Possible Crusoe and Recall? 117
vadim writes "Crusoe may have a bug as reported on yahoo."
Not much there except that NEC is considering a recall because of a "Chip Failure-Paper" (huh?). It doesn't say what the problem is, but it mentions that Sony has also started looking into it.
it's not a "failure-paper" (Score:4)
Try reading it like this:
"NEC mulls PC recall, citing chip failure - paper reports."
over-hyped chipmaker gets corrected (Score:1)
This is just one of many cluex4's investors will probably be getting in the near future as they slowly realize that you don't rush into the market with something as complex as a CPU and save the world from [Evil Empire] without a few stumbles along the way.
Uh... Transmeta? (Score:3)
Think of this like golf, a higher number is not your friend. :-)
Re:But... (Score:2)
Re:TROLL TUESDAY (Score:1)
Re:And why should anyone be surprised? (Score:1)
sounds like an Intel emulation problem (Score:1)
Re:And why should anyone be surprised? (Score:1)
Consider a few things - Transmeta's Crusoe chip is a new product, rushed to market in an amazingly small time frame
Yeah.. that must be because they have that technology that would take competitors YEARS to create... while neglecting to mention that transmeta hasn't even been around that longRe:slow reaction time (Score:1)
Re:Crusoe 1.1 (Score:1)
Received Via Heuters (Score:3)
Slashdot Hive-mind rejects legitimate satire
SLASHDOT LAND, Nov 29(Heuters) Moderators on the popular internet news site Slashdot [slashdot.org], owned by VALinux and heavily invested in all things Linux, were shocked by an earlier Heuters Wire Release [slashdot.org] implying that something Linus Torvalds did was anything other than "divine perfection", as one slashdot reader commented.
Various heads of nations and multinational corporations found news of Slashdot Drones turning insane with rage at the slightest hint of anti-Linus humor somewhat un-newsworthy.
Heuters stock plunged 5.062 points in after-hours trading, losing nearly 20% of its value and becoming nearly worthless.
Re:Possible pr1st fs0t? (Score:2)
Recall (Score:2)
Re:Excuse Me ... (Score:1)
1) Transmeta operates the same way as Sun does, i.e. it designs its chips but does not build them itself. They are built by the company with a bit of relevant experience (called IBM
2) Who cares about 15 years of x86 crap^H^H^H^Hlegacy; a processor core lives about 4 to 5 years, so it clearly shows how much time is necessary to develop, test and bring to market any new (processor) architecture.
Re:Not unexpected (Score:1)
Re:Intel Flexing It's Muscle? (Score:2)
Re:Battery life is ALL that matters (Score:1)
Battery life is ALL that matters (Score:2)
Assuming most laptops can manage two hours battery time, do we really need that much more?
YES.
In my household the laptops are *off* the ac power most of the time. We are a fully enabled 802.11 (Aiport / wireless ethernet) house. We surf/email from everywhere, including the bathroom, the back porch, and the neighbors lawn. Our aging Fujitsu, with under 2 hrs of battery, seems like a piece of crap next to the 4 hr+ battery time we get from the Powerbook.
As computing go wireless, battery life is the most important spec.
haven't you read Dilbert? (Score:1)
And why should anyone be surprised? (Score:5)
Intel, AMD and Motorola have been making microprocessors for a very, very long time... Why anyone should be surprised that a Johnny-come-lately has skinned their knee the first time down the block is beyond me.
One other thing - One of the first things people look at when choosing a laptop, at least the die-hard geeks, is the relative power the unit has compared to their desktop. It's not uncommon to purchase laptops with 128+ megs of RAM, P3600 or faster processors, DVD players, 15" displays that are sharp as a CRT, 8 gig hard drives or larger - Point being, MOST people are off the AC juice just a few minutes at a time; they are writing notes in an airport lobby. Assuming most laptops can manage two hours battery time, do we really need that much more? All you NEED to do word processing and check email is a 486, if we put an 18 micron 486 in a laptop with today's technology, you'd get what, five hours?
Received Via Heuters (Score:1)
Transmeta "Shifts Focus" to fashion accessories
NEW YORK, Nov 29 (Heuters) Upstart chipmaker Transmeta Corp. (NasdaqNM:TMTA - news [yahoo.com]) have just announced a shocking "Shifting of Focus" in their business in the near future. Says market analyst Skip Finkleman of International Investment Associates (NasdaqNM: IIAZ - news [yahoo.com]), "The unique approach of using recalled chips as fashionable jewelry has caught both the high tech and fashion worlds by storm. Expect to see Crusoe necklaces. earrings, bracelets, and even transdermal implants by Q2 2001."
Linus Torvalds, involved with the Transmeta venture from early on, urges Linux supporters to purchase Transmeta jewelry as soon as it becomes available. "We hope that the Open Source Community(tm) will support our move into wearable computers as whole heartedly as ever, even if it didn't come in the form we expected."
That "uebercrappy" Yahoo! will face a reckoning... (Score:2)
Jealous of the success of Linus Torvalds and our tribe they are trying to reinstitute the Cathedral through the only means at their disposal -- main force.
Well, I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more. Sony and NEC have had their chance to join the cluetrain. But they have ignored it, and us, for far too long.
I hearby call ONE AND ALL for a BOYCOTT of all Sony products!
It will be hard, but we must resist the corporate powers of Intellectual Property and Darkness!!
(Exceptions may be made for certain Sony products, such as Aibo, anime DVDs, Vaio laptops, movies with neat-o special effects, and so on.)
You may ask, why no boycott of Yahoo!? Well, unfortunately they have no products, and hence are untouchable by anyone save the Government itself.
Re:And why should anyone be surprised? (Score:2)
DOS EDIT runs fine on an 8086. I'm sure vi would work just as well. Markup like the old WordPerfect? 286 is just dandy. Antialiased-WYSIWYG, with multiple fonts, spelling and grammar checker, plus integrated graphics? I don't think a 486 will cut it. Add speech-to-text (Dragon NS) and suddenly the motto "a 486 is good enough for word processing" is obviously uninformed.
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Not Entirely true ©©© (Score:3)
Re:Not unexpected (Score:2)
this. Small IPOs with all their eggs in one basket can find
this...unsettling.
Re:More info...(and funny too!) (Score:1)
To something wrong it, and the recall NEC
The possibility that something wrong is caused in the product partially of CPU (central operation processor)"Crusoe" made by the US transformer meta company installed by the notebook-sized personal computer turned out, NEC clarified a part of the notebook-sized personal computer of the type equipped with Crusoe on the 29th, and it was clarified that the examination had started in the direction where it was a recall (collection and gratuitous repair). Sony which sold the notebook-sized personal computer which handled same Crusoe also started the investigation of the realities.
It was confirmed not to be able to reinstall basic software (OS) partially of the notebook-sized personal computer for the individual who had put it on the market in October because of Crusoe's defective operation according to NEC. It is said as foresight by which [it] stays in several thousand parts which have already been sold to seem to become the object of the collection.
For Crusoe, [it] is developed in rivalry with CPU of Intel Corp. which boasts of an overwhelming share, and low power consumption is a sales thing.
(November 30th 01:47)
Re:possible CmdrTaco and illiterate? (Score:2)
Young citizen, this is humorous!
Re:Recall lawsuit fears? (Score:3)
I do think your statement is right in a sense. We see more recalls, and a public recall is often preferable to the cost and bad pr of a lawsuit. At the same time, I think there's a lot more really shoddy products out there than ever before. The statement "They don't make em like they used to" has a lot of truth in it.
Re:Crusoe 1.1 (Score:2)
since so much of the chip is in software, maybe they could correct it by modifying the chip's firmware...
More Info? (Score:1)
.technomancer
Re:Crusoe 1.1 (Score:1)
and from what i've heard transmeta is supposed to be issuing new micro code patches that can be flash upgraded to the first series right?
Re:Perhaps the most frightening statement is: (Score:1)
Do not use 'neither' with three or more things.
FP.
(F*cking Pedant)
No Need To Panic (Score:4)
Re:TROLL TUESDAY (Score:1)
Too bad it's Wednesday and your alliteration no longer works.
Fixing hardware. (Score:2)
Actually, this is exactly what the Microprocessor Update feature of the current Pentium's is all about. Intel releases firmware updates as binary files that can be loaded into the processors firmware memory and can fix processor errata. Sorry, Intel won't tell you what the firmware instruction format is and they also encrypt the update files that they release so you can't change the instruction set willy nilly but this is a nifty way of correcting processor mistakes.
--
Don Dugger
VA Linux Systems
Like a car recall... (Score:3)
Virtually all of the Crusoe functionality seems to be driven by software in flash rom (IIRC), so almost any problem should be fixable by simply flashing or replacing the rom chip.
If this were an old Intel CPU (FDIV bug, etc.) then you *would* be looking at replacing hardware.
Sounds like it might be a good time to pick up some TMTA
G.
Re:Recall (Score:2)
Re:Ok, someone clue me in (Score:1)
Umm they pay you a few cents and hour, if that and you have to be activly surfing. Lets break down the math.
Alladvantage, one of the most popular pays 20 cents an hour.
Max 720 hours in a month. A horribly addicted surfer may surf 12 hours a day = 360 hours
lets say you get paid 20 cents an hour that is 72 dollars a month for being on the web all of your waking hours for an entire month. BTW you can earn that amount of money giving plasma three times, which is much less painful than halving to deal with a supid ad bar on your screen constantly.
Average surfer is generally on the web activly surfing maay 5 hours a day = 30.00 seems like good money but I repeat having to have a stupid ad bar blocking a large amount of your screen all the time simply isn't worth it.
Summiting at +1,, hey I got karma to burn!
Oh mi god?! arg, no... (Score:1)
FUD or bug
FUD or bug
it matters not at all
for if be FUD,
the fear will kill
and if be bug,
the code "be broke"
and either way
the stock shall fall and fall
Re:And why should anyone be surprised? (Score:2)
There is a real advantage to a laptop that can run on batteries during a transcontinental flight (and not just for watching DVDs). And although I agree that a 486 should be just fine for word-processing, the folks in Redmond (and Santa Clara) have had different ideas; I'd hate to use Office 2000 on such a unit.
Long battery life doesn't have much geek value, but for many of the folks who buy new laptops it may be the most important thing.
Re:Recall lawsuit fears? (Score:1)
Surprise.... (Score:1)
It makes me puke.
L*n*s, get out of the f*cking kitchen, asshole!
Re:C'mon guys. (Score:1)
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=TMTA&d=1d
They haven't recovered significantly, as usually is the case if it's only a rumour.
Outlook not good for Transmetta (Score:2)
Could this company be under any more fire. Frankly I dont think that the code emulation is all that great and I am not sure on just how well the low the low power Crusoe will be. Why haven't they released a bunch of specs and benchmarks if their product is so good.
Everyone say bye bye to Transmetta
Recall lawsuit fears? (Score:1)
just a thoguht.
Excuse Me ... (Score:1)
It means that it is not THAT new.
- Paper (Score:3)
Crusoe 1.1 (Score:2)
Re:Received Via Heuters (Score:1)
Ouch... (Score:1)
Re:it's not a "failure-paper" (Score:1)
conveniant placing (Score:3)
Re:Ooh, Ooh (Score:1)
No Need to Worry (Score:4)
But with a chip as simple as the Crusoe, it would be awfully embarrassing to screw up the bare metal that much.
But... (Score:5)
Awaiting the Narn Bat Squad to mod me down.
Perhaps the most frightening statement is: (Score:1)
Neither NEC, Transmeta or Sony could be reached immediately for comment.
Someone screwed (Score:2)
Either way this is not a good news.
-- George
Re:Ouch... (Score:2)
Re:Recall lawsuit fears? (Score:2)
Re:Battery life is ALL that matters (Score:1)
Re:Possible pr1st fs0t? (Score:1)
And to whatever crack smoking moderators gave him this point (probably in an attempt to get rid of it), lay off the pipe. I'll see you in MetaMod.
slow reaction time (Score:4)
Compare that to the lightning quick reflexes of ppl that get First Posts here at /. You snooze, you lose. So cheer up all you FP'ers out there. There is a future for you in the Stock Market.:)
Re:More info...(and funny too!) (Score:1)
Re:Perhaps the most frightening statement is: (Score:1)
Re:C'mon guys. (Score:2)
Re:TROLL TUESDAY (Score:1)
Nothing's going right for Transmeta (Score:3)
their shirt on is a winner, and will in the long run render CISC
procesors obsolete. But I doubt that Transmeta in it's current form
will reap the benefits. Look at what has gone wrong for them:
700MHz machine gave performance that is probably in the range
450MHz-500Mhz (but independent, comprehencsive benchmarks are not to
be had). By all accounts this has been very disappointing to
Tramsmeta's engineers.
in Intel's and AMD's flagship offerings. Transmeta have not shown off
anything new in this time, so their already poor performance is
falling behind.
year, which, while settled looks to be settled in a quite expensive
way for them.
notebooks.
Most likely outcome: they get bought out by a competitor (Intel?
IBM? perhaps even AMD or Sony?), at a favourable or not so favourable
price. To survive on their own they will need to do something
surprising.
Theories abound. (Score:1)
A tuxedo is nothing without a purple, feathered hat. The Linux Pimp [thelinuxpimp.com]
Re:TROLL TUESDAY (Score:1)
Re:C'mon guys. (Score:1)
C'mon people - this is Linus related...it must be non-news.
WHY DOES TRANSMETA HIDE THE BOGOMIPS NUMBER? (Score:1)
Just.
Post.
The.
Number.
It's the right thing to do.
Re:TROLL TUESDAY (Score:1)
Re:And why should anyone be surprised? (Score:1)
Unless your megacorp requires you to use Outlook. Then you need a PIII 128 JUST to get Email...
Re:It is! (Score:1)
Re:More information? (Score:1)
From http://www.geek.com/procspec/features/transmeta/c
"...when problems or design issues come up they can be fixed in software instead of hardware. This makes it a lot easier to develop a chip, and work around any flaws that are encountered..."
and
"It would seem to me that users need to be able to update their Code Morphing software in some situations, like if a serious bug is found or new
features are added. "
Now, NEC is not an idiot, I assume, so they know all this is true. If that is the case then there is a bona fide h/w problem, is there not? If it were anything else, it could be corrected by flashing the EEPROM (or something...). But that's not the case... "NEC is mulling a recall". Help me out here, I could be wrong.
Re:C'mon guys. (Score:1)
They morph the bulb in dude. (Score:1)
Link.
real market for transmeta: Apple (Score:1)
Hmmmmmm....
Seriously: the transmeta patent filings indicate that the initally-target ISA for their technology was PowerPC, not IA32. How hard could it be for them to switch over and deal with PowerPC, especially if apple paid them?
They are a perfect match in many ways: apple has always used low-power chips, and apple's HW design is increasingly resembling embedded devices (for all intents and purposes, the cube is an embedded device.)
Plus the rumors (see macosrumors.com today) indicate that Apple is pressing IBM + Moto to allow 3rd party people to make PowerPC chips. If Apple goes with transmeta, this wouldn't even be necessary, as IBM is the foundry for transmeta...
Re:Excuse Me ... (Score:1)
by Poligraf (liedetector@netscape.net) on
Wednesday November 29, @08:56PM EST
And its founder used to be a chief processor
architect at Sun. and the technology they
claim as their own was initially developed in
Russia before 1990 because 1990-91 was the time
when Elbrus team had designed the
UltraSparc I (or at least helped Sun to start
with the design).
It means that it is not THAT new.
_______________________________________________
"Sbaw-w-w-n in the C-I-A", (c) Boss
"Back in the ewe SS awe" (c) Beatles
More bazaar than ever?
_______________________________________________
Does that mean it's irrelevent that
Intel didn't go broke because the
8086 was too slow for Windoze?
AMD shoulda gone broke businesswise
but penguins carried AMD on their
shoulders for years and AMD is
just coming into their own now.
There's room for Transmeta. Even
with their proprietary dark area
their code-morphing area is an
enlargement on the space open-
source minds have been thriving
in. More bazaar than ever!
____________________________________________
"Spaw-w-wn in the C-I-A", (c) Springsteen
"Back in the ewe SS awe" (c) Beatles
Greenspan's Anti-Dot-Commie McCarthyism
(Mighty Wurlitzer v. Victrola Charlie)
"Kill the chinky gooks, er, cheeky GEEKS!!!",
said Alan Greenback
____________________________________________
ignore their big ugly feet.
It takes a crowd of penguins to carry
AMD, but why should we carry dinosaurs--
I mean run windoze? How many penguins are
there anyway?
Transmeta's stock price went down because of
SOMEBODY in the know ten dollars a couple
of days BEFORE the $5 drop a half hour after
this news...pre-news drop covered up by a dust-cloud
kicked up by Linus' bio
"Hoard intro credit card rates, drop til you
pop",Victrola Charlie advised Transmeta
"Kill VC[venture capitalists]!!!", shrieked
Alan Greenbacks, drooling and foaming.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:C'mon guys. (Score:2)
In other news, -1 Flaimbait gets modded as a 4...
This just in.. (Score:1)
http://vcl.vaio.sony.co.jp/products/common/note
For the Japanese-impaired, it says something to the effect that:
"There has been a reported problem with the Crusoe CPU where a system re-installation using the recovery CD doesn't complete..
For the C1:
As of 11/29, for the 26,000 units shipped there haven't been any reports of this problem
For the GT1:
As of 11/29, for the 2,200 units shipped there have been 7 enquiries regarding recovery CD problems, and these are being investigated."
Note: this is not a literal translation - just my rough summary. Basic meaning is there though.
Graham
This wasn't supposed to happen... (Score:2)
--Ben
Re:Excuse Me ... (Score:1)
More info... (Score:5)
The original, short article on the Yomiuri Times seems to be here [yomiuri.co.jp], although it's in Japanese.
The extra info that wasn't reported on the Yahoo! reads:
"One of the problems reported was that due to irregularities in the chip, basic software programs (eg, OS) could not be reinstalled"
Laf. That *could* be a slight problem if you plan on running Windoze...
More information? (Score:2)
It seems rather odd, I haven't been able to find anything on any news sites about the actual bug incident yet NEC and Sony are talking about a recall. If the bug is serious enough to demand a recall (I'm thinking Pentium math error type bug) we would hear about it from other sources. So, does anybody have those other sources?
Also, depending upon the type of bug couldn't the firmware within the chip be upgraded as the core of crusoe is programmable, it seems most bugs would be software centered although the possibility for hardware is definitely there. I hope this isn't Yahoo jumping the gun on a rumor that NEC is investigating. While I dont hold /. to a journalistic standard (It's just Rob's little playground, until people on here start calling themselves journalists) I would expect Yahoo to follow guidelines and not publish rumors. Where's the facts!?
Re: (Score:2)
Obligatory 100-th semi on topic trollish remark (Score:1)
--
Eat well, exercise regularly - oh, who am I kidding.
Not unexpected (Score:1)
This type of occurance should be expected. All chip manufacturers have had their own setbacks. Just because Crusoe is putting out chips that are parts of some damn cool gadgets that everyone wants doesn't mean they aren't vulnerable to the occasional flaw.
Re:conveniant placing (Score:2)
The "Paper" Reference (Score:1)
Either:
1) This can't be good during a time when dotcom stocks are being de-valued like nobody's business in the climate of 'make money before Christmas or die' (or is it 'holy shit remember the last time a Bush was in office' I can't be sure).
Or
2) This is the best time for a high-tech, new economy recently-IPO'd company to have bad news, since they are all going to hell anyway.
I can't be sure (IANAEconomist, either).
And to think TMTA was one of the brighter boys of the recent IPO's. Pity.
Re:Why cite Yahoo ??? (Score:3)
Chip-failure-paper (huh) (Score:1)
The Japanese daily Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper initially reported on the chip-failure
Looking for tickets [ebay.com] to the Broncos/Seahawks game on Dec 10th at Mile High?
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Interested in the Colorado Lottery?
Re:More information? (Score:1)
Failure to reproduce Intel bug? (Score:2)
It is the IO most likely (Score:2)
I ran through lots of tests including a full debian install on a Crusoe Vaio. It ran very well (twice faster than the older PII model) and had no problems besides X (I could not get this running and sony deserves all the flak it can get for the display in the new Vaio).
A the same time it could not install RedHat, recent SuSe (old Suse installs fine, upgrade is also fine) and Mandrake. In all cases it hanged on the initializing swap the first time. Which definitely shows a problem. Either in the CPU virtual addressing or in the peripherals.
It is not just crusoe that is new in the machines. Crusoe is accompanied by a north bridge and new peripheral chips. As most of the machines released so far are subnotebooks these are not standard and IMHO buggy.
I am not saying that crusoe itself may not have bugs but from what I saw so far bugs in the north bridge (which unfortunately is on the same chip with Crusoe) and/or south bridge/peripherals are more likely.
Re:conveniant placing (Score:2)
have been a lot worse for Transmeta a month ago...
C'mon guys. (Score:2)
This just in:
Two homeless teenagers were overheard discussing that Microsoft will be filing for bankruptcy next week. For the time being we can only assume that this must be the truth as officials at Microsoft have not responded to requests for comments that have been sent to info@microsoft.com 10 minutes ago.
In other news, Slashdot.org has buckled under the load of 50 comments being posted at the same time. Officals at
A "chip failure-paper" isn't a tech term ;) (Score:2)
"NEC mulls PC recall, citing chip failure-paper"
In other words the information 'NEC mulls PC recall, citing chip failure' is attributed to a newspaper. e.g. "The presidential race is over-Bush" has Bush saying he is the president.
-Shieldwolf
Intel Flexing It's Muscle? (Score:2)
Why is this bug such a big deal? Complex microchips are inherently buggy. It would take years to test all the capabilities of a modern microprocessor for errors. It's never done.
So, either this bug is big enough to really warrant a recall, in which case it should have at least been described in the article on yahoo, and likely would have been discovered in previous explorations of the chip, or...
Intel is pissed and wants destroy Transmeta before they become real competition (which is understandable, yay capitalism!