Linux & Education - How To Get It For Your School 288
r-jae asks: "I've noticed there's been a bit of discussion on the topic of Linux in Education on /. recently. As a high school student, how I could improve the situation at my school? Today in Software Development, my class were discussing software licensing. I was asked to name any license that I could think of. I mentioned the GPL, and my teacher looked at me as if I were green and had antennae. When I described it to her, she passed me off as if I were off my rocker. So my question is, how can I possibly change this situation? How can I convince the faculty to include a unit of Linux, or free software, in the course? "
People buy from people (Score:1)
Who sold Win to your school, and who bought it? The principal, and the saleman he knows outside of school hours.
The principal met the salesman at the service club they both belong to. Kiwanis, Rotary, Lions, Masons, Knights of Columbus, Chamber of Commerce, the guys who ride around on the miniature motorcycles who fund the burn hospitals that train most of the pediatricians ... you get the idea.
The people with the money get to size you up and determine if you are trustworthy. That's how you make contacts to sell stuff.
You? You're still in the dirt with no track record, and you're trying to sell to someone with no purchasing authority. School teachers are at the same level as bank tellers, albiet very highly paid. If you've got something to sell, you're wasting everybody's time talking to her.
Your best bet is to volunteer for a nonprofit, something like your local historical society, or another independent, tiny org. Stay away from name brand charities like the Red Cross or United Way. They are suit oriented. The first thing they'll think is "If this is so good, other people would be buying it. He would be driving a Beamer, wear a Hickey-Freeman, and have big bucks."
And make sure you set up the disk for diald, PHP/postgresql/Apache/MacIntosh, and it works first thing right off the bat. You'll never get a second chance. Do the set up at home, bring in the drive for a quick plug in.
Nobody cares or wants to hear about open source or labor pains, they just want to see the baby.
Only after a 5 or 6 successful (trouble free) installations, will word get back to the principal. Trust me, they have connections. Only after that will you have an audition. Just one, don't screw it up.
Work the CS/IT department. (Score:1)
The IT department is usually a good place to go for anything computerlike (obvious man strikes again). Most of the IT faculty here is not Linux-capable, (or even too computer-capable) but is eager to learn. Perhaps presenting to them the benefits of Linux (cost, stability, educational value, source avaliability etc.) would work; it hasn't hurt here. Some of them may be familiar with Linux, but not know too much about it. In that case, perhaps giving a live demo (using a shitbox in the storage room, or something to that effect) would help.
Additionally, CS teachers sympathetic to student interests are invaluable for doing any Linux work at the school. Try approaching the most knowledgeable/friendly one, and inquire about if they know what Linux is. If so, great! If not, explain it, emphasizing its technical merits and cost. Perhaps offer to demonstrate it, or show off screenshots. Bringing up the monetary side of it works good. Whatever piques their interest...
I really doubt that there will be many Linux classes, especially given that the majority of students (remember, this is at my school: YMMV) don't even know that much about Windoze. Many administrators are unfortunatly highly allergic to free software. Appealing directly to faculty (CS teacher, math department head, executive leader of mathlike activities...) works well. Always be sure to explain clearly the benefits and philosophy behind the software. Show analogies between software that exists for Windoze and Linux software (GCC == Borland/MS Compiler, Emacs == Edit (heh...there's no comparison there), Gnome/KDE == GUI (Remember, these people are *really* used to windows), WordPerfect/StarOffice/LyX/whatever == MS Word). Always volunteer (within reason) to help install/administer, if you do get somewhere. Free support is a very good deal for schools.
Re:Treating our kids like children (Score:1)
and the bretheren of the Penguin said "take this gift of code so that you may grok it and thereby learn"
to which Redmonites replied : "You offer me Software that is not MicroSoft, we are sorely perplexed".
then the bretheren of the Deamon said "take this gift of code that your networks may flourish".
and the Redmondites replied "and what 800 number can we call to be misinformed by some phone monkey when we can't make it go?"
and the bretheren of the Gnu saith "Take this gift of code so you may be free"
and the Redmondites cried "Be off, you commie varlets! How can we be sure that this code be-ith not tainted unless it is a safely sealed binary?!!"
And so the foolish Redmondites continued their slovenly ways untill they were all wiped out by a particularly nasty Word virus
----the book of discordia
Software Development Class? (Score:1)
I'm still in HS now, and I got to take the mandatory Windows Applications class (to train everyone for their upcoming futurres as button-pushers and block-stackers). I also voluntarily took the HTML class in which I got 42 minutes every other day to read slashdot and play Nethack on a remote shell. That was a worthy use of my time, indeed
Beyond those and the Mac Applications class (I gave up on taking computer classes and took Film instead, in the hopes I might learn something), there is no more Computer related curriculum available, much less a Computer Science curriculum.
Okay, rant over.
As for getting people to warm to Linux, try asking to install it on one of the PCs in the lab. Install the vital components, compilers, X11, and Enlightenment
Good luck
You Have Software Development Classes In School? (Score:1)
I work at a high School as the Head of Information System Support (or some other joke of a title) and the thing that I see that is the most advanced computing concept (besides www.shockrave.com) taught is making web pages with claris home page. When I approached the teacher he told me "Yeah I know *every* programming language there is, but writing code is so passe. It is great that we live in a world where something like claris works will write it for you.
Actually, another student got a bad grade in his class for not using claris home page and writing straight HTML. They were told that it was no compatiable with the Web Star server they were using.
I have been sickened by this whole charade where I will be looking for other work and have been scared to death about the state of .edu at least from my vantage point. My question is: How many people are learning advanced computing concepts in their high school? What kinds of things are you learning? And is anyone havin the same experience I am?
Just post your teacher's email address (Score:1)
happy to explain things to her
Computer Education (Score:1)
A good computer educator is going to be hard to find in public/private schools. The pay is way too low for someone with decent tech skills.
The actual hardware most schools have is pathetic, and the younger you go, the more pathetic it gets. And many can't develop standards. There may be 5 macs in one classroom, but all of them are running different OS versions, etc.
Most regular classroom teachers, from elementary on up, don't really know how to use a computer, or how a computer basically works. They can use word or something, but that's the extent of it. The computer use in the average upper grade classroom is typically limited to word processing and research.
In elementary schools, I've found that computer use is basically only for "educational" games (the vast majority of which are no better, if not worse, than worksheets or wrote practice!). The other use in elementary schools is as a reward or punishment. This should never happen. It's like telling a child "you were bad today, so you can't read your science book".
Most teachers are utterly clueless as to how computers actually function much less how to integrate them into the curriculum, are stuck with old, outmoded, frustrating hardware and/or software, and quite frankly, so many are so close to retirement, they just don't give a damn.
The baby boomer generation is nearing retirement age and a HUGE chunk of the teaching workforce will be retiring in the next few years. I was going to be an elementary school teacher. But the anti-male, totally pc (not the computer kind), technology illiterate culture combined with the horribly low pay has driven me far, far away from that. I could have dealt with the low pay, but the rest of it was... ugh.
I think if people want their kids tech savvy, they'll need to start a tech-centric charter school.
Just Do It ! (Score:1)
Sometimes we do have to remember the wise words of the late Admire Grace Hopper:
"It's easier to obtain forgiveness than permission."
In most school situation, to obtain the permission to go ahead with a Linux implementation, one has to go through hoops and most often, the answer is a flat "NO !".
Sometimes you just have to do it, with or without any permission, and when everything is done - the computer lab is running smoothly, with all kinds of needed things that a school needs, for example - the admin can say "NO !" but that would mean they have to do it all over again.
Credibility (Score:1)
These are organizations the teacher would know of and cannot dismiss as kids or crackpots.
Once you have their attentin, you can talk about why these large, reputable organizations are using and supporting GPL software. Tailor your arguments to your situation using the hints provided by others in this thread.
Teach it yourself, they're not capable anyway (Score:1)
Time for covert operations! (Score:1)
You might even be able to pull it off when the teacher's in the room. If you can't, wait until a sub comes in --- then just pop in the CDs and repartition away.
It may sound drastic, but sometimes that's what's required. The trick is to make it so that even if you are "caught," the administration can't touch you. It all depends on how the rules at your school are worded exactly.
Do what you need to first, and then feign ignorance later. (^o^)
I'm president of my school's computer club (Score:1)
It's amazing how interested people get in these computers. Students wondering what Linux is like can come over and oogle at the boxes. Some of my teachers have even been interested in seeing the computers themselves, just to find out more about Linux.
Also, our high school's entire yearbook network is dependent on a Linux appletalk server our vice president has got running in there. In fact, the school is training a freshman to use Linux so that they'll be able to keep things going when he leaves.
To give credit where it's due, the vice president of the club, brtb, has done a lot more for Linux at our school than I have. He frequents slashdot, and has probably made a post somewhere in this discussion. He'll probably be president next year (after I graduate), so things are looking good for the club.
Oh, and Brendan: my apolgies if I've said anything I should've kept to myself. (^o^)
Re:Mandrake on a THREE-eight-six (Score:1)
I run Mandrake 6.1 on a 486SLC40, which is a 386 wannabe 486 (no FPU, kind of like a 486SX but in actuality a stretched 386). It would need an FPU to install, so I rebuilt the kernel for FPU emulation by plugging the drive into a 486, installing there, and doing make menuconfig etc. No other software was recompiled. It runs ferpectly. (-:
The warnings on 7.0 are no more dire than on 6.1, so expect the same technique to work with it.
See this website [linuxlots.com] for pix of the machine. It is about to suffer a brain transplant (to permit more RAM) so I can use it as a cached, filtering proxy.
Re:Treating our kids like children (Score:1)
Socialism and Linux (Score:1)
Projects like Linux and GNU are wonderful examples of free association of workers and worker control producing products that far better serve the consumer than anything produced by private industry.The source code is public and administered by a body of programmers and experts.
What's the source of this Utopian condition? Lack of profit motive and worker control of the means of production.This all sounds like the transfer of computer technology to social ownership, bound up with the establishment of a socialist workers government.Is that what this is about? Is that where we are headed? I for one am at a loss, I am a capitalist and I would never want such a thing to occur, or am I a closet socialist because I am passionate about open source software? Or am I completely wrong in my interpretation of the movement?
Vishak
---------------------------------------
Palpatine: The power of the dark side is boundless while that of the light side is finite.
Anakin: Why is that?
Palpatine: The strength of the light Jedi is limited by his or her own personal skill. Thus, their power is bound by their own personal limits and failings. But the power of a dark Jedi is not dependent on his or her own individual skill. Instead, the greater the dark Jedi's hatred, anger and impatience the greater the dark Jedi's power. The dark side feeds on anger and hate. The more anger and hate you can harness, the more powerful you can become. The best light Jedi is no match for even the most novice of dark Jedi . . .
Re:Course Material? (Score:1)
Re:Good high school CS classes few and far between (Score:1)
My wife just had a very similar experience. She was taking an introductory course in C at the local junior college and the instructor went way overboard. People who are trying to learn a new language and are not computer scientists or mathematicians (the Instructor was working toward his Ph.D. in Math.) really don't need to be assigned to write Fibonacci Number generators or solve the Towers of Hanoi puzzle. There was virtually no coverage of I/O, structs (unions, etc.), or debugging. There was only one assignment that required writing a program that dealt with external data files; hardly a ``real world'' situation. I guess all these topics were covered in the only prerequisite course: Introduction to BASIC. Nearly half the class dropped out of the C course.
--
Re:Treating our kids like children (Score:1)
When I read this quote in the original post, I had to wonder what the heck most high school instructors would be teaching about software licensing in the first place! I'll bet that this discussion came up, primarily, to get across some points about how you're not supposed to pirate software.
--
invite speakers (Score:1)
remember that teachers above all want to leave a lasting impression. the speakers you invite should all agree to consult for the teacher on a long term basis so that the teacher is strengthened by the interaction as well as the students.
in this way, everyone who knows something and shares it is a teacher, and those who learn something useful is a student. the GPL is quite favorable to this outlook.
after you invite me to your school, don't forget to insist on a collaboration. doing some programming is, after all, the reward for learning about programming. (but don't ask me about C++!)
Peer pressure for your school (Score:1)
CEU 988Q Linux System Administration, CEUs: 4.40-Introduces the Linux operating system including installation, basic administration, configuring for desktop and internet. Course prepares students for General Exam 1 for Linux Certification.
Prereq: working knowledge of computer hardware & software. Tuition: $600. Fee: $60.
17347 Capital WCWTC 1510 5:30p-9:30p Tue 1/4-3/14 Taylor
and
CEU 96I Linux - Install and Configure, CEUs: 0.60-First in the Dynamic Data Delivery Series. Learn basic commands, network config. and troubleshooting as you install and configure Linux OS.
Prep for Apache Web Server and Web Data Delivery courses. Tuition: $100. Fee: $30.
17350 Capital WCWTC 1510 8:30a-3:30p Sat 2/19 Taylor
There are also classes in Apache, mySQL and Perl if you want to use them for Open Source coursework examples. PCC is on the web [pcc.edu] if your teacher needs to see for him (her?)self.
Our local branch of the University of Phoenix is preparing to offer Linux coursework also.
Suggestion: get a new teacher? (Score:1)
It's unclear from your description whether you got the strange reaction due to lack of knowledge of the existence of the GPL, or just disagreement with its terms on the part of your teacher. If you have a Software Design teacher who is unaware of the existence of such a license and its impact on the current state of software development, you can probably despair of learning much current information in the class. If your teacher has a disagreement with the terms of the GPL then that's one thing; but wholesale ignorance of the contributions of various free software licenses isn't an option anymore in the industry.
I'm not sure what would be a good approach to take as far as making changes; though, since I don't recall any software classes being available in high school. You'll find instructors a lot more cognizant of the GPL in college I expect.
Teacher didn't know GPL exists? (Score:1)
Personally, I think the teacher is probably burned out, or does not have enough funding or energy to keep up with technology. My syster in-law who just graduated from high school told me some horror stories of her computer class. Her teacher really didn't have much of a clue, other than how to use Microsoft Word. For example, he had a room full of networked computers, and one printer, yet each student had to bring a floppy to the computer with the printer to print anything out. I told her how easy it was to enable printing to the printer over the network using Win95 Peer-to-Peer printer sharing. The teacher was impressed to see how knowledgeable she was! Who knows maybe the guy was a temp. But, this is a good example of why our country needs a radical change in education, and why foreign students are winning the big tech. jobs in the US.
Ignorance is ... Bliss? (Score:1)
Last year, one of the math teachers (interesting trend, eh?) decided that, after much persuasion from a-stupid-girl-I-know-and-her-little-friend-who-th
My school recently got a new "network technician" or "computer expert" (he's just a guy who dances around in the wiring closet and hits the button when the windoze boxes crash), and I knew that the only way I would ever get any linux influence at school would be if I were to befriend him (though he is dumb too). It turns out he is yet more foolish - I was talking to him after school one day after lab when he decided to copy the contents of one computer's hard drive onto another one that got f@*$ed up (he accidentally copied the messed up one onto the good one, too) and I mentioned the Crusoe processor, and I also mentioned slashdot (the story was on here, I told him he could find a link here) - and he said something along the lines of "Oh, is that the Liiii-nucks place?" I have considered him a fool since then from his Ignorance and his mispronunciation of the word Linux.
Luckily, my physics teacher is installing linux-PPC on his Mac on school, so I have a friend around there. Maybe we can get some X-terminals someday (wait, even though that is cheaper than paying for all that windoze hardware and all the liscences, and it is smarter overall, the are scared . .
Anyway, just wait till you get to college! I can almost definitely assure that there will be some unix system somewhere there. I know that only then will I have knowledge about me. Others' Ignorance is not my bliss.
Re:Ignorance is ... Bliss? (Score:1)
Second of all, you stating that it (cracking - i don't crack, I hack - code mostly) is boring and uneventful only goes to show that your experiences were uneventful because you weren't good enough.
Also, I'm not a stupid skript kiddie. You think I don't know what FSF is? Ok go get a less stuck up opinion of others and get rid of your self-righteousness.
I think I would know a LITTLE bit about the culture . .
So stop taking out your lack of skill on others - you only reveal your patheticness.
Re:Participate! (Score:1)
My guess is that he would be more likely to get suspended for bringing "pirated" software to school. Back in my high school days this was a major offence, and the BCTFH kept his eyes open. I would bring a printed copy of the GPL just in case. If anyone there has two clues, they should be impressed by a high school kid handing out a legal document and a free clone of UNIX.
-BW
Re:Some thoughts (Score:1)
And using CodeWarrior was even a bit of a kludge. I took Programming I my first semester here, last year, and we used MS Visual J++. This was because Microsoft gave the Professor a free copy, and he decided to try it out. A lot of students went out and got a copy to put on their home computers, so they could work at home. Guess what happened next semester? EECS realized how bad J++ was, and switched to CodeWarrior. Those of us who'd bought J++ now had to go buy a copy of CodeWarrior. Not cheap, even considering the academic pricing. Ah well, such is the *business* of education...
Re:Participate! (Score:1)
I agree, the teacher is clueless. Unfortunately, clueless teachers seem to be all too common in this country. What you are up against here is *very* similar to the MCSE mindset that is so often adversarial to Linux in corprate settings. The fact that the hardware, software, and course materials may have been donated or subsidized by Microsoft (or an MS "partner") only makes it more difficult for your teacher to see that there is a non-Microsoft world out here.
Play around with Linux at school if you can, but be careful. Nothing scares a teacher more than a student who knows more than she does. You're gonna be on your own here, since the teacher can't teach it if she doesn't know it. Grab the zipslack distro from Slackware for serious stealth installs.
Grab as much Win32 GPL stuff as you can: ActiveState Perl, Cygwin GCC, even Apache. Show off any cool stuff you can do with them on Win32, and segue into the GPL that way.
Most of all, keep chiming in to questions like that. Let your classmates know that Linux is real, and that real people use it to get real work done. The ones who care will find out more on their own, just like you did.
Re:Microsoft is a monopolist... (Score:1)
>computer labs.
Someone did that at my Uni a few years back.
So the Computer Services guys glued ALL of the mice shut. In ALL of the labs in that building. For all I know, the Uni is still glueing it's new mice shut.
So there are hundreds of mice that can't be cleaned and are slowly getting gummed up and unusable... All because of some asshole prank.
Re:Socialism and Linux (Score:1)
Most americans are raised to think that communism is evil, and that it is in no way compatible with "freedom". I once heard someone say "Linux is CAPITALISTIC because you have the FREEDOM to do anything you want". And since when does capitalism (the desire to create profit) have anything to do with freedom (the ability to do what you want) ?
People confuse economic ideologies and political. For example.. Communism and capitalism are economic ideologies, democracy and fascism are political. There's a world of difference, and although democratic (or republic) forms of government are usually implemented with some form of capitalism, there's nothing preventing a country from having a democratic government implementing communist economic policies.
You need to see the difference between the economy and politics. Just because you use linux doesn't mean you want a socialist government
I'm not sure exactly what this has to do with Linux and K12 education though
If you get really lucky... (Score:1)
When we began hiring for a network technician, Linux experience was included on the app. Six months ago the coordinator told the business manager that Linux in schools was not posible because people did not know enough about it. After me fooling around a little he was able to see that the knowledge base was already in the school.
Currently we are looking at moving our webserver and mail server over to Linux. Paying a couple thousand for a cheap hardware is much better than paying the couple thousand for hardware and then ten thousand more for Novell's mail solution.
I have met with technology coordinators from larger districts who also take interns. I really think this is your best bet for getting Linux in use. Our coordinator even took a few hours of his last day to teach me about IP addressing. Good luck
Linux in Schools (Score:1)
The K12-Linux project, by PLUG (Portland Linux Users' Group) hosted at: http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux/ [k12.or.us].
k12linux.org [k12linux.org] proper.
There's the k12-linux mailing list here [k12.or.us].
I want a rock.
Re:Microsoft is a monopolist... (Score:1)
Linux ..... But there isn't a single teacher smart enough to set that up.
I may be missing the point here, but surely teachers are meant to teach, not sysadmin?
Nick.
Re:What answer did she expect? (Score:1)
Something's weird about this question.
I'm glad it's not just me who thinks that. The exact same thought passed through my head as I read the question for the first time.
I rather suspect the question was created to get somebody's name up in lights than for any other reason
Nick.
Re:Try the money angle (Score:1)
Re:Software Development in HS? (Score:1)
You might have to also hand in printouts of screenshots to show the program running, and the teacher can view the source code to confirm that it looks like you're indeed doing some work. Or see if there's an old 486 you can put Linux on so they can test your work -- and if they end up using it as an in-house Web server then so much the better.
I was doing similar things in high school. Wrote a drug-identification program instead of an essay for Health class. Handed in Assembly-language programs in BASIC class. Handed in programs done on the TTY 33ASR at the college rather than the computer the high school was using (the college sold computing accounts to students). My FORTRAN programs had the required flowcharts, but they were on the right hand side of the printout because they were generated by a program on a magnetic tape from the manufacturer's user association (I knew FORTRAN, but wanted to sit through the course to get updated, and to get college credit).
Give them some of the history (Score:1)
as the "child of the internet", developed
by thousands of volunteers.
Tell the teacher that there has actually been
sociology-studies on the field (people
working for free), and show her
a copy of "The cathedral and the bazaar" by
Eric S. Raymond.
This will especially work well if the teacher has
some sociology background.
Then some of the statistics for Linux. F.eks.
being second most popular server-OS in sales,
perhaps even THE most in actual use.
Present some of the reasons:
-Open standards and development
-Incredible peerreview
-fast development cycles.
Lastly share the fact that Linux is increasing
it's market share as a desktop-OS as well, and
tell her about the availability of a good Office suite (Star Office) and productivity applications.
Do not, I repeat not bash Microsoft in the process. This will make you seem like an extremist. Be calm, and open.
You can say that you and a lot of people prefer
it to Windowsplatforms because of speed, reliability and flexibility, and that it is
well worth a try.
Tech High Schools (Score:1)
Taking advantage of this, I talked Mr. Hamilton (the philosophy, history and computers teacher, who's vastly knowledgable in all three) about getting a Linux club and class going, got the club going, and about a third of the students in the Computers class executes thier studies on the Linux cluster I started.
Inside the building, we have our own TLD, .nrst, and two domains: strut.nrst for the technology recycling program and the main Linux cluster, and beowulf.nrst, for the small Beowulf cluster we're trying to pull together (If you've done this on Debian, please email me).
My recommendation: See if your district offers a tech school and transfer out to that. The plan will be much more well recieved.
Tell your school to slow down a little. (Score:1)
I don't expect a high school OR its students to be able to handle wacky classes like that.
Embittered,
R.NR
PS: High school students are smarter than their teachers. Don't you know that? (Don't they make you kids read Sideways Stories from Wayside School anymore? Sheesh.)
My School! (Score:1)
Our tech/networking guy is a bus driver who owns a computer "and therefore must know about computers." He's an idiot.
Our computer classes are just the basics. "This is a mouse." "This is a window." "This is MS Works 3.5"... Our teacher actually believed that you should delete your programs after a week before they "evaporate and drip into a puddle."
If we had a programming class, it would be HTML. (Yes, I know it's not programming--they don't.)
Re:Socialism and Linux (Score:1)
But nobody has to contribute according to their ability, if they don't want to contribute they don't have to or they can contribute less than their aximum. And nobody is limited to only taking what they need, if the code exists they can use it. It's more like "From each what they're prepared to give, to each that which they wish to use". This is no more communistic than capitalistic, neither addresses a situation in which satisfying the wants (or needs) of one person doesn't have to mean depriving someone else.
Forget It.... (Score:1)
Couple that with the fact that most of the dickheads that comprise these faculties are M$ drones, who really think they are a sysadmin when they can make their own shortcut on the desktop...
It has to come from the top, someone has to show the Industry, and subsequently these people, what Industry Standard really means.
(Not M$ $ubstandards!!!)
Good Advice Here....Come get some... (Score:1)
Dude, do us all a favour and don't log in as AC, let us know who you are so we can perpetuate the sensibility...
HIgh school teachers are generally morons.... (Score:1)
Most people at school (even the teachers running the computer courses) aren't equipped to deal with anything more complicated than Windows. Don't ask them to take on anything like linux in any official curriculum-based capacity. The brainpower just isn't there.
Think back to the conformist-dogma-teaching zombies that you knew in high school. I only knew two teachers who would be capable of networking with linux. My physics and my chemistry teacher. The guy who bought Apple IIe's for our school wouldn't have a clue as to what to do.
Regards,
painkillr
I fear it is impossible at a high school level. (Score:1)
CS teachers are generally either conservative or foolish. The conservatives rever what they used in college, often something along the lines of Fortran. They are inflexible, and refuse to hear anything that goes against their ideas.
The foolish are followers of some particular trend. Some follow Java like zombies, others check up on every Visual Basic trend they see. Anything that does not follow this trend is bad and wrong, because what they do is obviously the right way.
If you are blessed and have a CS teacher that does neither, you have a chance. Otherwise, you are pretty much out of luck. Dealing with arrogant teachers is nearly impossible.
Re:I fear it is impossible at a high school level. (Score:1)
That depends on the needs of the course/school. (Score:1)
Where does the school get its money? If it's government funded, it's likely to be relatively cash-strapped right now - open-source software isan excellent solution due to cost issues. The same goes for privately funded schools - the board would be remiss if it did not examine alternatives which can save money and protect returns/tuition.
What does the school teach? If it is a technical institution, like Devry etc. it is likely targetting its students at the (current) market-leader which is (unfortunately) Microsoft. One of the best ways to make this organizations see the advantages of teaching with open source is to show hard numbers. They make money only if students attend. They get students by showing that their program is relevant to current/future job markets. Market studies projecting Linux to remain the fastest growing operating system through 2003 can go a long way towards convincing these organizations to change. If we're talking about a University or college, these organizations tend to take a more academic view of their subject matter. Using Linux allows these groups to more effectively teach just about anything from OS design, through databases and UI. They can teach about complex systems using the code, rather than building toy systems from scratch.
As for your teacher, it is shocking to see a (technical) educator who 1) does not know about open source and 2) does not take open source seriously. Her credibility as an educator is shaken by a lack of knowledge of one of the most important currently used development models. "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" has recently been prnited (along with "A Brief History of Hackerdom", "Homesteading the Noosphere", and "Revenge of the Hackers". These should be required reading for anyone who should (by virtue of their position) know something about open source but doesn't.
Not just education but good education.. (Score:2)
Re:Treating our kids like children (Score:2)
In high school, there were only a handful of teacher that i respected, and those were the ones who treated me as a person. not as a child with no opinion. The rest could go to H E double hockey sticks. In college, the same thing, some professors made me sick to be in their class, others were a joy to be in. My C++ professor was one of my most respected educators ever. why? cause when i did the work, and he saw my potential, he gave me more work to do, and spent the extra time showing all the cool stuff that could be done with a programming language. Plus he wasn't afraid to learn, he was constantly taking courses to advance his knowledge of computer science. And he was the first person to introduce me to unix. I wonder if he is okay, i should try to keep in touch with him.
Damn, i can't even remember his name now....
Course Material? (Score:2)
Re:Post her email address (Score:2)
True story: I have a close friend who graduated with a degree in English and was one Biology course away from having a double major. Enters the public school system teaching, not Biology -- he didn't have ``seniority'' -- but ``Sports and Auto Literature''. I had never seen him more depressed than he was that year. He was fortunate that the school system lacked the funding to hire him back the following year. (He's in IT now.)
...And here in Illinois, these ``fast-track'' certification programs come under fire from, you guessed it, the teacher's unions. The main complaint is that these fast-track upstarts lack the background in teaching methodologies to be good teachers. On the other hand, the teacher's unions have no problem, whatsoever, with placing someone in a Math classroom with four years of education in a subject totally unrelated to the subject they're asked to teach. The fast-track programs are attracting bright, energetic people to teaching. I thinks that's the problem that the unions have with these certification programs. They're bringing in people who see the student's interests and education as job one and the union's interests way down on their list of priorities.
--
Predatory actions. (Score:2)
It is one thing if, because of their monopoly position, Microsoft were only to offer software this cheaply, in the short run, to price gouge up-and-coming competition, with the intent to raise them as soon as the threat is beat into submission. But, to the best of my knowledge, this is not the case.
In regards to the other practices you alluded to, those are very much unethical (not to mention illegal). Because MS flexes their monopoly power here, and is using it to leverage its way into new, or to preserve, existing markets, it is unethical. They are vastly different.
Linux in schools project underway in Portland, OR (Score:2)
The home page for the K12 Linux in Schools Project is http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux [k12.or.us]
Check it out, drop em a line..
Re:Linux in the schools (Score:2)
A group doing just that (Score:2)
More info can be obtained from OCLUG: Ottawa Carleton Linux Users Group [oclug.on.ca]
cheers,
El Malo
Re:Microsoft is a monopolist... (Score:2)
What the person who started this thread failed to realize is that there are a few distinct types of people who are in computer classes in HS. And some more types who will just be using the computers in the library.
First, background. At my HS, they had some bass ackwards deal worked out with Compaq. The school had one technicial who dealt with network issues on the Fancy New computers. That was 2 labs, the new Programming lab and the Library. There were 4 other labs in the school. Drafting, Business and the 2 Applications labs. These other labs were FILLED with old stuff. Note I avoid using the term 'junk.' Why? Easy. The drafting computers were 286's running CADKey. It did the job smashingly. A row of Compaqs was also in this lab. You could literally watch them crash sequentially down the row, every 20 minutes.
Of course, who was maintaining these old labs? Myself and some friends of mine. We overhauled donated computers, replaced whole labs, maintained them. This kind of group is the first group in my list. Good users. The kind of people who respect computers and have fun with them. We would eat our lunch as we wanderd the labs, checking out system problems, making printers work.. Basically the things a tech should do but never did. The teachers couldn't do it. They were business teachers, not computer teachers.
One of the other groups that stood out in the labs was the Kiddies. People with a little knowhow. They would be the ones doing the viriing, pr0ning, etc. They were steaming headon through adolescence and just had to be destructive. I got so damn sick of these ****s. They would whine to the teachers because we were allowed to eat in the labs while we fixed stuff. They'd try to install shit on the old machines that we could only *BARELY* scrape enough harddrive space onto for Windows and Word. On the fast machines a few of them even played Warez Kiddies, chatting from telnet connections to their Shellz. People like these make teachers assholes. My little revenge came from BO'ing every computer I had authority over and smoking them from a distance. It was petty but it was all I had. After all, I wasn't getting paid.
Last was the Clueless. They would be the people who knew how to run IE, Word, etc. They weren't taking classes but rather they were the library users. And of course, with the filters there, everyone just *HAD* to try and see what would happen if they put in a naughty URL. Scary how many people actually FOUND porn, the filters were damn near useless.
Now, out of everyone, there were maybe 10-20 Good Users in the school. Of them, only 8 (me & friends) thought it worth their while to help the labs out. There were a lot more Kiddies. And they were active. And a lot of people who would just try to get porn and virii because the filters were supposed to stop them.
So you tell me, what groups stand out? Screw the good users. Sure, you can trust some of them, but everyone else? You have to be a Computer Lab Nazi.
And also find good uses for it... (Score:2)
I just told him, I've tested Linux, it's a really powerful system, you should try using it for Oracle databases. If you want, I can set up a Linux server for you and teach you a bit how to use it...
Now, one year later they moved ALL their Oracle databases to Linux...
At the sysadmin course, we were only doing some NT stuff (click here to add a user, click here to change his name) so I asked the teacher if we could do some UNIX (notice no Linux here...) he told me that he would like to, but that he had no UNIX server on hand...
I was more than happy to install linux on an old 486 for him....
So my advice is: Find a good use for it, and don't forget to always advocate it positively... The standard "It's windows, it's just normal if it crashes" just doesn't work...
Treating our kids like children (Score:2)
Slashdot has a discussion about this kind of thing on their front page: Voices from the Hellmouth [slashdot.org], More Stories from the Hellmouth [slashdot.org] and The Price of Being Different [slashdot.org]
What answer did she expect? (Score:2)
d
(In my HS days I got asked to "Write any sort routine you want." I wrote recursive bubble sort. Teacher marked it wrong because he didn't understand my code. :))
Re: Recursive bubble sorts (Score:2)
Algorithm was basically the same as bubble until you get to the comparison, which said "If you find two indices that are swappable, swap them and then recursively call this function again." Teacher marked it wrong because he didn't see a terminating condition. I guess he expected to see something like "if sorted then return;" at the top. I explained to him that it terminates when there are no more swaps, thus it falls through. So he marked it right.
This is what used to happen in high school when the only programming class that was available just barely covered the stuff you'd taught yourself 3 years previously, and you were bored by the first day. When we had to write Conway's Life, I made mine 3D. It was a real bitch to print out my results to hand them in, let me tell you. :)
d
One word (Score:2)
Around the middle of the last school year, a coupla geeks started the Computer Club. I walked in, figuring I might be able to teach them something about Linux. I was completely surprised to discover that there were five or six other guys who had been messing with Linux at home too! In a fairly large high school (2000+ students) there were a respectable number of real l33t h4x0rs, despite any particularly official teacher involvement.
Pretty soon, we taught the Tech Coordinator Linux, and after skipping a few days of school to read through a massive Red hat manual, we had the school Web page running on Apache (instead of a Mac) and a brand new RAID server with 256 MBs RAM, all running on Linux. Soon we had a FreeBSD server as well.
So what do you need to get Linux accepted in your school? ORGANIZE! Get all your Linux friends together, andd convince all your other friends to start learning. Found a club. Meet during lunch hour and after school. And get your teachers to dig Unices!
Good luck!
P.S.: If there are any Garfielders out there who wanna learn Linux, come to 312 at lunch and ask for Dan any time.
Re:Question (Score:2)
The reason for this is it forces you to focus on the fundamentals. What are your data structures? How to you manipulate them? How do you recognize a fast algorithm vs a slow one?
On the 500 MHz GUI with a fancy development environment, you don't have a chance of learning this -- there's too else going on.
As a professional, you need to worry about *everything*. But a student needs to focus on the fundamentals... and it's far easier to make a lasting impression by demonstrating the power of the correct algorithm or data structure with the slower hardware. E.g., code both a quick sort and bubble sort, then run the data on a set of data 20 times larger than used for testing. The quick sort finishes during the class period. The bubble sort is still running when students return to class the next day. These students will *know* that you can't just throw faster hardware at the problem -- the students can take the software home and run it on their 500 MHz P-IIIs... and see that the problem *always* occurs as the problem gets larger.
On your other question, about teacher credentials... It would be nice, but the official policy of the "education establishment" is that a teacher is a teacher not because of personal knowledge of the field - he's a teacher because he has a firm command of pedagogical principals and a cheat sheet that keeps him just ahead of the class. It's not unreasonable for the middle and bottom of the bell curve, but it prevents students with a natural aptitude (or independent knowledge) from developing their skills.
I don't know of any solution to this. I jumped straight from my junior year in high school to college - my school didn't have AP credits and I would have had independent study courses for five of my six classes. That was over twenty years ago, so don't be too confident that *your* kid will have it any better.
Re: Recursive bubble sorts (Score:2)
So, tell us, how *do* you write a recursive bubble sort? The only thing I can think of is replacing the iteration with tail recursion -- and that code should have been pretty clean even though the runtime performance would suck bigtime.
Re:Try the money angle (Score:2)
The money angle is something I have tried on the college I attend. They (the staff) are all for it. However the computer people are against it.
The problem is tech support. As a college/high school the computer techs say that ordinary students will not know how to use Linux and other open sourced software and could impede their grades as they (the students) do not have computers at home that run Linux. I then pointed out that quite a few students run Linux, I was told it would be unfair to those that don't because the computer programs that are used to created documents, powerpoint presentations and such are not "compatable" with current Linux programs 100%.
I think the fact that Linux can be as very cheap is nice, but without trained tech people and teachers, getting it installed at a high school is something of a near impossiblility. Needless to say the college did not adopt Linux because it would mean the retraining in of their staff and students they (the dean of tech) said.
I don't mean to be pessimistic but... I don't think you have much chance of getting Linux installed on your high schools computers unless you can convince the community (parents and others alike) that it is far better then windows... and that means educating a whole lot of people with no knowledge in computers at all (to the average non-geek high schooler - Linux is just a word if they have even heard of it)
On new schools or places that emphazize degrees that involve computers and such their is much more of a chance that Linux can get installed on some computers. New schools especially should be focused on because they are trying to save money when they build the school... so there is an extra chance.
Until Linux conquers the desktop world or becomes fully compatable with Win32 programs and files, putting it on computers in public places will be quite a task unless the population suddenly wakes up to the advantages of open source.
Article on Wired: "Open Source Opens Education" (Score:2)
Interestingly enough, right now Wired [wired.com] has an article [wired.com] about this topic running right now called "Open Source Opens Education [wired.com]", which mentions the Linux In Schools Project [k12.or.us]. The article gives several examples of high schools and middle schools that have made the move to Linux, and outlines several reasons for doing so (cost, stability, etc). There are also some good pointers to other sites.
Cthulhu for President! [cthulhu.org]
I have tried running Linux at school... (Score:2)
The point is, many schools will fear it, because they do not know anything about it. The best thing to do to for this situation, in my opinion, is to spread the word about Linux.
Re:Try the money angle (Score:2)
The solution for this type of thing is to set the computers up in a dual-boot, so they can still use the Windows hardware but you can get the educational benifits of Linux.
Incidentally, stressing the educational benefits of Linux to your teacher, especially in computer science, is another great way to convince him/her about how great Linux is. I mean in Linux, and open source software in general, you get to see exactly how everything is coded. Show a teacher, say GIMP and how it works, then show him/her the source for GIMP and he/she is liable to be impressed that you can actually look at the internals of such a complex program to learn how it works.
Now the next step is choosing a distribution... you can either pick one based on fame and news articles about it (that you can show your teacher) or use this as a way to get everyone hooked on your favorite distribution.
Oh, and I suggest you show everyone how to use .xinitrc to set up various window managers, and then make a few example logins using Gnome, KDE, WM, AfterStep, etc. so people can see one of the great things about Linux, ease of customization.
Good luck at school.
Try the money angle (Score:2)
1) It runs just fine on old hardware.
2) You don't have to pay software licencing fees for any applications, development kits or compilers.
As an added bonus (I suppose I'm cynical as to school's priorities these days) they'd be giving their students a leg up on the competition, since students could take anything they use at their schools home to their own computers, and experiment to their heart's content. That was one thing that I was disappointed about in my comp-sci courses in high school. I couldn't take a copy of the software home so I could experiment on my own.
Scary if this is a typical HS IS teacher (Score:2)
The "free" angle (Score:2)
Understand what the Free actually means though. You don't get any benefits from free if you buy packaged systems (even from VA - their hardware seems to cost just as much if not more than MicroTaxed boxen). Most likely, though, your school will maybe have an old box to try it out on. That's fine...Linux shines on old hardware.
it's like being a friend... (Score:2)
Been there, done that. It's kicks ass (Score:2)
One is a public elementary school(~800 students). The project here, I'm told, started because a local company donated a lab full of used computers to the school. The district tech department bas just going to dump it, becase it didn't fit into their plans.
The systems are Compaq P75's and P90's(all at 90Mhz) with their RAM upgraded to 64M. SoundBlaster Vibra16's and cheap PCI 10/100 NIC's(~$6-12 now) were also added.
The systems boot Debian GNU/Linux into a gdm login prompt. Once they login through gdm they get an icewm desktop. We're using icewm because it's small, fast, and comfortable. We run as much native(Linux) software as we can find, but the pickings are still a little slim. So, we have to use wine to run the windows educational software(It is an elementary school, you gotta have the educational software). The native apps run off the local harddrives(540M-1G), while the wine CD-ROM apps run over NFS, like the home direcoties, to the main server(PPro 200, 128M ram).
We just brought up another PPro 200 server yesterday. We hope to use it to handle the bulk(wine) data better through multi-daemon, read-only NFS.
Also today we figured out that the only reason we havn't had AppleTalk access to user data until now is the NIC in the server(s). We now have netatalk appearing to behave itself, on the new server. After a little more testing we'll let the teachers start using it, through the large quantity of Macs allready in the school.
It all works pretty good. The students walk in and sit down at a station, any station. They login and have access to all their personal data and preferences. Even better is that OpenSSH is running on each and every workstation. So we can administer each and every system without having to go to the school. With a little script, we can also send commands, like halt, to all of the systems with one commandline. It's really handy for bringing the lab down at night, and for maintanace. Not to mention that it's incredibly neat to watch the screens flicker down to the console to halt, in sequence, through the whole lab of 31.
To maintain homogeniaty, and sanity, in the lab we occationally reclone it. Meaning we update one system and do whatever work needs to be done on that systems, then copy it to the rest. Thanks to bootp there are no system specific config files
The other school is a charter middle school. It's conciderably smaller, and cleaner because of it. The lab itself is ten stations(Same PPro 200's), and a teachers station. With a big, scary, tree eating HP laser, and another PPro 200 server.
The server at the charter school handles the internal school homepage, the caching/filtering squid proxy, and print queuing. But that's just the boring stuff. It also serves the etherboot images for the lab, and
Sharing the NFSroot gains us a lot of things. Not the least of which is being able to replace harddrives in the machines with $3 EEPROMS. It also means there is one *1* system to administer. Run and apt-get dist-upgrade on one system, and the entire lab is brought up to date. And thanks to Network Block Devices each station has 128M of swap space, without any moving parts in the case.(Well, ok, the CPU and power supply fans still spin).
The entire network at the charter school is 10/100 switched ethernet(1 24port NetGear FS524). So, through the wonders of etherboot and NFSroot's the entire lab is ready and waiting at a tweaked gdm login in a little over a minute. Well, if you hit all the power strips on a once(we did to time it). The tweaked part of the gdm login is that it shows a picture of the classical composer that particular system was named after, using only the one shared config file.
The whole lab runs off of one IBM 9G LVD SCSI drive. We also took one of the existing 4.3G ide drives and put classical music mp3s on it to be played in class. The net connection is a DSL line, thus the squid caching is very important. It also gives us the oportunity to keep the students from wandering into places on the net that can get the school sued. Oh yeah, banner ads are just as easy to filter, or at least redirect to a 1x1 transparent gif.
Both labs work great. The second a little better because it's smaller and all new hardware.
I'm sure my cohorts can explain it a little better, and in more detail. They'll read this thread and answer any questions there might be. Anything I forgot, or just plain got wrong, etc.
- kimo_sabe
--
Programming is like sex; one mistake and you have to support for a life time.
Re:Some thoughts (Score:2)
The college [smsu.edu] I'm majoring in CS at (a fairly large state university) has precisely one UNIX/Linux box that I know of. It's an x86 running Red Hat 6.1, and only CS students can log into it. Furthermore, the machine is a fairly tightly-kept secret... a student or faculty member has to go ask a certain professor in person during his office hours in order to get a password. Why so secret? You tell me. I've never been able to get a satisfactory answer out of anyone.
Once upon a time, the campus network was (I believe) VMS, but about four years ago the switch was made to NT. With the exception of a few MacOS boxes in the open labs and a few Win9x boxes in faculty offices, everything on campus runs NT. Why sell all the terminals, switch to NT, and buy expensive PCs to replace every VMS term, when students have already been using VMS, and therefore could probably stomach Linux? Again, you tell me; I've never been agle to get a satisfactory answer out of anyone.
Re:What answer did she expect? (Score:2)
Probably commercial software, shareware and freeware.
(In my HS days I got asked to "Write any sort routine you want." I wrote recursive bubble sort. Teacher marked it wrong because he didn't understand my code.
Obviously not enough comments.
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Re:Some thoughts (Score:2)
The main positive (from the school's POV) point about the fact that GPL'd software is 'free' is that, by using it they can sidestep the whole problem of allowing corps like MS and Apple to use the school as a marketting tool.
The corps know that if they can get their product into the schools they are garunteed a market in years to come.
You should be aware that Apple (and later Microsoft) targetted the education market for precisely that reason. 'Get'em while they're young', so to speak.
Oft times the software selection criteria schools use is written with the 'help' of software sales reps. You should ask for copies of the software selection criteria for your school, and examine it with a critical eye.
The instructor is (usually) just parrotting back what the mandated 'training' courses (madated meaning the teachers are usually *required* to take them -- often at their own not inconsiderable expense) told them to they must teach. Note that these 'courses' are supported by Microsoft -- e.g. taught by a 'Microsoft Certified Professional', using 'donated' Microsoft software. These sessions are no more 'training' than television infomercials, but that's what they're doing...
Most CS courses are NOT intended to produce savvy computer users or programmers; they are intended to keep the school from looking bad. They need to be able to say 'Yes, we teach computer skills.' and they will do the absolute minimum they can get away with to be able to say that. Convince them that teaching Linux or BSD is easier than teaching Windoze, and you're done; they'll do it.
All in all, the schools should be ashamed of themselves for selling out the future to billionaire facists whose only interest in "education" is to keep their victims dumbed down enough to keep purchasing product. It is this kind of brainless, sheep-like behavior that will keep computing in the dark ages for the next 30 years...
Your real enemy (being a student forced to use inferior software) is (usually) the local (and maybe the state) board of education -- NOT the instructor. Instructors are frequently open to learning a bit themselves, if you handle it correctly. In general, school boards prefer to authorities on any given subject, and are unwilling admit they don't know everything. If this is your situation, you will need to enlist the help of other students, teachers, faculty, and perhaps the local news media, in order to accomplish anything.
Familiarize yourself with the rules that govern acquistions made by the school district. If you dig around in the charter and by-laws of the school board, you may find clauses that explicitly prohibition the use of the school system to pander commercial products to the students. For instance, you may find that they are prohibited from requiring you to buy some specific product in order to pass a course. Also, they should not be allowed to market brand-specific products to their captive audience (the students). (This last came up when cable television companies offered to install cable t.v. in public school classroom -- complete with ads for Coca-Cola(tm) and McDonalds(tm))
(tread lightly around this, it is a real sore point most times) You probably know more about computing and software than the instructor. I have seen this repeatedly in my children's classes. Don't embarass the instructor. If you do, you will never be forgiven, and your cause will be lost. Talk to them one-on-one.
If M$ or Apple has a stranglehold on computer education in your area, your best chance of success (imo) is through the courts, so don't do anything stupid that could be used against you (e.g. don't riot, and don't take over the computer lab in the name of The People).
Additional suggestion (Score:2)
This is a great way to get the teachers involved in learning something new, under the guise of it being your coursework.
Linux in Schools (Score:2)
However, there are two levels to this:
- Having some knowledge and not knowing that there is more to know
- Having enough knowledge to know where the holes are in your knowledge-base.
I'd just have assumed that when teaching technology, the teacher would be almost expecting people to come up with new things they've not heard of before. Maybe she didn't see licensing as technology, per se, so was surprised.I guess, just give her some URLs to read up on the GPL (http://www.gnu.org/ being the starting point, I guess!). At least that'll show her that it's not just you who'se loopy, but there are loads of us out here!
Steve.
Just do it. (Score:2)
We also tried to get funding. Our PTA asked teachers to submit proposals for grants up to $350. We sent in a request, but we were denied. The PTA said we were classified as an extra-curricular activity, and they only give money to teachers for in class purposes. So, basically we are a stand still right now, as we await our next opportunity to apply for a grant.
Setting this up depends on your teacher. My CS teacher is laid back and wants to learn about Linux. He let us set up the computer in his lab and always gives us support.
Hope this helps.
Within and Without (Score:2)
I was a research Ceramic Engineer for the longest time before I decided to quit to take a break from the real world and hide in the unreal world by teaching - and try to make a real difference.
Not to mention also go broke in the process (went from a 6 digit salary to a low 5 digit one. rather sad actually - but that's another point i'll tack on later)
In most schools, you have in general 3 major types - those who are in the know (5% if that), those who have an idea (25-45% depending on area), and those who have NO idea (50-70% depending on area). This is including faculty, staff and students. The ones who definately know whats going on, are either swamped out of their minds, or have better things to do than simply just try to upgrade or help things - because of workload and/or school 'culture' (I.e. Politics).
If any of you actually have not been in a school environment, I would suggest that you ask someone who's there at the moment - with whom you know has more than the marginal share of basic computer knowledge. They'll tell you that the bulk of their fellow classmates/teachers are computer illiterate, and ask insane amounts of 'no common sense' questions left and right about them because they cannot simply solve problems ON THEIR OWN! Common sense AND logic is severely lacking in many cases. Think back to your own high school career - how many teachers can you recall had that sense to really solve problems and questions on their own? How many have you forgotten that have not even done so?
now, having identified one major problem - people's inability to solve problems - lets move onto the 2nd major issue. Administrative perspective. Most of the administrative staff are overwhelmed as it is with their normal load of material. They also do not have a technical background - I mean, how many school admins do you remember and/or know that have a physical education background for crying out loud!! - to even remotely understand what linux can do for them. It is actually rather sad.
From a within perspective, you really have to hit the ones who actually know whats going on. And even then, you have to make sure you are not making them look bad or clueless - as most of them feel like masters of their domain - as they are treated as such by the non-techies. Make sure you have stuff you can show, material at hand they can look at. While a lot of schools these days have Internet access, most of the technical staff are swamped doing stupid stuff, ranging from trying to make sure systems are running (I.e. clueless people somehow managing to wipe out
From an without perspective - 'hit' the school boards and so on. Bring in ideas, show them how they can save money (mentioned earlier) by recycling older machines, downloading what they need, and making it all work by simply getting 2 or 3 people REALLY in the know - and not people barely qualified - in what they are doing.
In my case, I am ready to give up. I have sought to make a difference, but am hampered continuously by clueless and non-supportive administrative staff. With all the change of focus on students, I'm sure most of you will run into roadblocks somewhere, somehow - whether by politics (mostly), loopholes, self-interest, lack of funding, or whatever. It is rather a sad state of affairs.
I'll go back to doing nothing and getting paid big bucks for it, than trying to make a difference for people - because there is very little attitude towards REAL and positive change. They may talk the talk, but very rarely do they 1) ponder the consequences of the talk, and 2) actually give enough support/backbone to walking the walk.
-victor
Linux In School (Score:2)
Volunteer (Score:2)
GNU in school (Score:2)
Get a champion! (Score:2)
Re:football coaches teaching history (Score:3)
Advertising (Score:3)
Yes...you will be hard pressed to have a Macintosh or Linux server or workstation because "NT is what the kids are going to use in the Real World."
You will be defending yourself against idiots for monthes...no years...why?
Because MS has flooded teachers and administrators with advertising. "Where do you want to go today?" If you want something other than Windows...be ready to fight.
A few tips, but good luck (Score:3)
As someone who worked closely with a high school, its administration, and its tech staff I don't have a lot of promising advice. First and foremost, there's nothing you're going to be able to do on your own, directly.
That aside, get a teacher with you. Obviously, it's best to get one from the tech department of your school, and preferably someone who is actually teaching. The best would be a department head or someone with political clout in your school. Look for union people. Talk to them and get them interested.
If you want a course devoted to it, good luck but suggest they propose it. Most schools work in such a way that once a year (usually around this time) they take proposals from teachers for new courses and one gets selected for the year. If you want curriculum to include the GPL and free software, talk to the teachers who teach those classes, or the head of that department. COnvince them of your point of view first, then suggest the curriculum change.
All that being said, I'll reiterate that you don't have a good chance at getting anything done. Most schools technology programs are so pathetic in the first place. Many are merely token gestures to satisfy grant requirements and are taught by teachers who took a summer or night course and were told they were qualified to teach the course. Most of them aren't.
If you want, you could always try selling it to the schools IT department (if you have one). The arguments you use will change depending on the situation, but there are three key things to keep in mind.
First, support. Take some time and find out details (cost, response time, etc) for your school to get a support contract for Linux or whatever free OS you want to advocate. This is a HUGE issue for most school IT departments because typically they're run by people who used to be teachers but took some courses and got elected sys admin. For the most part they bank on support services.
Secondly, of course, cost. Schools love cheap. They're often so tightly funded that they spend large percentages of their budget on software and support. Then they get criticized because "look at all this money we give you, and where are the new computers?" Just a tidbit though, don't overly stress cost to administration if they look like they'll go for it. If administration think they can cut money from IT by doing something, they will and IT will be no better off.
And finally, of course, is stability, performance, etc. Be sure to mention it's ability to run on older hardware. A lot of schools, because of stupid regulations on state, federal and grant money, tend to have computers sitting collecting dust, or thrown in dumpsters. If they're NT/Netware shops stress stability and reliability. Particularly the "once you get it working, it doesn't break for no reason." (The netware admin at my school would love to hear this given the trouble he's been having with Netware 5.1 recently.) Also, compatability is a good touch to add in. Netware and NT both rely on proprietary technology and software for some of the things they do, particularly Netware.
Well, thats enough from me. Good luck. Feel free to email me with questions or whatever.
Regards,
Marcus
jghrfa@home.com
Re:Microsoft is a monopolist... (Score:3)
> It sucks for the admins, too, y'know. Most of >them don't want to be assholes, but it's sheer
> self defence.
You just need teeth. e.g., if you do any of those things, our netadmins *know* you did. And you're expelled from the school, fined (and/or your parents are fined), and you get a failing grade for the semester.
It can't just say that in the policy handbook for the school. It has to actually happen, even (especially) if you're the son of the principal or the captain of the football team.
Then you won't have two incidents of people stealing mouse balls or installing virii. You'd have one, the newspaper article about how they were expelled failed and fined prominently framed by the door to the lab, with the empty frame right next to it for the next moron who tries it.
If, as you say, a sysadmin must be a n@z! for self-defense, go all the way with it, or not at all. Otherwise you just create even more motivation for people to mess with you. (They know they'll get away with it.)
Push open standards, not necessarily Linux (Score:3)
Pick your battles. Many of the decisions made about computer equipment in a school district will be largely political. There will be a strong push to use ALOT of Microsoft technology simply because it appears to be a good business decision. Don't argue for particular items so much as general goals. Getting them to agree that a WinNT only network has less future than an open network would allow Linux machines to run along side MS boxes. This is much more worthwhile than convincing them that they need linux terminals with RedHat installed.
Make compromises. Everyone wants to see their input have affect, they don't want to see someone overpowering the group.
Back up opinions with other sources. Your crazy opinions aren't so crazy if they've been published elsewhere.
Good luck!
Oi (Score:3)
Re:Microsoft is a monopolist... (Score:3)
>all students are computer virus carrying know-
>nothings whose sole intent with respect to
>computers is to infect them with virii after
>using them to send death threats to government
>officials, find little kids to stalk, and look
>at hardcore porn.
Ever sysadminned in a educational environment? You're pretty much described the exact problems that anyone looking after computers in a school/university has to deal with.
You forgot setting up hardcore porn http/ftp servers, IRC hijacking, and stealing the fscking mouse balls.
If you're not a Nazi about your computer labs, then Very Bad Things tend to happen. As you say, it's a few people ruining it for everyone.
It sucks for the admins, too, y'know. Most of them don't want to be assholes, but it's sheer self defence.
Post her email address (Score:3)
Post her email address and let us all send her a brief message, complete with a copy of the GPL (or better yet, all common open licenses) and representative code.
When the school's mail server (or her personal account) collapses under thousands of messages containing tens of megabytes, the situation <b>will</b> change. But probably not to your advantage.
Unfortunately, the real question is the credentials of your teacher. Most teacher unions are extremely strong, and extremely exclusionary. (E.g., you have a master's degree and 20 years experience and you want to help out? Sorry, but the school system (and teacher's union) assert you are unqualified to teach the subject matter - but the 21-year-old who just got her education BS *is* qualified to teach the material. A few states are experimenting with "fast track" certification of domain experts, but they're the exception.)
Could the teacher have had strong CS exposure in college? It's possible, but the colleges of Education and Engineering tend to have very little overlap. Any C. Ed class using computers will focus on using them as teaching aids, not software development models. At most, the teacher might have had a year of "CS 101" -- and be considered an expert by her teaching peers.
Could the teacher have gotten her education credentials, worked in industry, then returned to the classroom? It's possible, but unlikely due to fiscal reality. An experienced coder will probably earn twice what most teacher makes. An experienced coder with technical leadership or management experience (who will actually be dealing with software licenses professionally) will make far more than most teachers. A few people will earn a nest egg then return to their first love, but software salaries aren't *that* high. (Stock options change that slightly, but it's still the exception.)
In other words, the teacher would probably be dismissed as a flake by any working software developer. This is why many of us have qualms about collegiate CS programs - and outright hostility towards secondary CS programs. If you're lucky, you'll learn the skills appropriate to a 70's era IBM 370 programmer - and you'll know it's a 30-year-old development model which is *not* followed today. More likely, you'll get a hodge-podge which makes no sense but makes it *far* harder for you to learn how software development is actually done.
Get someone to come in and speak to your class (Score:3)
There are probably many "established" professionals in your area who would be more than happy to come in and give a presentation on Open Source in general, or Linux in particular. Check for a local Linux users group [linuxjournal.com], or even a local branch of a related user group (like Perl Mongers [pm.org], for exaqple). Even if the presentation is just for the teachers, it would probably be well received. If you are in the Boston area, contact the FSF [fsf.org]. See the Linux User Group HOWTO [linuxdoc.org] for more info.
Cthulhu for President! [cthulhu.org]
Re:Advertising (Score:3)
Heh, that's exactly what my dad said when I told him I wanted to install Linux on our PC. I eventually got him to let me, but he was very steadfast in his belief that the linux skills I would gain by using Linux would have no use later on in life. Of course, to help solve this particular problem, you could should them all the Linux Jobs [linux.com] avaliable, plus the fact that Linux also gives valuable UNIX experiance which will also come in handy for a lot of jobs.
Showing the benefits of GPL (Score:3)
Namely, I would start with:
http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/philoso phy.html [fsf.org]
And then print out this article for your teacher as proof of the GPL, since {s/}he didn't believe you.
http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.ht ml [fsf.org]
http://www.fsf.org/copyleft/gpl.html [fsf.org]
Come on people, lets build up a collection of papers we can use to show the un-educated _WHY_ GPL software is better.
Cheers
Linux in the schools (Score:4)
You need to educate them the same way they educate you. Get together statistics about the usage of Linux and Apache. Put together a packet of information describing what Linux and free software is. Get a copy of the GPL and the LGPL, and find a good, non-technical description of what they are and why they are good. If you have a Linux system, arrange to demonstrate what Linux is and what it can to. You might even have an extra credit project here. Try contacting RedHat, VA Linux, Suse, and others and see if they have any literature they can send you.
Good Luck!
From the people who made Pi=3.0 (Score:4)
I'm not sure that there is anything you can do. First, in my experience, schools have very old computers- circa 1988. I learned to program on TRS-80s. I was told that Pascal was an ideal scientific language, and COBOL the language of business. They'd heard of C and C++, but considered it 'too difficult' (after COBOL, no less!) This is current as of the early 90's.
The old saying that 'those who can't do, teach' isn't usually true, I find. CS in public schools is one area where it is. If you want to be rewarded for doing a good job, not be bullied around by your union, get paid decently, not be micromanaged ridiculously by the state, and feel like you are actually accomplishing something, try the private sector.
Are there solutions? Yes, but they're out of the scope of your question. Your immediate problem is giving your teachers some clue about what has been going on in CS in the last 10-20 years. Which is virtually everything.
One possibility is to try to get the high school equivalent of a special topics class. Or a co-op program-- which some High Schools support. If these options aren't available, start a club. Especially in the Open Source field, you'll find programmers LOVE to talk.
If you want to push programming on the linux platform as the solution for your school, you'll have a tough sell ahead of you. Obvious selling points:
Free, works with hardware already procured and destined for trash.
Includes sample code (the source) and developement tools for dozens of languages (don't try to explain the differences between bash, Perl, HTML and C-- they won't get it.
Out of the box internet ready.
Procure it for a linux club first. If you have a teacher who knows linux already, you are in a very small minority. Just a machine or two for the geeks in your school. Do not use the word 'hacking' ever. EVER! Sure, it isn't cracking or illegal, but it raises a red flag. Present it as something to make and serve web pages with. Teachers like that and can get it quickly. Good computer teachers will appreciate the chance to dust off their C skills while watching normally uninterested students ooohing and ahhhing over the web page stuff.
If possible, make it part of something that is already budgetted (like programming classes or a club). Don't let them 'study' the problem-- that means they are waiting for you to graduate. Don't let them try to hire someone just for this-- they'll be cut out of the budget over the summer. Instead, keep it cheap, minimize teachers' time committments and keep a low profile.
Re:I fear it is impossible at a high school level. (Score:4)
If you are blessed and have a CS teacher that does neither, you have a chance. Otherwise, you are pretty much out of luck. Dealing with arrogant teachers is nearly impossible.
Lets write this another way:
CS students are generally either conservative or foolish. The conservatives rever what they used at home, often something along the lines of [insert favorite distro/util]. They are inflexible, and refuse to hear anything that goes against their ideas.
The foolish are followers of some particular trend. Some follow Linux like zombies, others check up on every BSD trend they see. Anything that does not follow this trend is bad and wrong, because what they do is obviously the right way. If you are blessed and have a CS student that does neither, you have a chance. Otherwise, you are pretty much out of luck. Dealing with arrogant students is nearly impossible.
I'm a CS student in university, and I see this all the time. Nothing irritates me more than the people in the classes who believe they know more than the professors, and insist on pointing out every last error they make, just to show how smart they are. Either that, or they take every opportunity possible to plug program Foo or BarOS. Not only does it irritate the rest of the class, but the profs as well.
Make sure this isn't you, and you'll go a lot further with this. Linux in the class is good, but my way or the highway is bad.
Participate! (Score:5)
As for raising awareness of the GPL, you can do it with words and with actions. Simply mentioning it in class is great. It's unfortunate that your teacher dismissed it as crack-pottery. A better educator would have been interested, and asked follow up questions, IMHO.
If you've got a big project to do for the class, and I'd hope you would, you could do one of several things. You could make something useful, and GPL it. This is nice if you don't have real options for choosing your project. Another option would be to find an OS project that interests you, and spec a specific module. Present the specification to your teacher as a project proposal. Include some good ol' fashioned OS propeganda in there for good measure.
If your teacher looked at you like you're crazy, it begs the question: does she know anything about Linux? Linux gets so much press these days I have a hard time believeing that somebody who's teaching a SD class hasn't even *heard* of it. Working from this, I'd assume she's heard some Linux hype, but doesn't know what makes it free software, exactly.
Aside from integrating your classwork and open-source development, you could go the talking route. Give her some URLs, and explain to her why you believe in Free Software. Discuss the educational oppurtunities - you can see the source! You want to know how to organize a large project? Look at the Mozilla CVS tree, or GIMP, or any other large project.
Maybe buy/burn her a Linux/*BSD disc or something.
Has she heard of Perl? Python?
Forget Money Angle, Get References! (Score:5)
I would recommend you find some schools using Linux and see if they'll talk to your school. I'd be happy to. Show them our site or Beacon School and then have them email us.
I would suspect that the reason you don't learn about Linux in the classroom is because your teacher doesn't know about it. Offer to do a presentation on it for extra credit or no credit at all. If the teacher turns you down, then you've found your problem.
We've been running Linux for about 3 years now and I couldn't be happier. Our students and faculty benefit from the increased services and especially the uptime! Linux has lowered cost and headaches.
Also, the first three weeks of my programming class are devoted to Linux. All assignments are done on the Linux server.
You could also start a LUG and get interest that way.
Good Luck!
Microsoft is a monopolist... (Score:5)
This is (IMHO) either the result of few ruining it for many, or several chain-linked knee-jerk reactions to exaggerated local news broadcasts. Of course, it's probably both.
Some thoughts (Score:5)
You will have several things to consider when informing your high school powers that be about linux and the GPL.
1. Microsoft and Apple have a considerable budget that they set aside for the wooing of public education. Because of this many teachers may have been taught certain things about linux that are no longer true.
2. In your favor most colleges use some form of unix. Most teachers have attended one of these colleges. Therefore somewhere in the back of their experiences they might remember unix. You could try to explain that linux is just a form of unix.
3. Obtain a copy of a standard GPL. Include it with any other information you choose to provide. Getting a factory printed GPL from a boxed distribution would probably be more impressive than just printing one out on a laser printer.
4. Teachers do not like to appear foolish in front of students. Most distributions include a technical support line for a certain number of days or months. Make sure that the teachers know they have somewhere to turn when the installation goes south.
5. Beware of talking about how you can "get it free on the internet". Teachers and schools are very cautious about anything to do with downloads from the internet. If the teacher is knowledgable then this should not be an issue but if that were the case you would not have written your letter.
6. Make them aware that an office suite is availabe for linux. Star Office comes with many distributions and it makes the transition from other office suites much easier. It also makes it posible to teach wordprocessing and spreadsheet operation using a linux system.
7. Telling the teacher that it is better because it is free might not have any effect because Microsoft and Apple may already be providing the school with free software. Choose other points in Linux's favor.
That is all I have time for now.
Good luck!
Dave Zimmerman dzimmerm@columbus.rr.com