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Writing Documentation

Posted by Cliff on Thu Jan 10, 2002 02:58 PM
from the the-unglamourous-side-of-development dept.
twms2h queries: "It is everybody's favorite task, the worst part of programming: writing the documentation. I have been charged with writing lots of documents, some smaller some larger, most of them documenting programs I wrote myself. In order to avoid the torture of fighting with Microsoft Word all the time (which crashes on me regularly) I am looking for an easy way to get printed and electronic (HTML/PDF) documents from as simple a source as possible. I have looked into several of the processing tools that are available on the net." Below is twms2h's take on a few of the documenting systems available. The preference is to keep things simple, editing ASCII files to produce high quality documentation. Are there other tools some of you know of that might prove to be better solutions?

"So far, I like aft, mostly because it is simple to use, and gives me nice result as HTML. Unfortunately HTML is not enough, since I also need a very good looking printable version.

There are alternatives like DocBook, which I could not get to work and udo (Page is German, get the translation from the fish) which I have not yet looked into very closely.

Then of course there is TeX and any number of WYSIWY-won't-G word processors. I haven't used TeX much, I only tried my luck in writing a few letters (and found out that it is not suitable for this). I went through hell when I wrote larger documents with various versions of MS Word and I am not really a fan of Star Office even though version 5.2 has not yet crashed on me (however 6.0 beta did). KWord, part of KOffice doesn't seem to be stable enough yet.

I would prefer a simple ASCII only format as the source for being converted to more complex formats anyway, especially since it could be easily put into CVS for version management (Anybody tried that with MS-Word documents? Don't!)

As all these projects show I am not the first one faced with this problem. I wonder what experiences Slashdot readers have had with these and other packages?"

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  • PEBKAC by way0utwest (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:01PM
    • Re:PEBKAC (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mcelrath (8027) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:08PM (#2818669) Homepage
      Uh, wrong.

      If an application crashes, it's the developer's fault. Period. End of story. It is NEVER the user's fault.

      To answer the article's question. I recommend LaTeX, LyX [lyx.org], latex2html (comes with LaTeX), and dvipdf (comes with ghostscript).

      --Bob

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:PEBKAC by Kallahar (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:18PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by iamabot (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:41PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by Gzusfreak (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:22PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by mark_lybarger (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:31PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by cprael (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:14PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by CrazyBrett (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:24PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by moyix (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:54PM
          • Re:PEBKAC by spectecjr (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:34PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by viking099 (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:25PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by Danse (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:41PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:PEBKAC by heikkile (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:12PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by grammar fascist (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:38PM
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      • Re:PEBKAC by ortholattice (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:27PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:05PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by darkwiz (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:29PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by Gannoc (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:49PM
      • This monkey gets insightfull? by cybrthng (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:33PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by c0rtez (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:44PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by dillon_rinker (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:53PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by FortKnox (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:56PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by SnapShot (Score:2) Friday January 11 2002, @10:38AM
      • Re:PEBKAC by PBCODER (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:17PM
      • StarOffice 6 XML. *waves goodbye to Tex forever* by Nailer (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:41PM
        • TeX gone? Nope. (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Grendel Drago (41496) on Thursday January 10 2002, @05:10PM (#2819789) Homepage
          Uh, no.

          METAFONT is pretty much integrated into TeX if you're using... well, I've only used teTeX and MiKTeX, but there are scripts to autogenerate any fonts that are needed.

          And... well, you can't compete with the userbase. It's been a standard for nearly twenty years. The original program is probably as close to bug-free as any large piece of software can possibly be. Did I mention the enormous userbase?

          TeX is far from dead. It's Knuth's dream that a TeX file written today will be compilable and readable in a hundred years. Given how entrenched the system is, I think this is quite likely.

          -grendel drago
          [ Parent ]
        • Re:StarOffice 6 XML. *waves goodbye to Tex forever by PONA-Boy (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:44PM
        • Re:StarOffice 6 XML. *waves goodbye to Tex forever by ponos (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @10:42AM
      • Re:PEBKAC by speleolinux (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @09:52PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by mcelrath (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:46PM
        • Re:PEBKAC (Score:5)

          by Omnifarious (11933) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:58PM (#2819130) Homepage Journal

          A car crash isn't the same as an application crash, sorry.

          Almost all application crashes are the developers fault. Only a very tiny percentage (< 0.001%) of application crashes are ever the users fault. Some of them may happen because the hardware or OS is buggy. But, that's not the user's fault. If the user goes into the registry and totally mucks it up, it still isn't the users fault. Even under Linux. If the user unplugs cards randomly from a non-hotswap PCI bus, that's the users fault. If the user breaks their system in some physical way, it's their fault. It is not ever acceptable behavior for a program to crash in the absence of a physical problem with the computer.

          [ Parent ]
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    • Re:PEBKAC by dperkins (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:09PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by mr.e (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:12PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Word isnt that great with big docs! by mercuryPeltier (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:12PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by josh253 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:23PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by 3am (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:53PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by josh253 (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @10:43AM
          • Re:PEBKAC by 3am (Score:2) Friday January 11 2002, @11:28AM
        • Re:PEBKAC by Isofarro (Score:2) Friday January 11 2002, @11:53AM
    • Re:PEBKAC by pmz (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:28PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by Thorin_ (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:38PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:PEBKAC... Agreed. by simetra (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:42PM
    • Windows Crashing, taking Word with it. by ka9dgx (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:50PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by affegott (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:04PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by affegott (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:50PM
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    • Re:PEBKAC by ADRA (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:06PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by frisket (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:29PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:PEBKAC by mrscott (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:17PM
      • I switched (Score:5, Insightful)

        by fireboy1919 (257783) <rustyp@@@freeshell...org> on Thursday January 10 2002, @04:56PM (#2819659) Homepage Journal
        I wrote a publication (16 pages, IEEE format) for Word and it was a REAL pain. Word stored the whole document in memory, which actually meant that part of it was cached to hard drive. I work in the Field of Computer Vision, so I necessarily had about 10 megs of images in there. Occasionally, that would be too much for the operating system, and I'd have to wait 15 minutes or so for the memory manager to catch and resolve some thrashing issues.

        Also, every time I changed anything at all, Word would move around the pictures and mess everything up - even though I had all the pictures positioned as "absolute." At the end of the publication, any 3 minute change at the beginning of the document took half an hour to fix.
        For the next publication, I did everything in Latex. The added bonus there was that format is separate from content, and the format descriptors where already written by IEEE (and by my school for my thesis).
        [ Parent ]
    • Re:PEBKAC by einhverfr (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:32PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by quan74 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:50PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by einhverfr (Score:2) Friday January 11 2002, @09:01PM
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    • Re:PEBKAC by Tattva (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:32PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by dodald (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:24PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:PEBKAC by Gzusfreak (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:42PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by quan74 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:55PM
        • Re:PEBKAC by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:10PM
          • Re:PEBKAC by uebernewby (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @09:34PM
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    • Re:PEBKAC by Carpathius (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:52PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by WMNelis (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:56PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by ComputerSlicer23 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:57PM
      • Re:PEBKAC by F452 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:12PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by Remote (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:13PM
    • Re:PEBKAC by xtremex (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @11:16PM
    • 12 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Out of curiousity (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sheepdot (211478) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:01PM (#2818599) Journal
    Just out of curiousity, what are you writing documentation for? I myself would approach the problem according to what kind of software it was, and who the intended audience was.
  • A point about M$ word (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:02PM (#2818605)
    It will do versioning. See the menu file/versions
  • boop! by nege (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:03PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • try YODL (Score:5, Informative)

    by CommanderTaco (85921) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:03PM (#2818617)
    the samba guys used to use YODL before they switched to docbook. pretty easy to use, and you can convert to other document languages including html, latex, etc.
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien/yodl/ [xs4all.nl]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • LYX (Score:5, Informative)

    by ocelotbob (173602) <ocelot.ocelotbob@org> on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:03PM (#2818618) Homepage
    Have you tried LyX? [lyx.org] It's a very powerful multiplatform typesetting program. Seems to do everything you want it to do.
    • Re:LYX by ryk (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:14PM
    • Re:LYX by StCredZero (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:15PM
      • Re:LYX by Goner (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:40PM
      • Re:LYX by Danse (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:46PM
    • Re:LYX by KerrAvonsen (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @08:39PM
    • Re:LYX by muleboy (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @12:34AM
    • Re:LYX -- for DocBook! by denespal (Score:1) Saturday January 12 2002, @10:30AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • The limits of LyX and DocBook? by MattCC (Score:1) Tuesday January 15 2002, @07:30PM
  • I think everyone agrees that... by Eharley (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:04PM
  • Check out doxygen (Score:5, Informative)

    by plalonde2 (527372) <(ten.sulet) (ta) (ednolalp)> on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:04PM (#2818627)
    Doxygen [doxygen.org] lets you mark up your source code pretty easily, and generates decent looking documents. You can use the same markup (and cross-reference facilities) in non-code documents processed at the same time.
    • Re:Check out doxygen by yem (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:09PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by notsoanonymouscoward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:10PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by mcspock (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:17PM
    • For a real-world example... (Score:5, Informative)

      by devphil (51341) on Thursday January 10 2002, @04:00PM (#2819151) Homepage


      We're using Doxygen to generate HTML and man pages (!) for libstdc++-v3 [gnu.org], the standard C++ library that comes with g++ 3.x. Doxygen can also generate LaTeX, RTF/Word, and some other formats which I don't remember. If you have some additional nifty utilities installed, and tell Doxygen where they are, then Doxygen can automatically use them. Take a look at the inheritence and collaboration graphs on the pages I linked to: normally they're much plainer, and not color-coded. But I had dot(1) installed, which can generate pretty graphs.

      Incidentally, LaTeX is much better than TeX when doing letters. There's a set of macros specifically for writing letters, and I use them all the time for, say, business letters.

      .

      I'm told that it's not that hard to write a module for Doxygen to teach it how to create a new output format, if the half-dozen it knows about don't fit your needs.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Check out doxygen by nodrip (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:01PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by Manoj (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:11PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by gpinzone (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:32PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by WasterDave (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:57PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by Karellen (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:37PM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by TheMiller (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @12:30AM
    • doxygen for samba by boots@work (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @12:51AM
    • Re:Check out doxygen by Raving (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @04:30AM
  • what kind of documentation? by SirSlud (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:04PM
  • And the solution is ... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:05PM
  • Docs?!? Feh... by Wee (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:05PM
  • Documentation is not evil! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deblau (68023) <slashdot.25.flickboy@spamgourmet.com> on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:06PM (#2818643) Journal
    In fact, in most projects, documentation is more important than the code itself! This rule holds for all programs you intend for someone other than yourself to run (or, heaven forbid, debug later). My general rule of thumb for doing projects is:
    1. Do feature reqs (10%)
    2. Do design spec / unit spec (30%)
    3. Do documentation (30%)
    4. Write code (15%)
    5. Beta-test / debug (15%)
    Notice that design and documentation take up more than half the time on the project. Implementing the code becomes very easy with good, fleshed-out design and documentation.

    As for solving your problem, I generally write documentation in-code using one style of comments and line-by-line comments using another style. Then forming docs from the code is easy: write a little perl script to extract the block comments, and format as you like.

    • Re:Documentation is not evil! by tagevm (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:19PM
      • Re:Documentation is not evil! by RC514 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:34PM
      • Re:Documentation is not evil! by Stonehand (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:35PM
      • Re:Documentation is not evil! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by FortKnox (169099) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:38PM (#2818973) Homepage Journal
        but you write the documentation as comments to the code you haven't written yet

        ABSOLUTELY!
        You should design every object and every function (down to what the functions input and return are) before coding everything. You should be able to write comments on the function (on the function, not in. Even having stubs for the function) before it is written. Then, you know EXACTLY what the function needs to do when you code it. You even have a nice reference doc for your teammates (if you use javadoc with java).

        I've taken this approach MANY times, and I can't tell you how SIMPLE it is to code with this. Its like a homework assignment "Write a function foo, that takes two integers, adds them, and returns it as a real". The code practically writes itself. And the project manager usually doesn't have any trouble tying all the objects together.

        I might as well add that this is a great technique to make open source work well and fast.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Documentation is not evil! by Dominic_Mazzoni (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:32PM
        • Re:Documentation is not evil! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Thursday January 10 2002, @05:06PM (#2819751)
          You should design every object and every function (down to what the functions input and return are) before coding everything.

          Sorry, gotta disagree with that. The place of design docs is not to mandate the details, like the exact function inputs and outputs. The place of the design docs is to paint the big picture, perhaps down to assigning the responsibilities to the major building blocks of your code (principle functions, classes, etc.).

          Requirements change. This is a fact of life. No real project I've seen since I was a student had requirements that stayed fixed, or even close to fixed, during a whole development cycle. As a result, your design must change.

          Furthermore, your initial design will probably be flawed in many ways you don't anticipate until you start trying to implement it. Unless you're copying an algorithm out of a textbook or a design you've used before, you'll be lucky to be even close to your final design on your first pass. As a result, your design will evolve.

          If you attempt to record every little detail in the design docs, two things will happen. First, you will cripple the pace of development, as you spend more time updating paperwork than you spend developing. Secondly, your design docs will rapidly become out of date, and hence useless anyway.

          The correct place for comments about the details is in the code. This is where you should record the exact input/output parameters of a function, the behaviour in error cases or the meaning of a little helper function. A combination of descriptive names for things and judicious use of comments will do far more for you than a 500 page printout of last month's code base.

          Making your code its own detailed documentation allows for fast prototyping -- often the quickest way to find a good basic design -- and for ready modifications as the design evolves. This leaves design docs free to do what they should: recording the overall design.

          Welcome to the 21st century, where the waterfall model dried up.

          [ Parent ]
        • Re:Documentation is not evil! by Boatman (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:47PM
        • Re:Documentation is not evil! by cfulmer (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @08:37PM
      • Re:Documentation is not evil! by MaxwellStreet (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:50PM
    • Re:Documentation is not evil! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:19PM
    • Re:Documentation is not evil! by DrSkwid (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:02PM
    • BAH! by battjt (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:44PM
    • Re:Documentation is not evil! by coldtone (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:53PM
    • 6 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • TeX? by whee (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:06PM
    • Re:TeX? by elmegil (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:14PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • No question - use LaTex by gcshaw2nd (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:07PM
  • texinfo (Score:3, Interesting)

    by phr2 (545169) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:07PM (#2818653)
    Call me a throwback or GNU-head but I like texinfo. The stuff you type reflects the structure of your document, it's plain ascii (easy to edit with emacs or your favorite editor), and compiles to online docs, html, or printed docs using TeX. It does make some impositions on your writing style but I find the texinfo formatting commands much easier to deal with than (say) html tags. I use it even when I want plain ascii docs. I just don't put in any "node" commands. Then I run the texinfo doc
    through the emacs formatter and use the formatted ascii output.

    So, it's old and limited but still my favorite.
    • Re:texinfo by Jason Earl (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:18PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Doxygen (Score:3, Informative)

    by dan g (30777) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:07PM (#2818657) Homepage
    It depends on your specific needs. Are you documenting the source or documenting program usage? For the former, doxygen [stack.nl] may be useful to you. Generates HTML and LaTeX, amongs other formats.

    dan.
  • JavaDoc? (Score:5, Informative)

    by FortKnox (169099) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:08PM (#2818662) Homepage Journal
    Find something similar to Javadoc (unless you code in Java). Rational has a great set of suites to also document projects.

    And I don't think "documenting" is the worst part of programming. Its very sterotypical.
    I love design, and document while coding (usually in Java with Javadoc comments). Isn't that the way you are supposed to code?

    Especially in a team environment (even more "especially" with Open Source), documentation is critical. Having a good design documented well is how developers should interact with one another.

    Also check TogetherSoft. They have software that creates the UML while you code.
    I also like Together's identification of titles. A "Developer" is someone that designs, codes, and documents. A "Coder" is someone that codes. Which are you?
  • Docbook, docbook, docbook. (Score:5, Informative)

    by seebs (15766) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:08PM (#2818668) Homepage
    I'm doing a bunch of documentation right now, and I *LOVE* docbook. I agree, it's a bit of a pain to set up; we started with openjade as a basis, and worked from there.

    Still, I love the format; it's clear, it's precise, and it's very well-suited to documentation.

    BTW, I'd like to point out that, if you think documentation is the worst part of programming, you're probably not writing very good documentation. Documentation can be a lot of fun. Think of it as a way to make sure that you won't have to do the maintenance later, because anyone will be able to do it based on your writing. :)
    • Re:Docbook, docbook, docbook. (Score:4, Informative)

      by PlazMan (40335) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:17PM (#2818757) Homepage
      I have to second that. DocBook can be a pain to get started with and learn, partially because it's soooo flexible and powerful. I probably spent a week getting all of the pieces together (editor, DTDs, Xalan, XSL, etc), but now I find it quite easy to churn out anything from a full reference manual to some simple man pages.

      I finally found Morphon's XML Editor [morphon.com] and have been quite happy with it for editing DocBook documents (despite the fact that it's currently a beta version that will crash once in a while).
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Docbook, docbook, docbook. (Score:4, Informative)

      by hackerhue (182083) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:24PM (#2818827) Homepage
      I agree. I love docbook. If you can write HTML, chances are you can do docbook. It's plain text, so you can edit it in whatever program you want to.

      It's a bit of a pain to set up, but once it's going, it's great (much like most of Linux, I find ;-) ). I use Jade -- openjade seems to be slower, and I couldn't see any advantage of openjade over Jade.

      My only complaint about docbook is that it (currently) doesn't do math too well -- I use Walsh's stylesheets, and they don't seem to grok MathML yet -- so I have to stick with LaTeX for some things still. Oh, and its table support doesn't seem to be complete when using the TeX backend, so things may come out in unexpected ways.
      [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Docbook, docbook, docbook. by Arandir (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:29PM
  • No fame by RC514 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:09PM
    • Re:No fame by Antipop (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:22PM
  • Possible solution by Fembot (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:09PM
  • What about Robohelp? by mr.buddylee (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:10PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • convert simple html to pdf by uncadonna (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:10PM
  • LaTeX seemed the simplest way (Score:5, Insightful)

    by StormC (36655) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:11PM (#2818697)
    I've been writing documentation for a little while now and LaTeX always seemed the best way to solve the problem. You can make nice pdf and print version. Yes it takes some time to get use to and most WYSIWYG people don't like it but it rocks in CVS.
    • Re:LaTeX seemed the simplest way (Score:5, Informative)

      by klund (53347) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:58PM (#2819127)
      You can make nice pdf and print version. Yes it takes some time to get use to and most WYSIWYG people don't like it but it rocks in CVS.

      In addition to producing HTML and PDF with latex2html and pdflatex, there are some other features in TeX/LaTeX that appeal to code monkeys like me.

      1. Real include files. For example, you can write a mission statement page that gets included in the front of all your documents. When the mission statement changes, you only have to update it in one place, and all your documents reflect the change.

      2. \ifthenelse{}{}{} conditionals. This is really handy when combined with the include files above. I have one set of source files that produce three completely different (but related) documents based on a few \def statements. For example, one's for internal use only and one's for wide release, but I only have to fix typos once.

      3. Define (\def) statements. I keep version numbers and product names here. PHB says "We just changed the product name from "iCrap" to "eCrap". No problem. It's even easier than search-and-replace.

      4. Comments. I comment the source files the my LaTeX documents. Most the time it's just snide remarks, but sometimes I leave useful comments behind.

      %% The behavior described in the next paragraph
      %% used to be a bug. Now we charge extra for it.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:LaTeX seemed the simplest way by BbMaj7 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:48PM
    • Buy a Latex book by neves (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @12:00AM
    • Re: TeXInfo is better than LaTeX by fireboy1919 (Score:2) Saturday January 12 2002, @08:10AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Another Great Benefit of Java (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Enonu (129798) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:11PM (#2818699) Homepage
    Javadocs are one of the best resource I have at my disposal for documenting my programs and reading the documentation of others. It's a wonder something like this wasn't in mind for every major language ever conceived. Never seen them before in action? Here's a link [sun.com] to the docs on Sun's website. Upper left corner is the specific package you want (like namespaces). The default view is all classes. Lower left is the classes for the current package chosen. The main frame contains the specfic documentation for that class. Everything is hyperlinked to everything else, so getting from one relevant document to another is cake.

    I believe there are other systems that implement a Javadoc like utility for other language. Do a google for "Javadoc for C++" for example and plent of links show up.

    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Wiki (Score:3, Informative)

    by Big Sean O (317186) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:11PM (#2818700) Homepage
    Try a Wiki.

    A fairly simple web application that allows a group to work on documentation together. Since it uses simple formatting rules, it's trivial to learn.

    It's the simplest way I know to let a workgroup develop a document.

    They have Wiki's that run on Perl, Python, Smalltalk, and PHP so it's easy to find one that you can modify to your heart's content.

    Most of the advanced wiki's have all types of bells and whistles (Eg: version control, authenicated users). Some of the wiki's can dump everything from the Wiki database to static HTML or TXT for further processing (which is nice when you actually want to publish).
    • Re:Wiki by LL (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:31PM
  • Simple Document Format by anxious (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:12PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Custom Format by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:12PM
  • javadoc works well for Java code by AirHog (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:12PM
  • gobeProductive 3.0 by tswinzig (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:14PM
  • Try sticking with TeX by pemerson (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:14PM
  • Word and CVS? by bill0r (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:15PM
  • LyX - best of both worlds by movement (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:15PM
  • HTMLDOC by X-Nc (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:16PM
  • HTML, LaTeX, LyX., Word... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Faramir (61801) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:19PM (#2818776) Homepage Journal

    A few notes from my experience:

    HTML: easy to write, easy to format. HTML TIDY [w3.org] will make everything beautiful for you. HTML actually prints very nicely. I believe most browsers will let you turn off the default page header/footers. I can see, however, that page breaks might be an issue. You'll probably want to use style sheets anyway, and there's a feature in CSS2 that allows for defining page breaks (Paged Media documentation [w3.org]). Also see Converting HTML to other formats [w3.org].

    LaTeX: Personally, I'm a big fan of LaTeX. Never tried pure TeX. However, once (if!) I master the CSS2 paged media commands, I'll probably abandon LaTeX. I don't know that one's really any easier than the other; it's just comes down to the simple fact that I know HTML better.

    LyX: I found this very non-intuitive and gave up on it quickly. As I recall, the tab key did not work as I expected it, and various things just weren't what I expected them to be.

    Word: I know you, the poster, don't want to use Word, so this is for others who must use it. I dislike MS as much as the next /., but I must say that Word is actually a very good product. There are things that annoy me (especially placement of pictures), and there's the macro virus issue, but you probably don't need macros in documentation anyway. As someone else pointed out, there are versioning features in Word. In addition, there are collaboration features that let you track, accept, and reject changes. The style sheets are pretty powerful (most people never use them), and allow you to quickly and easily create tables of contents. And of course, if you're in Windows and have Word already, and assuming it does not constantly crash, it's really the easiest thing to use. Just don't try exporting your document to HTML!

    • Re:HTML (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ChristTrekker (91442) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:46PM (#2819043)

      You missed one of the nicest features of using HTML/XML for documention: the fact that with CSS you can get basic content transformation.

      What does it mean? It means that you can have rules for online display (that we're most familiar with), different style rules that kick in only when you print (implemented in Mozilla and Opera), and different rules only when you are projecting a presentation (implemented [opera.com] in Opera). This lets you make it accessible on the WWW, yet write your documentation only once without futzing with a nicer "print friendly" copy. If you do a presentation, you can point your audience to the very URL you're using for their later reference. Less chance for confusion.

      [ Parent ]
    • Word is horrible (Score:5, Insightful)

      by coyote-san (38515) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:59PM (#2819140)
      MS Word is about the worst tool around for writers.

      The problem is that it forces, FORCES, you to deal with presentation issues at all times. When I'm writing, I want to focus on the content. How is the material broken down into major sections, into chapters, into topics? What information needs to be presented before a new topic will make sense? What topics will be treated as reference material, needing easy lookup?

      This is hard enough to do with regular interruptions, but with text it's possible. I write an outline, DocBookify it, then write straight text within it while using minimal tags. When I'm happy with the content, I work on presentation (and usually loop between them a few times.)

      But Word is so damn helpful that I'm constantly interrupted. I mispelled a wrod or two, gotta fix it NOW. Esp. with the increasingly intrusive "autocorrection" that insists on "fixing" things. (And don't get me started on it's ideas of what a properly formed URL looks like, never mind the RFCs.) There's the issues around the Redmondian English. My grammar isn't perfect, but highly technical material often requires extremely complex sentences to adequately convey the nuances. Green lines are another distraction. Then there's the whole issue of lists, tables, indentations, etc. sucking your attention because you're forced to deal with presentation before you're entirely sure what's going into them. (Two tables or three? What drives columns, what drives rows?)

      Is it any wonder I, and many other people, find Word documents to be unusually vacuous? Not every text document in a Jon Postel RFC, of course, but there seems to be a direct correlation between the meat in a document and its original format. Straight text seem to be written to HS or college level, Word documents seem to be written to Jr High level at most. The problem is the polish - Word documents often strike me as first or second drafts, not finished documents. But they sure are pretty.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Word is horrible by ChristTrekker (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:25PM
      • Maybe you aren't using it effectively by Weasel Boy (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:51PM
      • Re:Word is horrible by RadioheadKid (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:44PM
      • No, you're an idiot (Score:5, Insightful)

        by RebornData (25811) on Thursday January 10 2002, @06:24PM (#2820289) Homepage
        I use Word almost every day, and while many of your comments are true for default behavior, you clearly have not attempted to actually learn the program. To take the issues in the order you cite them:

        1. Word actually doesn't force you to deal with presentation issues at all times. Are you familiar with outline mode? I usually do my first drafts in outline mode, which allows you to focus entirely on content and structure independent of formatting. Outline mode works with styles to specify formatting globally for a given level in the outline. So if the top level in your outline applies to chapters, you can easily define a chapter heading style that will be automatically applied to all the top-level items. It really works well.

        2. It's been said already, but it's worth repeating: Real-time spelling and grammar correction are really easy to turn off. Really easy.

        3. Lists & indentations. You should learn how to use styles. This is exactly what they are for. For example, my default template has a "bullet list" style. If I want something to be a bullet list, I apply this style to it. The "tags" aren't visible, but they effectively are there. If I ever decide that a bullet list needs to be indented differently, or have square instead of round bullets, I can make the change once for the style. Once you've set up your default doc template with a reasonable set of styles, you never have to worry about presentation during early stages.

        4. I don't understand what you say about tables.

        5. "Word documents seem to be written to Jr. High level at most"? What the hell? This is broad generalization at it's worst. I bet more doctoral dissertations are written in Word than anything else. Although I did get a good laugh thinking about what the average grade level of a /. post would be...

        Now, I'm not saying Word is the end-all be-all. I'm just saying that you're an idiot because of the 10000 things wrong with it, you've picked issues that are almost univerally untrue, and simply reflect that you haven't learned to use it.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Word is horrible by moore234 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:54PM
      • You have never used Outline mode, have you? by Blue Lozenge (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:25PM
      • Re:Word is horrible by dublin (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:45PM
      • Re:Word is horrible by eMilkshake (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @08:21PM
    • Re:HTML, LaTeX, LyX., Word... by hereticmessiah (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:01PM
    • Re:HTML, LaTeX, LyX., Word... by fperez (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:01PM
    • LaTeX vs WYSIWYG by bcrowell (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:27PM
    • Re:HTML, LaTeX, LyX., Word... by PlaysWithMatches (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:10PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Plain text by LosManos (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:19PM
  • e-TeX by MrBubbles (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:19PM
  • WordPerfect (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mkoenecke (249261) <mkoenecke AT alum DOT haverford DOT edu> on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:19PM (#2818782) Homepage
    Remember WordPerfect? Version 9, SP4, is rock solid stable and does not suffer from Word's inability to handle long documents. (The primary culprit: Word's continuous repagination and reformatting, required by the document structure.) Versioning is supported, and WordPerfect, unlike Word, has the native ability to generate PDF files. Version 10, SP2 does even better, formatting hyperlinks automatically in PDF files, but I won't recommend it yet because there's a nasty interaction bug between it and Mozilla.

    Not to mention WordPerfect's ultimate advantage over Word: Reveal Codes. In Word, any fouled-up formatting can only be fixed by *different* formatting. In WordPerfect, you can *remove* offending code. And it's more customizable, doing things the way you want them done, not the way Microsoft dictates. I could go on about dozens of other advantages, too.

    Oh yeah, there are Linux versions available too (albeit using Wine).

    Frankly, I'm amazed that any person with technical knowledge and expertise would use Word by choice.
    • Re:WordPerfect by TechnoLust (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:50PM
    • Re:WordPerfect by Peale (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:04PM
    • Re:WordPerfect by istartedi (Score:3) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:31PM
      • Re:WordPerfect by Syberghost (Score:2) Friday January 11 2002, @04:01PM
    • Re:WordPerfect by rmcd (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:25PM
    • Re:WordPerfect by conan_albrecht (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:30PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • TEX / LATEX resources by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:20PM
  • docbook does work, and works well (Score:5, Informative)

    by jeffr (28143) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:20PM (#2818792)
    We're using the preloaded docbook on RH7.2
    and it works fine.

    Grab some emacs elisp files from sourceforge
    to round out the package and you are good to go
    with tag completion and font color locking
    in emacs.

    Docbook advantages:

    * no worries about formatting, just write content

    * can generate html, postscript, possibly wml, carved stone tablets, etc.

    * can be parsed by freely available xml parsers
    to intelligently extract, say, all authors, all section titles. This could be done with raw
    perl, but why rewrite an xml parser when so
    many already exist?

    * documents can be easily stored in an OODB,
    using an xml->object marshaller, if you are
    into that sort of thing. This allows
    any number of documents to be subject to
    the full power of the database querying
    and indexing.

    Latex (tex) is great, and I've used it for 20 years,
    but its definitely not the same thing as docbook.

    Latex
    allows - encourages actually - one to think
    about appearance while writing the document.
    And you do get great looking output.
    But you sacrifice everything that docbook/xml
    offers in terms of document parsing for other
    purposes.
  • Drop that word processor and walk away slowly. by wbattestilli (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:20PM
  • doc++ by veggiespam (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:21PM
  • LyX by hereticmessiah (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:22PM
  • No question - use LaTeX (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jelson (144412) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:22PM (#2818811) Homepage
    I grappled with exactly this problem for years. I wanted something that would give me superb quality Postscript/PDF, good HTML, and at least passable ASCII text. (In 1994, it was still important to distribute ASCII documentation; not everyone had a web browser.)

    I went back and forth with all sorts of things: SGML based solutions, a few more "proprietary" utilities, etc. Finally, the latex-to-other-format conversion tools got to be good enough that I could use LaTeX as my primary format.

    My most recent documentation is for FUSD [circlemud.org], a Linux framework for user-space devices. The original documentation source is LaTeX. Simply running LaTeX gives you DVI, which you can convert into publication quality Postscript [circlemud.org]. Using pdflatex (NOT ps2pdf), you can also create very high quality PDF [circlemud.org], which includes a real PDF table of contents, cross-references, and URL links. Finally, using latex2html, you can create almost native-quality HTML documentation [circlemud.org]. And, if you really need ASCII, you can get a reasonable rendering by running lynx (in its ASCII-dump mode) over the HTML.

    latex2html comes with special LaTeX macros that let you specify hyperlinks inside your document. They are rendered as real hyperlinks in HTML, and footnotes in the printed versions.
  • Migrating from LaTeX to DocBook by 4of12 (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:23PM
  • FOP by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:23PM
    • Re:FOP by cakoose (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:12PM
  • Word ... by TheViffer (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:25PM
  • A few... by Matthew Weigel (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:25PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Not to be the obvious, but upgrade to Win2k or XP by cybrthng (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:25PM
  • Use a simple LaTeX preprocessor by Bramsted (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:26PM
  • Tex not suitable?? by Carbon Unit 549 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:27PM
  • POD by Genady (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:30PM
  • obvious joke, sorry (Score:3, Funny)

    by Graspee_Leemoor (302316) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:30PM (#2818891) Homepage Journal
    "I have been charged with writing lots of documents"

    ...In the trial of the /. submitter vs the hacker community the defendant was found guilty of writing documentation. He also asked for several charges of using meaningful variable names be taken into consideration.

    graspee
  • Just a note by Magus311X (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:30PM
  • Software602 PCsuite by cbass377 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:30PM
  • Use DocBook and document as you code (Score:3, Insightful)

    by UsonianAutomatic (236235) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:31PM (#2818906) Homepage
    Or document even before you start coding, as someone else already mentioned; I've found that starting documentation early on accomplishes two things:
    1. it helps the planning process immensely by forcing you to really think about what your code is going to be doing, and
    2. it ensures that the documentation end of the project doesn't get short shrift; once the code is done it's too easy to gloss over the documentation when the next project is breathing down your neck.
    DocBook easy to author with... the pain in the neck part is setting up a processing environment with Jade/OpenJade/DSSSL, but it's well worth it. It's also possible to use XSL/XSLT to process DocBook XML, but I don't know how involved the setup is. YMMV.
  • Docbook explained by KDE's team by gfilion (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:31PM
  • LEO, Donald Knuth & Literate Programming by Belly of the Beast (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:32PM
  • HappyDoc by Arkham (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:32PM
  • Linuxgazette by toadnine (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:34PM
  • LyX by bytor4232 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:34PM
    • Re:LyX by JHillyerd (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:40PM
      • Re:LyX by Antity (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @04:51AM
        • Re:LyX by Dekel (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @07:25AM
  • Look at the data format first by duplicatedAccount (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:35PM
  • Darwin Information Typing Architecture - From IBM by LetterJ (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:36PM
  • The problem I have with Documentation Systems by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:38PM
  • XML/XSL by sct (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:38PM
  • Personally by cavemanf16 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:40PM
  • Some things I used to use... by Uttles (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:40PM
  • HeaderDoc by soft_guy (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:41PM
  • AuthorIT by yndrd (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:41PM
  • Another vote for LaTeX here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:42PM (#2819016)

    Put me down for LaTeX as well, please. In its favour (in this particular context)...

    1. It takes input in a text format. Use CVS, your favourite editor, etc.
    2. It also produces excellent quality output, and generating HTML, PostScript and PDF output are all straightforward with standard tools.
    3. It can generate things like cross-references, tables of contents and citations very easily.
    4. There are good packages available for free that can typeset code right out of the source file.
    5. There are freely available and very powerful diagramming tools that plug right in. (Anyone know of a speciality UML drawing package, BTW? The usual tools are OK, but I've never found, say, some Metapost macros to make it completely trivial the way it could be. Surely someone must have written some!)
    6. The maths typesetting is all there if you need it, of course. That's very useful if you're working on a scientific app and need to document the algorithms as part of the design, and it doesn't get in the way if you don't need it.
    7. It's available for minimal money and effort.
    8. It's highly extensible. If you need to do something that doesn't come as standard, you almost certainly can (and someone else almost certainly already has, and put it on CTAN for you).

    The only downside I can think of is the learning curve. Basic LaTeX use is fine, but for really good output, you're going to want your own class file and/or packages. That's fantastic once you've got it -- all your docs follow a consistent style, and you can make it easy for newbies to learn the tool. Someone has to be pretty sharp to write the class/packages in the first place, though, or you have to be prepared to buy in expert help for a couple of days.

  • Why documentation never ends by qurob (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:43PM
  • by klund (53347) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:44PM (#2819029)
    1. LaTeX math mode is a thing of beauty. Equations come out looking correct. Mathematical expressions in Word are treated as an afterthought. Equation editor is evil.
    2. TeX is guaranteed to be bug free. The author, Stanford Professor Donald Knuth, will send you a reward check is you find a bug. The reward is currently $327.68 (that is, 2^15 cents).
    3. TeX is free (as in beer) and free (as in speech).
    4. TeX has real comments. Anyone who doesn't comment their code is an ass.
    5. TeX provides a full, turing-complete, language. The text produced by your input file can be the result of conditionals (which I use to reuse sections in different documents) or the result of complicated calculations. In the TeXbook, Knuth demonstrates the power of the TeX language by defining the \primes{n} command, which calculates and print the first n primes (see page 218).
    6. There are no LaTeX "macro" viruses. You can safely receive LaTeX documents by email and not worry about it reading your OutLook address book and mailing copies of itself to all your friends.
    7. LaTeX has no GUID (Globally Unique Identifier). Word documents are embedded with a code than can be traced back to your computer (the police captued the author of the Melissa virus by tracing his GUID). Big brother Bill is watching!
    8. LaTeX versions are not incompatible. The file format has never changed. I have LaTeX files from 1989 that work without problem in the latest version of LaTeX.
    9. There is no undo feature in TeX. This is a good thing. No one can ever seen earlier versions of your TeX document by pressing the Undo button.
    10. LaTeX documents are small and lean. What's the smallest Word file on your computer?
  • Re: documentation by DRO0 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:44PM
  • Word and CVS is possible. by matt[0] (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:44PM
  • LaTeX + Ktexmaker2 by Framboise (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:46PM
  • Framemaker by bark76 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:51PM
    • Re:Framemaker by tmurrow (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:56PM
  • Applixware / Anyware by motorsabbath (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:52PM
  • My suggestion - Word Perfect!!! by NOT-2-QUICK (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:53PM
  • tried XML? by Hooya (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:55PM
  • FrameMaker?? by Belly of the Beast (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:55PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Framemaker by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:56PM
  • Adobe Framemaker by L-Train8 (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:57PM
  • Where's the forest? What's that about a tree? by Apostata (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:57PM
  • use plain text by InsaneCreator (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:58PM
  • The Best Solution (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FFFish (7567) on Thursday January 10 2002, @03:59PM (#2819141) Homepage
    There are currently only two good long-document solutions:

    FrameMaker, from Adobe.

    Ventura, from Corel.

    They both have roughly equivalent functionality. FrameMaker is more accepted in the technical writing world. Ventura has a much, *much* better user interface. Ventura also has an incredible user support group. [corel.ca] The latter two aspects put Ventura in the lead by several lengths, in my opinion. A feature comparison is available here. [coreluser.com] (Its automatic database publishing engine is worth it's weight in gold!)

    Ventura is currently in beta-testing for a next-edition release. This edition is going to include XML support, presumably integrated with SoftQuad's products. Given that WordPerfect has had good SGML support for years, I find this to be very, very exciting news.

    If you can get over any misgivings over the Corel name, you'll find that Ventura is the ultimate in long-document publishing. It's been around since 1986, and is more feature-complete than Quark, PageMaker, InDesign, and FrameMaker. And of those, FrameMaker is the only application that can be considered to be in the same class. Quark, PageMaker, and InDesign are short-document (ie. magazine advertisement layout) programs, and are absolutely horrible for use in long-document publishing.

    FrameMaker and Ventura both fully satisfy your needs. Both can take in XML/SGML. Both produce PDF. Both can create HTML. Both handle documents thousands of pages in length with thousands of images. Both kick the living shit out of MSWord!

    You only need to decide which is going to be easier to use, how much you'll want community support, which set of functionality you need, and how much you want to spend.

    My money is on Ventura.

    (It is, in fact, the only application I've ever used that I look forward to using. Every time I start it, I'm delighted!)

    (Ventura users tend to be very enthusiastic about the product. We also tend to wonder why anyone would ever use anything else: we've tried the rest, and figure this is the best. :-) )
  • roff by PotatoMan (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:01PM
  • silly answer: use what you know! by rjnagle (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:03PM
  • Pod - Perl's Plain Old Documentation by Big Stick (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:04PM
  • FrameMaker by jason_j_hinze (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:11PM
  • FrameMaker + mif2go = almost any output you like. by Rikardon (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:12PM
  • Docbook clarification by VValdo (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:13PM
  • DocBook is my choice by slagdogg (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:14PM
  • Cweb/Web: Literate Programming Tools by seawall (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:16PM
  • Text Editors by underclocked (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:17PM
  • XML & XSL by Bongo Wafer (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:21PM
  • Hire a tech writer by y_a_duck (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:22PM
  • Ever hear of NegWeb or NoWeb? by Nindalf (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:22PM
  • Doxygen by ScroP (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:24PM
  • by swillden (191260) <shawn-sd@willden.org> on Thursday January 10 2002, @04:28PM (#2819479) Homepage Journal

    I've been using XML and Docbook for a while now, and I really, really like it, particularly if you use Docbook as an intermediate format rather than what you actually write your documentation in.

    For example, I've got some really nice stuff for building use cases in XML. I created my own DTD for a use case language (which I call UCML) that allows me to define actors, use cases, goals, glossary terms, etc. Use cases consist primarily of a sequence of steps (nestable) with links to actors, terms, other use cases or steps, goals, etc. along with some other tags that define the name, extends relationships with other use cases, termination states and conditions, preconditions, business rules, etc.

    I also have some XSLT stylesheets that do a number of nifty things with these UCML documents. One stylesheet transforms UCML to HTML, complete with every imaginable hyperlink, tables of contents etc., and even deduces a bunch of relationships which it documents (and hyperlinks). For example, if a use case mentions an actor or another use case in its steps, the stylesheet adds a section to the HTML description of that use case that documents the fact that this use case uses (in the OO sense) that one, or that this actor participates, and adds similar information to the descriptions of the use case and actor that are referenced. This is just a sample, the stylesheet does a lot more, and produces very *usable* and consistent documentation.

    Another stylesheet acts as a sort of garbage collector. Phases (groups of Use Cases intented to implemented together) and Use Cases can be marked as "dead", in which case the UCML->HTML stylesheet will "hide" them (they won't show up in the output). The garbage collector stylesheet takes this a step further and analyzes all actors, glossary terms, entities, goals, etc. and produces a new UCML document that does not include elements unreferenced by a "live" use case. So, I can mark some currently uninteresting use cases as dead, run the garbage collector, run the UCML->HTML stylesheet on the result and get a nicely formatted document that contains only the supporting information required for the included use cases.

    HTML is not ideal for printing, though, and this is where Docbook comes in. I have a UCML->Docbook stylesheet that does essentially the same things as the UCML->HTML stylesheet. Then I can convert the Docbook to PDF, Postscript, TeX, etc.

    I've also created my own XML languages for component models, architectural decisions documents and others -- it's pretty easy to gin one up whenever I come across another sort of highly structure document I need to write. Plus I have one that I use for simple, less-structured documentation that just provides sections, paragraphs, etc. Mostly I just have whatever->HTML stylesheets for most of these, since they're all intended to be read by developers who are less insistent than end-users on having printable formats.

    So, I have nice, text documents that I can use EMACS on, manage in CVS, etc., stylesheets I can fiddle with (when I get sick of writing documentation I can always spend a little time improving the stylesheet code and justify it as "documentation" effort :-) ) and everyone else gets really nice docs from me. The biggest downside is that other people (non-programmer types who are uncomfortable with tagged text) are often uncomfortable with trying to edit my documents (sometimes it's a good thing, as it allows me to retain the "power of the pen", sometimes its bad as even trivial updates must pass through me).

    The next steps with UCML are (1) figure out how to establish and maintain XMI-documented use cases and UCML-documented use cases and (2) write a WYSIWYG-like tool for editing them, for the tag-averse.

    BTW, if anyone is interested in using the stuff I've described, drop me a line. I've been thinking about putting it up on SourceForge, but don't know if there's enough interest to make it worthwhile.

  • Technical Writers by Leperflesh (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:31PM
  • LaTeX! by X86Daddy (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:35PM
  • Get a Technical Writer by wagadog (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:42PM
  • Mac OS X by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:46PM
  • Writing documentation is not a programming task by timbck2 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:48PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • A little off-topic but of note by Hangtime (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:51PM
  • doctext by schwep (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:51PM
  • Structured markup is the only way to fly... by Ed Bailey (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:51PM
  • Hardware stability? by MrResistor (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:54PM
  • Just use HTML... by mengel (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:58PM
  • Autoduck - Unsupported Microsoft by Embedded Geek (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:58PM
  • Word? MS Word? by Jacek Poplawski (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:03PM
  • Structured Text by slasher69 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:05PM
  • Try AurigaDoc by mrdon_59 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:07PM
  • In praise of DocBook (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PhilRod (550010) on Thursday January 10 2002, @05:08PM (#2819778)
    Nobody seems to have mentioned the great advantages of DocBook here. Having written some bits of documentation for KDE, I've seen some of DocBook's advantages:
    • First off, it's fully compliant SGML or XML, whichever flavour you prefer. DocBook documents are stored as nice plain ASCII which can be processed with any SGML/XML tool you happen to have lying around.
    • Output options are virtually unlimited. IIRC, HTML, man, texinfo, plain text, (La)TeX and anything else you care to mention are available as output formats, with XSL providing a way to produce your own custom output.
    • The Crunch: Text is marked-up for what it is, not what it's meant to look like, so you needn't know a single thing about formatting while writing content and vice versa. You know the advantages of using CSS instead of hard-coding HTML. Well, they count for DocBook too.
    • Nifty features like creating tables of contents from the source and all that sort of thing that you thought only TeX could do.
    • I suppose I should mention that it's extensible, hence the XML version.
    --PhilRod
  • Framemaker is best. by deragon (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:12PM
  • SDF? by mOdQuArK! (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:22PM
    • Re:SDF? by Circuit Breaker (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:01PM
  • Writing documentation by blibbleblobble (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:23PM
  • DocBook by tylerdave (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:25PM
  • Apache Cocoon... (Score:3, Informative)

    by graveyhead (210996) <fletch@nosPAM.users.sourceforge.net> on Thursday January 10 2002, @05:28PM (#2819912)
    apache cocoon [apache.org] is an awesome publishing tool. I recently created a site that creates a web site and a series of PDF documents from the same source. Your input documents are as simple as you want them to be, because you define it yourself and transform it into HTML or XSL:FO via XSLT.
  • The obvious answer by thockin (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:28PM
  • Txt2Html by Lulu of the Lotus-Ea (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:32PM
  • The reason you hate writing documentation... by kindbud (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:33PM
  • quark & simpletext - no, really by spasm (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:36PM
  • I don't understand the question by rho (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:37PM
  • Word Alternative by JoeyPea (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:39PM
  • Javadoc by StillNeedMoreCoffee (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:45PM
  • Perl + Win32::OLE; by JojoLinkyBob (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @05:53PM
  • Use an Outliner (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lysander Luddite (64349) on Thursday January 10 2002, @05:53PM (#2820080)
    Use an outliner. There are several out there, the one that springs to my mind immediatley is Omni Outline (www.omnigroup.com).

    Using an outliner allows great hierarchical structure allowing you to edit quickly.

    A good outliner will also output to HTML/XML where you can apply a CSS file for both screen/print mediums. Mozilla, even IE 5+ will ensure your docs appear how you want. Heck, you can change the CSS file and not worry about the presentation at all. Just create a few CSS templates and off you go.

    I don't know why you'd make it harder than you have to.
  • FrameMaker is a Very Good Solution. by snogwozzle (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:06PM
  • Be a little wary of DocBook (Score:4, Interesting)

    by beej (82035) on Thursday January 10 2002, @06:09PM (#2820189) Homepage Journal
    I've done Beej's Guide to Network Programming [csuchico.edu] in DocBook (it used to be HTML). It works quite nicely for HTML output with NWalsh's stylesheets.

    What was hard was getting it set up, and getting help out of the DocBook people in the know. (They can be pretty unapproachable sometimes.)

    What was also hard was getting print output to work nicely. I was running fine for a while until I upgraded openjade, and then blammo--two-sided print output doesn't work anymore. Openjade simply refused to put the two-side directive in the TeX output, so I did it myself.

    And what is it about my document that causes openjade to take 3 minutes to pump out TeX output, when it does the HTML in about 5 seconds?

    Why is it that when I put two tables on the same page openjade/jadetex doesn't take that into account and keeps printing text off the bottom of the sheet?

    The other place I've looked is Xerces/Xalan/Fop at Apache [apache.org]. I like the Formatted Objects idea, and it seems pretty sound. Also, the whole thing was about 827 times easier to set up than the jade stuff. Unfortunately, the code is alpha and doesn't work very well, sometimes crashing during the render.

    "How does ORA do it, then?" I hear you asking. They have custom in-house tools for processing DocBook that have been in development for some time. Word on the street is that they might be releasing them soon.

    Conclusion: if you want print output, you might have trouble getting what you want with DocBook at this time. At least when I code TeX it does what I say. (I don't recomment plain TeX for documentation. Maybe LaTeX since it's easier to convert to HTML. And pdf(la)tex produces nice PDFs.)

  • LaTeX by rnturn (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:11PM
  • Re: PEBKAC - An Alternative by grapey (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:23PM
  • Can you use Adobe Acrobat Distiller? by Civil_Disobedient (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:43PM
  • TeXmacs: Why hasn't anyone else mentioned this? by Trilaka (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:45PM
  • Simple Document Format (SDF) by ijcd (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:48PM
  • It depends... by dzeuthen (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @06:53PM
  • LaTeX by conan_albrecht (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:33PM
  • In code documenting VB files by Octavian59 (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:39PM
  • If you liked AFT, try SDF by Lobsang (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @07:48PM
  • the irony... by RalfM (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @08:15PM
  • Open Office by -ryan (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @09:26PM
  • Miktex and Winedt by binney (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @10:22PM
  • One of the few who still uses troff by pauljlucas (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @10:40PM
  • Abiword by Dacmot (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @10:40PM
  • Texinfo by RUok (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @12:14AM
  • texinfo or docbook (Score:3, Informative)

    by ^chewie (65165) on Friday January 11 2002, @12:21AM (#2821743) Homepage
    info(1), IMHO is one of the best on-line document readers I've ever used. I liked it when I first was acquainted with gcc. Type in 'info libc' and you get a full libc reference book! With examples!

    Ever thought man pages were limited in that you couldn't automatically go to a referenced manpage? Use info, hit tab until you reach the reference, then hit enter. Walla!

    Yes, info has become my all-time favorite. Far beyond the limited HTML markup. Not convinced? I would like to bring to your attention a few posts already made concerning info(1) and the document format texinfo: 2818653 [slashdot.org] and 2819778 [slashdot.org]

    I've recently started the chore of changing an existing TeX document into texinfo format. I would have loved to use a converter or a formatter from TeX to texinfo, but alas, such a tool was not available. vim's search and replacement works pretty well. Regardless, since texinfo docs can create TeX, XML, and HTML documents, I believe it's the best of the docformat-to-docformat wars. Additionally, it's a pretty simple markup to use.

    Check out info2www [ericsson.se] by Roar Smith [mailto] for a simple way to push out your installed info docs.

    Here's the GNU Texinfo [gnu.org] documentation.

    The only other acceptable format, IMHO, would be docbook.

  • LaTeX by Toolsmith (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @12:33AM
  • What about FrameMaker? by heatseeka (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @01:39AM
  • Maybe AbiWord? by mrjb (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @04:10AM
  • ConTeXt - a TeX macro set which accepts XML by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @04:59AM
  • Lout? by trumpetplayer (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @05:02AM
  • xml documentation by anorakgirl (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @05:14AM
  • Docbook is what you need by badger.foo (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @05:30AM
  • LaTeX2HTML not a complete solution by ader (Score:2) Friday January 11 2002, @05:58AM
  • custom solutions by evbacher (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @10:15AM
  • Technical Documentation by RagingMaen (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @11:19AM
  • ASCII-based text by erc (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @03:23PM
  • Re: Writing Documentation by Tracian (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @04:30PM
  • Re: second time ... by Tracian (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @04:52PM
  • documentation by wordsmith_evoy (Score:1) Saturday January 12 2002, @09:50AM
  • What are your requirements? by era_nospam (Score:1) Friday January 18 2002, @10:54AM
  • Re:And after you're done? by RazzleFrog (Score:2) Thursday January 10 2002, @03:20PM
  • Re:And after you're done? by broody (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:33PM
  • Re:For my money, the best is Adobe Framemaker by Cosmicbandito (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:47PM
  • Re:For my money, the best is Adobe Framemaker by richmaine (Score:1) Thursday January 10 2002, @04:55PM
  • Re:Don't CVS Word docs? by Make (Score:1) Friday January 11 2002, @02:16AM
  • 55 replies beneath your current threshold.
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