Microsoft Customers Balk at Hard Sell 353
HangingChad writes "ComputerWorld is running an article about Microsoft's latest type of sales force scare tactic. Apparently Microsoft is using the new title of 'engagement manager' to attempt sales via intimidation. From the article: 'Indeed, according to Microsoft's Web site, the responsibility of someone with Lawless' title of "engagement manager" is to "perform as an integrated member of the account team, drive business development and closing of new services engagements in targeted accounts."'"
Microsoft Customers Balk at Hard Sell (Score:3, Interesting)
Brilliant (Score:3, Interesting)
Any company that knowingly (or thinks they are) in vialation will quickly signup for whatever universal license agreement that will cover them. Most of the time those people have already looked at the options and know what they need to do.
Unfortuanatly they did not back off when someone called the bluff. Know when to fold um.
Im not justifying it, im just saying its thinking outside the box. And i would guess that its very effective.
This is very common (Score:2, Interesting)
This is not uncommon. In fact, I don't know any super large company that would not put pressure on vendors and small companies that rely on the bigger ones. This is the case with so many other businesses and occurs everywhere in all countries. I used to work for a small business (~30 employed) and we had only one big client which will remain nameless, but you have all heard of it. Because they knew we needed them to survive, they delayed wirings and pushed us down to a stupid low cost production model. We basically had our salaries cut every year to survive at all. First they told us that they would find someone else or produce it on their own. We were forced to agree. Next, they stripped us down even further by announcing that they would no longer need our services. We were looking at a feasible bankrupcy here. Shortly after, a company affiliate purchased what was left, fired most of the staff and outsourced it.
I might add that this fit perfectly into the schedule of this company. Our products were updated once every 7 months, and it so happened that our services were not needed just after the last shipment. All in all, they just made us desperate, stripped us down and then bought what was left, acquired the technology and kicked most of us out.
I don't feel bad about this today, but I wish to inform you that this is not an uncommon phenomenon.
Re:How biased can this website get? (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously, if there were numerous reports of MS staffers showing up on company's doorsteps toting baseball bats, this would be news. But this situation is not. At my company, we have an Enterprise Agreement with MS which gives them the right to come on sight and audit our usage. We true-up at the end of each year based on what we're actually using and everyone goes home happy.
In this case, the guy in question should have just escalated this with Microsoft's management and tried to speak with someone more reasonable. The fact that he decided to call a lawyer first makes me think he was a little nervous about something he might have overlooked. Just my 2 centavos.
Re:Microsoft Customers Balk at Hard Sell (Score:4, Interesting)
1. You have no prior business arrangement with Oracle
2. You haven't bought the piece of software in question
3. You aren't required to have a software audit upon request
4. They have no reason to question that you're using the software correctly or not (since you never used it, there's no dial home)
There's a difference between
"Buy our software because you haven't, but you should, so do it!"
and
"We've been mulling it over in the ol' license factory and we think you're lieing when you say you're only using our software 5 times. We think you need to license 100,000,000 users since one server's SMB share is available to the internet serving pr0n (good pr0n btw). So instead of using high pressure marketing techniques which obviously aren't working, we're going to use our manifest right to invade your workplace to mandate what's needed for compliance the way we see it."
Yeah, I was ranting...
Re:it's all about obfuscation (Score:5, Interesting)
I heard from these guys I think... (Score:3, Interesting)
When nicely told to stick it, the final word from this ass was (and I quote) "How confident are you that you have everything in order?"
I'd really hate for something to happen to your nice store there, Mister. You sure you don't want to hire us to make sure nothing gets broken?
Re:You must be new here (Score:2, Interesting)
They run just happily on SuSE systems. Yes, I install software for them, but it is very rare that they need new stuff. They can use the klik:// stuff easily, too.
Linux is here today, for many of us. My parents, my grandparents, etc. . . .
Re:it's all about obfuscation (Score:3, Interesting)
It's more like the RIAA licensed Microsoft's business methods. Long before this whole P2P thing blew up, Microsoft was performing surprise "licensing audits" against damn near everyone with more than 20 seats. Schools, corporations, and everything in between got a visit from Microsoft. People who were out of compliance were presented with two hands. One hand held a bill for the missing licenses. The other hand held a BIG FUCKING STICK, which is to say, the threat of a lawsuit if you don't come into compliance immediately by either paying up, or removing the offending software.
Back then, pretty much everyone paid up. The alternatives were no alternative. Microsoft has slowed down on that particular tactic more recently, because most businesses could get their work done if they shifted over to Linux. They don't do it because there's a cost, but if the cost of licensing compliance is a significant percentage of the cost of switching to Linux, I think many of them would go ahead and do it.
Re:You must be new here (Score:3, Interesting)
The nice thing about linux (for me) is that I didn't have to buy software in years for it:) I understand some people might want something (like Photoshop) that's only available on Windows and don't want to use wine, but I think the majority of non-techies are just websurfers and do some IM/email with an office app pitched in.
Ironically, it's the computer professionals who will be harder to please as some good software is windows only, stuff like photoshop, etcetera, as the only technical market that is almost fully served by linux right now are the programmers.
Of course, I may just be biased, I've been using Linux so long now, as when I installed Windows XP to use some stupid program, I kept comparing how primitive/annoying that was compared to my linux box, XP doesn't even read ext3/2 partitions or bitching it doesn't come with any software!
Re:it's all about obfuscation (Score:5, Interesting)
I think that's putting it way too simply. Everyone I have met who hates Microsoft has not been a competitor but a consumer, albeit perhaps a knowledgeable and self-interested one. The problem is that Microsoft does not just destroy its competitors -- it also destroys choice, either by drowning out alternatives with FUD and marketing, or with the classic "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" strategy. And this angers those of us who want a choice.
If people dislike Microsoft for something, it's mostly for their licensing structure.
Microsoft's whole business model depends on being a monopoly, so they do everything they can to preserve it. Their licenses help them to do that, but they're not the real issue. See above.
That's why you see most people trying to advocate Linux use to businesses focus on the small-F "free" aspect: very few people really care about the capital-F/libre definition of "Free," the only advantage of Linux is that it costs less.
"Free as in beer" is not the only advantage of FOSS such as Linux. However, it is the first one that a business is likely to understand, so it's hardly a surprise that an advocate would mention it first in a business context.
As for the "free as in speech" part, which really is manifested in the use of open standards -- this also benefits a business because: it removes the threat of vendor lock-in; it promotes competition between software suppliers; and it protects the ability to access to documents and data in the event that the software company goes out of business or withdraws support for the formats.
Racketeering? (Score:4, Interesting)
The act of engaging in criminal activity as a structured group is referred to in the U.S. as racketeering.
M$: We need to check your license with our auditing software.
IT Guy: Here's all of of licenses and the machines they are installed on.
M$: No, we need to run the audit to see how much software you're pirating.
IT Guy: We're not pirating anything! Our records are accurate!
M$: Either you let us inventory your systems or we break your computers and then your legs.
Isn't RICO applicable here?
Not between equals. (Score:4, Interesting)
Meet the DMCA. If the BSA has "evidence" of your wrongdoing, you get to pay for the audit and the "violated" company's legal bills. See here [com.com] for a reference story and what to do about this kind of extortion. Essentially, you are screwed and have to pay the fines demanded without a fight. A fight would cost the average company half a million dollars, more if you include the cost of business disruption.
Software contracts and licenses are not normal contracts. The "agreement" between you and a non free software company is that you are so greatfull for the software that you will do as you are told.
Treating customers like this, Microsoft has completely lost it.
It speaks volumes!! (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know much about their products since I don't use them and have no plans to but I wonder about their products when they have to resort to these tactics.
Shouldn't the product sell itself?
I use nothing but linux and it is really really easy to install as long as you do your homework and buy hardware that is compatible - but that is any os.
To those businesses tired of being strong armed by software vendors I suggest you really try linux. It is robust and stable operating system and has all the applications you will ever need. No more trips to the local computer store to buy the 10.00 special on software. You will have all the software you will ever need or want. And you will be able to get your work done and run your business instead of counting licenses.
The three or four I would recommend trying are Ubuntu, Suse, Centos and or Fedora, and Mandriva.
go ahead and give them try they will just work and all it will cost you is a little time but your business will be better off in the long run and you will get the time back easily in money saved by license fees.
Re:Unfortunately, Linux is not an alternative (Score:4, Interesting)
Missing functionality in open source (Score:2, Interesting)
One major problem is a lack of a directory service on par with Microsoft's Active Directory--a directory service that's seamlessly integrated into just about everything: authentication & public key management, printing, desktop settings, package management, filesystem access control and contact lists in IM and e-mail. (Novell's eDirectory is a proprietary product, and does not count as open source.) Right now, there are many individual components--OpenLDAP, PAM, NFS4, POSIX ACLs, GConf and Evolution--which are more or less complete in themselves, but are poorly-integrated with each other. Getting them to work in concert with the directory service as glue is fiddly, frustrating and in many cases, would involve substantial amounts of coding.
Also needed is groupware on par with Exchange Server (Novell's Groupwise does not count because it's not open source.) that can seamlessly integrate scheduling, contact management, backup and archival, search, IMAP/POP access, load-balancing & replication and server-side mail filtering. Again, there are a whole lot of individual open source components which have to be stitched tediously together to get anywhere near the same functionality.