TiVo Wins Permanent Injunction Against EchoStar

ZenFodderBoy writes "It's official! Judge Folsom entered his ruling today granting TiVo nearly $90 million in damages, plus granting a permanent injunction calling for the disabling of nearly all of EchoStar's DVRs within the next 30 days. EchoStar's motion to stay the injunction pending appeal was denied. Additionally, the judge reserves the right to grant additional damages in the future, so treble damages may still be coming. Excellent news for TiVo!"

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Echostar = Dish Network's parent company.

More informative Reuters article

[sessamoid]

EchoStar must disable DVRs, judge rules [reuters.com]

Re:this isn't that bad...

[muindaur]

No they don't, the whole purpose of patent law allows for a developing party to be the only one allowed to make a certain innovatinve product so they can recover development costs and make a profit off of the idea. Then after a certain period of time they cannot receive funds from companies that wish to develop a product that does the same thing.

This helps encourage innovation by protecting the innovators from competition that could prevent them from recovering development costs. So in the end it does help the consumer because while at first only a few may be able pay for the cost of the product it shows to other companies that it is a product many more would be willing to buy.

Re:This will do nothing but harm the consumer &

[fujiman]

Echostar played fast and loose with Tivo's IP. It's great that you seem to think Tivo is owed money, but it's Echostar that decided it was worth the risk. Echostar's customers don't have Echostar DVRs because Echostar thought they could get away with something and didn't. I don't see how Tivo takes the fall for that.

Re:The Point

[evilviper]

Remind me to never buy something that can be taken from me...remotely.

I could have told you that years ago. That's the main reason I put together my own DVR about 4 years ago, rather than buying (and hacking) a Tivo or ReplayTV unit.

It has worked out more wonderfully than I could have imagined. The 1 week of taming Linux TV-tuner modules looks so insignificant in hindsight, and is really a one-time thing, as I've set-up DVRs for others in under an hour (each).

No messy, stupid tricks or hacks needed to get my video over to my computer to edit, reencode, and burn it. No posibility of my viewing habits being tracked by anyone. No posibility of being unable to get TV listings in the distant future. No problems installing as many hard drives as I want. No hassling with tech support and Fedex (or buying a whole new system) when the power supply goes out... etc.

All I need is to plug-in any HDTV tuner card, and I'm ready to keep this same box going for the next 100 years, potentially.

Re:This will do nothing but harm the consumer &

[ID10T5]

...but without DVR I am back to VHS.

There are many cable companies that now provide DVR capabilities with their service (usually part of a digital cable package -- gives a lot of the same channels available from Dish, DirecTv, etc.). I can't comment on the pricing because I don't use our local provider's DVR service, but I imagine it is comparable to what you're paying for Dish PVR.

Re:Quick ?

[tonyquan]

DirecTV is actually a TiVo licensee. Up until recently, all DirecTV DVRs actually ran TiVo software. Three months ago, TiVo signed a deal with DirecTV to extend the licensing arrangement until 2009. TiVo will continue to service the ~2 million DirecTV DVRs based on TiVo software, and both parties specifically agreed not to sue each other over patents as happened with Dish Network/Echostar.

http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_85.html [tivo.com]

DISABLE YOUR AUTOMATIC UPDATES

[speedlaw]

All Echostar users should go to the setup menu now and "disable automatic updates". It's a pity that updates, which used to mean improvements, can now mean less functionality. Go to your box(es) now, and disable all update check boxes !

Re:This will do nothing but harm the consumer &

[cdrudge]

The trial judge did not award treble damages to Tivo because Echostar sought outside counsel that, as it turned out, incorrectly told them that their DVR would not be infringing on Tivo's right. There was no "playing fast and loose" here. Echostar did exactly what any company should do, but still got burned in the process.

Re:DISABLE YOUR AUTOMATIC UPDATES

[RevDobbs]

What good is that going to do when they stop sending out the show listings?

Re:Quick ?

[computechnica]

In the settings of my DVR there is a menu that lets you disable automatic downloaded updates, I plan on setting it to that tonight. YIKES!!

Re:/. is an editorial factory

[MyNameIsEarl]

DirecTV hasn't provided TiVo's to customers for most of this year, they have their own inhouse brand DVR now the R15. They still support their customer with the TiVo's however.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Win for Tivo - Lose for Customers

[dwandy]

No such luck. ...

RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AGREEMENT [dishnetwork.com]

C. DISH Network reserves the rights to alter software, features and/or functionality in your DISH Network receivers,

D. DISH Network's PVR/DVR Products allow you to record programming in digital format. ...[snip]... DISH Network does not guarantee access to or recording of any particular programming. ...[snip]... DISH Network may, in its sole discretion, add, change or remove features of its PVR/DVR Products and, upon notice to you, introduce or change fees for the use of PVR/DVR Product features. DISH Network will notify you of any change that is within its reasonable control....[snip]...

I guess making it so it doesn't record anything is just a change of "features"... it's still a clock, right?

Re:A stupid judgment that penalises customers...

[acklenx]

The true purpose of patents is in fact, to spur innovation... not to build monopolies.

While true that the purpose is innovation, they very single and solitary way that patents foster such innovation is through [time] limited monopolies on that specific innovation. And I have no problem with that as long as what you've been awarded patent is worthy (truly novel and new).

I think a more equitable judgement ought to be along the lines... like, Echostar to pay TiVo the requisite license money...

This can still happen. And it's very likely to happen as well, but under the free market principal of "Tivo owns the rights and can set their price, others including Echostar can pay that price if they think it's worth it. If Echostar doesn't agree to that price, so be it... unless Tivo decides that it would rather lower the price to keep from losing easy money...". This, I believe, is the way the system was designed to work. (I just don't know that Tivo should have the patent in the first place).

What if a patent violation happened in a medicinal drug? Patients must vomit already ingested medicines and die?

No, and you don't have to unwatch any shows that you watched delayed either. You just can't continue to do so (no more refills on you Rx).

Re:TiVo has gone the way of the new SCO

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you should actually read some info about Tivo before spouting off about it like that.

A) Tivo DOES have the ability to record only first-run episodes of a show, as well as All episodes. It also has the ability to only record episodes you haven't recorded in the last 28 days.

B) There is NO such clause in any contract from Tivo that states if you watch something you are contractually obligated to pay for service for a year. A normal monthly subscription is just that - monthly. If I don't want the service next month, I stop paying. It's that simple. The only contract remotely close to what you are talking about is some of the newer subscription options where you sign a contract for a year of service - just like cell-phone contracts. Do cell phone companies lock you in for a year because you text-messaged someone? I think not. Tivo contracts work the same way.

The whole reason this litigation took place was that Echostar did NOTHING new, just copied Tivo as close as they could. That is why they are being punished.

Move on, troll. Stop spreading misinformation.

What EchoStar has to say about it...

[djbckr]

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/presski t/press/index.shtml [dishnetwork.com]

Re:This won't be good for tivo in the long run

[Dun Malg]

AFAIK no one reads patents to advance their own tech ... creating a product that infringes on someone else's patent, where they can show that you read their patent results in a greater reward (penalty) from the judge... so the lawyers tell the engineers to explicitly not read existing patents when they build something new (to them)...

No, you're confusing copyright with patents, I think. For example, Compaq engineers working to black-box reverse engineer the IBM-PC BIOS were specifically not permitted to see the IBM microcode. This ensured that no copying happened, even inadvertently. This is an iron-clad defense against a charge of copyright infringement. If you've never even seen it, it's impossible for you to make a copy. With patents, you need to see what's patented when designing a competing product in order to implement a non-infringing product. There does not exist an "ignorance" mitigation for patent infringement.

Re:Why "host" anything in the U.S.?

[_Sharp'r_]

The location of this judgement is a popular one for patent trolls, since juries in this area side with patent holders about 40% more than the "average" US jury does.

Of course, this particular injunction was immediately stopped by a higher court:

EchoStar Announces Federal Circuit Blocks Tivo Injunction

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 18, 2006--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit:

"We are pleased that this morning, the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C. temporarily blocked an injunction issued by a Texas Court, while it considers a longer-term stay of that injunction.

As a result of the stay EchoStar can continue to sell, and provide to consumers, all of its digital video recorder models. We continue to believe the Texas decision was wrong, and should be reversed on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future alleged infringement."

About EchoStar

EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) serves more than 12.46 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service.

CONTACT: EchoStar Communications Corporation
Kathie Gonzalez, 720-514-5351
[e-mail]

SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation

Re:/. is an editorial factory

[Grimoire]

My S2 Tivos haven't been hooked up to a phone line since the day I bought them.

Before networking was officially supported, there was a dial-prefix string you could use that would enable basic ethernet support via USB.

Now networking is officially supported in later releases and you don't need the dial-prefix, just a network adapter.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[leob]

The injunction has been blocked: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854& p=irol-newsArticle&ID=897186&highlight= [corporate-ir.net]