Boot Camp For Suckers? 610
DigitalDame2 writes "PC Magazine's Editor-in-Chief says the whole Mac/Windows dual-boot thing is really nothing to get excited about. He writes that Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X." From the article: "Once you've laid out a few kilobucks on your BC system and been frustrated a few times with Windows limitations, what are you going to do? Jobs's bet: You'll start spending more and more time in OS X, until you--too--become one of the pod people. It's sad to see so many of my compatriots being turned into lemmings. Perhaps they'll wake up and smell the Apple pie in the sky--and realize they've been taken for a ride. But I doubt it."
Message for Captain Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Well...duh! Did anyone think Apple was doing it as a public service?
Next up: Publishers put nice pictures on their book covers so you will buy them. Bastards!!
Mox
Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, why does this guy care so much?
Confused? (Score:3, Insightful)
Strange definition of "lemming" (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, I don't think anyone's going to buy a relatively expensive mac just so they can try osx on a machine that will still run windoze. Boot Camp's primary utility is saving mac users from having to buy a pc to run applications that they need to run, but which only work in windoze. If/when a native mode virtual pc comes out, boot camp will be even less relevant. To that end, I can agree that boot camp is nothing to get excited about, but that doesn't mean it's without merit.
That seems illogical... (Score:1, Insightful)
You buy a *Mac* system to run *Windows*
You find that Windows blows so you increasingly use OS X
And this gives Apple money.
But, you bought the god damned system in the first place! Why do they care if you use Windows or OS X on it?
What's the problem again? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't his compatriots are the ones who need to wake up.
How did this guy even get a job? (Score:5, Insightful)
Idiot... (Score:3, Insightful)
Um, fool, the "pod people" are the 90%+ who are Windows lemmings, putting up with the myriad faults of that OS. I guess that's what I'd expect from a "PC Magazine" editor...mindless Apple bashing, whether it makes sense or not.
And your point is? (Score:2, Insightful)
What is a big shocker is that this guy doesn't get the fact that that is exactly the reason that many people are thinking about buying a mac, because they can try out a mac and still have windoz to fall back on (ouch that would have to hurt).
He touts this as if people are jumping into it blindly, and being swindeled. Come on, get with it. Pleople realize this, and are looking forward to it. It's a benefit, not some underhanded sucker punch.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider the source: Louderbeck (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If Jobs really wanted people to switch... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'll wait until you figure out the difference between $3,000 and $130.
Re:If Jobs really wanted people to switch... (Score:1, Insightful)
Might work the OTHER way around (Score:1, Insightful)
And what happens when Joe Machead tries out Windows for the first time and realizes "Hey, you mean you can play GAMES on this thing?!?" OS X might suddenly not look so attractive and his next purchase be a lower-priced PC.
-Eric
Apple isn't out to steal Windows users (Score:5, Insightful)
As others have pointed out, it seems that the primary strategy behind BootCamp is: Give people the option to use whatever operating system they like. Apple has allowed their consumers to install Linux on their machines since forever, and now they're allowing Windows, too.
What does Apple have to gain? Profits from hardware sales, of course. Plus, whenever you're buying a Mac, you're also buying OSX, so they're not losing much software profits either. Who else has to gain? Possibly Microsoft in the short run (all those Mac kiddies giving Windows a shot without having to buy a PC).
And then there is the whole other market of people who aren't concerned about software expandability so much as hardware. Macs aren't great for upgrading their hardware. Windows or no windows.
- shazow
The More Effete Among Us (Score:5, Insightful)
The more effete among us have embraced BC because now they can run all their favorite Windows apps on a saucy, sexy Mac.
Wow. Nothing says "class" like a thinly-veiled "Macs are for fags" joke.
You'd exect this sort of thing from a random blogger or Slashdotter, not the freakin' editor-in-chief of PC Magazine.
Missing the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact is, the majority of people buying the MacTel, are buying it because it runs OSX AND Windows. No other laptop can really claim that -- at least legally (and easily). This is a really important distinction. I love OSX. I'm a linuxhead, but just having things work, and work together seamlessly. Priceless. (though my desktop is still a linux box)
For my laptop, I have no desire to run windows. I'm through with that agony in my life. I want to enjoy my computing experience. However, I am realistic. There are some applications, unfortunately, that still require windows. Bootcamp gives me the perfect compromise.
So, this editor is way off base. It's true, Apple isn't performing a public service. But they are taking down one more barrier that would normally stop people from buying their computers. And it's true. Once you start using OS X, you find yourself much less likely to go back to Windows. But not because of some strange Apple conspiracy. Because it kicks M$'s ass (comparing apples to lemons?). And this is from someone who wouldn't touch a Mac a couple years ago.
Praising with Faint D@mns ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know whether the article is confused or trying to be clever, but I don't think Apple minds 'criticism' such as that.
The Pope is Catholic, Water is Wet, and... (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple attract a lot of suckers (Score:2, Insightful)
There are a lot of suckers out there, and many slaves to the marketing machine that is Apple, and I bet even most geeks blindly believe "tech specs" and out of context benchmarks if it gives them a good excuse to be fashionable, have the latesty trendy useless gimmick, and for bonus points, send Microsoft a Fuck You.
Also, what's with macs and Hollywood? Pretty much everyone I know who works in the film industry owns a mac. Is it because of the product placement Apple likes to do? They swear they're better without knowing much about them, or even knowing what Linux is.
Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently he's noticed that John C. Dvorak's trolling puts the hit count through the roof. Only makes sense to start using the rest of the magazine's brand to start trolling as well.
He's obviously got some sort of logic malfunction, his arguments are both bizarre and full of emotive language. It's professional trolling.
Warning: Humour Alert (Score:5, Insightful)
I think he's trying to be funny.
I am English. I know sarcasm. It's what we do. And I think that's what he's trying to do here. It's not very well done, but there are little hints. It's why he links to himself and calls himself "some idiot". It's why he specifically mentions the M-Audio [m-audio.com] and Kona [aja.com] kit (the latter is Mac only). Of course it works with the Mac.
So all those who are praising him for his insight, for debunking the Mac myth - stop now. Same goes for the Mac fanbois who are trying to find fault with his article.
It's subtle, I'll allow that, but remember: always consult the nearest Brit before responding to something that sounds a little bit too stupid to be true. It probably is.
iqu
Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Just a guess? Job security. Or if not that in particular (if you can train a monkey to write about Windows, you can retrain it to write about Macs), then perhaps he is feeling the relevance of his "core competence" slowly inexorably slipping away.
He does seem quite bitter about his friends and associates adopting Apple hardware. If some of them find that OS X is a better OS for their daily needs, why would he begrudge them that, calling them lemmings? He even claims that their IQs are going to slip downwards. It might be that the various insults are an attempt at humor, but if so, it doesn't really work.
No, I think this excuse for an article is just a sign of the author's insecurity. You can pretty much smell his fear. I don't know what he has to be afraid of in reality, but this guy is shaking in his boots just the same.
WIndows users aren't Lemmings? Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Jealously is a pretty funny thing.
Re:Might work the OTHER way around (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you ever met a mac user that you could imagine doing this? Most of the ones I met think that sitting them in front of windows is pretty close to asking them to do differential calculus in their head while juggling. For 99% of mac users booting into windows will be a distateful task that is required to play games, and nothing more.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
And, for the record, the only thing Apple makes that I own is the Mighty Mouse (it works surprisingly well with my IBM ThinkPad).
Logical Analysis (Score:5, Insightful)
1. I don't like Macs, Apple, or Steve Jobs.
2. I don't like anything that can't be tinkered with.
3. Boot Camp is an Apple Product.
4. By #1 and #2, anyone who likes any of the above is an idiot and/or brainwashed.
5. By #3 and #4, Boot Camp is for idiots.
While #5 may proceed logically from #3 and #4, #4 does not proceed from #1 or #2.
I'd say the author has a wonderful future ahead of him in either Slashdot trolling, talk radio, or writing about politics. Editing a computer magazine? Not so sure about that one.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
The Article is Troll Bait, Don't Waste Your Time (Score:3, Insightful)
"Apple's not interested in a DIY Mac, nor is it concerned with the case-mod culture of the PC."
True Apple isn't big on a DIY system. Neither are most Mac users. But saying that there isn't a case-mod culture among Mac users is completely asinine. MacAddict runs case mod articles - with photos - on a semi-regular basis, all you'd have to do is pick up a back issue or two to see how wrong this statement is. And if you don't know about MacAddict (as I suspect the author doesn't) you really have no business making commentary about Mac users or case-mod culture.
"I don't know about you, but when I buy a computer I want everything to work right."
This of course is one of the top reasons that people buy Macs. The tight integration between the OS and the hardware still beats Windows Plug-and-Pray 9 times out of 10. "Plug it in, and it just works" has been the Apple mantra for *years*. Its what the users expect. Compare to Windows XP, where plugging in a new monitor meant I had to re-install my wireless network driver, or adding memory forces me to register with Microsoft on my next reboot? I'm not sure what's worse, that these things happen or that it doesn't bother me anymore.
There are other serious flaws with the article. It really has no redeeming value, and its just so loaded with flamebait it reflects poorly on the authors of PC Magazine that they even published it.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
--This has nothing to do with the office environment, and everything to do with shoring up the gaming system on Macs. One OS for games, and one OS for everything else... you don't generally need to have both running at the same time.
Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Louderback makes numerous irrelevant assertions in his rant, but one that particularly bothers me is the contention that 'really creative computer users' are the ones doing all kinds of case modifications. I think a lot of these mods are really novel, but aside from 'overclocking' type mods, are largely unrelated to anything to with it being a computer, and in general, are designed to potray an illusion of futuristic utility.
Do you judge the quality of your doctor by the number of different blinking LEDs he or she has afixed to his or her instruments, or do you concern yourself more with the work done with those instruments? In point, the work employing computers in research groups around the world, usually does not hinge upon blue neon lights or hamster tubes being included, and much of this work is indeed very creative.
For me, computers are tools, and often necessary evil ones that can make some ridiculously simple needs seem impossible. Anything that lets me work more and jiggle cables/restart/reinstall/etc. less is a better tool.
Re:Warning: Humour Alert (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Congratulations! You've just won the Made Up Fact of the Hour Award!
There's no way whatsoever to prove that. You completely just made it up, probably from your own experience. Which is exactly what you're decrying (though the post you quoted doesn't really seem to have anything to do with that).
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely true. They do not care as long as it works right. And judging from the support "mundanes" ask from me to solve problems in their Windows setup, they seem to be of the opinion that Windows doesn't work right. Yes, they usually do not blame Windows. They just say "my computer doesn't work right anymore, please fix it for me." But give 'm a machine that runs both Windows and OSX, and soon they'll realise that one part of their machine is breaking down, while the other part runs fine. Guess what, as soon as they cannot really work in Windows anymore (which will happen soon enough without proper maintenance), they will just switch to working with OSX. And they will not phone me anymore, because that is way more difficult than just turning on the part that works and does everything they need.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
If we look at the subset of Windows users who actually know alternatives exist - and I'd say that's 1 in 5 or even less - most of them are either used to Windows or would rather use an alternative but need to use software they're famliar with.
But remember, Apple is starting from a small base. If Apple's market share changed from 3% to 6% - which I think is definitely possible - that would be a huge story.
D
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple differentiates at a point most people simply don't care about (Operating System).
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
Present company on slashdot excepted.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Consider the source: Louderbeck (Score:3, Insightful)
It is time for the PC advertisers to send a clear message to the Dvoraks, Louderbecks, and other trolls, to stop wasting their advertising dollars by trolling Mac users.
Calling Mac OS X users Lemmings ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Biased summary (biased article) (Score:3, Insightful)
When you're given a fair chance to evaluate two alternatives, and decide on one of them... how is that 'being taken for a ride'?
BC users can use either OS. The summary assumes that choosing Windows is the right alternative and choosing Mac is the sucker one.
Poor.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do so many Mac users insist on this fantasy that Windows users really hate Windows and would switch to the Mac OS in a flash if only they had a chance to touch it's brushed chrome goodness? The fact is, your dislike of Windows has little bearing on wether others like it. Heck, you can even hate Windows with passion usually reserved for suicide bombers and it still would have very little influance on whether the general population would like it. Need, coersion and ignorance are not the only reasons people use Windows. Most Windows users actually like their OS and would not want to switch. This could, in fact, be a good chunk of the reason why the vast majority of Windows users, even the ones who've seen that really cool "Dock," have not switched.
Well, I have to disagree. I have used Windows for years - mostly because I play games. I would switch to the Mac OS or any other OS in a milisecond if I could play my games on it. I can't say there is a single feature of Windows that would keep me using it. I have spent countless hours just fixing buggered up installations, reinstalling Windows because its been too long and its filled up with bloated crap I can't identify to remove, reinstalling because it just suddenly stopped working for no apparent reason, fixing other people's installations because they were screwing around and accidentally hit the "fuck up this installation" button somehow etc. You shouldn't have to fight your Operating System just to continue using it. You shouldn't have a shitty browser shoved up your ass by the Marketing Department at Microsoft. You shouldn't have them continuing their monopolistic practices (I guess the DOJ had the best judge that money could buy or something). Any loyalty MS might ever have gotten from me they have lost through their own shoddy software and business practices.
I use Windows because I play PC games and thats the only reason. Its the tie to gaming that has made Windows so successful in my case and in the case of most of my friends. I can do almost any other thing I care to under Linux or OS/X but I can't play games when the developers of those games can't be bothered to develop them for any other platform. Sure there are emulation means I could use, some run under Wine etc, but my system isn't beefy enough to do that adequately and I don't have the cash to afford it. Hell I can't even afford a 40Gb drive at the moment.
Windows sucks, but I have little or no choice in running it as long as the game developers are willing to continue to be Microsoft's bitch and only develop for Windows.
3 Words: Vista June 2007 (Score:3, Insightful)
Along with Wal-Mart getting into the computer building business, we might see some interesting things happening in the next six months.
I don't hate Windows with the passion of a thousand fiery suns, but I know people who were waiting for Vista who will wander into the Apple Store now. My house has Linux, Windows, and OSX, but that situation is rare.
I'd be happy to see your statistics about how much people love Windows.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
That small detail slightly undermines the credibility of your argument. As a programmer, I can offer some insight into your argument which is trotted out everytime an OSX/Windows BBQ hits slashdot. The truth of the matter is that while Windows itself does support a wide range of hardware, its less than Linux (which is free, and comparatively stable, if not more stable) and only sort-of more than OSX since most hardware specific code is abstracted from the OS in the form of common APIs.
People can debate whether Windows is stable, not stable, better, not better than OSX until th cows come home, but the wide array of hardware argument is a tired old cliche that while somewhat relevant, pales on comparison to more important factors that contribute to code stability: the business approach, time to market policies, varying strategies in deploying product updates, level of integration with 2nd or 3rd party applications, internal organizational consistancy, etc, etc, etc. Most importantly, most everybody in the know agrees that it isn't supporting 'millions and millions' of configs that causes Windows to be such a huge codebase
Most of the 'hardware' support is driven by the hardware (or OEM) vendors themselves; all OSes have sufficient hardware abstraction layers that make supporting 'millions and millions' of configs simply a matter of resources and market support, not technical hurdles.
Re:Warning: Humour Alert (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently, Dvorak has been doing satire for years.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
The Mighty Mouse is advertised as being able to work as a two-button mouse. With a two-button mouse, I can click the right mouse button while my finger is resting on the left mouse button, and the computer receives a right-click event. With the Mighty Mouse, that doesn't work: the computer receives a left-click event, even though I "clicked" the right side of the mouse.
I call that a hardware bug. "Caveat emptor" is all well and good to say, but pretending the bug is actually a feature is only deluding yourself.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
a) The hardware is more expensive
b) Gotta buy all new software
c) Not wanting to devote hours re-learning how to use their computer
d) The usual FUD (nothing's compatible, etc.)
I'm a Mac user, but there are plenty of reasons not to switch even if you don't like Windows. To put it another way, "hating" Windows may not be compelling enough to scrap everything and start over.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
Well I'm not going to answer for anyone else here, but I think a lot of people hate Windows because I hear a lot of people talking about how much they hate Windows.
Actually I don't really know anyone who'd be willing to go out in public and tell everyone how much they like Windows and how wonderful they think it is, and otherwise extoll its virtues, who isn't drawing a paycheck from Microsoft. To most people, Windows is right up there with beige carpet and Steelcase office furniture and #2 pencils. It's just there; you use it because its what you were given and because it's what's standard and because its what everyone else uses. You might hate it and know on some dim level that there's a better way, but it's not so spectacularly bad to drive you out of your rut.
I think the great majority of people are apathetic about Windows, when you get right down to it.
Re:THANK YOU! (Score:3, Insightful)
Guess what OSX = lower ping for WoW. Microsoft needs to overhaul there IP stack again if you ask me. I love linux or OSX for gaming simply because my ping is always better.
I think bootcamp is really for businesses. It allows them to migrate off windows only apps to something better. I've almost talked my boss into buying a MacBook Pro at work for the university newspaper advisor. The only thing he needs windows for now is a stupid university app for payroll that was custom written using jinitiator (oracle bs). The whole paper runs on macs and it would be easier for him to interoperate on a mac.
I'm excited about the new macs overall. Bootcamp will allow me to buy one computer instead of two. I've got a dell workstation and an ibook now. When i upgrade next, I'll just buy a mac for my windows and mac needs. Maybe if i'm lucky, *BSD will run as well and i can get rid of my bsd box too. That would mean apple gets 3000 dollars toward a box, dell and newegg get zero.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Preaching to the choir (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the main reason people still use Windows is that it's good enough. Sure, it's not as great as you'd like, but it's the devil you know. Besides, everybody else uses it, so it can't be that bad, can it?
(disclaimer: I own and prefer Apple computers)
Suckers? I don't think so. (Score:2, Insightful)
And Frozen Bubble is available for Mac OS X, so I don't know what all the fuss about games not being available for the Mac is all about.
Re:Message for Captain Obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
I wanted to try OS X out, downloaded it off a torrent installed it on my inspiron notebook, fell in love, realized the crap windows is, and bought an iMac a month later.
I think it is true, I hate windows, and I really hate having to fix other people I know's windows boxes. I have told them all that I now have a mac, and that their 'support contracts' now require them to make a platform migration.
Apple wins.