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DivX Support Under Linux? 138

Sesse writes: "XMPS 0.1.1beta is out, with experimental DivX support for Linux (by thunking to the Windows DLL). It's still buggy, but it seems to work! Sounds like good news for bringing multimedia another step away from Windows-only systems :-)" XMPS driving force Damien Chavarria has placed a screenshot on this page about the DivX support. Can anyone comment on success with this, name files successfully viewed, etc?
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DivX Support Under Linux?

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  • Yes, it's only x86 Linux, because it uses the Windows DLL to do the decoding. Maybe it'll work on Alpha using the x86 emulation, though, I have no idea.
    --
  • There is no legal issue if you use the actual Windows (Media Player) CODEC to do it. It's perfectly possible, and no reverse engineering has taken place.
  • XMPS is a piece of GPL'd software which requires a non-GPLd library in order to function. This will inevitably inspire comparison to the KDE/Qt issues. Here are the key differences to head off the pointless name calling and bickering.

    The key difference here is that the authors of XMPS clearly intended it to be used with this particular non-GPL library and that is believed by some (heresay says RMS himself) to create an implicit license.

    I small minority of the KDE code was written without any intention that it would be linked to Qt. (e.g. kghostscript which derives a work from the GPLd ghostscript code)

    The implicit license fuzziness can be avoided by adding a line to the copyright to be GPL plus it is allowed to be linked to the particular windows DLL.

    And just to headoff the next logical subthread, that depends what the definition of `link' is, consider the spectrum...
    • source code included in main compile
    • source code compiled and objects linked in
    • object library linked
    • shared library linked
    • library accessed through CORBA/DCOM/RPC
    • library accessed through fork/exec/pipe

    The GPL says...
    For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all
    modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable. However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.


    Over the years that definition of `modules' and `components' has wandered around in the spectrum of source, libraries, shared libraries, and ORBs. There is not currently a consensus and you will find reasonable and knowledgable people that differ on whether a DLL linked at runtime is a module or component of a program.
  • Try installing a more recent WINE build.


  • The author is under no obligation to port it to any other architechture/OS just because someone wants him to. If you want divx support for another playform, how about programming it yourself?

    Adam
  • DeCSS is designed to circumvent CSS - that's it. Nothing else. it's not an educational experiment, it does not even remotely quality for reverse engineering for education or review. Please do not try to insult us by pretending otherwise. DeCSS is designed to remove the CSS encryption, that's all it does, that's it's designed for purpose and exactly what it accomplishes. Bypassing the region code is a byproduct.

    Oh, your point #4 is completely inaccurate, try actually reading the law, I have. MPAA can't? You mean, haven't yet - they've won every filing they've made and the defense has lost every one. Expect this trend to continue. Corely is a test case - unfortunately his representation is hopelessly outclassed, their depositions hover over useless territory and pick on old men outside of the focus of the case. They waste the courts time and anger the judge, I expect a quick trial. Next you'll be telling us Napster is not used to bootleg MP3s of copyrighted music.
  • Microsoft is using mpeg-4 in asf/avi stuff. The divx is a hack that get's around the microsoft layers (copywrite protection, other stuff) and allows one to play basic mpeg4 stuff.

    what I don't appreciate is what the DivX folks are actually coding, and what the xmps people are using. My understanding is that xmps would have to use parts from ms, as well as divx.

    Hopefully there will be collaboration between xmms and xmps, as the xmms people want to offer video too.
  • Yes, but in order to use the DLL, don't you have to own a copy of Windows.

    Umm... nope. Divx311alpha license agreement doesn't say jack about paying your M$ tax before you use it. They may have assumed that you would have to do so before you run it, but that assumption will do them no good in a court of law. Sorry, trollboy.

    ==>>Losing karma by the bucketfull by opposing this Micro$erf, what has happened to slashdot?

  • Because the site is /.-ed (and I knew this link 2 days ago) I created a mirror. I don't know if my provider likes the website /.-ed, but we'll see about that later :)

    The link is: http://www.warande.uu.nl/~jverelst/xmps/ [warande.uu.nl]
    Have fun!!
  • M$ is quite an appropriate abbreviation.

    Microsoft is an epitomy of the modern, thoroughly immoral corporate mentality: profit at all costs.

  • Now, if only FlasK could be ported to Linux...we'd be made in the shade.

    I haven't used flasK mpeg but is there any technical reason it can't be ported? The source code (GPL) is available on its homepage under DOCS. Any coders should also look into the DivX port contest [flashingyellow.com]. In the files section there's a ton of useful source code, though maybe not all legal.

    Anyone have a technical description of MPEG-4 compression? I understand a bit about MPEG-1 with distance vectors and all that, but what is it about MPEG-4 that makes it so cool?

  • This isn't the DVD-rental shit. This is a video codec based on MPEG-4.


    One Microsoft Way
  • this is _not_ flamebait.

    Linux is a crossplatform OS. when programmers limit themselves to the x86 architecture, everyone loses out. the PPC and Alpha crowd at first, but Linux can't finally get "world domination" if most apps run on only one platform and we _all_ get screwed.

    i shudder at the thought of a x86/Linux dominated world. Linux is all about freedom of choice, and the whole "Linux on x86 is all that matters" train of thought gets us nowhere.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    A new version of smpeg was recently released and has some hardware support for yuv stuff. Anyways, I get around 4 - 10% cpu usage when playing 320x240 mpegs with a tnt2
  • Can someone who got this before they were /.'ed please put up a mirror?
    --
  • As I have already said, I think this is amazing, and I really approve of what those people are doing. This enpowers users of free system, me included. But I did post [slashdot.org] a related Slashdot criticism yesterday in the KDE-licencing flamewar here. I was raising the issue of double standards. That criticism was largely ignored, but I feel strangely validated, now.

    "[XMPS] is a GPLed app which uses a proprietary library. The licence makes no explicit exceptions. Sound familiar? Now read the Gnotices. See anyone complaining? I don't. Everyone looks thrilled. Somehow, I'm not surprised. Slashdot posters would react the same if the news got here. This is a Gtk+ app, after all."

    As I say, not too far off...

    "But of course, anyone writing GPLed code and linking it against Qt is a GPL-badmouthing, uptight, arrogant, crack-smoking, gay devil-worshipper. [...] When I see how such troll posts about KDE consistently get moderated up to +5 Intersting, I start looking for the button which allows me to moderate *all* of Slashdot down."

    Hmmm... A double standard, maybe? Now tell me I was wrong.

  • Entirely right, DeCSS circumvents CSS. I don't think anybody disagrees with that. The thing people are disagreeing with is that circumventing CSS should be illegal.
  • Hey, that's pretty cool. Definitely one of the good things that has come about because of Windows compatibility research and work. Of course, I'll be a lot happier once the driver gets re-written in portable source code.

    It works, although the framerate was quite slow for me (using the SDL output on XF86 3.3.6). I just compiled glx.so, so I'll have to try it again with the OpenGL output. Sound was way out of sync, but it may again be because of SDL. If not, I'll just blame my CPU speed (375 MHz)
    --
    Ski-U-Mah!
    Stop the MPAA [opendvd.org]
  • BeOS video is superior, and their sound is good. Their multithreading is good, too. I still think they should strip the OS down and make it a runtime environment for network games.

    -jpowers
  • After seeing this on Gnotices yesterday, I grabbed it and gave it a try.

    It really does work great... just be sure to strictly follow the directions on the page (X in 32-bit color mode will NOT work right).

    If you get segfaults, try the SDL rendering method - OpenGL seems to crash for me.

    The video works great on this Athlon 750, but I hear the audio gets out of sync if you have a lower end machine (audio is decoded in realtime, so if the video lags it gets progressively out of sync).
  • i personally prefer beOS for multimedia but linux seems to be moving closer and closer to being a real alternative to both windows and be's limited system.


    "But Doctor, if they take away my head surely I'll die?"
  • DeCSS is designed to circumvent CSS - that's it.

    It also makes copies. This is a use of DeCSS that is not deencryption. Rectify this fact with your statement.

    Bypassing the region code is a byproduct.

    But a use of DeCSS nonetheless.

    Oh, your point #4 is completely inaccurate, try actually reading the law, I have.

    I did, too, specifically:

    "1201(2): No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--

    (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;

    (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof; or

    (C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof."

    You may have missed, in your prior readings, the words "primarily designed" or "limited...purpose."

    Then there is the issue that the right to prevent fair use propter hoc is not a right granted to the copyright holder, yet the studios' TPM does this.

    There is also the issue that non-copyrightable or expired-copyright material may be behind a CSS controlled system.

    The list goes on and on. The defense will demonstrate this when the time comes.

    Right now, though, they are involved in depositions [cryptome.org] that reveal that the studios cannot tell you how or when you are entitled to use the stuff on a DVD. They're also fighting the preliminary injunction, and in the process they're severly hampering the credibility of the studios' expert witnesses [cryptome.org].

    they've won every filing they've made and the defense has lost every one.

    Does that include the motion to have Garbus' firm removed from the defense? Or the motion to have every deposition confidential?

    You are terribly misled.

    You did not address my points 1-3, or 5-7. You failed on point four. All of these are supported by depositions, court filings, self-evident facts or the DMCA. Your response was mere rhetoric.

    I haven't even mentioned how certain elements of 1201 may be unconstitutional, though certain of the plaintiffs arguments would entail such a conclusion. In this sense they're digging their own grave before they've even taken it to trial.

    Besides trolling, I'm confused why you would waste your time defending doomed arguments and speaking about the case as if you actually understand what is going on. You clearly don't. Or maybe you work for that DVDCCA thing that MPAA President Jack Valenti has never heard of. [cryptome.org]

  • Ok, I'll admit, I just like the fact that the codec's real name is "DivX ;-)" smiley face included. That being said, I got it working easily (though you MUST MUST MUST be in 16bpp).

    For testing DivX's I just went to http://divx.ctw.cc/ and checked out their Trailers section. All the trailers I tried worked great.

    Only problems I noticed where that sometimes after playing one DivX, if you try to play another it would sometimes be messed up...quitting and restarting xmps worked though.
  • I have a vision of running everything that I can in windows on my linux box as if it were native. And waching microsoft sit on it's hands and cry. While this may seem far off right now (wine) with all the atention that linux gets these days... Anyway, kudos to the hacker.
  • sorry for my ignorance but I have a few questions and /. is a good place to get answers =)

    Isn't Divx not a real standard format? or is it? if it isn't then we're happy about support for a non-standard format? Isn't Mpeg4 not officially released yet? Don't get me wrong Divx is awesome (never thought I'd say that hehe) and I'm very happy to see it go to Linux. Although they do have the codec functioning now on linux (thats good) hmmm well I would really appreciate some answers =) thanks


    My Home: Apartment6 [apartment6.org]
  • Joking I hope?
    DIVX sucks, DIVX is a pay-per-view system.
    DivX ;-) is a hacked Mpeg 4 Codec for movies.
    Big difference.
  • eh.. the DivX codec has nothing to do with the (now dead) DVD-rental crap.
  • nothing, this is the next mpeg (it's not called divx by the people who first developed it). It's like going up a version of software, but this time, the files get smaller and the video is crisper.

    Because of that, there was supposed to be some sort of copy protection built into it. M$'s first version of the software didn't have the protection, but a bunch of people downloaded it anyway. Now it's going to be the porno standard for a while. It's a good thing.

    -jpowers
  • Yes, but in order to use the DLL, don't you have to own a copy of Windows.

    Not good for many people around here who only use Linux and most probably don't own a copy of windows.
  • Hmmm, I don't think that Linux has the ability to play MPEGs, although Linus might want to look into adding support for doing so. Although it is my opinion that an MPEG playback function does not belong in in the kernel.


    He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
  • ASF???? Are you kidding me? If the dozens of movies that I've seen in ASF are any indication, ASF is the lowest quality, most worthless format in current existence! IT SUCKS! Don't pollute the good Linux name with compatibility with this format!!!

    It's much cooler to remain incompatible with inferior technologies.

  • I didn't mean the kernel when i said Linux.
  • Although i havn't been able to access the site (Slashdoted), i assume it links against the DIVX codec, which is a third party CODEC and not part of Windows. So there should be no problems there.
  • by tie_guy_matt ( 176397 ) on Sunday June 18, 2000 @09:47AM (#994366)
    We would have avoided half of the posts to this story that say stuff like,

    "DVD rulls DivX sucks!"

    Is there a reason why they chose the name DIVX? Maybe they should call it Matt instead :)
  • I believe my sig still contains a link to a nice site with lots of info on recreational drug use. I highly recommend it (sorry). (Site might be down right about now.)
  • Is there any reason that someone could not build something similar to DeCSS using a Windows DLL for the actual CSS stuff? It would not be cross hardware platform, but it would at least be something.

  • I noticed the XMPS page last updated 6/13 and the latest version of XMPS is linked against smpeg 0.10, but since then smpeg 0.40 was released. You need SDL 1.1.3 to compile. The "gtv" application that comes with smpeg is simple, but works well on all the mpeg-1 I've thrown at it, such as the Matrix South Park Trailer. Hats off to the developer(s) at Loki for their fine contributions to free software!
  • No, not DirectX
  • I managed to get in just fine and tossed it here [pressenter.com]
  • Selling, using and advocating drug use is illegal and immoral.

    Selling drugs is illegal, unless you're Pfizer.
    Using drugs is not illegal, unless you're actively trying to commit suicide, which is often illegal.
    Advocating drug use is not illegal.

    I'm going to go way out on a limb with the last one:
    You are not smart enough to decide for me whether any of these things is immoral.
    You're just going to have to trust me to do that for myself.



    -jpowers
  • Hell, I've paid for this windows shit. Specifically, I've overpaid about a dozen times, counting all those PCs at my office that are running Linux or OpenBSD and that had a mandatory Windows installation. So fuck it.
  • There's no law against ingestion, unless you're trying to commit suicide. It's possession, really, which would be covered by the Fifth(?).

    "What are you doing with my plants? Hey! you're going to have to pay for those!"

    -jpowers
  • There is no ghostscript shared library on Unix (unlike Windows), kghostscript, like ghostview and gs runs ghostscript as an external program and drives it through stdin/stdout. It's a borderline case of "mere aggregation", which is allowed by the GPL ...
  • XMPS uses some code derived from Wine to load the divx32.dll file for Windows -- so the CODEC per se is the Windows codec, just harnessed by XMPS using Wine code. If they could implement more in this fashion... maybe they could support even more video CODECs by writing to the Windows API? (Quicktime with Sorenson? ASF?)
  • Who would buy a BeOS game OS? who would write games for it? what is the advantage? it has next to no drivers for sound and 3d cards. games don't need a solid OS, they need a OS that they can tell to get the fuck out of the way.

    BeDope [bedope.com] (it's mainly humour based) has this [bedope.com] a bit back.

    Basically, it pointed at 'clues' between Nintendo and Be working on the Dolphin. Sure, it probably won't happen, but being both a BeOS and a Nintendo freak, this would be the stuff of my dreams :)

  • >Where did the Constitution give Congress the power to come up with an Income tax?

    Income Taxes: The 16th Amendment.

    There is no amendment to allow the regulation of drug use.

  • Not weird at all... it only works at 16 bit mode. You are probably trying it on 32 bit display.

    Rofl, well, that'd do it...

    -- iCEBaLM
  • I like Bob (as in the planet) better
  • Actually if you follow some of the media in terms of the WMA versus Real debates, Real is actually going well beyond just trying to make an honest buck.

    There was an article several months back where one of the biggies, like ABC dropped Real in favor of Microsoft. The main point of contention was not the cost of the server, but that Real was insistent that their logo be emblazoned over everything.

    They have an arrogant attitude, like if you want to do streaming video/audio well you have to come to them. Well that's not true any more, and they're losing market share due to their attitude more than anything else.

    It's the same attitude that killed Netscape.

    Most companies are willing to pay good money to buy a solution to a problem, especially if it's a really good solution. But I know of no company who wants to pay a lot of money and then provide free advertising for the supplier by emblazoning their logo... they want to put their own logo to show who is actually providing the content.

  • A better name could have been chosen, don'cha think?

    Well, I figured I'd follow on your reply, since it was more detailed than the other. This thing has completely passed by me, and now I have to catch up. Is there anything other than the slashdotted link above? Search engines seem to be indifferent to Divx vis a vis DivX

    P.S.: I get it now. DivX, as in DirectX.
  • HAHA, I know.

    It would be just as if I said that Windows' compression isn't as good as linux's. (of course, refering to winzip vs bzip2, but I wouldn't mention that). Comparing windows vs linux in that case wouldn't make much sense, and neither would it in your case. If you want to compare various MPEG playback programs, be my guest.


    He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
  • "[XMPS] is a GPLed app which uses a proprietary library. The licence makes no explicit exceptions. Sound familiar? Now read the Gnotices. See anyone complaining? I don't. Everyone looks thrilled. Somehow, I'm not surprised. Slashdot posters would react the same if the news got here. This is a Gtk+ app, after all."

    Yes, I have posted about this [gnome.org] to gnotices (before the slashdot story came up). So people *are* complaining ;)

  • XMPS is indeed released under the GPL. And it has indeed be linked to a proprietary Windows DLL. Now I invite you to notice who holds the copyrights to XMPS ... Damien CHAVARRIA, mostly. Now please answer this question, on which page is this hack posted ... Damien CHAVARRIA's, that's right. Now EXPLAIN ME WHERE THE PROBLEM IS, YOU DUMB ASS? He's used Wine code, X11 license; SDL, LGPL; XAnim, MIT license. So your point is .... ????
  • What's wrong with it? Funny is I am reading the book, The Dispossed, by Ursula K LeGuin. I am sure that /.ers will identify with the ideas in this book!
  • You don't have to have WINE installed to run this program! WINE is NOT neede by xmps!
  • Just a quick comment:

    Use the skined interface. I tried the gtk one, and it was nothing but problems. No fullscreen, aobut a 50/50 chance the movie would even load, horrible sync, etc.

    Changed to the skined interface, and it was like night and day. Can do fullscreen, the sync problems went away, and it was interesting to see The Matrix trailer playing full screen thought my V3 3k's TV out =)

    So when you try this, use the skined interface =)
  • I downloaded it, and it was the same as the version on XMPS' homepage. We'll never know if it changed throughout though, unless this AC shows the version he downloaded.
  • Look, it's really quite simple. DeCSS's primary purpose is to remove CSS protection so you can copy the VOB file and do what you will with it. The copy part is a subfunction. Look at it's name if you really need a clue. Read way way way back when it was first released as the author proudly proclaims it's for ripping DVDs. Visit the crop of new MPEG4/DivX sites that give very specific instructions with screen shots on how to use DeCSS (or newer, better iterations based on the same stolen technology) to rip a DVD, including menus and special features and how to compress them and how to make VCDs or standalone MPEGS/AVIs from them. To pretend this is not the case is to be utterly ignorant of the truth - I suspect you are being intentionally ignorant of these facts. And they are facts. When I can find for you dozens upon dozens of full lenght DVDs posted to alt.binaries.movies that proudly list "DeCSS" in their subject line your "for educational purposes only" reverse engineering claim goes no where.

    I'm glad you printed out 1201(2) - anyone reading it and who has the balls to admit what we all know DeCSS does can now so very clearly see exactly what law was broken and how your claimed defense fails.

    You are right about the two filings - I missed them, they were so minor. I stand corrected. However, all significant rulings have gone their way, I expect this to continue.

    And, if you have ever been involved in depositions you'd recognize the behaviour in these depositions, Valenti couldn't have been better couched, he was perfect. He gave the defense NOTHING - and that is the ultimate best case scenario. A deposition is not admitable in trial UNLESS contradicted by something the same witness says in court. So, Valenti gave them nothing. They continue to flounder desperately looking for their angle.

    I'm sure you didn't mention unconstitutional because you must realize it's not - and the judge has ruled and ruled again and again that it's not.

    No, I don't work for any of them and I'm not trolling. I just am not a hypocrite and don't pretend that I expect everything in life to be free and given to me on a silver platter and every time someone running an alternate OS gets something I whine like a baby that Linux should have it for free!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Not that the KDE version would work right.
  • Can we get a few more posts on which files have actually been viewed with this? I've got everything compiled correctly but all I get is a seg fault when I try to load a DivX. I tried to sign up to the mailing list but got no response (anyone else out there have any luck with that?).

    I've been messing with video since the vivo format was the best thing out there and every single time I see a DivX I am blown away with the incredible quality. The ONLY reason I reboot to winblows is to watch DivX's and I've been hoping for a video player for linux for a LONG time...

    Please let me know if anyone out there has had/overcome problems trying to get this to work.

    Thanks ;-)

    Links:
    DivX ;) Home Page [divx.ctw.cc]
    Good DivX FAQ [cjb.net]
    Great DivX Site [vcdguide.com] (with a post today about *nix DivX!)

  • Well I, for one, am running it in part because it works on multiple platforms. I may be on x86, but that does not mean that I don't care whether or not it runs on Alphas, PPCs, and SPARCs. Everything from GNU [gnu.org] does and frankly I don't see why anyone should settle for less.

  • *shrugs* alright, works for me.

  • Obviously, it's displaying in 3D. You just need to get a pair of those red/blue glasses, cross your eyes, and it should be fine ;)
  • Last I checked, you could download WMP for free (when it was beta) off of microsoft's site. Sure it's included in the total package (win 98, 2000) nowadays for free, but that would make it freeware, meaning you don't have to own a copy of windows to use it; so theroretically it's legal.
  • The 2 little movies side by side thing occured when I had it in 32bit color mode.

    Make sure you have it in 16.. go in XF86Config and search for any 32 and change it. If you want to really be sure, make the refresh rate different for 16 and 32 bit color modes, then check to see what your monitor says when you run X.
  • by FigWig ( 10981 ) on Sunday June 18, 2000 @10:07AM (#994401) Homepage
    Divx is just an implementation of mpeg4, a low-bitrate compression that is intended for streaming video over low-bandwith lines like 56k6 modems. mpeg1 and 2 are still better, but also a lot bigge

    Dude, you are just so wrong! DivX is a hack of MS MPEG-4 candidate code. It has been changed to allow it to be used in AVI files (MS only wants you to use it in ASF due to copy protection stuff) and adds in the Fraunhofer mp3 encode for audio. I believe it is VBR. This hack was possible because the MS code was available under an NDA and 'escaped'. DivX (and MPEG-4 in general) whup MPEG-1,2 ass! A standard VCD is 1374 kbits/sec, fits about an hour of 352x240 video on a CD, and looks terrible. MPEG-1 caps out there while MPEG-2 can do higher resolution/bitrates, but still aint great. MPEG-4 can easily fit about 45 minutes of 640x480 (resolution I sometimes use with TV captures) on a CD. Check out some DivX trailers [divx.ctw.cc] and you'll see what I mean.

    A lot of people claim DivX is better than a DVD (MPEG-2), which is true. Just don't expect to see than when you are stuffing the same video on one or two CDs instead of a DVD. It still looks great though.

    One other thing, this increased compression is traded off with greater processing power to decompress. You could do MPEG-1 with a pentium 133 or something, but I wouldn't suggest MPEG-4 without at least a pentium 450 or equivalent.

  • Not weird at all... it only works at 16 bit mode.
    You are probably trying it on 32 bit display.
  • I looked at the code and found that XMPS is using WINE's PE loader in order to use the Windows DLL file. That is, the author has ripped a part of WINE that loads Windows executables. As far as I know, WINE runs on almost every x86 Unix, including FreeBSD and Solaris, thus the title which says "DivX under Linux" is not quite correct.
  • I don't know if it's fast, but it's faster than Real. The only thing Real seems to do better than anyone else is buffering, and playing from a buffer. This really shouldn't be that hard, but well, seen Apple try to do it lately? Quicktime does a horrible job of buffering and playing at the same time, and I'm on a P3-500 with a TNT here.

    Anyway, the reason I don't use Real when I can avoid it is because of all the crap they shove down your throat, more than the poor video and audio quality. How many boxes do you have to uncheck to make sure you're not deluged with mail? And the last time I installed realplayer, it installed realjukebox without ever asking me if I wanted it, which I don't. I'm firmly convinced that Real is more trouble than it's worth and I wish that people would stop using it for things I want to see.

    Then again, this new divx ;) (SIC) codec solution may be the answer there.

  • well it is actually from experience. although recently i ahev started seeing that the only thing that works on beos exceptionally seems to be video.


    "But Doctor, if they take away my head surely I'll die?"
  • Now that you mention flamebait:

    I either agree or disagree with you. Here are the conditions:

    -If you are using Linux PPC, *slap* buy a new machine
    -If you are using Alpha Linux, you're my friend :)

    It seems that power in numbers means that the power draws more numbers. Usually Windows®, and now its x86 Linux...no matter how much you resist, it is always the laziest way (my way) to go with the flow.
  • Advocating drug use is not illegal.

    Maybe not, but I can almost guarantee that it will be stamped out somehow. We have a local talk show host who said on the air that people didn't have to fill out the census. The Census Bureau sent a letter to the radio station threatening legal action for his statement unless he was fired! They canned him. The way our freedoms are being attacked really scares me.

  • >He wasn't whining about Windows users, though,
    >was he?

    Boy, talk about TOTALLY missing the point.

    >It's amazing how many whiny shitheads crawl out
    >of the woodwork whenver x86-only software gets
    >announced.

    Wasn't it basically the same type of "whiny shitheads" that decided things could be done better by open, free software? The guys that figured that just because something was one way didn't mean it was the right way or the only way?

    >Either get off your ass and contribute some
    >portable software to the community, get x86
    >hardware, or shut the hell up.

    I think the point he's making (and that you're entirely failing to grasp) is that one of the major strengths of Linux (and [Open,Net]BSD) is that it IS so portable. Releasing code that's so platform specific basically eliminates one of Linux's major strengths.

    -LjM
  • It's really too bad, because I can't imagine something better to do with my next ten minutes.

    The copy part is a subfunction.

    What you classify is a subfunction is irrelevant. It, as well as bashing regional control, remain functions of DeCSS, and as such a defense to 1201(2).

    Visit the crop of new MPEG4/DivX sites that give very specific instructions with screen shots on how to use DeCSS (or newer, better iterations based on the same stolen technology) to rip a DVD, including menus and special features and how to compress them and how to make VCDs or standalone MPEGS/AVIs from them.

    Have you actually downloaded and used any of these to determine their nature? Neither have the plaintiffs.

    1. DeCSS is not a requirement to make VCD/AVIs of movies on DVDs any more than it is a requirement to make them out of a VHS tape.

    2. You cannot put DVD menus or "special features" into a VCD.

    3. This is not a copyright violation trial. The plaintiffs have not accused Eric Corley of violating copyright, so your point is moot. Eric Corley is not responsible for what is possible for other people to do with DeCSS.

    When I can find for you dozens upon dozens of full lenght DVDs posted to alt.binaries.movies that proudly list "DeCSS" in their subject line your "for educational purposes only" reverse engineering claim goes no where.

    I have never mentioned reverse-engineering or education, so your repeated mention of this does not help your argument. These are not my areas of expertise, though despite your sharp argumentation to the contrary, a defense can be made of these issues, too.

    However, all significant rulings have gone their way, I expect this to continue.

    All one of them?

    He gave the defense NOTHING

    The "nothing" he gave them was exactly what the defense was looking for. Besides, did you notice there were maybe 25 pages of confidential "nothing" that he testified to? Must have been some pretty hot-and-heavy "nothing."

    I'm sure you didn't mention unconstitutional because you must realize it's not - and the judge has ruled and ruled again and again that it's not.

    Falsehoods of this nature lead me to the if-then statement in my subjectline. The judge has ruled no such thing. The judge has not had an opportunity to do so, as the case is not at trial; and he would not even consider doing so until the defense pressed the issue given the plaintiffs inevitable position.

    If DeCSS is found to violate 1201 and the defendant is found to violate the anti-trafficking elements of 1201, the defense will argue that those elements of 1201 are unconstitutional (or at least vague and internally inconsistant) because of the necessary conclusions that 1201 prohibits fair use, violates the first amendment, etc. The plaintiffs may also be in violation of anti-trust law as a result of their testimony in their depositions.

    I just am not a hypocrite and don't pretend that I expect everything in life to be free and given to me on a silver platter and every time someone running an alternate OS gets something I whine like a baby that Linux should have it for free!

    While I assume you're attempting to characterize my arguments with that statement, you're pretty far off (again).

    I have not mentioned linux. I have not mentioned "free(beer) software." I have argued that the trial is a test case for the media conglomerate's pet law to see how much their money in Washington bought them. Unfortunately, it bought them an overbroad statute that sits in an uncomfortable position between the first amendment and anti-trust statutes that will necessarily be resolved by the judicial system; and I do not suspect they will be rewarded for their duplicity.

    So, if you're not "trolling," which really, by definition, you are at this point, you really ought to take the time to educate yourself rather than lashing out at things you don't understand. It really makes you a pitiful character.

    And you haven't clearly addressed my original premises, by which the plaintiffs are likely to lose their case.

  • I think we're getting back to one of those situations where something is a 'standard' because people are using it. DivX is like that... it's the preferred format for pirated online video now.... so, therefore, it's a 'standard'.

    The same thing happened with mp3 you know.. it really had nothing to do with mpeg (i mean, it *IS* mpeg II layer 3, but that's not why it was popular).
    THink about it. How many of the mp3 players actually are full mpeg II players? basically none.

    mp3 is a standard in it's own right sipmly because it emerged as a popular way to ship music around the net. Period. This would have happeend whether it was a rock-solid ISO standard, or whether it was something hacked up by geeks.
  • Ok, as one of the d00dz who has been around DiVX ;-) for a while, i feel obligated to drop some info here. My IRCnick (EFNet) is BcKSpacE, i hang in #DiVX from time to time, moreso when it's college time.

    1. The FULL, proper name is "DiVX ;-)" (with those cases and the smiley
    2. the author is (supposedly) Spanish, not french
    3. DiVX ;-) sprung from a hack of the M$ MPEG4 video codec, the same one that's used in ASFs. The codec needed to be hacked to be use-able with AVI video (non streaming).
    4. audio for DiVX ;-) is typically MP3 audio, however there has also been a hack of the WMA audio codec that will encode into AVIs. HOWEVER, there is an interesting issue with these hacked codecs on some systems. The hacked VIDEO codec uses the DiVX ;-) decoder codec. any AUDIO encoded with the (very alpha) hacked WMA codec is DEcoded with the BUILTIN windows WMA decoders. On some systems, this creates some really funky errors, depending on the version of DirectX media that's installed.
    5. the definitive HOWTO on CREATING your own, GOOD QUALITY DiVX rip can be found at the FM4 (Free MPEG4) site [fm4.org]. I wrote the original howto after reading some texts on it written by FM4. the pics are almost all mine... and MSNBC actually took one of them, stuck my hostname (From school) on the picture and posted it on MSNBC.com - without my permission. any lawyer geeks know how i can get back at them?

    Oh, and DiVX ;-) looks almost as good and sounds almost as good as a DVD... and if you have a fat pipe, it's easy to get and free... blows VCD/MPEG1 out of the water too. =)

    BcKSpacE AKA [Dilbert]

  • You're the first person who ever responded to my hypothetical. It's not something they'll post as an Ask Slashdot, and I needed to hear why it wouldn't work. Sorry the wording pissed you off, but sometimes it takes a little prodding to get a response...

    This is a classic clueless fanboy post.

    I'm NOT a BeOS fan, AC. Nor do I read any of their info. I had a bunch of the same PCs lying around at work, installed Win98SE on one, BeOS on the other. I ran the same videos on each one. Then I ran more than one at a time. Mixed a few apps in. Result: BeOS ran the video with nary a flicker. Windows didn't.

    Now look at Civ3. A god-game any os can manage (even linux). Watch the little movies pop up when you build a wonder. Watch the video flicker and the mouse skip across the screen under Windows. (Not much better under Linux). What would that be like under BeOS?

    Now look at the increasing amount of CG cutscenes used in video games. You think M$ would fix DirectX to handle them? No. Their video continues to trip over their own mouse drivers.

    Their sound is good?

    I set up the sound card and it worked. Same with Windows and Linux. Can't ask for much more than that.

    Their multithreading is good? They support threading primatives just like unix and win32 Perhaps you're refering to the fact that the APIs force you to use a thread per window, even when it doesn't make sense? You can have your app broken up into 1000 threads, but since 99% of the time, one of those threads is doing all the compute bound tasks sequentially, you gain nothing, and lose due to scheduler overhead.

    Frightening as it is, AC, I actually get what you're saying here. The threading makes no real difference unless you have multiple chips to spread the threads among, right? Now, if you were some sort of Lord High Quake god, and you had to have the best machine to beat the other Quake gods, and Quake ran multithreaded under the hypothetical BeOS runtime, how many chips would your computer have? As many as you could fit inside. Win2K handles more than one chip, too, right? Who's multithreading is better?

    Who would buy a BeOS game OS? who would write games for it? what is the advantage?

    It would come with the games, just like the old DOS runtimes, BUT it would install once and then any other games that needed it would run it. The advantage is that you have an environment to run graphics and sound JUST FOR THE GAME. The other advantage is that it would run under PPC, too. Not that I'm a Mac fan, either.

    ...they need a OS that they can tell to get the fuck out of the way.

    But Windows DOESN'T get out of the way. Windows freezes and GPFs all the time while we play games on it. This runtime I'm HYPOTHESIZING would never be in the fucking way in the first place.

    Please try to think rationally, and more importantly, know when you're in way over your head technically. You're just making yourself look like an idiot.

    You disagreed with me. Fine. You presented technical information to refute what I suggested. Good, I don't mind being wrong, and I've learned more reading this board over the past two years than I could ever teach anyone else.

    All the same, there's no call to question my ability to think rationally. It's the one area where I'm never [eserver.org] over my head.

    -jpowers
  • Of course, using the Windows driver should only be a stepping stone. Ideally, people will examine how the driver does what it does, and then re-implement it for Linux proper.
    --
    Ski-U-Mah!
    Stop the MPAA [opendvd.org]
  • by jpowers ( 32595 )
    Bothers me, too. But what's to be done? Short of a massive Supreme Court precedent that broadens the (currently underapplied) 9th Amendment, it doesn't look good for personal freedom.

    The station made a choice to protect its financial interests. They could have sued the Census people, though what company makes that decision these days?

    -jpowers
  • If you can't get it to compile, you probably don't have the required development libraries.

    You need SDL (find the SDL-devel RPM, available from lokigames.com), and you also need smpeg (also available at loki). Just install those, and their *devel packages and it should compile fine.
  • I love it - what screen shot is provided? The Matrix. Um... gee, just how did they get that Matrix DVD image into DivX format? A little DeCSS help perhaps?

    DeCSS + DivX is exactly what the MPAA has been talking about. You can rip a DVD into a very nice quality movie that can fit onto a CD and is easily downloaded from usenet after it's been RARed.

    I wonder if there is anyone out there who still thinks DeCSS wasn't built for the strict purpose of ripping DVDs, just as Divx's only purpose is to make the ripped files smaller while retaining decent quality... ya know (wink wink) for all those legit movies you are copying (the ones YOU personally have the copyright to because you cannot even copy a DVD you own).

    Of course, by the time the linux Divx playback is working, we'll be running mpeg-4 proper. alt.binaries.movies is the largest usenet group by a nice margin - and nothing but Divx encoded, DeCSS ripped DVDs. I think the MPAA will have no problem proving it's case...
  • by HomerJ ( 11142 ) on Sunday June 18, 2000 @02:43PM (#994418)

    nifty little program called lm_sensors. Lm_sensors...not just for cpu temp monitoring anymore =)

    you can get lm_sensors here [netroedge.com] you will also need the i2c package they have there. Screw RTFM, and just make and make install to the i2c source, then make and make install to the lm_sensors source. The default install is what you want, to compile everything as kernel modules and put them into /lib/modules/2.2.16. Then depmod -a

    Now, just modprobe i2c-voodoo3, and modprobe bt869. Now, when you are in X, you can use the TV out. But wait...it's all static, how do I get it to work?

    You need to add NTSC modelines into you XF86Config. there are as follows

    ModeLine "640x480NTSC" 28.195793 640 656 658 784 480 520 525 600

    ModeLine "800x600NTSC" 38.769241 800 812 814 880 600 646 649 735

    and for all you PAL people (poor saps (^_^) )

    ModeLine "640x480PAL" 29.50 640 675 678 944 480 530 535 625

    ModeLine "800x600PAL" 36.00 800 818 820 960 600 653 655 750

    Now, what I did was make my 640x480 Modeline NTSC all the time. That way, I could activate it by just a ctrl-alt-(+/-), and then programs like snes9x will automaticly use that 640x480, and be in NTSC mode. Remember, if you don't change your normal 640x480 modelines to the NTSC, and want to use them as is, put 640x480NTSC into your "screen" section of your XF86Config file. And also, as always, restart X after you change your config

    That's it, have fun =)

  • Tell me about it - I didn't succseed to compile it (and u need more then 4 other libs to compile it)

    Lets hope that someone will release either binary RPM (prefferable static), or - maybe someone will write a KDE version :)

  • I've played with it some more since I made this post, and one thing I've noticed is that its ability to play greatly depends on the video you're playing.

    The Matrix trailer works GREAT, like flawless... I've tried some intros to some other movies, with varying results. Some of them have messed up video, with audio working fine. Some segfault it.
  • No, this is DivX as in Microsoft's MPEG4+MP3/WMA implementation.
  • by GoRK ( 10018 ) on Sunday June 18, 2000 @09:09AM (#994437) Homepage Journal
    If this can be done for a video codec, then can someone please do this for WMA audio and Windows Media's streaming? Microsoft is maybe never going to release WMP for Linux and the number of content providers using this format is increasing every day (namely to the restrictive licensing that Real networks imposes on their software)

    This really is a relevant issue. Please don't moderate this down just because it has Microsoft smeared all over it. I (frankly) find it quite amazing the support that you all are giving Microsoft's (broken) MPEG4 stuff!

    ~GoRK
  • Yes, this is completely and entirely different.

    --

  • by Oscarfish ( 85437 ) on Sunday June 18, 2000 @09:09AM (#994444) Homepage
    http://www.digital-digest.com/ dvd/support/mpeg4.html [digital-digest.com]

    This is an excellent resource for more information about the DivX codec as well as MPEG-4 compression in general. Now, if only FlasK [go.to] could be ported to Linux...we'd be made in the shade.

  • by Bad_CRC ( 137146 ) on Sunday June 18, 2000 @09:14AM (#994453)
    crap, I REALLY wanted to try this, and it's already slashdotted with only 10 replies.

    People should remember that this DIVX isn't the same DivX as the stupid dvd pay-to-play clone thing, it's just a video codec.

    since DIVX and ASF are supposedly based off the same mpeg4 codec, is there a chance somebody can also hack the .asf format to play on linux? Microsoft has boasted that .asf is based on open Mpeg4 technology, therefore it should, in theory, be possible to hack out a decoder for linux.

    One of the main things I find lacking in Linux compared to doze is video support. I have a lot of asf and divx files I really want to play, and I haven't been able to get media player to even run in wine, so native support for these would be a HUGE milestone (from my perspective) in no longer needing to rely on windows for video.

    ________
    1995: Microsoft - "Resistance is futile"

  • Divx is just an implementation of mpeg4, a low-bitrate compression that is intended for streaming video over low-bandwith lines like 56k6 modems. mpeg1 and 2 are still better, but also a lot bigger. If you tolerate some quality loss and you want to fit your movies on 1 cd, then divx is the solution :)
  • 1. You can make screenshots of movies on DVD through many means.

    2. DeCSS does not help the process. The means of taking screenshots do not require the use of DeCSS.

    3. The current case against Eric Corley is not about copyright infringement, but is a test case for the MPAA's pet anit-circumvention law, the DMCA (aka 1201).

    4. It is not illegal to traffic in a circumvention device that has non-circumvention uses.

    5. DeCSS has non-circumvention uses, such as copying files and bashing region protection. (but that is a copyright violation you say? Unfortunately for you, that's for a court to decide.)

    6. The MPAA has not established how a person gets or is denied authorization to access a movie.

    7. Until they do, DeCSS may not be circumvention at all.

    Care to address these points? You might have a hard time, because the MPAA [http] sure can't.

  • It's pretty cool that they thunk to the Windows DLL, but one question (actuall a compound question.)
    What exactly IS thunking and how does it work? I know that Win95 thunks to the Win16 code, but I don't know what process is involved.
  • WMA audio with the current windows media player works fine using recent builds of WINE. Try it out.
  • The application is created for viewing a number
    of file formats. Most notably mpeg-1.
    This divX-thing is just an addon.
    It is probably a bit like plugins for xmms.
    As long as neither the plugin or xmms was created
    _for_ eachother it is okay.

    It all comes down to, I guess, wether or not
    the people behind xmps are going to create their
    own implementation, and just says "well, ours is not ready yet, but some people have told us you can use the windows-dll".

    If however they have deliberately created the
    function for the closed windows-dll, it is much
    more fishy.
    They could probably get out of it by removing
    the functionality, and giving it away to some
    other people who only distributes a patch
    that "may or not" let xmps play divX on Linux.

    It really sounds rather scetchy anyway.
    The GPL really isn't the right solution if you
    want to include closed-sourcecode.
  • I've tried it, and I've had some problems, the Audio seems to be fine, however the video is quite strange, it shows 2 instances of the video side by side with a really strange and slightly different color pallete on each one, I'm thinking if the two were converged it might display properly? Weird.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • by mcc ( 14761 ) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Sunday June 18, 2000 @09:26AM (#994469) Homepage
    ugh.. in my opinion, anything that allows this unholy format to become entrenched even further only hurts us all in the end, because if we do not allow it to sink quietly and naturally into the night it will torment us for years with its presence. But i shouldn't have just said that, becuase i fear i will start a flamewar. Ah well.

    however, my question is: since DivX is, in some bastardised way, related to MPEG-4, once the real MPEG-4 is finalised will it be possible to adapt the XMPS code as a base for an MPEG-4 codec? Seems like if this is the case, then the time spent developing the DivX codec will have been very very useful. I can't access the page; what liscence is it released under? GPL or LGPL i assume? [go lgpl!]

    <font size=-2>note: i'm sorry if i've offended anyone who thinks that DivX is a very useful and effective format for pirating movies or whatever. if you've gotten good use out of the codec, i'm happy for you. i just myself have no use for the thing and think you'd be better off reverse-engineering .doc or trying to apply political pressure on apple/sorensen to let xanim NDA or something. </font>

    [and now watch as slashdot, in its typical fashion, responds to everything in this post _except_ the one thing i _want_ responded to..]
  • anyone who has this file, please mirror it somewhere if possible.

    Why doesn't freshmeat mirror it's files?

    ________
    1995: Microsoft - "Resistance is futile"

To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. -- Elbert Hubbard

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