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Robotech On DVD, Ghost in the Shell 2 144

Gendou_Knepper writes: "The ancient and beloved proto-anime classic, Robotech, is being brought to DVD by AD Vision at only $15 per six-episode disc. Check out the article at the new official site. On a side note, the original Japanese version, Macross, is being brought to us by the wonderful folks at Animeigo." Now if only someone would do the same for Starblazers (in Region 1 anyway)... also interesting, moonboy submitted an AICN story linking to info about Ghost in the Shell 2 .
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Robotech on DVD, and Ghost in the Shell 2

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  • Why exactly would Robotech be called Proto-Anime? If anything it DEFINED the genre.

    Back in an age where Transformers, G.I. Joe and Thundercats were all I had to look forward to after school, you can imagine just how amazed I was to see Robotech for the first time. Believe it or not, it sent me down a different path, and totally changed the way I saw animation.

    Personally, I'd like to see a remake of Macross someday. The quasi-realistic militaristic bent of this space opera is not something I've seen duplicated since. The military in this feels like it could be our own, just in the future, everything else is set so far ahead that it's not even the same civilizations being dealt with.

    On a side note: Remember how inadequate the animation was, compared to today anyways? How hard would it be to take something like this, and somehow use a computer to turn it from 10-15 frames a second to 25-30? Couldn't you just somehow invent a way to take two existing frames and fill in the logical gap between them? Turn that cheap animation into good animation!
  • I'd have to agree fully. Recently I also rented some Starblazers tapes, excited to relive those youthful memories of quality programming. Boy, talk about selective memory. Starblazers is barely entertainment by today's standards. Sure, the story is 'continuous', but there's so much padding in the production that each 30 minute episode could probably be summed up in about 5 minutes by modern standards.

    Add to that the fact that the animation style is extremely 'economical' (to put it kindly) and it doesn't compare too favorably to modern fare. Sure, the story continued from one episode to another, but it took about 6 episodes to equal the plot we have nowadays.

    Add (again) to that the weakness of anime in general - the plots really never survive the translation from Japanese - I think that the west & east have fundamentally different ideas about what constitutes a 'story' (but that's part of the fun) - and it's pretty hard going.

    On the other hand, compared to what was out at the time it was at least an improvement. Except for Johnny Quest (which holds up very well by - far less dated) Starblazers was the only thing out there that at least acknowledged the fact that there were kids watching cartoons beyond the age of 8.
  • Macross Plus was a 4 part OAV. And Robotech is a great show. I'm really skeptical of your assessment of Robotech and Macross Plus considering you don't even know how many episodes the OAV of M+ is.
  • Shame the website says "No Canadian/International Orders"

    That's crap... anybody knows 'bout where to get StarBlazers in Australia?

  • Now, I have no idea what the whole beef with Carl Macek is. I vaguely know who he is, and I only know bits and pieces, and I'm not even sure I have those right. So, honestly I don't know enough about the situation to pass judgment.

    But... you know what... I DON'T CARE.

    Robotech was a series I fell in love with when I was a kid, and it will always hold a special place in my heart. I don't think I will ever learn to hate it, even if I find out that Carl Macek is the spawn of the Devil, or he orchestrated the German Holocaust, or he's the secret head of the RIAA going after Napster, etc. After all, this series had it all: Action. Adventure. Aliens. Robots. Outer space. Lasers (or whatever those weapons were called). Cool spaceships and space fighters that transform. And, of course, female characters who kick ass and look damn fine while doing it. :) It is what got me "into" anime -- years later, when I was in college, I remember getting into one of those random conversations with a new dormmate friend of mine, and we got around to the subject of "TV shows I liked as a kid", and I mentioned Robotech, then he turned to me and said "Ohhhh, then you'll LOVE this..." and shoved a BubbleGum Crisis tape in my hand (which is now another of my all-time anime favorites).

    A few months ago, I tracked down one of my old childhood buddies (ok, I ran into him quite by accident at the local Kinko's), and we got to talking about old times (he and I were grade school friends, and yes, he was into RT too). On a whim I asked him if he happened to have any tapes.. and amazingly enough, he did!! (not very many, and they were all quite crappy quality-wise) So I decided to "test" myself to see if my increased age and awareness of other sources of anime would color my impressions of this series. Yeah, parts of it do seem kinda hokey now, but largely it still holds the same allure as it did when I was a kid.

    I have been WAITING and LOOKING and HOPING that someone would release this someday... videotapes would have been great, but DVD is EVEN BETTER!!! So I am glad that it is finally happening. Woohoo!!!

  • I guess I'm one of the old timers - I used to trade for 5th generation fansubs in the mid 80's - before you could rent anime at Blockbuster (anyone remember Heavy Metal: L-Gaim?). Anyway, this year looks really good for anime fans... The classic old-school series, Mobile Suit Gundam (along with a number of sequels and spin-offs) are also coming to DVD and the Cartoon Network sometime soon!

    http://www.gundamofficial.com/uc/uc_index.html [gundamofficial.com]

    "Big O" is also a new DVD series worth checking out, it's a sort of "BATMAN meets GIANT ROBO"

    http://www.ex.org/5.1/13-anime_bigo.html [ex.org]
  • Fair enough, not all dubs are bad, but I can honestly say that I have only ever seen one anime that had a good dub (and I can't remember what it was). In my opinion subs are usually much better, take the dubbed version of Akira for example with the voice actors trying to say long sentences in the same time that it takes to say them in Japanese, nightmare!
  • In the early-mid '80s I followed Robotech all around the schedule trying to catch all the episodes, that were even shown out of order. No wonder it didn't catch an audience in my market. We don't need a dvd release, we need a proper run on the cartoon channel, or something.
  • Nausicaa
    The castle of Cagliostro
    Galaxy Express 999
  • Battle angel alita didnt follow the manga, and it was canned by the creator. He hated the results.

    Eva has 3 endings, which one are you reffering to?

    The better ending for akira is in the manga, which the anime -barely- followed

    Macross plus is a four part series. There is already a part two


  • Just to back up the anime companies that _do_ use region encoding..

    Im in touch with a fairly large percentage of people in the anime biz, and everyone hates macrovision and region encoding. The only reason its ever used on anime disks is when the japanese DEMAND it in the contract. Otherwise they try to avoid it like the plague.

    There are alot of region 0 anime dvds

    all your fanservice are belong to us.
  • Heh, if you want more plot you should try reading the original manga.
  • Of course you can fit more than 6 per disc but at what price/quality ? It depends on the type of DVD you use (the cheapest ones (on a per gig base) are the smallest [approx. 4gig?]) If you want to put more eps. on a DVD with the same size you have to reduce the bitrate which leads to a worse picture. Go figure...
  • Just my two cents: I've always though that a lot of classic(Tm) sci-fi novels should be made into japanimation -- The Foundation Series, Ringworld, Helliconia Series or Dune are my candidates!
  • For all the techies out there, please tell me I wasnt the only one who picked up on the fact that it's an Athlon system being offered (yes I know it's a troll) but it's got RDRAM. I didnt even need to read more than the first sentence to figure that one out


  • Really, what would make me happy is if they made a version that took out all of that Mimei shit... either that or replaced her with a classic anime chick.. you know, the one that gets molested by the Invid or what have you. She really irritates me. Or just get rid of the singing. That would be so much better.

    That said, I've been on the preorder list for 3 days now. I can't wait.. and at such a reasonable price. I was scared they were going to charge 50 bucks a disc or some crap like that.

  • Well that's the thing: I've pretty much checked out what people say is good and the only anime I actually really liked was "Berserk".

    Don't get me wrong here - I'm not saying all the previously mentioned stuff is crap, but stuff like Cowboy Bebop is just extremely good saturday morning cartoons. Evangelion had terrific voice acting and pretty good animation, but the story and the gobs of filler shows just made me puke; Lain.. Lain was OK, but it pretends to be philosophical without saying anything at all.

    What I'm really trying to say is that anime isn't crap -- it just isn't what all the american fanboys and geeks like to say it is.

    What's interesting though, is that a lot of older anime portrays sex roles like bond movies (especially older ones). I've noticed that newer anime is getting over it (besides the ever present jiggling tits and scant clothing) -- and one has to wonder if that says anything about change in japanese culture (yeah I know, thats like japanese people watching wwf and judging us).

  • sucks because
    1. they normally get us/canada only licenses
    2. they only release box sets (which i can't afford)

    I'd really love to have the Urusei Yatsura DVDs but I can't afford these Box sets, so I would rather want to buy one DVD per month.
    (Or maybe even two DVDs per month would be ok)
    And because I live in germany they won't send me the box sets anyway (stupid licensing issue)
  • He is referring to Macross+ The Movie which was a summary of the four part series.
  • Too bad that when it went into reruns, the networks decided not to show them in order. Doesn't make sense, but hey....

    And it did get a little stale when the series went into "gargoyles world tour" mode..

  • That is why the aliens where so scare of Minmei singing, they almost had a heart attack.

    Aaaah, yes, the Minmei attack.

    Then again, considering the talent of the voice actress (rumors have it she was drunk a few times while singing), it's not easy to be scared by her. That the American version has a rather untalented musical star rising high is a bit of irony, considering the general lack of talent seen in many of our own rising "musical stars."

  • I'm confused... I've got 2 episodes so far:

    Click Here [amazon.com]
  • 1) So far as I know, Gundam came later. Robotech is more than twwnty years old, and I am not sure how much earlier the original Japanese serieses are. I am willing to believe that there are other populare Japanese catoons that came earlier, and that there are other mech shows that came earlier; just name one...

    2) I do realize that Robotech is a purely American phenonmenon, but it was still one of the first Japanese cartoons to become popular in the US, however butchered it might be.

  • I'm not sure what they are doing on the DVDs, but the tapes with 6 episodes each are edited even from the TV version (assuming that you are refering to the FHE version). They took on average 5 minutes per episode out so that 6 episodes would be 90 mins long. I was one of the first people to sign up for animeigo's subbed macross and will most likely buy the Robotech DVDs too, because I grew up with them. I loved the concept of the "Robotech Perfect Collection" that they did a few years ago with 2 episodes in Japanese and then 2 in English. Interesting to compare. The Japanese episodes were always better by several orders of magnitude. Better voice actors, more sensible plot, etc. Unfortunatly they only released 8 tapes of SDF Macross, and 7 tapes each of SDC Southern Cross, and GC Mospeada before the company went belly up. I wonder if anyone will ever release Southern Cross (which in Japan was cancelled for sucking so bad) or Mospeada in Japanese. Animeigo preferably, but they have that whole geologic release timescale problem. (Macross was supposed to be out almost a year ago, and who knows if it will really come out in summer 01)
  • Interesting fact that DVD has become the standard format for video release. I buy them because I want them to stay around. Why boycott a format that can be backedup. If everyone boycotted the format then production would drop off and the MPAA would be able to market another divx type of media. I personally get a kick outta buying every DVD cause I know how to rip them and that has to piss the MPAA off :)
  • The problem with that is that they would have to put both the American and Japanese episodes on the DVD seperatly. Robotech frequently reordered scenes and episodes (especially in Southern Cross) so. I don't know if you have the Perfect tapes (I do), but if you do watch them some time. Southern Cross tape one is the best example if I remember correctly (I haven't watched Southern Cross in a couple of years though; dull as toast) If you want the Japanese for Macross, preorder it from Animeigo [animeigo.com]
  • The three series were really well done for their time. I dreamed of getting one of those valkries, and had to wait until I scored a used Spitfire at a garage sale. That series was great.

    Also, I lived in Japan for several years, and I remembered cartoons about a ship with this big-ass gun on the front end, but never knew the name of the show. Thanks guys, this brings back memories I thought I would never experience again.

    Now, does anyone know of a japanese cartoon where everyone pilots a huge robot, and the women robot fire missles out of their breasts? That was the other cartoon that I loved to watch growing up (in japan). And no, I am not japanese-- my dad was in the navy.

  • by JoeLinux ( 20366 ) <joelinux@NOSPaM.gmail.com> on Monday February 26, 2001 @07:09PM (#399603) Homepage
    I've been waiting 4 years for a GITS2. Now if someone would only finish Battle Angel Alita, make a non-crappy ending to both Neon Genesis Evangelion and Akira, and make a Macross+ part two, I could die a happy man.


    ...those who can, program...those who can't, manage
  • by Caraig ( 186934 ) on Monday February 26, 2001 @07:09PM (#399604)
    "Here lies Carl Macek, died while trying to make a Robotech video. Man, he must have really f***ed up."

    Not sure where that's from, but it seemed appropriate. =)

    Most non-otaku don't realize that Robotech was three series: Superdimensional Fortress Macross, Superdimensional Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada. All were done by the same animation house, but Macross and Southern Cross were actually designed by the same guy. He also did a third "Superdimensional" series, Orguss, which is also out on tape. (Makes you wonder why Macek just didn't pick up all three of the Superdim. series and glom THEM together. We should count ourselves lucky....)

  • ZDP--thanks!
    As another Star Blazers fan who's been waiting for the series to come out on DVD, I really appreciate your post. Enough talk--time to go promote e-commerce.
    Earth has only [insert random 3-digit #] days left....
    Thanks again... :o)
  • Starblazers was such a cool show. Why can't American cartoons have an ongoing plot lines that are longer than the two part stories on ScoobieDoo?
  • If you want an American cartoon with a long plot-line go watch "Gargoyles". 52 episode plot arc, and from Disney yet!
  • by Daemosthenes ( 199490 ) on Monday February 26, 2001 @07:10PM (#399608)
    The thing that struck me most when watching Ghost in the Shell was the traditional Japanese? soundtrack. It really all came together to add amazing atmosphere to the movie. My greatest hope for the sequel is a soundtrack of equal or better quality, as that is really what is still captured in my mind from the first.

    47.5% Slashdot Pure(52.5% Corrupt)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    On a side note: Remember how inadequate the animation was, compared to today anyways? How hard would it be to take something like this, and somehow use a computer to turn it from 10-15 frames a second to 25-30? Couldn't you just somehow invent a way to take two existing frames and fill in the logical gap between them? Turn that cheap animation into good animation!
    There already is. It's called interpolation.
  • Did anyone get that Ghost in the Shell 2 site mirrored before it went down hard?
  • Using the term "proto" makes perfect sense -- it was one of the defining pieces of the medium (note: anime is not a genre, it is a medium; several genres contained within the medium of anime might include: Mecha, Shojo, Hentai, and Fantasy); Robotech was also one of the first shows to incorporate giant mecha and the first that became popular in the US. To call it "proto-anime" implies that it is one of the early foundations of the medium, which (esspessially in the US) is what it is.

  • Good points.

    My personal favorite is 'Akira'. Why?

    In American movies, things explode, buildings collapse... eh. The people always dive out of the way Just In Time, and we feel safe.

    Akira removes that boundary. When buildings collapse, people are crushed into puddles. When a character is in danger (Kaori), she doesn't miraculously escape -- poof, she's squished into soup.

    I'm not saying I'm a bloodthirsty ogre -- I'm just struck by the honesty of the violence. (Yeah, I know, honesty goes along with mutating bubblegum-flesh and orbital laser platforms.)

    Also, it was a wonderfully pretty movie, even on the crappy VHS copy I have. Can't wait for the DVD. And I liked parts of the soundtrack a lot. (Some parts were just too weird... or "traditional", you might say.) And whoever did the English voice of Colonel Shikishima kicked serious ass.

    Not to mention my list of reasons why Princess Mononoke was spectacular. I know... these are exceptions. But when anime is good, it's *spectacularly* good, at least for me.

    As a side note, I appear to have developed a fetish for girls with pink, red, purple or blue hair. Must... cut... down!

    -grendel drago
  • With the resurgence of Robotech (heard they are
    making a 3D Robotech ala Transformers), what's
    the chance of reviving the Sentinels storyline?

    I read the books, and they would be awesome (read
    some of the comic books based on the outlines too).
  • The quote I think your thinking about comes from a Pine Salad production (parody dubbing) of The Dirty Pair Does Dishes... "Here lies Carl Macek, after being executed after a showing of Robotech The Movie. Man, he must have really f***ed up." Refering to the awful combination of Megazone 23 Part 1 and Southren Cross.
  • Is the tool of the devil.
  • Well.. that would rock! For Christmas I got a $50 Gift Certificate to Suncoast or any of their derivatives, which you can also use online. So I went there and poked around and decided I was in the mood for some anime. I came onto Slashdot and read the 'Akira coming to DVD' story in hopes of finding peoples preferences (I own a VHS copy of Akira and love it.. but thats about it for my anime exposure) so based on everyones recommendations I picked up Ghost in the Shell on DVD. Very cool movie. (It was a tough call, GitS or Vampire Hunter D)

    Anyways, I was unaware that this was originally a comic book/magna piece. Weird since I also am a reformed but still interested comic nerd. What am I doing? I must be slipping.

    Anyways, I brought in GitS to work since we have a little DVD Exchange (actually I just loan mine out since everyone else has about 4 movies each, and everyone has a copy of Gladiator..[except for me, but thats another post altogether] while I have about 40 DVDs) and brought in Ghost in the Shell and everyones reaction was the same 'I don't think I can watch a cartoon' ARRRRGHH!!! I had one guy broken down.. I said 'for the love of god its only like 70 minutes long and you won't be disappointed'.. so he took it, but then it never left his car... ass....

  • They put episodes 1-10 out on DVD in region 1... Course they are in english, but they claim to have scenes that were not in the originals.. Like the scene on the history of the Yamamoto... Where it gets sunk by American Warships. I agree though, I'd like to see the Japanese version(prefereably subtitled for us cretins). ;)
  • I already own the macross set , 6 episodes per tape. What's the DVD going to do for me? I'd rather them finish the sentinals series and do the movie they always promised...
  • ADV are also getting flamed for their handling of Farscape. Two one hour episodes per DVD with a list price of $24.98. They could fit at least three on a disk and they're whining that they can afford to ship a boxed set of the first season because the sales wouldn't be big enough. The first Farscape DVD is rank #44 on Amazon's DVD sales; so much for low volume.
  • Come over to the dark side. The first two DVD sets of "Thunderbirds" came out on DVD today. Now there's action/adventure for you!
  • I already have a wall scroll for GiTS 1, and would love to get my hands on another for 2
  • Disk 3 goes on sale today. Supposedly, the bonus material is a "virtual tour" of the Argo/Yamato. They aren't including all that much "cut" footage, and (un)?fortunately, they aren't including all of the "tune in next week" footage, either; the episodes mostly run into each other, with the occasional "recap" bits.

    I wonder if when they do 3rd season, they might include some of the cut Yamato season two footage that shows exactly who got killed and how... ;-)

  • by Anonymous Coward
    The manga is out anyway. Helps if you can read Japanese though, but even if you can't, the target audience will appreciate the gratuitous art...

    http://members.tripod.co.uk/masamune_shirow/gits /g sb.html

    The only place I've found in English that sells it, (limited edition box set available only in Japan) is http://www.otaku.com
  • I just checked out the official Robotech site [robotech.com]. However, I find it most disturbing that on the front page I see:
    • "By using this Web site, you are agreeing to the Terms of Use."
    Yikes. To me, that's much like a shrink-wrap license (where the license terms are only listed inside the package), as there's no way I could have even seen the Terms of Use without going to the website first!

    Alex Bischoff
  • If you're talking about the 6 volume Robotech series, with 6 episodes a tape, this *should* include a lot more. Like the other 40-50 episodes that were shown after the Macross portion
  • *spoilers*

    Yeah. I actually liked the ending. It was much better than the stupid love triangle plot and the incessant whining from Shinji and Asuka. It was a sort of dialectic that showed Shinji coming of age (I think).

    I haven't actually seen the death, rebirth, and end episodes 'cause the aren't out here on DVD yet, but I'm pretty much satisfied with the original ending.
  • You can hope they Finish Battle Angel, but you better hope that they start from the beginning.

    The anime is very different from the manga, so different that I'd say that apart from a complete plot rewrite (something very bad), they could not continue/finish the story properly. That and 30 Minute OAVs was WAY too short to catch all that is Battle Angel.

    Go get the manga (9 volumes from Viz, translated), it's better than the OAVs could ever be.
  • Ironic, since ADV is widely hated for their handling of the Evangelion dub (it's why Gainax is such an ass to them, moreso than to any other company).

    And ADV has been pissing fans off with overlays (on Eva disc 1 and Nadesico where japanese writing is erased in favor of english, the equivalent of a visual dub). Never mind the change of Kenshin to Samurai X...

    And no, Gainax would sooner license FLCL to anyone BUT ADV. But why wait, buy the R2 release, it has subs. That's one of the primary reasons no US company has been in too much of a hurry to get it.

    As for ADV, they're improving, but they're not the be-all and end-all of Anime DVDs.
  • Um, the soundtrack was everything but traditional, Japanese or otherwise.
  • That does sound like an interesting idea. Even though Foundation doesn't have many action scenes, I imagine that all of Asimov's different planetary settings (Trantor has lots of potential...) and technology would more than make up for it in terms of visual content. And Dune could be very cool, if only to hear all the psuedo-arabic vocabulary rendered in Japanese. Watching the new SciFi channel series with the Jules Verne theme makes me think his books might be cool in an animated form too.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26, 2001 @08:14PM (#399631)
    Oh the poor linux geeks, they hate the MPAA and their region codeing and content scrambleing and developer sueing and government lobbying, but when it comes down to it, you all just rush out and buy the latest crap. You can bitch about it all you want, but if at the end of the day you buy some DVDs, the MPAA will just laugh and count the profit.
  • After seeing the special "making of" Ghost in the Shell, I immediately went out and bought Patlabor 2 and I have to say that it is probably the best anime out there. I'm a sucker for the quiet musical pondering moments found in both Patlabor 2 and Ghost in the Shell.
  • Did anyone every play the Robotech RPG???

    I used to _love_ the southern cross stuff. awesome!
  • How did this get modded up? Every single website (with a few exceptions, including /.) has a terms of use. Are you just catching on to this?!

    Well, anyway, enough berating. You are correct in your comparison to shrink-wrap licenses. However, unlike shrink-wraps, which are bolstered by laws like UCITA and certain case law, the website terms of use are probably not enforceable in a court of law. (At least one would hope not.)
  • You can buy the soundtrack here:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000076D 8/ joyo96/103-5812586-2823851
    http://www.animesolutions.com/anime_music_cds/gh os t_in_the_shell_01.shtml

    It's a great CD
  • Yes, there are two distinct types of Proto-Culture.

    Protoculture the Entity In the beginning Zor, of the Robotech masters set out on a Space Folding search for other "cultures" and exploration. He came across a small planet (Earth) devoid of reasonable life and found a plant with AMAZING powers. He stripped the entire planet of it and brought it back to his galaxy. The flower did not bloom well on his home plante so he set forth to plant it on other worlds (such as the Invid homeworld) to see how it reacted. The "Flower of Life" as it was named was spread throughout the Universe by Zor and it was harvested by the now power greedy Robotech Masters whom lusted for the power in the flowers juices (now called Protoculture). Battles began to break out over control of the Flower.

    Actually, as I learned it, Zor seduced the Regis (the Queen of the Invid), who were then a peaceful race in symbiosis with the Flower, and he got the secrets of Protoculture from her. He had already been experimenting with extracting energy from plants, but the flower of Life was on an order of magnitude greater. When the Republic of Tirol (his people) got hold of it, the evil Senator Nimuul and his cronies used it to conquer first their people, then most of the galaxy, calling themselves the Robotech Masters. They used Protoculture, which also has powerful mutagenic / pschotropic properties, to create the Zentraedi, a race of giant warrior-clones brainwashed into beng their obedient and dependant slave underclass. The first mission of the Zentraedi was the razing of the Invid Homeworld. They were sent to take every last flower. The Invid, being dependant on the Flower, basically went berserk over this cruelty and mutated themselves into a race of fanatical warriors led by the Regent (consort to the Regis), and they then waged war on the Robotech Masters for millennia. The Zentraedi and Masters had technology and resources, but the Invid had sheer numbers and even greater ferocity and determination, so the war dragged out. The Regis was just as bitter as the Regent, realizing how Zor had betrayed her trust, though in fact Zor was just another naive scientist putting the keys of power into the hands of evil (how apropos for /.).

    Zor, whom died at one such battle against the Invid instructed his General (Breetai) on his last breath to send the SDF1, which contained the secrets of the Flower of Life and Protoculture to Earth so that it would be out of the hands of all in conflict over the Flowers power.

    This is incorrect. Zor had a small faction of Zentraedi whom he secretly subverted (via music, emotion, culture etc.) to be loyal to HIM and not the Robotech Masters. His flagship, the SDF-1, contained the ONLY Protoculture Matrix in existence. He commanded his loyalists to take it to Earth, which he had never visited. However, while on the planet Haydon IV, he had a protoculture-instigated vision of the Earth as the nexus where this conflict would come to its end. He foresaw the Regis's final transmutation in this dream, and knew that this possible outcome was the last remaining hope for peace in the galaxy. So his loyalists sent the SDF-1 beyond the Robotech Masters' grasp, shortly before Zor was slain by the Invid. Breetai, in fact, did NOT know where it was sent, which is why it took him so many decades to hunt it down. In fact, as Zor lay dying, he said that if he had not sworn to protect him, he would kill him then and there.

    That's when the SDF1 crash landed on Macross island in 1999.

    See, the Masters had to pursue the SDF-1, because they were now wholly addicted to the Protoculture, as well as requiring it to drive the war against the Invid. The only Protoculture Matrix was on board, and no new Protoculture Energy could be extracted without it - they had only their reserves to go on. This made the SDF-1 literally the most prized possession in the galaxy - and it landed squarely in the lap of an Earth in the middle of World War III.

    Add to this, that the Earth, being the planet in Zor's vision, is in fact the only remaining planet in the galaxy where the Flower can grow, and you can see why the Earth gets invaded 3 times!

    What a cool way to start a story!!

    (whew) whatta mouthful! But I thought someone might be interested in the in-depth story.


  • This is just lovely, Oshii[sp?] is gonna take another story by Shrio and strip every last ounce of humor out of it. Leaving the main character a boaring, brooding, 2 dimensional killing maching.


  • ./ed.
    does someone have a working link ?
  • I thought Starblazers was out on DVD. I had a friend tell me it was. I am thinking of collecting all 3 Starblazer series. I liked all three of them.
  • Ah yes, the good old "everyone who doesn't like what I like must be stupid" line... Mustn't you sub elitists feel lucky that you can even give it a pseudo-objective backing?

    The truth is, film is mainly a visual medium, and subtitles seriously reduce the attention you can give to the visuals, unless you are one of the few people blessed with very sharp peripheral vision. And subtitles aren't how the creator of the original intended you to watch the movie - he intended it to be seen in a language to audience understands, unmarred by text at the bottom.

  • What you are saying makes a lot of sense, but I don't think that it would be possible to like all anime any more than it would be possible to like all novels. Anime is a medium defined by (1) being animeted and (2) from Japan. This medium includes many genres, including sci-fi and romance; much of it is utter crap and some of it is incredibly good. This is true of any medium -- there are good films and bad films, good books and bad books, etc.

    It is also important to remember that different people have different taste. I, for instance, really love both EVA and Cowboy Bebop. I agree that Cowboy Bebop would make a wonderful Saterday morning cartoon, I don't see why that is a bad thing. I agree that EVA is wonderfully animated and I found the story to be captivating... but I also like the movie 2001 a lot, and many people don't. It is simply a matter of taste.

    What I find irksome is when people say "The only anime I like is..." or "I don't like anime because it is [violent | full o' sex | etc.]." That is like saying "The only movie I like is..." or "I don't like movies becaue they are [violent | full o' sex | etc.]."

  • Must be you. I didn't notice any gratuitou tit shots. Presumably because I wasn't specifically looking for them...
  • Think of good anime not as "exceptions," but as part of any medium.

    Don't expect something to be good just because it is anime. Like any other medium (books, photographs, paintings), the majority of anime is crap, and of what is not crap, there is little common ground as to what is good. Do you go to American movies thinking that they are all good, or do you go thinking that it might be somewhat entertaining? There are good American movies and there are a whole lot more bad ones. Same goes for Japanese movies; and American cartoons; and (heaven forbid) Japanese cartoons.

  • Crap. Read my #67. I've heard other people claim that a subtitle is less of a disturbance than a voiceover. Get real; subtitles are like banner ads, if you understand the original language you can easily follow the movie without noticing the titles. You lose a part of the screenestate, yeah. But voiceovers totally mess up the *entire* soundtrack, completely change the personality of the character, and unless done very well, they also just don't fit in. Maybe you're right and it is just a matter of personal taste -- but I think that honestly a subtitle is much less interfering with the viewing experience and the director's vision. I'd rather have the sweet, exotic language of an undubbed anime than a japanese backdrop overlayed with some LA/NY style "hey yo wassup how ya doin'" with the phattest accent imaginable.
  • Damn Robotech was a sweet cartoon. I was totally into the roleplaying game and tried my hardest to get all the episodes i could. 3rd gen was my fav.. those cyclone's were badass I would totally buy all of the series if they came out on DVD
  • I remember being 5(yes 5) and watching starblazers and force 5 every morning before kindergarden. Then getting to school and pretending I was one of the star vengers or grandizer or Gai King. Man I miss those shows. I did manage to get the 2nd Starblazers DVD (currently only 3 are available) the video is horrible, but I'm betting the masters of the american release weren't in very good condition.

    my $0.02

  • I've got two volumes, I believe there's a third. Disk two has the historical restrospective on the sinking of the Yamato. That's pretty cool.
  • I personally LOVED the original ending to the series. Sad thing is, I almost didn't get to watch it, since my friend doesn't want to admit that the real ending even exists...but that's another story.

    Hmmmmmm....I could probably stand to watch that (and some "Kenshin") once again....
  • I was unaware of animosity between Gainax and ADV. Thanks for the info. I guess that I am one of the few (only?) people on the planet that was fairly happy with the Eva Dub. Oh well...no need to debate opinion, right?

    About the FLCL being subbed, you are quite correct, with the exception of the first episode. That doesn't stop me from owning the first 4 though (having friends in Japan can be a good thing). However, I have seen a fan-sub of the first episode, and it is great stuff. I am only reminded that I need to keep studying my Japanese. ^^;;

    I understand fully about the anger in the overlays in Nadesico. However, I still feel that the dubbing of that was excellent. As far as Kenshin, AFAIK ADV had no choice but to change the title because Anime Works beat them to the liscensing of the title "Rurouni Kenshin". However, I may be mistaken. Anyway, their dubbing of that was pretty horrible, but it is nice to be able to own all 4 episodes of the Kenshin OVAs for ~$40US vs. however much you will pay to get them from Japan.

    I guess the main reason that I would like to see a US release of FLCL is because it currenly goes at about $35 per episode in Japan. Face it, Anime is cheap in the US, especially on DVD (I just bought my friend in Japan the Magic Knight Rayearth box set because it is so much cheaper here than there, plus he wanted the English dubs so he could practice his English comprehension...in exchange he sent me FLCL). Plus, I see the *potential* for a very good and very funny English dub.

    My apologies for not being a subtitle-nazi. I have found somethings to be better in English than the Original Japanese, and vice versa (I am mainly referring to the sounds of the voices vs. what is actually said as my Japanese if only about 1 word/phrase in 5-10 right now).
  • Wow. That's a great price!

    One of the things I don't like about series anime DVDs is that it costs so much to watch. Like, I saw Neon Genesis: Evangelon (sp?) for $28 for three episodes (saw it in the stores, haven't checked online). Now that's a lot, especially if you need to buy a whole bunch of them.

    12 episodes for $30...6 episodes for $60. Ouch. Anime needs to come down in price.
  • What's with this "in Region 1 anyway" crap? You, of all people, would be the one that I would have thought rebellious enough to get a regionless DVD player. I mean, I did. And it even plays MP3 CDR's! It's not like they are that expensive. Yes, this could be considered a troll, but it's my honest feeling. I would have thought that CmdrTaco, with all his vast wealth, would have invested in a reasonable DVD player that didn't limit his viewing capabilities. I don't know, call me idealistic...
  • So I just have to know. What the devil is this stuff supposed to be, anyway?
  • If they don't include The Tuna Scene, I ain't buying.

    I know some heads out there know what I'm talkin about. Represent!

  • subtitles aren't how the creator of the original intended you to watch the movie

    And random Americans aren't who the voices were supposed to be done by.

    Subtitles let me hear and enjoy the original voice-acting. It's hard for me to imagine anyone but Megumi Hayashibara doing the voice for Nuku Nuku [imdb.com], for example. And I'm a Megumi fan -- if a movie has Megumi-chan doing a voice, that's a plus that makes me more interested in the movie. If she sings, so much the better.

    The best thing about DVDs is that you get the sub version and the dub version at the same time. When small kids come over, I wish I had a dub version of Nuku Nuku to show them, but when I watch I want the subtitles. (If and when I see a DVD of Nuku Nuku I'll buy it.)


  • Er. You're judging a MEDIUM, not a GENERE.

    Lain, Key, GitS, Akira, are all seen as classics in there genere in the anime medium, not unlike how Casablanca and Gone With the Wind are considered classic movies.

    Then you have Tenchi, which is Friends gone horribly wrong. Or, there's Kite and such, the Rambos of anime.

    You have BubbleGum Crisis and sequels, the A-Team of anime, if you will.

    Then you have things like Evangelion, Key and Lain, which have no parallels I'm aware of. Which I think is why they're so popular.

    Or perhaps I'm completely off base here. Either way, I'm going to go back to watching Tenchi in Tokyo.
  • Way back when, they released four episodes/tape, two Robotech episodes, two of the original show (Macross, Southern Cross or Mospeada), subtitled but original soundtrack and voices left intact. They need to this for the DVD version. Now.
  • It's from Dirty Pair Does Dishes, a parody dub of one of the original Dirty Pair TV episodes by Pinesalad Productions.

    "Here lies Carl Macek, killed after a showing of Robotech: The Movie. Man, he must have really f**ked up!"

  • BOTP was based on Gatchaman. No DVD's that I'm aware of, but there is an OAV 3-tape VHS box set that you can get from the likes of Amazon, etc. The OAV is quite nostalgic, but doesn't measure up to the original series.
  • There is an excellent novel out called "Blade Runner 2: The Edge Of Human." It was written by Philip K. Dick protege K.W. Jeter, and is almost as good as both "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?" and the "Blade Runner" screenplay.

    An animated feature based on BR2 would be great...I nominate Bruce Timm and Paul Dini to work on this...since Warner Bros. owns the Blade Runner "property" they would be a natural choice. Get the original actors who worked on the original BR movie to do voices...it just wouldn't be the same without them. This would be an animated feature intended solely for adults. I doubt that young children would be interested in a sequel to BR anyway.

    If only Timm and Dini had such freedom in "Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker"...I have seen the unedited version of this and it's really strong stuff. The cuts emasculate it completely.

    This would make sense because 20+ years on none of the actors who did BR look like they did, and the story takes place a year after the events in BR, so that wouldn't work, right? In animation you would be able to make everyone look like they did way back in 1980, when BR was made.

    This would rock.


  • Oh yeah...Nausicca and Laputa: Castle In The Sky was done by Miyazaki Hayao, the same guy who went on to do Totoro and Mononoke Hime.


  • I've always considered Macross to be a proto-anime - it does define the medium, both here and in Japan. As for Robotech, it would be the seminal American work, Starblazers and Speed Racer aside, and the one that introduced most of us to Anime in the early eighties (alongside Voltron and Mazinger Z).

    I guess my wish now is that kids today would associate something as grand in scope as Robotech or Starblazers with the anime medium, instead of the tripe they show today.

    (Dragonball may have it's points, but it's no Macross; and as for Pokemon, we'll just close the curtain of charity in silence, ne?)
  • by jdun ( 310373 ) on Monday February 26, 2001 @10:29PM (#399675)

    Well it depend on which version you go by. If I remember it right the Robotech version, protoculture is fuel for the Mecha. It is also food for the Invid. That is why the Invid invaded Earth, because protoculture is very limited. Protoculture seems to thrive on Earth.

    On the Macross version, protoculture is just that pro-culture. The aliens don't have a culture of their own. They have been fighting each other for so long that they don't have a culture, ie no sex, no songs, nothing just fighting each for god knows how long. That is why the aliens where so scare of Minmei singing, they almost had a heart attack.

    For more information you might want to check this site out. http://www.robotech.com/ [robotech.com]

    Out site has a small recommend anime list for those people that want to get into anime. http://icomic.com/afn/dvdrecommend.htm [icomic.com]

    You also might want to see our DVD review section http://icomic.com/afn/dvdreviews.htm [icomic.com]

  • He didn't just throw them together for the fun of it; if I recall correctly, he needed to have enough episodes to qualify for syndication. So the choice was either all of them, or none; I'm one of the few anime fans who appreciate what he did. Anyway, it's not like they changed much in the series, they could (and did) stand on their own. My favorite was the third one; I'd give just about anything for them to bring Mospeada to either DVD or tape or VCD or whatever (with English subtitles or dubs I mean).
  • I'd be happy to boycott them. Most of hte anime companies do not, but the only list of companies I see on the mpaa's website says members "include"

    Walt Disney Company;
    Sony Pictures Entertainment, Inc.;
    Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc.;
    Paramount Pictures Corporation;
    Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp.;
    Universal Studios, Inc.; and
    Warner Bros.

    Is there a complete list of members anywhere?
  • by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2001 @10:14AM (#399686) Homepage Journal
    I think most of the others not mentioned are probably sub-companies of those you listed. Miramax would be under Disney, etc.

    Also of note, the only anime DVD that is big in the US anime market that has anything to do with the MPAA is Princess Mononoke, from Miramax of Disney. Interestingly, it is probably *the best* anime DVD made in the US on technical grounds, being progressive and animorphic encoded with I think three languages in DD5.1 audio. The actual content is up to some debate but it's a good movie IMO.

    To get back on topic for this particular thread, I don't think the MPAA makes money on DVDs produced for non-MPAA members unless there is a distribution agreement. The DVD consortium makes some royalties per player though, not much, like a few dollars, and a lot of that goes to IP royalties, not the movie companies.
  • No, they tend to release a box set FIRST, then release individual DVDs. The UY DVDs from the first box set are going to start coming out individually very soon now.
  • I always have to laugh when people complain about ADV using overlays. The reason they switched to overlays in the first place was because the same people who whine and cry about them now, whined and cried about 'too many subtitles on the screen'.

    They just can't win for losing.
  • Perhaps my language was a little ambiguous, but I was struggling to find *any* anime to like. I wasn't categorizing (or if I was, I apologize) and then taking the mean as a reason to put down the medium.

    This is what I am struggling with:

    I often hear that anime is sometimes a medium for adults, sometimes children, sometimes both. A lot of people in the subculture tend to believe that a lot of anime is somehow superior, not just in animation and sound, but in character development and story and portrayal of reality.

    When I ask these people what shows or movies are good, I expect their general sentiment about the medium to pan out. So far what I've found, despite open mindedness and effort is that a lot of it is very much hype -- for example, character development and story in some anime that I am pointed to only live up to the hype when compared to childrens cartoons like he-man. They may talk about their feelings, make sexual advances, and develop as characters in a story -- but overall it's very juvenile stuff.

    I'm not insulting the medium, I'm just saying that it doesn't live up to the hype -- at least in my experience so far. My confusion then might be not with anime, but the people recommending this stuff to me. That they are 20 or so (like me) and they find joy in entertainment potentially made for = 14 year olds.

    That said, I'm not saying that I hate most of the anime I've encountered. I like some of the action movies. What triggered my original comment was people who believe Ghost in the Shell is so amazing, and who think that some shows are generally superior when they are pretty much parallel with television shows like "Saved by the Bell".

    Yes, I know it's just entertainment.
  • Oen of the first DVDs I bought ebcause I had heard so muchabout it.

    The animation is interesting, but for my tastes they coule have taken out half the gun battles to make room for some moee plot. The thing ends just as its starting to get interesting.

    GITS2 soudsn promising, maybe they could actually finish the story they started...
  • Meh. I keep hearing that, but I can't see it. There are quite a few anime that are really good in terms of the animation quality and sound. (though _everyone_ cheats on the animation. When you know what to look for it gets a little sad. Plot is a different story. A well written anime is more important to me than a good looking one, though that would be the #2 concern.

    But really, GitS was just okay. I think that the fact that it had CGI, and invisible cyborg chick warriors is what actually makes it popular. Not the quality of the plot, really. Personally, as far as near-future sf movies by Oshii Mamoru go, I'd put my vote solidly behind Patlabor 2. If you can believe it, it's even slower than GitS is; don't be put off by this however.

    Now probably the best sf anime ever is Wings of Honneamise. Don't bother with the R1 DVD though, reports are that they really fucked up the transfer.
  • by Judas96' ( 151194 ) on Monday February 26, 2001 @07:26PM (#399702)
    I have not seen Orguss, but I have watched Orguss 02, which I assume is the second Orguss series and thought it wasn't too too bad. You can actually view Orguss 02 on the web. It is dubbed, but I still found it fun to watch. You can find Orguss 02, as well as some other short series or single episodes that have all been released by Manga Entertainment in North America at this site [sputnik7.com] ( http://www.sputnik7.com/vod/anime/index.jsp ). Sure, all the anime that is there is dubbed, and you must be able to play Real media files or Microsoft .asf's, but the fact that it seems to be legit through a partnership between Sputnik7 Manga Entertainment or the like makes it pretty cool in my opinion. Free anime can't be an entirely bad idea :)
  • by Grendel Drago ( 41496 ) on Monday February 26, 2001 @07:31PM (#399703) Homepage
    The record for Most Gratuitous Tit Shots in a movie not ostensibly about tits.

    I mean really! Every ten seconds, guns are blazing, tits are flying, and someone's head comes off.

    Well, at least the tits part.

    -grendel drago
  • Don't believe me? Check out http://www.starblazers.com/ [starblazers.com]

    Fire the wave motion gun! For great justice!

  • by zdp ( 9896 ) on Monday February 26, 2001 @07:34PM (#399705)
    Starblazers Episodes 1-13 are already on DVD, the rest are being released quickly. http://www.starblazers.com [starblazers.com]
  • I agree.. It's the first anime I ever saw - years ago - and it's still the best I've seen. Truly breath taking. That's why I was so happy when I saw it on DVD some time ago in a store here in Helsinki. I immediately bought it and was crushed when I played it at home and noticed that the sound was lagging with about 1 second. I watched it and then took it back to the store. I figure it must have been a bad master so I didn't bother to even try another disc. :(

%DCL-MEM-BAD, bad memory VMS-F-PDGERS, pudding between the ears