Jazilla Milestone 1 Released

mcbridematt writes "Many of the long time Slashdot readers will remember the Jazilla project to rewrite the Mozilla browser in Java. It went into hibernation in 2000 and I took it over last August. I have completely rewrote the browser which now follows a more Mozilla-like architecture. The Result: Jazilla Milestone 1 has been released. Download it from here. No prizes for guessing that it's Alpha software." Read on below for a list of what Jazilla can do, so far.

"Significant (implemented) features include:

• chrome:// support
• JavaScript implemented for the GUI thanks to the Mozilla.org Rhino engine. HTML Scripting coming.
• GUI in part, uses XUL and W3C DOM
• Written in 100% Java
• Open Source
• Uses the NetBrowser renderer, which is actually based on Jazilla-classic work."

Running this puppy

I'm sure a million people will want to see this, but not everybody knows how to start it.

Once you expand and extract this puppy, just cd into the folder it made and, assuming Java is properly installed on your machine, you need only run:

java org/jxul/xulrunner/Main

Good luck, and enjoy! The browser's still lacking in many obvious areas, but it does work on a lot of sites. Too cool -- props for all the hard wo\ rk. :-)

Re:Running this puppy

You may need to specify a classpath manually using one of the following (again, both from the directory containing README, COPYING.TXT, etc.):

java -cp . org/jxul/xulrunner/Main
java -classpath . org/jxul/xulrunner/Main

Windows users: The "jazilla.bat" file may or may not work for you. You may wish to edit this file to specify the classpath as above. You could also change your CLASSPATH environment variable, if you felt the need.

Re:Running this puppy

assuming Java is properly installed on your machine, you need only run: java org/jxul/xulrunner/Main

Assuming that mozilla is properly installed on your machine, you need only run: /usr/bin/mozilla

And presuming I run anything only if sources are available, I don't want any Java VM on my machine.

Re:Running this puppy

I might as well add two other things I didn't put in my original submission:

1) Look in org/netbeans/netbrowser/tags for any .java files not compiled. Compile them. The renderer uses Reflection to start up tags, so they don't get compiled at compile time. In the future, if Jazilla finds a compiler and tag which isn't compiled, it will compile that tag
2) Did I mention that getting URL's is multithreaded? If you try and hack it abit, e.g use a JIT for Crimson, you might get a better result.

Also, anyone wishing to make a product based on Jazilla, note that the jXUL part is unlicensed. I am yet to talk to Kevin T. Smith (co-founder of the jXUL project) about what license to put it under. The renderer is under the SPL. When that's done, expect anything under org.jxul to move to org.jazilla

Re:Running this puppy

actually there's a script. jazilla.sh

Virtual machines are so cool...

I used to dislike Java, but now I'm a convert. Virtual machines are so obviously cool... I need to download this and give it a spin.

Why?

The question had to be asked

Re:Why?

Hee. I told him it would get him laid, then forgot to mention it was a joke. A year and a half later, it was just too funny not to let him keep running with it. Shh! My bad!

Re:Why?

Ok grandpa it might be time to upgrade your 386sx to some more modern processor. You will be shocked at how much faster late 90's technology is, and if you want to live on the edge you might even try some system built in the last few years. You will find that any of those run Mozilla and or Java great. Oh yeah, while you are at it you will find that 16MB of RAM won't cut it anymore, you should probably get around 512MB. The good news is that you can get a system like that for under a grand. I do realize that living on social security makes it tough to buy a new system every 20 or so years, but just stop buying so much crap from those late night tv ads, and you should have enough saved up in no time.

Re:Why?

Ok it was kinda a joke but I will address it more seriously this time.

1. Java is slow. This was true in 1.0 release of Java, but with todays JIT's the speed difference is small. I can point you to numerous sites, but at the end of the day it comes down to good coders. Your experience must be with some bad coders.

2. SWING is slow. This again use to be true with 1.18 + SWING and 1.2x JVM's the 1.3 and 1.4 have increased SWINGS speed considerably.

3. JAVA takes up too much memory. Yes it is true that the base JVM can take around 5-16MB of RAM per JVM instance. But with todays systems, on a lot of applications that isn't too bad. Now the core issue is that it takes up that amount for EVERY JVM that is used. So to your point: If I launch a Java calculator program, and then launch a Java notepad, I will have lost around 10-32MB of RAM in just JVM's. This is currently true, however it is being addressed and should be solved with the 1.5 release. Once this is done, then it would be possible to have ONE JVM running on the system for all Java applications. The JVM could launch at startup and then even the inital load times would be greatly reduced. I believe that this is the way Apple is handling Java (Can't confirm it though).

So, when this issue is resolved, running Java on a machine could mean only giving up a maximum amount of 16MB of RAM for the JVM and the rest for the application. To be honest that is what most Java programs are doing today. Most run as an application server and run Servlets and JSP's all day long.

Another poster mentioned that you use the correct tool for the job. I agree, but I will add that the issues for not using Java for speed has and is going away. The reasons for not using it for memory are going away on most computers.

We do agree on one point. Most people do have computer processors far greater than they need.

Lastly, if you are having so many issues running Java apps on your system you should look at newer JVM's. They make a huge difference.

Re:Why?

How said anything about one bad Java App taking down the rest of them? By no means did I say that someone could do something like:
System.exit(1) and take down every running application...

Also understand that this is being developed by multiple people/vendors NOT SUN. It is in their community process and I hope that Apple is helping with this. I would say that most of the work being done on Java is not from Sun, but IBM. (Just my observation). However, Sun has final say (kinda like some kernel guy...)

You say that VB uses a smaller runtime engine than Java.... SHOCKER!!! How much of it is built in to Windows that it doesn't need to load??? How well does that VB app port to any other platform?

You mention that Sun's server developers complain about Java. You are correct, but not for the reason you mention. They complained about the speed of their JVM to that of the Windows JVM. Sun in it's wisdom decided that to make Java more successful, it needed to make sure that the JVM for Windows ran great. They focused so much attention to it that the one for Solaris suffered. That isn't the case anymore. Now does that mean that every developer in Sun loves Java????? NOPE! Every large company has sharp people who disagree on stuff. I bet you will find people in Microsoft who think Linux rocks and WindowsXp isn't that great.

Another point you made is you want Sun to give the developers what they promised six years ago. I for the life of me can't think of anything they promised except a write once run anywhere thing. I would say that they have 'mostly' achieved that goal. I run Java stuff on NetWare, Windows, Linux, Solaris, AIX and various phones and palm/pocket pc systems. Other than the small devices, no modifications of code have been necessary!

If you give me a great IDE in Java and it runs 10% slower because of Java, I generally don't care. i.e. Oracle Jdeveloper 9i, is the example. I now have an IDE that runs acceptable on most platforms!

The only real problem with Java is that so many kids are taking it today (I have heard it is being taught in more colleges than English), and those kids are being put in to positions they are not ready for (Bad economy, that wants cheaper labor). That coupled with the fact that it is a relatively new language screams for performance issues. This isn't the languages fault.

If you remember when C was first around, just to write a very simple program almost always took 5k (we laugh at that now), but I remember developers (myself included) who thought "What a piece of crap!! I can do that in Assembler in 300 bites and it's startup time is way faster!
What percentage of code is done in Assembler nowdays? Heck the same could be said about COBOl.

IE, Mozilla, and Opera are all I need!

And I still test in various other browsers and in various other operating systems. But, of course, if Jazilla ever gets good reviews, I'll try it.

Other than being Java-based, what's the point of this web browser?

Re:IE, Mozilla, and Opera are all I need!

Some uses I can think of is embedding sub-parts of it in embedded environments.You also can modify it (Open-source) it for use in hundreds of ways to create useful apps.This most probably is not going to replace any browser on the average desktop, but can possibly be used as a web-test tool, automation framework etc.
What about running a browser/modification on a Netware box (it supports java) and no cross compiler necessary.
Also note that W3C demoes a browser on their website ( Amaya IIRC) written in Java.

Re:IE, Mozilla, and Opera are all I need!

Why do I have a strange urge to try and embed it in an applet?

Re:IE, Mozilla, and Opera are all I need!

Other than being Java-based, what's the point of this web browser?

I could probably name 100+ embedded devices that support java. Having an Open Source java browser is a good thing.

Besides that, I could also harp about the security of java.

Hmm, it would be ironic if Jazilla had a problem running applets.

So, using Javascript and Java...

Does the browser call a new java runtime layer, so it's a java layer running a web browser running a java layer, or does the original java layer detect the attempt to run Java and intercept to run it itself?

What happens if I run the java web browser in a web browser?

Re:So, using Javascript and Java...

Java programs != Applets, I think you're getting the two mixed up.

Re:So, using Javascript and Java...

Hold on there skippy. Java applets ARE Java.

I think what our friend Exiler here is trying to say is that Javascript has nothing in common with Java except the name. And if I'm to believe the person who told me, Javascript had a different name while it was being developed but Sun exerted sufficient pressure on the neccesary parties to change the name to sound like Java.

Quick recap:
Java Applications - Java
Java Applets - Java
Javascript - Not Java

I hope this helped.

its interesting

dont get me wrong i think its an interresting project but why write in Java a software that is already available on a huge variety of platforms (its mainly the advantage of writing java apps).

also Mozilla is lacking a bit of speed im sure you wont help in java.....

Re:Exactly. Whole point of Mozilla was portability

. But i wont be using it since Firebird runs fine

It can't hurt to have a web browser besides you database.

Re:Exactly. Whole point of Mozilla was portability

Hmm, I had already forgotten that there was a database with the same name.

Re:its interesting

A year and a half ago I was involved on the development of a Digital TV Set Top Box.

As User Interface Developer one of my duties was the analysis and selection of an embedded web browser. My bet was a Gecko based one, but implement it for the Nucleus RTOS was out of the question, so we should point to a propietary browser license.

If this project was so evolved in that moment it would have been a serious alternative.

Re:Who pay for it?

+3 Insightful? WTF? Did the all the anti-Java FUD /.ers get their mod points today?

First you place the blame on Java as one of the bloat/UI "candies" that are forcing people to upgrade thier PC. Then you say that Java has mostly expanded on the server market. So which is it? They aren't big currently big in the GUI department (although if you go here [sun.com], you'll see that is changing). So tell me again how Java, which runs mostly on servers, is forcing people to upgrade their PC because of UI bloat?

Or how this is part of this conspiracy since Java is made by a company that doesn't make a desktop PC, a company that until recently didn't even support the x86 architecture very well, a company that makes high-end servers and workstations that have exceeded your "typical" PC mentioned above for years?

I agree that Java does on the server "what was easy to program and cheap to run using Apache/CGI/PHP/Perl/Python". It also does it faster (Python, by about 20%), with more maintainable code (Perl) and more securely (CGI). Apache (and by extension Jakarta) has always worked hand-in hand with Java quite well. But then, there are times when Perl and Python are the better choice, so use the right tool for the job.

Comparing Swing to Flash is like comparing Gnome with HTML. That's right....apples and oranges. Excellent strawman attack but it doesn't work. The two are for totally different UI environments.

Mods, just because you don't know Java or agree with the FUD doesn't make this guys tripe right.

OS X compatibility

It seems to not work with OS X using instructions above, perhaps something else has to be done.

Jazilla: In case your computer was too fast

Combine the speed and java with the speed of Mozilla.... I bet you can reboot into windows, run IE, and get 3 first posts before Jazilla starts up.

Applets support?

Does it have support for Java applets, or do you need to install the Java plugin to have applets? :P

mmmm

any idea why anybody would want or need to use that?

mozilla runs on at least as many platforms as any JRE, and many more if you expect swing to work properly.

i don't get it.

Re:mmmm

any idea why anybody would want or need to use that?

They wouldn't. It's not about the users, it's about the developers.

I use Mozilla, but I rarely hack on it. Why? I hate C++. It's a miserable language for developing an application. Java, on the other hand, is a great language for application development. The performance issues will melt away very soon as both the JRE and hardware improve. If I find a problem with Jazilla, I'm very likely to try to fix/enhance it.

Plus, I happen to know both C++ and Java, but most kids coming out of school have never hacked C++. They've all hacked Java. These are the most likely hackers to work on a web browser.

Let's come back in a year and see if Jazilla is more interesting to users, when it's fast, stable, and pretty, due to all the volunteer efforts.

Short of a WxRuby port of Mozilla, this is what really has me interested.

Can't browse Yahoo nor /. with it

they have a long way to go!

Just plain question

Just plain question - what is intended usage of it?

Does it compile with gcj?

I wonder whether the RHUG [redhat.com] people will be able to build Jazilla using gcj [gnu.org] and so create a native binary package. Then we could see whether it is faster or slower than Mozilla.

Too much time on their hands

I may be being a little harsh here but what exactly is the point in this?

Java's redeeming feature is that it is a cross platform environment. Which is all well and lovely.

Everything else about Java is horrible, like speed issues etc.

This project is to "make a mozilla clone in java". So by doing this you'd assume they'd be making mozilla cross platform (because that's the only logical reason for using java)... But Mozilla is already cross platform!!! Any platform it doesn't support you shouldn't be using for browsing the web with!

And anyways, you still need java to be installed to run it... Install java for a crappy browser or install Mozilla? I know which I'd prefer to do.

Jezz

Re:Too much time on their hands

There's more to Java than cross-platform. In fact, with all the various versions running around, I'd say its cross-platform qualities are significantly overrated.

Java is far more important in its security and software engineering features (which are actually very closely related). I find that I'm far more productive in Java than I ever was in C++ and C. I find that's even truer for less experienced programmers. Java increases the ability of programmers to work together through better memory management, better type enforcement, exceptions, etc.

You don't really need to hear all this. At this point you either believe it or not and I'm not going to convince you.

I haven't been able to compare it to C#, which appears to offer many of the same advantages over C/C++. I think of Java in a different class from languages like Perl and PHP, which are less well-suited to teamwork, which is an important goal of mine.

So the reason for this is not because we need another browser (boy, do we not) but because Java needs a browser for use in its environment. Java is still very poor on the client side, for a host of reasons, one of which is its lack of browser integration. Applets were always a stupid idea, I'm afraid, because software distribution via applets just isn't ready and the toys are generally beneath contempt.

You need a browser as part of Java. It's the best way to view text, whether for help, mail, etc. Java has several, but none are really any good because they're not 100% compatible with the lastest rounds of HTML/HTTP/Javascript. A browser, compatible with IE and Mozilla, will help make Java a decent client environment.

ENmcbridematt

I have completely rewrote the browser

Not let start the ENmcbridematt project to rewrite your statements in plain English.

Why...

Since half the comments so far seem to be "What is the point" I'll offer one justification.

There is still a serious lack of a good modern HTML browser for embeding in java applications. Swing provides an EditorKit which handles HTML3 reasonable well, but most of the other quality offerings are non free.

Major Java IDEs (Eclipse, NetBeans) have projects to implement something like this. Many other Java applications could potentially benefit. It's a good idea.

Another good reason.

Imagine this uncommon but very possible setup.

You are working on a weekend all by yourself, you get the average of one phone call every 3 hours and nobody EVER comes into the office on weekends but you, the poor tech support guy.

You work for a small company that uses a Netware 5 file server for the firewall. (Remember, Netware 5 is Java based)

You don't have admin access.

The server doesn't have the console locked.

The server IS the firewall, and therefore can be outside of it.

You REALLY want to get your dose of porn, which the firewall wont let you do.

The firewall is unlocked........

Yep, time to load up a JAVA browser on the file server for your own porn surfing pleasure.

Another justification...

Maybe I want to write an application in Java that has a more dynamic user interface. Swing makes things like this hard. What if you could make a great GUI in seconds in Java using dynamically generated XUL with call outs to Java instead of broken impared JS.

I'm all for duct taping a rendering engine on the front of real Java just because I don't like to deal with any of the popular layout managers for swing. Ideally, I would have my own Java widgets (because swing gets extendible widgets right like no other GUI API anywhere) that were rendered in a sane fasion (plus the native XUL widgets for when you don't need to extend them).

Swing layout is one of the reasons Java GUIs seam to be broken. If you resize a window, you get a lot of grey boxes. Sure, Mozilla could use some double buffering on their resizing, but it doesn't leave me with a gray screen instead of seeing how the components will look after resizing.

It would be even better if you could extend the XUL language in some manner with custom widgets.
For example:
XUL.registerComponent(MyPhoneEditor,"pho neEditor", XUL.TEXT);

These are all the more reasons why we need a good renderer in Java.

On a side note:
Anyone notice that with Java 1.4.2, jazilla starts faster than mozilla? A little over a second for me. It just won't render any web-site properly :) I'm impressed with the speed. Maybe it will send some of those idiot trolls about Java being slow back to the drawing board so they can complain about something else for a while when it gets done.

HotJava

The Java-based browser concept worked really well for Sun Microsystems' HotJava browser so I believe Jazilla will be a phenomenal success as well. Go Jazilla team!

Re: Why?

Why do geeks do anything?

BECAUSE THEY CAN!!

What "Write Once, Run Anywhere" Really Means

From the beginning, Sun intended the Java language to be platform-neutral. That is, Java programs are written to run on a Java Virtual Machine instead of on a physical computer--it's the Virtual Machine that runs on a real computer. Thus a programmer can develop a program that will work on the sort of computer he likes and expect it to run on the sort of computers that his customers like, because it runs inside of the Java Virtual Machines on those computers.

This means that when you go to the store to buy an application, you don't buy the "Mac version" or the "Microsoft Windows version." You buy the "Java technology version." And as long as you have the Java Virtual Machine--which is free, and available from a large number of vendors--you can buy the program without having to worry whether it's going to run on your particular computer.

Using Jazilla as an applet inside Webmin

I think this might be a really cool idea if someone could do something like this. Say for example someone is in a really restrictive corporate or government environment which only allows HTTP and HTTPS out, and no SSH or anything like that. Now say for example you have Webmin installed on your home computer set to port 443. You use your work web browser to view your home's Webmin server inside SSL, and then if Jazilla were made into an applet and put inside a Webmin module that sends all of its information through the Webmin SSL encrypted connection, similar to the way Shell-in-a-Box [shellinabox.com] does, one could use a really nice browser to surf in complete privacy.

Well, it's just a thought anyway.

Its not as slow as you think...

I tried it, suprisingly alot faster than I thought it would be. Granted there is many missing features that may add more bloat later, but this thing looks like it will have great potential for embedded devices.

Hmmm..think It's about time to start up "funzilla", a mozilla browser ported to a functional language like Concurrent ML. Who's with me?

More give Us More

Actually I am looign forward to trying this browser out..

given the nice way aps such as LimeWire run and that you rarely notice that they are running under java.. this may also be agood prove of that as well.

Now if we coul donly free java from the cluches of Mordor(SUN)....

so I assume that since it it writen in Java

there will be no problems getting the java plugin to work...right?

I guess...

I guess there's probably no option to turn off Java support.

Why do we care?

Why do we care? I can think of several reasons why we wouldn't.

1) anything that is capable of running a browser that weighs in like mozilla (or IE, opera, etc) already can run mozilla natively.
2) Java will always be slower than a native, non-interpreted language, even if you compile it into a binary.
3) When mozilla is at 1.4 (or so), and this is just on the first alpha, what practicality is there in duplicating efforts to create the exact same thing, when there's such a gap between the two efforts? It's like making cement from diamond dust - sure, but why, when lime is better for the job all around, and outperforms to boot?

There are other reasons for Java...

Java is not only a language for writing pretty
applets (which aren't the same as full applications
which run from the CLI) or just for platform independence. It is a language which has many good security features, makes coding things such as networking much easier, has a vast amount of existing code and is a language which is just generally safer to program in and more object-oriented. If there weren't other benefits to coding Java programs, why would compilers such as GCJ exist for compiling Java programs to native code? Also, the speed problems with Java are now far less as compiling on demand becomes more common in Java runtimes. Whereas a C program can cause a segfault in about five lines, major problems with Java are more likely to be due to the runtime, which can even be eliminated. Also, there is no reason that just because Mozilla is slow (mainly because the code has to do a lot of layering to make the platform-independence work) doesn't mean that a port has to be -- a port would take substantial work and even though the ideas are the same, the finished product won't include the same code and so doesn't have to be as slow!!!

Btw, about the name....

Does anybody know if there isn't already a database name JFirebird??? Cause if nobody bothered to check it out,I should say there's another lawsuit coming pretty soon....;o)

License issues?

Is anyone here familiar with the MPL enough to give a run-down on how well this will play with Java? Given the fact that Java and the classlibs (as far as I know) are closed-source, does the MPL have any GPL-like clauses about linking to closed-source libraries?

While I'm at it, would it be possible for Sun to contribute a few engineers and integrate this into the Java class libraries? The current HTML component...well...it renders links, I guess, but it would be *great* to have a more capable rendering library.

XUL question

OK, could someone explain to me why using XUL to implement the GUI isn't just a way of adding a useless extra layer of bloat? It seems like it provides you flexibility, but honestly I can't think of why I'd want the flexibility to run a browser within a browser. I just want to browse web pages, and that's all. It seems like web browsers lost sight of that as a goal long ago...

A friendly suggestion

What's needed in this world isn't another clone of *zilla written in the language du jour. The problem with anything written with the Mozilla (or Gecko engine) is speed: Why should it take more than a few fractions of a second to render HTML?

And yes, it's been done already: Dillo [wearlab.de] is a blindingly-fast HTML engine/browser that runs from a binary less than 300Kb. No, it doesn't support frames, nor Javascript, nor any of the other kitchen-sink items all other browsers strive to be. Instead, Dillo sports a plug-in interface (open-source, naturally) that allows for all of this to happen, if the user wants it to happen.

So here's my suggestion: Take a cue from Dillo and go for speed, not for bloat.

Oh, and I should add that Dillo renders /. and Yahoo just fine.

what if they wrote it in C!

that would be sweet we could have Jazilla but writen in a language that is much faster!

Great Job, where is the SWT Version?

So who is going to port this to SWT? I really need a browser written in a cross-platform language that depends on platform-specific libraries.

Where's the Gecko?

I'm not understanding - how can this be Mozilla or even a Mozilla-clone, if it's not using the Gecko renderer? I mean, kudos and all for doing it, but Gecko is the key to Mozilla. Everything else is eye-candy.

What is the next step?

Is the next step to rewrite Mozilla in .NET?

Let's hope his code is better than his English...

"...I have completely rewrote..."

???

How about "I have completely rewritten," or more concisely "I rewrote."

At least he's got a compiler to catch his syntactic code errors.

Almost right - Mozilla should be part of the JVM

What we really need is for Mozilla to be bundled into Java! Think about it... Mozilla binaries already exist for all of major platforms on which Java runs. All that's needed is a Java wrapper for it and presto, reliable, native-optimized browsing (and more) anywhere you've got a JVM.

Grand Rapid Browser

Check out the Java based Grand Rapid [meyou.com] browsing engine.

It is fast and is designed to run on constrained devices. Channing

Download counters

SourceForge's download counters claim that Jazilla M1 has been downloaded zero times. Looks like either no-one's actually bothered to download the thing at all, or the mighty SourceForge has failed us. Ho hum...

I wonder...

I wonder if you could run Jazilla as an applet inside a web browser?

Sure beats running Internet Explorer.

I would say it's pre-alpha

This will be very useful for any client side Java projects that need a browser component. Unfortunately it looks like it needs a lot of work. It's pretty sad when every website I tried didn't even come close to rendering properly. I'll look forward to future releases however.

The renderer

I wrote a java web browser in about 3 weeks of classtime back in high school that rendered html as good as that does, at least on the sites I checked (google.com and mozilla.org).

Not to sound like I'm complaining. It's free afterall. And it's nice to see they haven't abandoned the project.

The big question is

Can it run java applets? Because phoenix won't for me.

Definatly alpha

It appears not to support scrolling. And the /. layout is completly messed up. Cool idea for embedded stuff, though. i'll still stick with phoenix for now.

Jazilla, Java, and the real world

Here's further proof that Java is best suited for applets and all attempts to kludge it into a general purpose tool for developing applications is appealing to academics, introverts and the type of people who like to compile all the software that they use. Command Line arguments?! Double-click on the Mozilla icon, for God's sake!

It works on Mac OS X.

Well, sort of.

It does load quite fast with or with out X11, and in both case, the text rendering is as smooth as Safari.

However, the GUI needs a lot of work - it doesn't even have a backward or forward button! Most sites (apple.com, hp.com, cnn.com, yahoo.com) don't load at all. Only ibm.com and news.com display some sort of contents.

In short, a long long way to go.

Re:WHY?

mozilla is slow. java is slow. jazilla is slow^2

I wonder if Intel is backing this project. They desparately need a reason to sell high-end chips.

Re:Slow Enough

I think Mozilla is slow enough, thank you.

It allows you to close tricked-into Goatse windows before they are finished. Goatsephobia has changed they way people browse. Slow is in.

Re:Yawn

I'm waiting for fuckzilla, written in brainfuck!

If you're gonna call it fuckzilla, you'd better write it in f*ckf*ck [chilliwilli.co.uk] instead ;)

Re:riiiiigggghhhht.....

perhaps that was a little harsh - the OSDN page rendered pretty good - Hell my scroll mouse worked with your app automatically!!! good shit

Re:woo..

No, you can't. I assume this was intended as a joke, but I may as well point out that unless a program is not an applet, unless it implements the interface Applet (I think thats the right name...). You can't run any random Java program from a web browser or applet viewer.

Re:woo..

You already could:

Re:woo..

You already can, with Mozilla, as this screenshot [andrewr.co.uk] shows.

Do not feed this troll

Troll signs (à la "worm signs" in Dune):
- dogmatic offensive pseudotruths (1st line);
- meaningless insult, liberally sprinkled with swear words (2nd line);
- main troll bait, hoping that mozilla users will feed him (3rd line);
- deadbrain conclusion (4th line).

Leave him alone and do not feed him, please.
I believe that if people want to experiment, they should.

Re:woo..

It's been possible to run IE inside IE for years already. (using ActiveX components)

Zaurus

Given the Zaurus's Java Suport with some mods this would be a great application for it.