![Communications Communications](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/communications_64.png)
![Businesses Businesses](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/business_64.png)
![Google Google](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/google_64.png)
![The Internet The Internet](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/internet_64.png)
Yahoo! Acquires Oddpost 250
weiyuent writes "We all know the arrival of Gmail has initiated a new round of competition amongst the major webmail providers. Well, Yahoo! has acquired Oddpost and will be integrating Oddpost's amazing interface to strengthen its offerings. One might wonder though how to reconcile Oddpost's MSIE requirement with Yahoo!'s (thus far) cross-platform approach. Oh well, at least it will likely put an end to Oddpost's exasperating attempt to be cute in their communication."
Client-side 2GB goodness (Score:3, Interesting)
POP3 is soooo 1990's.
Mozilla support is coming (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:4, Informative)
It's not necessarily the difficulty of making complex interfaces (dhtml...i.e. drag/drop). But realizing the return on time.
Spending 25 hours to let 8% (or less at times) at certain points in production just doesn't seem to be worth it.
However, kudos to those that do go the extra mile. I've been working on a project that had an IE only interface for about a year and a half. About 2 weeks ago we got it working in Mozilla/Firefox. Almost working in safari/konqueror. But honestly...the latter isn't worth our time at the moment.
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is more often working the other way. How many people made apps with things like XML data islands then found themselves deep in IE without a paddle?
Anyway, just another view from the trench.
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
Lesson Learned.
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Informative)
It is also fairly buggy in Safari (you have to reload the page a lot). But it is still in beta.. I'm assuming either Google will fix gmail, or Apple will fix safari.
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:5, Funny)
Yes...it can be hard to place blame when Microsoft isn't an option.
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Insightful)
Our code is tweaked for firefox/mozilla now also. But t
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to the real world where some projects don't have unlimited resources and time. And your target audience is comprised of about 90% IE users. In terms of $
Ideally everyone used firefox and then you don't have to worry about it.
This isn't some complex table/div layout. It's an attempt to bring true desktop functionality to a web browser.
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
Besides, what about people with disabilities (e.g. bad vision or even blindness)? Even if they used IE, they still might not be able to use your site if it isn't standards-compliant. (I mention this because the kind of people who make IE-only sites tend to al
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the driving factors for me was I got sick of opening IE to develop and use the site.
At the moment we're not very much targetting users with bad vision and blindness. The site itself is for photo sharing.
In time we want to have all the kinks ironed out such as certain accessibility issues. But we're focused on a soft launch targetting as
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
Personally, it drives me up the wall, but I don't really have any way to convince anyone to switch to something else, as we have invested heavily in customizing this application to our very specific needs. The data
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
Re:Mozilla support is coming (Score:2)
It uses horde [horde.org] for the message viewing, and the addressbook but the rest I wrote. ourbrisbane.com even agreed to release it back to horde as opensource, but no-one on the list even got back to me...
Re:Client-side 2GB goodness (Score:5, Informative)
Not cross platform (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:3, Informative)
The MS windows Media Player plugin demands active X support to work correctly, so Netscape 7 has code especially written to support this particular active X control.
I'm not sure if it's possible to build mozilla/firefox with the same hack.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
Launch.com on Linux (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
Yahoo used to pack all their games in CAB files just to piss off the rest of the Java community. (CAB files were NEVER part of the Java standard!!!) Yahoo got constant emails from people who couldn't play their games until they finally switched to ZIP/JAR files. Not sure, but some of their games may still use CABs.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
"Note: Bounce Out is not compatible with Unix or Macintosh computers." game page [yahoo.com]
Yes, possibly you can make them work, but when my wife is at her computer, and it won't work...she doesn't go looking into HOW she can make it work. She just comes over and uses my computer.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:3)
Sign up for a test oddpost account and try to open it with ANY non-IE browser. It doesn't work. For a webmail client that's a fairly big deal.
I don't mind TOO much that exchange isn't -insert-everything-here- complaint because I CAN hit its web interface from firefox in linux and get my work email and calendar. It's not as nice as using it in IE, but it does WORK. That's more than can be said about oddpost.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:3, Interesting)
I noticed that as well. I wonder _why_ MS choose not to make it standars compliant? All the crap they do with IE can be done in a cross-broser/platform manner, yet for some _strange_ reason MS choose to make it better in IE only. Does MS know how much IE sucks? Or do most MS employees think that IE is some how better then Mozilla/Firefox? Is there any human alive that thinks IE is better then Mozilla/Firefox? And please don't give me reasons because of market share.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
I've personally seen this happen on
Re:Not cross platform (Score:3, Interesting)
We are talking about the company that deliberately set out to make the MS Money experience *worse* by extending the amount of time it took to accomplish tasks. Why? So they could sell more banner ads (recent
Re:Not cross platform (Score:5, Informative)
This page [oddpost.com] seems to not scroll in Mozilla 1.5 even if all the content can't be shown in the browser window because of size. You know you're in trouble when they fuck up their main marketing page.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:5, Interesting)
Strange.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:5, Informative)
The source has the following interesting snippet: Notice the "disabling signup" comment for non-IE or Opera browsers.
I do not use Yahoo, but hope they change this silliness.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:4, Insightful)
Very strange (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm using Firefox 0.8 with the RadialContext extension. That's the pie menu replacement for the right-click context menu.
If I scroll down the page with the mouse-wheel and right click, the pie menu appears at the top of the page. I have to scroll all the way back up in order to use it. ie. The context menu placement is for some reason confusing window-relative placement with page-relative placement.
It's possible that this is a bug in RadialContext, although this page with its odd combination of presentation, scripting and style attributes is the first place where I've ever seen it happen.
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:2)
Re:Not cross platform (Score:3, Informative)
Yahoo is fine the way it is (Score:5, Insightful)
Google is good at what it does: searching and newsgroups with a few other potentially useful things.
Yahoo is good at what it does: news, yellow pages, maps, tv listings, movie listings, etc.
I use yahoo primarily for 'book' information, and google as a search engine.
Re:Yahoo is fine the way it is (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, the results seem to be great for the user. Yahoo has clearly just reinvested in its mail offering which has been static for quite a while up until the pressure of Google came. Now, will Yahoo make Google come up with an even better search than they have now?
what's the cost? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:what's the cost? (Score:2)
Hotmail (Score:4, Funny)
Oh by the way, if Google has gmail, MS introduce hmail, Apple gives you imail, Sun introduces jmail...
Re:Hotmail (Score:4, Informative)
Hotmail recently gave users 250MB of storage. If that's not directly related to Google starting Gmail, I don't know what is
Re:Hotmail (Score:2)
Now if only Hotmail:
- Had Spam filters as good as GMail
- Grouped messages into threads
- Allowed emails to be labeled into "psuedo-groups"
- Had a blazingly fast interface
- Keyboard Shortcuts
- Cross-platform DHTML everything
Re:Hotmail (Score:2)
Re:Hotmail (Score:2)
It used to support it.
Re:Hotmail (Score:3, Funny)
And Excite brings you "email" and skyrockets back into relevance!
Easy to remedy... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is easy to remedy: Microsoft acquires Yahoo!
MSFT could kill 3 birds with one stone - they could force all existing Yahoo! Mail users to use IE, they would gain a significant market share in the search engine market (against Google), and they'd get Oddpost as a bonus (not that Oddpost is terribly exciting).
Re:Easy to remedy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Easy to remedy... (Score:3, Informative)
Since they have no such requirement for Hotmail, it seems very unlikely that they would do that.
Maybe. MSN and Yahoo are about equal right now (link [searchenginewatch.com]), and given that there is overlap between those groups, I'd be willing to bet that the group of users that use both yahoo and MSN is rather larger than those who use yahoo and google.
Do not rule it out, MSFT is flat midterm now (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft clearly cannot develop the next generation of margin-growing services on its own, and I expect them to go on a buying spree soon. Shareholders are baying at the moon begging them to use their cash to get that stock moving
So that's what an amazing interface is? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So that's what an amazing interface is? (Score:2)
Yeah, they really should bash MS, even if they did something right.
Er... huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone want to take a stab at explaining to me why Oddpost is so amazing?
Re:Er... huh? (Score:2)
The service isn't as popular as it could be because they couldn't use their interface on a free webmail service... it was just too expensive to develop so they had to charge for it. However, it looks like Yahoo's come up
Re:Er... huh? (Score:2)
Yeah, I figured that part. I just don't find the interface to be particularly 'amazing'. I never liked Outlook, though, so to each his own.
That's right, they took the time to clone outlook using JavaScript and sever-side tools such that the user gets the look and feel of Outlook but can use it without need to install anything on any computer that has MSIE on it.
Are there really very many computers that have IE but don't have Outlook?
Re:Er... huh? (Score:2)
I'm curious.. what else did you come up with? I've got some users beginning to complain about SquirrelMail's clunky UI. Did you find anything free and easily put in place of SM?
Flamebait? (Score:2)
Re:Flamebait? (Score:2)
Re:Flamebait? (Score:2)
In all seriousness, doesn't the 'bait' in 'flamebait' indicate that it's intended to cause a lot of responses?
I guess you don't do much with DHTML (Score:2)
it's even harder to write it cross-platform, which is no doubt why Oddpost has always been IE-only. Can't blame them given IE's 95% market share.
Re:I guess you don't do much with DHTML (Score:2)
You've guessed wrong, but you mis-understand me.
From a technical standpoint, it's a fairly neat achievement.
From an interface standpoint (and the story mentions Oddpoint's amazing interface, mind), I don't find it amazing at all. It's strictly 'been there, done that' except this time on the web. Technically impressive, but 'meh' interface wise, in my opinion. Confusing those two issues (amazing interface vs amazing t
you're splitting hairs, and doing it poorly (Score:2)
You're misusing terms, and doing it poorly ;) (Score:2)
Amazing job of replicating a standard interface in an unlikely environment? Yes.
Amazing interface? No.
Re:you're splitting hairs, and doing it poorly (Score:2)
but you're definitely wrong...I saw "INCREDIBLE interface" and I groaned because I want the best, and I've just completed the arduous task of migrating to gmail. I opened the oddwhatever link and saw a 3 pane interface...and sighed in relief. It's not an incredible interface, however technically advanced it may be.
I think it's like saying William Hung is an incredible singer, when what you mean is that the amount of fame is incredibl
Re:Er... huh? (Score:4, Funny)
Because this Slashdot story is actually an advertisement in disguise. Shhhh!
Re:For sure. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:For sure. (Score:2, Interesting)
Very true - or the Picasa [picasa.com] folks who just got bought by google!
We're working on some stuff. Soon, very soon, you'll hear of it. ;)
Re:For sure. (Score:2)
Soon, very soon, you'll hear of it. ;)
So that's like tomorrow, right?
Oddpost Features (Score:5, Interesting)
1) not a lick of advertising - Not any more
2) accessible via POP & IMAP - Not any more
3) send & receive large attachments - Not any more
4) staggeringly effective spam filtering - Not any more
5) Insert your favourite feature here - Not any more
Re:Oddpost Features (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Oddpost Features (Score:2)
1) not a lick of advertising - Not any more
2) accessible via POP & IMAP - Not any more
3) send & receive large attachments - Not any more
4) staggeringly effective spam filtering - Not any more
Oddpost was a pay service. #1, #2 and #3 were available from Yahoo's premium (pay) service. #4 is available for free. I fail to see, at least with the features you named, how Oddpost will be any lesser of a service under Yahoo! ownership.
Re:Oddpost Features (Score:2)
And in case other people want to write yahoo (Score:5, Interesting)
http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/my/cgi_feedback
Yahoo does listen to suggestions, it just takes many iterations and time.
Photo management is another one (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Photo management is another one (Score:4, Informative)
Any existing Oddpost subscribers have a special bonus:
Until then, all Oddpost subscriptions will be extended, free of charge. After the migration, you'll get an additional free year of premium Yahoo! Mail service including two gigs of storage, SpamGuard Plus, advanced virus protection and lots of other goodies.
Thats from the OddPost announcement [oddpost.com]to subscribers page.
I think thats quite a sweetener. gMail certainly has rocked the boat, and competition is good.
Well... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hardly surprising that Yahoo have done something like this really... after all, the "quick and easy" way of trying to compete with GMail when you have that much money, is obviously to just find something similar and buy it ;P
I do wonder about the suggestion that Yahoo is in any way cross-platform though. Especially considering the recent protocol change (reported on Slashdot) to lock out third party messenger clients like Trillian and Gaim. They are yet another proprietary company, so they'll design their system to run as *they* like, and if you don't want to adhere to it, tough.
In saying that though, Oddpost has only *just* been acquired, and it says on their page that they are only starting to develop the merge between their service and Yahoo! Mail, so there is more than ample opportunity to ensure all browser compatibility before the main roll out. Whether they do or not remains to be seen, but I would hope they would take the recent announcements about the insecurity of IE, and the recent 1% loss in market share into account, and ensure that their service will be more universally accessible than it's current incarnation.
FYI....1 gig of storage (Score:2)
Which is great, I can now go weeks at a time before emptying out the email account I use for google groups( the networking people at my job don't even know what usenet is, let alone how to set up a usenet server ).
Steve
Re:FYI....1 gig of storage (Score:4, Informative)
Re:FYI....1 gig of storage (Score:2)
More competition is better for everyone (Score:4)
If Yahoo begins to offer a richer client experience for email users, then it won't be long before many more people start wanting to use both sites with a variety of browsers, and soon both IE and Mozilla (this is
Re:More competition is better for everyone (Score:2)
I like the gmail interace, it is the first email interface I can see myself using extensivly and without too much of a fuzz or the fact that it would feel like a Webmail Interface.
Where Gmail's is slick the one on Oddpost just... Well, looks odd to me, like a cross between Outlook and some old browser.
OWA in Exchange 2003 is pretty cool (when you use IE), but from the all out web interfaces Gmail right now wins for me.
SBC Yahoo! DSL (Score:2, Insightful)
I happen to live in very small location where Cox Cable Internet Service is not available and my only options are Adelphia *shudder* and SBC. SBC just happens to use Yahoo! for all of their email accounts.
Until now Linux has never been supported with the service per se, but it has always worked well even though they officially use a proprietary PPPoE connection. I just signed up for
Oddpost is not just an Outlook clone (Score:2, Informative)
More competition and UI thinking is a GOOD thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oddpost Creators Mentality... (Score:3, Interesting)
Why doesn't oddpost work with anything other than Internet Explorer?
I don't get it. I can see how it's annoying if you can't use something you've heard is cool. But it's not evil. I'm all for cross-platformness, but I also don't see the harm if someone wants to take advantage of some kick-ass functionality that exists in IE5W and no where else
What was the cause of that service problem?
IE no longer rapidly leaks memIE no longer rapidly leaks memory when sending message after message after message. Or at least leaks much less.ory when sending message after message after message. Or at least leaks much less.
And that other service problem?
Yesterday we resolved the MyDoom-related problems with account login and outgoing mail
And that other service problem?
After many long hours of toil, we've modified our systems to deal with the surge in email traffic caused by the MyDoom virus.
Say again?
Yikes, looks like we spoke too soon. We're still dealing with an onslaught of mail from the MyDoom virus. We'll continue to post updates here.
How your IIS servers doing?
Oddpost's performance degraded steadily over the month of November. This was primarily due to a memory leak on our IIS? servers
MS loving twats...
Making it cross-platform (Score:4, Informative)
In other words, porting it is not simply a matter of porting to a different dialect of javascript, CSS, and the DOM.
Therefore, Mozilla/Firefox, should have an extension and plugin that provides the same functionality required by Oddpost. Afterall, Mozilla users have already gone through the trouble of installing a foreign browser, so installing some good extensions is no big deal. Since Yahoo is very widely used, these nonstandard extensions would be very widely applicable.
The required functionality could probably be done using a java applet running invisibly in the browser whose sole purpose is to communicate with the mail servers. But this requires launching the java VM which is heavy. That's why a lightweight extension that mimics the needed IE 5+ functionality might be preferable.
Re:Making it cross-platform (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you're projecting here. Mozilla / Firefox supports the same XMLHttpRequest functionality that IE does for avoiding full refreshes. There isn't anything really unique to what Oddpost is doing that couldn't be replicated for Moz/IE.
Poor architectural decisions like this were some of the rejection points when Oddpost tried to sell itself to the company I work for a while back. I guess Yahoo is less discriminating.
Re:Making it cross-platform (Score:2)
Re:Making it cross-platform (Score:2, Informative)
All the other stuff(drag and drop, right click menu, auto complete) is DOM/dhtml stuff that all
Yahoo aquires Slashdot (Score:2)
M@
the javascript/dhtml interface debate (Score:2, Interesting)
Begun again, These Browser Wars (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember a few years ago how the (cross-platform) web browser was going to make the Windows desktop obsolete? We all know how that turned out, Microsoft leveraged its "advantage" in the desktop world to the browser market. But I think MS made a critical mistake in freezing development of IE and waiting for Avalon. We are starting to see some real slick web-based apps that are as useful as local applications. I've seen people here complaining that Oddpost is just a ripoff of Outlook, of course it is, but that's missing the point. What's important is that you can now get a desktop-like experience in the browser that wasn't possible a couple of years ago.
amazing interface? (Score:2, Interesting)
Or Outlook 97. Yahoo's interface is a little cartoonish and could use some help with color contrasts (it's tougher to read on certain crappy LCD monitors), but I still prefer it to what screenshots I've seen from Oddpost.
Difference: Yahoo Mail Works (Score:2)
Re:Difference: Yahoo Mail Works (Score:5, Funny)
Because "Breaking News: Beta Software Has Occasional Reliability Issues" is more a subject for Duh Magazine than for
Re:doesn't that beat all (Score:2)
And once Yahoo actually incorporates Oddpost's features (and the new Yahoo service gets reviewed), you can think about paying again.