Phoenix BIOS Software Available for Crusoe

Titten writes "Computerworld reports that Phoenix BIOS software is available for Crusoe. Phoenix worked in secret with Transmeta for more than two years to prepare its PhoenixBIOS software for use with Transmeta's chips. Here's a release from Phoenix. I guess we'll be seeing computers with the Crusoe chip sometime soon now!"

Re:Why the need for a special BIOS...

The instruction set is x86, yes.
The chip is not pin compatable, and requires it's own unique blend of support chips, I would imagine (as any processor does).

The function of BIOS is like a mini HAL(Hardware Abstraction Layer)to deal with firing up the motherboard components in the right order, setting interrupts, and providing boot code to the CPU. This process is different for every brand of motherboard, and every chip out there. BIOS presents a standard interface to the OS itself.

Yes, the code morphing software loads before the BIOS. IT has to.. the BIOS is written in x86. But then the BIOS has to take care of the rest of the motherboard.

What's bugging me about this Transmeta stuff..

Is it just me or does anybody think that Transmeta is using Linux+Linus as a way to sell their chips?

I mean think about it, for a start-up chip company, /. already has its own ICON for news regarding it -- odd there aren't special icons for say intel or cyrix ?

Call this Trolling, or Flamebait or whatever, but it seems that if Linus put his 'Thumbs Up' in a box filled with shit, /. and the rest of the rabid Linux users will think its caviar.

Yadda yadda yadda, no I'm not pro-MS, and I have nothing against the crusoe cpu, just think at how easily you folks are manipulated.

Phoenix BIOS and Crusoe don't mix

The Transmeta Crusoe processor is supposed to run at much lower power consumption levels than normal CPUs. As a result, the heat generated by one of these processors is significantly lower than its competition. To use the Phoenix BIOS defeats this significant advantage.

I've been to Phoenix, in July mind you, and I can safely say that Phoenix is way too hot to allow adequate operating temperatures for the Transmeta Crusoe processor.

Sorry guys, I think you need to choose your business partners with a lot more forethought.
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OMG.......

Linus has "bitched" about how stupid most bioses are in regards to Linux and how things get done. What do you think are the chances that we'll see a bios that is almost perfect??? Can you imagine.. the Kernel drivers re-written so that bios work-arounds are removed... the speed increases would be cool!

but then... why hasn't someone written an open source bios?

Re:Ugh, Phoenix...

To say that the BIOS is worthless is to imply fundamental problems in the code that makes up the Basic Input Output System. I think that you are probably talking about the BIOS setup program - the interface that most users see after pressing (pick one: F1, F2, DEL) during POST. It allows you to set the various options and parameters that the BIOS will use.

After working as an OEM hardware tech for numerous years, I'd have to say that what goes in the BIOS setup program is up to the OEM. I have seen prototyped motherboards with really nifty options in the BIOS setup program, only to see those options stripped out for the production boards. Consumers are too stupid to understand all those options, you see, and they might mess things up, so the "unnecessary" options are all stripped out.

What I like about this transmeta stuff

So far, the processing power race has only had one thing in mind: more mips from a single processor, nothing else matters, not size, not heat, well, maybe cost matters, but *not that much*. I've always thought that the way forward is to maximize processing through per transistor, and that's exactly where Transmeta is going. This directly affects me in two ways: first, my laptop, which is a bleeding wound as far as battery life is concerned. Second: my desktop 2 years from now. I want it to be 16-way or better, yet I don't want to be able to fry eggs on it, and I don't want it to have enough fans to achieve liftoff. Or a refrigerator. The only way to get there is with more energy-efficient processors. Fewer transistors == less heat, other things being equal. Did I say I hate fans? I hate fans.

One thing about Linus being involved in Transmeta is it suggests the tantalizing possiblity that the code morphing software may ultimately wind up being open-sourced. I couldn't think of anyone who could make a more powerful argument for it. Plus, I'd love to be able to program a machine like this directly in its "microcode" (a relative term as far as crusoe is concerned). Again, with LInus in there, I'd see it as a distinct possibility. Did you ever hear of anyone programming the PPro in microcode? It's possible, but nobody does it because Intel keeps that info locked up tighter than a... well, darn tight. Transmeta might not be so anal about it.

Re:Sort of odd...

Yes, Transmeta has been very secretive. There is nothing wrong with that. The extreme level of secrecy actually ended up being a brilliant PR move. The difference between "closed door CPU design" and "dirty closed source software" is that anyone with a compiler and source code can roll thier own software. If everyone on Slashdot got copies of the Crusoe design, then every one of us with access to a .18 micron fab facility could make our own processors and maybe contribute to the design process.

Sarcasm aside, CPU development and software development are completely different. The "open source" model of distributed collaboration just does not work with CPUs.

We also have to remember that people (like them or not) spent upwards of $100M over 4 years, with zero return on investments, to make this new CPU happen. They are entitled to make some money off of a very risky undertaking. They were envisioning 700 MHz mobile CPUs when Intel was selling top of the line 120 MHz chips for workstations.

You shouldn't be paranoid about "another Intel". You should hope they become another Intel. How nice would it be to have Intel, AMD, and Transmeta become the "Big Three" of CPU design and have them push each other to produce better, faster, and cheaper CPUs.

-B

Re:What's bugging me about this Transmeta stuff..

Actually, at the time Transmeta hired Linus this "Linux" thing hadn't been recognized by most markets as significant, so at the time how much it might affect marketing was not obvious. Transmeta obviously saw some possibilities and was willing to invest somewhat in Linux. Linus obviously chose a place where he'd be able to do interesting things while continuing to develop Linux. Linus probably charged somewhat more for his services due to his Linux leadership, and Transmeta was obviously willing to pay a satisfactory amount.

Transmeta certainly wasn't making itself obvious during recent years, other than perhaps maintaining a scent of mystery. Their employment of certain people attracted some attention. But the attention we've been seeing up to now has been outsiders trying to look behind the curtain.

They certainly could have emitted occasional press releases which mentioned Linus or Linux if they wanted to use him in public. Well, they could if their contract with Linus doesn't forbid it...we don't know.

Phoenixnet

This may be in there but there doesn't seem to be too many details on what it really does (besides be your ISP and give you a pretty start up screen). Any idea what else it does?
It does seem to connect to the internet before you boot. Why don't they just throw in a web browser, e-mail, news group reader, irc, and AIM? Now THAT would be an Internet-BIOS!

The glass is now half full.

I can't believe how many people are naysaying the future of Transmeta and its processors. Just because OEMs weren't present at the press conference on the 19th and there aren't an 700mhz Crusoe laptops on the shelves doesn't mean Transmeta is about to exit stage left. It's been what, about a week now? Yes, we're all impatient for them to really roll this stuff out, but give it a little time. It's very unrealistic to write off a company after only ten days of inactivity when it has friends like IBM, S3, and a good bios company like Phoenix.

Hey! They let a secret away!

"The Crusoe processor family consists of two solutions, the TM5400 and the TM5400"

See! From the Phonex press-release, now everyone knows that Transmeta only has ONE processor!!! The big secret is out!

No! We need a real Firmware!

BIOS sucks. We need a real command line firmware that knows what things like SCSI disks and ethernet cards are!

On any Sun, SGI, Apple Mac, you can bring up a command line in firmware at boot time and truly control the boot process.

On my Sun, I can boot off of any partition on any disk. I can also *really* boot from CD-ROMs (not cheesy El Torito CD's that work by emulating a piece of crap floppy disk).

All I have to do is type "boot cdrom" to boot from CD, "boot net" to boot off of a network boot/install server. I can even create aliases so that I can say "boot linux" to boot off of a Linux partition - even if it's on my sixth SCSI disk in the chain.

I don't need to waste time/money installing stupid tools like System Commander to get the same functionality.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Sun's OpenBoot/OpenFirmware provides many mini-miracles.

SGI (which uses their own firmware) actually built Pentium III computers using a real firmware. And by doing that they were able to defeat the stupid 1024 cylinder limit and other bogus limitations of Wintel PeeCee's.

And in Other News

Phoenix recently recieved a terse E-Mail from Intel, the complete body of which read "Phoenix, you bitch, have you been seeing another hardware company on the side?"

Re:No! We need a real Firmware!

Hell yeah.. my sentaments excatly. If Crusoe is going to be such a good processor, why would they take a step back and use BIOS?

Probably so you can boot a standard copy of Windows with no rigamarole. Makes life easier and cheaper for companies who want to bang out cheap laptops with as little new engineering as possible.

This is good for people who want to run Linux because Linux currently depends on cheap, standardized hardware built for Windows.

I'll be happy...

Provided I don't have to look at a stupid advertisement [slashdot.org] for transmeta instead of the bios post screen.

And no, it's really a slashdot link. :)


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