .NET and MSN should all compliment each other quite nicely...

  • Better you than me (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mcleodnine ( 141832 )

    Too bad, so sad. So I trust that the qwest subscribers will have to click-through the new privacy agreements with MSN. Or will they just be bound to it by the transition gods? Mmmmm. Yummy Passport. Tastes great, but leaves a greasy stain on your soul.

    So will the DoJ wait until after MS owns the entire North American ISP business or just the top 10%?

    • I'd be packing up and running for the hills with the MSN agreement. As if passport's privacy isn't bad enough for email. Soon M$ will own not only anything you send and receive through email, but anything you send or receive over their connections.

      Someone set up us a Qwest.
      All your packets are belong to us!

  • I can only dream... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Racher ( 34432 )
    I can only dream of the days when regular people wake up out of their dreams that what they are being told is good for them, is actually good for them. They public doesn't care about Dimitry, the DMCA, hard drive copy protection, getting switched to MSN, having their government lie to them constantly, being lead by elected followers with records of drug abuse, sexual affairs. Why doesn't the world see what it is doing? Do people really go around believing there is a god? They don't care if IE in integrated with windows, it could be linked into their brain, if the majority tells them it's good for them they would do it.

    Well what happens when the majority is wrong?

    I can't believe the things people do on a day to day basis, I can't believe that as a race of supposedly sentient beings, we live this way. The drugs, the sex, the violence, the dominating government, the dominating companies. We allow this to happen, we live out our little lives only caring about what is good for us in the short term. Well what is supposedly good for you is not good for you! Most slashdotter's seem to realize this fact because they are sometimes doing something about this messed up system we live in. Most everyone in this world is 'The Man's bitch... They take whatever he want's to shove down their throat. Why can't our world be focused on art and science and the developement of mankind. Why does it have to be the circus that it is.

    Personally I am working to help out the world as much as I can in my present state. I am putting myself through college working in a job that produces scientific information that can help our understanding of the universe. My income can is refered to as sub-poverty by the government. But I personally am living quite richly because of my wise choices. I am surrounded by several other students who are being put through college by their parents, who have no job and constantly bitch about their life.

    I simply wish I lived in a world full of thinkers and leaders, not a world full of ignorant followers.

    If you know of a place, please let me know. Please...
  • In all the anger and frustration over mergers of this sort, one must not forget the increased workload that will befell the helpdesk technicians at these companies. An ISP I worked at got bought out by another local ISP and we had one hell of a time transitioning our puny 1500 person client base. While people may be angry, remember, technicians are humans too and this is gonna suck for them (the lucky ones who keep there jobs).
    - Hyperbolix
  • While I was travelling the last couple years I needed(wanted?) internet access most everywhere I went. The only real choice(AOL is not a choice) was to go with MSN. I ran Redhat 5.1 on a Toshiba laptop, and travelled all 42 states, Canada, Mexico, and visited all the others online. I worked fine after a little setup help from a knowledgeable fellow at MSN.

  • This is anti-Microsoft FUD.. (Score:3, Troll)

    by Bowie J. Poag ( 16898 ) on Friday August 03, 2001 @04:57AM (#2147428) Homepage


    I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but this "article" is pure FUD. It incinuates that all of Qwest's DSL customers (of which I am one..) are going to be forced to switch to MSN, which is total BS. To quote from the FAQ itself:


    "Under the agreement, MSN will become the preferred Internet Service Provider (ISP) for some Qwest.net Consumer Internet Access customers."

    So what if MSN becomes the "preferred ISP"? And beyond that, its only going to apply to some customers, not all.

    Qwest is moving its "Qwest.net" customers to MSN. Thats right, there is a difference between Qwest and Qwest.net -- Qwest.net is Qwest's unprofitable, lousy internet provider service. Qwest provides you with a DSL circuit. Who you choose to have as your ISP is totally up to you. You can rely upon Qwest for that additionally, and become a subscriber to "Qwest.net"..You don't have to.

    Beyond all this, if you have another ISP that youve chosen to do business with, such as a local ISP in your home town, Qwest does not have the legal authority to render the contract between you and your ISP null and void. Its only "Qwest.net" subscribers that have to "worry" about anything. I dont subscribe to "Qwest.net", so I don't have to worry about a thing. I use DakotaCom [dakotacom.net] here in Tucson as my ISP, therefore it doesn't affect me.

    This entire post should be modded down to -1 Troll.

    • Listen bonehead, I wrote the article, and I have four words for you: Read The Fucking Article.

      Notice how the Very First Word is 'Qwest.net'. Therefore, anyone with a couple of neurons to rub together would realize what this applies to. Then notice how the FAQ uses Qwest and Qwest.net pretty much interchangeably. Hmm, gee, I'm not confusing the two any more than Qwest does themselves.

      The rest of this article is ranting based on this false premise. And it even got moderated up to 5, how sad. Good moderator points wasted on someone who posts goatse.cx links [slashdot.org] in their articles. Check that article out, apparently it got all the way to +4 before being slapped down like the troll it is.
    • So what if MSN becomes the "preferred ISP"?

      My mom uses dialup MSN. They've intercepted the "launch a connection to the Internet" action, so the only way you can get online is to run the MSN home page thingie (the AOL-ish screen that's a seriously DHTML'ed IE). Want a PPP connection to run just your favorite TCP/IP apps over, not your ISP's favorite app? Tough luck.

      And beyond that, its only going to apply to some customers, not all.

      "If you use a PC with the Windows operating system (rather than a Macintosh), between August 7, 2001 and August 24, 2001 an e-mail message will be sent to eligible customers [anyone who runs Windows and uses dial-up or DSL from Qwest.net]. The e-mail will provide a link to the transition Web site. Once you transition to MSN, your Qwest.net account services will be inaccessible 10 days after you successfully transition your service to MSN Internet Access.

      Beginning November 4, 2001, eligible Qwest.net Internet Access customers who have not transitioned their account will automatically be transitioned to MSN."

      "Some customers" means "any customers who don't immediately lie and say they own Macs"?-)

      Beyond all this, if you have another ISP that youve chosen to do business with, such as a local ISP in your home town, Qwest does not have the legal authority to render the contract between you and your ISP null and void. Its only "Qwest.net" subscribers that have to "worry" about anything.

      So all you have to do is change ISPs, change your e-mail address, and hope (dial-up) you can still get a local POP or (DSL) go through the whole DSL Installation Hell routine ("No, it's not our fault, it's their fault") again? How reassuring.

      They came first for the Qwest.net customers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Qwest.net customer. Then they came for the DakotaCom customers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a DakotaCom customer.... Then they came for me, and by that time, was no one left to speak up. (Sorry, trivialization of a Holocaust-related quote ... but no intentional triggering of Godwin's Law.-)

  • interesting move (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The fine print of the FAQ states that only win98
    and above users can acces msn dsl. I wonder how
    this will affect the relatively large userbase that
    Qwest has? This has to be very upsetting to alot of
    their users in general though.
    • "This has to be very upsetting to alot of their users in general though"

      Yeah, but what will be more upsetting to them.... the fact that "only win98 and above users can acces msn dsl" or the fact that Qwest dial-up and DSL customers will be "transitioned" to MSN Internet Access?

    • Lie. Tell them you are using a Mac. Find another ISP.
    • I think that the FAQ is intended to show what MSN will support. Qwest DSL uses the Intel 2100/2200/3200 DSL internal 'modems' and the Cisco 675/678 almost exclusively.

      For customers with the Intel modems, you never could connect with non-MS operating systems anyway (correct me if I'm wrong, however). With the Cisco modems you could connect fine with just about any operating system. I had no problems getting Suse to run DHCP with my Cisco 675.

      I can't imagine Microsoft forcing the the established DSL customers to buy new equipment. For existing Qwest.net customers with Cisco routers, I'd imagine you would still be able to connect as you were before.

  • Just another quote (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 03, 2001 @04:20AM (#2147456)
    Qwest® and MSN are working hard to deliver great narrowband and Qwest DSL(TM) services to all customers.

    When will they stop twisting the jargon!? "Narrowband"? The opposite of broadband is baseband, as in 10Base(band)T. Broadband does not mean "Big fat and fast line to the internet", but rather a single data cable that carries more than one type of a signal. Your CATV line is broadband because it can carry network data AND your usual TV channels. DSL (at least ADSL) is broadband because it can carry your phone (voice and low-frequency sound-based data) signals and your network connection. Ethernet is NOT broadband, even though it's faster than DSL, because it can only carry data signals... unless you happen to be one of those that happens to be using a very unusual kind of ethernet that was hardly implemented... I think it was called 10Broad36, and ran over 75 Ohm Coaxial. (aka, coaxial TV cable.)

    • And when will they stop saying "you will be transitioned" when they mean "you will make the transition".
    • Actually, what I learned in broadband networks course (about ATM and SDH, mostly), the definition of broadband was "anything above T1/E1". In effect, anything above 1,54M or 2M, because that's the highest speed available to the end user on "traditional" (PDH) systems. There was also something about N-ISDN and B-ISDN, but "narrowband" IS a legitimate term and means T1/E1 and everything below. Baseband is a term used in signal processing, and it's opposite is a modulated signal, ie. baseband is the information signal itself, and it's trasmitted, but with a modulation it's raised to a carrier. A standard composite video signal is baseband. An RF signal that you get to your TV is exactly the same signal, but its modulated to TV frequencies (VHF/UHF).
    • The opposite of broadband is baseband

      You are half right... baseband is an unmodulated signal as opposed to IF (Intermediate Frequency) or the final Transmission Frequency. Sometimes the IF stage is left out like in Home Stereo FM radio.

      Narrowband and Broadband (or wideband) deal with the amount of baseband data that is being modulated to the carrier frequency. Narrowband is a single channel of data and broadband is multiple channels of data, and thus oposites.
    • Yes. To be more accurate, baseband is called so because the "base" signal is transmitted, that is, the signal that's generated is the one that is transmitted. In broadband, there are multiple signals being transmitted - however, each one has been transformed, so as to occupy a unique "band".

      • Re:Just another quote (Score:3, Informative)

        by unitron ( 5733 )
        Baseband means whatever bandwidth it uses isn't heterodyned up to one of the many "channels" (of whatever bandwidth) stacked one on top of the other in the broadband medium the way that radio and TV signals share the airwaves or cable. In other words if the baseband signal varies between (plucks figure out of thin air or other location) 0 Hz to 3kHz, then it gets received as a 0 to 3kHz signal instead of a 50kHz to 53kHz signal that has to be shifted back down by a local oscillator or detector.

  • Quote time! YAY! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Vice_hkpnx ( 303236 ) on Friday August 03, 2001 @04:06AM (#2147461)
    Here's my personal fave:

    "Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better."

    Maybe that's why i'm depressed all the time. No MSN.
    • Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better.

      Anyone else put in mind of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation? (RIP Douglas)

      • Anyone else put in mind of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation? (RIP Douglas)

        My favorite is page 719 of The Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide. (can also be found in Mostly Harmless, but don't know which page) The Great Telephone and Ventilation Riots of SrDr 3454. Douglas' narration of the Breathe-O-Smart system is hysterical, and describes Microsoft to a T.
      • Well, let's hope MSN will be first up against the wall when the revolution finally comes ;)
    • Wait until you start using MSN. You'll be so happy, you'll be leaping from windows. Or is that leaping from Windows? Hmmm...
    • Apatently Qwest.net users got screwed when it came to service agreements. Make damn sure you know what you're getting into in this area? How is it that MSN is able to provide less services ie: questionable web publishing, unreliable email service in a non-dedicated enviroment and so fourth. Don't these users have a service agreement they can fall back on to at least compel MSN to provide EXACTLY the same service they were recieving from Qwest until the termination of that contract term...? (not being a Qwest customer I don't know)

    • Re:Quote time! YAY! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Enigma23 ( 460910 )
      I've noticed how sucky this will be for Qwest users. Such gems include:

      1) Not being able to keep your own Qwest email address, but having to "transition" (great word that) your address over to MSN Hotmail. Oh, joy!

      2) Only being able to transfer over your primary Qwest email address, but "secondary accounts will not be transitioned." But hey, you'll get to "create up to nine e-mail screen names for you and the rest your family" instead of having them "transitioned"...

      3) To quote the FAQ "Qwest.net account services will be inaccessible 10 days after you successfully transition your service to MSN Internet Access." That's nice of them isn't it?

      4) As icing on the cake, "Since Web Publishing will no longer be available after the 10 day grace period, you should make sure you have a local copy of your Web page(s)." I'm loving MSN more and more as I read through this...

      Are We All Having Fun Yet? No, I didn't think so.

  • On the one hand they encourage sites to use non-standard tags VB script etc. so pages don't work properly on non-MS platforms. On the other they're buying the access, again forcing people to migrate to MS products if they want service. Mac, and Linux and other users are stuffed...

  • I do tech support for MSN... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 03, 2001 @04:44AM (#2147681)
    ... and using linux, or any other PPP capable device on it is not hard... You do not need to use the software at all, the username just needs to be prefixed with MSN/ and you need the, easily accessable DNS server IP's which tech support would give you in a heartbeat.
    • Yep. this guy's exactly right. MSN is just another ISP...most of their suburban lines are sub-let through national chains. They're *almost* a virtual ISP.
      I have a lil P200 (fine, yes, it's running Linux) that acts as a dialer and dhcp server, and all I have to do is use "MSN/username" in the dialing script. Works like a charm.
      Nary a butterfly to be found.
    • I was doing just that for about 8 months on both Windows and Linux. Never had a single problem with it. Damn people make things out to be so hard!
  • Although some people say that people shouldn't use MSN because it's from "The Evil Empire," MSN is actually a very reliable and fast service. I don't hesitate to recommend people to MSN because it seems like they have a very large infrastructure with very little users. On top of that, although you can use the special MSN dialer, you can also log into MSN using a normal dial-up connection (your login because MSN/username or something like that). In addition, MSN is probably one of the only large ISPs that allows you to use a special modem to dial up with two lines in order to double your throughput. They also support ISDN and whatnot. Don't knock it until you try it!

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