Air Marshals Place Innocents on Secret Watch List

An anonymous reader writes "The Denver Channel 7 News reports that federal air marshals are operating under a quota for reporting a minimum number of suspicious travelers which is resulting in innocent people being placed on a secret government watch list. From the article: 'These unknowing passengers who are doing nothing wrong are landing in a secret government document called a Surveillance Detection Report, or SDR.'"

The gov't ruining innocent peoples lives

[hsmith]

Boy, color me shocked.

Sad that this "protection" we all pay for is causing headaches for people who are minding their own business.

Re:WTF

[snowgirl]

This is always the problem with quotas. If you have a quota that you must meet, and your job can be done well but below that artificial quota, you "pad" it with stuff that no one will notice, just so you can meet the quota, even though you've done your job completely already.

Bullshit

[Tony]

That is utter and complete bullshit.

I am on that list. I don't know why; I have never been arrested or convicted or tried or anything else. I served honorably in the US Army. I fly all the time.

About 18 months ago, I got on this watch list. It isn't so secret if you are a traveller. You can't use the fancy-shmancy self-service kiosks. You have to wait for a representative to help you. They have to make phone calls. The entire process takes an addiotional 10-15 minutes of not only my time, but the service representative, as well.

There was some poor Thai girl in Bangkok. It was her second day on the job, and she freaked out when my name came up as I was checking in. It took them about 20 minutes to make the call to the US and get stuff squared away.

No, I have not been arrested because of it. But, as an innocent person, why am I singled out for bureaucratic harrasement? I am denied the conveniences of other citizens simply because of my name existing on a watch list.

So, I call bullshit.

Re:The gov't ruining innocent peoples lives

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a relatively common anglo name (like John Doe) which has found its way onto the air watch list. To try and take myself off of the list, I had sent stacks of documentation, my birth certificate, copies of my passport and volumes of other personal crap to the TSA with a request to clear my name. The TSA, after many months, sent back a one page form letter that said they had taken some "actions", but said that those actions may or may not be ignored by the airlines. Some airlines still will not let me check in without going thru the counter and a confirmation phone-call to somebody in the back room somewhere. I don't know if that watch list is the same as the SDR, but it's causing a lot of unnecessary and unwarranted grief.

I'm sure Bin-Hiding is laughing his ass off. He won.

Re:Bullshit

[nojomofo]

My 3-year-old nephew is on the list. This has resulted in such events as him getting into a tugging match with a TSA screener over his teddy bear....

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

for a while I had the same problem; my name is shared by a Texan who happens to be a convicted pediophile -- landed me in the extra observation lane till they caught the fella and then another 6 months

Quantity or Quality

[NMagic]

This seems to be a case of education. They haven't invested the time/funds to train the marshals enough to recognize who they're looking for. Instead of fixing the problem, they compensate with higher numbers to keep up with the odds.

This is your typical case of quantity being chosen instead of quality.

Re:Ayn Rand was an optimist.

[Bryansix]

It's true though. I had a law professor (business law) tell me that the law is designed so that you are always breaking it at any given time. Then the authorities enforce the law when they feel it is required or they want to "throw the boook at you".

Fahrenheit 451

[teasea]

This is in response to All of the Above rather than the direct parent comment.

In this book, they "killed" Montag at the end of the book by finding a random guy walking down the street and shooting him while the live cameras proclaimed that the "dangerous criminal" has been taken off the streets by the ever-vigilant government.

Simple smoke and mirror style politics. We need X number of criminals to justify actions A, B and C.

Obviously this does not apply to an Air Marshall who gets drunk and falls asleep on the plane but is the guy on the De Moines to Bend Oregon run going to find as many suspicious people as the guy on the NY to Boston run?

I See Disciplinary Action Report

[mpapet]

coming for the poor saps who were idiotic enough to go to the media while they were still employed by the Contractor/Agency. The Federal agency may have bid the contract out won't do anything different. They get to blame someone else for being a "bad apple."

The Marshalls just made the career limiting move of the rest of their *life* for what exactly?

For the next person that finds themselves in a similar situation, learn how to do this the right way.

1. If you disagree strongly enough, find another job.
2. While you are finding said job, get some professional help objectivly evaluating your options and creating a strategy.
3. Map out reasonable tactics and choose the plan that is best for you and your loved ones.
4. Execute plan and prepare for unexpected things. In general, the contractor you worked for will publicly discredit you and do what it can to punish you.

If you have done steps 1, 2, and 3 right, there's some protection from events in #4.

Re:clubhouse

[Stripe7]

Actually getting lost in Washington DC is probably enough to get you on the list. I spent a night driving around in circles around the White House late at night looking for my hotel. Took me about 4 trips around it before I found my hotel. It was up a narrow street with a very small sign pointing to the street. The view of the sign was mostly blocked by a hedge. My consultant partner did the same thing, except it took him even more circles and he ended up being stopped by the Secret Service who directed him to the hotel. This was before 9/11. I imagine things would be worse now days, hopefully the Secret Service has figured out that they need to get that hotel's sign enlarged and remove a certain hedge or they will keep having to stop lost visitor's from circling the White House, and adding lots of innocent names to their watchlist. Garbage in garbage out, the more garbage they toss into the Federal database the less useful it is and the more likely real terrorists will actually get through.

There is a reason ...

[golodh]

*sighs* There is a reason that Americans are distrustful of governments, their own included. The article may have identified one. Mindless stupidity.

Why? Because even if governments adhere to what we might call the "industry-average in mindless stupidity" governments can cause far more damage than most industries. From the article:

"Q: What kind of impact would it have for a flying individual to be named in an SDR?

A: That could have serious impact ... They could be placed on a watch list. They could wind up on databases that identify them as potential terrorists or a threat to an aircraft. It could be very serious," said Don Strange, a former agent in charge of air marshals in Atlanta. He lost his job attempting to change policies inside the agency."

Ok, this former agent lost his job because he tried to change policies inside the agency. Anyone want to bet this was over SDR quota? And what other enlightened "policies" are in effect? And yes ... such things will stick around ... if only because it's a bit hard to shop around for alternative governments.

Ok ... so putting someone's name in an SDR has potentially serious consequences for that person. Add to this the (probably MBA-driven) desire for "quantifiable targets" and see the result. From the article "Although the agency strongly denies any presence of a quota system, Las Vegas-based air marshals have produced documents that show their performance review is directly linked to producing SDRs.".

Great ... just great. That leaves us with only one option ... don't fly near the end of the month.

Re:No wonder

[PhrostyMcByte]

Apparently my dad was put on this a while ago when he flew into Las Vegas.

Nobody bothered him that day, but a few days later when he was checking in to go back home he was told he was put on a watch list. I guess the checkin person probably shouldn't have told him that, but she said it only meant a little extra attention on him at the airport and not to worry.

Since then, no one at checkin has mentioned him being on a list. However after that he hasn't been allowed to go back into the terminal to pick up my younger brother (which he had done several times before).

Re:Bullshit

[dbc]

My neighbor's 6 year old kid was on the watch list a couple of years ago. Took months of paperwork to get him off the list.

Re:The gov't ruining innocent peoples lives

[TopShelf]

That's not surprising - we had a consultant on our project go back to India on a 3-week vacation, which got extended another 6 weeks because his name was on the "do not fly" list. It took him that long to get his identify clarified and his visa restored, along with monumental efforts on our end to work through Senatorial offices, etc. to try and clear through the red tape.

And in the end, our company's legal advisors said that 6 weeks should be considered a very quick turnaround under the circumstances...

Guy I know is on the list

[wowbagger]

I know a guy who is on the no-fly list. It's a real bitch, because his job requires him to fly a lot.

So, he goes to the airport, checks his luggage, deals with the BS of being on the list, and flys to his job.

Whereupon he gets his luggage, puts on his uniform, gets his piece, puts on his ID, gets in his plane, and takes off.

He's a commercial airline pilot - authorized to carry a pistol in the cockpit, and to fly a plane full of people.

But he cannot board a flight as a passenger without a bunch of BS because his name is on the No Fly list.

Re:Bullshit

[Jherek Carnelian]

"Please give me written proof I am on your secret list ..." Probably not going ot happen!

No, but a video of the kid fighting it out over the teddy bear with the TSA would be ideal youtube fodder.

If you're not doing anything wrong....

[ShaggyZet]

you don't have anything to worry about right?

Isn't that what the willful violators of our civil rights always tell the public? This sort of blows that out of the water.

I don't even know where to start arguing with this.

A second management memo, also dated July 2004, said, "There may come an occasion when you just don't see anything out of the ordinary for a month at a time, but I'm sure that if you are looking for it, you'll see something."

Are we really doing that bad a job of "fighting it abroad" that there are enough terrorists flying around the country for the thousands of air marshals to file one report every month?

Easy Solution

[UconnGuy]

Fly Southwest - then they don't know who you are because it is open seating and they can't look you up based on seat number.

I fly SWA all the time and find they are usually ahead of schedule and I have never had a problem with them.

Yes - I know they are now testing to see if assigned seating would be faster, but it is only in the testing phase. :-)

Complaining about abuse of power?

[tanveer1979]

It has always been there. And not just in the US, in many other democracy's At many places traffic policemen get a higher raise if they give more traffic tickets. So what do you have. Some poor schmuck who was crossing the signal and light went yellow get the boot. Its easier to ticket him, though the risk posed by some jerk weaving through lanes is much more. The most balatant misuse of this is in India. Set the speed limit to 80kmph. Everybody who hits 80+ be it 81kmph get a 400rs ticket. If somebody is doing 150, that chap also gets 400rs fine. But vehicles with no tail lights which actually pose a threat at night, are let go, because the fine is very very low in the books. At the end of the month, a percentage of fines collected is given to the cops. So rather than catch jerks who jump red lights, which would involve giving a chase and at the most give you a 100rs fine, its great to hide on an empty road with stupid speed limit(50kmph) knowing that someone doing 51 will definately come.

Re:No wonder

[x2A]

"probably shouldn't have told him that"

Maybe she was meant to? Could have various effects, such as
a) Deterrent. This person's less likely to do something bad if they know they're being watched.
b) Spread calm. A none-terrorist is gonna tell people "hey they put me on a watchlist!", giving people confidence that the government is actually on the watchout, keeping ppl safe.
c) Spread fear. Same as b, but in order to convince people there is something to fear, so they can be controlled better and hand over liberties in the name of safety.

Or maybe of cause they haven't put anywhere near that much thought into it :-)

Re:Wait

[HiThere]

We'd almost certainly be better off if we'd responded to 9/11 by doing nothing official. Except, perhaps, legalizing the creation and awarding of a reward for the perpetrators...with official judges to ensure that there was sufficient evidence that the persons turned over actually were the guilty parties.

But then we'd need a new ... president? vice-president? head of the CIA? I don't know who the lead party is, but he's someone high up in the government (or, of course, with a lot of power over the people high up in the government). Unfortunately, that's a large list, and evidence is quite hard to come by. You see rulings here, and decisions there, and you don't know exactly who decided on them and who had to approve them. You see evidence ignored, and you don't know why. Was it reasonable, in this case? Perhaps. Or at least non-culpable. But when there's a pattern of behavior you know that somewhere in that bush there is a tiger. But it's a big bush, and you have only a few bullets (if any!).

Ever made a decision in a large office. Sometimes things that shouldn't have been allowed to pass are let pass. Sometimes things that appear perfectly reasonable are overruled. And you may not know why. You know what the official chain of command is, but it doesn't match the real flows of power. And the person actually making the decisions may be someone aparently minor.

Joseph Stalin became the power in the Soviet Union because he was the party secretary, i.e., the person entrusted with informing others of when the meeting would be held. By timing who he let know when he was able to affect who would show up to vote. Eventually his political foes started finding out about meetings only after the votes had been counted. History shows how things developed from there, but that was the start. He wasn't officially anyone important. Not then.

Re:News for nerds?

[prisoner-of-enigma]

Wasn't aware that I was, just saying that the Republican party (notice, the particular party, not a movement or an ideology) is doing a hell of a lot better at it. I mean, for gods sakes, the concept of "liberty" is a bad thing now.

I'm sure a neoconservative would disagree with you vehemently and say it's the other way around. Perhaps that's why I'm a Libertarian.

"Oh noes! That ideology shares concepts with what Cold War era propaganda taught me was teh devil!"

That has nothing to do with it, and quite frankly you're being silly. I personally dislike the very very ideology behind socialism and communism, although I certainly understand the draw they have for "the common people." What a pity that both ideologies require humans to go against human nature, which is why they are all doomed to failure. Capitalism in Republic is the only ideology that embraces and encourages human nature, which is why it's proven to be the most successful form of government thus far.

Just how freakin' black and white is your world?

Pretty freakin' black and white. You see, I don't bother trying to find moral equivalence or compassion for those who oppose me. People fall into three categories: those that are on "my" side, those that are against me, and those that are neutral. Those who are on my side deserve and receive whatever benefits I can give them. Those who are neutral receive neither favor nor opposition. Those who are against me are my enemies, and I seek to defeat them using whatever means are appropriate.

I'm sure this seems hopelessly Neanderthal to someone so cultured and nuanced as yourself. No doubt this kind of thinking is a complete enigma to you. The sad thing is that while people like you are so busy seeing shades of grey in every situation, people like me are actually taking action and getting things done and -- whether you like it or not -- looking out for your best interests. You won't recognize that, but there it is.

I got put on the watchlist last week

[ajv]

All I did was try to enter the US on my existing E3 visa. Because I apparently can't enter on that visa unless I'm working for the employer during that trip, you can't enter on the E3. You need to be on the visa waiver program, not the E3. WTF? It's a visa! It's far, far harder to get than the VWP.

So I was made to fill out the visa waiver form, and by the time I got back, I found myself on the watchlist. Do the USA really want me to come live in the US and work towards their GDP? Or not?

I'll find out in the next three weeks what it exactly means to be on the watchlist. I'm flying all over the country, so if it does take more time, I will be REALLY pissed. If it means I get stopped in Australia, then I'm going to be REALLY REALLY pissed, as it's completely bogus. I had committed no crime :( Not in the USA, not in Australia.

Andrew

ps. My day job is security. This is security theatre. The folks who run the TSA should be ashamed of themselves. They are no friends of the security industry.

Re:Secret government list?

[cagle_.25]

Ya know, I don't like the trend in government these days, either ... libertarian streak and all that.

But this article is bogus. You have anonymous sources, who are supposedly federal air marshals, who are supposedly under pressure to file one report per month, come rain or shine. Notice that these "sources" are complaining about the quota system while still participating in it. That's some integrity for ya.

Do you know what a *trustworthy* air marshal would do in this situation? He (gender-neutrally speaking) has at least two options:

1. He could resign under protest and take his story to the NYTimes or Washington Post. Even if he's worried about losing his job, a book deal would take care of him for life. Denver Channel 7? Please.
2. He could appeal to the General Accounting Office [gao.gov], which has oversight over all federal programs and runs accountability audits for each of them. There are even Whistleblower Laws to protect sources who call foul. There is *no way* that a quota system could be hidden, because an audit would pick it up. A memo like the one alleged in the article is a smoking gun.

"I would like to see an investigation -- a real investigation conducted into the ways things are done here," the air marshal in Las Vegas said.

It's just a phone call away, buddy.

Re:Wait

[SenseiLeNoir]

In fact that was the attitude shown by Londonners during the IRA bombings during the 80's we developed a strong I Dont care attitude that was also present in the government who clearly also had that policy of get on with life.

Even now, with Mr Blair's mroe bush like responses, us Londonners are very strong in their "i dont care attitude" to thigns like 7/7.. simply because if u show fear.. the terrorists have won.

Re:No wonder

[x2A]

"Maybe you can explain to me b), how a government incompetent enough to put an innocent on the watch list would be competent enough to catch real terrorists"

That would depend on how quickly their "innocence" is established and removed from the list. It shows that they're watching people. But unless you're seen switching a bomb on in your shoe, it's always going to be a case of guesswork, which means "I would like to know who here really thinks the world is a safer place since 9/11"

9/11? To you that might be some significant date, but more a lot of the rest of the world it's an arbitrary date plucked out of the air. For certain countries, the date that sticks in their minds may be the date their own country was attacked (by usa/others, or something completely unrelated). Question really is, how do you think the date in which one arbitrary country (USA) was attacked was meant to make the world safer? Bush doesn't care about safer, he just cares about not being made to look a fool again, which means tightening the grip so much to avoid an attack on usa soil again. That's all.

Re:Secret government list?

[cagle_.25]

The GAO is not like the FBI. The FBI has interdepartmental squabbles with CIA and NSA which lead to a large amount of secrecy. The purpose of the GAO is to bring sunshine to bear on other agencies, and it has a culture that accords with that practice.

Also, the FBI operates on guesswork -- taking this piece of info and coordinating it with that piece. If you're an FBI field agent and your superior doesn't agree with the way you are connecting the dots, well, too bad for your theory.

In the GAO, there is a process for dealing with complaints. If a complaint comes up, it is documented and investigated. There is no "quashing", unless that comes from the Inspector General or something. You'll notice that the article alleged that this was a regional practice (Marshal Strange indicated he didn't encounter it in Atlanta), so it's not possible that this would receive some kind of departmental cover.

Further, the other option I mentioned is always possible: resign under protest and take it to a repuatable paper -- NYTimes, Wash Post, or (likely in Nevada) the LATimes.

(Aside) And the <P> tag is *still* broken; I can't get a decent paragraph break after the first paragraph.

Re:No wonder

[Jim Hall]

I had something similar happen to me when I was flying to Birmingham, England for a business meeting just before Christmas. Didn't think I'd ever have a problem leaving the country. When I tried to do Express Checkin at the NorthWest counter, the computer told me to see an agent in person. The guy taps my passport number into his terminal, says "Oh!" (never a good sign) and makes a phone call. I can only hear his side of the conversation, but I'm not really paying attention until ten minutes later when I hear the phrase "... he's attempting to use an American passport." Not something you want to hear in an airport. That's when I moved the poinsettia out of the way so I could see and hear him better. (I'm thinking, "Hey, maybe I'll spend Christmas in a 6'x6' chain link cell in Guantanamo ... at least it's warm!") Five minutes after that, he says I've been cleared (?) and gives me my passport and ticket. Never found out why the delay. Weird.