Teaching BattleBots in High School 174
Some Guy writes: "We all know that everyone's favourite TV show is BattleBots on Comedy Central, Right?
Well, a new program has started at my old high school that teaches BattleBots to kids. It's a truly engaging engineering program/curriculum that kids and school systems can use for credit. The program is called BattleBots IQ. Kids out there can get their teachers to go to battlebots training camps during the summer, and then have them teach battlebots to them as a class. I wish it was around when I was a kid."
I always loved that stuff (Score:2, Interesting)
sir_haxalot
Useful subject (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Useful subject (Score:1)
War, Death, Famine, and MICROSOFT.
I would like to see. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:1)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:1)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:1)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:2)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:3, Interesting)
Fundamentals are fine but they don't hold kids' attention spans. If you can get kids doing something FUN then show them how it relates to math and science, they'll soak it up big time.
Re:I would like to see. (Score:1)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:1)
You are why... (Score:1)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I would like to see. (Score:2)
Hmmmmm. That is the exact conditions where all those Vietnamese national honor students grew up in.
Based on that sample, perhaps leaky roofs and no A/C/heat will make for *better* students.
Besides, studying leaky roofs helps students learn about practical engineering and fluid dynamics.
Re:I would like to see. (Score:1)
If you ask me, the schools should start taking some of the funds that go to athletic programs (our engineering team that ran robotics as well as JETS got 75 dollars from the school annually) and putting them into science, math, or at least academic outside programs. Schools often claim that students aren't interested in these activites, but with a little publicity around the school, we found a lot of interest, and had our membership triple every year since our first year.
Building Future Engineers (Score:4, Funny)
If I recall right, there has been a decline in engineers in school in the USA. So this would be a good way to promote that sort of thing.
Unless the workforce gets shipped out overseas.
Re:Building Future Engineers (Score:1)
Re:Building Future Engineers (Score:1)
DOWN WITH MATH AND SCIENCE CURRICULUMS!!!! UP WITH UNDERWATER BASKET-WEAVING! KEEP THE MASSES IGNORANT!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Re:Building Future Engineers (Score:2)
Then you should find this story interesting, from Silicon India [siliconindia.com]:
[...] (much detail ommitted)
Building on India's proven software skills, foreign firms are also flocking to set up centres to process financial claims, payroll data and build customer support desks. Commerce and English language graduates are in great demand. - While the technology sector has been hit worldwide, accompanying cost-cuttting measures are a boon for Bangalore. - "The majority of the companies in U.S. are under cost pressure and that's why we expect them to continue to move into India, which offers them a ready-made talent pool," Kulkarni said. - "Cost obviously is the driving force but that doesn't mean that quality is being compromised," he said.
In Bangalore, software engineers can be hired for about $200 per month, nearly one-tenth of what it costs in the United States. The city of about 5.5 million people is home to over 120,000 IT workers.
Battlebots for dummies (Score:1)
I can imagine little children cooking up bots with chainsaws and flame throwers and atomic death ray guns shoddily duct taped to shoeboxes with R/C cars underneath.
Actually, this would be SO much more fun to see!
Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Shot 1 [nemetschek.net]
Shot 2 [nemetschek.net]
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Are you SERIOUS?
Good Lord, man. Your over-anthropomorphizing leads me to believe you've obviously read too many Isaac Asimov short stories and watched "Toy Story" too many times.
And vouchers are the death of public education. It pains me to see you care more about inanimate objects than the growing disenfranchisement of the low-income working class.
Go ask countries like, oh, Brazil, how well a wide class-chasm supports a robust economy.
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
And vouchers are the death of public education. It pains me to see you care more about inanimate objects than the growing disenfranchisement of the low-income working class.
Huh? How does a voucher system contribute to the disenfranchisement of the low-income working class? Are you SERIOUS?
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
Until you realize that the children most in need of fully-funded public education come from families who, even with the voucher grants, can't afford to send the children to "proper" schools.
Hmm... I thought the vouchers paid for the entire cost of education. I guess I can see how that would be a problem if it doesn't. Yeah, you're probably right. Thanks for the info.
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Vouchers not the answer! (Score:1)
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Wow that's good (Score:1)
FIRST (Score:5, Informative)
Re:FIRST (Score:2)
Re:FIRST (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:FIRST (Score:3, Interesting)
Corporations -- and even some public universities that behave like corporations -- worship the god of profit because at the end of the day, that's what pays everyone's salaries (actually that's a corporate myth, but it may as well be true because if you're not contributing to profitability you're likely to get "laid off"). They'd rather hire the kid who won $1,000 building a robotic monster that desroyed the competition than a FIRST national finalist, and many parents/educators are going to favor Battlebots over FIRST for that reason.
Re:FIRST (Score:2)
In FIRST, there are teams who's robots are completely built by students, and there are teams who's robots are completely built by engineers from big companies, and guess who always wins. (they even win the community awards, since the team usually has more time to do work in their community because their sponsoring company is building their robot).
Re:FIRST (Score:1)
Re:FIRST (Score:2, Informative)
Re:FIRST (Score:1)
Re:FIRST (Score:1)
FIRST
FIRST doesn't even guarntee that you get to go to nationals anymore. you have to qualify of be on an even numbered team (odd alternate years)
FIRST is a good program. I am an engineer because of it. All i ask is that you guys read the website, check out the free lesson, then judge whether it's all about money.
You can't teach kids engineering AND build a good robot in 6 stressful weeks. I know people in first who are divorced because of the program. There are right ways to run it, but i don't think they've been decovered yet.
Give BBIQ a chance before writing it off as money-hungry. Comedy Central doesn't even televize BBIQ.
Viva FIRST! (Score:2, Informative)
People tend to ask me "So that's like battlebots, right?" when I tell them I'm a robotics nerd. I explain "No, battlebots has a serious flaw - it's easy to armor a robot, and very hard to build effective weapons within the rules. With FIRST, you have a goal - much a) harder and b) more useful in real life - problem solving and all that jazz.
So, Viva FIRST - we'll have a team in every High School in the US (and in several other countries - Brazil & Canada, for example) for many years after battlebots is off the air and forgotten.
~Mac~
Re:FIRST (Score:1)
The parent post was a bit of a troll, I'm trying to figure out how it got modded so high (probably the conspiracy theory/corporate greed factor). Don't mean to shout too loud, but this needs emphasized - Battlebots IQ _HAS NEVER SHOWN ON TELEVISION_, so how can it be about ratings?!? Same with making money - BBIQ was done at a MAJOR loss, just to try to get the program started in a few schools.
Oh, and gracious professionalism? I never hearf of a case of a team being non-cooperative at BBIQ (not the case with FIRST, from what I hear). Everybody was loaning knowledge, manpower, tools, and parts, even if it was for the team they were about to fight against!
What relevance is it that FIRST is headed by the guy who made the Segway? One of the reasons many FIRST people hate Battlebots is that he is VERY opinionated, and he preaches his opinions at every FIRST competition. It was nice of him to start the whole thing, but he is part of the problem in this case, not the solution.
Learning isn't fun (Score:5, Insightful)
However, in the real world, learning, and science, are quite often not fun. They are often tedious and frustrating, and it's important for kids to learn that lesson. There are other rewards for learning besides "fun" and kids need to learn that, or when they get beyond the educational computer games and battle bots high school classes, and encounter the tedious and frustrating world of real science/mathematics/engineering and discover it's not "fun" they may just give it up entirely.
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:1)
Re:Learning IS fun (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially in this crowd, claiming that learning is no fun won't fly. What geek hasn't encountered frustration configuring something in linux? What geek hasn't repetitively typed man (subject)? Yet I will lay odds that few geeks will claims computers are no fun, that linux is boring.
Pardon me for preaching off a soapbox, but the attitude that 'learning isn't fun' bugs the hell out of me. It is that attitude that keeps people watching TV rather than reading a good book, or play video games till 5am while neglecting homework. The rewards aren't as immediate as other activities but learning IS fun, rewarding and enjoyable as long as we stick to it.
So make battlebot classes fun. I'll guarantee you that if those kids are actually building those bots, they'll encounter the tedium and frustration of engineering. But will that stop them from having fun in the end? Probably not. But it may encourage some of them to try something they never would have, and learn something in the process.
Re:Learning IS fun (Score:2)
Like most
Learning about politics? Again, not fun. CSPAN is uber-boring. Why do I do it? Because I need to stay informed, so I can figure out which politician is going to screw me the least and vote for him.
There are many reasons to learn, probably the least of which is because "learning is fun." Learning makes us healthier, more productive, wealthier, better citizens, and better human beings. Teach kids THOSE reasons to learn, and they'll learn anything. Teach them "learning is fun!" and they'll be most disappointed when they find out you lied to them.
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:1)
Learning is *naturally* fun to most of the human species. We are by nature insatiably curious.
It is our school systems and our society that make learning into boring make-work. It our attempt to mass-educate our children with one curriculum for all that destroys the joy of discovery.
Learning *is* fun. If you have forgotten that I feel sorry for you.
A.
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:2, Insightful)
Do we really need more busywork in our schools? I've known students from schools that have fun and interesting programs like this, and from my unscientific experience, the ones who had classes like this generally have a much stronger long-term interest in math and science than those who didn't. It usually takes terrible University professors to beat it out of them...
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:2)
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:1)
There's a difference between "learning games" and programs like this. This teaches real world problem solving, construction techniques, electronics, and a host of other things. I learned about.ohh lets see here. Electronics, machining, construction, hydraulics, pneumatics, cars, acting, improvisation, teamwork, leadership, writing, high level physics, animatronics/robotics, all through "fun" learning activities. Check out www.dini.org. Things like this are good in schools. Id seriously bet that you'd see higher interest among some kids with things like this in place. I mean comeon, kids like violence. hehe. Plus its something to get involved in and not the standard "sit down and learn from ME because i am GOD now" educational model.
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:2)
However, it's a big plus if the student is motivated by an interesting ("fun") task so that the student will be willing to plow through the hard work of doing the actual learning.
In addition, it's often easier to learn science/math if you have actually mentally wrestled with a problem where the science/math you're learning would actually help with the solution.
Re:Learning isn't fun (Score:1)
Home schooling... (Score:1)
Like as if schools have enough money already, now kids will expect expensive robotics materials given to them.
And yeah, its not like knowing how to figure out percentages or long division is going to help prepare kids for life more than knowing how to smash amateur contraptions together. Yeah right.
I've always wondered... (Score:1)
Not funny? I disagree (Score:1, Funny)
--
Spaz!
Re:I've always wondered... (Score:2)
Re:I've always wondered... (Score:2)
Interesting (Score:2)
Liability? (Score:3, Funny)
I'm amazed that the school's legal department allows this kind of thing. Battlebots are probably safer than rocketry (which my elementary school wouldn't let us do for legal reasons) but still, the potential is there for serious injury. It's probably easier to get this sort of thing allowed in High School. I wonder how heavily they emphasise safety? Based on my quick review of the two rules documents, they've at least had the good sense not to allow guns, bombs or cattleprods. Also, the Robot has to be safe to handle while off; but that may not be enough protection - I realize the stuff in the shop room down the hall is actually far more dangerous, but it doesn't involve the sanctioned game of using it as a weapon.
Play careful, Kids! Don't ruin the fun for future generations by chopping any of your toes off.
Also, just once incident of a robot with a chainsaw chasing screaming teenagers down a hallway would put a quick end to the program, I'd assume.
Re:Liability? (Score:1)
BBIQ stresses safety to the nth degree, and in it's first year (~50 teams) hasn't had a major injury. Shop tools are more dangerous. The control system of the robot (a required part from ifirobotics) is designed to be safe by default.
Re:Liability? (Score:1)
That was cut out of the budget 4 years ago..
Great! (Score:1)
I had Pre-Engineering Electronics in high school (took it sophomore year). I really can not think of any one class more influencial in my thought processes (well, minus Humanities, but that's a different form of process).
I'm sure all the science these people have learned in high school will be only more solidified in their minds after working on this sort of challenge. As my Pre-EE class taught me a new, more involved, way of thinking this sort of BattleBot challenge will benefit people in high school in similar ways. That is, learning to apply the knowledge they had learned (or, roughly memorized) in other classes will help them truelly understand that knowledge.
New York Times article (Score:2, Informative)
I tried that once (Score:1)
Love and Peace,
Valen
Re:I tried that once (Score:1)
Re:I tried that once (Score:1)
Sometimes I make the most ridiculus mistakes.
Love and Peace,
Valen
Mil-Spec Children? (Score:1)
When this next crop comes of age, the military is going to have a hayday.
I can see the advertisement now.. "Do you get scores over 300 in UT2003? Then YOU could already be qualified to operate the Slaughtermaster B7400! (see local recruiter for details)"
Perspective (Score:2, Funny)
Hell, I wish they had computers when I was a kid.
Re:Perspective (Score:1)
Bubba gets into engineering (Score:2)
The great day, though, will be when autonomous bots start winning with faster-than-human reaction times.
Building your own... (Score:1)
Ka-ching, £££... (Score:1)
Other Programs (Score:4, Interesting)
When I was in Elementary and Middle Schools I was in a program called Odyssey of the Mind [odysseyofthemind.com]. This was a great program, with teams of 7 students, who would comptete in both a long and short program. For the long program (8 minutes), the team had a few months and a limited budget, and was allowed to choose one of the 5 problems to solve, Here are Last Years [odysseyofthemind.com]. There was alao a short program, where you were given a set of supplies, 1 min to brainstorm, and then 3 minutes to do it. Usually this challenge took the form of building something, such as the tallest twoer you could with toothpicks and shaving cream, that could survive a 5mph wind, something like that. It was a great program, and wasn't limited to engneering tyes.
There a programs like both OM and US FIRST, or the new robot wars in a lot of communitites, and whether you like their current format or not, we should all get involved. Many of us complain about the current state of education, and I have already seen people complaining about schools, and thanking vouchers. If you think these programs are great, get involved! If not get involved anyway and bring your experiences and incites to a younger group.
-OctaneZ
Re:Other Programs (Score:1)
Re:Other Programs (Score:2)
I have to admit, the Chameleon Car sounded like an cool project. I wonder if you had to make a full size (driver sits inside) vehicle, or if you could just do it with radio control? For $135 your budget will be very tight on any full sized car.
My High School had a Battlebots Team (Score:2, Interesting)
RoboCode a great teaching tool for software... (Score:3, Informative)
great idea, but.. (Score:2)
The downside to this would be virtually identical bots in uninspiring battles. I really hope we don't see this. It would be nice if the course focused on basic engineering fundamentals and then found ways to foster innovation.
In either event, I'm happy to see this. Get people proficient in robotics at an early age, and by the time they become adults we will see some really amazing things.
That sounds like.. (Score:1)
This ranks right up there with PDAs in school (Score:1)
Re:This ranks right up there with PDAs in school (Score:1)
Robotics in education (Score:2, Informative)
For the high school students the FIRST program (usfirst.org) gets serious. Here students build real robots designed to meet a specific challenge. AutoCAD and other software companies provide software grants to high schools so the students are getting the real thing. Local businesses involved in engineering usually provide volunteers to mentor the students. It can cost 1 school over 30K to compete at this level. rhodewarrior.org is a site from a high school in RI that has been involved from the beginning and scores pretty well.
The more the merrier, I think, when it comes to this kind of stuff. There has been some concern though, of making sure the students are truly meeting a challenge, and not just building something for the sake of going out and destroying things. The FIRST robotics programs usually involve designing a claw or figuring how many ping-pong balls you can pick up and get into a basket.
If you find yourself wishing you had this when you were in school, then ask around at your local school district - folks are always looking for volunteers.
If you want to make kids smarter... (Score:1)
Great in theory (Score:1)
So, in theory, my senior year, i would be able to take the AP programming class and possibly get college credit.
Wrong... The teachers that they sent out were not programmers by any standards. By the 3rd month, we had already surpassed their training. After that, it was student and teacher working together to learn the material. Some of the students (myself included) were better off just reading books on our own. By the end of the year, we only got through a third of the curriculum that we were suppossed to. So, taking the AP exam wasn't even an option.
Point being, this new program seems really really cool, but I hope that they actually take this seriously before they half ass the training and use unqualified people... cause it's unfair for themselves and the students.
Some things chever nange (Score:4, Funny)
Seen it before (Score:1)
I think that this idea is pretty cool. I would have loved to have a course in high school where I could rip things apart and build a bot like this. Guess I'll have to wait for my design project in my 4th year of Aerospace Engineering.
home made rc cars instead (Score:1)
All of these items are on a battlebot. The only difference is that is in the world of rc cars, the competition is benign. In battlebots, it is open and obvious destruction. We should be fostering construction rather than destruction, imho.
Nooo! (Score:2)
Nooo! Robot Wars UK is way better!!
Re:Nooo! (Score:2)
Future jobs at stake. (Score:1)
Battlebots doesn't get enough credit... (Score:2)
Unlike those other WWF-inspired hype and showbiz chainsaw shows, BB is still a game show about design and engineering. I wish they'd get some less obnoxious announcers and lose the babes doing the in-the-pits interviews (I know, I know, but The Man Show comes on right after it, right? Can't you do your oogling then?)
The other show that really deserves credit for this sort of thing is Junkyard Wars on TLC -- leave it to the Brits to come up with an entire game show about engineering, AND it's an hour long. This is better than The Secret Life Of Machines *AND* Connections.
Too bad more network programming crudholes can't do math or we'd see more of this sort of thing.
Battle bots is for wussies.... (Score:1)
Re:Liability (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better. (Score:1)
Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better. (Score:1)
I don't know why it is, but the moment American media gets hold of something, it turns it into bland, flavorless mush. Is it really so hard to come up with a half hour of entertaining television, devoid of filler?
Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better. (Score:2)
Building robots in school reminds me of the Far Side cartoon of some pimply kid saying to his teacher "Hey, I want to talk about that D you gave me in shop", with a giant killer robot looming behind him.
Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better. (Score:1)
Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better. (Score:3)
I don't know why it is, but the moment American media gets hold of something, it turns it into bland, flavorless mush. Is it really so hard to come up with a half hour of entertaining television, devoid of filler?
Um, the Americans had this before the UK. Biohazard [robotbooks.com] astounded the crowd by self-righting, a full two years before Rex [freeserve.co.uk]'s legendary backflip. Blendo [battlebots.com] tore opponents to shreds long before Hypnodisc [homestead.com] came up with an inferior implementation of the flywheel weapon.
I think the main reason UK Robot Wars is so good as regards the action / bullshit ratio is that we have so _many_ robots to get through. There's simply no time for filler material. Anyone with a bit of mechanical ability can knock together a robot, and getting it down to London is hardly a transcontinental commute.
Personally, I just want to get hold of a video of Razer [razer.co.uk] on Battlebots. Their website brags like mad about that.
Re:Story or Advertisement? (Score:1)
Re:Dean Kamen (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Oh Great (Score:2)