More Links And Reports On Terrorist Attacks 1056
Two major news updates: the plane downed near Pittsburgh is reported not to have been shot down. A fifth plane which had been feared hijacked, this one a Korean Air jetliner, was forced down by Canadian Air Force planes over the Yukon. However, this plane is reported not to have been hijacked -- instead, its emergency beacon was triggered by a low-fuel indicator.
Importantly -- remember, blood is in demand. The Red Cross' site is mobbed, but here's the blood donation information on a the cached page at google.
More details of the attack and its aftermath: a report at at gnome.org, and a photo at indymedia.org. pajama links to NYC Police scanner traffic (winamp) streamed online, and an anonymous reader also points to another scanner feed.
Shadowwalker Delaforge writes "Hey guys: I'm submitting my web site to yours to get the word out. I've been compiling web sites, and info on the U.S. Attack. These sites are ones that work, and arent' swamped out of existence. I'm also adding new data about where people can donate money, blood, and other things dealing with this.
soccerdad writes "Due to the activities of today, the internet/networking experts at my firm have been asked by some of our clients to be on standby in case anything untoward occurs. They've been monitoring backbone activity, etc., in a "just in case" mode. They've described the activity they're seeing as somewhat strange. The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic. They're working on doing some traffic analysis but haven't completed that effort yet."
A small piece of that bandwidth may be saved if you go to the link Kalak suggests: "William Shunn is collecting short notes from people in the terrorist affected areas so you can see who is OK." Look here (or post your name here if you're in an affected city) before tying up a phone connection. Alex Fabrikant submitted another personal information site at Berkeley
Thapthim writes "http://cbc.ca/ has all sorts of information, even in our own city buildings are being shutdown, all air traffic has been suspended. However Canadian Airports are taking in international flights heading into US so the air ports there are free for emergencies."
sn0wcrsh wrote to say that a "short blurb on Channel 7 Boston that the CTO of Akamai was on the fateful plane that hit the trade center" confirms the earlier reports that he was on board.
And ectrix writes: "The CFO of my company, Netegrity was on United Airlines Flight 175, which has been confirmed to us by United Airlines to have hit tower two of the WTC.
WAVY NBC - Norfolk, VA (among other local TV stations I'm sure) is reporting on the air the Threatcon levels at the area Naval, Air Force, and Army bases. They are all at Threatcon Delta. Their website currently only lists their status as of the beginning of the attacks, which was Threatcon Charlie. Norfolk, VA is the home port for the US Atlantic Fleet. Local TV stations also are showing armed (M16s, shotguns) guards patrolling the base grounds and perimeters."
There are updated photos and videos here, and CarbonFusion wrote with another good link to photos and videos.. eddiem writes: "http://www.flightexplorer.com/ will soon let you view the flight path of the planes." Explanations of airport security at How Stuff Works and Cryptome are an interesting read under the circumstances as well.
Bard, Andrew wrote with some updates as well:
"Just to let you know:
- I heard a woman who was on the 92nd floor of the first WTC building when the plane hit it. She was able to escape and so was everyone "in her company" so it is assumed that virtually everyone from the 92nd floor down was evacuated successfully - an estimated 20,000 people of the 25,000 in the building.
- the plane that went down in PA had a woman onboard who locked herself in the bathroom with her cellular phone - she was telling authorities about the hijacking when the plane crashed and killed her - that is the only way the authorities knew for sure what plane went down in PA so quickly, she gave her flight number
- the Mexican border is completely closed and the Canadian border is still open - all International flights have been redirected to Northern Canada
- the planes from Boston were presumably chosen because they were going on long flights (to LA) which would make them larger than average airliners with full tanks of gas
- when the first WTC building crashed (which was the 2nd one to be hit), 125 firemen were down below fighting the fire on the first building to be hit... none of them have been heard from yet - 10,000 emergency personnel in NYC responded to the first WTC getting hit... it is unknown how many of those were crushed in the two collapsed buildings."
Correction (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Correction (Score:3, Informative)
If you meet the following conditions, you will be allowed entry to the U.S at this time:
1.) you must be a U.S. citizen
2.) you must be on official U.S. business, or have an immediate emergency need to return to the U.S.
The borders are backed up quite a bit just about everywhere right now, but in most areas, the RCMP are trying to intercept people heading that way, in order to help the border guards filter out the traffic..
I live in Vancouver, and every single hotel and lodging is booked solid. They are having a hard time finding places to put all the people who got diverted here from other internation flights.
The best photo I've seen of this nightmare (Score:2, Interesting)
Link to Photos (Score:2, Insightful)
You can also view images and movies at (Score:2, Informative)
Please email me all your pics and movies, as I will put them online also.
email them to crimson@unspeakable.org
Another building collapsed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Another building collapsed (Score:2)
Re:Another building collapsed (Score:5, Funny)
Kudos! (Score:2)
I would like to (try) to be the first to thank the Slashteam, the editors, and all Slashdotters themselves for their response to this. I woke up and just happened to check Slashdot before I left for work. I arrived an hour late thanks to CNN and my own astonishment. Later through the day, while news sites went up and down, Slashdot's commentary provided ample links to news sources for those of us trapped in cubicles.
Huzzah to you!
Don't care if I get modded down (Score:2, Informative)
I'm in Canada, and despite our differences with our friends to the south, this incident is just horrific. Seeing the towers collapse was the most stunning and sickening sight I've ever seen.
Condolences and regards to all those in New York, and around America.
One question. Where was that 4th plane headed? Looked like the Pentagon from the ATC displays CNN showed...
Re:Don't care if I get modded down (Score:3, Interesting)
AFAIK, Building 7 housed the BATF and OSHA.
Better security on planes (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Better security on planes (Score:2, Insightful)
As for better protecting the cockpit, I agree. Maybe something more than a cloth curtain or particle board door is in order, how about someting like steel with a keyless deadbolt? Maybe a firearm in a lockbox in the cockpit? Something that can actually keep people out.
Re:Better security on planes (Score:2)
Re:Better security on planes (Score:5, Insightful)
A hijacking usually means that the plane is redirected to another location and the hostages are traded for some demands, etc etc.
Now I think that people will fight back a lot harder the next time someone tries to hijack a plane with a knife.
Re:Better security on planes (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Better security on planes (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Better security on planes (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Better security on planes (Score:2)
Innocents.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Innocents.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Put another way, consider what the terrorists actually did: kill innocent civilians. All of the suspects (Muslims, domestic, etc.) would have been motivated by revenge. If we kill or harrass everyone who might be associated with a terrorists, in the hopes of silencing or scaring our enemies, we will have become terrorists ourselves - literally, acting by terror.
The US is already close enough to ruling by fear (note the "chilling effect" - Supreme Court's legal term - extended by the DMCA and other recent legislation, going far beyond the intent and, often, the letter of the law). It doesn't need to go further down that path just now.
Re:Innocents.. (Score:3, Informative)
First off, my heartfelt condolences to those who have lost family, friends, and loved ones in this tragedy.
I met with a number of friends at lunch. Some had loved ones who they had been unable to reach to see if they were okay.
I felt powerless over what had happened, and indeed there is nothing anyone can do to change what has already happened. But, I did what I could, today. I offered a shoulder to cry on. I encouraged them to have hope, to know that not knowing does not mean the worst. That there is already a tremendous pulling together of support. Calls for blood donations, people reaching out to friends they hadn't talked with for a long while, and countless other acts across the country and the world where people offer support to one another.
This tragedy can become a rallying point, an opportunity to show the world what we are made of here in the US of A. The Oklahoma bombing, the flooding of the Mississippi River, hurricanes, tornadoes, and earthquakes. We are a people that has a long history of reaching out to help.
A proverb I've liked: "If I cannot do great things, then I will do small things in great ways." (Don't know who wrote it, sorry.) Each person who lends a hand, a shoulder, a caring heart does something tangible. And all of those seemingly small acts, when taken together, can show the world, and ourselves, that we are greater, MUCH greater, than these attacks.
Re:Innocents.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe they were raised on anti-american propoganda, maybe you were raised on anti-arab propoganda, whatever... ignorance, misunderstanding and hatred is responsible for this insanity. The first defense against this crap is to try to understand where it's coming from. Even if this comes down to nothing more than "know your enemy", you would be well advised to find out a little bit about why palestinians hate the US so much.
The Internet has Helped (Score:4, Interesting)
What was really heartening was this:
http://www.worldtradecenter.com
Usually it's some jerk looking to make money. This person looks to be really trying to help.
gas hits $5/gallon, katz still insane (Score:2, Troll)
That would imply that there is an expectation of serious middle eastern turmoil.
Oh, and thanks for bumping that ass Katz. Maybe next time you'll have the sense to just remove that crap. Only a total fool would try to label this event "Techno-Armageddon".
Re:gas hits $5/gallon, katz still insane (Score:2)
Still doesn't seem real. (Score:3)
My God, what happened?
Re:Still doesn't seem real. (Score:2)
The kind of reality that many of the countries overseas have frequently have had to face, in some cases U.S. sponsored; in many cases not.
Re: My God, what happened? (Tragedy of the commons (Score:4, Interesting)
The ultimate "tragedy of the commons".
The United States has been a wonderful experiment in an open society. On
That last assumption may no longer be valid, and what that does to an open society, I have no idea.
On a slight side note, this does the Palestinians no good at all. If they really wanted sympathy and to affect US policy, they should have made a movie set on the West Bank, with everyday life as a backdrop. Instead they've merely upped the body count. (Presuming it's not Son of Timothy, and the data IS rather indicative.) While I agree that 'appeasement' doesn't work, I fear what may have been awakened in the US, and only hope our response, whenever it comes, is properly 'measured'.
Re:Still doesn't seem real. (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe some good can come out of this tragedy: I hope that Bush and the rest of the current administration get it through their thick heads that billion dollar strike fighter programs and missile defense systems mean about as much in the 21st century as black powder musket production would've meant at the beginning of the 20th century.
Hijackings, biological and chemical attacks, and yes, even net warfare are the new weapons of mass destruction. We will ignore them at our own peril.
If you value your democracy .... (Score:4, Informative)
VOTE!
Please remember that in many parts of the US today is an ELECTION DAY.
Bruce Davis
UNIX Systems Administrator
Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products
Burlington, MA USA
Re:If you value your democracy .... (Score:3, Informative)
And don't forget Poliglut (Score:2, Offtopic)
the middle east (Score:4, Flamebait)
Re:the middle east (Score:3, Insightful)
First and foremost, I do NOT think the actions today are justified; it was a horrible act, and furthermore, not just an terrorist attack, but an -act of war-. The US should retaliate, should find whoever committed the act, and show that we will not take this sitting down.
OTOH, we have to understand why this happened. It's hard to look at things rationally when something like this happens, especially when its a direct attack to our country, but we still do need to understand why things happens so we can prevent it later.
Here, let me use an analogy that (most) of you will hopefully understand. When Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold shot up Columbine High School, there were a lot of people (especially here) who said that their acts were horrendous, but they understood why they were committed: the boys were bullied and tortured constantly for years; they were finally getting revenge, kamikaze style.
That said, (from what i've read) the Palestinians are extremely angry at the US because we supply Israel with weapons, money, and generally advocate their actions, and Israel in turn torture Palestinan citizens and generally treat them like shit (for lack of a better term). This is their act of revenge, and although I say we should understand it, it should definitely not go unpunished. However, simply destroying Afghanistan (which we can without a doubtr easily do) will do no good.
Furthermore, here's my guesses on how things will pan out:
Assuming we bomb (or attack) Afghanistan (not just bin Laden) there will be further retaliation, and eventually start another war. If other countries don't get involved, that'll be it, and hopefully it'll end as quickly as the Gulf War. If other countries do get involved, I can easily see this turning into a World War III. Let me mention that we do -not- want a WWIII, simply because of the arms technologies available now. (Nuclear and atomic weapons, biological and chemical warfare, etc)
Anyways, that's it for now, focus back to CNN....
Re:the middle east (Score:5, Insightful)
You failed to mention that since that time, two US embassies and a US destroyer were bombed, and Islamic extremists were responsible. Heck, the last time the World Trade Center was attacked, it was Islamic militants. It would seem safe to say that OK City was the exception rather than the rule.
"Let's face it, there's a whole lot of people out there that hate the US, and for good reason (I was going to put a list here, but it's really just about everyone except Israel, Japan, Western Europe, and Canada)."
Iran is democratizing little by little and is interested in normalizing relations with us. Lybia is desparately trying to find a way to get back on our good side without taking credit for Pan Am 103 (and may end up doing it anyway). More and more Eastern European countries want to join NATO. Several countries in South America want to join NAFTA (and is more or less the impetus behind the FTAA).
In general, its quite safe to say that the US-haters out there are a very vocal minority. In fact, Americans abroad get a bad rap because we tend to assume that everybody hates us.
"it's about time they stood up for themselves."
You describe what they did as "standing up for themselves?" I'm not sure whether to be angry at you or pity you.
"And, before you say "economic domination does not merit this kind of response" - let me pose this question - what other way is there to respond when you are facing an opponent who has the money, owns the world legal system (has the money), and owns large numbers of world politicians (has the money)?"
"The money" you describe tend not to ride on commercial jets. "The money" tends not to work in the World Trade Center (they just do business through them). "The money" tends not to work above-ground in the Pentagon. And yet these people saw fit to kill all these incidentals.
"Furthermore let's hope American citizens wake up to what their government and corporations are doing around the world in time to prevent more of these attacks, before they happen, because that is the only way to eliminate the problem."
OK, let me get this straight: You imply that what was done today was because of the way we treat the rest of the world, especially civillians. You imply that civillians are killed or exploited or whatever by the US. THAT justified killing a whole mess of our civilians.
HOWEVER, having OUR civilians slaughtered by the thouands means we have to tip-toe where everybody else can violate Geneva conventions as they please?
While I agree we need to be tempered while deciding on a response, your "logic" is extremely two-faced.
the canadian border hasn't been sealed... (Score:4, Interesting)
My office building is right behind Lester B. Pearson Airport in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and it's usually very busy with airplane traffic. It's eerie now that there is none. The shock can be felt around the world. Deepest sympathies from Canada.
For those speaking German (Score:5, Informative)
Tagesschau [tagesschau.de]
Welt [www.welt.de]
Rheinische Post [rp-online.de]
Spiegel Online [spiegel.de]
Stern [stern.de]
All of these sites have good picture coverage for those who do not speak German. And they are way faster than all US sites at the moment!
Call for a new poll (Score:2)
I think that it would be cool if slashdot would use the poll to see what people, in general, are feeling about todays events.
Abnormally high backbone utilization? (Score:4, Insightful)
The data at Internet Health Report [internethealthreport.com] would lead me to believe that, other than a higher-than-usual web browsing traffic to specific sites, it's business as usual for the majority of the internet.
I'd like to see any contrary information, though.
Tech Disaster Links (Score:2)
VERY strange coincidence (Score:5, Interesting)
ian @ polpo . org
Re:Not so strange (Score:3, Insightful)
However, you seem to believe that the actions of those in another country condemn the innocent citizens of that country.
I certainly hope you are simply speaking irrationally and out of reaction to your anger. For your words here are morally reprehensible. The actions you propose are exactly analogous to the actions of the terrorists.
Daniel Lewin of Akamai died. (Score:5, Informative)
I copied this from here [akamai.com].
Farewell to the twin towers. (Score:5, Interesting)
Only a few short weeks ago I walked a couple of times across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges, to get some fresh air. I took a bunch of pictures of the evening New York City skyline. Amongst them were a couple of shot of the WTC towers. Little did I know that this would be the last time I'd see them.
Please see my short tribute to the World Trace Center towers:
/ farewelltowtc/index.html [geocities.com].
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/5799
God have mercy on these souls.
Re:Farewell to the twin towers. (Score:2, Interesting)
Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
Best source! (Score:4, Informative)
Stratfor [stratfor.com]
Concise, more comprehensive than anything else I've seen, and by far the best analysis.
Usually, they're a leading foreign policy website, focusing on 'intelligence' rather than 'news'.
Remember, the power of terrorists is terror -- don't let them win.
Ahem: Southern Canada (Score:2)
Re:Whitehorse Yukon (Score:2)
I was commenting on the story summary: it made it seem like they're *all* landing in Iqualuit and Churchill, and Whitehorse.
Now: I'm sure any Pacific flights will be diverted to the nearest location, and that would be Vancouver or Whitehorse.
Meanwhile, here in Toronto, Candian Blood Services and Sunnybrook Hospital are *packed* with people giving blood. This is a great thing to see! I'll be off to give blood tomorrow. Also, Mayor Mel has pledged emergency service support (firefighters, paramedics, etc) to NYC, which is also very good to see.
The two 747's that landed in Whitehorse (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, my report regarding the escorted landing of two 747's at Whitehorse International Airport:
11:42am A Korean Airlines cargo 747-400 landed using every inch of available runway
11:50am We spotted another inbound jet
11:52am A Korea Airlines passenger 747 landed coming down just 15 feet above the fence....an awesome and scary sight from only 100 feet away. 3 F-18's (hard to say, they were pretty high up) escorted them in and continued to circle Whitehorse's airspace.
Luckily Whitehorse's runway had just been extended to facilitate 747's last year.
Emergency vehicles kept their distance from both planes, the passenger plane having taxied back to the north end of the runway, as far away from the terminal as possible.
A gray truck approached the passenger plane, dispersing ground personnel to chalk the wheels, then fell in behind an officer wielding a long barreled weapon and backed up behind the officer to the truck and departed the scene
A ramp was brought to the aircraft but no one left for about 20 minutes (at 12:36pm) when a single male came down and walked towards the police vehicles (we could hear the occasional word from a police loudspeaker) he made it about half way when he was obviously ordered to lift his shirt up, turn around, lift his pant legs, then he removed the shirt completely, holding it over his head while continuing to walk towards the vehicles. People with binoculars were able to see several FBI jackets amongst the police. There was a lear jet nearby which was probably used to get the FBI here from Alaska (since as far as I know we don't have any resident FBI in Yukon).
At 12:43pm we were ordered away from the area by the RCMP. Apparently for 'our own safety' - we were on crown land, outside the airport's perimeter fence.
There is the possibility that we may be receiving up to 10 planes, but I have no idea where they could park them.
Further information available at:
http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/sept11_yukon-dow.
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSWorldTrade0109/11_whit
http://cbc.ca/
MSNBC: Nuclear Retaliation "Not Off The Table" (Score:5, Informative)
Further:
The entire article is copied below.
U.S. pondering its response
'No options taken off the table' -- senior U.S. official
By Michael Moran
MSNBC
Sept. 11 -- Reeling from the most devastating day of terrorist attacks in history, President George W. Bush and his advisors struggled on Tuesday to devise a response that would convey the depth of the outrage felt across the United States without appearing to lash out blindly.
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life -- mostly in New York City's World Trade Center, but also in Pittsburgh and Washington -- ensured that "no option has been taken off the table," senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean."
The nature and precision of the attacks, along with their unknown origin, left the United States with no useful precedents or contingency plans to fall back on. Procedurally, the attacks prompted officials to institute safeguards consistent with a state of war: Airspace over major American cities was cleared of commercial traffic and replaced by military interceptors; large, obvious targets like the White House, Capitol building, the Disney theme parks in Florida and California and the Sears Tower in Chicago, were evacuated. Most tellingly, the president, vice president, congressional leaders and other key government officials were spirited to secure, undisclosed locations -- an indication that the attacks achieved an astounding degree of surprise.
Indeed, many officials echoed the words of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet's commander, Navy Adm. Robert J. Natter: "We have been attacked like we haven't been attacked since Pearl Harbor." He then dispatched aircraft carriers to the waters off New York and Washington -- an unprecedented step -- to provide air cover.
HIGH ALERT
The United States military and its diplomatic organs quickly ordered steps consistent with imminent action.
President Bush placed American military commands around the world, including North American Air Defense Command, or NORAD, on their highest level of alert. Air Force One, carrying Bush, landed briefly at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, the home of Strategic Air Command, the nation's nuclear war fighting command, as well as the so-called "doomsday plane," a flying command post meant for use in case of a nuclear attack on America.
Ambassadors of the world's most powerful military alliance, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, scheduled an emergency meeting for 5 p.m. ET to discuss the crisis at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium.
While no public accusations of blame were made by the U.S. government, senior officials, along with experts on terrorism, were unanimous in their belief that the attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who leads the shadowy Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. "No one else but Bin Laden has the capability to do this is Bin Laden," one senior intelligence official said. "No one."
Bin Laden is living in Afghanistan as a guest of the Islamic regime there, the Taliban. The United States already has warned the Taliban that any act of terrorism on American soil by bin Laden or his followers would be regarded as an act of war.
That said, exactly how to hit out at bin Laden has been a continuing problem for the United States. U.S. intelligence agencies once tracked his movements within Afghanistan fairly reliably by eavesdropping on cell phone communications. Bin Laden has long since stopped using cell phones and is now said to sleep in a different safe house each night. Three years ago, after the dual bombings at American embassies in Kenya and Mozambique were tied to Al-Qaeda, the United States launched Tomahawk cruise missiles at suspected bin Laden training camps in Afghanistan and a plant in Sudan the CIA suspected of ties with him. Neither air strike did much to dissuade him. The U.S. suspects bin Laden's hand behind the April 2000 attack on the USS destroyer Cole in Yemen.
MILITARY OPTIONS
As President Bush weighs options, the difficulty of pinpointing bin Laden -- if in fact the United States decides he is responsible -- presents a dilemma. Among the options under active consideration:
Major retaliatory airstrikes: The United States could strike at Afghanistan with missile strikes -- possibly even tactical nuclear weapons -- to demonstrate its anger and the grave consequences of such an attack on U.S. soil.
Military invasion: The president could declare war on Afghanistan and order a buildup of forces similar to that which preceded the Gulf War in 1990. Such a move, however, would require the acquiescence of a neighboring state -- either Pakistan or one of the former Soviet Central Asian nations.
Manhunt: The Army's Delta Force or other assets could be inserted into Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden.
Proxy action: The United States could exert extreme diplomatic pressure on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, two states that have supported the Afghan Taliban in the past, to bring Bin Laden to justice.
'NO EASY ANSWERS'
Each and every one of these options has drawbacks, however, and those potential pitfalls will animate the debates of the coming days within the U.S. national security establishment. For instance, the use of nuclear weapons, in any form, risks alienating a world that is almost united in its revulsion at such attacks -- and whose help will be necessary in preventing future such attacks.
"The worst thing we can do is to completely lose our cool and overreact," said Sean Anderson, domestic terrorism expert at Idaho State University who studied the Oklahoma City bombing and the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.
"The best thing we can do is carry on, not to depart from our ordinary constitutional legal processes
Indeed, it is quite possible the United States will refrain from any immediate action until investigators have time to more thoroughly make the case against whoever directed the attack.
"There are not a lot of easy answers," former Secretary of State James Baker told NBC News. "The president, I think, did the right thing when he said 'we're under terrorist attack and we're going to hunt down those responsible.' "
Re:MSNBC: Nuclear Retaliation "Not Off The Table" (Score:5, Interesting)
My thoughts. (Score:2, Insightful)
My suggestion? I assume that there will be a fund set up to help those injured in these attacks, and their families. It may have been set up already. My suggestion - donate your tax rebates to this fund. I received a tax rebate from the UK government a couple of weeks ago - I intend to donate mine. It's the least I can do.
Take a deep breath... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now ask yourself:
What can I do to help?
What can I do to make sure nothing like this happens to ANYONE again?
What must I NOT do because it will just make things worse?
Take another deep breath...
Let it out slowly...
Now, go do what you know is right.
Stonewolf
Please, please do not let the US spin this! (Score:2, Informative)
Afghanistan being attacked (Score:2)
Re:Afghanistan being attacked (Score:5, Informative)
I saw this on one of the other discussions, but it deserves repeating for anyone that might have missed it: If you can't get CNN on TV, or you're stuck at work, you can read the CNN closed caption stream by pointing an IRC client to chat.cnn.com, and joining channel #CNN_Newsfeed
Re:if they know this is the source (Score:2)
Hmm. Sounds kind of like blowing up the World Trade Centre and murdering thousands of people because you dislike the policies of the US government, don't it?
Re:Afghanistan being attacked (Score:2, Informative)
<CC> JUST A SECOND, CNN WOLF
<CC> BLITZER IN WASHINGTON DOING
<CC> SOME REPORTING ON THE
<CC> PRESIDENT, THE PRESIDENT'S
<CC> ACTIVITIES WOLF, JOIN US,.
<CC> >> THANK YOU AARON33
<CC> WERE NOT PART OF THE U.S.
<CC> RETALIATORY STRIKE.
<CC> ONCE AGAIN A REPEATING
<CC> EXPLOSION THAT NIC ROBERTSON
<CC> BEEN REPORTING ABOUT IN
<CC> KABUL NOT PART OF ANY U.S.
<CC> MILITARY STRIKE.
<CC> CLEARLY INDICATING THIS IS
<CC> PART THE CONTINUING CIVIL
<CC> WAR THAT'S BEEN UNDERWAY IN
<CC> AFGHANISTAN NOW FOR
<CC> SOMETIME.
Just heard on CNN: knives and cardboard cutters. (Score:5, Informative)
Aditionally, I just heard, that Barbara Olsen, passenger on one of the planes, told her husband, that the terrorists were armed with no more than "knives and cardboard cutters". To me, this basically spells, that there is, no way, that it is virtually impossible to rule out forever a repeat of this kind of sickness. Of course, any kind of sharp object should and will be banned from any future flight,, but that just means they will have to invent a new type of weapon, one that will go undetected, like a wooden knive sheathed in a wooden sheath, together seeming a simple, harmless stick.
Smuggling simple weapons will be almost impossible to eliminate totally.
Some kind of military type fight seems to have broken out in/around Kabul. See other news sources for details.
Stefan.
Re:Just heard on CNN: knives and cardboard cutters (Score:4, Interesting)
I've heard all the Israeli passenger flights have a soldier on board. Can anyone confirm/deny that?
Re:Just heard on CNN: knives and cardboard cutters (Score:3, Informative)
Aditionally, I just heard, that Barbara Olsen, passenger on one of the planes, told her husband, that the terrorists were armed with no more than "knives and cardboard cutters".
Ummm...without trying to sound callous...how did CNN hear of this? Aren't all the passengers dead? Moderators, please READ the posts prior to hitting MODERATE. It helps.
The report I heard on one of the news stations was that Barbara Olsen called her husband from the plane to tell him that it had been hijacked. I believe that this was the plane that went into the Pentagon.
I have nothing to back this up other than what I heard on (I believe) CBS.
-Rob
Misc... (Score:5, Insightful)
I still find it difficult to bend my mind around the idea that today's attacks occurred not in Chechnya or Israel, but in the heart of American civilization. The very heart. I know, however, that America will survive this attack at punish those responsible. While perhaps "Pearl Harbor" is an extreme comparison, because we don't seem to be at war with a defined nation, it certainly will provoke almost as strong a change in public opinion and policy as that surprise attack.
Here at Macalester College in St. Paul, far far away from today's incidents, The state of MN has responded by shutting down the Mall of America and some of the larger buildings in downtown Mpls. and St. Paul. All over the cities, people are congregating, grieving for those lost and for the massive, mindless hatred and violence of today.
I think for millions of us, the most striking thing about this incident is its totally surreal nature. It is reminiscent of the end of Fight Club, or some kind of cartoonish super-villiany. The incident in Oklahoma City seemed far more within the realm of reality than "The destrucion of the WTC and a chunk of the Pentagon?!? Oh, please!"
In my opinion the best photo I've seen is located here. [btinternet.com] I suspect it'll be on the cover of TIME or Newsweek.
As for those of you angry with Mr. Katz for being trite: FUCK YOU! Thousands of people are DEAD and you have the balls to be angry with a man who's lost someone and prayed about it?! Only on the anonymous Internet would a person dare to tell someone they were being trite mourning a friend lost violently. You cruel bastards...
Oh on one last note, remember the trailers for the Spiderman movie? Will the scene with a bad-guy helicopter caught by a web between the WTC towers be kept for final theatrical release??
Breaking News: Afghanistan Bombing/AA fire (Score:3, Offtopic)
more info from cnn (Score:2, Informative)
CNN speculates that it is possible that the fighting could actually be infighting within afghanistan, and this may be civil infighting. No one has been able to pinpoint the missile's origin.
mod me? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hairbrained idea, mod up if you think it's good (please). Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
Re:Breaking News: Afghanistan Bombing/AA fire (Score:5, Informative)
CNN is reporting that the White House says those attacks in Kabul are part of their internal civil war and not a U.S. attack.
Another WTC building in NY has collapsed (Score:2, Redundant)
Retribution... (Score:2, Informative)
Looks just like Baghdad in 1991.
Re:Retribution... (Score:2)
People killing people is a viscious cycle. I know you're angry, now. I'm angry and I don't know how I feel about this. But ask yourself, "Is killing another human being, with family and friends just like you, ever the right thing to do."
I don't know the answer. But I know we need to answer it before we fight back.
--
give credit where credit is due (Score:2, Interesting)
"The Americans" - Original Script
"LET'S BE PERSONAL" Broadcast June 5, 1973 CFRB, Toronto, Ontario
Topic: "The Americans"
The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.
As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times
When the Americans get out of this bind
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.
This year's disasters
ORIGINAL SCRIPT AND AUDIO
COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.
(c) 1973 BY GORDON SINCLAIR
PUBLISHED BY STAR QUALITY MUSIC (SOCAN)
A DIVISION OF UNIDISC MUSIC INC.
578 HYMUS BOULEVARD
POINTE-CLAIRE, QUEBEC,
CANADA, H9R 4T2
Observations on secondary vs. primary news sites (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, I found that Slashdot was not the right source for news today. The news I got here was delayed (the stories) or hard to sift through (the posts). I found great fringe material (red cross info, missing persons sites, etc) and lots of mirrored material (thanks to all!) but it was diluted by speculation, rumor, flames and unchecked emotion. On the plus side, there was also support, prayers and many thoughtful discussions. Again, this diluted the news for better or for worse.
Instead, I found ananova to be the best site on the net today, with a simple, chronological list of relevent wire reports: ananova.com topic focus [ananova.com].
But I suspect I will find Slashdot to be the best site on the net for reflection over the next week or so.
Note, that this isn't criticism, but observation. Slashdot is more a community than a news source. This was an interesting mini-revelation for me today. Maybe Slashdot needs a QuickNews feature which lets stories go up faster (and get pulled down faster when proved inaccurate or inappropriate). I think a community run, up-to-the-minute news source would be valuable. Just some thoughts...
Re: (Score:2)
Kabul? (Score:2)
Two wrongs don't make a right. The civilians of Afghanistan deserve it no more than the civilians of New York.
Not the U.S. (Score:2, Informative)
My account (Score:5, Informative)
get a coffee and noticed that the air was full of papers, like a ticker tape
parade, then i saw that one of the wtc towers was on fire. I asked some guys in
another office what happened, they said that they had heard that a plane hit it.
A this point we were thinking small plane, accident. While we were
watching, all of the sudden we heard the second one and could see it really
low doing a steep turn. Then we watched it fly right into the second tower. At
that point it was obvious that this was not an accident. I thought, i'm on the
37th floor of one of the buildings cloest to the water, i'm getting the fuck out
of here. Grabbed my stuff went to the elevator. The first one was packed so
i took the stairs. When I got out of the building, i figured that I wanted to
get off the island. I usually take the ferry, but the one i catch is too close
to the wtc so I took the wall street one from the east side of the island. I
didn't care where it was going as long as it was New Jersey. I was pretty early
so i didn't have to wait too long. As my ferry was going up the Hudson beside
the wtc the first tower collapsed, it filled the whole downtown area with thick
black smoke about 100 ft high. I caught a train from Hoboken and got 3/4's of
the way home and the power failed. So i got
off and walked until i found a pay phone, cell phones pretty much didn't work. Called my wife and she
came and picked me up. We gave some other people rides home as well.
In all it was kind of exciting, very unreal and very horrible. I'm sure that the
horror of the whole thing will come out in the next few days.
Bombs in Afghanistan... (Score:2)
Hmmm... Someone is making loud noices in Afghanistan.
I hope it's not the US, and if it is, I hope they have a very good reason for it.
Was just listening to Swedish radio...
CNN: Explosions Seen, Heard in Kabul, Afghanistan (Score:3, Informative)
From CNN [cnn.com]:
did anyone else notice..... (Score:2, Offtopic)
Eerie.
CNN: (Score:2)
From CNN [cnn.com]:
The thing that scares me most. (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that in Pearl Harbor there was a *clear objective and "visible" enemy*.
WWI, WWII, were the same.
Desert storm/shield was quoted by Bush Sr as "not going to be another Viet-nam" for the simple reason that if you go in shooting and stay w/o a reason...you've lost already.
Is this the same?
This has elements of Perl Harbor because it has been brought to our soil, but the elements of Viet-nam are the "enemy" has yet to show himself...That *scares* the hell out of me, and makes me even angrier.
Moose.
Afghanistan under missile attack (Score:2)
I was watching TV News when the continuous repetition of the twin towers falling switched to images of missiles in the night and an explosion (very confuse), and the reporter said that those were images from Afghanistan, but it was unclear what was happening. More news about it anyone?
Link of pictures (Score:2)
I knew it would be bad, but a picture is definately worth a thousand words.
Theory (Score:2)
Obvious response... (Score:5, Funny)
Alternative to giving blood (Score:4, Insightful)
Gerv
MIRROR of video and pics (Score:3, Informative)
Some video that wasn't on the news [at least when I got it] and some pics that look to be from someone's digital camera nearby.
and I'm still trying to collect more videos and pics...
High resolution pictures from WTC (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.hiris.com/nycpics.htm [hiris.com]
Photos from Brooklyn (Score:3, Informative)
Some friends of mine watched the fire spread down the floors from the plane crashes before the towers collapsed.
http://www.kband.com/photo/ [kband.com]
High-resolution versions of these photographs are available on request.
An excellent from the View Askew message board (Score:3, Insightful)
You can hit it here [viewaskew.com]...
I don't subscribe to those sentiments personally, but I have to admit that reading that made me stop, set aside my anger for a moment, and do some serious thinking.
Open Letter to US/Americans (Score:4, Insightful)
September 11th, 2001
Open Letter to US/Americans
I'm not from the US. I'm not from Middle East, nor from any of the parties involved or suspected to be involved in the incidents of this morning.
Although those events are shocking and extremely sad, this letter is not directly about them. It's about what you think about them.
After reading, watching and listening news today, I started to focus on Internet discussion forums. I had reviewed several times the enumeration of facts, so I started to look for the opinion of the PEOPLE.
I was shocked to find (among the pain, grief, and will to help) rage, desire for revenge (I said revenge, which is not the same as justice), and pleas for a war. This letter (I won't hide it) is an intention to change that, through reason. I know you might not change your opinion after reading this, but consider that you have nothing to lose reading it (well, a little time, actually), and I'm saying that you have a lot to win (a slightly better world, if you ask).
First of all, rage won't lead you to a solution, and I think that's plain clear. Even if you think that retalliation is the appropiate response, you probably agree that even retalliation must be planned using brains, not blind rage. If you think about today events, the terrorists that had enough hatred to suicide on a plane are dead (the raging fanatics), while probably the intellectual authors of today crimes (those who use brains) are celebrating their success somewhere else. If you agree that then we have a starting point for discussion.
A lot of people are saying "It's the Palestinians!" "It's the Afgans!" "It's the (Insert your least favorite country here)!". And a whole country is being put at judgement there. But think twice, without the rage. Think it the opposite way. Suppose some US/American hijacks a plane and crashes it over a building in my country. Would you like to have people in my country saying "It was the Americans!"?. Would you like to have the blame put on you? Would you like to return to your home and see that your wife and kids have been murdered by a "retalliation bomber"? Would you like to pay for the crimes someone else comitted?
Well, Palestinians don't like that. Afgans neither. Nor US/Americans. Not Argentinians (if you were wondering where I am from). And it's clear that NOBODY likes it because it's not right, in the more basic forms. It's a feeling so basic that even people with very different visions of the world like you and Palestinians agree on it. And believe: In any country of the world, most people are innocent, harmless people who want to live quietly and in peace, like you. So don't blame a nation. Blame the (probably small) group of people who were behind this, and use the power that your opinion gives to get them found and judged like any criminal. Don't help turn this into a bloodshed where most of the blood belongs to innocent people.
And yes, I'm saying your opinion is power, so use it for good. If you have the democracy you say you have, then that's the way it should be. Terrorism works by using that power you have to turn it to a given goal, that is, turning you into their weapon. Don't be a weapon of the terrorists, don't help them. The way to fight this war it's not to lose our temper, and not start killing people randomly (like some people are starting to think after the outrageous attacks of this morning... remember that war always takes innocent victims). So act quickly, and swiftly, and make sure the responsible for this are punished, but if you start a war against innocent people you'll just gain more enemies than before, and this will never end.
If you believe on what I said, please, spread this message. Consider that the rage and violence I have seen means that the terrorists are already winning. Whoever did this obviously wanted that, so don't give it to them. Keep your power to yourself, and use it to make this a better world
Sincerely,
Daniel F Moisset
dmoisset@arnet.com.ar
Re:5th Plane (Score:2, Informative)
Re:5th Plane (Score:2, Informative)
Re:appreciate the info (Score:2)
This is probably some of the best work I've seen from the Slashdot editors. They've been putting up reliable information faster than some of the big sites. They're dedication in this case is appreciated.
Re:Afghanistan? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gas prices as a result (Score:2, Interesting)
Kirby
Re:Mexican Border / Canadian Border (Score:2)
You said it. Guess there are a lot of planes that got directed to land in what's usually flyover country. Wichita's hotels, according to the radio, are full, and they'll be putting Mid-Continent passengers (or unpassengers, as it turns out) in hotels clear out to Salina. Salina's something like an hour away. (But it's on I-70, so if you're not able to fly, at least you're on a major highway. Although I hear Greyhound isn't running now, either.)
Re:Explosions in Afganistan!! (Score:3, Informative)
The Taliban have been attacking targets just north of Kabul as recently as last night.
http://www.afghan-web.com/aop/today.html [afghan-web.com]
Re:You primitive Americans! (Score:2)
Re:WTF!?!?! (Score:3, Insightful)