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Enigma-like Device Patent Granted - 67 Years Later

Posted by Hemos on Mon Aug 07, 2000 03:31 PM
from the pretty-cool dept.
Thanks to Bruce Schneier [?] of Counterpane fame for sending in this tidbit. The US Patent Office has granted William Friedman a patent for an Engima-like device - the catch is that he filed in 1933. Still it's a cool vintage piece of crypto - and I also noticed that a gallery copy of Bruce's new book is on eBay. 'Course, you could wait just a few weeks and buy a new one, but hey - if you gotta have it now, you gotta have it.
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(1) | 2
  • by efuseekay (138418) on Monday August 07 2000, @11:08AM (#872816) Homepage
    Well, at least it's a patent, which means that while you are not allowed to use it, you can always poke at it and figure out how to Crack it.

    Besides, who wants to use a code that has lost a war and then some? :)

    So no conspiracy theories here.

    The interesting bit is the 67 years delay. Maybe it's not Enigma they are worried about, it's how they cracked it that's holding it up.

  • Re:BZZT! (Score:3)

    by Ralph Wiggam (22354) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:47AM (#872817) Homepage
    The question that bring up is, why did it take 67 years to declassify information about Enigma? This stuff has not been critical to the security of the nation for two generations. Wasn't one of the original machines up for auction on ebay this year? I'm all for keeping secrets in order to protect our country, and I'm all for erring on the side of caution when it comes to those secrets, but this seems rediculous. Does anyone know of a particular aspect of the technology that would require it to be classified until now?

    -B
  • Re:Patents, Patents, Patents by Alomex (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:48AM
  • Re:Why so late? (off-topic) by DrMaurer (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:09AM
  • Re:yet again... by idistrust (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:10AM
  • This aint nothing by Eharley (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:11AM
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 07 2000, @11:16AM (#872822)
    Okay, let's say that the NSA wants a device to solve problem 'A'. They would assign one of their engineers to it, but they're way too busy breaking RC5 (not with Team Slashdot, either...) or listening in on some random New Zealand phone call via Echelon. So they contract it out company 'B'-- completely unclassified.

    Now company 'B' goes out and develops the device, and in the process winds up violating the patents held by companies 'C', 'D', and 'E'. These companies come to company 'B', screaming about patent infringement and lawsuits that will leave future generations in debt. What happens?

    The NSA states that the patents issued are not valid in this case, because the NSA has prior art-- company 'B' is therefore using NSA technology, not civilian technology. When companies 'C', 'D', and 'E' ask for proof, the response is pretty standard: "Sorry, but that's classified information." Companies 'C', 'D', and 'E' are SOL.

    Company 'B' makes a killing selling thousands of units to the NSA, and later markets a *very* similar product to the general public. Except this time, they're paying royalties to 'C', 'D', and 'E'.

    Guess who never really has to license patented technologies?
  • g0t 2007? by pohl (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:34AM
  • Re:Why so late? (off-topic) by AndyChrist (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @02:24PM
  • Re:Language changes change with it (OT, On Thread) by Aphexian (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @02:35PM
  • The government is not a business by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:38AM
  • No suprise really by ArchieBunker (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:08PM
  • Re:But the NSA didn't exist in 1933!!!! by cybercuzco (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @03:11PM
  • by rjh (40933) <rjh@NoSpAm.sixdemonbag.org> on Monday August 07 2000, @12:10PM (#872829)
    Alfred J. Menezes, Handbook of Applied Cryptography.

    Schneier, Bruce. Applied Cryptography, Second Edition.

    Kissinger, Henry. Collected writings. If you want to know crypto, you also need to know the political climate which created crypto; and when it comes to Cold War history, nobody tells it like Kissinger.

    The ICSA Guide to Cryptography. Very light, but it's good for a beginner's introduction.

    Kahn, David. The Codebreakers.

    Bamford, James. The Puzzle Palace.

    Gaily, Jean-Loup. The Data Compression Handbook (? on the name; it's been a while).

    Knudson, Jonathan. Java Cryptography.

    Elliote, Rusty (?). Java I/O.

    Halsall, Fred. Can't think of the name for the life of me, but it's a monstrously big book about network communications. Very good stuff, even if it only has one chapter on communications security.
  • Re:Not everything is a conspiracy by cybercuzco (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @03:14PM
  • And now, by Nanookanano (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @03:25PM
  • Haha by ArchieBunker (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:11PM
  • Re:67 Years from now? by Cybie (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @03:56PM
  • Build one? by Nautilus (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @08:21AM
  • Re:But the NSA didn't exist in 1933!!!! by MrFancyPants (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:13PM
  • Re:Some information and thoughts by Signail11 (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @08:29AM
  • Foster by ArchieBunker (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:13PM
  • Re:Why so late? (Score:5)

    by freebe (174010) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:48AM (#872838) Homepage
    The USPTO uses an advanced inventory system, different from both FIFO (first-in, first-out) and LIFO (last-in, first-out). The new system is called FISH, and is rumoured to stand for First-In, Still-Here...
  • Re:BZZT! by freebe (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:50AM
  • Re:National "Security?" by Ralph Wiggam (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:50AM
  • Re:National "Security?" by Anonymous Karma (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:51AM
  • And the point of that was? by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @01:50PM
  • My guess to the lateness of the patent is the NSA thought encryption should be controlled solely by them, and so they just wrapped the thing up in red tape and left it. Why wait 'til 2000 to let it be patented though? Why not 10-20 years ago when computers were clearly far superior in encryption methods?

    Ummm... Question?

    How could the NSA have suppressed a patent or, for that matter, be assigned a patent, on something that was filed a good 18 years before the NSA was founded?!?


    --

    Greetings New User! Be sure to replace this text with a

  • Re:BZZT! by nosilA (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:53AM
  • Re:This aint nothing by Steev227 (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:18AM
  • Re:67 Years from now? by AstroJetson (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:54AM
  • Re:Patents, Patents, Patents by webword (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:40AM
  • Maybe I'll buy the book... by Phroggy (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:41AM
  • by Signail11 (123143) on Monday August 07 2000, @11:24AM (#872849)
    You can read the patent for yourself at http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06097812_ _&s_all=1 complete with cross-references. In my opinion, the reason that best explains why the patent has just been issued now is that back in 1933 when Friedman filed for the patent, the information was immediately classified for a set period of time as a matter of course. The FOIA and related executive orders have mandated automatic declassification after 50 years unless it can be demonstrated that disclosure would have a directly detrimental effected on national security. Oddly enough, cryptoanalytical and cryptographic secrets are *explicitly exempt* from this automatic declassification system. Moreover, it's probably quite likely that de/reclassification efforts rank rather low among the NSA priorities. It's entirely possible that they simply never got around to it until now.

    Now for the more speculative reason. The academic/civilian cryptographic research community has never successfully developed a general method for cryptanlysing rotor machines; basically, the limits of what we know how to break is the Enigma with knowledge of the rotor wirings and the SIGABA/ECM systems with knowledge of their rotor wirings. True, there have been vague descriptions of the cryptanalysis of Purple, but the key steps (ie. reconstruction of wirings, and far more importantly, determination of the general structure of the machine without obtaining it) have never been declassified. Rotor machines were very commonplace until about the early sixties; moreover, their descendants, shift register based stream ciphers were probably in use to this day. It's pretty safe to say that there are entire categories of cryptanalytic and cipher design techniques that we are ignorant about.

    The sci.crypt newsgroup has a long thread about the patent which can be read, among other places, at http://www.remarq.com/read/cryptsci/q_RGaGOxKZQUC- -Jw#LR.
  • This invention isn't and wasn't useful anyway by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:41AM
  • Uh oh by John Jorsett (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:43AM
  • Re:BZZT! by ucblockhead (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:25AM
  • Re:yet again... by ackthpt (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:45AM
  • Issued once it has been declassified by Matt_Bennett (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:46AM
  • Re:National "Security?" by AJWM (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:15PM
  • Language changes change with it by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:47AM
  • Re:But the NSA didn't exist in 1933!!!! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:16PM
  • Enigma by ackthpt (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:33AM
  • Don't mess with Friedman by Jonathan (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @05:38PM
  • PGP by marquis carabas (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:33AM
  • by Sloppy (14984) on Monday August 07 2000, @12:26PM (#872861) Homepage Journal

    You just know that in 1961 some guy who was cleaning out his desk, due to retiring, saw this application which had slipped behind the drawer, and said, "Oh dear." He guiltily looked around, and then stuffed it back into the desk.

    Then 20 years later a successor found it, and though, "Oh shit. Well, if anyone find out that we just sat on this patent for 48 years, we're going to look bad. I think I'll put this off." He kept putting it off, wishing it didn't exist, and the longer he waited, the worse it would look when the word finally got out.

    His successor played the same procrastination game.

    That person finally had a heart attack and died this year. The person who inherited his unfinished work was about to "accidently" lose it too, but NSA threatened to release his web browser history to the public, so he gave in and approved it.


    ---
  • Re:ROT-13 by b1t r0t (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @07:11PM
  • yet again... by epodrevol (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:33AM
  • patent by purefizz (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:36AM
  • Re:yet again... by ackthpt (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:36AM
  • Re:Language changes change with it (OT, On Thread) by seebs (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @07:42PM
  • Minor nit... by lar3ry (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:34AM
  • Too bad... by $lacker (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:36AM
  • Why so late? (Score:3)

    by cybercuzco (100904) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:36AM (#872869) Homepage Journal
    This begs the question: what took them so long? I know government is slow, but this is rediculous. I think the key to the answer is that the patent is granted to the united states "represented by the national security agency". I wonder what the NSA has in the pipes for patents nowadays, if the even do that still. Another question, why go to all the trouble of patenting something like this anyways, its not like theres a huge market for enigma or anything.

  • 67 Years from now? by CoreDump (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:37AM
  • Re:This invention isn't and wasn't useful anyway by Detritus (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @01:52PM
  • by webword (82711) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:37AM (#872872) Homepage
    A law firm (Oppedahl & Larson LLP) owns patents.com [patents.com]. There is actually some good stuff there. And of course, there is always Freepatents.org [freepatents.org], IBM's Gallery of Obscure Patents [ibm.com], and O'Reilly's list of Controversial Patents [oreillynet.com].
  • Even better... (Score:3)

    by MostlyHarmless (75501) <.artdent. .at. .freeshell.org.> on Monday August 07 2000, @10:37AM (#872873)
    That's not all. In fact, rumor has it that they may be patenting the bicycle as well sometime around 2013.[*]

    [*] And then they will promptly sue all bicycle owners and bicycle manufacturers for infringement.
    --
  • Not everything is a conspiracy by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @01:55PM
  • Is this patent an attempt to impose some control? by The Breeze (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:54AM
  • BZZT! (Score:5)

    by freebe (174010) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:37AM (#872876) Homepage
    First of all, they granted the NSA the patent, not this guy. If you look at the "applicant" field you'll see that it says "The United States as represented by the NSA". Secondly, that explains why it took 67 years - the information in it was classified(!) and it took 67 years for it to be declassified to the point where the patent could be granted. Gotta hand it to the NSA.
  • Re:No suprise really by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @01:57PM
  • War Effort.... by VivianC (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:55AM
  • Re:National "Security?" by quonsar (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @01:58PM
  • Re:But the NSA didn't exist in 1933!!!! by freebe (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:55AM
  • by Detritus (11846) on Monday August 07 2000, @01:59PM (#872881) Homepage
    I wonder how patent lawyers would have fared against the German army.

    Why don't we give it a try? :-)

  • ROT-13 (Score:3)

    by Segfault 11 (201269) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:56AM (#872882) Homepage
    Enigma machine? SSL? Bah. Just you wait until my patents for ROT-13 encryption clears the U.S. patent board. Nobody will be able to tell a dirty joke on USENET without paying me a royalty, and I plan to wring it out of them, just like Unisys.

    Ol ernqvat guvf, lbh unir vasevatrq ba zl cngrag.
  • what about crypt(1) ... ? by zorgon (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:56AM
  • Re:g0t 2007? by DaKrushr (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @02:04PM
  • Re:Why so late? by Greyfox (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:56AM
  • by The_Messenger (110966) on Monday August 07 2000, @10:57AM (#872886) Homepage Journal
    ...should check out his very excellent book Applied Cryptography [amazon.com], which is a great introduction, reference, and all-around good read for coders who would like to know more about cryptography in general and how to implement common algorithms. It's got the history, theory, protocols -- really a nice thing to have. And unlike many of these type of books, it is perfectly approachable to those of us who are programming wizards but never really cared for mathematics.

    IIRC the book's examples are in C. A decent companion text is Java Cryptography [amazon.com] (O'Reilly), which while light on theory, is a fairly good tutorial in use of the java.security package's crytographic classes. Unfortunately the book is rather shallow (read the reviews on Amazon for elaboration) and also rather dated; do not expect to find coverage of JCE 1.2 [sun.com] (Java Cryptography Extension) or other recent (year < 1.0) releases.

    I'd love to hear others' favorite cryptology-related books.

    ---------///----------
    All generalizations are false.

  • Re:yet again... by xinit (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:59AM
  • Re:My new patent (Score:4)

    by evanbd (210358) on Monday August 07 2000, @11:25AM (#872888)
    I have a decryption algorithm. It seems to fail at exact decryption, but seems to get the general gist across.

    313373 5cr1pt k1ddi3 -> Can someone help me with this install script?

    g0t 2007 -> still working on this one. As best I can tell, it's gibberish.

    m3 hax0r 0x900d -> Red Hat works! wow! and I have root access! this kicks ass!

    ---

  • Re:BZZT! by Stephen (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:59AM
  • Re:Minor nit... (Score:3)

    by Bloody Pulp (101306) on Monday August 07 2000, @11:00AM (#872890) Journal
    You are correct. The ebay [ebay.com] site has "galley" not "gallery". The term is galley copy or galley proof. Check dictionary.com [dictionary.com] for the term galley proof [dictionary.com].

    galley proof
    n. Printing

    A proof taken from composed type before page composition to allow for the detection and correction of errors.

  • Re:My new patent by freebe (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:27AM
  • Double BZZT! by Beede (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:28AM
  • Re:But the NSA didn't exist in 1933!!!! by ucblockhead (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:30AM
  • by andyturk (92537) on Monday August 07 2000, @11:50AM (#872894)

    IANAL, but I thought patent law was there to encourage innovation. Commercial companies patent something that took you a long time to develop and then get a chance to recoup your investment.

    The gov't patenting something seems like an abuse of the system. We don't really want the gov't to be in the business of licensing patents do we?

    Arrgh! It's bad enough that the PTO has control over which brain-dead ideas get a 17-year window of protection, but giving "them" the ability to lock down ideas is just too scary.

    Can you imagine what the world would be like if the U.S. Gov't had the one-click shopping patent instead of Amazon?!

  • Re:But the NSA didn't exist in 1933!!!! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:30AM
  • Well enigma isn't the best old school cipher by sips (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:51AM
  • Re:my favorite patent: by calags (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:31AM
  • Now... by vectus (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @09:36PM
  • Re:ROT-13 by po_boy (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:52AM
  • Re:Don't mess with Friedman by ptbrown (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @09:37PM
  • Re:Some information and thoughts by The Roach (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @09:42PM
  • Re:Why so late? (off-topic) by aardvarkjoe (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:41PM
  • Re:Language changes change with it by Ella the Cat (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @09:58PM
  • Re:This invention isn't and wasn't useful anyway by kampo (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:41PM
  • Re:Don't mess with Friedman by Jetifi (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @02:03AM
  • by Colin Simmonds (4017) on Monday August 07 2000, @12:54PM (#872906) Journal

    According to The Codebreakers by David Kahn, this must be one of several cryptographic-related inventions Friedman made. In 1956, Congress gave Friedman $100,000 in compensation for the profits lost because several of his inventions were classified. On page 391, Kahn says:

    Involved were nine inventions made from 1933 to 1944, two with Rowlett's aid, though the bill was not limited to them. Two were so secret that no patent applications had ever been filed. Four are held in secrecy in the Patent Office: three of these pertained to the Converter M-134-C, a rotor machine, and one to the Converter M-228. Three have been issued as patents: a strip form of the Jefferson cylinder; the Converter M-325, another rotor machine; and a facsimile enciphering system.

    I presume that this is the first of the four patents held in the Patent Office, which implies that three more will appear over the next few years. This is one of the rotor machines, but I'm not sure which of them it is. I'm really curious about the inventions so secret that they never had a patent application for them.

    Near as I can tell from a quick glance through the book, in 1933 Friedman would have been working for a cryptographic section of the U.S. Army Signal Corps, to which I suppose the NSA is today's successor.

  • Re:NSA = No Such Agency by xianzombie (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @02:39AM
  • Re:Why so late? by Phil Gregory (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:56PM
  • Re:Enigma by ackthpt (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:59PM
  • If only we had known about this earlier... by donny (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @12:59PM
  • And the next thing ya know... by joshv (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:40AM
  • The original joke by Ralph Wiggam (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:41AM
  • Re:Patents, Patents, Patents by FattMattP (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @01:01PM
  • My paranoid rant (Score:3)

    by gunner800 (142959) on Monday August 07 2000, @01:06PM (#872914) Homepage
    Please note that I have no real-world knowledge of the NSA or governmental classified info practices, and my opinions should be weighed with that in mind.

    I studied crypto at college last year and saw diagrams, algorithm analysis, and even photos of the Enigma machines. This information is not secret, or even hard to come by, and it hasn't been for a long time.

    And yet this patent was only recently made public because of "classified" info.

    This just illustrates that our own government intentionally restricts information and misleads us. FOIA my ass.


    My mom is not a Karma whore!

  • Futurama by rw2 (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @10:43AM
  • Re:BZZT! by gilroy (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:01AM
  • Re:BZZT! by Tyrannosaurus (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:43AM
  • About galley copies by tgeller (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:03AM
  • Re:ROT-13 by freebe (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:04AM
  • Re:Why so late? by gilroy (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:05AM
  • My new patent (Score:4)

    by slickwillie (34689) on Monday August 07 2000, @11:06AM (#872921)
    I just received a patent on my encryption engine. It translates plain English into undecipherable Hacklish. For example,

    elite script kiddie -> 313373 5cr1pt k1ddi3
    got milk? -> g0t 2007?
    I'm a uber hacker -> m3 hax0r 0x900d

    I'm currently working on the decryption algorithm, anyone wanna help?
  • Re:yet again... by haystor (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:07AM
  • Re:Why is the government patenting *ANYTHING*?? by baka_boy (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @02:07PM
  • Re:Why so late? by ackthpt (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @11:57AM
  • Re:ROT-13 by BrianW (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @11:57AM
  • Re:Some information and thoughts by Signail11 (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @04:17AM
  • Re:Those of you who don't know Bruce... by harmonica (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @02:23PM
  • Re:Wow! by hand11 (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @05:52AM
  • Re:Those of you who don't know Bruce... by The_Messenger (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @06:23AM
  • Re:NSA = No Such Agency by slickwillie (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @01:15PM
  • Re:Some information and thoughts by DaveHowe (Score:2) Tuesday August 08 2000, @07:15AM
  • The Spork. by BleemZ (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @12:08PM
  • Bureacracy by rgmoore (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @01:15PM
  • Re:BZZT! by mavenguy (Score:2) Monday August 07 2000, @01:19PM
  • Re:Patents, Patents, Patents by jovlinger (Score:1) Tuesday August 08 2000, @07:21AM
  • Re:Why so late? by seebs (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:45AM
  • Re:Enigma by ackthpt (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:46AM
  • Re:Why so late? by MrFancyPants (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:47AM
  • Re:National "Security?" by stubob (Score:1) Monday August 07 2000, @10:47AM
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