Tier One ISPs Dying 394
xbmodder writes "Two tier one ISPs are down today. At about 23:30PST both Verio and Level 3 starting having problems with routes. According to Level 3 this is a software upgrade gone awry. Is this the end for Level 3?" Many, many reports about this are coming in, and if you're wondering why the stories were rather sparse overnight, it's because it's difficult to post them without internet access. Hope everyone else is back online too.
Guess not (Score:5, Informative)
First Post And... (Score:1, Informative)
http://scoreboard.keynote.com/scoreboard/Main.aspx ?Login=Y&Username=public&Password=public [nyud.net][coralized ]
Seems like a non-event.Re:Call me silly? (Score:4, Informative)
Eg. you have your own large backbone, you own all your equipment.
In effect, a small and wholly owned internet that peers with other internets.
Re:Call me silly? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What is this about? (Score:5, Informative)
The (basic) implications of this is that a good chunk of the internet as a whole is inaccessible to the rest of the internet.
Re:First Post And... (Score:1, Informative)
Good posting
http://www.dummocrats.com/archives/001174.php [dummocrats.com]
Rumors are it started out with L3 but Verio couldn't handle the load at first.
I noticed it. (Score:3, Informative)
Off to the test!
Non event... for now (Score:5, Informative)
Re:PST? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What is this about? (Score:5, Informative)
When a Tier 1 provider goes down, their customers go down too. That picture on the Boing Boing page shows a list of the Tier 1 providers. Every ISP that is NOT a Tier 1, gets their access from a Tier 1.
People speculate that Level 3 is dying because they've been making some really bad decisions lately, resulting in a lot of outages. A couple of weeks ago, they actively filtered out traffic from their competetor, Cogent, over a dispute from how much to charge at the point their networks exchanged traffic (called a 'peering point'). Now this. The rumor is that the company is in financial trouble.
Re:What is this about? (Score:4, Informative)
The Cogent spat isn't over yet either - Level 3 are going to de-peer Cogent again on November 9th. They are trying to force Cogent to pay for transit, but right now it looks like Cogent holds the strongest hand and Level 3 will be once again forced to back down.
Re:Flicker (Score:2, Informative)
http://scoreboard.keynote.com/scoreboard/Main.asp
Nitpick (Score:5, Informative)
Overlay Routing (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.usenix.org/events/nsdi04/tech/full_pap
http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~farnam/pubs/2005-hwj-i
Time in UTC (Score:3, Informative)
But perhaps what's really meant is:
23:30 PDT = 06:30 UTC = 08:30 CEST ?
Re:Guess not (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What kind of Timeframe (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What kind of Timeframe (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What is this about? (Score:5, Informative)
More precisely, Level3 seem to own 23,000 miles of optic fiber [prnewswire.com].
The rumor is that the company is in financial trouble.
Yeah, not so much of a rumor anymore either -- Level 3 loss widens [reuters.com].
Re:What kind of Timeframe (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What kind of Timeframe (Score:2, Informative)
Clarification (Score:5, Informative)
Nitpick to the max: Ye Olde Spell(ing)s (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Non event... for now (Score:1, Informative)
Re:What is this about? (Score:3, Informative)
true in a sense but highly misleading. A large tier 2 isp is likely to have uplinks to MULTIPLE tier 1 providers as well as many peering links of thier own.
Re:What is this about? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What is this about? (Score:4, Informative)
I predict that Cogent will do the same again as well - not lift a finger to fix the problem when they are de-peered on November 9th, and Level 3 will probably end up being forced to re-peer as customers whine that they are not getting the whole Internet and threaten to take up Cogent's free 1 year offer.
Hardly "Hanging On" (Score:2, Informative)
To call them a "dot bomb" is really unfair since they were far more financially prudent during the timeframe, which is why they are still around at all in the dark forest of discarded Telco husks.
Disclaimer, I work for Level 3. But on the other hand doesn't that mean that I know more than most people about the real situation here?
I have had my paycheck bounce at companies I've worked for in the past and been told I'd have to wait an extra month or two for pay at said companies (you know the kind, six employees and the owners mom uses the company AMEX for trips to DisneyWorld while you wait weeks more to get paid). Level 3 is a few billion dollars away from that sad state.
And don't accuse me of drinking Kool-aid either - after going through a lot of layoffs over the years you have a VERY realistic outlook on what the company does well and what it does not.
Unixshell graphs caught my eye (Score:3, Informative)
I was looking for a Linux Virtual Host, blah, blah.
Stumbed apon these pretty pictures [unixshell.com] (near bottom of page) .
Curious, I thought, what happened to Level(3) ? I though for a second because perhaps unixshell had a peering with those people that Level(3) were in dispute with.
Nope, just one of those regular outages that make the 99.999% promises sound a little over done.
Re:Outtage Explained (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Call me silly? (Score:3, Informative)
Also, the description of this story is probably also wrong; cogent isn't a tier 1 provider. Most sources seem to think (although the contract negotiations are confidential) that cogent was already paying Level3 for their peering, but that Level3 decided they wanted more money, based on the amount of traffic they were moving and which direction it was going.
But anyhow, your description doesn't work...the ISP that I used to work for that had 2000 customers would have qualified as tier 1 by your definition.
Re:flapping (Score:1, Informative)
But If you float through the IRC channels on Linux.org there may still be ##level3 and #level3 with some people in there, you might be able to snag a copy of the log from last night from an op.. Best bet, ##level3 on irc.linux.org... Otherwise you might find some remnants form the night before in #fedora
Re:Clarification (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Call me silly? (Score:3, Informative)
The way Tier 1 ISP is defined is mostly by its magnitude. At the time I've worked for that ISP, the rough rule of tumb was that Tier 1 ISP must have a few large capacity pipes from coast to coast at least. Must carry enough traffic so other Tier 1 ISPs can exchange the traffic (peer-to-peer) with this entity. Not strict rules as you can see, but in reality it works well.