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Amiga

Amiga Allies With Red Hat 69

Posted by Hemos from the getting-to-know-you-getting-to-know-about-yr-SDK dept.
Mike Bouma writes "Amiga and Red Hat are working together to provide the foundation for exciting games and consumer content for the desktop, set-top-box, game console, and handheld market. This announcement follows monts after the disclosure of Amiga`s relationship with the Corel Corporation. The Amiga SDK can now also be bought at Redhat.com. Also take a look at this review which includes benchmark comparisons of the Java performance of the Amiga SDK running hosted on Redhat 6.1 and native Linux Java implementations."
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Amiga Allies With Red Hat More

Amiga Allies With Red Hat

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  • Well, the only Linuxes I have actually used is Redhat and SUSE, and I must admit that Redhat works for me. I like the simplicity. But I am at the same point very aware of many people not liking it because of clumsiness, etc.

    Wait.. I'm talking back nicely to an AC-flame... Karma whoring again.

    I'll just quit now, I think.

    --

    "I'm surfin the dead zone

  • I guess this puts to rest these rumors of the "magic" Java implementation that was supposed to be multiple factors faster than anything around. It's faster than IE in some cases, but on balance, IE kicks its butt.

    Now could someone explain to me why anyone would use Java as a primary development language rather than where it's useful -- an embedded controller language?

    Caveat: If we had native-language compilers (NOT compilers that operate on the byte codes), we might have some reasonable Java speed. Unfortunately, no one seems to want to remove the JVM millstone around the neck of Java-the-language -- and at the same time remove the brain damage from the language (such as the lack of an unsigned type, my personal pet peeve).


    --

  • It keeps the same concept that the amiga name always brought after it's "death": Innovation... not "bull gates"'s innovation, as in stealing stuff and putting it mainstream, but true innovation.

    For the people bitching that it's not fully backward compatible with the 1985 amiga models, just run UAE, with all the current high-speed CPU grade to chose from, processing power shouldn't be a problem.

    I like the concept of VP, I like the fact that this company ACTUALLY shipped something, not only vaporware.

    As for people biching about the Java engine's speed, you should have read the article entirely before jumping to the benchmarks and whinning about the results, this is a DEVELOPPERs version, and they've got some improved stuff already, not bad for a 1.0 version.

    And finally, for those who claim that there's "no old people from commodore" in this project, well there's at least 2 good things: They won't fuckup (marketting-wise) and look at what Dave Haynie has to say about the VP (of course, you know who Dave Haynie is, right?)
    http://amiga.org/editorials/2000/0808-haynie.sht ml

    If you want more information I also suggest reading http://www-4.ibm.com/software/developer/library/am iga.html?dwzone=linux

    I wish them luck, and success. For those who don't like it, just don't read about it or use it! put your negative energies on something more worthwhile like human causes or do something better, this one deserves more than a chance.
  • You left out Jon Katz, Napster/MP3s/DeCSS, and GPL vs. EveryOtherPL.

    But you have to admit they tried!
  • Someone should do his homework before just assuming that there is no difference between the AmigaOS of 1992 and the AmigaOS under development now.
  • I've resolved to use the word cunt where I would normally use fuck, just to see what kind of reaction I get. For the moment, nobody around me has seemed to notice. There is a movement on british television lately to slip the word past the censors as often as possible. Its a trend.

    See You,
    N.T.
  • There is a difference between Platform independence at the source level (Like Solaris, NetBSD WindowsNT etc) and platform independence at the binary level. Can you see your average computer user recompiling an app so he can use it on his PC and a Sega DreamCast? I doubt it. But if it`s just a case of popping a CD with the same application on and having it run on both I can see that being very popular. Second Java is slow (at least so far it has been) that`s why it`s never taken off. Not cause people didn`t want it. Remember Sun sued MS because they deliberatly tried to cripple Java`s Write Once Run Everywhere philosophy precisely because they saw that one day it could be a threat to them.
  • Yeah. I used to play that game for hours...

  • RedHat acquires Amiga.
  • That was a company under different management though. I was wondering how long it would be before I heard the first ignorant Let it die in peace comment. If you don`t like Amiga don`t comment on it. Ignore it.

  • Re:Some corrections and addings. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Yes I have seen it run natively. And also it runs native on some Motorola smart phones. It uses a slow M-Core processor, but it manages to give astounding good Java performance. I haven`t been able to figured out a way to run any benchmarks testers on the phone though. But I think this is going to be HUGE.

    But let`s wait and see. According to Amiga they will have user-products available within months.
  • It is funny/frightening how to see that *all* the companies that previously worked with Amiga faced serious problems (Commodore, Gateway, etc.).
    Will RedHat confirm this obervation ?
    For what I see there is nothing that spectacular in their SDK, except Amiga's name.
    I hope RedHat investors will trust them, though it's only sounding like a superstition.
    --
  • It's also 100% vaporware.

    Or, in the case of Amiga, "CasperWare"...
  • What set Amiga apart from it's competitors when it was first released was some seriously ahead-of-its-time-ass-kicking hardware with a very intelligently designed (for the time) software interfaced to it. Unfortunately, the reliance on a stringent hardware specification was part of Amiga's untimely demise. In a world where entire corporations revolve around a specific type of chipset (sound cards, video cards, ethernet cards, etc etc), there's no way Amiga was in any position to keep up. The market is just moving too fast, and Amiga ended up spending way too much time thrashing around in financial distress to be able to keep up.

    The current "Amiga Administration" admit the fact. That was then, this is now. They're clinging to the past no longer.

    Yes, Intel, AMD and Transmeta appear to be the CPU big boys, but Amiga is promising an operating system that is processor independent. Wham. Level the playing field, and maybe even invite other big boys like DEC and Motorola into the game. I think the entire concept of a truly processor-independent OS has some startling potential to shake up the hardware market.

    What about the OS factor? Well, with AmigaOS being hostable on multiple OSes (yes, even Windoze eventually), in addition to being as standalone OS when it's ready for release. The consumer is thus free to run in the environment of their choice and still run Amiga style applications Software that isn't OS restricted. Wowie. Once again, breaks down the traditional OS barriers. THIS I really would like to see them pull off!

    My only skepticism comes from their ability to deliver on this exciting and rather ambitious set of promises. The Amiga market has been burned so many times that it's difficult to look at new promises without spewing your glass of milk out your nose because you're laughing so hard. I think that the current Amiga Inc. has managed to do a lot in a very small amount of time, and as a big fan of the original Amiga plaform I'm willing in typical fashion to give them time to stand and deliver. I look forward to what else they have to offer.

    Amiga once again has an opportunity to break new ground (though some may argue that the only Amiga in this new machine is in the name and the logo). I wish them the best of luck.

    --- [DrPsycho] Coping with reality since 1975.

  • Hard to be 100% vaporware when you've already got a development environment to show for your efforts. Granted, a lot of the groundwork was laid by Tao-Group, but you've got to give credit to a company like Amiga Inc. who -- though less than a year old -- has managed to pull itself together with something significant to show for it.

    --- [DrPsycho] Coping with reality since 1975.

  • Aah... it's been a strange life for Amiga hasn't it?

    I miss my Amiga. It still comes out of the cupboard for a good old thrashing every now and again, and I run UAE, and play a few games on that too.

    Everybody (except you Trolls) seems to be very positive about the return of the Amiga name if nothing else recognisable.

    This maybe partly linked to the current trend of retro gaming, but it may be something else too.
    I can see a definite need in the IT community to break away from the corporatisation of computers in general. Linux is part of that, because of it's non-commercial angle. I think the Amiga is another example of that need. The Amiga was a 'fun' computer. It wasn't just the fact that it was pushing back the barriers of 'Multimedia' (ironically, a word that was used only in later years referring to PCs), it was the whole vibe of the Amiga people.
    I think that now in the days of the dotcom, and the techno-yuppie, real old nerds long for the days when we and our mates could sit down with a few beers and play Kick Off, or Lotus, or F1GP until our eyes bled, and love every minute of it!

    I think now, we need more than ever for Amiga to survive, and to produce something solid, while at the same time preserve the Amiga spirit.

    I just hope it's for real, and not another Walker [mem.net].

    Anyways... enough of this before I start to cry! ;)


    "How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge [insurge.com.au] - AK47
  • Ummm. There are and have been several "processor independant" OSes. Or at least "multi platform OSes", such as NetBSD, Solaris, Linux, Windows NT, and OpenStep. Witness how far any of those have taken off, at least in their "cross platform" incarnations.

    So far as processor independant apps. We already have that with Java. And again, it's not doing much for joe consumer. Great for enterprise computing, but not much use for anyone else...

    The point being, if people wanted and cared about those things, then we'd have them already. The motivations already there, it's just a matter of customer demand. And I don't think that's going to happen any day soon...

  • who cares...lets get linux working first (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    who really gives a rats ass about this lame as not used OS, linux has the backing lets working on perfecting it

  • Disappointing from afar... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've been following the new Amiga off and on for the past few months, but have not ordered the SDK.

    They seem to have a viable cross platform development system right now, at least running on top of linux, but I have been very dissatisfied with the information available at the Amiga.com web site. Almost all the useful information I've obtained so far has come from elsewhere - personal web sites, etc., and review sites. Nothing but good things.

    Why is so little content provided by Amiga.com? I would expect to see more specifics about projects underway by Amiga itself and by third parties with screenshots and links to these projects. For example, the RedHat blurb had almost no useful content. Exactly what do they have in the works and why are they so reluctant to let people know?

    $100 for the SDK is not really an issue, although more developers might give it a try if it were free. I think developers are reluctant to jump in if they feel that others aren't doing the same, and nothing provided by Amiga gives me much a sense of being part of a "community" if I do jump in. I was very much a part of the old Amiga community 10 years ago, but most of those connections are now gone - people have moved on, etc.

    Again, the technology is quite good and it's not vaporware. It's here and it works. I consider the new Amiga to basically be a cross-platform system for home users and creative people - Java done right. I don't regard it as a corporate thing and the emphasis seems entirely different from what Sun and IBM offer. Also, the abiity to work in platform-specific code where needed seems alredy to be in place, and has been demonstrated satisfactorily to me at least with linux.

    What's the bottleneck? I do not care about announcements of corporate endorsements and partnerships. Haven't we had enough of that all last week with the Gnome hype? Of more interest is how the new Amiga is faring in the developer/user community, among those who will do the real work if the new Amiga is to be a player, Those are the people to be courted and supported.

    Any comments froms someone closer to the scene would be appreciated.

  • I had my article edited by two of the developers at the Tao Group, one of them being the lead programmer. I hope they know their own system better than whatever random people you are talking about.
  • Yep, that's the one. I've got about 5 revs, including one with dropships. Since I registered I have the editor. Someone else passed along some notes on using a hex editor to max out (Severe Munchkinization) a 'mech on weapons, armor, heatsinks, ammo, etc.

    I love a company of AC/10 and LRM15 eq'd mechs. I had something wild, very slow, but hauling 6 LRM 10's It was evil.

    Yeah, I think HackLite might have been the first place I saw Keystone Kops. Fun!

    Didn't get PB, but had FTA, I upgraded the O/S and my Archon doesn't work anymore, neither does Breach. Well, it works, it just scrolls ugly.

    The old Quantum 80 meg HD is now spun up, time to go play that old VT Conquest game (with ascii characters :) Ta!

    Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
  • I wonder how bad it will crash since the Elate kernel has no memory protection. The other tid bit that bothers me is it's not multiuser either.

  • The scoop (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22, 2000 @06:39PM (#835880)
    Folks, this is not the story. The story is here at amiga_articles [flyingmice.com].

    In an nutshell, the new Amiga OS based on the Taos java vm does work, but Amiga could care less about its users and their target is embedded devices and set-top boxes, not desktop apps and games that might run on a home computer. As most of you know, the initial SDK selling for $100 runs on top of RedHat linux, and you can develop many types of apps with it, but, the licensing for such applications includes this:

    AS SET FORTH IN SECTION 3 OF YOUR LICENSE AGREEMENT, IF YOU DISTRIBUTE ANY SOFTWARE CREATED USING THE AMIGA SOFTWARE, YOU MUST PAY AMIGA A QUARTERLY ROYALTY. YOU ARE ALSO REQUIRED TO PROVIDE AMIGA A REPORT OF YOUR DISTRIBUTION AND THE RIGHT TO AUDIT YOUR RECORDS. To review details relating to these obligations, including the royalty rate you are obligated to pay, you may click the "Previous" button below to review the License Agreement again.

    No point in reading much further into the license or taking the time to try out the SDK. If you ordered one, ask for your money back. It is a complete waste of your time.

    Further, the Taos vm does not include memory protection, which makes it no better than the old Amiga for desktop apps but might be acceptable for appliances which consist of an os and just one app where if the app crashes the system is unusable anyway.

    Squid is quite pessimistic though he has posted here tonight in to put a more positive spin on things.

    I say fuck 'em. If you are an old Amigoid as I am then transfer those creative energies to Linux. There are plenty of good, free SDK's for developing games and more are in the works. Of course Amiga is allying with RedHat because RedHat is very interested in the internet appliance market. But this does not mean that RedHat has any plans whatsoever to incude an Amiga OS or addon with its Linux disto. Redhat has no sch plans.

    The spirit of the old Amiga lives on in Linux even though the name is not the same. You might also be interested to know that Amiga Inc. is vigorously prosecuting anyone who uses the Amiga logo (in its various forms) on a website but I feel they have no right to the trademark. A trademark is more than a name, and they cannot claim to own what a user community has a much more valid claim to by imparting value to the mark. Amiga Inc. has done nothing to honor and respect their trademark, but has instead insisted on once again screwing the community with hype, false promises and licensing that makes development of software by small operators and enthusiasts next to impossible.

  • An amazing thing I heard that Tucker automobile company was working with Ford to bring the Tuckers back to life. All 50 original owners are very excited to see the new car. It still uses the original engine, they just slapped a turbo on it and a catalytic converter for the emissions. I think they also added seatbelts and an airbag.
  • GCJ can compile direct from Java source to native code, although the results are pretty much the same as compiling from bytecode (since the bytecode is equally expressive as the source).
  • I bought this SDK.

    I've written a few command line applications.

    The Java claim is for personal Java, not Java 1.2 as many may think. The current Amiga SDK is not Java 1.2 compliant, no AWT for one!

    The binaries have there locations hard-coded into the binary. If you try and rename/move/copy the file, it will not work, period. It must me put in a specific spot.

    The SDK is good at producing much smaller executables than Linux and you can run these apps anywhere there is a run-time environment for these binaries.

  • Linux represents what we want as users. Diversity, difference, power, flexibility, etc. But Linux is not the end-all to operating systems. There is plenty more room available for a powerful OS. The AmigaOS was not lame, and was far better than anything M$ OR SCO could offer at the time.

    Linux will never be perfected. No OS will. And frankly the concept of 3 major OSs out there on the desktop doesnt make me very happy. (MS, Linux, Apple) I say bring on the new architecture - wow us to death, bring in a new OS, and lets keep up the competition.

  • My my. Aren't we protective?

    I ran no pirated software and was otherwise very gentle.

    I do know what a TSR is.

    And I still think Amigas are crappy.

    --
    Max V.
  • I wasted many an hour playing this game. The Mech design I found worked best was a 100 ton mech with maxxed out armor, 3 medium lasers, 3 small lasers, jump jets, and about 20 heat sinks. You used it by running up to an enemy and just pounding the snot out of them. By staggering your weapons fire (instead of shooting them all at once) you could keep up a continuous hail of fire, one shot every second. Because of the very short recycle time of the small & med lasers, you could slag most mechs in the time it took for their main battery of weapons to recycle. With enough heat sinks you could shoot your lasers all day and not build any heat. I usually deployed one of these mechs in tandem with a lightly armored missle boat; with this combination, I could easily defeat units that out-massed mine by 3 or 4 times. Granted, this design wouldn't work in the BattleTech board game, but on the computer it was unbeatable.
    "The axiom 'An honest man has nothing to fear from the police'
  • Would anyone else find it incredibly hilarious to have a Linux box with a flashing red "GURU MEDITATION" box?

    Dear my! What are those things coming out of her nose?
    Spaceballs!
  • This is what we need for a simple, easy to use, GUI for linux.

    Workbench!

    No more cunting around with XF86Config :-)

    the AC
  • Well, as a Linux user I think it is a good oppertunity to get some game development going.

    Although many Linux users don't play that much games (not interrested?), it could be a mayor problem when trying to convince casual computer users to convert to Linux. I have friends that would never use Linux, just because it can't run Starcraft.

    On the other hand (as an old amiga user), I think this is good for Amiga, because Redhat is a respected (as in business) company. Respect and trust is something this company needs badly.

    Well, Redhat is maybe not that much respected among Linux geeks though... ;-)

    --

    "I'm surfin the dead zone

  • quick test: 'wc -buzzwords' (Score:4)

    by TheInternet ( 35082 ) on Tuesday August 22, 2000 @02:22PM (#835890) Homepage Journal
    "Amiga and Red Hat are working together to provide the foundation for exciting games and consumer content for the desktop, set-top-box, game console, and handheld market."

    In case anyone's wondering, this sentence is 35% buzzwords (9 buzzwords, 26 words total).

    - Scott

    ------
    Scott Stevenson
  • Ok, sounds good, but I've had an Amiga since they've first been available. With the departure of Michael Cowpland [slashdot.org] from Corel, I'm not sure how solid the ground is yet for Amiga Linux support from those quarters.

    Could be I just got very cynical from all the commitements from vendors who never held up their end. Granted, some of that was probably due in large to Commodore's old marketing strategy: "Ready, Fire, Aim!"

    Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
  • Mine already does. It's part of the BSOD screensaver. :)

    :wq!

  • We'll have to wait and see if Amiga screws RedHat like they did QNX. Few people had even heard of QNX outside of their still righteous demo disk [qnx.com]. At least that ignorant puke from Gateway resigned shortly after that whole fiasco. This whole SDK sham sounds like a bunch of hooey IMHO. Who cares if it's fully buzzword compliant? I'm rather sick of hearing about the latest follies of this zombie company. I say let it die in peace instead of trying to make a half dozen shoddy sequels. It was sickening enough when Jack Tramiel and subsequent CEOs were running things into the ground back in the day at Commodore.

  • This announcement follows monts after the disclosure

    Hemos, we love you, but learn to spell! I'll buy you a dictionary if you like.

  • One issue I haven't seen discussed is that the Elate/Amiga virtual machine always pretends like the machine is little endian (Intel-style). This is accomplished by using some trickery for byte and short pointers. On big endian systems, before a load instruction is executed (for 8 & 16 bit fetches) the pointer values are xor'ed with a mask to make it appear like the cpu is little endian.

    Because of this, the result is a larger executable and slower execution times for big endian system (i.e. pretty much any non-intel system). I talked to Chris at Tao about this and he says most of the time is hidden in the pipeline. But I say you are always going to have negative effects. Your instruction cache will get filled faster because of more instructions and in the case where the pipeline doesn't stall on a load you can use that extra slot to do something else. My question is, how much effect does this have? I have yet to see anyone release perfomance numbers Java or otherwise for Amiga on a big endian system. Or maybe no one cares about non-intel anymore??

    A have a little more info on this at my homepage. [jonathanclark.com]
    --
  • You must have a pretty powerful machine. On my home machine (which is, admittedly, a POS) StarCraft runs just fine under NT4.0, but is unbearably slow under WINE. I'm guessing that it has to do with DirectX emulation. I imagine that under WINE, DirectX can't touch the hardware dirrectly, while under NT it is able to directly access the hardware at some points.

    Also, the Battle.net chat client built-into StarCraft is really hosed in WINE.
  • So..does this mean this will be my "bitch-box?"
  • I've been a long time Amiga user since I bought my A3000 back in '92 I believe. Really, it was an amazing system and still is. Windows refreshes never failed to happen in the blink of an eye, mouse cursor never locked on me. Amazing things happen when machines have chip level gui support.

    AmigaDOS however, is primitive in comparison with what Linux offers. The best part of the Amiga was in the hardware, not software. I don't think anyone would want to trade HAM for true color nowadays :-)

    Sounds like the new Amiga has kept the worst parts while migrating away from what made the Amiga special in the first place *the specialized hardware*.

    From my limited understanding, it appears to me that the new Amiga's mirroring the Apple strategy of embracing and extending Linux/BSD to me - piggybacking on their success to ensure their own. All in all, I love it (Linux should benefit) and they may have a shot.

  • Dr. Michael Cowpland accepts position at Redhat, overseeing the new transmeta-based Amiga.

  • MISIFORMATION AHOY! (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    False, Bill McEwen already clarified this! Absolutely NO royalties have to be payed to Amiga. Only if you want your product marketed by Amiga you can sign a VOLUNTARY contract and pay ONLY 1,5$ per title SOLD. (When you sel nothing you pay NOTHING)

    And the Logo and trademark stuff isn`t true either. But their lawyers did advise them to publicly state that anyone using the AMiga logo or trademarks needs premision for it from Amiga. But don`t worry they won`t bite you, and if you have a really inportant website a little notice below your website would be enough.
  • Tucker working with FORD???? You have to be joking!

    Do you know anything about the Tucker? If you did, you would know that 49 of the 50 originals are still in drivable condition! In other words, these are cars that are built to last. In addition the prototype still exists.

    BTW, you do know that those nifty disk brakes on your car/truck were invented by Tucker? You also know that Tucker's head designer went on to design the Dynasoar for NASA - a forerunner to the Space Shuttle? Padded dashes?

    The list of innovations Tucker developed could go on and on - most of them were "appropriated" after Tucker's company went under (due to the big three, like Ford)...

    The world lost a little freedom the day Tucker's company was forced under...

    I support the EFF [eff.org] - do you?
    • May I note to you that the SDK is running hosted on top of Linux with a performance penalty of 30-50%. ALso note that VP native assembler is several magnitudes faster than Java code while maintaining all the portability benefits.

      Tao`s Java engine is reported as being on THE fastest Java engine available on the market today (on native hardware with its own drivers etc)!

    Uh - I don't know that these are corrections :-)
    I was analysing the only set of statistics available - talk is cheap, and I don't see any hard facts here.

    I've heard the claims about Tao's speed on native hardware. I believe that Java should be running on naked hardware, and I do believe that it could run that damn fast.

    But I'd like to see it for myself.

    Let's go to Tao's Website [tao-group.com] & look for benchmarks [tao-group.com]:

    • While benchmarks are occasionally useful for clearly defined applications (such as the TumblerTM cryptographic toolkit), they can in most circumstances be thoroughly misleading. Most benchmarking systems for operating systems, the C language and the JavaTM platform fail to present relevant information in running 'real world' applications. Furthermore, different companies are selective about definitions so comparitive benchmarks between official corporate 'marketing' results has little value. While the benchmarks we have run for ElateRTM and for intent JavaTM Technology Edition, have provided stunning results, the Company has a policy of not providing operating system-related benchmarks which will inevitably lead Tao into an unwanted set of discussions. Tao's policy is to co-operate to allow the customers to reach their own conclusions about Elate's performance, compactness, consistency across platforms and other key criteria.
    This is true - benchmarks are bogus - <cynicism>but this does look rather evasive.</cynicism>

    Okay - so does the native Tao VM come with the SDK, or only the Linux version? Does anyone actually have the native Tao VM, so we can see some benchmarks?

    I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade.
    I do hope this is true.
    I'd just like to see a grain of evidence.

    cheers,
    G

  • "O-tay" on the other hand, is from Eddie Murphy's imitation of Buckwheat, of The Little Rascals. I am glad we had this interaction, as confusing as it was for me. Ciao.
  • And yet another Lynuchs fR34k procures his very own share of ignorance. I mean, it's like trying to sell Windows2000 to some geek that thinks it's the updated version of Windows98... What's next in this world, a band of companies that join together to make Gnome stable/viable???

    Bill McEwen's Banquet Speach [amiga.org]

    It's 13MB but worth the listen.

    Now where'd I put that "light of day" at?
  • No worse than when our local cable provider used one for scrolling program schedules, messages, etc. and it got hung for a whole weekend, with the red Guru box blinking.

    Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
  • ..But without the original team behind it.. how much like the good ol' amiga will this be? Ah well, at least Commodore wont be there to Fsck it up..


    -
  • Best game on the amiga was Ralph Reed's BattleMech 8) If I try to upgrade that old box and it stops playing the game, it goes retro PDQ.

    Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000

  • IBM 1.1.8 24 bit: n/a (Score:3)

    by barracg8 ( 61682 ) on Tuesday August 22, 2000 @02:45PM (#835909)
    The most surprising result was not the Amiga one, but the IBM one.
    • The problem with the Logic test under IBM jvm is that it is too big, and the numbers are off screen.[about the 1.1.8 VM]

    The logic test is designed to test the VM's ability to spot redundant loops of code & optomize them away. The 1.2.2 VM has an okay score but by the sound of this, it is a lot worse at this kind of optomization than the JIT in 1.1.8. That sucks.

    A look at the breakdown of the test results shows the Amiga kicking ass at the image test, and especially the string test, but not showing too well elsewhere. That's a shame.

    In the second set of tests, IBM gives it a thorough beating, everywhere except for the image test: 7000 to 3300 overall :-(

    I wish them all the best, but methinks the 'blazing fast Java' claim is really a little premature.

    cheers,
    G

  • Re:Replace Xfree86 with Workbench (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    give yourself a pat on the back for finding a way to use the word "cunting"
  • Hard to see how Amiga can rise above the rest of the crowd unless they come up with something spectacular; what with Intel, AMD and Transmeta staking out the processor / hardware end of town and Microsoft / MacOS / Linux (various flavors) staking out the OS end. Someone should remind Amiga that the world is a very different place to the 1980s ! Amiga had its opportunity to break new ground, but instead chose to cling to the past.
  • A fundamentally new OS with an emphasis on cross-platform binaries, the ability to multiprocess on non-homogenous CPUs, shipped as a "hosted" system running on another OS (at least for the time being). An Amiga with no hardware of its own, no custom chips to become obsolete in 18 months. A totally fresh start, no 68K code at all, except inside an emulation layer (probably UAE or a derivative).

    Yep, I'm just feelin' the 1980s here...

  • Heres the Lowdown (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have used the new Amiga SDK, and I am well informed as to what they are doing, and frankly....it rocks.

    The New Technology:
    * Binarys are platform independent, infact the entire OS is. Whats amazing about this tho is there is NO speed drop. I can testify to this as I have used the SDK.
    * File size is upto 50% or smaller than say a Linux equivalent.
    * Takes as little as 2months to port the OS to a new CPU which means you can have the OS ready to go with a platform filled with apps before your chip is even ready for the production line (14+ CPUs are supported at the moment).
    * The OS can run ontop of other Operating Systems in a window for easy moving or interworking. Some of the OS's include Windows, Linux, BSD, EPOC, PalmOS, WinCE and ALOT more.
    * The OS is also a Realtime OS.
    * Each binary can use far less memory, upto 40% on average less as not all of an exe has to be loaded into ram, just what you need.
    * Java is near native, if not native speed. On a nonhosted system Amigas Java system is over 6x faster than the 2nd best JVM.
    * Java can be changed into native code.
    * The OS can work in a machine with Multiple processors, even of different KIND! (So a Pentium3+StrongARM would work fine)
    * It can also use MISC (Multiple Instruction Set Chip) chips, and infact is the only OS able to at this point in time.
    * It takes a very small amount of time to port Linux code to the OS, POV ray for example was ported in 4hours, Quake in 1 hour and Doom in 15minutes.
    * You can code in C/C++ or any normal language (including assembler) and it will still be platform independent.
    * The OS already runs on everything froma 3MIPS cellphone to a Multiple CPU Server.
    * Most old Amiga apps will run on the new OS, meaning 10s of thousands of apps are ready to go including Lightwave, Octamed, ImageFX, Photogenics, classic games, Possibly even MacOS translators.
    * Did I mention it already works on the DreamCast and other Consoles will be coming? :)

    Impressive stuff, still....its upto everyone to decide what they like and what they dont.

  • Oh dear... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Red Hat has just been cursed.
  • Ugh! Back in those nightmarish two years of my life (when I used Amigas), Guru Meditation Errors were daily rituals. I hated those boxes more than I have disliked any computer system (even Win95) since.



    --
    Max V.
  • Except for the multiprocessing bit, you have OpenStep nailed.

    Look at how well it did.

    (Yep, there's GNUStep. GNUStep is cool. Why do we need another GNUStep, then?)

    --
    Max V.

  • This story renders slashdot obsolete (Score:3)

    by hatless ( 8275 ) on Tuesday August 22, 2000 @04:16PM (#835917)
    Let's see. Linux, Red Hat, Amiga, a gaming SDK, Corel, Java and vaporware. All in one item.

    The only way to make it more ridiculous would be to somehow connect it to Pete Townshend and the next Star Wars movie.

  • We need specifics (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ok squid, you are the man to have the inside scoop on what the Amiga developer/user community is actually *doing* with the new Amiga. I'm aware of all the good stuff about cross platform capabilities, and that the new Amiga as a system running on top of linux actually works right now. I've read some reviews and I trust them as being reliable.

    Specifically, what new apps are under development either by Amiga itself as proof of concept or as a showpiece or by third parties to exploit this wonderful new technology? How will they be marketed? Any progress of vm's for something other than RedHat Linux? (Oh, I can probably check your web site and get the info there, but still it would be a nice guesture to provide something for Slashdot readers who are not aware of your special interest in Amiga).

    Until these kinds of specifics are provided, Amiga will never recapture its old following much less attract new users and developers. Remember, the original Amiga got off to a good start with a whole slew of applications written by the developers of the system themselves and that is also needed this time to break the ice.

  • And if you use wire it into your Isuzu Amigo [google.com] as an mp3-player, will the resulting graphic boyfriend-girlfriend action cause censors' heads to explode?
  • Okay. Reasons why the New OS isn`t being ported to the 68060 1) It`s not finished yet 2) There are more important chips to port it to first. 3) Motorola ASKED Tao NOT to port their OS to the 68k series.
  • They died due to marketing and stupid stupid decisions on the part of commodore again and again.

    Anyone remember the "Dangerous Streets" pack for the A1200? Did they even play that lead title for their new platform?

  • As tested, it works with SuSE, Slackware, Caldera, Debian, and Corel with a bit of tweaking on some minor parts. Besides, replace Gnome with something stable and it's not as bad. Sawmill and blackbox are two good extremely light replacements.

    SDK FAQ-o-matic [amiga.com]
  • Everyone who used to use Redhat has now migrated south to Mandrake.
  • You can use the Aqua themes for GNOME if you want. There are prolly also ones for KDE. OK, you don't get the requester animations, but for me, it's close enough.

    Amiga will not open old AmigaOS code. For a free AmigaOS (3.x-like) implementation, see http://www.aros.org/ . It rocks and is MPL.

    It's... It's...

  • Re:why redhat?? (Score:3)

    by DrPsycho ( 13308 ) on Tuesday August 22, 2000 @02:49PM (#835925) Homepage
    RedHat has the visibility and penetrance into the consumer market that Amiga craves. Realize also that we're talking about the Amiga SDK => Software Development Kit. It's a package which gives a very bare-bones look at how the new AmigaOS is going to function, to give developers a heads-up as far as what kind of environment they'll have to work with as far as creating new apps and porting over old ones. For the development phase, the "AmigaOS" will be hosted by Linux... but that's for development. It will be hostable on multiple platforms, and even as a stand-alone OS by the time it's ready for release (insert your share of "New Amiga Real Soon Now" jokes here). To extend the analogy, they're running their ferrari with the VW engine until their own engine is ready to be dropped in. :^)

    In short, if you're going to host with Linux, and want some serious impact on the general public, there are plenty of distributions to choose from. Some are better choices than others, and the ubiquitous distro-flame-wars are proof of that. Why not go corporate... go well established... go RedHat. I'm sure RedHat has plenty more going for it than just slick PR, while your opinions of the actual distribution may vary.

    --- [DrPsycho] Coping with reality since 1975.

  • It's still got video. Biggest beef I ever had was having to use Interlace for hi-res, but at least I could use an off the shelf TV for a monitor. At least it came out of the box working with 60Hz.

    Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000

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