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Comment Re:GMOs feed over a billion people (Score 5, Insightful) 419

You're not getting it. It's not about the absolute rightness or wrongness of GMO . It's about the fact that a very significant portion of the people WANT GMO labeling.

People also want a lot of things I could do without, but so what. Who am i? Who are you? Who is Monsanto to decide we can't know true facts about the things we put in our bodies???

The worst disasters in history haven't been because people had too much information some of which was useless. The worst disasters come about because some small segment of our population thinks it knows what's good for the rest of us and tries to impose it's will on us. So that's shit like Vietnam and all kinds of imperialism generally. People want this- it means something to them. People also want kosher shit because it MEANS something to them. People want country of origin labeling for meat for GOOD reason- because some nations practice poor CJD defense and some don't. People want dolphin free tuna because it MEANS something to them and their value system. Stop telling people what should and should not be significant to them.

Just. Stop it.

Also, as a matter of fact, you don't know that all present and future GMO products are not unsafe in ways people fear. I know what because I looked into it and decided for myself that the risk it low, but by no means zero. By no means.

Comment And oh yeah (Score 2) 419

If you want thew ability to distinguish GMO from non-GMO in your grocery store then you better act fast because Obama is about to try to ram through the Trans Pacific Partnership which will permit the WTO to ban GMO labeling the way it bans meat country-of -origin labeling and dolphin-safe labels:

Letter excerpt from

Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro (CT-3), Ranking Member of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, to United States Trade Representative, Ambassador Ron Kirk,

full letter:

http://delauro.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=406:-delauro-food-safety-critical-issue-in-upcoming-trade-talks&catid=7:2011-press-releases&Itemid=23

First, past FTAs incorporate the WTO's sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) and technical barriers to trade rules, which are deeply problematic. These rules set ceilings on signatory countries' domestic food safety standards. As a result, WTO panels have ruled against the U.S. meat country-of-origin labeling requirements and voluntary dolphin-safe tuna labels in challenges brought by other WTO countries. We must learn from the record of WTO implementation and modify the food safety-related rules of U.S. trade pacts to best protect the public health, starting with a TPP FTA.

Contact your Congressperson right NOW! :

http://www.exposethetpp.org/

Comment Re:GMOs feed over a billion people (Score 2, Insightful) 419

What is to be gained by informing consumers when they just can't really understand the issues! This is what you're saying and not even in other words- that's just what you're saying. It's disgusting. I can see why you posted AC.

It's called having faith in democracy and the ability of the polity to sort out issues. If that doesn't sound reasonable to you, then why not head off to N. Korea where the leaders think just like you do.

Comment Re:TPP will make it illegal (Score 4, Informative) 419

Yeah you're wrong. It will ban GMO labeling , country of origin labeling and many other of the same types of consumer information that, people think is important to them (which I actually don't except that other people do want these things and they have the right to know )

Letter form Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro (CT-3), Ranking Member of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, to the United States Trade Representative, Ambassador Ron Kirk:

from: http://delauro.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=406:-delauro-food-safety-critical-issue-in-upcoming-trade-talks&catid=7:2011-press-releases&Itemid=23

First, past FTAs incorporate the WTOâ(TM)s sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) and technical barriers to trade rules, which are deeply problematic. These rules set ceilings on signatory countriesâ(TM) domestic food safety standards. As a result, WTO panels have ruled against the U.S. meat country-of-origin labeling requirements and voluntary dolphin-safe tuna labels in challenges brought by other WTO countries. We must learn from the record of WTO implementation and modify the food safety-related rules of U.S. trade pacts to best protect the public health, starting with a TPP FTA.

The FDA has also engaged in extensive harmonization of food safety standards, as required by the WTO SPS rules and our past FTAs. If a TPP FTA is to include food safety harmonization, then it must ensure existing U.S. standards are not weakened. I believe this should include requiring that harmonization may only be conducted on the basis of raising standards toward the best standards of any signatory country and that, with respect to the United States, such international-standard setting should provide the public an opportunity to comment while maintaining an open and transparent process.

In addition, the past FTA model includes the establishment of new SPS committees to speed up implementation of mechanisms to facilitate increased trade volumes, including âoeequivalenceâ determinations. The equivalence rule requires the United States to permit imports of meat, poultry and now possibly seafood products that do not necessarily meet U.S. food safety standards. I firmly believe that all food sold to American consumers must be required to meet U.S. safety standards, and that a TPP FTA should not include equivalence rules as the basis for the United States accepting food imports.

Finally, past FTAs allow for private enforcement of extensive foreign investor rights. Under these rules, foreign food corporations operating within the United States are empowered to demand compensation from the U.S. government in foreign tribunals established under the United Nations and World Bank if U.S. regulatory actions undermine their expected future profits. Even when the United States successfully defends against such attacks, such as in the NAFTA investor-state case brought by the Canadian Cattlemen for Fair Trade over the U.S. ban on imports of live Canadian cattle after the discovery of a case of mad cow disease in Canada, the initial filing of the challenge has a chilling effect on policymaking and the U.S. government must spend millions on a legal defense. Accordingly, I believe a TPP FTA must not include investor-state rules that would allow corporations to weaken U.S. food safety in foreign tribunals thereby unnecessarily placing American consumers at risk.

The food safety issues raised by the TPP FTA negotiations are expansive and in many instances already controversial. Failure to deal with these issues during the negotiations will only create more opposition to a prospective agreement. I therefore urge you to act in the interest of public health and maintain the United Statesâ(TM) strong leadership on food safety by making the health of Americans our top priority in this weekâ(TM)s negotiations in Chicago and beyond.

But I understand why you are confused. The TPP is so secret that the only document we have is what was leaked on Wikileaks. Congresspeople who want to read it have to schedule an appointment, enter a room without an aide, and can bring no writing implement or paper to take notes. There's more:

from:

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/10/4/a_corporate_trojan_horse_obama_pushes

JUAN GONZÃLEZ: Well, Lori, about that secrecy, even members of Congress have been severely limited in what they can learn, and that's only after the revelations about the total secrecy that this whole process began with. Could you talk about what members of Congress are allowed to know and how?

LORI WALLACH: Well, what's really important for people to know - and this gets to what you started out with about Fast Track. Congress has exclusive constitutional authority over trade. It's kind of like the Boston Tea Party hangover. After having a king just impose tariffs, in that case on tea, the founders said, "We need to put all things about trade, international commerce, in the hands of Congress, the most diffuse part of the elected representation, not the executive, the king." So Congress has all this authority. They're supposed to be exclusively in control. But until this June, they were not even allowed to see the draft text.

And it was only after a big, great fuss was kicked up by a lot of members - 150 of them wrote last year - that finally members of Congress, upon request for the particular chapter, can have a government administration official bring them a chapter. Their staff is thrown out of the room. They can't take detailed notes. They're not supposed to talk about what they saw. And they can, without staff to help them figure out what the technical language is, look at a chapter. This is in contrast to, say, even what the Bush administration did. The last time we had one of these mega-NAFTA expansion attempts was the Free Trade Area of the Americas. And in that instance, in 2001, that whole draft text was released to the public by the U.S. government on the official government websites. So, this is extraordinary secrecy, and members of Congress aren't supposed to tell anyone what they've read. So, for instance, you know, Alan Grayson, who was one of the guys who helped to get the text released, Alan Grayson said, "I can tell you it's very bad for the future of America. I just can't tell you why." That's obscene.

This would rewrite wide swaths of our laws. And again, it's mainly not about trade. So, if we have this agreement in effect, for instance, it would be a big push for fracking. Now you would say, "Why fracking?" Because it doesn't allow us to have bans on liquid natural gas exports. Or, if this were in effect, we couldn't ensure the safety of the food we feed our families. We have to import, for instance, fish and shrimp that we know, from the limited inspection that's done, is extremely dangerous from certain kinds of growing ponds that are contaminated, etc., in some of the TPP countries. Or, for instance, some of the financial reforms where the banksters were finally regulated would be rolled back. All of this, and it would be privately enforceable by certain foreign corporations.

Comment TPP will make it illegal (Score 5, Informative) 419

Comment Good I hope they do it (Score 1) 221

Let's not get lost here. We need and want the NSA to do it's legitimate job in protecting the nation against terrorists and people to whom the idea of "mass extinction" is just a shorter way to get their god to sort us all into our respective eternal bins.

The whole issue with the NSA eavesdropping is the potential for , as Snowden admirably put it, "turnkey tyranny". That's not nothing, that's not such an unlikely result of this kind of power being applied to the world's population that we don't have to worry about it. We do have to worry about it and we have to turn them back from the path they're on before it becomes more than a hypothetical worry.

But we WANT them to get a quantum computer and every other thing under the sun they can get. Yes, absolutely we do, even as we do the work that needs to be done to make sure our liberties stay intact.

Comment Re:The UK is just a fascist regime (Score 2) 234

Yeah, WTF are you talking about? Do you even know? I am talking about the UK govt. classifying people like David Miranda and the papers like the Guardian as "terrorists" and you're talking about chemtrails. Then your buddys' are jumping in talking about chemtrails. What is this, a UK sponsored hijacking of my point?

Go fucking fuck your fucking selves. The word "terrorist" can't be used to describe "anyone who pisses us off on matters of national security or business " or it will lose all meaning and take the faith of the population in government with it.

The government has to protect it's reputation and deal with complex situations honestly if it's going to be respected.

Those parts of the security apparatus who think they can rule nations and their people by fear and intimidation instead of representing their legitimate interests are dangerous to any nation that permits them to have access to power.

Comment RTFA (Score 2, Interesting) 385

I disagree. If you read RTFAs that cover this topic, he was clearly very prescient. His Big Mistake was to consider that the people who Run The Show would have any interest in elevating humanity so as to achieve Asimov's own egalitarian vision of universal equality wrt to material well being, leisure time and general wealth. Given when he wrote , this was universally just accepted as The Goal of Society.

We now know better. We now understand that males will attempt to create and sustain as much of a material differential as they possibly can between themselves and other males for the purpose of creating, in the minds of fertile females, a perception of being "better" than other males.

This is, at core, what drives inequality. It's sexual competition where "fitness" is measured, as it is in every other species, as the ability to control resources OVER AND ABOVE the amount of resources the average specimen controls. This is what "being attractive" amounts to, for males, or at least that part of "being attractive" which is under their control so far.

So Asimov's thinking just wasn't well informed on this matter the way it was on technical matters. That's hardly to his discredit.

Comment Re:The American Legal System's Double Standard (Score 1) 199

Right. This is what happened with the financial meltdown, exactly. There were few prosecutions and none of the household -name people - Jamie Dimon Lloyd Blankfein, Angelo Mozilo, Richard Fuld, Bear Stearnsâ(TM)s Jimmy Cayne, Merrill Lynchâ(TM)s Stan Oâ(TM)Neal, Citigroupâ(TM)s Chuck Prince all of these people are untouchable even though we lost literally a trillion dollars and more during the meltdown and entire lifetime retirements of people were destroyed . Eric Holder and his justice department looks and looks but golly! just can't find a gosh-darn thing he can charge them with.

It's a joke. A sick sick joke and made me lose a LOT of respect for the whole process of criminal justice. This is not a nation of laws, it's a nation of money and a nation of men when it comes right down to it. Same thing with the Transpacific Partenership- people with money and connections are literally usurping the environmental, labor , patent, copyright and other laws of nations. Laws which were arrived at through the respective societys' democratic process.

This is how empires fail They overreach. They heedless impose the will of mere individuals - or in this case corporations- upon people who disapprove of what they're doing by a ratio, in this nation at least , of 300 million to one.

This is how societies collapse. This is the steady rip rip of the social contract between the government and it's people that is not forgotten but instead goes underground, into people's living memories only later to emerge and play a decisive roll in the dissolution of that society. The government is known by all, in this case left and right and center, to be corrupt, unresponsive, indifferent to its people and serving only the needs of its elite, which are endlessly craven and grasping and greedy. People are cynical, but that's just the outward tell of their inner states.

Then something ecological happens directly owing to the untrammeled greed of the 1% and the society goes down all at once. This is not speculative, it's happened time and time again. To the Anasazi of the U.S. Southwest, to the Classic Lowland Maya, to the inhabitants of Easter Island and some other Polynesian societies, to the Greenland Norse, to the Mycenean Greece, and to the Western Roman Empire.

Hate to present a totalizing narrative which "explains all things" but it's not just my opinion that this is coming; it's the Pentagon's and the NSA's also:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/14/climate-change-energy-shocks-nsa-prism

If the Pentagon and the NSA and Obama had any sense at all, they'd prioritize climate legislation and start treating the manufacturers and purveyors of climate change denial like the threat to civilization they literally are.

Then they'd go after the deprivations of the 1% - typical example the contents of the TPP- which are literally tearing the social fabric of this nation apart.

https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

http://www.exposethetpp.org/

https://www.citizen.org/TPP

Environmental disaster as the trigger to societal collapse:

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/10/3632.full

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed

\http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2003/07/17/2858655.htm

Comment The UK is just a fascist regime (Score 0, Flamebait) 234

Sorry. Big anglophile here which is to say fascinated by "Engla-land" its history and it's people. Descended therefrom also. Doesn't stop em from seeing that this UK government is a fascist regime. Specifically

They have sought to turn the act of journalism into a "terrorist" (their word not mine) enterprise and consider journalists to BE terrorists. This is such a sad and sick distortion of this word it use itself threatens to undermine the population's faith and credence in legitimate authority and concern with national security.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/11/03/332673/outrage/

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/11/02-2

Comment Re:We need a new government... (Score 1) 462

This is how things are. The only real question is are you going to advocate in some fashion for what you believe. I writ my Congressional representative about once a month. I give some money to independent media outlets I think are worthwhile. I talk to my friends and acquaintances about what's going on. I share my thoughts online. Meh, that's what I have time to do except for the global warming issue, where I am more active .

Comment Re:What PETA doesn't want to understand (Score 2) 370

Exactly. We learned this at age 13 in conservation camp. They showed us a film where they tried to heliocopter drop food to starving deer in the dead of winter (more deer came, there was never enough food, then the wolves picked up their collective scent) as a demonstration that, finally no matter what, there's nothing humanly doable about nature-induced animal suffering and starvation in the wild.

like the outdoors but can't hunt myself because can't bring myself to shoot a living fluffy doe-eyed thing that's never done me a wrong.

Glad everyone's not me.

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