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Re:Corel has an office suite
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Parts that positively cannot be assembled in improper order will be.
Parts that positively cannot be assembled in improper order will be.
Re:WTF? (Score:1)
I *really* don't understand this (Score:2)
The makers of kick-ass development tools, that has (sadly) been in decline for the past few years?
Development tools? On Linux? That's always been Linux's greatest strength. Borland is like the _last_ company I'd expect a company that wants to be a Linux Power to aqquire.
I mean, how about:
- Adobe (Photoshop, font tech, PS/PDF, DTP tools)
- NewTek (Lightwave, an awesome 3D production tool)
- Sybase/Oracle (industrial strength DBMS)
- Lotus (123, Notes)
These make sense. But Borland?
The only reason I can see for buying Borland is that it's a good way to get a bing chunk of programmers all at once. But there's nothing I see attractive in the product line
Re:Pascal/Delphi on Linux (Score:1)
- Free Pascal: Written in itself, has a lot of extensions over "standard" Pascal which bring it _close_ to Borland Pascal. Available for a few non-x86 platforms.
- GNU Pascal: Written as a language front-end to GCC(GNU Compiler Collection
Neither of these compilers are in the same league as Borland Delphi. They are both staggeringly slow compared with the Borland compilers (OK, I can forgive GNU Pascal as it shares exactly the same back end as GCC). Neither compiler has adopted many Delphi-isms - which is good if you want a Borland Pascal look-a-like but lousy if you have 100k+ lines of Delphi (like me
When I looked at trying to improve these projects back in 96/97 the developers seemed less than enthusiastic about adopting Delphi constructs... YMMV.
Re:Corel and GCC (Score:1)
I hope not. The Borland compiler has a lot of advantages, the main one being speed. The Delphi 4 compiler will build my 100k line application from scratch in around 60sec on a PII-233+192MB RAM. An equivalent sized C application can take ~10mins (under Linux - much much more under Windows/Cygwin)....
GCC however is highly portable and can target many platforms and processors. Which is really neat....but you don't need (or want) an IDE to do that. Autoconf/Automake is your friend
Re:Wow. (Score:1)
Well, you can always use RHIDE, (looks like a Borland product, in text mode, yay!)
FreePascal, (pretty complete, not quite there last I checked. But back then it was FPK Pascal or something)
and NASM. (looks kinda like TASM, for those of us who don't want to learn AT&T-style Assembler syntax, for one.)
Oh, and feel free to port the BGI interface. I ported some of it to SVGALib, so I could move my graphics hacks over. Of course, I used p2c, and hacked the output some, and compiled with egcs, but it's all good. And my stuff runs much better now. I just wish SVGALib had more primitives, like "floodfill"... *sigh*
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:Wow. (Score:1)
Centerline's old "C++ compiler" didn't support boolean variables, true or false. I had to ifdef / define the darn things if I wanted to use them.
I'm not convinced that strong typing is a benefit, unless you can override it when necessary. However, I guess it helps catch errors if you know what types you want, and want speed. Lately, I've been using languages with pretty flexible types, and implementing something that *looks* like that in C++ is a real pain.
(pardon me while I override the + operator so it supports every combination of anything addition-like for every type, ever.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:Wow. (Score:1)
I don't know how much of a market there would be for an X RAD tool, but I understand there are such things for FLTK and GTK. (?)
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:Wow. (Score:1)
(define main
(lambda (i x)
(if (= i 1000000000)
x
(main (add1 i) (* x x)))))
(main 0 3.14)
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:Yeah right! (Score:1)
GCC actually optimizes things decently on Intel, and your problems did not concern optimization, but rather scale. And I've seen worse C++ compilers, but GCC definitely does better as a C compiler. It also has a lot of unique flags to tune its behavior in both C and C++, which is a really good thing to investigate.
Also, last I checked, GCC optimization sucks on Solaris, and probably a few other platforms. But again, that wasn't even what you were talking about. (I think) Also, it's nice that GCC supports so many platforms, and allows its users to extend it. That's really its strength, and also why we have Linux in the first place.
But when I wrote some classes that used templates, I had to #include my
Also, I agree, RHIDE for Linux is pretty buggy. But the original, RHIDE for DOS is much better. (and it runs in DOSEmu. Go figure) Also, I *love* its info browser. That is a wonderful idea, making it just like the Borland Help.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Wow. (Score:2)
Have we seen some little companies grow up and buy some big companies, or what? Compaq and Digital, AOL and Time Warner, and now this. It boggles the mind...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:Wow. (Score:1)
foo(int a)
{
}
was accepted. Notice that there is no declaration of return type -- a violation of every C++ standard -- and the compiler defaults to returning int, K&R-style. Even including -ansi -pedantic-errors would not trigger an error (it would trigger a warning, but not an error). I had a very hard time convincing the gcc folks at the time that this was a real, and serious, problem.
I'm glad that at least -ansi -pedantic-errors exists; for the most part, it's quite good. It's unfortunate that something as egregious as this (and in C++, where one of the major benefits is strong typing, this kind of thing is a real problem) slipped through for so long.
Re:Distribution Wars. (Score:1)
AT&T into AT&T + NCR + Lucent Technologies (n/t) (Score:1)
Delphi and C++Builder (Score:1)
Re:Corel and GCC (Score:1)
Delphi is very different, GCC doesn't include a Pascal compiler yet, and as you say, the Delphi compiler is much faster. I agree dropping it for an alpha version of GNU Pascal would be ridiculous.
We already have lcc, another free C compiler (n/t) (Score:1)
Re:Precompiled headers (Score:2)
Or something like that.
Corel and GCC (Score:3)
Hmm... Given the existence of GCC, maybe they will open source or drop the compiler, and sell the IDE only instead.
Re:I invoke Godwins Rule (Score:1)
Not really how Godwin's Law works, but I understand the sentiment.
The actual definition of Godwin's Law here [tuxedo.org].
--
Making iDirt 1.82 a safer place, one bug at a time.
Borland's version (Score:5)
--
Making iDirt 1.82 a safer place, one bug at a time.
Precompiled headers (Score:2)
Thanks,
Daniel
Re:I *really* don't understand this (Score:2)
Daniel
Re:I *really* don't understand this (Score:2)
Anyway, I'm obviously pretty ignorant about "visual" design; I've only tried to write one Windows program, and did it with very little assistance (I did use some buggy Borland dialog creation tool -- a resource editor, I think they called it). It was an enormous pain. I think the complexity and hackiness of the Windows API may be a major reason for the popularity of this sort of tool over there.
If I want to write a UNIX GUI program, I generally use GTK+. If I want to write it quickly, I use GTK+ in Python. The API for GTK+ is logical and consistent enough that I'm not sure that GUI drawing tools aren't redundant -- except for the rather cool dynamic-loading and design-by-nonprogrammer aspect I mentioned earlier.
Daniel
Corel/Borland: proprietary invasion to Linux? (Score:1)
Redhat and VA Linux are the future of computer companies. Corel/Borland is not.
I invoke Godwins Rule (Score:2)
Borland dilutes Corel? (Score:1)
Re:I *really* don't understand this (Score:1)
this has been a major annoyance to me lately. i dont know when borland started doing this but they have gotten into the nasty habit of trying to force their project structure down your throat. the reason i loved borland products before is that i could whip up and debug plain code in seconds. with jbuilder you have to make a project and you can't uninclude .java (during compilation) from the project if they are in the same directory as your project. with delphi, the ability to write a from scratch console apps is buried. i still love delphi but that pisses me off. they were alot better when they gave the programmer some credit.
"The lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths."
Is Corel "Serious" about Linux? (Score:1)
I for one am rooting for them. Hopefully they will keep raising the bar in the ease-of-use dept., pushing Red Hat and the other distros to continue to improve their product, too.
Speaking of Red Hat, I wonder if this was a "pre-emptive" buyout. If I were Corel, I would have harbored concerns that Red Hat, flush with cash, might have picked up Inprise/Borland themselves sooner or later. Not sure how that would have hurt Corel, though; just a thought.
Re:Little MS is born (Score:1)
First it was the graphics apps... Then they bought the Wordprocessor, Spreadsheet, etc.
Most of these companies which Corel is buying are ones which Microsoft has passed on. Borland was the major IDE competitor before Visual 'x' surpassed them. Wordperfect was the #1 Wordprocessor before Lotus was killed and Word bundled Excel.
To spare the usual Anti-Microsoft rant, Corel has not been leveraging an OS to manipulate their competition.
Corel/Inprise is now doing something interesting and exciting on a cool platform. I hope the quality of their software reflects the talent they should be attracting.
Boosting WINE, and working on a common printing environment are noble spinoffs.
Re:Effects of having multiple C compilers? (Score:1)
Actually as far as C goes GCC is really quite standards conforming. It supports tri-graphs, and lots of icky things that not all C compilers do. It has a lot of extensions, but all of them can be disabled by passing "-ansi -pendantic".
Of corse some of those disbleable extensions are now part of the recently-approved C99 standard, but GCC has more work to go on that front.
If you want to talk about C++ then that's another matter. A pretty mixed bag in fact. For example it was the first known C++ compiler to have exception support. It was also almost the last to enable that support by default (only turning it on within the last year!!).
Again it has a pile of extensions, again you can disable them all with the flick of a switch or two.
I don't see that adding more compilers to the mix will make GCC ditch any extensions, in fact I expect it will grab a few from the other compilers (some mix of the "best", most useful, most popular, and easyest to re-implment). It can't halp the "standardness" of the C implmentation, but it might give the C++ front-end a boost.
P.S. alot of the C++ extensions were added after much discussion in comp.lang.c++ about new pontental features. Some became standard, others, like typeof() should have, yet others have languished as they deserve.
Little MS is born (Score:2)
Sure seems that MS is settting up to compete with MS across the spectrum.
Effects of having multiple C compilers? (Score:3)
As software tools companies port their compilers to Linux, we risk getting into a situation similar to what exists in the Windows world...where there are a number of compilers available, each with its own quirks, libraries and special features.
Right now, go to metalab and download the source code for the linux app of your choice. It's a pretty safe bet that the app developer used the same compiler that you're using -- gcc. Possibly a different compiler version but same compiler essentially. Barring any incompatibilities between expected compiler versions or maybe kernel versions, you can be pretty sure that the app will build with little or no porting effort on your part.
In the Windows world, where you have compiler suites available from Microsoft, IBM, Watcom and Borland, just to name a few, it's not a given assumption that source code you download will even build in your environment. For instance, consider an app that's written to use the IBM OpenClass libraries...you'll have fun building it in a Microsoft Visual C++ environment. So even though the app itself might be open source, you're stuck installing pre-compiled binary version of it because you're unable to build the app yourself.
Let's hope this doesn't happen in the Linux community.
Re:Corel has an office suite (Score:1)
Re:No mention of gpl ... (Score:1)
Re:Corel has an office suite (Score:1)
Demergers? (Score:2)
Re:Is this really going to work? (Score:1)
I know I'll be first in line to get it. I'll even pay for it.
Yeah right! (Score:1)
huge program. The code compiled perfectly under
OS/2 and winblows with IBM Visual Age for C++
and Borland C++. (Dos with Borland only)
When I went to convert it to work under Linux GCC
would generate core dumping code until I limited
the number of virtual functions I had.
I also had to cut my modules in 3 or 4 pieces
because GCC would barf, the code being too big.
GCC under Dos generates a file that is about
3 times large than that generated by either
Borland or IBM Visual for C++.
I would advise you to rethink your adoration
of GCC. It may not be a bad compiler but it
is not the best by a long shot, it is the only
one under Linux that is readily available. It's
optimization sucks big time.
Comeau C++ which is a good C++ Compiler but you
still need to use GCC. I use GCC because I don't
have a choice but whenever Borland C++ and/or
IBM Visual Age for C++ are available for Linux
I will not hesitate for one minute to buy either
one of them.
Re:Wow. (Score:1)
during tracing you get core dumps. I've had the
same results under Slackware, RedHat and SuSE.
gdb may be the guilty one but being integrated
into rhide it's hard to be happy with either one
of them.
I was degugging my code with it and got sick
of it and went to OS/2 to do the debugging with
a real debugger.
To make things worst, the support for fonts is
almost as bad as on winblows. Winblows is OK
until the screen turns green or I get a page
fault. Under Linux I get garbage around the
edges of the screen when I use a decent font.
To see something acceptable only a few useless
OEM fonts can be used, if I use those stupid
fonts I can't see the accents in my French or
Spanish texts.
When Borland comes aboard Linux it'll be a dream
to debug code under Linux.
Somehow Borland got to me way back in the days
of CPM/80 and the love affair has never died.
There was Turbo Pascal, then Turbo C then
Turbo C++ and then Borland C++.
One thing I don't think you understand is... (Score:1)
Christian R. Conrad
MY opinions, not my employer's - Hedengren, Finland.
Re:Adobe's not for sale (Score:1)
--
" It's a ligne Maginot [maginot.org]-in-the-sky "
Quattro Comes Home (Score:1)
I was acutaslly a big fan of Borland's apps, back in the DOS days. They had a kick-butt wordprocessor called Sprint that had a full-out EMACS emulation mode, and a very powerful macro language. It died, unlike Quattro,which was spun off to some other company (not sure if it was Corel directly).
Hmm... I think I may still have a copy of Borland's DOS version of Quattro... And, of course, Turbo-C totally rocked my world back in the day.
Sad how the mighty have fallen, but maybe they'll do better in the Linux market.
Corel played the game better (Score:2)
Now, the best thing Corel could do with Inprise nee Borland would be to hurry along the release of Delphi - a lot of programmers are waiting for Delphi to show up on LInux before then finally defect from Windows. For such people (I know several personally) Linux will only be be seen as a real platform when it runs Delphi.
Re:Demergers? (Score:2)
Re:Corel has an office suite (Score:1)
Don't forget StarOffice [sun.com].
Canadian buys Yank (Score:2)
Re:Effects of having multiple C compilers? (Score:1)
Re:Distribution Wars. (Score:1)
Corel stocks drops on the news (Score:1)
I'm holding out though. I've got around $7K tied up on Corel stock right now. I think they are ripe to be acquired themselves. They have development tools, their own office suite, and their own distribution. My gut tells me that a Red Hat or VA equivalent is going to snatch them up soon.
---This routine borders on black magic. Touch it at your own peril.
_______________________________________________
Re:Demergers? (Score:1)
Microsoft spinning off Expedia (I don't know if it's happened yet). There's been talk for years of AltaVista being spun off, although I don't think that it has ever happened. Oracle said that they were going to spin off a Linux network computer unit, although I haven't heard anything about it in months.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Distribution Wars. (Score:1)
I wonder if this means that the forthcoming port of Delphi / C++ Builder will lean to GTK / Gnome?
Or, worse yet, will be Corel Linux only? That'd be very annoying.
Gotta keep an eye on these guys.
ignorance reigns triumphant (Score:1)
1. Inprise, while no M$, is certainly not dying.
2. Interbase is, in fact, in widespread use in enterprise level and embedded applications.
3. The Java IDE may or may not be inferior to that of IBM, but IBM has an abysmal performance record at marketing good software, or of remaining committed to it. Remember OS2?
No, you don't get it. Real commercial software products are not built by macho C programmers who refuse to use a RAD tool, but by programmers who select tools for the productivity they provide, and for the ease of production of solid programs.
Visual environments, for the most part, make the programming of the UI a task so formidable that it dwarfs tha actual application code in many cases. Delphi, C++ Builder, and JBuilder all put the UI development where it belongs: in a simple and quick IDE which lets the programmer focus on coding application code, not UI code.
My only concern with this deal is that Corel may lessen the commitment to continued support for the Windows development language tools. You do remember Windows, don't you? It's that OS which many of us pragmatists do hate, but which still dominates the desktop market.
lovely??? (Score:1)
WP was, at least through the 6.1 version for Windows, a horrible, bug-ridden disaster which I used only under extreme duress.
Not that Word is the holy grail, either. Actually, the single most productive word processing tool I have ever used was Borland Sprint.
Re:This is good for the Linux Community (Score:1)
You don't like it, leave. You know what he/she meant.
Re:WTF? (Score:1)
Anm
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Unless you're trying to be a parody, in which case it didn't come off too well...
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
Re:Corel has an office suite (Score:1)
Re:Why the drop? (Score:1)
Re:Cradle-to-the grave? (Score:1)
Really? I hadn't noticed that.
--Robert West
--Delphi R&D
Re:Cradle-to-the grave? (Score:1)
The delay in the Delphi patch was related to a delay in the release of C++Builder.
More details than that i'm not willing/able
to give you at this time --- ask me at the
conference.
Oh no.. (Score:1)
I was happy to hear that Borland would indeed be releasing their command line tools free of charge, but what about the GUI stuff? I hope Corel won't be using this to have Borland only make Kylix work for KDE/Qt rather than GNOME/gtk+ (or whatever combination). I don't, however, think that Corel would be stupid enough to make Kylix a Corel-distro required thing. Now I'm also worried that they'll do the winelib thing with Kylix for some reason.
Or maybe I'm just paranoid.
Re:Oh no.. (Score:1)
Here's a better link (Score:1)
I think this is very cool (Score:2)
I may be wrong, but I see Unix in general, and Linux specifically, as one huge development environment.
So do I, and many others. Indeed, that was one of the main goals for the OS back when Unix was being written in the early 1970s. However, there is no reason you cannot add more tools to that environment, such as Borland's offerings.
I don't know how much Borland can add to the C/C++ tools, and I doubt there's room for another scripting language. Is Delphi all they have?
Borland's development tools are very nice to work with. Their VCL (GUI framework) is the best I've ever used. Elegant and easy. You can use their visual form editor to drag-n-drop, but you can also write it in code -- or both. The IDE detects changes you make to the code it writes, and back-updates any data files it needs.
I would really like to see C++Builder on Linux. Delphi, too. I like Object Pascal for its clean design. It isn't a standard, nor is it portable, unfortunately, which limits its uses in "real world" code, but I find it fun to play with, if nothing else. And Borland has a number of other products as well, in the database, Java, and CORBA markets.
So, yes, I think this could work. Will it? I don't know. If I could predict the future, I wouldn't need to work on computers for a living. :-)
What about MS's shares in Borland (Score:1)
I'm sure they won't object though since with a company in charge that is pushing Linux, development of windows apps may slow which can only be good for MS. Of course if borland do get good cross-platform tools then it could be considered a big threat.
Ummm..... (Score:1)
Just go to their website, I'm sure they list some other products you may have heard of. Like WordPerfect. And "Corel Draw". Etc. They've been around for a while--probably 10 years.
--
Java banners:
Bad for users because Java kills Netscape
Re:Inprise traded at $4 for years, now at $14 (Score:2)
I owned some Inprise stock (actually bought it when it was Borland) for a number of years and it was quite a bumpy ride. The main problem for Inprise was total and comlete turmoil in management. CEO's and CFO's coming and going, name chage ( I prefered Borland ) etc... They are a company that is floundering in a major way IMHO. Even though I ended up with a 50% profit I'm very happy to put that behind me.
I really can't see how they can justify 2.4 billion for a company with a market cap of 782 mill. Just plain nuts if you ask me.
Re:Pascal/Delphi on Linux (Score:3)
Free Pascal can be found at http://www.freepascal.org
Two projects developping a GUI can be found at:
http://www.kcl.freepascal.org/
http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/
Re:Corel's Been Around a Long Time (Score:1)
Let me explain... (Score:1)
Most of their products are direct competitors to Corel products. The font technology would be nice but it's easier to just license it or get a font server that supports Type-1.
- NewTek (Lightwave, an awesome 3D production tool)
Corel is aiming at the office/desktop market. 3D production is probably too specialized.
- Sybase/Oracle (industrial strength DBMS)
They are getting Interbase from Borland/Inprise. Not as industrial strength, but not as hard to manage for the end user. And I don't think Oracle will be bought by anyone.
- Lotus (123, Notes)
Too late. IBM already bought them. Domino is available for Linux now. Corel has already demoed Quattro Pro on Linux.
If you don't see what is attractive in the product line, then you don't know much about Borland. Apparently you didn't know they had a database product, nor that Delphi is the #1 requested software package on Linux Journal's software Wishlist.
CNet's Link (Score:1)
You do the math (Score:1)
Borland, famous Linux company (Score:2)
Re:Demergers? (Score:1)
away practicaly all lines except for the mobile phones. (Nokia was known in the 80's of its rubber
boots...)
Re:Good news for Qt (Score:1)
Re:Canadian buys Yank (Score:2)
Cradle-to-the grave? (Score:1)
------------------------------------
Corel is a company that knows very well how to side-step Microsoft. They are non-competitive with Microsoft, as you say, because it would be stupid to do so directly, as Borland found out, twice, first with office tools and then with development tools. At any rate, that sidestepping paid out in the long run - not only did they survive "the big Windows Desktop and Devtool wars" without nearly as many bruises as Borland, they still have all the products they ever did, and they ended up (counting their own Linux distribution and now the Visibroker and Borland development tools) with a cradle-to-grave solution that involves absolutely no Microsoft products (or products from any other vendor for that matter).
In addition, it's hard to find any other company with such a large scope of products (from OS to Enterprise to Desktop) except for Sun Microsystems and possibly IBM on their Unix market. It's actually kind of amazing to see them actually pulling it off. I see a Michael Cowpland book on the horizon.
Since Delphi and C++ Builder) for Linux are not products that are out yet, but are in development now (albeit in early stages from what I've been able to extract from Inprise Linux people I've talked to), it will be very interesting to see if they will open source them (as they have behaved with their wine move and other things) to increase the rate of development while freeing some of their Delphi people to bugfix them. It might also interest you to know that the Delphi (and C++ Builder) on Linux team is a completely different team than the Delphi on Windows team (they hired all-linux developers to write the Delphi-Linux "Kylix" project).
In my opinion, Delphi suffered more when Borland lost over half of their Delphi team to Microsoft's Visual Basic team in the infamous "limousine lunch invitations" by "The Dead Borlanders Society" of Seattle - which prompted a lawsuit that was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount - than they are suffering here.
In any case Delphi in particular has already been suffering somewhat (in my opinion) from their concentration on Java development and CORBA/Java integration. The entropy is much higher from Delphi 3 to 5 (mainly because Delphi 3 to 4 was huge) than from Delphi 1through 3, even though 1 was 16-bit and 2 was a complete rewrite.
I'm definitely not saying that it will be a good thing for the next iteration of the product, but in the future, you'll have to remember that Unix people in general tend to care more about infrastructure than wizards. That change of view will probably be very healthy for the product in general, especially considering that the last two versions of Delphi have been feeling in general less stable and the do-it-yourself-with-code functionality is starting to go missing in newer features - so it's not just "don't use the wizard, it doesn't work right", it's "don't use the feature at all"... Delphi would be well served by a year of bugfix-only development in the manner of Sun's JDK1.3.
So all in all, I think it's actually "neutral" news from our perspective, at least until we see what the plans are (not that Delphi was a high priority in Borland anymore anyway). Now it would be good news if they GPLd Visibroker, which strategically is a smart thing to do (depending on how much revenue they're getting from it after factoring in all the Corel product revenue). Now = that = would save us some money.
Just my opinion from the Delphi front,
----------------
My opinions are mine of course, they don't represent the opinions of my employer, my cats, or slashdot
Re:Cradle-to-the grave? (Score:1)
>>Delphi (and C++ Builder) on Linux team is a
>>completely different team than the Delphi on
>>Windows team (they hired all-linux developers
>>to write the Delphi-Linux
>>"Kylix" project).
>Really? I hadn't noticed that.
>--Robert West
>--Delphi R&D
I'm sorry, seems like I have been misinformed at the last Borland Conference (where they gave all impression that the Linux team was a separate entity of "Real Linux guys" (whatever that meant) and they were doing the port). I apologize for that.
However, this begs the question. Will Delphi suffer stagnation during the next year due to the Linux port? Do you have more or less people/budget than you used to? Is the delay on the Delphi patch (which should address several important Corba/Midas issues for your enterprise customers) in any way related to this? As I wrote before, I'm not worried about the long term future of Delphi, but we still have deadlines and planning to do.
As a Linux user and enthusiast, I really like the fact that you are doing a port and all, but I don't want you guys to cover the front door and let the thief go in through the kitchen, if you know what I mean. Even if you are suffering from a shortage of resources to be able to release patches and such, as your clients, we kind of deserve to know, don't you agree?
Adobe's not for sale (Score:2)
Corel - Interesting (Score:2)
``This gives us a real end-to-end solution from tools all the way to the suite on Linux and gives us clearly the largest set of Linux technology from any company,''
So has anyone really used the corel dist in a dedicated server environment? (And if so why no just use Debian..) e.g. the "end-to-end" statement, from all that i've seen corel linux is more focused on business desktop users. This merger will certainly help them there, bring them more applications with which to _sell_ and/or package with their distribution.
-lanux
Dang. (Score:2)
---
Copeland Utilities (Score:3)
The newly acquired Norton/Symantec/Inprise products will be renamed as follows:
Copeland Commander
Copeland Guide
Copeland Ghost 5.2
Copeland Utilities
The new package artwork revealed shows Michael Copeland in a white dress shirt with arms crossed and at his side, his wife Marlen sporting a risqué dress made up of recycled XT motherboards.
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Re:I *really* don't understand this (Score:2)
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Why the drop? (Score:2)
Why stocks (CORL) drop when they buy out others (Score:2)
[note - I own INPR shares]
Basically, the market is reacting to the difficulty and expense in merging a different organization into the buyer, while realizing that the buyee may be worth more than they thought.
An example would be the continual wars between American Home Products (AHP), Pfizer (PFE), Abbot Labs (ABT), and such. My shares in Pfizer and Abbot Labs keep bouncing up and down as everyone gets into this continual takeover spin.
Some companies, such as Cisco Systems (CSCO) specialize in rapid turnarounds of other companies. My shares in this don't seem to fluctuate in response to news of a takeover by Cisco as a result, since the shareholders "know" that Cisco can absorb the other company at little cost and at maximum profit.
Pascal/Delphi on Linux (Score:3)
Remember that Visual Basic was the big thing that got Windows a critical mass of apps (and some would say that "critical" describes many VB apps perfectly). Pascal on Linux *could* become popular, depending on Borland/Corel's marketing strategy.
Corel has an office suite (Score:4)
As far as I know, all that Borland has which sells at all is some development tools, which are slowly getting hammered by MS in the Windows market.
Both companies have been unable to compete with MS on Windows. Both could potentially do well out of the Linux market. The new combined company must surely be relying on the Linux market for salvation.
WTF? (Score:4)
Borland has been around a long time and has a very large and successful product line. How long has Corel been around, and what does it have besides a relatively recent Linux distro? It would seem to me to make more sense the other way around, Borland buying Corel. Not saying it's good or bad...just weird.
I expect tomorrow Winzip (Niko Mak) will buy Microsoft in order to leverage their product.
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla [sourceforge.net]
Inprise traded at $4 for years, now at $14 (Score:2)
Prior to October, Inprise had been trading in the $4 - $6 range for over a year.
As a result, some investors may feel Inprise got the better end of the deal.
Database backend and ASP Server key to deal (Score:3)
Everyone in the press and here keep talking about the developer tools as the big addition to Corel's inventory, but I think it really the ASP Server software and InterBase database backend that are the real future. The developer tools combined with COREL's WINE enhancement will be a big benefit to the Linux community, but from a business standpoint, the one-two punch of client OS/Office Suite + Server OS/database backend is the real money maker. Add-in the benefits of Corel's relationship with ASP client developer GOJO, and Inprise Application Server, and you're talking a great business model.
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
Re:Corel stocks drops on the news (Score:2)
VA buying Corel would maybe make more sense. I suspect strongly that VA wants to make the big league (and I think they will) and Corel could help them achieve this. However having a distribution, tools, apps etc. tied to a single hardware vendor might not be such a good idea.
I think that (unlike RedHat), Corel is maybe aiming at being the M$ of Linux. Whether this would benefit or hinder Linux remains to be seen. I guess that now would be a great time to be a Linux startup with a good product - you could sell up to RedHat, Corel or VA and make a fortune.
HH
What will they open source? (Score:3)
Re:Little MS is born (Score:2)
Uhh, the primary problem with MS is that it uses it's dominance in diverse product lines so that it doesn't have to compete.
A "new, little" MS to compete with the "old, big" MS is exactly what we need.
-Jordan Henderson
Re:Corel has an office suite (Score:2)
- Corel Office WAS Borland Office and then it was Novel Office.
- It's easy to be one of the three most popular office suites when there are only three on the WinTel platform.
- Inprise/Borland has been having tough times ever since the purchase of Ashton Tate. THAT was their downfall. They paid far too much for a company that they could have bought for a song. They also kept *way* too many of the Former A-T Employees. Probably about 80 percent of the holdovers could have been dismissed - especially considering the fact that the only A-T products that were kept were Interbase and dBASE and most of the employees that were retained were support and marketing groups for the products that Borland dismissed.
- While true, both companies have been tromped on by MS (remember Novel bought the Borland Office who sold it to Corel - so the spanking goes back even further), Inprise has been working *extremely* hard to re-invent itself into a non-Windows company (JBuilder and the AppServer were just the first steps). And I *think* that Corel was taking a cue from their lead.
- And Borland tools *still* do *extremely* well in the Wintel market.
- BInprise and Corel have *both* been doing well in the Linux market (the problem is that most of the stuff so far has been free - JBuilder Foundation, for example). Now if they can just make this move as *profitable* as it has been *popular* we'll have a serious tools company.
These things being said.. I think this is great for Borland/Inprise/Whatever... I worry about what this will do for Corel...
Re:hm. (Score:2)
CIB...
Coders in Black...
Webcast (Score:2)
Probably (IMPO) the usual 'we're really jazzed we could get together.' stuff as opposed to analysis, but there you go.
________________
'There are no black cats, only black cat - shaped holes in the universe.'
-Arundhati Roy
This is good for Linux (Score:2)
Linux will benefit from having another "Powerhouse" distribution (in addition to Red Hat, Debian, and Slackware) to compete with the strong companies in the Microsoft world.
Corel will benefit because it is becoming a major player in the Linux game. Attaboy Corel. Keep bring Linux to the desktop.
Corel's Been Around a Long Time (Score:3)
In 1991 Corel bought the Ventura Software division from Xerox. Corel attempted to package several graphics package bundles, but their development efforts were hampered by both sales and programming obstacles. (The big programming obstacle was that Ventura Publisher was an assembly-language hack--no documentation, and the original programmer was long gone.)
Mike Cowpland (rhymes with "hope-land") of Corel has worked very hard at being a wheeler-dealer. He has bought a couple of well-regarded names for lots of Corel stock and very little cash--he bought WordPerfect (but not WordPerfect's payroll) from Novell for a lot of stock but only about $10 million in cash in the mid-90s. In this transaction he's "buying" Borland with newly-issued stock and no cash. (This transaction dilutes the shareholders interests by 44%--but doesn't cost Corel a dime.)
(FWIW: I used to be a tech support forum sysop on Ventura Software's CompuServe forum. I used to do technical illustration of children's books using Corel Draw.)
Both a Linux AND a Windoze play? (Score:2)
Is Corel also hoping to take a bigger piece of the post-DoJ Windows software market?