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The Almighty Buck Entertainment Games

When Gaming Trains You For Work 105

Posted by CmdrTaco from the my-sims-prepare-me-to-rule-the-world dept.
ac514 writes "Parents should review their education before punishing their children. BBC wrote 'Video game skills and a good poker face online are becoming essential job qualifications in the financial markets, with recruitment drives assessing potential star traders in online gaming exams'. I knew some day these extra hours would pay off."
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When Gaming Trains You For Work More

When Gaming Trains You For Work

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  • Hey... (Score:5, Funny)

    by krymsin01 ( 700838 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:47AM (#10485852) Homepage Journal
    It worked for the Last Starfighter.

    • Re:Hey... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TAGmclaren ( 820485 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:56AM (#10485902)
      seriously though, there have been benefits identified for kids playing games:

      Report 1; warninig pdf [homeoffice.gov.uk]

      Schwartz (1988). He set out to compare customary teacher-based tutoring of reading and comprehension with practice on a set of computer games derived from analysis of the reading process. 24 primary school children were selected, who were of average intelligence and who were 18 months or more behind their peers in reading comprehension. The children were split into two groups and assigned to teacher-based tutoring or to a computer game training group where they received practice on four computer games. Training in both conditions focused on word decoding and phonics. The study found that almost all students improved their reading comprehension test scores after training, although the poorest readers made significantly greater gains in the computer game condition than in the teacher training condition

      study 2 - warning pdf [futureofchildren.org]:

      "Marble Madness" and effects on spatial skills: A study of 61 children, ages 10 to 11, compared the effects of two computer games on the development of spatial skills--the cluster of skills required for children to visualize and manipulate objects or images in their minds.1 Practice on Marble Madness was found to reliably improve the children's spatial performance, while practice on Conjecture, a computerized word game similar to the TV show Wheel of Fortune, did not. The children playing Marble Madness used a joystick to guide a marble along a three-dimensional grid, trying to keep the marble on the path and prevent it from falling off or being attacked by intruders. After playing the game, children were found to have improved their ability to anticipate targets and visualize spatial paths. ?"Concentration" and effects on iconic skill: A cross-cultural study carried out in Rome and Los Angeles examined the effects of playing a computer game on the development of iconic skills--the skills that enable people to read images such as pictures and diagrams.2Researchers found that after playing the game Concentration on a computer, undergraduate students offered more diagrams in their analysis of an animated simulation of electronic circuits, whereas those who played the game on a board offered more verbal descriptions. ?"Robot Battle," "Robotron," and effects on visual attention skills: A study compared the effects of computer game expertise on college students' visual attention skills, the skills required to keeping track of several different things at the same time--not unlike a pilot keeping track of a row of several engine dials simultaneously.3 Researchers measured participants' response time to two events at two locations on a computer screen, where one target icon appeared more often than another. Predictably, participants who were expert players of Robot Battle (scoring above 200,000) had faster response times than participants who were novice players (scoring below 20,000). But after five hours of playing the game Robotron, all participants responded significantly faster to the target at the low probability position on the screen, demonstrating a causal relationship between playing a computer game and improving strategies for keeping track of events at multiple locations.

      So there's more than just getting a job - there's actually advancing mental development.

    • Re:Hey... (Score:3, Funny)

      by ScrewMaster ( 602015 )
      On the other hand ... he was the last Starfighter.
    • And Ender.

  • Poker (Score:2, Funny)

    by Qacker ( 658930 )
    Its easy as hell to keep a poker face online. Why do you need to train for that?

    • Re:Poker (Score:5, Insightful)

      by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:56AM (#10485900)
      The online pokerface they are talking about is the skill to act cool and not let your emotions run away in your actions. In a way is is actually harder when you do not "see" the other players.
    • Its easy as hell to keep a poker face online. Why do you need to train for that?

      Exactly. And isn't all the high volume tiny price difference trading done by programs anyway? I guess they need twitchy gamerz to sit and watch block trades automatically happen or something...

      • Actually having seen quite many "expert" systems doing their thing in several fields (not stock trading though), I would say that the automated systems are likely much better than idiots/newbies at the thing, but any person who is actually good at the thing is much better than any machine. (it seems that programming intuition is "quite hard")

    • bad use of words (Score:5, Informative)

      by nodwick ( 716348 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @12:38PM (#10486394)
      Its easy as hell to keep a poker face online. Why do you need to train for that?
      I thought the same thing when I first read the summary. It seems like a poor choice of words, since obviously you don't have to worry about giving away information through your facial tics or whatever online.

      The points they were probably trying to make come up later in the article:

      "It's the discipline of not getting too emotional about your transactions, and also the mathematical ability to keep track of numbers, as in card counting," said Ms McDonnell.

      "It helps to determine if people are bluffing, trying to make the market move one way or another," she said.

      "Poker-playing managers will be used to asking, 'did I play that right?'"

      Those three skills are probably the most important ones that would cross over. The last point is particularly often overlooked, since in poker (much like in the stock market) making the "right decision" doesn't always mean you win every time, because of the influence of random chance. Your opponent can play horribly and catch the one card left in the deck that gives him the win, but his strategy was still a losing one even though he "won" this particular time. Hence, unlike people without this background, poker players are already trained not to be results-oriented, but to be strategy-oriented (focusing on "given the information I had, did I make the right decision") instead.

  • Poker Face? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by SharpFang ( 651121 )
    Excuse me! Online games isolate you! You can cry, kick and cheer, then reply to the email in ballanced, calm words. But if they call and ask you for a face to face meeting, where's your computer-trained poker face?

    • Do traders need a poker face? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My vision of these guys is that they spend their entire days sitting in front of a terminal trading strictly on the numbers.

      That being said, most business people need advanced interpersonal skills. That can also be improved with the right kind of computer games. When I taught high school (back when a 386 was a worthy computer), I ran the 'hackers' club. Our computers were networked within the lab and there were a few games that could be multiplayer. The rugged individualists eventually learned that the

    • Re:Poker Face? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BenjyD ( 316700 )
      AFAICS, online gaming trains most people to be complete f***tards. In BF1942 it's enough to make me give up - every server seems full of Tkers, plane-campers, cheats, sniper-tards, non-team-players, base-rapers and stats-whores.
      When you see someone with a 42:1 kill:death put three tank rounds in a row into a panzer *he can't even see* because there's a wall in the way at long range in one game, and then next server have your team of 9 snipers + me overwhelmed by tanks, you start to get a annoyed.
    • Not to mention that pleasant online twitch gamer smell. And the pale skin from never having left their parents basement.
    • There is no other face a person can have, that sits at a machine hours and hours and hours. That blank glazed stare is a pretty good poker face if you ask me. ;)

  • Hmm (Score:4, Funny)

    by n54 ( 807502 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:51AM (#10485868) Homepage Journal
    Any job openings for first post? ;)

    But seriously, most finance traders are utter sleazeballs and assholes so the internet and multiplayer games should be good training for them.

    Maybe lawyers too? :)

    • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Funny)

      by mikewas ( 119762 )
      Lawyers? No!

      A few years ago, where I used to work, I noticed a secretary using the copy machine on our floor. She was from legal & their machine was broken. She was making copies of a 4 inch stack of email printouts.

      Her job was to print all of the emails her boss got, stamp them with a date, then make copies. One copy got filed, the other read by her lawyer boss. She'd then respond to emails per her boss's scribbles, file the annottated hardcopies, print the responses, time stamp & file them.

      I

      • Re:Hmm (Score:2, Informative)

        by n54 ( 807502 )
        lol funny story but I know why they did some of it:
        0. I'm sure they did backups of their data, making the "ultimate" offline copies for the archive is adding another level of redundancy to the backup.
        1. dragging your laptop from archive to archive (not the zip kind but the fireproofed steel ones) finding references from a mail can be cumbersome, even a tablet pc loses out to a sheet of paper (or many). Maybe some of those archives are digitized but for really important cases they would still want to find
        • If I understand you, a person dragging a tablet PC from fireproofed archive to fireproofed archive, as opposed to paper, is going to experience a loss.

          My speed reading techniques aren't working because of these reasons that are the cause of I can't understand what is written down.

          • Re:Hmm (Score:1)

            by n54 ( 807502 )
            Yup you got it. It might sound strange to us because we're in love with computers but paper and post-it notes are actually more efficient in most of these situations. This is partly because both the referring document(s) and the document(s) to find usually are going to be submitted in paper.

  • Gaming at work, gaming at home (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:51AM (#10485869)
    I know I play Solitaire at both places

  • I'm still wondering... (Score:5, Funny)

    by 88NoSoup4U88 ( 721233 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:51AM (#10485873)
    I'm still wondering why I didn't get through that last job interview though...

    .

    ... it might have been that I yelled 'OMFG, YO FREAKIN' CH34T0R!!!!!oneelevenone!" at the end of it...

  • Game programming (hobby) got me a job (Score:5, Informative)

    by theluckyleper ( 758120 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:52AM (#10485880) Homepage
    I don't know if playing games has helped me much, but I know for sure that my game development hobby got me at least one job.

    I went into the interview with a CD-ROM of all of my past programming work, including a few of my partially completed game projects. When they asked me, "What qualifies you to be our programming guru?" I showed them my games, and they asked me when I could start! I think they understood that game programming is inherently quite complex, and that if I could make spaceships swarm and attack in real-time, I could probably handle the optimization of their relatively simple business applications. And they were right!

    Anyway, that's my story :)

  • There are actually many places where games helpful (Score:4, Interesting)

    by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:54AM (#10485887)
    The fact is, the way our world is getting more and more computerised and at the same time getting shorter and shorter in attention span and quicker and quicker in requiring responses, the skills of quick analysis of things and then acting on them is getting important in many things.

    The traders are just a tip of the iceberg, with the advent of the generation of people who expect instant response to things, the skills of analysing data and leaping to right conclusion most of the time is going to be a major requirement in all fields that deal with humans.

  • Based on the Traders I know... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:54AM (#10485888)
    The gold standard in training should involve proficiency in both GTA3 and Leisure Suit Larry.

  • Whatever happened to our "Future of Pure Leisure"? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Cryofan ( 194126 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:58AM (#10485909) Journal
    Remember the visions of the future we had decades ago? We saw the future as a place of nothing but leisure for humans, while our machines did the work for us. We would spend our time playing games, instead.

    But it looks more like a Slave Plantation Future, one where even our leisure time has to be dedicated to preparation for work. Gee, I wonder what happened?

    • Uh ... Free Trade? Global Economy?

      "In the Year 2525, if Man is still alive, arms and legs have nothin' to do ... some machine be doin' it for you, oh woe."

      Boy, they sure got that one wrong.
    • Slave unit malfunction in progress. Self-awareness iminent. Please repair this so I can go back to my life of pure leisure.
    • Remember the visions of the future we had decades ago? We saw the future as a place of nothing but leisure for humans, while our machines did the work for us. We would spend our time playing games, instead.

      Instead what happened is that machines took all the easy jobs, the people who control the machines get all the money, and most people are left working harder at the few jobs left that machines can't do.

      • Firstly, the machines didn't take the jobs. They were given the jobs.

        Because the number of true and unprovable statements is infinite, surely there are more jobs than machines, hard and easy, especially jobs that are too hard for anything with less than omnipotence.

        In the future it seems that people will take the easy jobs, particularly the job of playing with all the new toys. We've got to look forward to having more fun. Hypothesis: people need to work hard, but people having more fun when the work gets
    • We've had professional sports for over a hundred years, and people still play those same games when their friends are over. Does that mean they are practicing to become pro athletes? No, they're just having fun. Life isn't an RPG with limited skill points, it's quite possible to spend your time earning nothing more than a few hours of fun and ignoring further implications of what you are doing.
    • When the autonomous humanoid robot is invented, then the future of leisure will be upon us, and not before.

  • Whoa.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by FusionDragon2099 ( 799857 ) <fusiondragon2099@gmail.com> on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:58AM (#10485910)
    With the experience Simcity's given me over 10 years, I should be a shoe-in for a real mayoring job! Where do I start?
  • Let's not get too caught up in 'gaming can have a positive impact' type talk, because then we must also admit to it having a potentially negative impact. Personally I happen to think it can be both, but I know I've heard a lot of people here argue against it having a negative impact on kids, and I'm willing to bet a large number of the very same people come out and irrationally proclaim gaming to be the saviour of the universe now.. And with that... back to my game

  • Work? Try "life." (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MsWillow ( 17812 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:00AM (#10485922) Homepage Journal
    While growing up, my mom used to tell me that I'd never learn any useful skills by playing video games. Now that I have multiple sclerosis, and cannot work, some of those skills are essential in my daily life.

    What use is being proficient with a joystick? Well, when your main means of locomotion is a power wheelchair, being able to manoever sure helps. Being able to judge speed/distance relationships helps, too - both skills fine-tuned in video game parlours.

    Life sometimes throws us a curveball, and there's no way to really predict exactly what skillset might be useful at every point in time. Video games are just another skill. Arguably more common than, say, brain surgery, but then, just how many brain surgeons does the world need?

    • I learned to drive stick from video games. Thank you, Cruisin USA. That's not even close to MS, but just wanted to back you up on the whole usefull skill thing.

    • Work? Try "life."-Backwards. (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Life sometimes throws us a curveball, and there's no way to really predict exactly what skillset might be useful at every point in time."

      I can read upside down and backwards.

      Of what life task will that help me.
      • Helps in job interviews so you can read the interviewer's notes while he's writing them.
      • Years back, when I worked as an aide in the computer center at a junior college, I learned to type left-handed and upside-down, while checking the cables under the desks. I never thought that would be useful - I mean, who cares if you're a fast left-hand-only typist?

        MS wiped out my right side. I now get plenty of chance to show off typing fast, left-handed-only.

        Mind you, unless I get captured by terrorists and must signal to loved ones back home, during a taped "interview", I can think of few reasons w

    • There are a lot of brains on this planet. We might need quite a few, considering how people in my locale drive. Many of them might need fine-tuning just for the sake of it, as well.

  • Cool! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Just added my ladder rankings to my resume.

  • Oh yeah, ought to work.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:03AM (#10485930) Journal
    Co-worker: Hey Seth, the other development team managed to convince someone into giving them full access to some of our resources...
    Seth: Damn! Interceptors up front! FORM UP! Have assault frigates attack the flanks, keep a missile destroyer near the heavy cruisers in case bombers fly by! Protect the mothership! FOR HIGAARA!
    Co-worker: Once I find the idiot who hired you I'm going to strangle him...
    Seth: Shut up or I'll TK you.

    Somehow I doubt that will work...

  • So this means I should waste even more time playing GTA for training? I'll show my 100% completeness of Vice City next time I get to an interview.
  • ...that so-called ``Edutaiment'' is just pure abuse of the quite-modern social concept of education? It, generally, is a quite bad form of scholarship multiplied by an even worse entertainment factor... ---- Now listening to: Pink Floyd - Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2)

  • They're not the only ones (Score:5, Informative)

    by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:03AM (#10485938) Homepage
    The military has used gaming to identify potential recruits for some high value jobs and Google is famous for using puzzles and games to indentify individuals they might want to hire.
    • "The military has used gaming to identify potential recruits for some high value jobs"

      Yup [americasarmy.com]! And I have managed to get myself thrown in jail several times for killing sergeants and things like that, so at least I've learned that it's wrong to kill sergeants.

  • How many scandals does it take? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by danharan ( 714822 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:18AM (#10485988) Journal
    It's one thing to hire people that have great hand-to-eye coordination from hours of Gameboy play, but it's quite another to seek out good liars:
    "After all, in many workplace situations the ability to get away with white lies, to save face or be diplomatic, or to smooth over or disguise mistakes and errors, is a big advantage."
    Hire enough compulsive liars, and the people that are promoted will be the slickest players of the bunch. How long does it take those people to rise to the top? 10, 15 years? You can bet we'll have another wave of Enrons just about then.

  • Worked for me (Score:5, Funny)

    by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:19AM (#10485995)
    The company where I now work were downsizing and I was hired because of my propensity to TK in team games.

  • Not listed - Essential Job Qualifications.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:23AM (#10486008)
    Financial Market Job Qualifications...

    1. Being able to parrot in-house analysts information, using words like "paradigm" and "fundamentals" while keeping a straight face and hoping noone asks for definitions

    2. Being able to locate a topless or gogo bar within ten miles of any client's office or home when making a housecall

    3. Being able to polish off an eight-ball without taking off your $150 YSL tie

    4. Being able to "max blast kudos to everyone"

    5. Believing that Gordon Gecko was the hero of Wall Street

    6. Unlike a used car salesman, who will sell his grandmother a lemon, you must be able to sell your grandmother a car that doesn't even exist, and manage to rip her off again when she comes back to complain.

    7. Being able to profit on both turning your client's $10,000 into $100,000 and when you turn $100,000 into $10,000

    8. And finally: Having a GED as your highest level of education, and still call yourself a professional with a title of "Executive Vice President" - as if you are a Wharton MBA.

    No seriously, stock brokers are the lowest form of life in the galaxy. While there are a small handful of exceptions (Certified Financial Planners who are also training Economists or accoutants), most don't give two shits about their clients, their coworkers, their boss or their current firm. They fly around more than IT people and stealing their firm's intellectual property is both tolerated and expected (firms have routine court cases against each other for the practice of using stock brokers as mediums to move high value clients around the block).

    If you can read the newspaper, use online stock analysis tools and place your own orders, you are much better off doing it yourself. Brokers don't have any specific understanding of any market or industry, they don't do their own valuations or formulas and they rely on the same advice that is mostly publicly available for free - and if you have an account with E*Trade or others, you can get the same quality tools that stockbrokers have for free. All they care about is writing tickets, and they don't care if you make or lose money, either way, they get paid.

  • Can't stay in the game (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Japong ( 793982 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:23AM (#10486010)

    On the subject of online poker, TillerMan, once a top-ranked Warcraft 3 player, stopped playing Warcraft as a "pro" gamer and became a poker player instead, where he apparently now makes several times what he used to as a "cyber athlete".

    Apparently gaming can teach you the skills you need for a very small portion of jobs, but there's little chance of it keeping you employed.

  • Online real-time RFQ responses (Score:4, Funny)

    by mikewas ( 119762 ) <(wascher) (at) (gmail.com)> on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:27AM (#10486027) Homepage
    One of our customers setup an online site for vendors to bid on supplying them with telecommunications equipment. Vendors' equipment had previously been qualified froom a technical standpoint.

    You could change options like price, delivery & support. The app had algorithms that scored your bid against the rest. The points for technical capabilty were determined from previous trials & fixed.

    It was scheduled for 2 hours, with half hour extensions if there was a change by one of the top 3 in the last 5 minutes. The business would be split by the top 2 bidders -- we were trying for the #2 spot to maximize our revenue.

    At the end (after half a day of this game!) we were surprised to find we were in the #1 spot. The company that we had expected to come out on top, that had been for most of 12 hours, didn't get any business. We found out later that the guy at the keyboard had had a heart attack and they dropped to #4.

  • I know slashot helped (Score:4, Insightful)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi@CURIE ... minus physicist> on Sunday October 10, 2004 @11:32AM (#10486044) Journal
    Arguing on Slashdot has certainly helped me deal with the developmently challenged people that email me saying, "I can't get my email to work".
  • If anyone likes playing around with markets and such, Kingdom of Loathing [kingdomofloathing.com] has a great economic system for players level 5 and up. You can buy and sell game items that fluxuate in price depending on supply and demand. For example, when a certain game item went from being indestructable to breaking after x number of uses, I quickly bought up a lot of its components and sold them at a huge profit.

    In addition to the cool economic side of it, the game is an amazing web based RPG that everyone should check out
  • It's discouraging to learn that the skills prized by financial markets are videogame skills which teach kids that if they die, they'll get at least 2 more lives, and be reborn karmically clean for another quarter, and their main social skill is lying in the face of catastrophe. To say nothing of success strategies targeting mass murder, destruction and mayhem. Finance is marketed as based on trust and open communication, but it's obviously based on killing, deceit, and impunity. Viva Capitalismo!

  • After all, in many workplace situations the ability to get away with white lies, to save face or be diplomatic, or to smooth over or disguise mistakes and errors, is a big advantage.

    After having gone through two bad business experiences with people that seem to have "flexible" ethics I'm positive that these are not long term skills I want. White lies are what lawyers call a "slippery slope" and the operative word is "lie", not "white". Covering up mistakes just ensures that they will be repeated. Fre

  • Have you seen the TV commercial for the VSmile "educational} video game for tykes? The mom tells the kids they can stay up late or get dessert "only if you play your videogame". They obviously read this report and are trying to cash in.
    Maybe Micro$oft and other software manufacturers need to redo the interfaces for Office and other business applications so they look more like videogames, so tomorrow's workers will know how to use them. "Blast the saucer to save your file! Oh, too bad, you missed! File delet
  • Yell out...

    No bitch!
  • Here's a study [mediafamily.org]published this year which confirms an association between video gaming prowess and laparoscopic surgical skills.

    When laparoscopy was first developed, the surgeon would peer directly through a rigid fiberoptic laparoscope to visualize structures within the body, both for diagnostic and therapeutic purposes. Nowadays, we just stick a video camera over the eye-hole on the laparoscope, and watch the pictures in real time on an attached monitor. The hardest part about learning laparoscopy is train

  • First of all this article is nonsense. The trend is towards more automation, and fewer humans doing more work. Just like in every industry!

    TFA says: The company follows small fluctuations in the market, easily missed on a bank of trading screens filled with fast moving numbers. Here, traders use mouse clicks to buy or sell.

    The faster their reaction the more money they can make, which is where the video games skills come in.

    Instead of a user interface that requires them to react in response to a chan

  • I doubt I would have the business process modeling job that I have today if it weren't for my experience playing and designing games (MUDs) in college. The two have proven to be remarkably similar. MUDs almost got me kicked out of school too. Now they have game design classes. Bitches.

    I'm still looking for the chest of gold at the end of maze though. :)

  • I can't believe how many people are willing to sacrifice their every day life for more money/prestige/profit???

    I mean, when i'm not at work, I DON'T WORK. While some people are so lame at work that they should get extra training, some others are doing everything they can after regular work hours to train more and be more competitive.

    I officially declare that what i do in my spare time is for my own enjoyment (less the dish cleaning but enjoyment isn't easy when your kitchen is home to 132 rare insect s

  • Just a marketing ploy to attract day traders (Score:3, Informative)

    by Swanktastic ( 109747 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @02:11PM (#10486950)
    First off, these 'employees' are really day traders who are paying a commission to get access to the firm's software and hardware connections into the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. They're not real employees in any sense of the word. The more "employees" this Geneva Trading attracts to its company, the more money it makes.

    What better marketing angle to exploit than 'people who are good at video games can make tons as traders?' You get a bunch of suckers in there who are told they're great and they blow through their cash. The only beneficiary is Geneva Trading. These kids aren't investment bankers or anything even close.

  • Sounds like those 300APM (Actions Per Minute) Korean StarCraft players can now have a real job. They need to out-source these jobs to Korea.
  • In other news, American financial workers are complaining of job losses to the Indian gaming community.... I'm sorry, that's next year's joke.
  • i was always told my video gaming skills would give me the coordination needed to be a brain surgeon, but now i find it'll help me land more jobs than just that. heh, another point for the gamer geeks.
  • ..you know you've taken it too far if you start hopping sideways down the office shouting "hut! hut! hut!" and trying to rocket jump up to your car in the multi storey car park...

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