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Slashback: Circumvention, AOLandfill, Scoffing

Posted by timothy on Thu Nov 21, 2002 06:59 PM
from the happy-birthday-fkp dept.
Slashback tonight with more on efforts to stop the flow of AOL CDs from their house to yours, getting modded XBoxes on Microsoft's network, a less optimistic look at NVIDIA's latest chip, and more. Read on for more. Update: 11/22 00:13 GMT by T : Thanks to the AC who noticed the goofed headline ("this is only a test," remember), now amended.

Excuse me, is this the service entrance? We just posted about Microsoft blocking gamers with mod-chipped X-boxes from the Microsoft-run online gaming service; now NiteStar writes "Xbox-Scene.com just reported that a group of Xbox hackers named Team Assembly managed to change the serial number and MAC address of the xbox. After the change they managed to get onto Xbox Live (with mod-chip disabled) with a previously banned xbox ..."

Not so fast, mister. The Raindog writes "Since NVIDIA announced its GeForce FX graphics chip, the web has been flooded with a slew of previews and articles that do little more than regurgitate what must have been NVIDIA's official press kit. Slashdot had coverage a few days ago, but since then, a new take on NVIDIA's latest chip has surfaced without all the PR-inspired hype. As it turns out, the GeForce FX's features aren't all that remarkable next to ATI's Radeon 9700 Pro, which has been available for months now."

I liked the old .sig about a black hole that would blot out the sun. Matthew Davis writes "CNN.com ran a story about Jim McKenna and John Lieberman back in October requesting everyone to send the CD mailers they receive to them. When they reach 1 million CDs they'll hand deliver them to AOL. In a recent article by SiliconValley.com they quote Nicholas Graham, a spokesman for AOL stating, "If they reach their goal ... I'd be happy to give them directions and greet them at the door ... We would make a contribution ourselves to put them over the top" Does that mean they're putting Jim and John's address on the top of the CD mailing list?"

Now if only these were CD-RWs ... and they can keep sending me the nice, reusable cases, just no more paper sleeves, thanks.

Still teasing, Stephen. foolish_child writes "Not sure if you noticed, but in the newest paperback pressing of Cryptonomicon (1 November 2002, I think) there is a chapter from Quicksilver at the back. I spotted it in the railway station in Amsterdam, so maybe it's a European edition. I have been checking to see if it was also online but have seen no sign of it - hence the heads up. I'm sure someone will scan it in soon - it is SUPERB! (read it waiting for a train) - Enoch the Red, emissary of the Royal Society, landing in 1700's Boston looking for . . someone. Scary thing is how good his research is as usual - I've just been reading up on Leibnitz and Newton and Co. and . . . you've probably seen it already but I wanted to share :)"

This new edition of Cryptonomicon is probably in a bookstore near you already, and the book proper is (only) several months away.

One small step for BanKind. An anonymous reader writes "It seems CapitalOne's website works with Mozilla, as of this November, 2002. This is good news because many people have CapitalOne credit cards, and previously the site required Microsoft's Intarweb Explorer. This just shows how simply speaking up by e-mailing large companies can evoke change. For more info see here ." Update: 12/03 22:00 GMT by T : Note that this information renders moot the question posed here about Cap One.

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  • SLASHBACK (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:02PM (#4727642)
    shouldn't that be slashBACK?

    from the stupid-nitpics department

  • i was wondering how long that would take.... by edrugtrader (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:02PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • No kidding! by Inoshiro (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:03PM
    • Re:No kidding! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zeebs (577100) <.rsdrew. .at. .gmail.com.> on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:08PM (#4727710)
      From the slashdor summary:
      managed to change the serial number and MAC address of the xbox. After the change they managed to get onto Xbox Live
      (with mod-chip disabled) with a previously banned xbox ..."[bold my own]

      If the mod-chip is disabled how could they cheat? So is it moral? I think so.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:No kidding! by spectecjr (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:51PM
      • Re:No kidding! by EnglishTim (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @03:09AM
        • Re:No kidding! by sedawkgrep (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @11:11AM
          • Re:No kidding! by EnglishTim (Score:2) Thursday November 28 2002, @05:05AM
      • Re:No kidding! by weeeee (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:13PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:No kidding! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Moonshadow (84117) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:08PM (#4727716) Homepage
      Cheating against others is never moral, but I have a feeling that Microsoft isn't doing this so much to protect their users as they are to try to stick it to those who dared mess with their product. They put a lot of effort into making the XBox fairly hard to hack, and now that it's been done, I don't find it suprising that they're banning them.

      Is it immoral to play online with an XBox that you've modded so that you can run homebrew software, or install Linux? I would hope not. Modding does not necessarily equal cheating.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:No kidding! by gvonk (Score:3) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:23PM
        • Re:No kidding! by Moonshadow (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:34PM
          • Re:No kidding! by Babbster (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:58PM
            • Re:No kidding! by xenode (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @01:13AM
              • Re:No kidding! by Babbster (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @03:01AM
              • Re:No kidding! by Rick the Red (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @03:27PM
        • Re:No kidding! by bogado (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @05:41AM
    • Re:No kidding! by CableModemSniper (Score:3) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:10PM
    • Re:No kidding! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Indras (515472) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:11PM (#4727731)
      I think you're missing a part of your quote, the one that says: (with mod-chip disabled)

      So, they can't exactly be cheating and screwing people over, if the only way they can get on xbox live is with the modchip DISABLED.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:No kidding! by qbwiz (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:11PM
    • Re:No kidding! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by EllF (205050) <ellF@ellFPLANCK.net minus physicist> on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:13PM (#4727749) Homepage

      Ino,

      Are all modchips necessarily used for cheating? From what I understand, the most spiffy thing about modding an XBox is that you can run Linux on such a system. If that's you reason for having such a system, how are you screwing over your fellow players?

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:No kidding! by ceejayoz (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:57PM
        • Re:No kidding! by Wise Dragon (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:36PM
      • Re:No kidding! by Rew190 (Score:3) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:55PM
    • Are there cheats (yet)? by pigeon768 (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:31PM
    • Re:No kidding! by m1a1 (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:42PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by plierhead (570797) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:03PM (#4727661) Journal
    Look out for MS's righteous rage when the forged MAC addresses start colliding with existing, non-hacker users and it disrupts the Live service they've paid for! Can anyone say "bolt the door, the wolf's outside" ?
  • Breaking the licensing agreement (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:05PM (#4727679)
    You get a EULA that says that you can't access the online gaming forum with a modified X-Box. Then you go and circumvent that by putting a new serial number and MAC address on it, possibly depriving someone else down the line with the identical numbers of playing online.

    You broke the licensing agreement in the first place by modding the box. Why do you think it's right to break it further by circumventing the agreed-upon penalty?
  • It's unanimous (Score:5, Funny)

    by ekrout (139379) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:07PM (#4727697) Journal
    Everyone [savyon.com] hates [mit.edu] AOL CDs [kanorb.co.uk].

    Even dogs [nomoreaolcds.com].
  • Don't say you werent warned by dnoyeb (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:07PM
  • Further proof: by talks_to_birds (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:08PM
  • Why return CDs to AOL (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MeerCat (5914) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:08PM (#4727713) Homepage
    The usual point of a petition is to demonstrate to people the mass rejection the public are showing their idea. Returning a million AOL CDs doesn't, IMHO, do this; it just tells AOL that their brand awareness campaign is working (and I dare say AOL know how many they have made).

    If you want it stopped, hit them where it hurts - put a return-to-sender sticker on them, make AOL pay for the postage, or handle them one-by-one, or see if you can use that German law about making retailers pay the cost of removing and disposing of excess packaging... I'm not a genius (I used to be, but I'm told I'm not any more) but surely we can come up with something more persuasive than a one-off dump of a large single load of CDs.
  • At last by bryhhh (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:09PM
    • Re:At last by slasher guy (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @09:10AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • RE: Cryptonomicron by usmcpanzer (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:09PM
  • Changing serial numbers and macs... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AtariDatacenter (31657) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:11PM (#4727735) Homepage
    So they said they changed their serial number *and* MAC address to get back on. This is interesting and points back to something someone said in a previous thread. All you need to do is to make a program to burn through serial number space and get them marked invalid, and you've got a DoS of entertaining proportions.
  • Actual use for AOL CD's (Score:5, Funny)

    by coryboehne (244614) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:11PM (#4727737) Homepage
    The other evening (without an internet connection) I was trying to install the .Net framework (dotnetfx.exe) on my laptop and since I had installed windows 98 the version of Internet Explorer was 5.00.x but due to the dependencies of the .Net framework I needed to have 5.01 or later.

    As an aside, when you don't have 5.01 or later it just kills the browser that you do have installed, so it kinda causes a really fun catch-22, no browser to surf the web to find a new browser..... Really sucked.

    Anyway, back with my story.... I was on a frantic search for a copy of IE 5.01 or later when I remembered that I had a stockpile of those AOL Cd's in the garage... I grabbed myself one of them (yellow, no idea what version) and proceeded to find the IE directory on the disc.. Sure enough it was version 5.01.x so I installed it and everything went smoothly from there.

    So, the moral of the story? Sometimes AOL disks do have a use other than coasters or frisbees....
  • AOL CD's are awsome... (Score:5, Funny)

    by BSOD from above (625268) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:12PM (#4727743) Homepage
    when you cook them in the microwave for 15 seconds. Just don't try this with anything you care about.
  • xbox serial number (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FeatherBoa (469218) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:14PM (#4727761)
    Team Assembly managed to change the serial number and MAC address of the xbox. After the change they managed to get onto Xbox Live (with mod-chip disabled) with a previously banned xbox

    Not only that, you can arrange for any arbitrary XBox to be permanently banned!
    I wonder if there's a way to pollute their blacklist with so many bogus entries that they have to give up.
  • So NVIDIA is not kicking ATIs butt... by dnoyeb (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:15PM
  • AOL CD's by obiedxss (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:17PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • AOLandfill Halloween Costume (Score:5, Funny)

    by Aexia (517457) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:18PM (#4727790)
    The Saturday night before Halloween I had a costume party to go to. I remembered this Saturday morning. Or rather, Saturday afternoon since that's when I actually woke up. I had no costume.

    But I did have a bunch of crap CDs, some of which were AOL CDs. So I taped them together and went as AOLandfill. Had about strips of 6-7 down each a leg, a sort of vest and a couple on my forearms. Truth be told, it did look like some low-rent Power Ranger battle armour or something, but once I said the name, people thought it was funny.

    I also got to use pickup lines like
    Try me free for 1000 hours for your first month!
    I'm so easy to use it's no wonder I'm number one!

    The terrifying part of the costume may have been how well those lines worked.
  • Sending Back 1 Million AOL CD's.....Uhhhh by SiliconJesus101 (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:21PM
  • AOL CDs in the Post Office by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:23PM
  • AOL cd's how many do you have by headbulb (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:26PM
  • Capitalone has worked with Moz. for a long time. by dameron (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:29PM
  • Nvidia not news ?!?! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Archfeld (6757) <archfeld@hotmail.com> on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:29PM (#4727889) Homepage Journal
    Yeah, the same features implemented under ATI are documented but guess what...They will WORK for Nvidia, and they DON'T NOW for ATI.....

    ATI support is about the worst I've ever had the misfortune to need to deal with. The actually make M$ support look forthcoming and really eager to please. 4 rev's of ATI's so called catalyst drivers and things are actually sort of stable, but a slew of games won't run under the 9700pro, for example M$ CFS3 does not recognize the driver set up. If you are thinking about buying a video card I suggest as someone who has a Radeon 9700pro and a nvidia 460, I'd get a cheap GF3 or 4200 and wait and see the NV30. Unless you have money to just burn, ATI has dissapointed again, and they've not corrected any of this All in One Wonder driver issues either....
  • capital one (Score:5, Interesting)

    "It seems CapitalOne's website works with Mozilla, as of this November, 2002. This is good news because many people have CapitalOne credit cards, and previously the site required Microsoft's Intarweb Explorer. This just shows how simply speaking up by e-mailing large companies can evoke change."

    Excellent. Now keep speaking up and make sure they know that you are pleased to be able to continue giving them your business because they respect your personal choices.

    My bank in canada always had a Mozilla friendly site and I made sure I sent them a nice e-mail thanking them ,describing exactly why I prefer to use their services as opposed to my previous bank.

    Positive feedback is just as important as negative feedback!

    • Re:Other Sites by officeboy (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:36PM
      • Re:Other Sites by baglunch (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @10:47PM
        • Re:Other Sites by officeboy (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @11:59PM
  • Neal Stephenson needs to get laid by TheHumbone (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:50PM
  • Confused.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by wilburdg (178573) on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:51PM (#4728040)
    Weird. A link in the story description to a reply to that same story...

    Hmmm... But... but.... *head explodes*

    Slashdot: Successfully colapsing the known universe since...
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • What I'd rather see... by Bytal (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:52PM
  • xbox - roll your own network? by feepcreature (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:52PM
  • Quicksilver by 56 (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:56PM
  • by WasterDave (20047) <davep&zedkep,com> on Thursday November 21 2002, @07:57PM (#4728074)
    Going back to the bad old days while the Geforce FX was a bunch of unsubtantiated rumours, I remember the furore around the theory that the FX would only have a 128 bit memory interface.

    Theory goes that by having a 128 bit interface the cards themselves are cheaper to produce. The fact that all bar one of the Radeon 9700 pro cards are using the ATI reference design is surely a testament to how much of a bitch it is to produce a 256 bit memory interface in the real world. But then they go and stick that f*cking vacuum cleaner thing on top. Are you expecting me to believe that a copper heat sink, heat pipes, and a rediculous vacuum cleaner thing is cheap to produce?

    Nah, it's panic innit. NV30 is nowhere near as fast as it should have been and they're having to overclock it's tits off to get any reasonable headway over the R300.

    Personally I blame specification overkill. Given that we won't be seeing DX9/GL2 based games for at least two years, what's the point of having 64k instruction long pipelines? Maybe nVidia are eyeing up the professional rendering market but... well... I dunno. It just seems a little over the top. The "ti200" version might be worth it, but then so is a Radeon 9700 (ordinary, not pro) and you can have that now.

    Dave
  • Stop the madness by Bruha (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:08PM
  • xbox - a ban may be harder to avoid by feepcreature (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:11PM
  • Toyota.ca vs. Mozilla success! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by swordgeek (112599) on Thursday November 21 2002, @08:15PM (#4728181) Journal
    When we were looking at buying a new car a few months ago, toyota.ca told me that my browser was too old, and I should use IE5 or 'better.' I wrote to 'em and complained, pointing out that people who shop carefully online for cars are likely to shop carefully for browsers as well. :-)

    A month later, there was a page up saying they were redesigning for Mozilla/Netscape7/Opera compliance.

    Today Mozilla works flawlessly, on their remarkably well designed site.

    Score one for the good guys! And I'm off to make sure Toyota knows I appreciate their effort.
  • ATI vs. NVIDIA (Score:4, Interesting)

    by scotay (195240) on Thursday November 21 2002, @08:17PM (#4728185)
    I'm a happy owner of a 9700 pro. I'm sure future buyers will be happy with the NV30.

    Despite all the puffery of the PR, they only claim about 40% increase over the 9700. 46 measly frames in Doom III with all the goods!!! Neither of these cards will run the Doom demo well! Hardly worthy of the claim creating a "new era of cinematic graphics". ATI started the new era, and NVIDIA is now matching ATI's offering with a slight increase in performance. Good job to both camps. We will all enjoy the benefits.

    Future NVIDIA purchasers will have ATI to thank for the NV30's clockspeed and required hoover for cooling. There is little doubt that if it were not for the 9700 NV30 would be delivered later or clocked lower. I think ATI really surprised NVIDIA. We shall see who has the next surprise.

    I think the big lie is that cinematic effects only begin with their deeper 2.0+ shaders. If you look at the DX9 demos from ATI [hardforum.com], you can see the stock 2.0 pixel and vertex shaders offer plenty of opportunity for cinematic effects.

    The hoopla helps deflects attention away from NV30's lower bandwidth and poorer clockspeed-t/performace ratio compared to the 9700. I suspect the deeper shaders will not perform well for gaming and will only be used in near-real-time applications.

    Both will be decent cards that adequately handle requirements (DX9) that may only start to matter for mainstream games by the time we're debating NV40 vs. R400.
  • Typos Are More Important Than Facts? by John Hasler (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:18PM
  • Whoa, spooky by deepstephen (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:24PM
  • Can we say Anandtech? by L0rdJedi (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:27PM
  • The whole "web standards" debate is stupid by Skapare (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:34PM
    • Re:The whole "web standards" debate is stupid by GuruJ (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:25PM
    • by ChaosDiscord (4913) on Thursday November 21 2002, @10:59PM (#4729294) Homepage Journal
      So while the site looks fine with CSS, without CSS you get maybe stark gray...

      Very few web sits voluntarily chose a grey background. In fact, that glorious grey is the browser's default background color. If fact, if you visit webstandards.org [webstandards.org] without CSS support, you're getting the colors, fonts, and layout you asked for. Don't like it, take a trip to Edit > Preferences > Appearance > Colors. Click the button for "Background" and change it to something you like. See, control in your hands.

      So what's actually going on here is not a case of these developers adhering to web standards, but rather, they are picking and choosing the standards they want to use, such as by not making use of HTML completely and correctly.

      Actually, they're making use of the latest version of HTML completely and correctly. Using the various color tags and techniques from previous versions would in fact be violating the correct use of HTML. When you break standards you end up having to do dozens of special cases for the quirks of each browser. If you stick to baseline modern HTML with CSS, all modern browsers will display the same thing looking good, older browsers will degrade gracefully.

      You argue that by not supporting out of date HTML you're somehow discriminating against people with older computers. That's a bizarre claim. By using out of date HTML, you're making it harder for anyone to use it. Modern HTML makes it easier to render a web page in lynx [browser.org], or on your WebTV, or on a braille display, or be read aloud by a text to speech program. CSS makes it easier to keep your HTML small, speeding up the browsing experience for people with lower quality phone lines or working over an expensive wireless link. Modern HTML degrades gracefully. The old hackery HTML turns into a mess when forced to degrade. The webstandards.org page you complain about may not look pretty, but it's sure as hell usable. It'll work fine under lynx and a text to speech reader will easily and accurate speak the page for a blind person. As someone who occasionally must fall back on extremely low end systems and extremely slow connections, I appreciate how well webstandards.org degrade and curse how poorly most "old HTML" sites do.

      Zeldmanistas...intentionally set it to something different than what is set in CSS. ... So while the site looks fine with CSS, without CSS you get ... black with black text over it.

      Actually, anyone playing this sort of game is most certainly not a believer in Web Standards. Setting the background color at all in HTML (instead of CSS) is not invalid by the standard. No, those people are just assholes.

      [ Parent ]
  • by Y-Crate (540566) on Thursday November 21 2002, @09:06PM (#4728540)
    They decided to mod their Xbox, now they are upset that breaking the EULA makes their box incompatible with Xbox Live.

    BooHoo.

    If I were to somehow get OS X running on an AMD chip and iTools no longer worked, the last thing I would do would be to cry to Apple.

    Xbox Live is a little oasis of online gaming where cheating, drastic connection differences and hardware differences are currently nonexistant. It is EXACTLY what legit Counterstrike players have been begging for since the late '90s. Now, a bunch of assholes out to get around their own inability to deal with the consequences their actions have bestowed upon them, are out to ruin it for everyone else.

    XBL is something we've all wanted for years. Now, we can likely expect to see legit users permabanned from XBL because some 1337 hAx0r cannot possibly deal with the fact he can only get ahead in online Xbox games by using ......SKILL!!!!!

    So he uses their serial/MAC.

    Others do the same.

    They also cheat.

    XBL is ruined.

    I know a lot of people think it is cool to fuck over Microsoft at every oppertunity and feel that they should give up on the banning, but if this were anyone else, there would be a lot more outrage than there is now. Something good is on the verge of being destroyed. Too bad no one wants to own up to their own hypocrisy.
  • No download link for Mozilla.org in the FAQ by BroadbandBradley (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:08PM
  • MAC address validity? by xlsior (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:09PM
  • GeForceFX preview mistakes by scotay (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:45PM
  • Xbox MAC address spoofing by Rainier Wolfecastle (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:47PM
  • AOL CD-RW by selan (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @09:53PM
  • RE: Xbox live hacking by MaverickUW (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @10:37PM
  • AOL CD tangent (Score:3, Funny)

    by Pretzalzz (577309) on Thursday November 21 2002, @10:37PM (#4729168)
    I just heard on Car Talk that they decided to send 3.1 yogurt lids to AOL. Essentially, they were going to run a promotional campaign for some cause by printing a message on yogurt lids. The problem was that they put NPR on the lids(since they air on NPR) without clearing it with NPR. When NPR found out they said that the lids couldn't be distributed because NPR didn't want to be seen associated with a commercial product. So Click and Clack were stuck with 3.1 million lids that they didn't have anything to with. They had a contest to come up with the best use for them and the winning entry was "Send them to AOL and see how they feel".
  • Pnc Bank by jchawk (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @11:00PM
  • NV30's fan from hell by Animats (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @11:01PM
  • Re: One small step for BanKind. by Brent_DS (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @11:58PM
  • AOLandfill by rice_burners_suck (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @12:38AM
  • CDs by cosyne (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @02:35AM
  • By engagment by SubtleNuance (Score:2) Friday November 22 2002, @08:57AM
  • Why? by strombrg (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @12:46PM
    • Better Yet... by kcb93x (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @03:31PM
  • AOL: Oblig. Simpsons/Futurama Reference by OvertlyPedantic (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @02:25PM
  • Last Post! by alpg (Score:1) Thursday December 05 2002, @12:04PM
  • Re:what about the innocent? by Moonshadow (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:11PM
  • Re:what about the innocent? by Sheetrock (Score:2) Thursday November 21 2002, @07:11PM
  • Re:Happy birthday who? by aster_ken (Score:1) Thursday November 21 2002, @08:30PM
  • Re:Happy Shithead! :) 3 by Brent_DS (Score:1) Friday November 22 2002, @12:01AM
  • 17 replies beneath your current threshold.