Microsoft Expert Witness Stumbles

parking_god writes "MIT prof Stuart Madnick, testifying on MS's behalf, was caught out twice when a government attorney asked him to name an OS (other than one made by Microsoft) where the browser couldn't be removed. Madnick also faltered on several other questions." Basically he doesn't understand what GNOME and KDE are, and since we're all holier-than-thou know-it-alls around here, we might as well laugh at Microsoft's expense ;)

Coincidental Slashdot Fortune

[DLWormwood]

He missed an invaluable opportunity to hold his tongue.
-- Andrew Lang

Talk about perfect timing for a random draw from the fortune file...

I also had to giggle

[theolein]

Quote: "I'm not trying to be evasive," Stuart E. Madnick, a computer science professor at MIT, said at one point. "I'm just trying to be precise."

He's working at the wrong place, he should be in someone's [microsoft.com] PR department.

surprised?

[pstreck]

Is anyone actually surprised by this. I mean come on, he's probably an MCSE too ;)

The only Answer

[KingKire64]

asked him to name an OS (other than one made by Microsoft) where the browser couldn't be removed

msLacky: Well of course you cant remove Netscape from the Mozilla Operating system.

No sir that isnt an OS

mslacky: But its EVIL!!! Ill get That damn Dragon and his little penguin too!!!!

Thats enough sir you can step down

mslacky: Dont you see him that peguin hes making fun of me... oh Mr penguin stay right there ill get you, bad Mr penguin

Simpsons

[hotsauce]

*Bully from Simpsons voice* HA-ha!

The most popular prof...

[Merk]

So lemme get this straight -- this guy is a CS prof at MIT, home of the FSF. He voluntarily agreed to testify on Microsoft's behalf, and then didn't know the difference between an operating system and a desktop environment?

Man, this guy's courses must be popular! I bet you really have to fight to get in to: "Introduction to flicking on the power switch thingy 101" and "How to click on the start menu 304"

I wonder ...

[smak]

I am not a lawyer, but what I would like to know is, how much MS pay a witness like this, to testify on their behalf? (if anything.)

smak.

--
b0rk!

Re:Know-It-Alls

[colmore]

*slaps head* forgot to put in HTML line breaks.

apypollylogies.

Cash for questions.....or answers

[h0tblack]

"Asked to evaluate language in the proposed settlements, Madnick studied the documents, then shook his head and said, "I somehow think there's something I'm missing, but I can't spot it at the moment."

The pre-prepared script from Microsoft that they had e-mailed to him perchance?
This mail was of course lost when someone sent him a malicious VB script entitled "How to make quick easy money".
;)

Re:wait a second...

[tb3]

This guy is clearly out of his depth. Here's his homepage [mit.edu] at M.I.T. He seems to be more of a management expert than anything else (kinda like a graduate-level PHB).

However, he is the auther of the classic textbook "Operating Systems". So classic that it was written in 1974, and has been long out of print. What the hell was MS thinking? This guy wouldn't know a GUI if it bit him!

shells

[mikeee]

You mean there are shells other than emacs??

Re:The most popular prof...

[billnapier]

DOS is an OS? Really? Maybe just barely...

The Master was explaining the nature of Tao to one of his novices.

"The Tao is embodied in all software -- regardless of how insignificant,"
said the Master.

"Is the Tao in a hand-held calculator?" asked the novice.

"It is," came the reply.

"Is the Tao in a video game?" asked the novice.

"It is even in a video game," said the Master.

"Is the Tao in the DOS for a personal computer?" asked the novice.

The Master coughed and shifted his position slightly. "The lesson is over
for today," he said.

Re:He is not part of (EE)CS

[taernim]

That seems like an excuse Microsoft might use.

Sure, he is with the School of Management. But if you read the Bio part of his homepage, there are some interesting parts.

Namely: "As part of this effort, he is the recent co-inventor on the patent applications "Querying Heterogeneous Data Sources over a Network Using Context Interchange" and "Data Extraction from World Wide Web Pages.""

Also: "He has been active in industry, making significant contributions as a key designer and developer of projects such as IBM's VM/370 operating system and Lockheed's DIALOG information retrieval system"

It seems to me if the man is capable of being a key designer as said in his own Bio, then one would expect him to have knowledge of... say... things you need to know when designing? The Internet is not a Microsoft-branded product. Therefore, developing a product to run on it should work with... Non-Microsoft products and machines.

Maybe I'm just crazy then...

Re: Good Bill Hunting

[BreakWindows]

I'm surprised they didn't find a janitor from MIT to testify.

Do you like Apple Macintosh?
*shrugs*
Well I got the highest mah-ket share. Howd'ya like dem Apples?

Re:IE is just a shell

[Grand Facade]

Which shell?

KRASH, of course....

"House of cards"

[Keith Russell]

How's this for a ringing endorsement of Microsoft's products?

[Madnick] showed the judge a diagram that depicted Windows as a system made up of dozens of oddly shaped, interconnected pieces.

Madnick said the diagram showed how Windows was like a "house of cards" that could collapse if any of the pieces were removed.

Emphasis mine. Source: ZDNet: Microsoft's MIT prof gets grilled by states [com.com]

Mind you, this was a witness for Microsoft. Amazing. Microsoft is so arrogant, it can claim gross incompetence to avoid incrimination, and still look forward to getting away with it.

Re:well, isn't he right?

[klaun]

The article ribs the witness for calling KDE an operating system. Well, no, KDE is a user interface / window manager / shell sitting on top of the Linux (or other) kernel. Same as Explorer, which is a user interface / window manager / shell on top of the Windows NT kernel (in NT/2000/XP anyway). Perhaps he should have said KDE/Linux, but do we really want to go there?

Well, I'll go right out and buy a copy of just the Windows NT kernel with no MS window manager and install that other window manager for the Windows/NT OS from ... um ... Oh I guess there isn't another window manager for MS OS, and come to think of it Microsoft doesn't offer their OS without a Window Manager. Come to think of it they claim a Window Manager is an integral part of an OS. Strange that... guess all those systems with no console don't run an OS.

Re:But what *is* an operating system?

[i0lanthe]

In this sense, Linux/KDE and Linux/GNOME both constitute OSes on which the web browser cannot be removed.

Except that someone else has already argued above that, in the case of KDE, it can. And probably by the time I post someone will say the same for Gnome.

I'm afraid I can't comment on which of you folks is actually right... since I use Linux/twm (fear my l33t "operating system" :-).

Re:shells

[egreB]

Nono. Well, emacs maybe a shell, Vi(m) is an whole beach.

Haha. Dunno if that worked in english, though.

Did you see his Microsoft projects?

[Kris Warkentin]

Co-Director, PRoductivity From Information Technology (PROFIT) Program: http://mitsloan.mit.edu/research/profit/index.html

Co-Principal Inbestigator, COntext INtercharge (COIN) project: http://context.mit.edu/~coin/

PROFIT and COIN - yep. Must be a Microsoft shill.

Re:don't be too polemic

[Rogerborg]

• it's true that any KDE-based distro is in the same situation as Windows is

It's 100% true... less a few tiny differences.

1. KDE isn't an operating system.
2. KDE isn't a monopoly operating system.
3. KDE isn't an illegaly leveraged monopoly operating system.

So apart from it being completely, utterly different to anyone but an uninformed hermit, it's exactly the same.

Re:don't be too polemic

[sheldon]

This is sort of like arguing Ford wasn't responsible for installing Firestone tires on the Explorer because tires aren't a car.

Yeah, didn't make sense to me either.

Re:yeah, and...

[markmoss]

shouldn't that headline read: "Witness for MS caught dissembling"?

Only by pretending to be an expert when the only OS he knows is Windows...

Re:Microsoft maybe not as funny as you think

[Red Weasel]

Suitable for public office?

Re:He is not part of (EE)CS

[Fastball]

Perhaps his migration to the dark side of management has tainted the Jedi mind tricks he learned from the comp sci department.

Re:shells

[archen]

/usr/bin/perl

Re:Generally pathetic witnesses for Microsoft

[sg3000]

Okay, look, just because Microsoft's witnesses have proved that they didn't read the settlement, got favors from Microsoft to testify, or generally can't tell between an operating system and an old shoe doesn't mean that Microsoft is doing poorly in the case.

I mean, you're acting like illegally abusing your monopoly to shut out competition and reduce consumer choice with hopes of cornering the market on desktop operating systems, office productivity software, media, and the Internet is a crime or something. What you're failing to take into account is I got Solitare for free. That's right, FOR FREE! Is that the sign of a heartless monopoly? No, of course not. And do I see you offering me free, cheapo quality shovelware? No, all I get from you are a bunch of "facts" and "news". Well, you can keep your "facts", Mister-- I've got a game of Klondike I must win!

Re:fp?

[paiute]

This clueless jerk is an insult to all things MIT and should immediately be deported to Harvard.

Re:shells

[ruin]

Nono. Well, emacs maybe a shell, Vi(m) is an whole beach.

I think you misspelled "bitch."

Or possibly beast.