Be Inc. IPO launched 121
arielb writes "Be, Inc. is now trading actively on the Nasdaq exchange.. Their ticker symbol is BEOS."
They announced at $6 and went up a little.
"Most people would like to be delivered from temptation but would like it to keep in touch." -- Robert Orben
Be and Apple (Score:1)
And remember, kids... (Score:1)
That one should be good for a quick buck if I buy it a minute after openning and sell at the end of the day....
Re:MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:2)
Man, I think it might be a bit early to start counting them out. I mean, I like OSS and everything, but losing a little market share doesn't mean they're dead.
A better example is SGI; they're basically living off their savings right now (somewhere in the area of $100 million); they can go on for a couple more years that way. Of course, eventually the cash runs out, then you'd better do something right and quick (yeah, they're moving in the right direction, but I'm fearful that their investments in Linux may take years to pan out).
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Re:Microsoft in the market (Score:2)
Of course, Linux doesn't play by the same rules as the rest 'o them...
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Read the post before you reply (Score:2)
So yeah, I've played with it. I didn't say that it wasn't a really keen OS, did I? Actually, if you read the original post, I said that superior tech doesn't mean you win the game.
By the by, do you think that the incredibe similarity beween Linux and other UN*Xes might have something to do with it catching on in the server market? Just a thought.
I believe the point I was making was that putting your money into a company like Be is only slightly less risky and investment than burning it in your fireplace (which would at least heat your home). That's not a comment on their product, it's a comment on their business plan (which goes something like "Maybe people will want to dual-boot us! Hey, it could happen!").
In any event, if you'd take your ritlin and read my original post next time, perhaps future rants like this one could be avoided. Of course, perhaps not since I doubt your .03 second attention span has allowed you to read more than the subject line of this post, either.
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Long-term loser (Score:3)
Be's stock might do well in the short run, but dumping your hard-earned saving into it is a big gamble. Let's face it, they have no long-term prospects.
I mean, this is just another company foolishly deciding to compete with Microsoft by MS's rules in a game that MS has already beaten every other contender in. If Linux proves anything, it proves that the only way to brawl with Microsoft and survive is to change the rules of the game - to (forgive me) think different.
Besides, Be has no long-term prospects and they don't have an established niche in the market yet. To top it off, the market they claim to be after (graphic design, etc) is one where the user base is infamously loyal to their current platform.
I know I'll probably get flamed 'cause BeOS is a good system, but anyone over the age of 15 should realize that that's not enough (remember MacOS versus DOS back in the old days? In retrospect, which was really better? Yet which one is used on 90% of PCs now?). Trust me, the only hope that Be has in the next couple of years is that they'll be bought out by someone big - maybe IBM or a company like AOL.
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Quit fooling yourself (Score:3)
Let's examine this: Be has effectively 0% of the market, they have only a few programs available for their OS, the market they're aiming at (graphic design, layout, etc) is already unreasonably loyal to their current platform, and they're pursuing a typical closed-source business model in a market utterly owned by MS.
Maybe I'm not seeing it? Look, $61 million isn't *that* much money when you're talking about a fairly big business, especially a business that's been operating without any income for the last 4-5 years.
Besides, what makes them different from all the other "better" systems that will let them beat Windows? I think Microsoft has already proven that nobody can stand against them when they play by the traditional rules in the OS market.
I'm not saying that BeOS is a gonner for sure, I'm just saying that they're a real long shot. I hope nobody out there makes it more than a small part of their portfolio, 'cause after a few short-term gains they're liable to lose their shirts.
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Re:Prediction (Score:2)
Re:buying small amounts (Score:2)
Re:MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:1)
That's what we thought about OS/2. But OS/2, like BeOS, was closed-source, and its future controlled by the whims of a single company.
Now look at where OS/2 is. To this day, no better GUI has been introduced (IMHO), and there's still quite a bit of OS/2 software available, but OS/2 is pretty much dead as a desktop OS.
BeOS fans: we're not trying to tear down your OS; we're just trying to point out that Be's business plan is perhaps not all that well-though-out.
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Re:almost at $10 then back to $8 (Score:2)
That's why Bill Gates is rich: he kept all his stock.
Re:$500? (Score:1)
Re:Closed up 2 1/16 (Score:1)
Re:Really good article (Score:1)
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
It remains to be seen if beos can out perform linux or windows. I'd also watch out for future developments from apple, they've got a great foundation to build on right now, they may tie that media market up for a long time to come.
What specifically allows them to work with newer hardware better? In the days of windows hardware I'd guess that anything unMS has less of a chance of working with newer hardware.
GUI also don't sell computers
Be's future is in set top and low end hardware if their smart. That's a virgin market ripe for the taking and BeOS can do that job wonderfully, no question about that.
It might be worth noting (Score:2)
Re:MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:1)
Keep up on current events...
Unfortunately, MS isn't losing out to anybody. The dip in profits is just due to nothing new and glitzy coming out in that period to get the PHBs to purchase site licenses for... I figure MS stands to make a mint off of W2K provided:
1) It ever comes to market
2) The license doesn't have the goofy clause about auto-reporting every bit of software you install to MS... (check some of the prior proposals for Office 2000 license wording, talk about invasion of privacy).
Re:Microsoft in the market (Score:1)
Or dBase III / IV / X
Or WordPerfect
Or PageMaker
Or Turbo Pascal / C
Or Watcom C
Or any other blinking x86 application
Sucks to go up against MS, doesn't it?
Closed up 2 1/16 (Score:2)
Re:Be and Apple (Score:1)
Re:$500? (Score:1)
almost at $10 then back to $8 (Score:1)
For those of you who don't know, QuakeII is available (free binary) at BeDepot [bedepot.com]
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http://www.beroute.tzo.com
*oups* wrong link, here's the right one (Score:1)
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http://www.beroute.tzo.com
Re:Stock Price (Score:1)
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http://www.beroute.tzo.com
Re:Long-term loser (Score:2)
Most companies have lost to Microsoft using "MS's rules" because they each made the Big Screwup: failing to capitalize on Microsoft's missteps. When Win95 was late, IBM could have made OS/2 3.0 a real contender. Instead, they tried to market a business OS to consumers with a series of stupid TV ads. Apple made a bunch of little screwups that became one collective Big Screwup, without ever needing to wait for MS to stumble. That's why Jean Louis Gassee left Apple to found Be in the first place. Digital Research was the only real "victim" of Microsoft, IMHO.
Be is tiptoeing through a minefield of Big Screwups right now. (There's a really big one marked "Java" that they keep getting close to.) If their ambitions in the set-top space work out, and they can drum up the application support they think they can, they can probably get out alive. But that's a big if, considering we haven't seen anything concrete on either subject.
Oh, and the MacOS/DOS war? One OS tied to one closed hardware platform from one manufacturer, against one dominant OS and a few alternative OSs on a somewhat open hardware platform from a myriad of manufacturers. The OS was only part of the issue.
Keith Russell
OS != Religion
Re:Stock Price (Score:1)
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
heh
But even though Be has a cli, it is still limited
can you do everything in be from the command line? i though so.
Re:buying small amounts (Score:2)
Be did well (Score:1)
Re:Very true - alas (Score:1)
Re:their niche (Score:1)
Re:Long-term loser (Score:1)
Re:MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:1)
Red Hat's not turning a profit either. Businesses exist to make money, not give the world free software.
SB16 (Score:1)
ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/contrib/drivers/sb16-0.91-
They are experimental, so be careful, but i heard they work fine.
Re:Long-term loser (Score:1)
AOL Instant Messenger for BeOS
AOL version 5.0 for BeOS
AOL Winamp for BeOS
America Online wouldn't know how in the hell to handle an operating system under their brand name. (Hell, they can't even get being an ISP right.) They'll shove so much crap into it, it won't be the lean, clean OS it is now.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Here's what to do: (Score:2)
Step 1.) Read Slashdot.
Step 2.) Watch Slashdot for updates on BeOS technology.
Step 3.) When you see a significant technological breakthrough from Be, Get greedy, go postal, and buy up all remaining stock in Be.
Step 4.) After the general public gets wind of that "significant technological breakthrough", sell of your stock at double+ price.
Step 5.) Donate money to Slashdot, Myself, The FSF, Myself, and anyone else you care to give generously to. (Myself included. Hey, It was MY IDEA!)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Re:their niche (Score:1)
Re:Be has 2 big edges Apple didn't (Score:1)
Re:Be and Apple (Score:2)
I believe Gasse *wanted* $400-$500 Million for Be, and Apple turned him down. NeXT was purchased for about the same amount.
(Considering at the time BeOS was just out of beta, and NeXTStep had been around for years and was considered pretty robust, Be's asking price was pretty high. Plus they got Steve Jobs.)
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Re:Be and Apple (Score:2)
I don't think so... Here's what they would have needed to do in either case:
1) Port to PowerPC. Not necessary for BeOS, but apparently NeXT (just like everyone else) had done some work there in the early 90s.
2) Run the old MacOS in the "Blue Box" on top of the new OS. Probably has more to do with hooks in the MacOS itself than the new OS, so equal work for either.
3) Overhaul the look-and-feel of the BeOS, write a new "Finder" - I haven't used BeOS, so I don't know how close they already are, but lets assume equal work for either Be or Next.
4) Develop "Carbon", a transition API, for the established Mac software base. Again, probably equal work for either Be or Next.
So, even if they'd bought BeOS, I don't see MacOSX Client coming out any earlier. Plus, they wouldn't have the added extras that they got with NeXTStep - multiuser, postscript drawing engine, UNIX, plus Web Objects and a number of existing NeXTStep apps and companies.
All this might be moot, however, if Be proves to be a much better video platform than OSX Client. (Isn't Avid dropping the Mac due to porting costs?)
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PageMaker? (Score:2)
I don't think PageMaker (or any other Adobe product) has really felt any competition from Microsoft. MS is aiming at the lowend graphics market with PhotoSomething2000, but I don't know if people who buy Photoshop for $600 are really in that market. And MS Publisher - I don't think that's taken seriously at all.
Some people have successfully competed with Microsoft in the Windows app market:
+ Lotus Notes outsells Exchange client licences. (chalk that up to a huge installed base going back 10+ years)
+ Anything by Adobe
+ CorelDraw
+ FileMaker for Windows has a steadly growing
base - at least it hasn't been crushed by Access like DBase and Paradox were.
+ Anything competing with MS J++
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Re:Be and Apple (Score:2)
I'll give you #3, but I think you need to consider #2 a tie. MacOS 7 ran in a "Blue Box" on the old A/UX operating system, and doing this is the only realistic way for 99% compatibility with existing sofware.
As for Unix - 99% of Mac users shouldn't need to care. (They will care if they have to start editing config files! Fear.) The few Mac sysadmins I know are interested in a good server platform, because right now the predominate Mac file+print server is Windows NT.
I'll agree that BeOS would have been a great choice for MacOSX. It's definately closer in spirit to MacOS than NeXTStep. It didn't happen however, so Be will have to live on as it's on system. NeXTStep wasn't exactly alive in recent years, so maybe I'm just happy that it's back. (My biggest concern with Be is that I hold Gasse responsible for many of Apple's fuck-ups in the 80s. Let's just say that I'd take Jobs and his fuck-ups over Gasse's)
PS - WebObjects is an actual profitable product (an applicaiton server), not a buzzword.
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Re:their niche - but no killer app. (Score:2)
My point is that, admitting that BeOS is wonderful and has great potential, until it has something to offer that Windows can't BeOS won't last in the long run.
Re:Closed up 2 1/16 (Score:1)
Josh, aka Wedge`
Re:MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:1)
If the DOJ keeps the pressure on MICROS~1 and they actually have to compete with people instead of crushing them before they can even get a toe hold, maybe 5 or 10 years from now they'll be a player in a market with multiple choices, rather than the abusive monopoly they are now.
Whats different about Be is that they have a technicaly excellent OS that is powerful and easy for the average user to use. They basically have the best desktop OS there is, better than Windows, Mac, and yes a better desktop OS than Linux. If they are allowed to compete on the merits of their product they will survive linux, OSS, and MICROS~1 not withstanding.
The bottom line is that BeOS is just too good to go away.
Stock Price (Score:2)
Be therefore makes $6 x 6,000,000 = $36,000,000
they get this money from the underwriter, and it is the underwriter then turns around and sells those 6 million shares on the market and it is they who make money if they can sell those shares at more than $6.
If you add in Intel's $25,000,000, be has $61,000,000 on hand. Given that they've spent a total of $56,000,000 since 1990 they will be around for a long time to come which is great news for us Be fans (sorry OSS types but BeOS is here to stay)
The bottom line is that BeOS is just too good to go away.
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
mainstream as Linux. Be targeted things at the
"digital media" market just as Linux was targeted
at the server market (and you don't suppose Unix
had a few "unreasonably loyal" followers, do ya?).
By the way, you've seemed to forgotten about a
little trial going on called US Gov't vs.
Microsoft.
See ya when the hammer falls.
Just one more thing: "Besides, what makes them
different from all the other "better" systems that
will let them beat Windows?"
You wouldn't even ask that if you had ever really
used BeOS. It is technologically superior to all
other OS's I've seen. No, it's not open source...
just better.
Yeah, that's my opinion, but you asked for it.
"after a few short-term gains they're liable to
lose their shirts."
Same could be said about 90% of all stocks.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Closed up 2 1/16 (Score:1)
employees cold, dead hands?
-WW
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Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Share Volume (Score:1)
that 8 million was Be employees buying or selling.
They get their stock options from headquarters,
not from the market (in general). And they
probably aren't allowed (or discouraged) from
selling stock so soon after the IPO.
-WW
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Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:It might be worth noting (Score:1)
Half of 10 (the upper limit estimate, BTW) is 5.
It priced at 6. That means they made MORE than
half of what they expected, not "almost half."
-WW
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Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Ever heard of DVD vs. DIVX? (Score:1)
Throw out your old BetaMax vs. VHS, Mac vs. DOS
analogies. We're living in the net times. A place
where a superior technology (DVD) can beat an
inferior technology with more marketing power (DIVX). Word of mouth on the net, grassroots
campaigns, etc. can push the cream to the top...
even past all the marketdroids from M$.
-WW
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Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Ever heard of DVD vs. DIVX? (Score:1)
money to spend. They were going to launch a focused, $100-million ad campaign touting DIVX.
On the other hand, DVD had no such focus because
it wasn't a single company. There were no ad
campaigns to try and explain what DVD was all
about, or how it was better than DIVX.
In addition, DIVX had the support of many studios
(some exclusively) through million-dollar bribes
that were paid out (more money).
They indeed had more marketing. (Or would you care
to pull out some DVD ads from 1 1/2 years ago?)
-WW
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Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Bit different, I think (Score:1)
before opening your mouth?
My comments were clearly in response to people
saying things like "Be can't win on technology
alone... look at BetaMax vs. VHS or Apple vs. DOS/Windows."
Thank you very little.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Read the post before you reply (Score:1)
their operating system on as many systems as possible. Same as MacOS, Windows, Linux, etc.
They happen to have superior technology in the
desktop/appliance market than any of those other
OS's.
-WW
P.S. You're no Freud, ass munch. Try not to psycho-analyze someone you don't even know,
it just makes you look like more of a moron.
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
can you do everything in be from the command line?"
I'm not sure what you mean by "everything."
For example, if you mean, can I grab my web browser interface and drag it INTO the desktop,
then close the browser program and continue to
surf... from the commandline... the answer is "No."
If you mean, can I easily navigate my hard drive,
moving, copying, symlinking files and folders in
many different areas very quickly... from a commandline... then the answer is "No."
If you mean, can I move data back and forth
between multiple applications with a few clicks...
from the commandline... the answer is still "No."
But if by "everything" you mean the same stuff you
do in Linux, the answer is "Yes."
Hope that helps.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
over, because they're based on a CLI? Huh?
2. My comment about the GUI is not supposed to
indicate a superior operating system. My comment
is merely pointing out that any operating system
based on a CLI has a limited future.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Re:Here's what to do: (Score:1)
Re:buying small amounts (Score:1)
--JZ
lackluster opening day (Score:1)
First of all, they hoped to raise $60m and when the issue finally priced, it only raised $36m for them. That sounds like a lot of money, but really is not for a high tech company. To convert that to real terms, a 200 person company can burn $3m a month just on overhead and salaries.
Also, the fact that they couldn't hit their target indicates that they were unconvincing on their roadshow. The roadshow is where price is set based on expected demand from institutional investors. An extreme case the other direction is Ariba, which priced up dramatically in the days leading upto the opening trade. Essentially, it's what the underwriter guarantees to sell their allocation at.
Finally, a 37% rise on the opening day is pitiful... it indicates that the retail investor saw little intrinsic value in the company or it's prospects for the future. Like it or not, a company stock price is a powerful currency used to attract great employees, secure business relationships and make acquisitions.
Re:Not surprising (Score:1)
That's about a 40% jump.
That's actually quite a bit. Most companies never seet hat high of a jump. Ever.
-cpd
their niche (Score:1)
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:1)
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Put Hemos through English 101!
Great (Score:1)
Re:Prediction (Score:1)
Re:buying small amounts (Score:1)
Not likely...
Re:Ever heard of DVD vs. DIVX? (Score:1)
DIVX == circut city
DVD == sony, hatachi, matsuhisha(panasonic), philips/magnavox, all video rental places, and most major movie studios
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:their niche - but no killer app. (Score:1)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:Meaningless note of the day (Score:1)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:Closed up 2 1/16 (Score:1)
IPO. see edgar-online. That would put their market cap at around $250 million.
Re:buying small amounts (Score:1)
Not just because of the hype (Score:2)
Re:Stock Price (Score:1)
Re:MS has $1 Trillion... (Score:1)
I hate to ruin your day, but bothing is "too good to go away". Don't get me wrong. I tried BeOs and loved it. But they are facing a lot of competition.
1. Although it is too early to say whether the new MacOs X will hold its promises, there is no doubt that the unix-based system will --at last-- offer decent memory management and multitasking to an impressive range of multimedia apps. Granted, the hardware is expensive, but the installed base and software choice are powerful advantages.
2. With all the hype around linux, there is a chance that multimedia apps will be developped for it. Remeber the Be demo with 4 movies running simultaneously ? I tried this on Linux. Worked just as well. Whant I'm trying to say is that Linux offers a good basis for multimedia developpement and is getting a lot of attention, right now. Also, it is gaining a foothold in many organizations through the server door.
3. Amiga. Ok, they are the worst record of vaporware in an industry that has invented th concept, but if their latest annoucement (amiga on top of linux) comes to fruition, this will be another player in Be's ballpark (multimedia OS).
4. QNX : if I'm not mistaken, they are planning on releasing the work they did for Amiga, before Amiga took the linux route. This could be another contender in the multimedia os market, and a very good one.
What is happening, I believe, is that MS's less than stellar performance in multimedia has left a small niche open that several players are trying to either take over (Be), or hold on to (Apple). (Linux is a different story, of course as it does not need market revenues to survive).
It's not like I would like Be to fail. I mean I'm a registered user (I paid for the thing --didn't use a demo version, that is), and an early supporter (I bought R3), but it seems to me that unless a number of killer apps come to Be in the very short term (ports of the main music and video software, for instance) and unless they support some higher range peripherals such as video acquisition boards, or music hardware (audiomedia III, korg 1212, protools, etc.), they will be in for a rough ride.
I'm staying with Mac right now for all of my music work, not because I like Apple's pricing policy, not because I like MacOS 8.x's memory management, but because I don't have a choice.
Re:their niche (Score:1)
Jon
Meaningless note of the day (Score:1)
On a lark, I checked out MSFT; their stock dipped over $5 (roughly, 5%) today, not that there's any connection to Be's IPO -- but one can always hope.
Anyhow, it does suggest a slogan to me:
ONLY NINETEEN MORE DAYS !!!!
I suppose we'll have to wait to see what happens to MSFT on RHAT's first day; that may be more telling.
Very true - alas (Score:2)
Be has a shot, but a very very small one. In all likelyhood, they'll fail, but as the original poster suggested, they may get bought out. If AOL or somesuch company can snap up Be and market the BeOS (providing it's still technically superior by that time), I'll cheer.
The stock may not be a good investment, but, for many of us, it's an ethically sound one. Support the most superior OS, and if you lose your money, well, hopefully you weren't trusting enough to invest much.
BTW, as I write this, Be's stock has only gained $2 from its starting price of $6. Doesn't that strike you as a very small gain for a tech stock? Yikes...
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
Re:Quit fooling yourself (Score:1)
Re:buying small amounts (Score:1)
The reason why is liquidity. It's easy to forget this, but every time you want to buy or sell some shares of stock, there needs to be somebody else willing to sell you or buy from you the same amount of shares. Since most of the world buys stock in multiples of 100, it's hard to find someone who will sell you, say, exactly 62 shares of something--and it will be even harder when you want to sell to find someone who wants to buy exactly 62 shares.
Now, of course, you're generally not the one who has to deal with this--your broker is. So in order to discourage you and to offset the greater effort involved in finding a buyer/seller, they charge you higher fees for trading odd lots than lots of 100. Plus, the fact that no one wants to buy/sell odd amounts of stock means that there's less supply/demand respectively--which means you inevitably pay more/get less.
Not the best day.. (Score:1)
Microsoft in the market (Score:1)
When was that, again?
Re:Stock Price (Score:1)
Re:Closed up 2 1/16 (Score:1)
Prediction (Score:1)
BeOS is a great OS (Score:1)
That's my 1/50 of $1.00 US
JM
Big Brother is watching, vote Libertarian!!
Re:Stock Price (Score:1)
Re:Old hardware (Score:1)