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Compaq

iPAQ 3800 In Photos 77

okiwan points to this review of the H3800, the newest rev of the handheld iPAQs, writing "New pics of the ipaq 38xx. hella neat." The photos also give a good size comparison to other handhelds, including ones you may not have heard of before.
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iPAQ 3800 In Photos

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  • Looks like Compaq has another winner, at least in the PPC market. John
    • Are you kidding me? Compaq has another winner, at least in the PPC market and the Linux PDA market. Even though it ships with Wince, Compaq's open-spec policy and general goodness towards "the community" [handhelds.org], as lead to the IPAQ PDAs being the best PDAs to run Linux on.
  • As long as I can run Linux on it I'll be happy.

    Ciryon
  • The winner of the PDA game will be the one who finds a way to do without:

    • "Double headed sync cable ..."
    • "...special adapter for charging..."
    • Myriad other things I need to pack in my suitcase or pockets
    • Yes. Bluetooth is supposed to be the answer to this---although people have vast ambitions for using Bluetooth as a network protocol etc, it was originally designed as the answer to the connector conspiracy. It hooks together your hardware. Power is still a problem, so for various reasons I think we're going to be stuck with device-specific chargers for some time.

      Think of Bluetooth as USB without wires. Ignore the hypemeisters who want to use it to deliver locale-enhanced portal services, or whatever it is they're trying to sell now.

      If Bluetooth succeeds, it will be as a cable replacement first.

    • The 3870 [compaq.com] has integrated bluetooth. If I didn't have such dismal expectations of it, I would say you could use that. There's also an IR port, if you have one on your synch station, and it can take an 802.11b card and synch over the network. If you just want to charge it, you can either use one of the PC Card sleeves with the DC in port, or use a small DC-in converter. The last two solutions are mentioned in the article.
    • I'm feeling guilty about this easy scoring karma whoring - don't mod this up - but The Register has a scoop [theregister.co.uk] about Bluetooth LG Electronics and, let's hope, 802.11b for the Ipaq for 2002.
  • It's time we changed our destiny!! H3800!! Yes!! Yes!! :-)
  • by TheMMaster ( 527904 ) <hp@NOspam.tmm.cx> on Wednesday October 17, 2001 @06:53AM (#2440613)
    Check QT/Palmtop [trolltech.com] and handhelds.org [handhelds.org] very cool, also check pocketlinux [pocketlinux.org] this is really the most beautiful PDA distro I've ever seen!!
    If they can only make installation a bit easier...
    • by ankit ( 70020 )
      Hi,
      Dont worry about the installation part... The new bootloader (2.16.x) had dual boot (wince+linux) capability!! It is still in testing, and installing it is not reccomended for atleast another weak...


      But just imagine how many more people are going to install linux after the dualboot is perfected!!

      • Not too many, i think, at least not on any of the models with only 32MB memory. You could theoretically fit both wince and linux on the same PDA, but nothing else wouldn't fit anymore. (Assuming that both OS's won't fit in the flash ROM at the same time).
        • Well, the good news is that you can keep linux on a CF card! Work is in progress. :)

          So the 16MB flash can be used for wince, and linux can be stored on the CF card. i think 64 MB CF card will be quite adequate for most purposes.
    • In Germany GNU/Linux-iPAQs (i. e. H36xx for now) can be bought preinstalled with GNU/Linux and QPE from some third-party vendors, e. g. LISA Systems ("http://www.lisa.de/" - please don't /. them too badly, it's a small company ;-)). As Compaq contributes a lot of research and development into bringing the penguin to their PDAs, it's really time for them to sell them preinstalled. I'm quite sure it won't take long until the H38xx will have full GNU/Linux support like the H36xx series.

      I bought my H3660 from such a third-party vendor, and the default GNU/Linux + QPE installation is really usable.

    • (handhelds.org and PocketLinux distributions for the iPaq)

      Great distribution. But the installation goes through a serial port boot loader and it takes a lot of manual intervention and patience. One can only hope that Compaq will either start shipping iPaq's with Linux or that there will be at least a "one click" installation from CompactFlash.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      Check QT/Palmtop

      Just make sure you understand that many of the claims they make are misleading:

      Why not just use X? Qt/Embedded has much lower RAM and ROM requirements than X. Clients also access the display directly for optimal graphics performance. Additional features such as anti-aliased fonts and alpha blending, not offered by X, are also available.

      In reality, Qt/Embedded uses about as much RAM and ROM as a handheld X11 installation and there is no noticeable difference in performance on modern handhelds. X11 provides both anti-aliased fonts and alpha-blending. X11 also has ClearType-like subpixel addressing, support for multiple toolkits, and network transparency in both directions, features notably absent from Qt/Embedded.

  • hmm (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ravagin ( 100668 ) on Wednesday October 17, 2001 @06:58AM (#2440629)

    Whenever I see the phrase "hella neat," all I can think is "What? Hello Kitty? Huh?"

    That aside, the iPaq is pretty sexy - and a good device, if your tastes run that way. Me, all I want is everything my Palm IIIxe (still the best Palm-made PalmOS device out there) gives me - addresses, calendar, Rogue, and RTF word processing. (rock on, Palm Portable Keyboard!)

    The only new device I've seriously considered is the ravishingly sexy HandEra 330 [handera.com]. Yee-ow.

    Oh no, here come the PocketPC users, eeeee....

  • by Quixote ( 154172 )
    When can I buy a palmtop with a 640x480 camera and a wireless modem which can be used together?
    • Danger's [danger.com] new Hiptop [danger.com] might sorta be what you want. They don't give axact specs on the camera. It's a pretty dope little toy though - "real" web browser, IM, email w/ attachments, phone, PDA, and camera, and its wirelessly networked. It's still not clear when you'll be able to buy one, but if they're smart, they're going to get it out in time to compete with Treo and Nokia's new phone/pda/mp3 player thingy [nokia.com].
  • by kc0dby ( 522118 ) on Wednesday October 17, 2001 @07:20AM (#2440663) Homepage
    So when the heck is Mavis beacon going to get off her butt and teach me how to type with my thumbs? Seriously, maybe this new thumbing keyboard style that has emerged will open the door to a new keyboard layout. QWERTY is just about as bad for thumbing as it is for typing. The only thing that's easy to type on QWERTY is the word QWERTY. Between the two-way pager, the bluetooth devices, and now this, I think my poor thumbs are going to start longing for "the old days" when all they had to do was occasionally pick up a writing instrument or fork..
    • Agreed. I've only seen 2 mainstream solutions to the text input problem:

      -- Shrink the standard QWERTY keyboard, and wait 10,000 years for us to develop super skilly thumbs
      -- Cell-phone style keypads. This is great if you like hitting the same key 1-3 times per character.

      Why not make a, say, 32-ish key pad. 13 (x2) for characters, 10 for nums, plus enter, meta keys, etc. Set it up 6x5 plus 2 on the side/bottom.

      OK then, now that this is archived, I'm off to fill out my patent applications. [uspto.gov]
    • QWERTY was designed to alternate hands when typing words, so that the typewriter keys would not jam as they would be coming from opposite ends of the thing.

      In that sense, QWERTY is perfect for 2 thumb typing, alternating between hands is the quickest way to type on a device that you have to hold onto with the same 2 hands!
  • by ankit ( 70020 ) on Wednesday October 17, 2001 @07:23AM (#2440668) Homepage Journal
    I really dont understand how the 3800 is better than the 3700. The has the same processor, the same memory (both flash and RAM). The only two differences I see are :


    - The SD slot. btw, did you know that SD means Secure Digital -- All the Secure media problems come with it. And, it would not work with linux because the specs are not available
    - Better display - 16 bit instead of 12 bit display. This is really not worth it unless all you want this for is watching movies. You wouldnt notice it in day to day use, and even in games.

    I feel the 3700 seems a better bet right now, specially with X-scale to be released middle of 2002.

    • SD [sandisk.com] slots are a superset of MMC [sandisk.com], the MultiMediaCard. Any MMC media should work in an SD slot. Uh, I forget whether I'm NDA'd on the details of SD (damn click-through licenses) but I think you should be able use SD cards that don't have "secure" content on free operating systems.

      BTW, the MMC interface is quite simple; it's the kind of interface you could build in a second EE course on design with microcontrollers. Much simpler design than CF.

      • If the "secure" part of "secure digital" is implemented correctly, you should be able to use even "secure" content with open source operating systems, as all the encryption and decryption would be carried out by hardware devices and the software would just shuffle bitstreams between them.

        Of course, if the "secure" part relies on keys that get embedded in software somewhere, then that needs to be kept secret. But, then, someone will reverse engineer it pretty soon anyway.

    • SD Slot so that you have integrated expansion without a sleeve, the better display, larger battery (1450 mAh vs 900mAh), and the 3870 has integrated Bluetooth.
    • Don't get your panties in a bind over SD. If you don't like it, buy Multi-Media Cards (MMC). They are the same form factor and don't have the annoying secure crap. I'm using a 32M one for backup storage on my handera and it works quite well for how small they are. Plus, MMC cards are cheaper than SD cards (usually, sometimes they are the same price).
    • I have to wonder if that that 12-bit color display is palletized or not. Right now 16-bit barley passes for true color with 5+5+6 (with 6 for the green). What would 12-bit have 4+4+4? 4096 colors doesn't seem that great.. then again thats what the amiga had, and it managed to look 'ok'.

      -Jon
  • by Pete (big-pete) ( 253496 ) <peter_endean@hotmail.com> on Wednesday October 17, 2001 @07:42AM (#2440722)

    I'm waiting for someone to bring out a PDA and mobile phone combined...but wait - not in the style of the Nokia communicator or many of the hybrids (although the 9210 is a nice bit of kit, which is what I use at the moment). I want the GSM technology to be built into the palm sized device, but I want a pen sized/shaped unit to use as the phone component. Communication between the phone component and the base phone could be done via buetooth. Much the way the ericsson headsets operate now - with headset -> PDA instead of headset -> mobile phone.

    Also I would expect such a device to have voice recognition, so calls can be made entirely with the headset, without having to pull up the PDA to specify the call details.

    Another thing that of course makes or breaks PDAs is the syncronisation software - there is no excuse for sloppy code here - and I really think that this is one area that Nokia haven't done so well with their communicators. I have about 1500 contacts, but once I start trying to syncronise more than about 900 it becomes unbearably slow. come on - why aren't the contact databases transferred as a file to the PC, syncronised on the PC, and thne the files should be transferred back - the PC is vastly more powerful than the device, so it should be doing the donkey work!

    I think that the iPAQ's have fairly good syncronisation software though (AvantGO is quite impressive I understand), and this is a point that anyone else developing a PDA needs to bear in mind. the PC interface matters!

    Bah - just a few random(ish) thoughts anyway...

    -- Pete.

    • Motorola has some models like that. The Accompli 008 for instance. Doesn't seem to appear on the US site though. Here it is on the UK site [motorola.co.uk].
    • You will be able to get a GPRS/GSM sleeve [compaq.com] for the iPaq that not only will allow you to access packet switched data, but has a microphone and speaker so you can use it as a phone.

      There's also a provision for an earpiece, but I suspect it's one of those el-cheapo crappy ones. I hope someone will write a Bluetooth driver that lets me use, say the Ericsson Bluetooth headset (as seen in Tomb Raider) to talk on the GSM phone.

      The iPaq also has IBM ViaVoice for voice recognition.

      Not quite what you're after, but close.
    • Since I can't mod this up (no points today) I'm just going to have to agree. I've been wishing for this for the last 5 years, but it's only seemed technically/economically feasable in the last 2 years. The first company that gets this all the way right, i.e. no problems with:

      a) voice recognition
      b) sound quality
      c) battery life in both the "ear piece" and the unit
      d) sync-capability
      e) ergonomics (ease of use issues)

      Will get my and everyone elses $$. For something with these capabilities I think that it would be reasonable to pay (and I will gladly pay) $1200.00

      At that price though, I'd want transcribing software and an MP3 recorder/player.

      *drool*

      What sucks is I know I'll have to wait at least 7 years for this to get to production.. *sigh*
    • Did you see the pictures of the mm02 xda? It's quite a sweet looking device; GSM and PocketPC2002. The pen-handset idea is interesting, but I would simply prefer a smaller unit. I believe Motorola also have a new Accompli model out (008?), but of course, this doesn't have quite the same functionality.
    • Sounds like you'd like Handspring's forthcoming Treo [handspring.com], unless you're married to Microsoft.

      It's the first PDA-phone I've seen that isn't overly PDA-ish with a phone tacked on (Visorphone) or a phone with a PDA stuffed in (Nokia Communicator, various Qualcomm and Samsung entries).

      • Sounds like you'd like Handspring's forthcoming Treo, unless you're married to Microsoft.

        Hmm, I wouldn't say that I'm married to Microsoft...the Nokia 9210 communicator I use now is based on the SymbianOS (crystal).

        I looked at the Treo on the web a couple of days ago. It's not for me though - I can't see anything it offers (except maybe a little size and a touch screen) that I don't already have on my existing phone - and the screen is certainly inferior. Also it's still a device that you have to hold to make calls. I'd love to see the headset get seperated from the main unit once and for all.

        However, when I said "pen sized/shaped" in my original comment, I was referring to a fairly chunky pen - I'm not expecting to have a bic biro sized handset just yet! I don't see why something the size of a largish fountain pen should be too much trouble though.

        -- Pete.

    • I've got a friend who works at Danger [danger.com] and that just about describes their hiptop product.
  • The new HP Jornada 560 series can bitch slap the iPAQs around now that they both are competing with 206MHz CPUs. Jornada has built in CF slot, removable battery, case cover, BUT:

    The new iPAQ has this awesome GSM/GPRS mobile phone sleeve, which makes a fully functional Windows CE/PocketPC 2002 organiser and all that *that* allows, plus full GSM, SMS from the sleeve (with a stumpy little aerial at the top).

    So while the 560 series was looking cool for a few weeks, the iPAQ can whoopass as a Nokia Communicator beater now, for around the same price. Also, they are releasing a dual PCMCIA adaptor so you could conceivable have the mother-of-all gadgets with a GPS, GSM and 2GB Microdrive with 5 movies and loads of MP3s.

    Check Compaq's site for the details on the GSM/GPRS attachment (yes there is a PCMCIA solution from Nokia, but this new one is really really slick because it's built into the sleeve).

    • There's a point though - how long is it going to be before the Jornada and iPaq ranges merge? And will it look like the human-alien hybrid from Alien:Resurrection?

      Oops, took the wrong pill this morning...
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The 3800 includes the Jeode PersonalJava runtime [jeode.com] - alas not installed by default, but available on the companion CD.
  • Now that the next, next-generation of iPaqs are coming out, can anyone point us to some cheaper, older ones? I'm thinking between 16 and 32 megs of memory, hopefully able to run PocketPC 2 as a base, and Linux if I feel like it.

    I always find the best prices for old hardware come out a month or two after the new hardware comes out. Oh, and has anyone gotten Pocket PC 2/Linux running on one of the black and white machines yet?

  • Does anyone else out there think that this new iPaq is still too bulky? I've seen loads of pictures with people holding it in their hand and it still seems like a pain to put in my pants pocket, especially with all the sleeves and add-ons.

    I'm not a big fan of having a bulge in my front jeans pocket, especially when I've got my mobile phone and car keys as well.

    I just wish they'd slim it down a bit, and shave a few centimeters from the length, while still having it somewhat rugged.

    I'm whining, I know.


    • "I'm not a big fan of having a bulge in my front jeans pocket, especially when I've got my mobile phone and car keys as well"

      Yea! Same here... but for some reason I have been getting a hella lot of dates lately....

  • Nice, but not killer (Score:3, Informative)

    by humps ( 245087 ) on Wednesday October 17, 2001 @08:48AM (#2440959)
    Forgot about the Toshiba e570?
    Smaller than the iPaq, yet same power and features (64Mb). Built-in CFII + MMC/SD card slots, no need for bulky add-on ugly black plastic crap for ipaq, thank you very much. Can even run 1G IBM microdrive with 'extra' power saving options specifically aim for it.
    Get a WinTV VCR, automate an MPEG4 compression to approatie screen res (320*240>), copy to your 1G microdrive and watch your program on the road. Ok, iPaq can do that, but you have to shell out a hundred bucks for the plack plastic expansion first!

    64Mb of 64kbit WMA is good enough while you're travelling, a 32/64Mb MMC card gives you plenty musical enjoyment too!

    All in the same tiny shell, now beat that for the same/cheaper price than the iPaq

    humps
  • Yahoo's home page, yesterday, had one of these iPaqs twirling around it insanely. At this point I'm convinced that anything Yahoo advertises will be immediately unappealing to me.
  • This will decrease productivity even more than a normal computer!
  • they're huge! (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    they're all too huge! try putting one of these in your pocket and sitting down. especially if you wear jeans. the name is a joke.

    the Palm V is just about small enough, but these lunkers? no way.

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