Professors vs. WiFi 455
murky.waters writes "The New York Times (free registration, profiling) has an article about the opposing views of teacher's demanding attention and students seeking distraction; the current trend toward wireless Internet access in the classroom has students surfing the web and checking their email from the backrow, while instructors are climbing up the ladder... to disconnect the Access Point." Makarand writes "University Wi-Fi networks are heavily impacting student campus life according to this
article on NewsObserver.com.
In addition to allowing them to keep working while not in their computer labs, the wireless networks allow them to keep in touch with their family, better organize time, complete coursework in shorter periods of time, collaborate
with other students and bring computing power into classrooms not available before."
Attention span (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Attention span (Score:4, Insightful)
The teacher passes responsiblity to student (Score:2, Insightful)
Because the professor cannot properly do their job they punish the students? Its not the students job to be interested in what you have to say, its YOUR job to keep their interest and give exciting lectures, its THEIR job to do the required work and pass the required tests as well as attend class.
There is no requirement to ENJOY the class or pay attention in the class, if the lecture is worthless crap they can read from the book or get on their own why should they pay attention.
If I take a class on C, and the teacher is explaining hello world and I already know C why the hell should I bother paying attention, and if the teacher has an accent when teaching this garbage like one of my teachers from india had, or a greek accent, forget it, I'm not even going to bother wasting my time trying to figure out what they are saying, Ill show up, and ill do what I want until the class is over.
Re:The teacher passes responsiblity to student (Score:5, Insightful)
WRONG!!!!
Care to try again? The classroom environment requires the participation of BOTH the instuctor and the student. Additionally, the onus to aggressively pursue a quality learning envrionment lies more with the student. The best teacher in the world can't teach a student who actively resists, but a dedicated student can (and often WILL) suceed in learning a great deal despite instructors of a lower caliber. This is exemplefied in Mark Twain's famous quote: "I never let schooling interfere with my education."
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Fighting ignorance and apathy since 1977
Re:The teacher passes responsiblity to student (Score:3, Insightful)
The classroom is a society and as such the student has a responsibilty to allow other students the opportunity to be interested, not distracted and get the benefit of the lecture. If anyone is slamming away at a laptop in class it is a distraction, or if they have a CD player going with headphones that can be heard 10 feet away, that is a distraction. If that is the case then assuming attendence is not mandetory that student should behave or not show.
The second observation I have is that some but not all students that seem to feel that they know the material, don't. You point about knowing C is a good example. No self respecting college level course teaches just C, or C++ or whatever. What is being taught is programming, or data structures or Object Oriented Paradigm, or some cluster of ideas, but never just a language. As I have observed in my day job, knowing a language has little to do with intellegent approaches to structuring and solving problems in way that is efficient, maintainable and re-usable. These are the other things that are taught along with say a language being taught.
If you get to a place where you think that it is not worth listening to someone teaching on your subject then you have stopped learning. Or better yet you can start that next process of learning by comparing what you hear with that you know and make those critical observations about how it should have been done. Much of my work has been just that, reverse engineering other peoples ideas about how something should have been done.
Opportunities are now, not later. Find the fault line to split the diamond in one blow.
Exactly, (Score:4, Interesting)
Unlike highschool, people pay to go to college. Its not logical to pay for something you dont REALLY want.
So if you pay to hear them lecture and they just suck, its not your fault, you paid them, they just suck. Highschool is different, you dont really want to be there, you are just stuck there.
Professors need to earn their salaries, at my school the students actually EVALUATE the teachers, teachers who cannot give good lectures recieve poor ratings.
Re:Exactly, (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, this is LAW school we are talking about. Prior to 80 years ago, most states did not require lawyers to go to law school, and those that did not require an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite. (note, lawyering used to be like a trade, you worked as an apprentice. This is still required in Canada) Law school as we know it today was created to make it exceedingly difficult for lower classes to become involved with the American system of jurisprudence.
That being said, law school doesn't really teach you anything. As the article states, most of these teachers are stuck in the 1970's, during the great heyday of the wealthy elite ruling the universities thinking they knew what was best for America. The "Paper Chase" is nowhere near accurate today.
The reality is that Law is being changed by the internet more than any other profession. You used to pay for the experience a lawyer gains over a lifetime. But now, anyone with a credit card can go to Westlaw or Lexis-Nexis and find tons of resources.
But students get it for free. This makes the entire research process infinitely easier, as well as makes the process of summarizing cases for class discussion much easier. Many cases are already summarized online.
The teachers hate this more than anything. Between the internet and the many hornbooks and study guides available, most teachers know students don't learn jack shit in class. All class teaches you is how deal with pressure. Personally, I believe that is questionable, but in the face of overwhelming evidence that class instruction is not required to do well on an exam they have to claim something.
The point? No one WANTS to go to class in law school. It sucks. But, if you want to be a lawyer you have to go. So people go through the motions, and try and look busy.
Re:Exactly, (Score:2, Insightful)
If a school is going to give someone a degree, it is saying that person has completed all the requirements for graduation -- i.e. has gained a broad enough education to be granted a bachelor's degree. The degree is not a commodity and shouldn't be cheapened by letting students who are too immature to realize that a course has value completely ignore it. Yes, some instructors should be better, but that doesn't release the student from the responsiblity to learn.
Re: [not] Exactly, (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the professors at the college I attended was probably the best lecturer I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. (And yes, he had a fairly distinct Italian accent. If you paid attention, however, you could understand what he was saying - he was kind enough to enunciate industry terminology) However, he had post-secondary expectations of the students who had secondary school expectations of the course. Therefore he wound up with dozens of complaints and really poor reviews. Throughout the course he gave lectures including many things that weren't in the assigned textbook or in the handout materials - kind of extra digressions of the course material. Much of it helped to learn the materikal better, some of it was simply an extra interesting fact or two that we could take away with us. Much of it, however, was to be on the final exam. See, he'd already noticed a rather distinct pattern of students who were away from most every class.
Early in the course, he handed out a 30-50 page report, due in about three months, and from then on the students decided, en masse, to unilaterally hate and ignore said teacher. As a result, he was forced to lower the bar to ridiculous levels when marking these assignments; to the point where I, who had handed in a large, well researched, well complied paper covering all the outlined materials, nicely presented in a folder, felt slighted. Granted, I got an A+ on the paper - but the guy who handed in a four page, double spaced, stapled, wide margin paper with (of all things) pictures got an A.
The unfortunate aspect of colleges and universities is the fact that they are, by and large, a business. Their clients are their students; without whom they could not keep their doors open. I entered college with the rather naive impression that college would be somehow better than high school because, hey, people are paying thousands of dollars to be here so they have to care, right? As it turns out, I couldn't have been more wrong. College students seemed to be some of the most spoiled, apathetic brats I've had the displeasure of being associated with. What made matters worse was the fact that so many of them had cars, not to mention that the majority were 'of age' to drink and could skip class in favour of the campus bar.
I'm of the opinion that college should have a pre-requisite that students do sometghing on their own for a period of one-two years such as work a full-time job, rent their own appartment and manage bills; something to aquaint themselves with the real world before they get to sit in padded, swivellling chairs and ignore the poor schmuch trying to instill knowledge in them.
To get topical; wireless or no wireless, students will likely always ignore the teacher to some extent. The "Back Row" students will always find distractions; even if they have to bring a switch/hub and some ethernet cables and play games against one-another, they'll do it. Our primary lab was wired with a 2:1 ratio of ethernet ports to computers, therefore allowing every student to also bring a laptop with them (which was, for various reasons, against policy, but I digress). To get around the problem of students playing games, chatting on ${MESSENGER}, surfing the web - many teachers would instruct the students to close all laptops and turn off all monitors. There were few rare exceptions for the students who actually took lecture notes on their computers, but those were typically sitting at or near the front and were few and far between.
Perhaps these instructors could simply ask the disruptive students who obviously aren't paying attention why they're there? After all, if they just want to use the network and play games / horse around - couldn't they do that in the school's lounge, student centre, cafeteria, etc..? If they continue to not pay attention, they could be asked to leave, lest they disrupt the remainder of the class. Sure, they have a right to be there based on the money they've paid - but they don't have the right to disrupt the class for the dozens of others who've also paid thue same amount.
This is true. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Attention span (Score:3, Insightful)
oh wow you must know so much about giving lectures, you TEACH ANIMATION, I'm sure in your animation class you have to teach alot of syntax right?
Face it, in what you teach it doesnt really matter what you say or how bad your accent is, you teach animation, you dont need to explain in detail certain terms.
Lets give a lesson on C in bad english and see how much you can learn.
#inkluude
ent main()
{
printf("hellow world");
retuurn zero;
}
Yeah thats how you write C code in flawed syntax. Should I teach students that this is really how to write C?
People who cannot speak should not give speeches just like people who cannot read and write should not make it through grade school, I dont care if you are Mike Tyson or George Bush, if you cannot speak, and you cannot read and write you have no business being on TV talking to millions of people giving speeches on national security, or trying to use big words at press confrences that you cant say right.
Bush gets on TV and embarrasses our country with some of his speeches, I'm sure iraqis look at him and pronouce words better than he does, This isnt about race, its about ability.
Tony Blair can get on TV and give a speech and its proper, George Bush gets on TV and gives speeches that a 5th grade could have wrote.
"These evil terrarists" and "Them bad guys" and "We must stop dem from causin terra on our peoples"
I'm supposed to listen to garbage like this?
I respect him only because his president, but i dont like his speeches and I think he should let the vice President or Collin Powell talk for him.
I'm sorry but if you think I'm a racist because I dont like people with accents giving speeches I cant understand, perhaps you also believe that people who dont learn to read and write in school are victims of racism too? yeah blame race on everything.
Some thoughts (Score:5, Insightful)
As for universities, grades are the answer. My guess is that these students want to work chat and email in class, yet pull an easy "A" at the end of the semester. When they get a "C", or fail a class, perhaps they will make the right decision. If not, it's evolution in action.
Re:Some thoughts (Score:4, Insightful)
If I'm making no noise, and have an easy grasp of the course material, who says I have to sit there or even take notes unless the class requires participation? I've had a disdain for professors who either require attendance and/or "undevided attention" when I know the course material or no participation in class ins necessary.
At work, yes. You are required to participate in meetings. But in college, it's totally different.
On the other hand (Score:5, Insightful)
As a former student, soon to be teaching, I'm torn on this one. The difference between my best and my worst classes has often been student engagement. When half the class is zoning out, I find it that much harder to be interested in the material. When everyone around me is bright-eyed and bushy-tailed (whether it be because the material is interesting, or because they know their performance depends on their absorbing the material), the attitude is contagious. In-class teaching is valuable, and very often provides more than any textbook. And for god's sake, you didn't pay $n,000 dollars to get the same education you could get from a video-correspondance course.
I wish more professors moved from dry lecturing to a slightly more socratic class style. In the absence of that, they might at least making the material important enough that you can't afford to miss it (ie, not a re-hash of the textbook chapter.) At very least, it's not unreasonable to make attendance non-mandatory and demand that the people who don't want to be there go check their email somewhere else.
There's the good teachers, and the bad ones. (Score:3, Interesting)
That being said, I slept in class. I don't know what it is about classes, but unless the teacher made it interesting, I couldn't stay awake. There was only one class that I did particularly poorly on [not an A or B] in college -- Fluid Dynamics [mind you, I got an A the semester before in Hydraulics, which I had to get the pre-req of Fluid Dynamics waved for].
I feel strongly that it had to do with the teaching style -- the teacher wouldn't even let you take notes in his class, because 'if you were writing, you weren't listening, and if you're not listening, you're not learning'. To make matters worse, I found the teacher to be particularly boring. He read from the book. That was the class -- him reading from the book, putting a few problems up on the overhead, and you sitting there, bored out of your skull. [Oh, and he wrote the book, too, so it's not like he added stuff that wasn't in the book, or could read the book for a slightly different explaination].
Now, I did my best to not be a distraction for people in class. Although I had a Richochet modem, I didn't make a feature out of the fact that I wasn't paying attention to the class. I took an Oracle DBA certificate program last year, and there were three people sitting in the second row, who kept looking at web pages, talking to each other, taking cell phone calls while the teacher was talking, etc.
I don't believe that you need absolute undivided attention. [ie, if you got the concept right off, and the teacher's explaining it to a few people who needed some clarification, okay, I'd glance over at my screen], but the teacher should be your primary focus for the class, and if you become a distraction, I think you should be removed from the class so you don't impact other people's education.
[Oh -- and in the course last summer -- those same three people installed AIM, and were using they joys of networking to cheat on tests... one more strike against technology in the classroom].
Personally, I find that I pay the most attention in class when I can understand how the material affects me. Of course, everyone has different experience, and finding how to make the material relate to each of the students can be a difficult task. [I view the 'meet the students' first day one of the most important days of class... especially if the teacher asks what you're expecting to get out of the class]
Re:On the other hand (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, granted, there will inevitably be students who are too easily distracted -- "Oooh, shiny!" -- to pay attention even to good profs. You know what? Screw 'em? The rest of the class, both students and professor, will know who those people are, and work around them. In the rare cases where those people are geniuses who just get the material without paying attention in class, well, good for them. In the much more common case where they're goof-offs, well, their grades will show that at end of term.
Re:On the other hand (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a bit of an elitist about the distraction problem, I guess. I started grad school when my marriage was in the final stage of falling apart -- and buddy, there ain't no Wi-Fi connection in the world that's as distracting as that. And I still pulled straight A's. So, to those who can't concentrate because they really feel the need to go a few more rounds of Quake, I say: grow the fuck up. It helps when Mommy and Daddy aren't paying your way, of course
Re:Some thoughts (Score:4, Insightful)
As a former teacher at a major university, I can say that I wouldn't care if you don't pay attention. I *would* care, however, when students are checking their email or IM'ing each other because that activity inevitably distracts other students who *are* trying to pay attention, just the same as students who are whispering to each other constantly or passing notes. Images changing on a screen in front of a student can't help but draw their attention away. Hell, if laptops weren't necessary for a particular class, I would even consider disallowing use of *those* because the cacophony of keyboards-a-clicking is very distracting.
My stance was always that I didn't care if you came to class or not, but I did care if your decision affected other students.
Theres a big difference (Score:2)
The people are getting paid to do a job and paid to go to those meetings, but say your job is to entertain your customers, say you are a COMEDIAN, and your only role is to keep their attention and make them laugh, and these people boo and ignoore you.
Do you get mad at the audience and say "why arent you cheering? stop booing me!! if you dont stop booing me I'm going to charge you TWICE!!!! PAY ATTENTION TO ME OR ELSE"
Or do you actually do your job and stop blaming the people you work for?
Re:Some thoughts (Score:2)
If a student feels they already have the requisite knowlege to get an 'A' why shouldn't they skip class entirely or work on other things in the class so long as they aren't disrupting other students? At the end of the year they'll either get the 'A' and be vindicated or not and have learned a valuable lesson. I've already mentioned elsewhere in this discussion that for one of the courses I did at uni the entire class decided after the first few weeks that their learning experience would be better served by self study than by attending the lectures. Not one of us got below a 'B' (infact there were only a few people didn't get an 'A') mainly because instead of spending 3 hours a week listening to him droning on we just read the material and discussed it in informal sessions in the pub.
Part of the learning experience at college is learning to manage your time. If a student believes that their learning would be better served elsewhere why should they waste time at a lecture (maybe skip lectures in a subject they already know well to spend more time on a subject they are struggling with). If students abuse that then, like you indicated, their grades will reflect that.
Stephen
A sign of the times (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, many classes are very boring and students will lose interest regardless of what toy is in front of them, but I think professors have a right to limit distactions.
Not a distraction (Score:3, Interesting)
God forbid that the college tuition we pay, that has topped the CPI for so long, be used to recruit better professors instead of funding projects that students don't use.
Phoenix
Re:A sign of the times (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A sign of the times (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure at one time people didn't see the need for kids to take pen and paper to class either. It's a new age, and there are new tools available to help kids learn more stuff, and learn it better. We should encourage their use for learning, rather than discouraging their use entirely.
It's up to the professor to exploit the tools the kids have. For example, what if the professor says "Can somebody do a quick Google search to see what the consequences of the US joining the second world war later would have been?". Admitted, it's a contrived example, but computers are a powerful informational tool, and professors are to teach information. They should exploit this tool.
It still disheartens me to see all the students just wasting their time.
Students have always, and will always waste their time. This is a fact of life. If they are interfering with the class with their time-wasting, that's a human problem. Removing the computers will not solve this problem, because the problem existed long before computers were even invented.
New toys are fun but they do not work well in an academic environment.
The fact that computers are treated as toys is in itself, the problem. Make them a tool for education, not a toy for distraction. This is up to the professors and not the students, really. Wouldn't it be great if the professor gave html versions of their class notes to their students to view during the lecture? Then the student could fill them in with more detail than they would have had if they had to take the notes completely themselves, and then have more information to use while studying. At least the information would have more depth, and therefore be more meaningful.
Hell, I'm against putting a computer in every classroom in primary schools. What use is a computer that occasionally gets used to play some dumb little educational game this is several levels below what is being taught in the class.
This is also a human problem. Again, like I've said several times before, this is people not exploiting the tools that they have before them. It's up to the teacher to use the tool to benefit the class. Do the teachers need better software to do this? Arguably, yes. Do the teachers need training to exploit this tool? Definitely, yes. Does it do any good to slap one in every classroom (or on every kid's desk, where it could do the most good) without providing the necessary infrastructure (including software) to use it? No.
A tool is only as useful as the people using them allow them to be. Computers are a great tool for storing, retrieving, modeling, et al, information. Let's use them that way. But they still only do what they've been told to do.
Re:A sign of the times (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll cut you slack because it was an example pulled out of your hat. But it really would be a terrible use of a computer in the classroom. Your professor is asking for not just a simple, noncontroversial "fact", but rather a historical judgement.
Even if you could come up with a decent Google query and find a good matching page within a minute or two (before the class moves on), you don't have time to read and assess the argument. All you can do is parrot what you've found. This is a good question for an essay, written with careful consideration, but not good for a quick in-class lookup.
Also, this is a good example of one of the biggest dangers of Googling, particularly for students. I'll call it the Law of Distorted Significance, though someone else may have described this otherwise. In a database of content and metacontent (e.g., Google) which is sufficiently large and diverse (created by millions of people around the world), you will find nearly *anything*. That much is shown by the difficulty of googlewhacking. The danger is that you can conclude that what you've found has real significance.
Re:A sign of the times (Score:3, Interesting)
I run two computers concurrently. And have two screens for one so that I can log remotely into another couple of machines. Usually I have the TV going as I work.
My point? I multi-task and it was something I honed over years. If I had to solely listen to the professeur I would daydream and get bored because he would not speak fast enough. These days most people are very verbose and 60% of what they say is a repeat of the original text.
Do the professors have a right to limit distractions? NO! If the student does not make noises then the professeur has no right to say anything. When I was in university I used to doodle, talk, sleep while the professeur was talking. When the professeur was interesting then I listened. And that is the key, the professeur has to get you excited about learning. Classes do not have to be boring! That is what many professeurs do not understand. Remember a professeur is there to teach you, not be in awe of their "brillance".
Re:A sign of the times (Score:5, Interesting)
*raises eyebrows* Excuse me? We've "become" multi-tasking capable? Humans have been multi-tasking capable for thousands of years. It's part of our nature. And who, exactly, doesn't "realize" this, as you assert?
I don't mean to rip on you SerpentMage, I just get irritated at people who not only think they've just "discovered" something that's obviously extremely old, but who also think they're in some sort of elite few who know it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not that special. Virtually everyone multi-tasks, you just don't see it because you're too in awe of your own mastery of simultaneously reading Slashdot and watching Star Trek, while compiling a kernel.
Classes do not have to be boring! That is what many professeurs do not understand.
Again, this is a ridiculous statement, offered only to serve your own ego. I challenge you to find me one single professor anywhere on the planet who sincerely believes that "classes are supposed to be boring." That's absurd. No one thinks that.
And at the risk of turning this into a spelling flame, perhaps you should have paid more attention to your English professor while you were busy learning to multi-task in grade 8.
Re:A sign of the times (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember one kid in high school that would Doodle with his left hand, take notes with his right hand and read something from a different class.. the teacher many times tried to bust "steve"... by saying when she was sure he was just screwing around.. "so what is the answer to this steve?" and without even looking up from his math book would give the correct answer... usually like "That's really easy... it's Sodium-di-chromate in an aquous solution" or something else that blew her mind, and everyone else.
There are TRUE multitaskers... who really can do many things at once... and they are ultra rare...
Hwo do you know it's interesting? (Score:5, Insightful)
So while sleeping you multi-tasking brain was able to wake you up when the prof got interesting?
wtg.
Re:A sign of the times (Score:5, Insightful)
What people do not realize is that people have become multi-tasking capable.
I've been a professor for many years. I've won awards for my teaching. I have a strong reputation among students for being a good teacher. So I am not just being a dick when I say:
What students do not realize is that they are not as multi-tasking capable as they think.
I am not being paid by you to lecture for a micro-century and then go home. I am not being paid by you to give you tests and grade them. You are paying for my expertise in teaching you the material. I say that when you are in my class you should be paying attention. You don't think that you should have to. You know what? I know more about this issue than you do. I say that when you are in my class, and we break into groups to discuss a calculus topic, that you should be listening to and talking to your classmates for that part of class. You don't see the point. You know what? I know more about this issue than you do. You are paying for my judgement.
Part of college may be the process of learning "time management" and all that, but you know what? I don't give a shit. In my calculus class, the only thing I care about is that you learn calculus. And, as a result of my experience in teaching, and research in education, I've found that if I insist on your attention, you will learn a hell of a lot more about it. I've done experiments to that end, have you? I've read literature about it. Have you? I've taught calculus to thousands of students. Have you?
My classes are usually interesting, according to my students, so this isn't that much of an issue for me. But you know what? You would have learned more if you listened all the time. Not all subjects are Monty Python's Flying Circus. Even though my classes tend to be fun in general, sometimes I will warn the students, "Gang, this is going to be a dry fifty minutes, and I'm sorry." and then I will procede to bore the fuck out of them. (Measure Theory wouldn't "VOOM" if you put four million volts through it) There are techniques that, as a professor, I can employ to help you through the dull spots. But even if a professor doesn't do that, tough titty.
If I had to solely listen to the professeur I would daydream and get bored because he would not speak fast enough
Then daydream. Get bored. Life is not always like Nintendo. If all of your professors bore you, then maybe you are in the wrong major, or at the wrong university.
I have not mentioned my particular policies re: attendence, laptops, doodling, etc. My policies are irrelevant to this discussion. The point is that you are paying the professor to exercise her or his judgment when setting those policies, and the professor likely knows more about it than you do.
Shouldn't matter (Score:4, Funny)
On a funny side note one guy in one of my classes WAS looking up pr0n while in class, all the people behind him were wide-eyed looking at it... that's how he got busted.
Re:Shouldn't matter (Score:3, Insightful)
Not everyone finds network analysis interesting, but it is a required part of the cirriculum for many comp sci degrees. Some people find it fascinating.
It is not the material that makes it boring or interesting, it is the student. People have different interests. Not all subjects are inherently interesting to everyone. But they still must learn it, if they want that piece of paper.
Re:Shouldn't matter (Score:2)
porn gazing (Score:3, Interesting)
A rare example of legitimate social Darwinism.
A manager at a major newspaper (I knew the general counsel) got canned for watching porn at work -- in his glass office. To me, it would have been perfectly fair to fire him for being an idiot.
How sad... (Score:4, Insightful)
Charge more for tuition (Score:2)
Resources are unlimited, colleges get money from tuition, not to mention they get money from the state.
Maybe if teachers worked with technology instead (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, technology is good, WiFi is good, a smart teacher would use WiFi and the fact that all the students have laptops and AIM to their advantage, to get the students communicating better with each other through AIM, and to talk about the class.
The teacher could even bring his own laptop, add their AIM screen names to his AIM account, and talk to students via AIM.
This is college not highschool, a teacher cannot try to blame the students for lack of attention, students pay you with THEIR money so that you can get their attention, these people want to learn and pay to learn, if you arent doing a good job and they think your lecture is a complete waste of time they dont have to pay attention.
I've had great teachers give lectures and it doesnt even feel like a lecture, it feels like conversation because the teacher gets people involved, its even entertaining sometimes!
Then we have lectures where teachers read off a peice of paper going down a list of things they must talk about, perhaps some boring as hell subject like computer programmer, and the teacher is from india and cannot speak english properly, some people just should not lecture!!!
In this situation you'd be better off getting your information from the internet than listening to the lecturer guide you step by step on how to write hello world.
Wi Fi is good, schools need to learn to use technology to their advantage.
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids surfing porn/slashdot/etc during class is not integral to the education process.
The teacher could even bring his own laptop, add their AIM screen names to his AIM account, and talk to students via AIM
Um, they're all in the same room, why on earth would that be of any use to anyone? They don't need their computer with them at all times to add someone to their AIM list unless they are incapable of writing it down on a piece of paper (a distinct possibility in our age of techno-worship).
This is college not highschool, a teacher cannot try to blame the students for lack of attention, students pay you with THEIR money so that you can get their attention, these people want to learn and pay to learn, if you arent doing a good job and they think your lecture is a complete waste of time they dont have to pay attention.
Have you been to college? I knew many students who felt that since they were paying to attend, they should be guaranteed passing grades and shouldn't have to be bothered with things like homework or tests or showing up. My dad taught college for 30+ years and in the last 10 I can't count the number of parents who had the same attitude. "We're paying your salary, you have to give him a passing grade even if he never came to class."
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:2)
IM can be used so students who want to ask questions in private without annoying other students can.
I dont believe just by paying im required to get a passing grade but i do expect them to pass me if I do my part of the contract, if it says I have to pass test X and i pass it, I better get a passing grade.
Why use AIM when everyone is in the same room? (Score:3, Insightful)
As for bad profs, I agree. The problem is the University makes a lot of money off of research grants. Hence, they're very interested in how much research money the prof will bring in, and not interested enough in how well the prof teaches. In my view, the priorities are skewed. I long for the legendary days before "publish or perish."
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay, but you have to realise that wifi doesn't really add many possibilities to a lecture beyond what is capable with projectors and simple discussion. For instance:
As opposed to simply talking to them?
Agreed 100%. It's the student's responsibility to learn using the available resources - if they dick around instead of paying attention, then they won't get very far.
Been there, done that...
In this situation, you'd be better off pointing it out to their superiors. If the lecturer is redundant, then it's a waste of money to employ them. If there is anything to be gained from having a lecturer, then their students are being cheated.
I don't see how "lecture notes available through the internet" translates to "wifi in lecture halls is useful" though. If the lectures aren't useful to you, skip them and download the notes from wherever you like.
Another annoyance: Students googling for ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Must be rather annoying in history, litterature or philosophy classes, when teachers no longer can pull the wool over their pupil's eyes to push their own agenda...
Sounds like an update (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sounds like an update (Score:2)
I shall act as if I have no sense of humour (debatable anyway...) and pick on the nugget of truth ingrained in the joke.
When I was at University (90/92) I used to leave a dictaphone running in some of the lectures. This wasn't so that I could snooze however - quite the opposite. It was so that I could listen and follow what was being said, rather than getting bogged down in just copying everything that was said to paper.
Tape recorders can be useful, so long as your intent is good.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:2)
I totally agree! At college students are responsible for their own learning so if the lecturer is failing to provide a suitable learning environment then they can't blame the students for not showing up or for doing other things whilst sitting in class and then getting their learning another way (if they choose to not show up and don't make up the learning elsewhere then they, the student, have a problem but that's a separate issue).
One of the things that suprised me, not having attended a US college, about Season 4 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer was the attitude exhibited to the students by the lecturers, dissmissive or even downright hostile. At first I thought it was just the fact that it was fictional but what suprised me even more was talking to friends who had attended, and were still attending, US colleges and being told that that was normal and expected. Seriously, if a UK lecturer tried any of those things then, based on my own experience at University of Keele in North Staffordshire (1989-93), they would be on academic disiplinary charges within days.
I did have some crap lecturers, one's 'lectures' consisted of him reading out the handouts verbatim in a dull monotone. In this case by the 4th week the entire class were just showing up to pick up the hand outs then disapearing off to read them in the Student's Union bar. By the 6th week we had got into the habit of getting together for informal bull sessions after reading to work out what the heck it was all about, leading to a discursive learning method, one of the best courses I ever did actually!
In another course I stopped attending after the 3rd session because it was an area I already knew a lot about. In the exam I got the best grade out of the entire group for that course.
Stephen
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:3, Interesting)
That is, part at least, of the point! As an adult (and yeah college students should be considered adults, heck HS Seniors deserve at least some degree of adult treatment) I am responsible for getting the most out of my educational experience at college. If I believe that the best use of my time is not attending a particular lecture and am prepared to justify that then it should be my decision.
At 18 a US college student has a minimum of 12 years of experience of studying, a UK student 14 years. If the primary and secondary educators have done a good enough job then the student should be able to make reasonable decisions as to if they need to attend lectures. I don't see it as the lecturers job to police attendance to sessions where the student could make up the work on their own time. It might be required to attend lab sessions and tutorials, sessions where practical skills must be demonstrated or where progress is checked, but lecturers need to realize that their prefered style of lecture may not be the best method of learning for all their students.
There's an old joke about lectures being the transfer of information from the lecturer's notes to the student's notes without lingering in the brains of either. Unfortunately many lecturers, and students, see that as the truth or even a requirement.
If I'm signed on a course because it is a requirement but it's for something I already can do then why should I be made to attend lectures telling me what I already know. As part of an electronics programme I was doing I had to do a course in Pascal programming. Assessment was based on a single programming assignment that had to be completed by 3 weeks after the end of the 10 week course. At the end of the first session I asked what the assignment was (it was to write a program to perform polynomial arithmatic) and by the start of the second I handed in the completed program with fully documented source code and printouts of test series performed. I already knew more about Pascal than I would ever learn on that course and I could look up what I needed to know about Polynomials (I'd never even heard the term before that assignment, and weren't covered on the course anyhow) so I didn't need to attend the course.
Failing a student for non-attendance of lectures is pure abuse of power.
Stephen
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:4, Insightful)
You really aren't asking professors to be interesting, you are asking them to be entertaining, more entertaining than what students can find on a 'net connection. That almost never happens and isn't really a plausible goal anyway.
Even if the students are paying for school themselves, they're not buying the right to be rude, to the teacher or to their fellow students. Students can't properly judge whether a lecture is a waste of their time while it's going on, only when the course is over or maybe after their next assignment.
There are certainly many people who do not teach well, especially in a "sage on the stage" setting, and schools could use less of that format but that's no excuse for being so disrespectful and a distraction to your classmates.
Re:Maybe if teachers worked with technology instea (Score:2)
Look, technology is good, WiFi is good, a smart teacher would use WiFi and the fact that all the students have laptops and AIM to their advantage, to get the students communicating better with each other through AIM, and to talk about the class.
The teacher could even bring his own laptop, add their AIM screen names to his AIM account, and talk to students via AIM.
Wow. $100k+ worth of technology to enable a group of people sitting in the same room to communicate with each other! Why didn't they think of this before? We wouldn't have to bother with such pesky things as talking, taking turns or other aspects of organized civil behavior.
I experienced several lecturers that were dead boring, but my friends who are professors and are good at and want to teach say that the problem isn't so much with them -- although they acknowledge their own academic tendency to run on about tertiary issues -- but with institutions of higher learning that are more interested in being research engines.
Professors that spend a lot of time making interesting lectures don't do as much research, don't get grants, don't advance, and don't get resources. Unversities spend their money building lavish facilities for research and money-making activities, not hiring undergrad instructors. They cram hundreds of students into lecture halls that resemble large movie theaters -- and we wonder why the lecture seems boring or there's little student interaction?
And then the Universities claim they *need* to get research dollars since its what gives them prestige and status, that means more tax dollars and alumni contributions. Political correctness demands they admit thousands of unprepared or incapable students who require two years of essentially remedial instruction (cf crowded, boring lecture halls), draining resources for small-class professor-class interaction.
I think that many academics are low tech and some revel in being so, but being pissed off at the University for spending money to enable students to nullify what little classroom experience they can deliver isn't at all surprising. It's simple, easy and dead wrong to lay all the blame on professors. I won't even start on the spoiled, ignorant students and their massively misplaced sense of entitlement...
Passing notes in class (Score:2, Interesting)
Those who are surfing the net now would have been passing notes in class or listening to headphones years ago. If they really want to change this they could start kicking out students for apathy, but all that would do is make the schools go broke while professors spoke to near-empty rooms.
Don't forget, those apathetic students are paying to keep the school running for those who actually listen in class.
We had this problem too... (Score:5, Interesting)
Why? Maybe if professors USED the technology (Score:2)
They wouldnt have to block it.
Maybe if the professor actually got on IM and talked to students, maybe if the professor interacted more with them instead of just talking a boring scripted lecture students would have reason to pay attention.
Look, I wont pay attention to a lecture unless the lecture is teaching me something i didnt know, or the lecture is actually engaging in some way, that causes me to interact with the teacher or with other students.
If a teacher is just reciting a book, I dont need to pay attention i can just read the book.
Wish I had wireless when I was a student. (Score:3, Insightful)
What the professor is really thinking is "Crap, this lesson is a one page 'for dummies' FAQ online, I better pad this with some bullshit."
It's just a new thing.... (Score:2)
Give it a few months(and some bad exam results
just my 2 cents...
Professors are being paid... (Score:3, Insightful)
That seems reasonable to me for many of the undergrad courses I took, which I only took because they were requirements.
At any rate, professors were being paid with my money...they shouldn't care if I skipped class or did the crossword or surfed the net as long as I didn't disturb any of the other students.
Who cares? (Score:2)
These professors should lighten up and get with the times.
Not high school (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not high school (Score:2)
just block extranet access? (Score:2)
that said, i do think if a professor is interesting enough or if classroom time is important enough, this problem won't exist. back in my college days i'd get distracted from classes too - but i'd just stay at home and surf the net
Re:just block extranet access? (Score:3, Insightful)
Very few college students are capable of determining whether a lecture is worthwhile or not.
What is wrong with kids today? (Score:5, Funny)
Sigh, the times we live in.
Distracting (Score:3, Funny)
I remember downloading shareware quake from cdrom.com and playing a few multiplayer...
teacher walks over "what next?"
me "uhh derive it!" (always the best answer)
The funnest part was using something similar to winpopup (must have been netware or something) and typing "pay attention!" to people across the room.
Double-Edged Sword (Score:2)
However, my dorm was close enough to one of the academic buildings that if I sat near the window, I could pick up the signal from the AP in my room. I used my laptop in one class to pull/update files in CVS on my dorm server for a programming class I was taking. This was great for me, as I could get anything I needed from my computer back in my room, without worrying "did I put all the files on the disk for the professor?". Of course, I had another class that was so boring, my use of wi-fi allowed me to quietly chat with friends and do other work that needed to be done. Granted, it was a UNIX class, and there's only so much you can learn about vi, ls, cat...I just wanted credit for the course
Life is not MTV (Score:5, Insightful)
Life is not a constant stream of entertainment. The most rewarding things in life come from blood, sweat and tears and an education is one of them. While I think you should enjoy your chosen field of study, I don't think is has to compete on the same level as the latest Eminem video or an email of how your friend saw this really hot chick at Wal-Mart.
Besides, I don't even think it's possible to make all courses entertaining to all. Do you as, say a programmer, expect to really get into Classic Greek Literature 540 as a form of entertainment?
Does Sesame Street have a university?
So professors get paid just to show up (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the hell do we need professors then? If they are paid just to show up and force you to look at them, what exactly is it that they do if they dont give good lectures?
Hard work is one thing, but we are PAYING them, they arent free, they arent giving up anything here, we pay them to do what we want them to do, and thats give an exciting lecture.
I dont think you'll find alot of college students who agree with your opinion that lectures should be boring and dull, people want their moneys worth.
All courses can be entertaining to the majority of the people if the courses are interactive and engaging.
You want to make a boring course like C programming fun? Find someone who can speak REALLY well, not someone from india with an accent.
Find someone who can communicate the basics of programming but in a unique way, complete with jokes, and very detailed explainations including visual.
The good lectures usually arent 100 percent focused strictly on that topic, they drift off alittle bit but the lecturer makes sure to get the point across, students get to talk and ask questions, talk about personal things, so that it feels more like group discussion instead of just blah blah blah blah where students just sit and listen.
Re:Life is not MTV (Score:2, Funny)
You work for the DMV, don't you?
Re:Life is not MTV (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, life's tough. You gotta take what you can get and do your best, often in spite of the obstabcles. I do wonder, however, how many careers were launched by that lady and how many careers were re-directed or just doused by the others. (ps. And why can't Classic Greek Literature 540 be interesting? Who would you rather talk to? Someone who talks to you because they have to or because they want to?)
As an... (Score:3, Informative)
When I'm confident that they've gotten the point or the majority of them had, I would then hand out an addendum to their notes covering what we just discussed.
This would be a commonplace event, happening most likely once per classroom day.
Teachers are teachers, not babysitters (Score:3, Insightful)
It is the teacher's job to teach, not make sure that everyone is paying attention and doing their work. A good teacher will try to get everyone involved (it's especially funny when they call on a sleeping student to answer a question; that kind of embarassment solves a lot of attention problems). But it is not their job to assume the responsibility that ultimately belongs to the students.
Now in grade school, this is a little more complicated, but that's a discussion for another article...
Social Engineering? (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't give me this "I pay your salary BS." If you don't want to listen to the lecture, stay in your room and surf porn. But, if I'm the teacher, it is my duty to deliver what you paid me to deliver. If I ask you to kindly treat me with a tad bit of respect and close the lid on your laptop, then just do it.
Re:Social Engineering? (Score:4, Funny)
So teachers get paid even if they suck and students get punished when teachers suck?
What responsibility does a professor have besides showing up if this is the case?
They show up and they get paid, you show up and you have to follow strict guidelines on how to pay attention and act interested. Oh and you have to pay them for it.
The Scourge of Daydreaming (Score:3, Insightful)
But...
1. Students ought not to be able to pass unless they pay attention in class.
2. Teachers ought to say something not available elsewhere.
My Experience w/ WiFi in class (Score:2, Interesting)
The main use that the laptops received was Kazaa and various Gnutella clients. This was mostly for downloading full length movies, pirated software, MP3s, and also for pr0n.
During class a lot of people would just watch movies they downloaded, or play UT. Nothing like seeing a multiplayer deathmatch in the middle of class. IMing was also big, and it was always funny when someone forgot to turn off sound on their laptop.
Why would people go to a program/pay for college just to watch pr0n and play games? I don't know. However, this just shows that wifi in class is a bad idea. One in ten will use it for education, but nine in ten will use it for Kazaa and AIM.
Also, the class I remember the most from is the one where the professor made us turn off our laptops.
Battery life (Score:3, Interesting)
The solution? Well, why not put power sockets in the desks? So much for wire-less. Might as well put network sockets in as well and give the kiddies 10Mb each instead of sharing an AP or two.
Baz
WiFi isn't a problem but a symptom (Score:2, Interesting)
Teacher's Ego (Score:2, Interesting)
The only teachers that hassled me about sleeping were those whose egos were personally diminished by my choice to ignore their lecture.
I don't see sleeping in class as bad, or playing on one's laptop. If I had laptops in college, I could have done homework for one class in another!
Degree Vs Education (Score:4, Insightful)
Usually, those who want an education are those who are paying attention in class.
It's catching (Score:2, Informative)
In all fairness .... (Score:2)
I have been on both sides of the coin, so I think I have a very unique perspective on this.
I was in a class with a boring prof, and I will (reluctantly) admit that I played Age of Empires in the back row of class one day. What can I say, I wasn't learning anything new and it was BORING! And to top that off, the prof had two hearing aids and is half blind
I pride myself on giving very interactive presentations, but sometimes you just can't spice up a lecture that is about as fun to listen to as it is to watch paint dry
So lets just get down to it and give the solution:
Students should only be permitted to use PC's, Palms, etc during LAB SESSIONS!
Seriously, there really is no need for students to bring a lap top to a lecture unless they don't plan on paying attention
Bottom line: Listen to lecture or (play video game, chat with friends about how silly the prof's hair looks)
Just my $0.02 cents
Why should professors care? (Score:2)
Well at my school... (Score:3, Informative)
supplementary material to the lecture (some reference PDF of quick notes, very handy if you forget some bit of C code, et al.),
the lecture notes themselves (usually power point, sometimes PDF or HTML),
work being done (it's nice to be able to write your code while the stuff is still fresh in your mind),
Slashdot (imagine that)
BattleTech armor guidelines (I guess it was more interesting than NP completeness)
These are among other things. I do think it's nice to have instance reference, and to be able to do homework during class if a lecture isn't particularly interesting or engaging.
That having been said, I don't bring a laptop. I don't find that any of those things need to be done during class, and that I can live without them until lectures and labs are done for the day. Not just that, but laptops can get a bit heavy after carrying the between a few classes. At least, in addition to other notebooks and texts.
I might add that I don't take notes on my laptop either. I tried a few times, and while maybe some of you have had a different experience, I find taking notes on a laptop is very limiting. I draw lots of little diagrams and figures in my notes which is difficult to do quickly in most text editors.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for laptops and wireless devices. Since we all are required to have laptops, labs are much cheaper. Rather than lots of desktop machines in a dedicated room, a few tables and chairs with CAT5 can be a fully functioning lab. This has its own problems (IM, Email, etc) but the room can be a small lecture room, or non-computer based class when the computer lab is done. This also worked in my high school [nmhschool.org], where laptops were required as well. Even for non-computer classes (e.g. English Lit) this had advantages, like being able to read free texts online without needing any paper copies, etc. It's a nice convenience.
With wireless all of this becomes even easier, and any room is a connected room. No longer is the CAT5 needed, or the desktop machine. It's a great advance in convenience.
Even after all that, I still try to take my computer labs in the actual labs with big desktop machines or terminals; I like the big screens and full keyboards and looking slightly up to the monitor rather than down. I still don't bring my laptop to class because I can take notes just fine on paper, if not better, and most things I'd need a computer for can wait until I'm done with class.
Big Boys Rulz in effect (Score:5, Interesting)
What about the "cattle call" classes that everyone has to take and even the instructor doesn't want to be there? My son's intro to C++ class was like that and he surfed the web while in that class. And did just fine in it. When my daughter had taken the same class the year before, she had made similar comments about the class. The instructor was bored and wanted to be teaching more advanced Unix courses but had to teach the intro course. She was not helpful to the students that tried to get her help. My daughter also did fine in the class, but she, like her brother had already taken an introductory C++ programming course in high school.
One of my instructors teaches his MIS course from Powerpoint slides that he just reads. Although capable of truly inspired teaching when he wanted to, he usually didn't (at least at the undergrad level. Ask me next year when I have to take him again post grad). He made attendance part of his grading above and beyond the university's policy of no more than 4 missed classes. Many times I sat in the back of his class and read my latest copy of Linux Journal or articles on my Palm. All of his class material was available on Blackboard before class. After 20+ years, I think he's bored too. Most of the class seemed to be only interested in achieving the minimum necessary to pass the course. Uninspired teaching, uninspired class, rote reading of slides; as they say, "Where's my motivation"?
The better professors won't have to worry. They'll hold the students attention and not worry about those that insist on not paying attention. Most of those students that don't pay attention are either tourists anyway or being held back by uninspired curriculum or professors. If TAs are teaching and can't hold the class, they shouldn't be teaching. That's not what I've been paying for. From the article it appears to be a number of issues are involved (as usual). WiFi is still new enough on campus that both faculty and students are still working out the roles of themselves and the technology. The implementation of any new technology is a bumpy road. I think that what this article really highlights.
Professor Glenn Reynolds weighs in ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Glenn Reynolds, author of the popular InstaPundit [instapundit.com] blog and a professor of law at the U. of TN offers this observation "I also tend to wander around the room a lot
Basically the way I read it, is if a professor is engaged in teaching his/her class, then he/she isn't going to have a problem keeping the students engaged as well.
Guess what (Score:4, Insightful)
whitelist? (Score:3, Insightful)
Enough "Connection Refused" pages accompanied with loud embarrassing noises will probably cause students to look for other forms of entertainment, maybe even the prof?!
As a Prof on a Wi-Fi campus (Score:5, Interesting)
My rules are few: Sound alerts must be turned off during class (especially those annoying IM moo noises) and Wi-Fi network access must be disabled during tests and examinations (I don't want my students surfing the net for answers when they should be writing). If you can abide by those rules (and the general campus rules for Wi-Fi access) you're welcome to compute during my class!
Attention & Consideration (Score:5, Insightful)
People who aren't going to pay attention, will not do so even without computers to entertain them. They might just stare off into space with no alternatives but taking away computers doesn't mean they are paying attention.
Being in class and doing anything besides participating in class in an appropriate manner is rude to the teacher and distracting your fellow students. The worst are people who come to class and then sleep. If you aren't interested, don't come. Which bring's me to my next point...
Mandatory attendance in a college class is (in general) stupid. There are fairly few non-lab courses where attendance actually matters. If someone prefers to get their material out of a book, let them. If being in class is important to passing the class, the students will figure that out. Teachers should think of class attendance as feedback on the difficulty of the material and the quality of the lecturing.
Conversely, if you (or your parents) are paying for a college education and you do not make every effort to get as much out of it as possible you are an idiot.
Yes, surfing the net is often more interesting than a lecture, but even a boring lecture often has useful information. Even the worst lectures (and I've had some very bad ones) usually contain something worth knowing. You are going to be dealing with boring meetings, boring tasks, and boring people for the rest of your career. You might as well learn how to get the most out of them.
The teacher's job is not to entertain you, it is to teach you. Effective teaching often correlates with being interesting to listen to but you can learn without being entertained.
Finally, don't be so arrogant and assume you know what is important about a subject better than the teacher. There is usually a reason the teacher is lecturing on the material they choose. They aren't doing it just to annoy you.
Hmmm.... (Score:3, Insightful)
As a student, I made the classes I felt necessary and skipped the ones I felt worthless. I was mature enough to understand that if I goofed, my GPA suffered. No problems, however, as I graduated in the top quarter of my class, both under & post graduate. As an instructor, it can be very frustrating if you have students who are actively not participating in the class, but I also understand that if I don't have the material to make the class interesting, there is little I can do to keep their attention. My only concern is whether or not the students who are choosing to pay attention & participate are not affected by these (admittedly few) other students........
Dear Profs: (Score:3, Interesting)
Mesh networks! (Score:3, Insightful)
It is still the responsibility of the student to learn the material, if they desire to pass the course in any reasonable fashion. The teacher doesn't *have* to give interesting lectures, but it is generally appreciated.
Demand attention? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the student who has voluntarily undertaken to pay huge gobs of money and invest huge gobs of their time to attend college.It was the student who voluntarily chose to sign up for my class. It was the student who chose to *show up* for class. I didn't leap out of my office, drive halfway across the country ( or the world), hold a gun to their head and insist they take my class.Hell, once they've signed up I don't even insist they attend.
This isn't high school I think some of you have a hard time wrapping your heads around that one.If you don't wish to participate, stay home.It's that simple.
Hell, you can even get an A in some of my classes without ever attending if the work you hand in deserves it.
What I don't understand is if you would really rather be surfing the web or playing Quake why you don't just stay in your room and do it? Wouldn't we both be more comfortable that way?
KFG
Once upon a time. . . (Score:3, Funny)
At this the tweed jacketed elder stiffened his back, lowered his chin, looked down his nose and said, "Young man, this is an institute of higher learning.*Here* we do not end our sentences with prepositions."
"Oh, I'm sorry," responded the freshman, " Can you please tell me where the library's at, Asshole."
KFG
For myself, as a student... (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe that if I hadn't had this laptop with me, I wouldn't have gone at all. For three straight semesters I ended up dropping all my classes out of a sort of lethargy and unwillingness to make the commute to school. This gives some added value to being there, and as a consequence I don't mind as much going to class.
But, mom! I don't wanna learn! (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a horrible memory and history was my worst subject in highschool and college. Does this mean I slept through all of my history classes? Believe it or not, no. I enjoyed many of my history teacher's lessons. I enjoyed listening and (more importantly) participating in the lecture. I still did poorly on many of the exams, but I was attentive in class and I really did learn a lot (in many cases, more than my higher-ranked peers.)
I think there is a "wrong" view of education by students. Many go to college so they can put "whatever degree in blahdittyblah" on their resumes. This means they will work only as hard as they need to in order to get that on their resumes. While an impressive resume is important. An education should be why people go to college, not an impressive resume.
I think this problem stems from how people are raised. In elementary/middle/highschool, people are rewarded for getting good marks on tests regardless on how they got that mark. If it was cramming the night before, or truly getting an understanding of the subject, they get the same mark, same reward. Most people (at least americans) tend to opt for the one that'll give them the most TV watching time (cramming the night before.) I hate to blame the parents (again) and TV (again) but I think parents shouldn't expose their young (0-6 year old) kids to much mainstream TV. Sure, let them watch PBS or even The Discovery Channel, but the networks that show nothing but colorful pictures with lots of noise should be used with extreme caution. Read to kids, encourage them to ask questions. Even more importantly, show them where to find answers and teach them how to think things through before asking questions.
Showing kids how to learn and use logic at an extremely young age (while their minds are still developing) will encourage them to enjoy learning and will get them to go to school to learn and not just to get a paper with a mark on it. Besides, how much respect does a frat boy that managed to memorize some tests answers and forget them right after the exam get when they go into the real world? Oh right... they get elected for presidency.
I can attest to the distraction (Score:3, Insightful)
The only thing that got me through it was my Ricochet connection in the class room. However I can say that it did distract me to such an extent in class that my grades suffered because of it. I actually ended up not passing one of the classes.
That being said I'm involved in wi-fi-ing the art department at the university I'm currently at for graduate school.
While it is true that teaching has to adapt to wi-fi usage, I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to force it to adapt. Just like any disruptive technology, the repurcusions outside its immediate sphere usually leads to a balancing effect upon other actants in the network it disrupts.
So basically: everything should adapt to pervasive connectivity, whether it likes it or not.
The Two-Headed Beast of SCIENCE!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Good point: Wireless networking allows students ways to remotely research class topics outside the classroom. Yes they could go to the library before, or stay in their dorm rooms and look this stuff up, but the new technology allows that work to fit more neatly into campus life. Result: More opportunity to study.
Bad point: Wireless networking allows students ways to slack off inside the classroom. Yeah, attention deficiency is nothing new in the classroom, but considering the things the modern laptop can do, its presence can be an awful temptation to those already inclined to play around. Result: More opportunity to ignore the teacher.
Both are valid, and to take one side is to trivialize the other.
As another aside, there's been some talk of whose fault it is students get bad grades. It's the teacher's responsibility to present the course's subject matter in a reasonable, easy-to-follow fashion. It's not his responsibility to spoon-feed the student a passing grade, no matter how undeserved.
Rule of thumb: if one student does poorly in a class, odds are it's the student's fault. If almoast everyone does poorly in a class, odds are it's the teacher's fault.
Profs should get in the game... (Score:4, Interesting)
Give the kids a class-topic wiki/blog and let the computers become a tool for student-student, student-grad.assistant, and student-prof communication. The prof could bring a grad.assistant to each class and have him/her answer questions that students have about the lecture in near-realtime as they appear on the wiki/blog. Give shy students a way to ask questions. Bonus points for students that answer each other's questions before the grad.assistant.
The profs are lagging behind the students. The students have rushed forward in a somewhat haphazzard fashion, but think of it as a case of spitballs and doodles. One doesn't end spitballs by taking away all paper or doodles by taking away all writing impliments. The best thing to do is to give the students something better to do with the tools. Some virtues that will draw their attention better than the available vices.
So whats the role of the professor that you pay? (Score:3, Interesting)
So I can be a professor, I can say a bunch of words, blah blah blah blah for about an hour or two, and you the student are required to stare at me while I say "blah blah blah" for 2 hours, and if you dont stare directly at me, I get to keep your money but you get to pay me again to take my class again until you can stand my class for 2 hours of listening to "blah blah blah"
Who wins here? Why should I the student pay YOU the professor to give YOU the professor my attention? What do I get out of this deal?
I should be paying you to GET my attention, to EARN it by giving good lectures, not paying you just for you to show up, because thats bullshit.
Re:So whats the role of the professor that you pay (Score:4, Informative)
Colleges and universities don't owe you an education. They owe you access to information in a format optimal for learning. You still must actually do something to get it.
Virtually all of the info you'd learn in university is available in libraries and on the internet. So why then do companies still prefer people with little pieces of paper? Because actions speak louder than words. Any basement-dwelling sociopathic geek can SAY they could learn how to calculate the Big O of various fibonnacci algorithms, but the paper proves that this person actually did learn what he was asked to learn. And that demonstrates that he could learn virtually anything else you ask him do. He's already demonstrated that he's a do-er, a go-getter. He's the one who actually participated in classes and made the effort to really understand the course material.
And that doesn't just mean paying attention in class - that means actually putting in effort outside of the classroom.
Profs are there to teach you. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not every class is a super-imortant, don't know it already class.
Example: I took ECON101, attended 5 lectures the entire semester and recieved an A. How did I do it? I did the required work and already understood the material. Why was I in the class?...to statisfy degree requirements. Luckily, they didn't take attendance, so I didn't have to go sit through lectures about this I already understood.
That's right, there are classes that you are actually required to take, even if you already know the material.
Not paying attention in class doesn't necessarily mean you're lost. Sometimes those kids who aren't paying attention, already know the material, and are just there becuase the prof. likes to give quizzes.
Doesn't anyone remember how boring it is to sit through someone drone on about something you already understand? (And I do mean drone, possibly with an unintelligble accent.) One of my favorite things about college is that if a lecture sucks, I can usually get up and leave. I can't always do that though, some classes actually require attendance, even when the lectures are totally passive experiences.
The important thing is not suffering through lousy lectures. The important thing is actually understanding the course material. That's why businesses want a degree: It shows that you've taken tests and passed them. (Or completed projects successfully.)
Second:
I really hate the "spoonfeeding" analogy. It's really a load of BS. I haven't heard that crap since HS. Teachers are there to teach you, not to hand you a book and say "I'm not going to spoonfeed you." I can read a book by my damnself. I do expect the prof. to "spoonfeed" me, as in, break the information into reasonable sized chunks and deliver it to me (a.k.a. lectures). If I have a question, I expect to be given an answer, not to have to suffer through analogies that compare me to an infant. Why do you think I'm paying to go to school? If someone thinks they're too important to answer questions, they shouldn't be involed in teaching. Provided the person isn't asking for test answers, there really isn't much of an excuse not to answer someone's question. Suffering is not equivalent to learing. Teachers should just answer questions, and if they think it was something the student should have been able to figure out on their own, the can ask the student a question about it. This way, they answer the student's question (as opposed to insulting them) and still get to make them think.
Re:Young Whippersnappers (Score:3, Funny)
The clicking is disturbing. But it is quieter than the snoring. There's nothing worse than trying to hear a lecture while the guy behind you makes a noise that sounds like a washer in spin cycle being flung down a flight of steps.
We used to sneak beer into Real Estate Class (Thurs at 6PM) in McDonald's cups. That made class much mo betta.