AOL Trademarks nixed 95
Robert Wilde writes "A small dose of sanity in the world of trademarks, according to a ZDNN story; the courts have ruled AOL doesn't own "You've got mail," "IM," or "buddy list." " So, I suppose that means my copyright for "E-Commerce Solution" and "E-mail" is probably out as well.
Re:Argh! (Score:1)
weird trademarks (Score:2)
Re:good... (Score:1)
Apple are as bad as anyone (Score:1)
hardly people who should complain about bogus IP claims.
These are the people who sued MS for using an approach to HCI
that apple had copied from Xerox . They are probably the
worst offenders in terms of dubious IP claims of any high tech
company, and that's against some some pretty tough competition".
Trademarking plain language makes no sense to me. If you want a
trademark, invent a word.
Although, maybe MS should be entitled to
"Where are we going to take you today"
Re:Barry was quoting a founder. (Score:1)
:)
Point is still the same though
timothy
Agreed (Score:1)
Re:News flash (Score:1)
"What's your problem?" (Score:1)
Everytime I go to their website, I can't help but giggle at such a friendly slogan
;-)
YS
First use of "Instant Message" term (Score:1)
Question for you.... (Score:2)
:) -- Smiley not trademarked
It happen to Cyrix too (Score:1)
Re:Wait a minute (Score:1)
Re:more informative url: (Score:1)
Re:trademarks (Score:1)
Cool! Join my new "You've got mail IM buddy list" (Score:1)
Way offtopic... (Score:1)
Re:It happen to Cyrix too (Score:2)
Besides, it's not that Lucas was pissed off. It's that "Jedi" is a trademark in itself, and if you do not protect a trademark
Re:It happen to Cyrix too (Score:1)
Re:Wait a minute (Score:1)
Apple trademark of "Trash"? (Score:1)
I believe both the KDE project and Corel Linux were asked not to use it, and are now considering using Dumpster instead...
Seems to me that if "You've got mail" doesn't hold up, then Trash is a really silly trademark!
Off-topic grammar question (Score:1)
recently started referring to corporations as
plural entities? Suddenly I'm surrounded by
phrases such as "Apple are as bad as everyone"
Has it always been this way, and I'm just in the
dark? The Economist using the "American"
usage of a corporation as a single entity, so I
don't know what to think.
Not a grammar rant, just a query.
Re:Apple trademark of "Trash"? (Score:1)
Re:News flash (Score:1)
Re:Wait a minute (Score:1)
"Windows"
:)
'Web Space' is trademarked in Germany... (Score:1)
Also 'Site Promotion' is trademarked.
good... (Score:1)
i guess we can only hope that the justice system doesnt get screwed with extremist appointees... i think that there are going to be a large amount of privacy and free speech debates. we definately need some strict constitutionalists in there...
oh yeh - do you think that my trademark attempt on "first post" will hold up?
News flash (Score:5)
Today it was also discovered that, contrary to popular belief, Microsoft Corp. does not own the trademarks to "General Protection Fault", "Fatal Exception Error" or "Please restart your computer".
more informative url: (Score:3)
Cross your fingers - Patents next? (Score:1)
trademarks (Score:1)
So now I suppose I can start up a content providing business and call it "NAOL" (North America Online" or "WOL" (World Online) and add in a nifty little program called NIM or WIM which has a "buddy list"? And when people get email, a nice happy voice of a guy from Orville can tell you "You've got mail!" Think of the possibilities...
You forgot.... (Score:2)
Good. (Score:4)
Now I don't have to add: "the phrase 'You've got Mail' is a registered trademark of America Online, Inc." That kinda annoyed the family.
What about the people who don't know how to use proper punctuation? The ones who say "Im going to the mall." Do they have to pay AOL for the use of the term "IM"?
/SARCASM
Although this brings up an interesting point....Did AOL own that patent at any time BEFORE this ruling? There was that movie "You've got Mail" with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan. Did they have to pay AOL royalties for that title? Aren't they entitled to get those royalties back?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Argh! (Score:2)
Oh well, I'll just have to patent the use of wood or stone, organised in a cuboid structure, with a hollow interior. I'm thinking of calling it a "building".
Copyright != trademark (Score:1)
Re:Does this mean... (Score:1)
This ruling just means that AOL doesn't own the words "You've Got Mail", etc... They still own the rights to most of the rest of the stuff (as they should, since they developed it).
-ElJefe
the movie (Score:1)
Does this mean... (Score:1)
The classy way to handle infringements ... (Score:3)
Apple had a habit of naming it's internal secret projects after various things. One project was dubbed internally as "Sagan", with respect to, of course, the sci-fi writer Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan learned of this and threatened to sue Apple for the unauthorized use of his name. Apple quickly complied, chaning the name of the project to "Stuck-up astronomer." Or so the story goes.
Heehee.
Wait a minute (Score:3)
It's just fashionable to bust on MS and AOL these days.
--JRZ
Re:Cross your fingers - Patents next? (Score:2)
Re:News flash (Score:2)
"Keyboard Error. Press F1 to continue"
Re:The classy way to handle infringements ... (Score:1)
I thought it was butthead astromer, but it's been too long since I heard that sroty.
George
The framers of the constitution... (Score:1)
"Congress shall make no law" and been finished there.
I have a serious problem with people trying to interpret the consitution with the attitude of
---
the founders of this country never really MEANT to arm the peopple and to make sure that the right to free speech be respected, they would have never put them in today
---
the framers of the consitutution REVOLTED
oh well...
and dont start me on states rights and what the fedearl govt has been doing with that.
Re:GREAT (Score:1)
Oh, no! (Score:1)
You've got mail.. (Score:1)
Yes, the judge wanted to appear "cool". (Score:1)
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
Re:Way offtopic... (Score:1)
Cyrix got their revenge (Score:1)
internet (c) (Score:1)
I'm sorry to inform you that I have now copyrighted the word "Internet" (c) in all shapes and forms.
Hereby each use of the word in question will be charged a standard rate of £5.
"Internet" and all its derivatives (c) The Jazzmann 1999.
Re:News flash (Score:1)
-lee
Microsoft's still got "Office" "Windows" "Word"... (Score:1)
Sun has, well, "Sun" and "Java". (What if Starbucks wants to use the word "Java" in a product)
Apple has "Macintosh" which conflicts with the (to be eaten) apple.
FASA Corp has "Matrix".
"Joy" dish soap; "Cheer" ditergent; "Tide" (with bleach;
Realy, I think a country's body of laws should be the absolute minimal requred to keep order -- that shouldn't include *any* copyright, patent, or trademark laws...
The Onion (Score:1)
I'm surprised no one else posted this [theonion.com] yet.
Scroll down a bit. It's the second "News in Brief" article.
-ElJefe
Re:Microsoft's still got "Office" "Windows" "Word" (Score:1)
I couldn't tell any sarcasm from your comment, so here I go
Joy is also an emotion, therefore when referenced to as such no trademark or copyright can be applied.
The same applies for the rest.
However re. Java, I'm no lawyer, but if they were to refer to it in a sensible way I'm sure Sun would have no problems with it. For example "Java coffee, the new blend from xxx" is unlikely to be a problem. However other obvious trade-ins on the name should be taken up
IM Trademark (Score:1)
J
Is Internet Explorer an MS trademark? (Score:1)
If MS are using that as a trademark now they really are hypocrites.
--
Re:Apple trademark of "Trash"? (Score:1)
BTW the UK versions of MacOS use a 'Wastebasket'.
--
Re:Off-topic grammar question (Score:1)
Re:Cyrix got their revenge (Score:1)
Re:You've got mail.. (Score:1)
--
"I was a fool to think I could dream as a normal man."
B. B. Buick
Re:Even more offtopic... (Score:1)
Re:The classy way to handle infringements ... (Score:1)
AOL prob'ly paid *them*. (Score:2)
For a while in pre-production the film had a couple of different titles (such as You Have Mail), only changing to You've Got Mail in April '98 -- so it's likely that they initially avoided [read:played coy] any association, until AOL ponied up in some way (which could have been as simple as running "co-op ads").
Re:The classy way to handle infringements ... (Score:1)
Oh yeah? (Score:1)
A good start... (Score:1)
Marketing slogans shouldn't be trademarked. If the company wants that protection, they should use one of their trademark product names in their slogan.
Re:trademarks (Score:1)
None of those make any sense. The judge didn't rule that trademarks in general are invalid; he just ruled that AOL didn't have sufficient claim to the generic phrase "You've got mail" to make it a unique trademark.
So now I suppose I can start up a content providing business and call it "NAOL" (North America Online" or "WOL" (World Online) and add in a nifty little program called NIM or WIM which has a "buddy list"? And when people get email, a nice happy voice of a guy from Orville can tell you "You've got mail!" Think of the possibilities...
WOL might work, but NAOL would be too close. (The "consumer confusion" clause.) But yes, it appears that "buddy list" is now up for grabs -- which, to me, is the only one of the three that makes sense for AOL to own. Although, actually, the ZDNN article makes reference to "You have mail" being the operative phrase, which I would say NO WAY could AOL have trademark claim over since their phrase is "You've GOT mail."
There's no real new law here -- the rules have always made it harder to trademark an existing common phrase than a made-up word. For example, starting a business named "Joe's Convenience Store" doesn't mean you now have rights to the phrase "convenience store" -- but it would be hard to deny someone protection for "Joe's Conven-i-o-mart". And then they'd have to be aggressive about protecting the phrase "conveniomart" from becoming generic, or the only protectable part of the name would be "Joe's" (and then only for businesses in the 24/7 store arena).
Re:Wait a minute (Score:1)
Re:News flash (Score:1)
Re:Wait... (Score:1)
You mean they haven't already?!?
URL for the whole story (Score:3)
http://www.wolfstonelaw.com/saganslande r.html [wolfstonelaw.com]
---
Re:You've got mail.. (Score:1)
--
"I was a fool to think I could dream as a normal man."
B. B. Buick
use the words u like - do not pay for them (Score:1)
language is there to communicate with. so if many ppl use a word no moneysucker should be allowed to stop them from doing that. it is just that some ppl are too stupid to listen to the words others develop. so here comes somebody and says "hey i made this silly combination of letters up - it belongs to me". it is so strange a few letters than can even be pronounced and they think they can owe that. ha ha ha
Back to law school for you, buddy! (Score:1)
Why don't you give that bit of sage advice to the originators of heroin, zipper, aspirin, escalator, granola, yo-yo and linoleum
It's the responsibility of the trademark owner to research the mark's distinctiveness in the beginning, to police the market [cojk.com] for competitors' use of possibly infringing marks, and to object before an "unreasonable" time has passed -- otherwise there aren't legal grounds to claim infringement.
As for Linus -- he's actually vigorously and quickly defended [linuxmall.com] the Linux trademark. Note that allowing others to use the trademark doesn't infringe, if they are doing so as agents of the owner. Variant Linux distributions fall under that rubric. Granted, this is a special -- perhaps very nearly unique -- case, but in principle it's not very different from, say, a restaurant franchising operation.
Agreement re: framers ... (Score:2)
Hear, hear! Actually, I'm in favor of some laws occasionally, but every law should not only be necessary but should be periodically reviewed (or reviewable on demand).
But I think every law can be analyzed in terms of how much freedom it either safeguards or removes -- and that this is the most important benchmark. Not "how many lives can be saved," "making an important moral statement," "protecting members of Interest Group X," etc.
Today's politicians are (with few exceptions) late-Roman empire types, dispensing favors in order to keep their purple togas -- not the revolutionaries who broke from Brittain and said "No taxation without representation." Instead, it's "Taxation is OK, so long as my district gets a portion of gravy, and my friend here gets the contract for ladling it out."
just thoughts (with the conclusion that voting l/Libertarian is the least evil thing to do
timothy
Barry was quoting a founder. (Score:1)
Barry was quoting Thomas Jefferson.
Re:Wait a minute (Score:1)
Re:trademarks (Score:1)
(http://www.uol.com.br [uol.com.br])
See if you can beat that.
Re:Even more offtopic... (Score:1)
Re:AOL prob'ly paid *them*. (Score:1)
Too corny? Nah, not corny enough! (Score:1)
Serves them right for not coming up with something even more banal: like "I Seek You."
AOL's likely response can probably be summed up in the family words of the other patently annoying, yet infuriatingly ubiquitous desktop client.
Ut oh!
--
Re:News flash (Score:1)
the sad thing is how often this works...
Wait... (Score:1)
--bdj
Re:News flash (Score:2)
Re:trademarks (Score:1)
Re:good... (Score:2)
I'll agree with Dr. Wiggnz that we need some strict Constitutionalists if we are to defend free speech rights and privacy, but remember, that is a position that requires some extrapolation to take -- nowwhere, for instance, is a 'right to privacy' outlined in the Constitution, and many people clamor *against* 'strict Constitutionalists' on the basis that they would try to inhibit free speech. (See examples below.)
And the difference between a strict Constitutionalist and an extremist is that the first (to those who support it) is a positive term and the second is nearly always pejorative unless used by people who know that *other* people are using it pejoratively. Without getting into whether you like his views (those I've read I have liked, but I'm no expert on his entire body of work), consider whether you consider Robert Bork a) "an extremist" or b) "a strict Constitutionalist," both
of which he might agree with (I would).
How about Patrick Henry?
Barry Goldwater? ("Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.")
The other thing to consider is that freedom of speech is a complex thing. I think it would be silly if AOL got the trademark for "You've got mail," both because similar phrasing has been used in other pre-AOL systems for many years and because it is a simple descriptive sentence.
I'm suprized that "Buddy List" though got nixed, and if I were AOL I'd feel cheated
Just some thoughts -
timothy