Viewpoint - A Spyware and Astroturfing Debate? 68
Spazntwich wonders: "Lately, the Viewpoint Corporation has gained attention by being the subject of many debates on whether or not it spreads spyware. Of special interest is its media player which is installed by default with all recent versions of AIM, as a 'required' component. Its difficulty of successful un-installation coupled with its generally suspicious nature of installation and tendency to 'phone home' have drawn many accusations of spyware, but Viewpoint maintains otherwise. They feel so strongly about this that they've even managed to get their software removed from the spyware lists of SpyBot and other anti-spyware vendors, though nobody seems to know whether this was done voluntarily by the vendors or under threat of litigation. Viewpoint claims a strong anti-spyware policy on their site." Is Viewpoint spyware or not, and what have your experiences been with it?
"Of special interest as of late are Viewpoint's apparent plans to begin serving ads through their media player and an astroturfing campaign that can only be described as aggressive and obvious, which you can see demonstrated in the comments of several previously linked articles as well in a discussion on SearchEngine Journal and a discussion thread on AskLeo. A favorite pseudonym of the campaign(ers?) seems to be Michael Tzez, and googling the name demonstrates just how extensive a campaign the company is waging.
I'm curious as to the Slashdot community's thoughts on this."
Is this the shape of things to come? (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Is this the shape of things to come? (Score:3, Interesting)
Other watchers. (Score:2)
Although I personally don't consider the actual "spying" part of spyware to be unethical, if it's unobtrusive. Google's fine. I don't like the encrypted dialing home, the individual usage of statistics gathered or the inability to prevent gathering them, the popups, and the general plundering of my machine's resources to feed me ads I'm going to ignore anyway.
Of course, I
Re:Is this the shape of things to come? (Score:1)
Until a legal definition of "Spyware" is made, most likely by a court of law, then it will always be up for debate. Once we have that in place, then things won't changed, except that maybe these companies will stop threatening to sue the anti-spyware
guilty as charged (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:guilty as charged (Score:1)
Re:guilty as charged (Score:3, Informative)
Removing it is fairly straight forward.... Close AIM, uninstall ViewPoint from the "Add/Remove Programs" in the Control Panel, then delete the ViewPoint folder.
How is that hard?
After you remove it, I think AIM serves up 'normal' ads. I wouldn't know because there's about a million AIM ad removers and I used one of them before reverting back to an older version of AIM.
Re:guilty as charged (Score:3, Informative)
Re:guilty as charged (Score:2)
And that's sabotage and vandalism. I never grant permission for anything to install itself if I have removed it. I don't use AIM, but I'd sure be upset about that if I did, if it's true.
Code ANalysis says otherwise (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyway, anything that phone homes a bunch of encrypted packets is spyware, in MY BOOK!
Re:Code ANalysis says otherwise (Score:5, Interesting)
Anything that pops up graphical thumbnail suggestions for other competing products when I'm looking at a particular product looks like adware to me. Phoning Home sounds like Spyware to me.
Re:Code ANalysis says otherwise (Score:2)
Wrong question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wrong question. (Score:2)
Memory, disk, and attack surface that may open security vulnerabilities.
The question is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The question is... (Score:2)
Re:The question is... (Score:2)
Re:The question is... (Score:2)
I'm still trying to find out what "Media" this thing actually plays. It's pretty much one of those "Yet another useless search toolbar for IE" programs that does nothing but make someone else money and annoy you to death. Why it's not labeled Spyware just baffles me, then again I'm still wo
Re:The question is... (Score:1)
The question you should all be asking - the only question that is important Is:
I came across this new component on my computer "Viewpoint Manager" is it threatening?
The answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 100% safe! Non of the anti-virus/anti-spyware companies recognize Viewpoint components as threats. They don't recognize them period. It is actually on their safe lists. I could sit here and list 50 components that access the internet on your computer and you would have
Not spyware, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Different wording (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Different wording (Score:3, Informative)
Errr, what? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry, I've missed the part where you back up that assertion except by linking to a bunch of your 1337 friends saying the same thing. According to your Google results, the guy seems to exist, and while he might be a bit too excited over Viewpoint, it doesn't seem like he's alone in that.
And what kind of stupid astroturf campaign would have multiple people pretending to be a single goofball?
Re:Errr, what? (Score:2)
Sooo, I have to ask........ is it you?
Re:Errr, what? (Score:1)
Re:Errr, what? (Score:1)
Re:Errr, what? (Score:1)
Re:Errr, what? (Score:1)
Re:Errr, what? (Score:1)
I think the point of the conditional plural is not that multiple people might pretend to be Michael Tzez, but rather whoever Michael Tzez is may be pretenting to be multiple other people as part of an astroturf campaign, or he could have a league of cohorts helping out.
--JoeOh My (Score:2, Informative)
My personal experience with Viewpoint was that I had three Viewpoint applications installed on my computer. The media player, the toolbar, and one other one. I could not open Firefox nor Internet Explorer. It simply wouldn't happen no matter what I tried. Scannings for adware/spyware/malware didn't work, until I was finally able to narrow it down to Viewpoint. After uninstalling the Viewpoint apps, my computer worked perfectly.
I'm still
guilty (Score:1)
Re:guilty (Score:2)
I agree. In that light, add Apple to the offenders. I tried to download and install quicktime to watch some videos. What I got was the I tumes installer. I tried 3 times to get Quicktime to download instead of I tunes because it was Quicktime that I wanted. Then I noticed in the print that I tunes comes bundled. From my perspective, it looked like I was downloading I tunes and getting Quicktime bundled
How to remove? (Score:4, Informative)
A successful attempt to remove Viewpoint Media Player while AOL Instant Messenger is still installed will cause AOL Instant Messenger to reinstall Viewpoint Media Player the next time AOL Instant Messenger is run. This advertising can be completely removed however with third-party hacks.
To remove ad's from AIM: http://aimadhack.webhop.net/ [webhop.net]
NOTE: I don't use AIM so I would not know if the fix really works or not...
(Thx wikipedia for the info)
There's your sign... (Score:2)
>Viewpoint Media Player collects usage information and forwards it to Viewpoint servers. Each installation of Viewpoint Media Player contains a unique alphanumeric identification number that can be used to uniquely identify an installation of the software.
It uniquely identifies my machine, collects information, and phones home. Q.E.D., it is spyware. Add in that it is installed surreptitiosly as part of something else, is a bitch to uninstall, apparently gets automatically reinstalled by its host ap
IME (Score:1)
Re:IME (Score:1)
Re:IME (Score:2)
NO (Score:5, Funny)
And so what if it's not easily uninstallable? Who are you to prevent them from doing what they want with your computer or any information they discover or infer from its use? What right do you have to tamper with their software just because it happens to reside on your computer? That's their intellectual property!
You freely choose to install Viewpoint's software without your knowledge or consent when you don't read the license you agree to when you install AIM. How is that deceptive or even Viewpoint's fault?
Also, What's wrong with being bombarded with an unstoppable tsunami of advertisements? How else will you know about all the valuable offers that are waiting just for you!
Re:NO (Score:1)
Re:NO (Score:1)
Wow, you really ARE schizophrenic!
Not bundled into AOL UK (Score:3, Informative)
From a Brit... (Score:2)
Wordplay (Score:5, Insightful)
As one other poster mentioned, this is the genesis of trend. No doubt we will see more of this sort of thing. The spyware, adware, demographic, data mining industry has replaced (grown out of?) the dot-com collapse and the American consumer is left with herds of digital predators with a singular interest: "take the consumer's money".
It's long been a popular practice for anything sales to tread the slippery slope of both ethics and the law. Spam distributors began creating "subscription newsletters", so its not "spam" anymore. Telemarketing firms and "outside" sales groups no longer "employ" to fill "jobs" but instead offer "opportunities" (as independent contractors so they can evade employment law, a practice I've seen put to shady use countless times). Telemarketers no longer interrupt dinner with a "cold call", they interrupt dinner with a call only to "parties who've expressed an interest", despite the fact that the customer wasn't made aware that they were putting themselves on a list when they filled out that survey at the mall. You can get a free vacation, iPod, dildo, pony, etc... no purchase necessary, as long as you commit to spend the equivalent of the national deficit on some shady promotional hotel package or subscribe to 300 crap-ass magazines owned by a conservative publishing house. I recall once hearing a sales manager tell a group of door-to-doors, "I don't care if you have to knock them down and take their wallet, just get their money". The corporate clowns in the leather chairs promote this behavior. Managers encourage, or even require, "sales associates" to hardsell extended warranties for electronics products. Telemarketers and door-to-door vermin are driven and even threatened to push to the very borders of harassment. The oil companies increase the gas prices to "cover the cost of gasoline reformulation" which reduces gas mileage, further increasing cost...But I digress.
These companies will manipulate any small detail to be able to say, "It's not spyware", and rest assured, their lawyers have pulled all-nighters splitting the hairs to ensure that this is a "legal" statement. And in legalize it may be true, but legalize != reality.
In the end I guess it's the physics of bullshit. It's all spin. Hell, it's also up and down and goddamn strange, but it completely lacks beauty or charm. (Yea, I know I left out top and bottom but I couldn't think of a witty BDSM reference to justify them).
Re:Wordplay (Score:2)
Even the top of the heap in this business is a bottom feeder.
There. Are you happy now?
It boggles my mind (Score:2)
Re:It boggles my mind (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It boggles my mind (Score:1)
Dude, you're getting some scumware! (Score:2)
I uninstalled it as soon as I saw it on the principle that anything calling itself a media player that isn't WMP, Winamp etc.. is almost certainly adware or spyware and should be terminated with extreme prejudice. Unless it's called Quicktime, in which case just burn the computer. Before all the Apple fans get upset
Earthlink in the UK? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dude, you're getting some scumware! (Score:2)
I'm a Mac user, yes, but honestly -- I don't find it that annoying. It plays movies. It plays audio. It also doesn't reinstall itself or try to access the outside world unless you ask it to. How is it annoying and crappy? It also does a good
Re:Dude, you're getting some scumware! (Score:1)
Quicktime:
* Puts something in the registry to run at startup. Not sure what it is supposed to be doing, but fairly sure I don't want it to be doing it.
* Shows a nag-screen offering me the exciting opportunity to "go pro", and send them some money.
* Doesn't let me play in full screen.
* And number one most important irritation: Isn't my player of choice. I should not be forced to use a specific player to play their media format. Quicktime video and audio should pla
Re:Dude, you're getting some scumware! (Score:2)
Just deny the go-pro screen; that is the one annoyance that I really do agree with you on. But it'll still play movies just fine if you deny it.
It does play full screen -- if you go pro. Kind of annoying. I'm not sure how annoying to say that that is, as I don't use the feature much.
But
Re:Dude, you're getting some scumware! (Score:1)
I've looked for the option to disable the run at startup thing, but have not been able to find it anywhere in the preferences for the player or for quicktime. Perhaps it was an install option, but I am usually thorough in looking through installer choices (including managing to get QuickTime without having to install iTunes, heh), and would certainly not have enabled it if it wa
Re:Dude, you're getting some scumware! (Score:2)
Maybe it has to do with the websites we read but I tend to see a rather lot of stuff encoded in WMV just as much as I see a lot of stuff in Quicktime (but not as much as WMV).
I'd like to see all media formats opened up too so that any player can play any video, but as long as companies want to mak
Newsflash - Viewpoint NOT spyware (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Newsflash - Viewpoint NOT spyware (Score:1)
Re:Newsflash - Viewpoint NOT spyware (Score:2)
And sneaking onto systems and reporting what the user does using a unique ID, and showing ads, is not spyware? That's pretty much textbook spyware.
Sorry to dissapoint. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Re:Newsflash - Viewpoint NOT spyware (Score:1)
Did you even read what I wrote, or run the test?
I've found no network traffic that "reports what the user does."
And bundling software is sneaking onto systems? Guess a lot of companies are spyware now. Guess Microsoft is a spyware company because they bundled Internet Explorer with Windows, huh?
And OMG! A media player that plays ads. WOW what's this world coming to! Next thing you know, televisions are going to be playing comercials.
Does any
Re:Newsflash - Viewpoint NOT spyware (Score:3, Interesting)
I've found no network traffic that "reports what the user does."
Yes. I also read the part where the user agreement states that Viewpoint places a unique identifier on each PC which means that there is tracking of some kind. If there wasn't, what would the unique ID be needed for?
You aren't paranoid if there really is something going on.
It's Malware / unwanted. Period (Score:2)
Why do I not want it? Over a year ago it started popping up dialogs on my screen. Once it automatically downloaded a toolbar on to my computer. When it did that, it displayed a liscense agreement that I could not cancel.
Fortunatly, I was able to get rid of the thing for good by switching to GAIM.