Bill points us to this
story about IBM notebooks fitted with digital writing/doodling pads. It's designed to capture images rather than OCR text, but I could still see it being a useful tool in a few different situations. Doesn't seem to be any info about this on IBM's site, though.
This has (almost) been done before... (Score:3)
In 1992/1993, IBM produced the Thinkpad 730T, an industrial strength tablet notebook designed mainly for applications in real estate (easy access to databases and listing information), medical (convenient access to patient records and other such data), and other purposes. This thing is still impressive today, and was even more amazing back when it was released.
The machine was incredibly well designed, employing a fairly small footprint, pcmcia hard disks (so that your work doesn't require you to use a specific notebook. If your workplace owns a number of 730Ts, just pop your personal hard disk into any of the notebooks and you're set to go), rubberized magnesium-alloy casing (extremely strong, light, and water-resistant), and an extremely cool dual-battery system. Rather than having one massive battery, the 730T used two smaller batteries, set up so that batteries can be hot-swapped by simply replacing one battery, then the other, leading to effectively unlimited uptime without plugging in or shutting down. The average battery life runs into the 3-5 hour range.
The digitizer tablet was integrated with the display, allowing a true point-and-click environment (to use marketing jargon), and wasn't too shabby, especially since the display was a backlit 9.5" greyscale lcd.
The reason I mention this macine at such length is this: Tablet machines have been done before. Even by the same manufacturer. The only thing that has been lacking has been OS support. PenPoint was apparently good, but had limited application support. Windows for Pen Computing is long outdated, and Pen Services has pathetic handwriting recognition, and it doesn't work with Windows 98 (I don't think). IBM seems to be acting as though this machine is a major innovation, even though this isn't a new thing. Even Microsoft is acting like their new version of Windows for use with tablet machines is a big deal. They've already done os work for pen-based systems.
I wish these people wouldn't act like everything they do is so incredibly innovative.
-Orbix
Note: Compaq also made a tablet machine, being the Concerto. The Concerto wasn't ruggedized or anything, but it did have a removable keyboard, making it one of the most versatile machines made, and that it surpasses this new IBM machine by miles.
Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:2)
Two of the biggest complaints from the students were that the recognition was not good and you couldn't see the end result of your sketches in realtime. Many of the problems were due to converting the users pen strokes into a vector based image. I believe this user feedback is more of what influenced IBM's design of this new laptop. I highly doubt IBM "stole" this technology from Apple.
For more information on IBM's handwriting research visit IBM Pen Technologies [ibm.com] research page.
Pete
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Similar item already for Palm Pilots (Score:1)
SmartPad is the first product that lets you capture anything you write or draw, with the natural feel of pen on paper. Take notes and store them in your Datebook. Attach a map to a contact in the Address Book. Easily write down To Do's or Memos and save them for future reference.
there's a lot of other info about it at the above linked site. It looks like a really cool add-on... unfortunately it doesn't seem to work with my Visor [handspring.com] so I'm out of luck.
Re:Smells like Cross (Score:2)
This is a simple hack (Score:1)
i apologise in advance for this OT rant: (Score:1)
I hate to get into this, but it really bugs me that so many people feel that IE "won" just because Microsoft had endless amounts of cash to throw at it. IE also won because Netscape's stagnation and slow, but quiet, death.
Mozilla (Netscape 6) is a joke. Sure, it gives GNU/Linux users a browser that correctly implements at least part of CSS1, but it doesn't offer much else. Netscape 6 will not regain any marketshare in Win32 Land because it sarcrifices speed and functionality in favor of a portability I couldn't care less about. I used to be a big Netscape weenie. I even used their crappy mail client. But Microsoft's products kept getting better and better, and Netscape's weren't changing at all. Netscape 4.7* is essentially the same browser Netscape sold three years ago, with the addition of slighly better [awful] applet support and a "Shop" button. Mozilla is amazing compared to that shite, but when compared to the Microsoft line, is only about as functional and fast as an IE4/Outlook Express 5 combo, minus stability.
(Yes I'm aware what makes IE5* so fast. If Linux is to have any hope of succeeding the the consumer desktop market, perhaps it should learn to sacrfice some of its dubiously-pristine kernel process space in favor of what average desktop users really care about.)
IE is now available for Windows, MacOS, and Solaris. Users of other platforms such as GNU/Linux should concentrate on "third-world" browsers such as Opera, Konquerer, et cetera, and get as far as possible from the Netscape stigma. I respect the time and effort the Mozilla developers have spent, but at this point, it's not just beating a dead horse, it's beating a horse which has been dead so long that the flesh has rotted off. The first thing these third-world browsers need is proper CSS2 (the standard is only three fucking years old, heh heh) and DHTML support. After that, start on XML. Web developers will start trying to publish pure XML documents within two years, and if you don't want to miss the boat again, I suggest you do something.
It's not a matter of MS being evil. It's a matter of MS "releasing early and often" as the OSS saying goes, and it's a matter of their products supporting technologies both developers and users are eager to have. Once again, Mozilla is great, but MS had you beat two years ago. Netscape knows their browser line is dead, and don't care anyway; they make their money on iPlanet servers these days. ESR can bugger off. Products of the Cathedral may not be as polished upon initial release, but when compared to what comes out of the Bazaar... heh heh... ESR sure is a funny guy. He forgets that th Cathedral is what produced the UNIX system which GNU/Linux so happily ripped off.
All generalizations are false.
Re:Digital Doodling? Try Digital Toothbrush! (Score:1)
This was posted yesterday (Score:1)
Re:This has (almost) been done before... (Score:2)
Re:Still waiting for Alan Kay's vision (Score:1)
I've seen programs which let you draw on a pseudo-"whiteboard" the size of your computer screen (even a cool networked version), but they just can't replace the feeling of sketching out the shapes and paths in your mind onto the wall with a marker.
Man, that would be awesome. And probably only cost $20000, too. ;-)
Hey, getting offtopic, but -- speaking of whiteboards, I've been looking to buy a medium or large one for my apartment. (I don't think I can swipe one from work...) Where can I find the best prices? Office Depo, et al want hundreds of dollars for those babies... maybe I should stake out some engineering supply stores?
All generalizations are false.
Slashdot's sig stinks (Score:1)
Re:OCR in games...Ultima? (Score:1)
Re:Still waiting for Alan Kay's vision (Score:1)
The Microsoft-phobic might feel more comfortable checking this out (requires Java applet-capable browser):
All generalizations are false.
Aren't there more then ... (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Give the guys a break, it's not like they are happy about all of their VA or Andover or whatever options being worth less than the paper they are printed on, or becoming worth even less in the future!
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
The best part is that the original story is still under the "Friday" header on the right of the main
Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:1)
If I took a shit into a can and got IBM to sell it, you'd probaly bitch that I stole this idea from Apple since Steve Jobs is older than me and thus shat before me.
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
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Transition Vehicle (Score:1)
The pad is the key component because you can always drop back and scribble if your windows crashes, giving a sense of security. Plus, it's in a nifty package, so you don't have to fumble a laptop AND a pad of paper.
Plust the flexibility of using just the touch screen is what I've been longing for. I used PenWindows and a backlit Wacom pad back in 93 and fell in love with it, then it died a horrible costly death. Hopefully it will be reborn soon by devices like this.
For me, there isn't a program fast enough yet that I can use to go from mind to screen. Even visio isn't fast enough... Sometimes I even drop into notepad or paint, but they still can't compete with pen/paper for rapid thought.
Thats pretty damn .. useless. (Score:1)
1. It was really cool to use
2. It doesn't work under linux.
3. The pen's batteries cost too much for normal use.
4. Its awkward to use, and I could do better with my sweet (logitech) USB mouse.
Another point to consider is that these pads are for PhotoShop addicts that need pressure sensetive stuff. For normal use they are awkard, even more so than those crappy joystick things the thinkpads used to ship with 4 years ago instead of a mouse.
Now, adding it to a laptop is completely insane because it adds weight. Another note to consider is that these things have terrible bitrate (my calcomp only connects to a serial port). The only reason IBM's not going with OCR is either because they suck at doing it, or because they dont want to make their $3000 lappytops look like 3 year old Palms.
Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:1)
The funny thing is that I am not being sarcastic.
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
Re:Smells like Cross (Score:1)
Re:Still waiting for Alan Kay's vision (Score:1)
All generalizations are false.
Alternative (Score:1)
Still waiting for Alan Kay's vision (Score:2)
A lot of people have made some disparaging remarks about the usefulness of such a device, but for certain tasks it would be a lot easier to use than a keyboard/mouse combo.
For example, scratch diagrams (be they architectural, machine modelling, or data/object modelling.) Right now we have to click the tool. Drag-size the object. Click the entry field. Type text. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Very cumbersome, especially if you're a touch typist who doesn't like to reach for the mouse.
A pad, OTOH, could recognize object shapes and avoid the tool click in the first place. It's easy enough to sketch trapezoids, boxes, squares, etc. on a whiteboard or notepad when doing object design with cohorts. Wouldn't it be handy if those initial notes were directly input as the initial design?
Someone mentioned interviews as one of the situations where you don't want to be tapping at a keyboard. How about meetings? Ever tried to take notes using Palm's stuff in a meeting? Maybe others are quicker at their glyphs, but I just can't write and rewrite in the same spot naturally.
Doing a straight digital capture for the initial data is actually pretty flexible. Once you've got your digital notes, you could use OCR tools on the "image" files, the same as if you'd scanned a document. Even if accuracy isn't too great, you have your raw notes to do corrections from (and no one to blame if you can't read your own writing. *g*)
My bigger concerns are:
i found it!! (Score:1)
All generalizations are false.
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Most of the people suggesting a technical solution to the problem of double-posting stories don't realize that the technical solution is AI-complete.
Re:Still waiting for Alan Kay's vision (Score:2)
The nearby one its an Panasonic KX-B530.
Hope this helps.
--
Are you kidding? (Score:1)
This sounds like the most awkward arrangement possible. The whole intention of paper is its light and unbound from the screens we look at all day. Disposable. If it sounded like this would simplify or organize my life, I might bite.
IBM stole this from Apple (Score:2)
Hmmm (Score:5)
Already been on Slashdot this Friday (Score:1)
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/12/14824
The notebook market must be pretty saturated... (Score:2)
How hard would it be for some enterprising haquers out to build a generic handwriting OCR engine? What are the technical problems involved with this sort of thing?
Waste of Time? (Score:3)
I usually find that it's much easier to take notes on paper, so that if I screw up I can easily erase it or move on.
With this you wouldn't have the ability to scroll as you take notes, and unless it interprets your handwriting into text, what good would it be?
Or is all digital always better to some of you?
Smells like Cross (Score:2)
An old sig
a bit drops in
Transition vehicle (Score:2)
The pad is the key component because you can always drop back and scribble if your windows crashes, giving a sense of security. Plus, it's in a nifty package, so you don't have to fumble a laptop AND a pad of paper.
Plust the flexibility of using just the touch screen is what I've been longing for. I used PenWindows and a backlit Wacom pad back in 93 and fell in love with it, then it died a horrible costly death. Hopefully it will be reborn soon by devices like this.
For me, there isn't a program fast enough yet that I can use to go from mind to screen. Even visio isn't fast enough... Sometimes I even drop into notepad or paint, but they still can't compete with pen/paper for rapid thought.
Cool for forms and checklists (Score:3)
I've been waiting for something like this. Nice work, IBM!
Re:Already been on Slashdot this Friday (Score:1)
Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:2)
If that's the best argument wintel users can put up against Apple, then it's little wonder that Apple is fast becoming the number one consumer-computer manufacturer again. What this debate lacks is maturity on the wintel side. You've tried using actual arguments and have lost, so now you resort to name calling and expletives ("If I took a shit into a can and got IBM to sell it, you'd probaly bitch that I stole this idea from Apple"). Apple invented the personal computer as you and I know it. Show some respect.
Insider info regarding two mouse buttons (Score:1)
Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:1)
It isn't.
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Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:1)
Re:Here's some info (Score:1)
Re:Slashdot's editors... (Score:1)
Does this really make things easier for... (Score:1)
Clicking this (IDG) link gives IDG Money - ad hit (Score:2)
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;1511675;4485524;j?h
To go there without viewing the IDG banner and without generating clickthrough $$$ for IDG, go HERE [infoworld.com].
This article is actually an infoworld.com [infoworld.com] article.
--------
OCR in games...Ultima? (Score:2)
Anyway, he was talking about how they were going to be using a form of OCR for the spell casting in the next Ultima game. Each spell would have a hand-motion associated with it... part of casting a spell would be to actually use your mouse mimic the patterns that your mage would be drawing in the air with his staff (or hands or whatever).
The more accurately you draw the pattern... the more effective the spell would be! I thought that was the COOLEST idea. To me that seems very a) innovative and b) fun.
What do you guys think about that idea? And have you heard of any other uses of OCR in games? To me this is an area just begging to be exploited.
http://www.bootyproject.org [bootyproject.org]
Re: (Score:1)
Re:This was posted yesterday (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Like any successful venture, all sorts of other people have climbed on aboard.
Ever been in a startup where that happens? It's cool at first, then it gets the attention of the suits and all sorts of creeps join up and run it.
You know who I mean. [various.other.creeps]
Re:Still waiting for Alan Kay's vision (Score:2)
maybe you should meet the Clio [clio.com]®
:)Fudboy
Digitakl Doodling (Score:1)
Re:The notebook market must be pretty saturated... (Score:1)
Mainly I think it is a lack of hardware where it would be convenient to have such a thing. No one is itching yet. But this might change with the porting of linux to reasonably powerful handhelds - compaq ipaq for one.
Re:Smells like Cross (Score:1)
Re:What makes Wintel better than anything else... (Score:2)
The Mac lost because most of us didn't like them enough to buy one. If you're assuming that most people made that decision on the basis of advertising without ever trying competing machines before purchasing, you're probably wrong.
The Mac was technically nice, but it lacked even the option of a CLI, so I wrote it off as not being a serious machine. I like my machines to have both a CLI and a GUI, but if I have to have only one, I can't do without the CLI. I was an ardent Apple fan until the Mac came out, and it wasn't IBM's advertising that swayed me -- it was Apple's new machines.
--
Re:OCR in games...Ultima? (Score:1)
http://www.bootyproject.org [bootyproject.org]
ThinkPad TransNote on the IBM Site (Score:1)
You can find a preview of the ThinkPad TransNote on IBM's web site, here:
The site implies, but does not clearly state, that the devide will do OCR as well as capture doodles. Check out the cool monitor which rotates (or flips) to face the "audience." It looks great for meetings and small presentations.
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Clio not up to snuff (Score:1)
Unfortunately there's no decent drawing program for WinCE which does bezier curves and
The book, _ThinkPad A Different Shade of Blue_ discusses this somewhat, as does Jerry Kaplan's _Startup_
William
--
Lettering Art in Modern Use
Re:IBM stole this from Apple (Score:2)
Apple invented the personal computer as you and I know it
suggests you either haven't a clue or believe everything you are told. Ever heard of Xerox PARC? history lesson: they were responsible for GUIs, Ethernet, file servers, print servers, routing (RIP), and a whole bunch of other stuff you probably attribute to Apple, Novell, or maybe even Cisco depending on what you have been told. Do your research before you start believing you are high and mighty.
No more drawing on the back of an envelope. (Score:1)
I hope IBM has some sort of easy retrieval system for this, so that you can pull things up really easy. A Netscape Plugin or something would be really cool.
I can hear the support calls now... (Score:1)
Caller 1: " Um, yeah, my pen doesn't work "
Tech: "....Use another one, sir "
Caller 2: " So, where is the power button on this pen? "
Tech: "(sigh) [click]"
Seb
could be useful (Score:3)
Good Idea it Seems (Score:2)
This is probably appropriate for a very large market - for example I often take notes whilst interviewing people - it's rude to type during a meeting (perhaps that's a culture thing, but then you should be sensitive to it), so I write quick notes and type up minutes afterwards. This would be very very useful in my case, and many others I can think of.
On the other hand, it's not necessary, just useful - the current way works too. And if this thing gets overtaken by something else within 9 months, it's going to miss my company's refresh cycle on PCs, and it will pass us by. Also, it suffers from the fact that it's newness classifies it as a gadget in the minds of those who have budgets, and so maybe it won't sell quite so well as a consequence.
I don't think I'll get one, either personally or through my work, but I like the fact that IBM push the ideas envelope and make things like this - not bad for a monolithic blue-chip.
Pad and screen have opposite orientations (Score:1)
The article left me with several questions:
- Do you have to write with special characters, or will it recognize my native printing?
- Does the pad fold all the way around for when you're not using the computer?
- If so, wouldn't writing on the pad mash the keys against the table?
oh knock that off (Score:1)
Well that surely doesn't prove that they're doing a bangup job all of the time.
By your train of reasoning, I shouldn't complain about the United States of America because I continue to live here. It is possible for a thing to have both good and bad qualities, it doesn't have to be absolutely one or the other.
What makes Wintel better than anything else... (Score:2)
When the Apple first came out, everyone was using IBM. Somehow big buisness was accustomed to getting everything from IBM. Actually they were more than just accustomed to IBM they were clung to the image of professionalism and power. IBM was the largest (and perhaps only?) big manufactuer of Mainframe systems. Companies trusted IBM with making the best systems and, for the most part, they did deliver on that. In time, companies would take the stance of: if it's not IBM it's not coming in here. It could have also been something with IBM's licensing agreements, but I like the romantic idea of an actual relationship between companies.
Along came the personal computer. Woz and Jobs got a great idea from Homebrew that real world people just might be able to benifit from computers. Things like games (well, maybe not yet), personal finance, word processing, etc, without having to wait in line for processing time on some university or company IBM mainframe. Also, you may not be able to do PERSONAL things on an academic or corporate system - something you CAN do with a personal computer. Jobs probably jerked off that night thinking of all the money that they could bring in. Bill Gates was probably failing a test or something and didn't really have a clue... not yet anyway.
Anyhow, Woz and Jobs sell these personal computers and they take off very well. Except for one big problem. Those little Apples didn't have the three most important things at that time to be accepted into buisness. Those three things were the letters I.B.M. on the cover. Woz and Jobs proved one thing: there was _money_ to be made, and IBM eventually wanted a part of it.
Buisness turned to IBM and said "Hey, those Apples might be useful... we'd like some way to sucker people into working at the office and at home... what do you have for us?" IBM quickly ran out and (quite literally) overnight built what has become known as the Personal Computer (or IBM PC).
So why this long boring history lesson that's probably half wrong? Well, the part that's right is the big buisness acceptance. Buisnesses standardized on the PC not because it was better, but because it came from the bigger company.
In time, Apple has proven to lead the way to innovation - the GUI for example. But buisness was always oriented around the PC. Once IBM had that engrained into their corporate culture then the war was over.
Think of it this way. IE vs Netscape. Who won? IE. Not because it was necessarily better than Netscape, but simply because the company that owned it had more market share and more money to throw at it. Who cares if Netscape was there first or was better (better is an opinion), IE had the BIG company behind it to back it in the minds of the average consumer.
Since most people used PCs at work, they eventually wanted to use them at home too. The Apple got sidelined as everyone got the PC. Incedently, the PC is cheeper than the Mac, simply because there is competiton on the hardware side of things.
The Mac lost because Apple wasn't a big company. No one in big buisness trusted the two kids from a garage. Apple was first. Apple was better. Apple just didn't matter.
The problem is that with more users on the PC, more developers came along for it. More developers means more applications and more applications means more choice for the end user.
Sadly Microsoft found a way to monopolize the basic software component of the IBM PC and bilked IBM and the rest of us for over 10 years. Sigh.
Again, the Mac may be better technologically speaking, but the PC has more application and more support. It's more widely used and accepted and, for the present time, the tide isn't changing. I respect Apple for starting the PC industry in the same way I respect Netscape for starting the WWW. Unfortunatly I'm typing this note on Internet Explorer running on Windows 98 on my IBM latpop. Sad really. Just plain sad.
Maybe they'll get back on their feet. Maybe they'll find a way to destory the PC market. Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow... Blah, this is getting stupid.. L8r.
Take Michaels crayons away. (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
http://slashdot.org/search.pl?topic=ibm [slashdot.org]
and you see this article with the old one right beneath it. i dont expect the
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
Re:Clicking this (IDG) link gives IDG Money - ad h (Score:1)
Yes, I have noticed that, since the page linked to from Slashdot just gives me a top frame with some stuff, and one frame which says "Internet Junkbuster"... In order to actually see the article, I'm forced to either allow ad.doubleclick.net (which I don't want), or use the modified link. Bad, IDG.
I thought I had seen this some where... (Score:2)
aztek: the ultimate man
I've been waiting for this for some time. (Score:1)
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So it's a duplicate, Anyway: (Score:1)
Killer App Divice - Digital Oogling (Score:1)
Now that all types of digital killer-app wannabe divices are coming out, trying to capture a piece of the action, methinks the _real_ killer app digital device is yet to be invented, and that is, a digital device capable of either doing the digital oogling itself, or let the user of the device do all types of digital oogling on it.
What da ya think?
Re:Way to go michael... (Score:1)
<RANT> /. More to the point I so often hear how /. is the epitome of bad journalism.
It really amazes me that so many people feel the need to go off when a mistake is made on
My question to the folks who believe this:
Why exactly is it that you continue to read it then?
</RANT>
I now return you to your regularly scheduled goat sex troll...
--
Give a man a match, you keep him warm for an evening.