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Mac Pro, Mac OS X Virtual Desktops Announced at WWDC 647

Posted by timothy
from the and-many-more dept.
haym37 writes "Of the many announcements yet to come at WWDC, the first is the announcement of the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro contains two Intel Xeons, up to 3 GHz, and is supposed to be 1.6x to 2.1x the speed of the PowerMac G5 quad. It can hold up to 2 TB of internal storage and up to 16 GB of memory. The graphics card can be up to a Radeon x1900 or an FX4500. The case will be the same as the PowerMac." MacRumors.com is providing running coverage from the floor (Note: "[U]pdates will be automatically inserted at the top of the updates section. Do not reload manually."), including another announcement that OS X will include virtual desktops. What a great idea!
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Mac Pro, Mac OS X Virtual Desktops Announced at WWDC

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  • Minor Quibble... (Score:5, Informative)

    by e4g4 (533831) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:31PM (#15860372)
    The case will be the same as the PowerMac

    The outside of the case is almost the same as the G5 case...the inside is completely different, and has a pretty sweet setup for the drive bays, not to mention the 8 ram slots and room for a full length graphics card.
  • Apple pages (Score:5, Informative)

    by godawful (84526) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:35PM (#15860398)
    apples page on leopard is up here [apple.com]

    and the mac pros are here [apple.com]

    i noticed nothing was said about the finder.. shame.
  • by cheezycrust (138235) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:38PM (#15860428)
    The 30 inch Cinema Display has it's price reduced from $2499 to $1999. I don't think this was said on the keynote, but you can see it on the website.
  • Re:I agree (Score:4, Informative)

    by Y-Crate (540566) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:40PM (#15860445)
    Imagine that... quick access to your applications, including recently used ones... Sounds an awful lot like a "Start Button" to me.
    The Apple Menu has done this since at least System 7. This simply appears to be a better implementation of what they had long before Win95 appeared.
  • Full Write-up (Score:2, Informative)

    by robizzle (975423) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:46PM (#15860470)
    There is a good full write-up of the WWDC here: http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/07/live-from-wwdc- 2006-steve-jobs-keynote/ [engadget.com]
  • by also-rr (980579) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:46PM (#15860473) Homepage
    Dashboard sucks up WAY too much CPU (especially when starting)

    Are you sure it's Dashboard and not the widgets? I installed SuperKaramba and a few changes [revis.co.uk] to the widget files dropped CPU usage from 30%+ to under 1%.

    If the widgets for Dashboard are also written by non-programmers they may be suffering from the same problems of polling too frequently. Why on earth do you need to update a display of how much hard disk space there is available every 100ms anyway!
  • Re:FP? (Score:4, Informative)

    by INeededALogin (771371) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:52PM (#15860520) Journal
    Slashdot moderators obviously don't know what on-topic is. Please read [wikipedia.org]

    Let me write a paper to explain why this is on-topic(*sigh*).

    While the summary of the Article states what Apple is adding, it specifically points fun at Virtual Desktops. The link for Virtual Desktops goes off to the Wikipedia page which shows us tons of applications and even information that Apple just announced this(go Wikipedia). So, the parent is saying... why the heck are we giving Apple a hardtime for implementing Virtual Desktops when "our" open-sourced version of OSX(GNUStep) have not been updated nearly as aggresively with the new functionality.

    This is a very relevant post because this is insightful in regards to the Article Summary. How can we say, "thats a great idea... point to existing example", without saying... "man... i wish the community would implement some of these other things in OSX such as Spotlight, Dashboard, Expose, etc etc etc". I wish that GNUStep could at least compile my Cocoa applications.
  • by sp67 (159134) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:55PM (#15860550)
    VMS? Try RSX-11M - that's mid '70s for you young boys and gals.
    Yup, everytime you saved a file you'd get a new version; if I saved file.ext, I actually got something like file.ext;17, and accessing file.ext would get the latest version, in this case 17. You had commands to purge files or entire directories - that is, delete everything but the latest version.
    And this at a time where a 40MB hard-disk was a beast the size of a washing machine. I can't believe I had to wait about 30 years to get this nice little feature back... oh wait, we just got a preview, I'll have to wait a little longer to get my hands on it.
  • by cyfer2000 (548592) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:59PM (#15860580) Journal
    • 2 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB [Add $150]
    • 3 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB [Add $300]
    • ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI) [Add $350]
    • 4 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB [Add $450]
    • NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI) [Add $1650]
    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore?family=MacPro [apple.com]
  • Re:Photocopied! (Score:5, Informative)

    by mblase (200735) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:07PM (#15860640)
    About time with the virtual windows! Took them long enough...all other major *nix based window managers have them. Makes their "photocopying" comment at WWDC seem double edged, eh?

    In all fairness, Leopard's Spaces implementation [apple.com] looks like a quantum improvement on other virtual desktop managers I've used. (Granted, it's been awhile since I tried any since I was never very satisfied.) None of the other VDMs I recall were quite "Mac-like" enough--by that I don't mean flashy and animated, but easy to use and understand.

    They borrowed some design ideas from Exposé, it looks like; you can view all four of your desktops at once; you can drag-and-drop windows from one to the other; and they all use the same Dock instead of using different Docks for each desktop, which is the one thing I always wanted.

    See also Leopard's Time Machine [apple.com]. There's a dozen ways you could make this kind of backup-restore tool just as functional; you could probably make it flashy and animated a dozen different ways as well. Leopard's approach uses just enough flashiness to make it easy-to-use.
  • by vought (160908) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:18PM (#15860720)
    Timemachine? Gee Windows XP has had that feature for quite a while...


    Apple's appears to be a versioning file system, rather than a "save everything in a hidden partition every x days" hack.

    But thanks for letting us know how great XP is.
  • by nuggetman (242645) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:21PM (#15860734) Homepage
    Time Machine != System Restore

    Time Machine is more akin to the Backup.app offered with .mac than Windows System Restore
  • by wispoftow (653759) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:30PM (#15860821)
    Perhaps the most important feature (for me) is Objective C 2, with garbage collection!!! This should really help with the tedious retain/release counting that has kept me from trying to do much with Mac programming.
  • by MindStalker (22827) <mindstalker.gmail@com> on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:41PM (#15860916) Journal
    Well it is like shadow copy on 2003, which provides a feature called previous versions. Previous versions stores bitwise (when the file is saved via bit changes otherwise filewise) changes at set time intervals (sadly not on every save) to all files up to a certain MB storage limit you set. You then can backtrack and see what your files looked like on such an such date in the past.
  • by masklinn (823351) <slashdot.org@PER ... .net minus punct> on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:55PM (#15861011)

    Failed, Time Machine is a per-file backup and versioning for every single user file.

    The only things that "have it" are fully journaling filesystems and full-blown version control systems (think Subversion).

    System Restore doesn't come even close.

  • Re:I agree (Score:3, Informative)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:02PM (#15861052)

    Okay I don't know what level of expertise you have with non-Windows OS's so I'll assume none and go from there. Say you want to launch photoshop. In Windows you go to the start menu or the Windows explorer, navigate to it and run it. To do this you use the mouse. It takes more time than you think, since when you're using the mouse, you concentration is focused. If you actually watch someone else do it, this takes a little time, but nothing to unreasonable, unless they actually have to hunt through menus to find it, like they sometimes do. For the few programs you use most frequently, say top 10, Windows has them right there for you. And maybe you remember the locations of the next ten most common. Then there are the ones you rarely use which you actually have to hunt for in the start menu, maybe in Start->Programs->Utilities->Ubisoft->Monkey.exe or something.

    On OS X the search feature is fast enough that it is easier to just use it for everything including launching most applications. Sort of the way Google is faster than trying 3 URLs before finding some company's fairly obvious domain name. You hit cmd-space and type the first few letters of the application or file name. then you use the arrow keys to select it (usually the top item) and hit enter. The whole thing is really, really fast when you try it, much faster than using the start menu in Windows. The recent items feature refines this slightly, so that if you have say 15 images beginning with the same letters, it will pull them up, but put the most recent ones on top. This is not the most recent 10 items you've used, but the most recent 10 items beginning with whatever letters you entered. The granularity and the interface mechanism are the difference.

    All in all this is pretty cool, unless you don't have any idea what the name or contents of the file or program you are looking for are, then you have to fall back to using it like a traditional search (with content) or use the hierarchical directories for organization. I personally find it useful to organize my files and folders in a start menu like way, for when I want to launch that audio editing app whose name I don't recall at all. Then I just right-click on the icon on my dock and navigate to Audio and select it. Both methods are better for different instances, but they are not the same thing by any means. I hope that helps to clarify it for you.

  • by BlueStraggler (765543) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:11PM (#15861106)

    the whole "time machine" which is really just a versioning system from the looks of it. VMS had that years and years ago, it's nothing new.

    VMS versioning was a "never overwrite" system, not a real versioning system as we understand the term today. Time Machine fuses the concept of a modern versioning system with automated backup and recovery. I've been doing something similar to Time Machine on my Mac Powerbook, using CVS to make remote backups of certain working directories to a server, which lets me recover not only by date, but also recover deleted files (which VMS versioning does not, or at least did not in the early 90s, last I used it). Time Machine promises to make this slicker because it autocommits (no more losing intermediate versions between commits), and makes rollbacks a lot easier.

    My main concern is if you are doodling around in some package like iPhoto that auto-saves your changes, and you are making all sorts of experimental crops and enhancements to photos and then undoing them, is it going to save every single one? That's going to gobble a lot of disk space.

    The other concern is that my homegrowm Time Machine doubles as a fileshare between multiple computers. That is, I can push data into the backup from one machine, and restore it on another, and can even go both ways simultaneously, relying on CVS to detect and resolve conflicts. I don't expect Time Machine will have this functionality.

  • Another Time Machine (Score:3, Informative)

    by CODiNE (27417) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:13PM (#15861119) Homepage
    XCode 3.0 let's you "rewind" programs while debugging. No more stepping through and accidentally stepping over a point. Just hit rewind and go back o the part of the program you missed. Huh! Guess it's dumping everything to disk while you run it. Also the Xray program seems kinda neat, shows your application performance sorta like it was running in GarageBand, you can hit different spots and see what was going on right there. The screen at the bottom is hard to see, but that's Xray stepping into a spot on an App named PictureFrame. XCode 3.0 [apple.com]
  • by BDaniels (13031) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:19PM (#15861143) Homepage
    It doesn't appear to be a filesystem, just a backup app:
    http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.ht ml [apple.com]

    "Time Machine will back up every night at midnight, unless you select a different time from this menu."

    That's not a versioning file system, alas.

  • by ditoa (952847) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:31PM (#15861229)
    Forgot paying $100 for it, request a free SBS 2003 trial from Microsoft and it comes with a fully licensed version of Outlook 2003. The disc is an actual retail copy. I don't know why it comes free but it does and it isn't restricted in anyway afaik.
  • by MindStalker (22827) <mindstalker.gmail@com> on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:32PM (#15861231) Journal
    FROM BSD license

    * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
    * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
    * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

    They didn't, thus they threw away the license.
  • by Angostura (703910) on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:02PM (#15861494)
    Yes, you are right. And contrary to some other comment in the discussion, this is not simple System Restore. Instead the Vista stuff appears to be a user-file-focussed system built on the existing Windows XP/Server system.

    There is a good Ars description of it here: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060730-7383 .html [arstechnica.com]

    Here's an excerpt:

    With Windows Vista, the operating system will make "shadow" (that is, backup) copies of files and folders for users who have "System Protection" enabled (the default setting). The feature will be called Previous Versions, and will be accessible via the right-click properties menu as "Restore previous versions."

    The utility will show multiple versions of a file throughout a limited history and users will be able to restore, delete, or copy those versions. The service is configured to monitor modifications to files up to and including the latest "restore point," although this behavior could be modified by the time Vista ships.


    I thought at the time, "that looks quite nifty" despite the rather negative spin from Ars. Glad to see that Leopard will have something similar, hopefully superior.
  • developer discount (Score:2, Informative)

    by Scudsucker (17617) on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:09PM (#15861556) Homepage Journal
    If you're planning on buying a loaded tower, consider getting a devloper membership just to get the hardware discount, even if you can get the usual student discount. IIRC, the Student membership is $99 and the Select is $500 (I'd check but that page is down). For a tower with max out memory, hard drive space, 3 ghz Xeons, dual 30" displays, a Quadro gfx card, 16 gigs of memory, a couple extras and OS X Server:

    Regular price: $18,332
    Student price: $16,003
    Devloper price: $15,144

    So by getting a Select membership for $500, you save over $2,600 over the regular price and $1,800 over the student price.
  • by netwiz (33291) on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:33PM (#15861707) Homepage
    yah, but it's not going to swap to disk unless there's memory pressure causing it. Add more RAM. Relaunching the widgets would take just as long, as the APIs have to get either swapped back in, or reloaded from libraries on disk. Either way is slow; if what you're doing makes you bump up against the edge of RAM, then you probably need more.
  • by mrchaotica (681592) * on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:41PM (#15861777)
    The US$300 models typically have analog VGA only.

    Actually, I've found several at that price that have DVI. Such as this one: Samsung 205BW [outpost.com] (hopefully the link works).

  • by dfghjk (711126) on Monday August 07, 2006 @06:01PM (#15861945)
    ...and VMS from the 70's. Filesystems have had file versioning for many decades. You are WAY off.
  • Re:Photocopied! (Score:3, Informative)

    by nitehorse (58425) <clee@c133.org> on Monday August 07, 2006 @07:36PM (#15862571)
    Jeez, who pissed in your cornflakes?

    Maybe the guy is here at WWDC with the other 4000 Mac developers and happened to see it live at the Keynote, like me.

    It *does* look awfully nice, nicer than most X11 WM implementations of virtual desktops so far that I've seen.

    Having live previews of your applications (movies that continue playing, etc) is a great feature, and you can move them between desktops while they're updating live. Also, the system will automatically switch you to the relevant desktop when you click on an app that isn't running on the current one.

    X can definitely do live previews, *if* you have Composite and a decent compmgr (like compiz) and something like Xgl or AIGLX. However, these technologies are still in their infancy and far from ready for mass consumption, and many of the video cards lack the proper support for accelerating all the nifty 3D goodness that the new toys require.

    As usual, Apple is doing a good job, with some (in hindsight) obvious improvements. It'll be fun to see how soon we have the same features implemented on Linux, in X.
  • by AHumbleOpinion (546848) on Monday August 07, 2006 @08:23PM (#15862853) Homepage
    ..sigh... i wish i could build a box running linux with those specs ....anyone know where i can find one ?

    The Apple Store, http://store.apple.com./ [store.apple.com]
    I believe some folks have BootCamp working with Linux, http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Triple_Boot_via_Bo otCamp [onmac.net].
  • Re:a political joke? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kyro (302315) on Monday August 07, 2006 @09:44PM (#15863203)
    It seems to still be there on the Australian xcode site [apple.com].

    Project Snapshots
    Record the state of your project anytime, and restore it instantly. Experiment with new features without spending time or brain cells committing them to a source control system. Like saving a game in Civilization 4, Xcode 3.0 lets you go back in time without repercussions. If only reality worked this way at the Pentagon...

  • Re:Photocopied! (Score:3, Informative)

    by weg (196564) on Tuesday August 08, 2006 @05:59PM (#15870032)
    Leopard's Spaces implementation looks like a quantum improvement on other virtual desktop managers I've used

    Try Desktop Manager [berlios.de], it is perfectly integrated into Mac OS X.

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