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Early AJAX Office Applications
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Sep 29, 2005 03:49 AM
from the proof-of-concept dept.
from the proof-of-concept dept.
prostoalex writes "Perhaps many, who viewed Zimbra presentation from yesterday, thought about other office-related applications they would like to see moved to the Web. Richard McManus on ZDNet provides a list of the currently available AJAX apps. Did you know there was AJAX word processor, AJAX spreadsheet, AJAX calendar, AJAX presentation-building software, AJAX e-mail client, AJAX note-taking software and some other interesting applications, which, deployed on your local server, do not need installation and "just work" in a browser window?"
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Early AJAX Office Applications
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Yes but... (Score:4, Funny)
Meh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Meh - Is it such a silly idea? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. For rather obvious security reasons, XMLHttpRequest is limited to making requests to the host the script originated from. Also it would be way slower than a normal web browser. Plus completely inaccessible, which is illegal in many places.
That falls apart when the browser that isn't the "latest and most popular" doesn't support the technologies your AJAX browser uses.
Java applets (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Java applets (Score:5, Insightful)
Or the fact that applets are SLOW, whereas (for example) gmail and googlemaps are FAST.
Or maybe it's that java guis just plain suck in pretty much every aspect (look, feel, functionality, ergonomy).
Oh, and the fact that java is not installed on machines anymore (by default), whereas a browser is (even if maybe a louse one as IE6).
Dunno, choose one
Re:Java applets (Score:4, Insightful)
XMLHttpRequest security issues (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://babelfish.alt...%2F%2Fslashdot.jp%2F)
Security? XMLHttpRequest is very cool, but (albeit for reasons not the same as those you gave for Java), it's likely to fall off its pedestal very soon in the face of these security problems [devx.com].
In short, assuming you have the functionality turned on (I assume there is a way to turn it off in present browsers, though I haven't checked), XMLHttpRequest breaks the assumption that web pages only record what you're doing when you "submit" a request (don't think this applies to Flash, but it's normally obvious when a flash app is being used).
In short, it's theoretically possible for a site to be receiving information about pretty much every action you carry out within a browser window, and practically *quite* possible (and likely) for less than trustworthy sites to be receiving information you'd rather they didn't (if you knew about it); I could go further, but the article pretty much explains it well.
Re:XMLHttpRequest security issues (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a problem with Javascript in general, not a problem with AJAX per se. It's been possible to leak information in this manner since Netscape 2.0 - you just swap in an image with the URL http://www.example.com/image.gif?timestamp-mysensi tiveinformation [example.com].
Basically, if you don't want a website to know how you are interacting with a page on that website, you need to switch off Javascript altogether.
Re:XMLHttpRequest security issues (Score:5, Interesting)
If you've been assuming this isn't possible, or in use (the company I built it for still uses it, I believe), you're missing a point here.
More details in a back copy of TPJ, who I wrote it up for.
+Pete
Re:Java applets (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.iki.fi/asb/)
Actually, I do.
When Java applets were the next hot thing, I could not use any of them because they all assumed that I had a 8 point font. With my 16 point font, entering data to text fields was a pain in the ass. Now, I go to see the Ajax applications. Lo and behold! All of them assume that I use a tiny 8 point font.
I'll just move along. There seems to be nothing worth looking at here...
Re:Java applets (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Make sure that every desktop gets a new JVM which updates itself automatically.
2) Make sure that the java web start doesn't look ugly as ass and behaves weirdly.
3) Present the platform as an alternative to HTML development.
Web Applications (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, it's true that there will always be problems with compatibility in browsers,
but at the end of the day, to make the underlying OS insignificant, it makes the adoption of alternate OS's become easier.
Who knows, maybe the pressure will cause other proprietary companies to start looking at the way they
do business ? A pipe dream now
Re:Web Applications (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.incite-ict.com/)
It's quite ironic that all this talk of the OS becoming insignificant is just yet us piling another layer on top of our systems. Shouldn't more effort be focused on making a standard and open windowing system so that developers have one windowing GUI to think about when making their apps (instead of the current big three, namely MS Windows, X Windows and Mac OS X). Yes web apps address this, but in my opinion the way they are approaching the solution is completely backwards.
Fair enough these web apps allow you to access your program on the move, allowing you to only worry about whether the terminal you are sat at has a nice browser that supports JavaScript, but think about Exchange server when coupled with Outlook Web Access - we suddenly see that these rich AJAX apps are nothing new and are in fact a step in the wrong direction. We should be focused on bringing everything down a level - not piling everything inside a web browser.
Imagine an OS model where you have a server running at a nice secure location with all your applications running 24/7 then you have a standard windowing desktop client OS that connects to your server to bring up your apps and data where ever you are, be it at work, home or sat on a train on your PDA. I think having a windowing system that would allow this would be far more advantageous than using either remote desktop (VNC etc) or rich web apps (Java, AJAX etc).
Webservices gone mad (Score:4, Interesting)
That idea died a horrible death, despite Microsoft's best efforts to make the Network the Computer.
Now webservices are back, but instead of building miniature application control building blocks, the entire application interface is downloaded to your browser. Everything immediate runs client-side and anything that needs a backend is sent upstream to the server. No more trying to keep a network connection alive between the client PC and the network server. Everything can be kept very asynchronous.
It's no surprise that this is the way things are evolving. Even the first CGI programs foretold this type of usage pattern. You'd get an interface on the client side and the heavy processing would be done on the server. But now with faster connections and the ability to run more stuff on the client side, a lot of processing can be and has been pushed off the server and onto the client browser.
It's very interesting, and quite a pleasant break from the barrage of boring sysadmin-specific stories here.
Re:Webservices gone mad (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://jostein.kjonigsen.net/)
ASP.Net are an initiative of what? An awkward merging of two technologies so that ASP developers won't be frightened away?
Say again? I've done all sorts of programming from Motorola assembly to php and java, both professionaly and purely on a hobby-basis, so I consider my sellf a more than competent and experienced enough developer. I've also worked quite a bit with ASP.NET.
Sure ASP.NET may not be the right tool for every job, but then again what is? Making web-applications with ASP.NET feels like breeze compared to doing the same stuff in say php. The fact that it's event-based with a solid foundation making that the underlying protocols and technology transparent to developer, actually means that you can immidiately focus on the application logic, and doesn't have to worry about every god damn thing involving web-communication.
Sure, I know how that works, I know the low-level protocols, I can implement it if I have to, but the fact that I don't need to feels damn good. The .NET Framework supplies tons of goodies for those who know how to take advantage of it.
For instance, directly coupled database to webpage data-linking, including the ability to manipulate date with next to no programming. Please tell me how this can be done in less than 10 lines of code in php. As a developer, I'm really happy that I don't have to rewrite the same DB-logic, reference the same db-field names, link them to similary named html-controls, and vice-verce for updates. It makes my life simpler. What's wrong with that?
Dismissing ASP.NET as something that only unskilled developers would use is ignorant at best.
Re:Webservices gone mad (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.hwacha.net/)
Sure ASP.NET may not be the right tool for every job, but then again what is?
Duct tape!
Re:Webservices gone mad (Score:4, Funny)
(Last Journal: Sunday April 04 2004, @09:33PM)
Duct tape! [perl.org]
Re:Webservices gone mad (Score:4, Interesting)
I admit, I was enthusiastic about Java Swing applets at one point, but they really haven't evolved from the clunky things they were ten years ago. AJAX isn't just a stupid acronym. It's a truly workable system.
For a good IDE check out TIBCO General Interface [tibco.com] - it's not open source but it can give you a good idea of what is possible with this technology.
AJAX Cleaning power (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.igrill.co.uk/)
AJAX is a floor cleaning product.
I'm sorry to say this, but there are too many people who think something is cool because it uses the latest hip technology. Nobody cares that it is AJAX, they just care that it works well and does what they want.
The sooner OSS and other people writing software out there realise this the better.
Rant over
Re:AJAX Cleaning power (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.gridfire.com/)
Re:AJAX Cleaning power (Score:5, Funny)
(http://shockandblog.com/blog)
That's right. Quit wasting time naming things, and get to work, you layabouts! We don't need no stinking names for things. If I want to use that spreadsheet I'll just say, give me that, uhh, counting thing.
Re:AJAX Cleaning power (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.fokke.net/)
AJAX is a floor cleaning product.
Yes. And a Greek play [wikipedia.org], a Greek hero [wikipedia.org], an anti-aircraft missile [wikipedia.org] and a soccer club [wikipedia.org] from Amsterdam.
All the good words were used up long ago. Maybe it's time to stop using vowels and open up the possibility of words like krggggnx!
Re:AJAX Cleaning power (Score:4, Funny)
(http://babelfish.alt...%2F%2Fslashdot.jp%2F)
'Ajax' floor cleaner is sold under the name 'Krggggnx' in Klingon markets.
Well... (Score:4, Interesting)
Network failures. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd like this if they sold $20 dumb terminals to use it, but I paid a lot of money for a computer that can run applications locally without constantly going to the network.
And just in case they mentioned that that's not a concern in one of those 40 linked pages, no, I didn't read all the articles, so feel free to yell at me now.
Re:Network failures. (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ | Last Journal: Sunday February 05 2006, @01:51PM)
Most people - the overwhelming majority - are not competent to use a general purpose computer. They don't understand about basic things like security and backups. Consequently their machines are crawling with viruses and trojans, and when eventually they have a hardware problem they lose, in many cases, months or even years of work.
For these people, a thin client web appliance using applications hosted remotely on machines maintained by competent people makes a huge amount of sense. And, frankly, that's 90+% of the whole population, so this is potentially a very big market.
Todo Lists application in AJAX (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.julien-dubois.com)
You can check it out on SourceForge : http://tudu.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net].
And you can use the live site : http://tudu.ess.ch [tudu.ess.ch].
Everything's free and Open Source (GPL), so you can check out how it works.
One thing to note ... (Score:5, Informative)
Another open source AJaX E-Mail Client... (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.nextapp.com/platform/echo2/echo)
Consistent and Intuitive UI will be important (Score:5, Insightful)
Developers need to understand that once you're over 25 years old, you don't care to learn brand new interfaces all over again. The closer it looks to something familiar (your Windows/Mac OS UI), the better. For God's sake, if it doesn't look at Windows, at least make the metaphors intuitive.
My recent pet peeve is tiny little icons, just for the sake of tiny little icons. I'm familiar with the standard "Open", "Save", "Copy", "Cut", "Paste", and "Print" icons. That saves real estate over text, and saves me time.
However, With monitors getting bigger and bigger, unique icons will NO LONGER OFFER THE SAME BENEFIT. I'm not going to hover my mouse pointer over every single 8-pixel-by-8-pixel icon you have, just to forget it the next time around because you lined up 50 of them on the toolbar like lucky charms. If there's room for text, and if that saves time, put the text in!
Some good ideas.. (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.phpgd.com/)
But for word processing? Spreadsheets? That seems like a waste of bandwidth, and an unnecessary security risk. I've been working remotely for the last 2 years (300 miles from the company office). I've never encountered a situation where a remote service text editor would be preferable to a local app. Given my flaky internet connection that would really be a very bad thing. Whatsmore
please let it die (Score:3, Insightful)
Please note: accessibility means equal access for ALL, it is not a term to differentiate disabled internet users from their able-bodied peers.
So now we have we have to use libraries that work for IE and every other browser separately, we then have rewrite it all for people using accessibility aids that often use scraping techniques to get content from the page and wont update unless the page refreshes, so we have to write a legacy version anyway (of course, you can make the call that the chance of getting sued is low enough not to bother).
Before people say we have to write a ton of code to account for different browsers and accessibility combinations, I work supplying web apps to public sector education bodies and none of my applications require wild cul-de-sacs of code for special scenarios.
We have only just started mastering equal access for all in web applications as it is, the last thing we need is a new generation of web developers who think that "omg cool functionality kthx" > accessibility
AJAX, it's magic! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, if these were tools to allow multiple people to work on the same document simultaneously, but these all seem to share data only after it's been saved back to the server. As someone else pointed out, the presentation application doesn't even use AJAX!
Would people please stop using AJAX to mean "Really cool looking Javascript application"? If Javascript applications excite you, fine, you're welcome to them, but please get the terms right...
My prediction ... (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://tarrysingh.blogspot.com/)
Avalon Business Systems (Score:3, Interesting)
It's nice because it allows you to do real-time client (etc.) searches asynchronously which allows you to get a ton done with only one real page load.
I've seen some decent commercial and free AJAX implementations as well, but outside of Google and Avalon, they seem more focused on "cool" than "useful".
I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see office applications as being naturally web based applications, they seem to be very natural living on my desktop. I can't see why I would need to be connected to write a paper or do my budget.
On the innocent side it just seems like a misdirected project.
On the sinister side it seems similar to e-books....another way to take away something I have come to take for granted as possessing.
My word processor may be old, but it is mine.
I can just see the bull shit now.
"Oh, you don't own the AJAX office suite, you were only renting the use of it. Since your lease is up you cannot use it to view your old work... unless you want to pay us more money"
Paging the Web (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/~Doc%20Ruby/journal | Last Journal: Thursday March 31 2005, @01:48PM)
Wait a minute, hold on... (Score:3, Funny)
(http://jjjiii.livejournal.com/)
Wow. The future is... not here yet. (Score:3, Funny)
(Last Journal: Thursday July 12, @12:30PM)
Let's see: word processor--didn't feel like signing up for an account. Spreadsheet--works in Firefox 1.0/Mac, but not Safari 1.3. Overall, has a long way to go--can't use arrow keys to move the active box in the grid, for example. And I doubt it's possible to recreate a zillion other useful features from a binary spreadsheet app, like dragging a cell's corner to fill lower rows. Calendar--wouldn't load at all in FF or Safari. Presentation--it's not AJAX. Email client--ha! instead of linking to Gmail, one of two programs that POPULARIZED AJAX (the other being google maps), the link leads to a nonexistant product from Yahoo. The note thing works but is pretty simple--feels like a bright student's DHTML project.
Re:Fix KDE, Gel linux on jo-6-packs desktop (Score:3)
(http://nutsncents.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Friday August 08 2003, @07:47PM)
Im still finding thr Mac desktops lagging behind Windows IMHO (not starting a flamewar here) Finder cant seem to browse directories containing large numbers of files, Its Impossible to navigate the GUI mouseless unlike windows which can be ALt-Tab's, Shift-Tab'd etc. Really the most important part they need to fix is the system preferences
Hmm.... Definitely troll-ish, but not very reusable. 2/10.
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