VA Linux Systems Sends "The Letter" 200
synaptic was the first of several to note that "The Letter" offering Linux developers in on the VA Linux Systems IPO. Its a hefty 600k PDF file containing a prospectus, and a form to return to show interest. No word on how many people are getting the letter, but the rumors are that there will be quite a few.
No Canadians? (Score:2)
On the possibly-hopeful side, I'll have a working visa (H-1b or something like that?) by early January, and I'll be in San Francisco at my new job. Does this mean anything? I'd love to get in on this, but I'm afraid I may not be able to. *sigh*
US Only? (Score:1)
Re:US Only? (Score:3)
-Rasmus
Re:I want one (Score:1)
Remembering RedHat.... (Score:1)
Urgleburgle
Re:Remembering RedHat.... (Score:2)
Didn't Red Hat do the same? (Score:1)
Re:Too Bad I'm not one of them (Score:1)
I wonder.... (Score:1)
==============================
Fran Frisina (franf@hhs.net)
Yes, you can make money on the web!
http://www.zero-productions.com/money
Andover is an OpenIPO! No Letter. Anyone can buy. (Score:2)
OpenIPO: How It Works
OpenIPO is a new way to take companies public that opens up access to IPOs. Based on a Dutch auction system designed by Nobel Prize-winning economist William Vickrey, OpenIPO uses a mathematical model that treats a bid from an individual the same as a bid from a large institution. This means OpenIPO offering prices are set by the market. The result is a price that reflects what people are truly willing to pay for the stock and the likely allocation of shares to long-term investors rather than speculators.
As in a typical auction, the highest bidders win. But there are two important differences. In the OpenIPO auction, bidding is completely secret, and winning bidders all pay the same price-the amount of the lowest bid at which the deal can be completed. Access the sample auction which illustrates how it works.
Why I do NOT like this! (Score:2)
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than the others?
Also, now you will be getting people enhancing Linux not because it's cool, but because it's generously rewarded by every IPO-going company. Many open source projects will get abandoned. Resentment will grow...
Road to hell is paved with good intentions!
The word "woman" is no longer politically correct.
Company Profile (Score:3)
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
-Rasmus
Learning from RedHat's mistakes (Score:2)
Re:enlightenment (Score:2)
Chris (VA)
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:I wonder.... (Score:2)
I don't know how much money VA "needs", but with the amount they charge for their systems, they'll probably make it. I'll just be happy if they contribute back to the community, that's worth paying extra for...
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pb Reply or e-mail rather than vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Only 'cause Wall St. is on Smack (Score:5)
From one point of view, they're the oldest Linux OEM out there. They have pretty good sales and a decently growning market. On the other hand, they only sell Linux boxes. Because of this, they're missing out on a majority of the desktop and server markets.
Sane target price: $25.
Now, let's be realistic. They have the word "Linux" tied to their business plan, and every daytrader out there knows that Linux == Gold. I mean, look at RHAT (closed at 143 3/4) and COBT (129 1/2). Money money money money! Get rich quick! Buy now! The market will never go down, ever! Quick! Pass the crack!
Probably Target Price: $165
It's a sick, sick world.
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Does anyone else see a problem with this? (Score:2)
I just returned from Comdex, where I was suprised to agree with something Scott McNealy said. To paraphrase, he said Solaris is open source as long as you don't plan on making any money with it yourself, if you want to make money, then Sun wants a little piece. That seems reasonable, and I agree granting shares to open-source developers is better than giving the shares to the sharks on wall street, but I think we can do better.
Linus Torvalds was ecstatic at Comdex at how much money Red Hat is worth. I can't help but think this will only splinter the Linux distributions. Now the almighty buck will be in the back of many developers minds when they "contribute" to the Linux community.
I can see the Linux developer cliques starting now...
-DS
Re:Andover is an OpenIPO! No Letter. Anyone can bu (Score:2)
No need for a letter.
Yes, that's what my understanding was. The question then becomes: what does "The Letter" really gets you?
The only thing I can think of is that there might be an upper limit on the total number of participants, and the invitees get the first dibs. Nothing to do with the eventual share price, but the total number of participants might be limited.
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Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:2)
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Cool, though VA Linux may not be Y2K-compliant... (Score:1)
What about Corel Linux (Score:1)
Why do you think Corel's stock hasn't skyrocketed?
who's getting the letters? (Score:1)
Re:Only 'cause Wall St. is on Smack (Score:2)
Don't forget that ownership of a good DNS address doubles the companies value. I mean, that has to be pretty obvious doesn't it
I hope they send the letter to guy who sold them linux.com...
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
Re:Remembering RedHat.... (Score:1)
Apparently Red Hat took the heat for that, but since they skyrocketed, maybe we'll all forgive VA Linux and pretend this is standard.
600k, though? That's excessive. Especially for a file format that looks suspiciously like a zipped postscript file with some headers...
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pb Reply or e-mail rather than vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
A Worthwhile IPO amongst some questionable ones. (Score:2)
Good reasons to buy VA Linux:
- VA Linux are an established brand name in selling Linux-ready machines, in their own words "The Leader in Linux Servers and Workstations".
- They are effectively number one in selling a niche product.
- They have excellent products (They won Best New Hardware [linuxjournal.com] in the Linux Journal Editor's Choice Awards).
Compare this with the LinuxOne [linuxone.net] IPO:- Vapourware product. Only a beta available.
- Not original [theregister.co.uk] - based on RedHat 6.0 for Intel
- The functionality of their product LinuxLite [theregister.co.uk] which runs Linux off a Windows hard drive, is already within most Linux distributions just by using UMSDOS.
I know which one I'll be backing!J.
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:3)
Who says Linux isn't about the money? As much as you or I may like to live in our little Utopian universe where things don't cost money and people do things simply for the good of each other, for Linux to advance in the marketplace and achieve the kind success that everyone wants it to have, it's going to have be about money, and people are slowly coming around to this. Individuals and communities don't deal with corporations; corporations deal with corporations and most of the PC sales today (which desperately need stability and innovation like Linux provides) are in business, not home, not development
I would much rather have a whole slew of corporations make sure that their wealth somehow gets dispersed to the very community that creates to the product and call it a 'trend' than have a whole slew of corporations that take the community's product and give nothing back. As far as I'm concerned, something like this should be required. Don't look at it as the companies doing something special, look at it as the companies doing something proper. Then maybe you'll recognize why these 'letters' (of which I've never gotten one and probably won't ever get one) are so valuable to the sustaining of Linux development as a community.
Redhat didn't establish a special moment. They established a precedent and I like this because it means other companies are following that precedent.
Re:What about Corel Linux (Score:3)
Re:Andover is an OpenIPO! No Letter. Anyone can bu (Score:2)
IPO Underwriters suck (Score:1)
This is f*&cking absurd. They aren't "up" $108 points. The Underwriters bought the shares from Cobalt at $22/share and turned around and sold them for $130/share. Do you think Cobalt would have said "no, we only want $22/share, you keep the rest" if they'd known the opening price?
I thought companies go public to make themselves come capital, not to make some greedy underwriters rich. I'm all for underwriters making themselves some cash, but I think there should be limits on how much the underwriters can charge over the IPO price. Either that, or they should be forced to disclose the opening price to the company, who can then better negotiate an IPO price.
Bah.
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
Re:What about Corel Linux (Score:2)
Just released a Linux distro that everyone seems to agree is the easiest ever to install and use. Will be using that distro to try and create a market for their Office Suite (which they will actually sell for, ya know, money). So, not only do they have a pretty keen distribution, a currently profitable business and a stock of desktop apps with recognizable names like "QuatroPro" and "Word Perfect", but they also have a plan for making actual money with their Linux distro. Now, to be fair, their CEO is also facing insider trading charges and they've had serious debt problems in the past. Until this year, they were not routinely profitable. We can assume that investor confidence is still somewhat rightly on the low side.
Sane Target Price: $22, up to $30 or $35 as confidence is re-earned and sales rise.
Now, let's be realistic. Their Linux has only been out a few days, and they've already risen something like 50%. But, it doesn't say "Linux" in their business plan and they aren't losing money! Worst yet, a couple of Wall St. firms said a year ago that they're between a "Sell" and a "Hold"! And, oh no! They're not a dubious IPO! Stay away from that sucker! And pass the crack! Quick!
Probable Target Price: $14
Seriously, though, Corel's not a bad long term buy (you Wall St. newbies understand "Long Term", right? It means you don't treat Wall St. like it was a roulette wheel). It seems to me that they've gotten past their debt problems and that Cowpland will probably beat the insider trading charges.
Most importantly, however, is that Corel isn't (yet) an insanely over-valued tech stock. You must know that this sort of thing can't go on forever -- companies that have never made money and who are facing at best razor-thin profits are not safe long-term buys.
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Re:Andover is an OpenIPO! No Letter. Anyone can bu (Score:1)
A word about dutch action: because of the way it is setup, you will not see wild price swings. For those who want to make some quick money, dutch action is not the place to find it. (anyone remember Salon dutch auction IPO? The stock opened at 10 and closed at 10.50.) A major reason for the development of dutch auction was to reduce these wild price swings.
How IPOs work: the underwriter and the company each get a certain amount of shares they can have at the opening price. The company distributes its shares anyway it likes ("friends and family" list). The underwriter usually presents the opportunity to its most active traders and best customers.
One thing to keep in mind is to sell ASAP. It is a rare exception for a company to maintain its first day close. Usually, the price slowly levels off to a reasonable amount over the course of a few weeks following an IPO. So get out while you're at the top.
For those who didn't get "the letter" (including me) and don't have million dollar accounts, you can try to get in on the deal with some online brokerage firms. (Etrade, for example) But they really frown upon those who sell the same day and penilize you in one form or another (usually, by making it harder to get on another IPO in the future). But if this is a one time deal for you, go for it.
My two cents.
Re:Why I now _DO_ like this! (Score:1)
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Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
Ditto that.
I've written a fairly well used web application to which I've dedicated ridiculous amounts of time over the past year and a half. I also taught a free, semester long course on Linux, which was a huge effort on my part. I didn't do either to get rich, and both efforts have been rewarding in and of themselves. But I do get a little bitter when I read about people like the above, who've done either nothing or very little to futher free software and are receiving great benefits nonetheless.
I'd definitely feel better if I knew how these decisions are being made. Perhaps even a place I could say "Hey I've done a lot of work for Linux and free software. How do I get considered ?"
E-Trade again? (Score:2)
Nonetheless, the problems with the Redhat IPO have already been addressed.
-d9
How much BSD code is in the kernel? (Score:1)
Where else in the system might you find BSD code? csh, man, etc?
If BSD developers are credited, do IPO offers go to the Regents of UCB?
No, of course not.. that would like talking to the FSF about GPL'd code. Forget that.
Debian Bigots? Where are they? (Score:1)
Where are all those debian bigots badmouthing about RedHat's supposedly spamming them?
Or maybe, they didn't get the letter???
Or was it just that it was RedHat!
Re:who's getting the letters? (Score:4)
- ...Contributor lists from major Linux or related open source projects. These projects included Debian, KDE, GNOME, GTK+, Python the GIMP and many others.
- ...VA has a number of Linux Community members in it's ranks, they were asked for their input.
The lucky recipients have a chance at buying exactly 100 shares at the IPO price, without the hassle that E*Trade insisted on -- no background checks or investment savviness questionaires, just fill out the enclosed form. If you get in, send them a check later....The NASDAQ symbol is LNUX. :-)
Re:WHEN IS ANDOVER SENDING OUT THE LETTER!?!?!? (Score:1)
What I wouldn't do for a few thou (Score:2)
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
-Rasmus
Re:E-Trade again? (Score:1)
What a Steal (Score:1)
Seriously, the stock market has gotten WAY out of hand. Look at Red Hat: These guys have annual sales of $7 million. They have never turned a profit and are not expected to any time in the near future. Their main buisness is distributing free software. Despite all this, their market cap is $9 BILLION. Fsckin insane.
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
I was, but I obviously misunderstood. I apologize.
I obviously have some lingering resentment over the redhat IPO, in which lots of people reported getting letters from redhat after only submitting a bug report or two, if that.
There's obviously no perfect way to do a thing like this, and I do think making an honest attempt at doing it fairly is better than no attempt at all. But I'm still left feeling a bit like I've been slapped in the face a couple of times now. Doubtless lots of other people are feeling just the same.
Re:No Canadians? (Score:1)
what exchange are they taking it on? it seems odd that Canajuns would be shut out. i'm working on an ipo for Nasdaq small caps and i'm in Alberta.
good to see a uvicker on
: )
______________________________________________
$which weed
How do I get in? (Score:1)
VA has turned into a great company from what I've seen, and my personal opinion is that it would be a very good investment.
Rich
How and IPO works (Score:2)
Anyway, the Company decides they want to raise some capitol. They decide how much of their company they want to sell off, or they decide how much capitol they want. They have some Underwriters come in who audit the business. These Underwriters say, "Hey, I like what you've got going here. Here's what our experts think your company is worth." The Company says, "Cool, I'll give up 10% of that" The Underwriters say, "Okay, that comes to 4.4 million shares at $22 bones each" The Company says, "Cool, I'm comfortable with that."
See, the Underwriter buys these 4.4 million shares at $22 bones a pop from the Company. They are assuming a risk that each one of those will be at least worth $22. If they opened at $50, and nothing sold, and took it all the way down to $10 before it did sell, they would loose a lot of money.
Take LinuxOne as an example. They are Underwriting themselves. Most likely because they are painfully aware that no self respecting financial institution would Underwrite them. They are hoping to issue some paper on a valueless company, get some suckers, and make off with some cash. Obviously I'm oversimplifying, but they are bogus.
So, Cobalt and Redhat may loose out of maximizing the potential of the %'s they gave up to the Underwriters. But, remember, what they held onto also has sky rocketed some 600%. That is why they are potentially worth billions.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Score:3)
Someone moderate that post 'Funny'. Sir, your suggestion that E*TRADE is going to underwrite this IPO is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. I can assure you that VA Linux was definitely in the loop, and they are acutely aware of the spectacular results of E*TRADE's last venture in underwriting a Linux-related IPO. In fact, I have a link somewhere to a CNET interview, which happened shortly after RHAT started trading, of VA Research tactfully promising to "avoid" the same mistakes.
I'm pretty confident that nobody in the Linux world will want to have to do ANYTHING with E*TRADE, for a long, long time.
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Re:IPO Underwriters suck (Score:1)
Its not like an individual Linux developer could ever raise cash for developement by him/herself through an IPO normally. Joe Developer with component X patches in the kernel files for IPO and gets enough investors to know about it to make the IPO sucessful? I don't think so.
Question on this IPO (Score:1)
Re:Why I now _DO_ like this! (Score:1)
Let's see if it works for me. My credentials aren't as impressive as yours, but I paid Alan Cox to fix NFS on Linux so it worked with 64-bit NFS... (under SGI) Umm... I'm writing RPM Explorer....
See what money does to us?
anybody wanna send me their letter? (Score:1)
Nice one (Score:1)
A simple pointer to their web site would have been sufficient.
Re:enlightenment (Score:1)
That said, I don't see that happening.
Chris (VA)
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
What does it takes? (Score:1)
Justen Stepka
http://www.ruptime.com
What determines if you get the letter? (Score:1)
-Chris
Re:Why I now _DO_ like this! (Score:1)
Honestly, I don't know how many lines of linux kernel code I've written -- I've never bothered to count. I, like many, have worked with Linux for years; and I've speced VA hardware for several projects -- one has been using the same pair of PPro200 boxes for 3+ years.
Not knowing how VA has collected the names and/or e-mail addresses, it's possible some people get "passed over" 'cause they cannot be found. Do you know what my e-mail address is? (*grin* No, it's not foo@bar.com) Altho' I'm not entirely hidden -- someone looking for a Linux kernel programmer/instructor managed to locate me via old linux-kernel archives
Personally, I'd be more willing to fork over my money to support VA than I would for RedHat. I just have an aversion to people making money off everyone elses work. (In fact, RedHat has a history of messing with the code for the stuff in their distribution(s) -- esp. the kernel.)
Re:Does anyone else see a problem with this? (Score:1)
Re:enlightenment (Score:2)
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Re:WHEN IS ANDOVER SENDING OUT THE LETTER!? (OT) (Score:1)
Re:Only 'cause Wall St. is on Smack (Score:1)
I think he was paid about a million dollars. He probably got it for 70 bucks (or for free before 1993). He has been paid well enough.
If I recall it was an active linux develpor, so he might have got the letter anyway.
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
Proselytizing for Linux (Score:1)
T'would be nice...:-)
Too many whiners.... (Score:5)
No one has a "right" to a gift. No one is "owed" a gift. If you get a gift, be grateful. If you don't, be grateful for all the things you do have.
Neither RedHat, nor VA should ever have to explain *why* they chose the people they did to get the letter. They've done the best the could to identify they people they wanted, for whatever reason, to give thanks to. Obviously this effort cannot be perfect. Some people will be left out. Deal with it.
And stop acting like a damn spoiled child!!!
Re:Only 'cause Wall St. is on Smack (Score:2)
To the contrary, their devotion to Linux has got them to where they are today. If they also supported NT, NetWare, and SCO, they would just be another high quality screwdriver shop with integration services, and without 'community' support, and they probably wouldn't be going public.
However, putting down my crack pipe, this does worry one in the long term. While VA might be a great vendor for smaller shops who are aware of their reputation among Linux users, do they have any chance against Compaq, IBM, HP, and Dell in the larger corporate market? These huge companies are already gearing up their Linux support, and VA isn't going to be differentiated for very long.
And yes, it's great they do Linux development work. However, this is overhead that put them at a comparative disadvantage to other computer makers that just pass the licence costs on to the customer. I certainly didn't get the letter, but I would be a little wary buying this stock.
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Re:How do I get in? (Score:1)
If it's with the underwriter underwriting the ipo then no problem, if it's another underwriter then they could pull off getting pre-ipo shares for you. All assuming you have enough assets to facilitate this.
Just another shining example of how the rich get richer - god bless the usa.
Re:No Canadians? (Score:1)
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
Re:who's getting the letters? (Score:2)
Re:What does it takes? (Score:1)
Re:No Canadians? (Score:2)
His location could of been better
To California he moves
His career hell not lose
But his eligability will no longer matter
In California hell soon be broke
But in our culture he will soak
A trip down the streets
Some coffee from Pete's
And his only concern will be mocha
Restating for those who missed the AC score 0... (Score:1)
Er... wait... what time is it in Germany right now?
Countries (Score:2)
Re:No Canadians? (Score:2)
My conditions are a bit more complicated, since I am currently a Canadian resident but am also a US resident alien for tax purposes; when I asked them (just no by email; quick response), they said it should be no problem and to try sending the forms in. I would recommend trying it. Nothing to lose except the cost of a fax.
It's a free market, braddah! :) (Score:1)
Take Salon.com, for instance. If I remember correctly, their stock price went down after the IPO. The underwriter very likely took a bath on that one.
Just the ups and downs of a truly free market.... :)
Re:How and IPO works (Score:1)
There is a difference between the opening and the IPO price. The company sets the IPO price. The Underwriter sets the opening price.
The Underwriters are naturally seeking to maximize their investment.
Some quick math.
Company has 100 million shares and is worth $10/share, or $1billion
Decides it wants $100 million in capital, so it makes a public offering of 10% of it's stock. That's 10 million shares, at $10/share.
Underwriter spends $100million on these shares, turns around and sells them on the secondary market (that's to you or me) for $150/share. Now all the sudden the company is worth $15billion.
The company has made it's $100million, but the Underwriters (assuming they actually sold all 10million shares, has made $1.4 billion.
Where did the $140 increase come from? Not from you and me trading... but from the -opening- price on the -first day- of trading. Noone got to buy shares anywhere between $10 or $150. Either you're an employee, friend of the company, and get them at $10 (or less) a share, or you're a regular investor type and you get them for $150/share.
I don't know about you, but this bothers me. Underwriters are nothing more than loan sharks.
good effort for international individuals (Score:1)
yes, this is bullshit (Score:1)
Preach it!! (Score:1)
You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people none of the time, and all of the geeks & hackers.... what do you think this is, a fantasy world?
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I post, therefore I'm spammed.
Im Bitter (yet another complaint) (Score:1)
Coders only, or advocates too? (Score:1)
--
Deepak Saxena
Re:Why I do NOT like this! (Score:1)
Looks like spam from here, though... (Score:1)
Most importantly, the letter is *ONE MEGABYTE*. Not okay. I doubt they really needed a 600k PDF, but if they did, they shoulda emailed a URL.
in that case (Score:1)
Can anybody post the letter who got it? (Score:1)
The VA letter wasn't nearly as bad as RedHat's. (Score:1)
You're right, t's not flame; it's flamebait. And I'll bite.
RedHat did spam me; it spammed many (but not all!) Debian developers. It spammed email addresses clearly outside of the USA as well. What's this about supposed spamming, hmm?
There are many reasons I was more upset by the RedHat spam than I was by the VA spam. One is that RedHat sold (or gave) our email addresses to an organisation that promptly re-sold said addresses. After the RedHat spam, I received and am still receiving spam after spam after spam at an email address that was up to that point almost spam-free. Another is that RedHat didn't bother to filter non-US addresses before spamming with information that was clearly US-only, something that you'll recall caused a great uproar. Yet another is that RedHat spammed what is, to RedHat the corporate entity, their competition; that's very dirty in my book. Comments about RedHat's community involvement and the Open Source Community are unimportant here; the corporate entity doesn't sell RedHat boxes to Debian users, remember, and that's what shows up on their bottom line. There are more points, but I'll leave it here for the moment. I'm replying to flamebait, after all.
How do I feel about VA Linux's spam? Well, that Canada wasn't on either "allowed" list irked me. Then again, they -- and I mean both VA itself and the underwriters here -- didn't spam me at a nationally-affiliated domain, so it's not their fault that they didn't know that I'm not elgible. And they are not in competition with any organisation I'm affiliated with. Even that alone puts VA in my good books.
Spam is spam, but this one's not quite as bad.
I got 'the letter' (Score:1)
I know where they got my address (CPAN). It looks much like spam, honestly. I don't really understand why they felt the need to 'push' it onto us, instead of having us grab it from the site. On top of that, I'm apparently not eligible for it, being in France.
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How do I know if the letter is authentic????? (Score:2)
But I'm skeptical. How do I know if it's authentic? Yes, I've helped develop a number of open source applications, but I never thought that I'd stand a chance of making "the cut".
Is there someone I can contact at VA Linux? Or can I somehow look myself up in a list online? Has anyone else attempted to verify their letter?
This is bad... (Score:2)
Sure, its because of jealousy and greed, but I'll be honest and admit to it. I'm still pissed off I got boned on the RedHat thing, while in total friends and aquantences I know (and largely pushed to get involved with Linux) are collectively sitting on over a million dollars in Linux stock. The numerous bug reports sent to RedHat meant nothing. The fact that one of their primary distributers would have never heard of them if I hadn't been pushing it as something worth selling meant nothing.
Its changed now. When I want to GPL and contribute code to the community (or patches, bugfixes, features, etc...) I can't help but think twice now. I never once had a problem with someone taking something I wrote and packaging it and selling it for greater convenience and ease of use for end users. But making billions of dollars in virtual cash because of inflated stock prices where my hard work is involved, and I am unable to experience those gains myself? That's something totally different. That just sucks.
Re:WHEN IS ANDOVER SENDING OUT THE LETTER!?!?!? (Score:2)
Half the time it's the writer who doesn't put in the thought, half the time it's the reader. I've also noted by your karma (-2) that you don't seem to have much in the way of writing ability either, making your entire contribution to the community largely negligible, and thus making you a hyppocrit. Not to attack you on a personal level, but you've offered no practical arguments to defunk.
Why that is (Score:2)
Well feel free (Score:2)
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Re:This is bad... (Score:2)
Perhaps, but if so, it will only be the jealous ones like you.
And stripped of hyperbole, what you're saying is that you know around 20 people who were able to buy no more than 400 shares, and are now sitting on around $50,000 each if they sold at the right time ($30,000 after taxes.)
And you're jealous because they got lucky and you didn't.
Sounds like a personal problem. You are the one bringing the profit motive into this. You are the one who is letting money make your decisions for you, instead of doing what you enjoy, or what you think is ``right.''
Uh, who made billions?
If you think that sucks, then you fucked up!
If you contributed code under the GPL, and didn't realize that the GPL explicitly allows people to make money off of your work then you didn't think it through! Or you didn't read the license at all. Either way, it's your own damned fault, and if you wanted to make sure that nobody made money off of your work without paying you for it, then you should have put a license on your work that said that, instead of one that loudly says exactly the opposite.
Wake-up call, people: GPL doesn't prevent people from making money off of you. If you're so profit-motivated that this bothers you, pick a different license.
Re:ESR is getting rich (Score:2)
Of course, his wife may have to give him the cash to MAKE.MONEY.FAST, but that's a side issue.
(Incidentally, I got "the letter" and then "the headers of the letter," the latter addressed to my debian.org addy... anyone else get hit the same way?)
Re:No Canadians? (Score:2)
In the specific case of Marc (or any other Canadian working in the U.S.), I think if you have a SSN/TIN and a U.S. address they'd have no way of knowing you aren't a U.S. citizen. Like Marc says, there's no harm in trying.
Re:Debian Bigots? Where are they? (Score:2)
Those "debian bigots" (nice example of literacy there, bub) were rather mixed on the whole issue. Several well-known anti-spam people refused to even consider participation, because of the unsolicited spam.
My personal take was that (a) the only complete copy of the IPO thingy came to my non-debian.org address (I think because I've submitted patches to Python and/or am part of the Python Software Activity), (b) I could really use the money, and (c) frankly, I don't mind spam all that much. I delete most of it, and sometimes it's vaguely entertaining. Most of my spam goes to my yahoo.com address for some odd reason. Oh, and I was a little miffed after being left out of the Red Hat IPO, so was really just relieved that VA hadn't forgotten about lonely old me!
(Personally, I don't have anything against RHAT; in some respects, like their use of Python [which a lot of Debianites have a twist in their panties about... witness pissiness I get about reportbug on occasion], I think they've put together a great product. More power to 'em.)
What happened... (Score:2)
Yeah, we missed 1 or 2 bug lists /lug lists. It was bound to happen. When it happens, we've foudn that many of the people qualified anyhow, hence the phone call. I'm in florida for thanksgiving, but I'm goign to give a further once over on these on monday.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems.
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:This is bad... (Score:2)
1) Its not jealousy. Its opportunities being offered in a non-equitable way. Its not that I didn't get any stock, its the fact that people who have contributed less did. That's inequitable.
2) Its actually four people with that stock, not 20. But that's neither here nor there.
3) The collective owners of RedHat, for one.
4) I most certainly didn't fuck up. If I had an issue with it, I would have never contributed to it. My point is the inequitable distribution of the opportunity to people under the guise of "compensation" when it was really a luck-of-the-draw among people who's names got pulled out of some database query. If they said a few thousand people would randomly get choosen, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. That's not what they said though.
To Buy or Not to Buy (Score:2)
Lots of people are going to need to decide whether they are going to pony up a minumum of $1,100.00 to buy shares in VA. Be sure to follow their instructions and READ THE PROSPECTUS before you agree to buy the shares.
And to protect myself from the lawyers, I need to tell you that I am not offering financial or legal advice. I'm just some schmuck who has thoughts to share. All are offered as-is with no warranty, etc. etc.
The S-1 Filing [sec.gov] for the company is available online. Note that they also have a number of S-1/A filings online.
Here are some thoughts on the company:
Thankfully, VA has a fairly good revenue stream ( 1998: $5,556,000.00 1999: $17,710,000.00 ) however, when one looks at the cost of revenues it also goes up, and in fact goes up disproportionately. ( 1998: $4,494,000.00 1999: $17,766,000.00 ).
This means that while VA had a pretty good gross margin in 1998, they actually went negative for 1999. Not a good trend.
The "gross margin" they mean here is how much they earned or lost by producing their product. A company can never be profitable until the gross margin is positive. When the gross margin is negative, the company is losing money on each unit sold. When the gross margin is positive and the company sells enough units they will make a profit, what being in business is ultimately about.
One has to wonder what happened that the gross margin went from $1,062,000.00 in 1998 to -$56,000 in 1999. Why did the cost of revenues go up so much?
Deutsche Banc Alex requires you to send funds within three days of the IPO to cover your positions. Additionally, they take 10 days to wait for your check to clear. You may not transfer the shares to any other broker until your check has cleared. Note that they do not appear to offer online trading, and only have a single non-800 number listed to trade shares. They will only accept market orders (e.g. sell at any price) for the first day. All this for the low, low commission of $53.
The prospectus says it best:
We have a history of losses and expect to continue to incur net losses for the foreseeable future.
We incurred losses of $14.5 million in fiscal 1999 primarily due to expansion of our operations, and we had an accumulated deficit of $29.9 million as of October 29, 1999. We expect to continue to incur significant product development, sales and marketing and administrative expenses, particularly as a result of expanding our direct sales force. In addition, we are investing considerable resources in our professional services organization and our Internet operations. We do not expect to generate sufficient revenues to achieve profitability and, therefore, we expect to continue to incur net losses for at least the foreseeable future. If we do achieve profitability, we may not be able to sustain it.
No plans to make money into the forseeable future? Ouch. Now you know one reason why IPOs are considered risky. If their cost of revenues (which does not include administrative, sales, marketing, etc. costs as far as I know) does not come down, they'll be unable to make money even if they "generate sufficient revenues".
We rely on Synnex as our single source contract manufacturer. If Synnex is unable to meet our manufacturing needs or our relationship terminates, we may lose revenues and damage our customer relationships.
So VA's server business (which in an earlier risk was mentioned to be 59% of their fiscal 1998 revenues and 88% of their revenues in the quarter ending October 29 1999) is completely tied to Synnex. Who's Synnex? Are they a stable company? Any risks associated with Synnex would naturally be inherited by VA due to this single-supplier arrangement.
If the Linux developer community fails to support us or reacts negatively to our business strategy, our business will be harmed.
The third parties in the Linux developer community, upon whom we rely to develop and maintain a majority of our software, may not continue to support us, our product promotions or our corporate or operating decisions. If we lose the support of these third parties, we would be forced to rely to a significantly greater extent on our own development efforts, which would require us to hire additional developers and increase our development expenses and could adversely impact product release schedules. In addition, negative reactions of third parties in the Linux developer community could harm our reputation, diminish our brand and result in lower net revenues.
Hmmm... they must read Slashdot as well. ;-> I personally don't think this is a significant risk, but yes, it's there.
And speaking of irritating the developers, how about this little tidbit:
We may not be able to use intellectual property to protect ourselves from competition.
Our systems consist primarily of commodity hardware components in combination with the Linux operating system. While we have developed some proprietary techniques and expertise, most of our activities and systems are not protectable as proprietary intellectual property and may be used by competitors, harming our market share and product revenues. To protect our intellectual property, we generally enter into confidentiality or license agreements with our employees, consultants and corporate partners. We have also recently commenced a patent program and to date have filed one patent application. In general, however, we have taken only limited steps to protect our intellectual property. Accordingly, we may be unable to use intellectual property to prevent other companies from competing with us. In addition, we may be unable to prevent third parties from developing techniques that are similar or superior to our technology, or from designing around our copyrights, patents and trade secrets.
This is to be expected from any Open Source company. Hopefully the GPL will be deemed enforceable in a court of law which will limit the ability of competitors to compete unless they too assume this risk.
And yes, the doubts on enforceability of the General Public Licence were also listed as a risk.
You will experience immediate and substantial dilution in the book value of your shares.
The initial public offering price is substantially higher than the book value per share of our outstanding common stock immediately after the offering. Accordingly, if you purchase common stock in the offering, youwill incur immediate dilution of approximately $10.41, assuming an initial public offering price of $12.00 per share, in the book value per share of our common stock from the price you pay for our common stock. For additional information on dilution of the book value of your shares, see "Dilution."
It's pretty common to have significant dilution as part of an IPO, but the magnitude of this dilution is enough to give one pause. Keep in mind that you'd be paying $11-13 for something only worth approximately $1.59.
Of course, if you're just in the mood to gamble, this is as good as any. However, this could be a great opportunity to take a look at a company's financials and really try to decode them. You'll find that it's not that much harder than picking through some ugly perl script once you know how to do it, and it can be much more profitable... ;->
Any other thoughts on the soundness of this company?