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Slashback: Nods, Lamentations, Nudity 158

The European Union appears ready to shrug and say "OK" to the AOL / Time-Warner merger, while a reader brings us sad and totally unrelated news for game fans. A (plausible, but complete?) explanation of the upcoming PS/2 Crisis, if you view it as such. Also, didja ever wonder how big a trophy it takes to fit 15 syllables? Read on, read on -- it's Slashback.

"Heck, gentleman, what right have we got to approve anyhow?" WPL510 writes: "Just saw this article on Yahoo! about the AOL-TW merger. Apparently all the begging and pleading did something because the EU is about to approve their mega-merger. One concession they didn't mention was opening up AIM, of course. Great -- all we need is a bigger monopoly."

This too shall pass. Lord_Macblaster writes "The GameFan Network is no longer hosting sites. Many sites, including VoodooExtreme and my own site, Monolithic Illusions are nothing but dead links now. It's a real shame. Plenty of top notch sites were shut down. Not major news yet, but info is available here on PlanetCrap, and here on Lum The Mad."

This is the kind of thing that could get me into gaming. nomadic writes: " Electronic News reports that the PS2 shortage (mentioned before on Slashdot) may actually be DVD-related. Some analysts point to a shortage in DVD drive parts that has been affecting the notebook industry as well, but others suggest that it might be their lax CSS security.

Guess the MPAA leaning on them wouldn't be too implausible, but it's interesting if you consider that Sony's a member of that august body. Wonder how much flak they got from their brethren over the DVD copy protection workaround that Japanese gamers found earlier this year."

Another thing that could get me into gaming -- TheMyth writes: "It appears the Vivid Entertainment Group, is trying to release interactive adult movies for the Playstation 2. Read the article here that tells it all. -- I can't wait to see the field day that our government reps are gonna have with this one. Is this another "targeting adult content to kids case" or is it "targeting adult content to adults that play video games"? Censorship here we come ..."

Giving competition a good name again. An unnamed correspondent points to the results of the century's last ICFP programming contest. ICFP stands for a real mouthful: "International Conference on Functional Programming." "This year, functional languages take all the prizes; OCAML gets 1st and 2nd place, Haskell 3rd, Mercury 4th, and the judges' prize (for best image) goes to a SML/NJ team."

Battling giants has its rewards. GoldSkin writes: "The Digital Divas have reached an out-of-court settlement against Microsoft and their Digital Diva site. You may recall this article from way back in May." From their site: "In the simplest terms, Microsoft's Stacy Elliot will no longer be known as the 'Digital Diva' and Microsoft will no longer use in connection with content like that formerly available at that site. Also, in accordance with our settlement agreement, Microsoft has posted a notice at Please visit and see for yourself."

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Slashback: Nods

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    I find it rather disturbing that microsoft lost, or perhaps the correct term would be forfeited. Digital divas seems to be an group dedicated to the strengthening of intellectual property, at all cost. Somehow it doesn't seem that trademarks were meant to be used as a bludgeon stick against anyone that gets within reach, using the legal costs associated with fighting such a suit as the deterent instead of Justice(tm)(patent pending). Trademarks were created to prevent confusion between brand names such as Coca-Cola(tm) from imposters. I do not believe that Microsoft(tm) was attempting to fool web users that they were I for one was not confused. I had not even heard of digitaldivas until they "won" against "goliath".

    Looking at their site, their "grey day" that they are prompting has some lofty goals, but among them is hyperlinking (i.e. bandwidth robbery). It sickens me that being "morally right" is based on size, since everyone wants david to win against goliath. I am not sure about all the details of the case but sometimes even the Devil(tm) is not always wrong.

    Another Anonymous Coward
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Does anybody know if the Playstation 2 will feature VGA output, and if so, will I be able to watch DVDs at higher resolutions/refresh rates than NTSC ? Any links are appreciated.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Where's the nudity?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Juan, you burrito munching kike wetback. How the fuck have you been? It's been what, 7 or 8 years? What do you mean you don't remember me. It's good ole' Tom. You know, Tinkletoes Tom? Tommy The Trashbasket? You used to shit in my mouth and I'd happily eat it. Hows the wife? Yeah I know what you mean, man.. Kids? No, not here. The wife can't have 'em. The doc said I kicked her in the stomach one too many times. Yeah I know, pain in the ass. Hey I gotta get going, you know how it is.. The jew boss doens't let me have 61 minutes for lunch. 60 minutes on the dot. Gimmie a call some day and we can do drinks after work, OK? Yeah nice talking to you too. Bye.
  • How about this:

    5. SONY releases the PS2. It is awesome, and gamers buy lots of PS2 games. The Game Cube is ignored, because everybody tied up too much money in sony.
  • by Mihg ( 2381 )

    The computer that IBM used to sell was the PS/2.

    They seem to have a fascination with dividing there products in half...

    The Hotmail addres is my decoy account. I read it approximately once per year.
  • It's cool because a wealthy and powerful company wasn't able to strong arm a URL or trademark from away from the little guy.

    Even if Microsoft's digital diva was useful for some reason, it doesn't mean they have a right to the name. I can't go out and start another software company and call it Microsoft just because it produces "useful" software, can I?. I'm sure Microsoft can think up another cutesy name.

  • Yes, but that analogy dosen't fit the situation. The microsoft digital diva and the digital divas were/are online personalities, therefore there's a potential to confuse the two and hence the reason to put a stop to it. Just because they discuss subject matter doesn't mean there's enough differentiation to prevent possible confusion, and that's the key in these issues.
  • Oh, I know where you went, and why. Lurking you guys is one of the best parts of the circus here, you know.
  • Aw, c'mon Siggy! Don't go away mad....

    Somehow, I think you're taking this way too seriously. Slashdot is full of trolls and idiots, true, and it looks like it's gonna get worse before it gets better (if it does...), but hell, it's just a web site. Don't blow a gasket.

    Personally, I'll miss you. I find that you have the proper sarcastic/insightful "voice" for this forum, a nice counterpoint to the wails and babbles of the "usual suspects". Plus, you're often funny, no small thing in this madhouse.

    So go if you must. You'll be missed.

  • by Zugok ( 17194 )
    Actually, the Playstation 2 Machine does have a PS2 on one of the sides, so there you go.
  • Does that mean that I can't modify said future hardware purchase without being in violation of the DMCA even if it was for a "legit" purpose??
    It looks like the real hackers have to leave for the Land of the Free: i.e. out of the USofA.
    I don't see for example Europe installing laws similar to the corporate greed driven DMCA.
    And then Europe should claim the Great American Freedom of Trade as a reason to be able to export it to the US.....
  • and will provide the incentive for a few morons to publicly wish your death in graphic details.

    But that is good, right? You don't want these morons to publicly agree with you -- this could be embarassing...

  • What we need is representative moderation, not widespread moderation.

    Representative of whom? If the majority of people on Slashdot are tight-assed screeching Linux weenies, then "representative" mean representative of these weenies, right?

    I don't think it's a representation problem. If you don't like the majority or believe they are assholes, no democratic methods will help you.

  • What? Microsoft actually 'lost' a legal action? I don't count the anti-trade issues as 'lost' yet simply because it's not over and everything is going as MS wishes, anyway. This DigitalDiva issue definately a loss for MS, even if it is a minor one...

    What's next? Hell freezing over? Pigs flying?

  • Think about creative uses for Force-Feedback joysticks...

    dare i say.......
    a beowulf cluster of force-feedback "joysticks"
  • DOH!!!! sorry, i be preview impaired. Think about creative uses for Force-Feedback joysticks... dare i say....... a beowulf cluster of force-feedback "joysticks"
  • A friend of mine claimed his father had an adult game when he was a kid. I thought he said atari but it may have actually been Apple ][ now that I think about it. Heh he said it was two (highly pixelated) people in bed and you could lift up the covers and make them do stuff... What fun eh?
  • Don't any of you remember AstroTit? (Think Space Invaders, only the invaders were pendulous and squirted milk, and the defender was, well, erm, ah, a spurting penis - there, I've said it.)

    Ran on MS-DOS -- every bulletin board on the planet had a copy...
  • OK -- here's my thoughts on moderation (please hear this out)

    Traditional media's handling of feedback (such as a newspaper's "Letters" page) has been "moderated" by the editors. People reading the publication have provided some level of trust to the publisher. I'd assume most small weblogs run like this ... (I'd guess slashdot did initially, and I think Technocrat did until recently.) Let's call this "cathedral" style moderation.

    A key problem with this is accusations of bias on the part of the moderator. (E.g.: Rob Malda moderating down or deleting a post that says "Rob/Slashdot/Andover/VA sucks" because he has Evil Self-Interest at heart and silences the anonymous whistleblower's voice.)

    To escape from accusations of bias, we create a new moderation system -- randomly give moderation power out to the readers! This relieves the burden from the operator's shoulders of being called 'evil censors'. Call this "Bazaar style" moderation.

    But the tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. So -- we have a system, "bazaar-style", that /kinda/ works. However, many potentially good "AC" posts may be overlooked, and many posts later saying the same thing (or saying it less well) from higher karma ppl may "float up".

    Proposed solution: Reader-chosen trusted editors. Give the readers choice by leveraging the database-nature of the discussion sites. Keep a policy like slashdot -- no censorship, no matter what. But give me 3 (or 4?) choices when reading the comments on a story instead of 2. Currently I get to choose 1) read the comments that are at or above my chosen 'score'. 2) Read them all at -1. Add a 3rd choice -- read the comments scored up by editors I trust. (In slashdot's case, have some ppl on staff at VA/Andover/Slashdot, with good knowledge of journalism ethics, whose jobs it is to read and score EVERY comment.) Give me the choice to place my trust in those editors, so I can see the good AC-posted followups, without the fifty trolls.

    The bazaar-style moderation may save the operators from censorship accusations, but the random public are not necessarily the most qualified moderators.

    -jon "karma whore in training"
  • No, but you could create a company called microsoftt that makes little tiny pillows for mice and for purex commercials. . . . I have seen numerous examples of very simularly named - non related products. You would likely get into trouble with a microsoft like name if you were selling anything computer related. But anything non-computer related and you should be fine.
  • are you on crack?

    the site redirects to:

    try again with a browser that supports redirection . . .
  • I thought there was some mad keyboard connector shortage or summat.
  • it exists already, the dreamcast can play porn, but its not porn being sold for dc, its just some hacked boot loader that plays a mpeg.. but its still porn on a console, and with a little more hacking it could be interactive (some rumble pak hacking) :)
  • A voice of sanity.
  • I quoted the anti-porn zealot, and then I made fun of them, I don't see a problem. The reason why I can be biased and Fox News cannot is because I am not a journalist.

  • Heh... tempting... but I've been BOredAtWork for so many years in so many forums/lists that it'd be a bitch to get rid of, and would have to take LOTS of cash to convince me to do it...


  • The problem isn't only the people in general - it includes the operators of the site. When they set somebody's karma at -50 to make their default posting score -1 and then lie about it in the FAQ saying that this never happens and then lie about it in email saying that it's a "bug being worked out" I no longer trust the site operators. Especially when some of the people this "bitchslapping" was done to posted on-topic (albeit satirical) comments (anyone still remember "MEEPT!!!"?).
  • I'll sell you my #597 cheap =P
  • Bye, bye, Bojay.

    I read the rant on your user page, and I'm sorry you feel this way; I just have one question for you, so feel free to reply by e-mail if necessary.

    How did you manage to take this site seriously for so long?

    I started trolling with a fake account somewhere around UID# 140,000; all the posts from that account wouldn't easily pass the lameness filter now, but some of them were really quite funny.

    OOG THE CAVEMAN is a more successful example of a smart caveman that would be censored by modern-day slashdot, but I'm certainly not taking credit for that one; he's a genius! :)

    More recently, I created another troll account that was quite successful, but also rather unfairly moderated down.

    Somewhere in between, since Rev told me how well I was doing in 'Fantasy Karma Whore', (I wasn't really keeping track until then, but I was so proud...) I've tried my hand at Karma Whoring lately, just for the love of the game. There's nothing wrong with posting something that's moderately insightful or informative, but you're right, with slashdot it has much more to do with being in the right place at the right time, and getting your opinions seen and making them seem catchy; this is all just social engineering.

    However, I've been here since before we had moderation, and I loved the quality of both the news and the discussion; that has done nothing but degrade since I got here, and I don't see it getting better in the foreseeable future. The admins have refused to tackle both the simple problems (eliminating duplicate links, checking their spelling, finding and fixing dead links -- this could *easily* be automated) and the hard ones; (the incredibly broken moderation system, the incredibly broken karma system, and don't even get me started about metamod) slashdot needs to admit it has a problem and ask for help.

    So although it's still fun to post here, and every once in a while I'll see a glimmer of intelligent discussion, other sites like kuro5hin and half-empty will definitely be looking up in the future unless slashdot's admins wake up and see what their site has become. And with people like Signal 11 posting to the other sites, well, maybe we'll have some more intelligent conversations and honest opinions for a while, since these are often not welcome here at slashdot anymore.

    Mob rule != Intelligent conversation.
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [].
  • What will you give me for my nick?
  • Ever play a PSX fighting game called "Dead Or Alive"? It must be seen to be believed. *grin* The sequel, creatively called "Dead Or Alive 2" is available on Dreamcast, and DOA2: Hardcore Edition (No, I am not making these up) will be on the PS2. I think you'll be rather pleased by the... umm... impressive polygons and attention to detail.

    Thank god for the Japanese video game industry. :)
  • Aw, nuts!!!Having read Signal 11's rant, I guess we're going to miss some intelligent commentary, but the trade-off is that we won't have to endure any more of his obsessing about moderation.If he really cared about quality of content, couldn't he just ignore trolls and flames? Getting all hung up over moderation seems grossly irrelevant to me. I hope he reconsiders and comes back (even if under another name), though.
  • The soap opera drama that is Slashdot is what keeps people here. And the beauty of Slashdot is that, by setting your threshold to 2, you can ignore the soap opera and get on to the thoughtful stuff.
  • You'd think these people never saw the panty shots in all these Virtua Fighter-like games. If I were into Japanese schoolgirls, be still my beating heart!
  • Slashdot isn't dying, but there comes a time when people move on.

    There's more to it than that. I used to believe it was possible to have rational conversations on slashdot, and learn something by talking to people with other experiences and ideas, and have them learn by talking to me; that together we would, by interacting, come out ahead.

    I no longer believe that's possible; the culture of slashdot has evolved in different directions than that. I think there's a growing belief that that is true; and what scares me is that the people who flee slashdot because of that may overwhelm the refuges and cause the same sort of problems there that they have here. I hope i'm simply paranoid.

  • sheer arrogance of these people [Linux-weenies (who tend to cluster around the ages of ~14-20) ] sickens me.

    Why? That is as it should be. People who are not arrogant about their ideas in late teens are generally stupid, boring, square, and future corporate fodder. When you are 18 you *should* be arrogant, you should believe your idea will change the world. This does not necessarily mean this idea should get implemented, of course.

    Is Linux dying? Yes. Linux as we knew it in 1993-1995 is dead.

    Read some Hindu cosmology. You cannot have new things without old things dying. Building something necessarily involves destruction. Yes, Linux of the mid-90s is dead, but this is good -- otherwise we would be looking at an ossified monster. The world changes and evolves -- nobody can stop that. Don't pine for gooden olden days -- the future is always more interesting.

    It's time to grow up, people.

    Growing up happens naturally. Don't try to turn full of energy and arrogance youngsters into old men before their time. They'll become old men eventually.

    This just gives the corporate suits more ammo to not play by the counterculture rules.

    Heh. Corporate suits are *never* going to play by counterculture rules. It's not a question of more ammo or less ammo. Counterculture should not try to become accepted into mainstream -- it only happens when the counterculture dies. And it should not be in a hurry to die.

  • It could be optional... like "willing to moderate"
  • Somehow, I doubt that the PS2 controllers will be as easy to clean as a keyboard is :P

    Colin Winters
  • I've been around a while myself, but not as long. What I miss is the relevance of the main stories when I started reasding. It used to baffle me- I thought I was a unique bird, but I learned that someone had me pegged, since I found nearly every story posted to /. then interesting and relevant to me.

    Unfortunately, that era has past. I don't think I've changed, but whatever fleeting phenomena lead to such a high story "hit rate" for me personally has slipped away, at about the same rate that the intelligence of the dialogue has sunken.

    Although the site's appeal was an enigma to me at the beginning, I've got my suspicions about the decline, and I blame it on Jon Katz. Not for the usual reasons- his stuff doesn't annoy me like it does others. What happened with the "hellmouth" was that /. began to become associated with an identity, a lifestyle, an outlook. I think this has filtered into the culture of the editors, the story selectors. The site has evolved from simply those things which fascinated a group of run-of-the-mill geeks with the creativity to put it up on a web page to the "voice of the geek community".

    What is posted now may still be those things that fascinate Rob & co, but they have been changed by the position they hold: wealthy creators of a financially valuable media property with a voice that reaches 100's of 1000's of people. Their experience has gone far beyond that of the average geek, and it's reflected in their stories.

    I miss the old /. I know it's not coming back (just like Usenet), and I guess I'll have to find my a substitute somewhere else. Sigh. Why must all good things come to an end?

  • The cardinal problem with term limits is that they are likely to increase the corporate influence, especially in a world where campaign spending is reformed.

    Think about it, a lage part of the problem with the current system is that advisors and elected officials will serve in government, retire to the public sector on staff at some huge company and then eventually return to office. Even if they never returned to office the problem would exist. Vote this way for such and such legislation and x years down the road serve in a cushy position on the board of directors for some large wealthy corporation.

    Personally, I think anyone that wants to serve as an elected public official ought to disqualified. And add a 'none of the above' option along with legislation that if 'none of the above' wins the election, an individual is selected at random from the pool of registered voters to serve.

    have a day,


    have a day,


  • Sony Releases the PS2, people rush to the stores to drop dead at the outlandish price tag. Nintendo cleans up by selling their cube at a reasonable price.

    (I checked at Sony store yesterday. PS2 is $575CDN. That's crazy.)
  • Not necessarily, because one could set it up as an intelligent agent.

    Everyone rates posts, and the moderation you see is determined by the ratings given to people who rated posts similar to yours.
  • I'm not sure I grep your use of the word 'lurk', but hey... If I'm providing you with a modicum of entertainment as part of this freakshow, then all the better.
  • Tee hee. The original Enoch Root never went away; I simply moved on to the troll sids, became an asshole, and stopped revising my spelling. I guess metaphorically, I did go away.

    If you want an explanation, check my recent comments.

  • I think you have some very valid points. What we need is representative moderation, not widespread moderation. I couldn't put it better myself: tyranny by the majority is still tyranny. Well put, sir.

    Yeah yeah, that was a 'me too' post.

  • I have heard from two seperate electronics stores that Sony is short on DVD parts for the PSX2. The consensus seems to be that the lens is most scarce. Sony's production levels of component DVD players is down to effectively zero, leading a degree of credibility to this theory, since supposedly the scarce parts are all being put into PSX2s, and none into stand alone DVD players.
  • Trolls know this well, and so do karma whores, to an extent: it's a simple matter of politics. Democracy was cracked by power-hungry lobbyists pretty much the same way Slashdot was cracked by the trolls. If you want enlightened comments and worthwhile discussions, then placing the debate in the hands of the silent majority is just going to create a mess.

    Take Big Brother as an example: are you surprised the pretty face with the missing leg won? This shows you how pathetic it was to let the whole Internet vote. If you compare with Survivor, where the people involved in the action did the voting, there's a modicum of sense that arises. The winner was not the prettiest or the most popular, but the one who worked the hardest and made the most sense.

    Bloody hell, you just described what Heinlein described as a problem in Starship Troopers. No, I'm not advocating the transmigration of our society to that outlined in his novel, but I think several reforms are in order (this will be Americentric, as I have no fucking clue as how the other systems work).

    First, eliminate the ability of non-individuals to contribute monetarily to campaigns. When corporations and lobbyist groups contribute, we then essentially have built an opportunity for a particular, wealthy, segment of the population to contribute twice for the same fucking person.

    Second, impose term limits on the legislative branch. Then, we may see lusers there voting their conscience rather than voting their reelection funding.

    Finally, make a judicial review of laws not passed by a certain (i.e. two-thirds) majority of the Congress, or have been "signed" into law via the "do-nothing" method of the President mandatory. That way, in theory, anything "questionable" should get a review for the constitutionality. Assuming again, of course, that the Judges are clued and that they're voting their conscience.

    Of course, I just pulled this out of my ass in much less time than it took Heinlein to write his dissertation, or for the current system to develop, or even some reformists to think up of strategies, so YMMV greatly.

  • by Nexx ( 75873 )

    First, some definitions:

    <rant> <-- indicates a beginning of my rants.

    </rant> <-- similarly, indicates the end of my rants.

    YMMV == "Your Mileage May Vary"

    Having gotten through that:

    I agree wholeheartedly with what you've just written, actually. Perhaps the lobbying groups need to be accredited? Give them a very firm spending limit on what they can contribute to the politicians' campaigns, and have them be audited every year, that kinda stuff (yes, auditing will become expensive--not a perfect solution, I know).

    Having said that, your view on apathy and corruption, I think, is right-on. Perhaps we need to institute something similar to what the Russian election process uses, and require that the politicians being elected be elected by the majority of their consitituents, not the majority of votes. This may/may not cut down on some of the apathy, and with the voting turnouts being so low, it does make for an interesting reform.

    Also, I know that this may be a Bad Idea, but what about making not voting a crime or something akin to a traffic violation? Yeah, it'll put some stresses on our beleagured court systems, so this needs to be throughly investigated, and possibly thrown out as a solution.

    Lockean philosophy on government states that if the government is unjust, then it is the peoples' duty to overthrow the government. Well, currently, it is unjust, and our Constitution has placed methods for changing the government (i.e. voting!), so quit-cher-whining, and get out there, vote if you can, and use that Right to Assembly!

  • ...of the upcoming PS/2 Crisis...

    I am very concerned about the upcoming PS/2 crisis. What if the next computer I buy only has USB ports? That means I can't use my favorite mouse! I'll have to buy an adapter or soemthing! Nooo!
  • Although I am probably among the younger in the Slashdot crowd (pushing 21), I can find plenty of adult Atari games. Classics such as (I'm not making this up) Beat 'Em and Eat 'Em and Get the Girl were readily available for Atari. Hell, iif you download Stella, an Atari 2600 Emulator, you can even play these games if you take the time to find them. Vivid's not making any headway. And they can cite these older Atari games as prior act.

  • It is to SONY's advantage for the PSX2 to be delayed, assuming it really is as good as they say it is. Let's see some test cases:
    1. SONY releases the PSX2 soon. It sucks. Nintendo releases their cube and it kicks booty. Game over.
    2. SONY releases the PSX2 later. It sucks, but there's the new-fangled-ness of it (assuming it's out after Nintendo's) that causes it to garner significant sales.
    3. SONY releases the PSX2 soon. It is awesome. Nintendo releases their cube, and the fact that it's the "latest and greatest" (whether or not it really is) causes it to sell, perhaps close to the PSX2's sales.
    4. SONY delays the PSX2, and when it finally gets here, it r0x0rs! People will forget about Nintendo's cube and gobble up the PSX2.
    So it is obviously to Sony's advantage to delay the PSX2, at least until after Nintendo's release. This way they'll be the latest and the greatest and the thing to have.

    And about the DVD drive thing, I doubt it...I just purchased a DVD drive for my brand new desktop system, and my father got one in his laptop about a month ago.

  • To tell you the truth, the so-called 'geek' community, as it is showcased on Slashdot, comes across as one of the most close-minded, hypocritical bunch whose sole interest is looking out for their own narrow-minded view of their dysfunctional world. I don't blame you for wanting out of that.

    I don't think you can call this crowd 'geeks' anymore. And yes, they are the most opinionated, narrow minded whiny children anywhere.

    Slashdot has become a popularity contest. I read it, but I'm tired of not being able to check it every 1/2 hour, because I work. And if I don't check it that often, and I might have some insight that I think would be of use, if it doesn't make it in the first 150 - 200 posts, it won't get read. So why bother?

    Sad to see Sig go, but I can relate. I don't always agree, but I've never mod'd on that basis. Hope to see you on # or K5 soon.

  • It seems to me that's a solution looking for a problem. Don't like moderation? Read at -1. It's hardly a tyranny that the posts you most want to read aren't always at the top of the list. The typical (non-MS v. DOJ) story at Slashdot never has so many posts that it would be impractical to read them all if you're worried about missing a gem that wasn't moderated upward because it was posted too late or went against conventional wisdom (personally, I don't see the latter--you can generally find both sides of even contentious issues modded up). This is especially true since most of the lower ranked posts seem to be a single sentence.

    If you stop worrying about the popularity contest of moderation, there are likely better ways to find interesting comments than an elaborate system of granting trust to editors. For instance, how about a button next to each post to grant a +/- 1 to other posts by the same author in your view. Using editors as a proxy for your tastes seems oddly indirect for something that you can filter yourself.

  • What do you mean by this? I'm fascinated. Isn't our generation more intelligent (or, at least, better educated) than any generation before us? What do you count as a "significant advance" and why do you say we can't make them any more?

    It's a .88 magnum -- it goes through schools.
  • Sourcing 5 million DVD drive mechanisms is slightly different from buying a DVD drive down the shops.

    I can't wait for the PS2 to come out. That thing will be hacked so fast. DVD's anti-consumer "features" are going to be a thing of the past. In Japan, PS2 has already outsold dedicated DVD players by 2:1, while PS2 game sales are atrocious. They're all buying it as a DVD player. Everyone here and in Europe will get one, because within 6 months - mark my words - you'll be able to download a new flash ROM into the thing that eliminates all the protection from DVDs and games. No-one will buy standalone DVD players once PS2 hits $199 and can be chipped and ROM-patched. Don't even think of the PS2 as a games machine - it's a DVD player that also happens to run games.

    It's a .88 magnum -- it goes through schools.

  • Let's try it this way: How do you know if you're being useful to the community? How do you know if you've posted a meaningful comment? Either by replies, or by moderation. Watching a post go to +5 is fun, and seeing the karma boost is nice too. The karma gives you a realitivly good idea as to how you've been doing in the slashdot community, as do the various replies and discussions.

    But when you can only watch karma go down, that gives the impression that you are no longer actually doing anything useful. (Plus it's possible to actually lose karma on a score 4 post!) It takes away the measure of how well you've been contributing.

    (To lose karma on a score 4 post, get modded up to 5, then modded down. The +3/4 (depending on the starting score) will be dropped, but that last -1 will strike you!)

    Keep in mind that without the karma cap, I tried to actually be meaningful because I could get feedback via moderation. Now the only feedback I get is from watching each post and reading and responding to replies. This is more work, and it means that in order to guage how well I'm doing on Slashdot, I have to go through my user history list and check on all my comments: not fun.

    Besides, all karma really does is turn Slashdot [] into a game. In some Geeks in Space [] episode, CmdrTaco [] (I think) was talking about the (then) new experience point/level system in Everything2 [], and how it turned it basically into a game. Same thing with karma. Cap the max score, and then it becomes pointless to try and be useful. The bottom line is the karma cap has at best pissed a lot of the karma whores off. It has at worst turned some people [] into trolls [].

    So yeah, whenever I have something useful to say, I'll say it, but I won't try and be as nice. If you look through my recent comments, I'm starting to become more of a troll simply due to boredom. (And, probably, due to the fact I really don't have anything to say.)

    I really don't think the karma gap has done anything useful. What Rob should really do is consider how to make moderating actually worth while for a moderator. The novelty wares off quickly. Honestly, it really isn't worth the hour it would take me to be a Good Moderator. So maybe that's why moderators seem to suck - they really don't have the time to go over every little thing and figure out how best to moderate. That's how things like the DAEHTIHS protocol get moderated up as "insightful" until someone suggests reading DAEHTIHS backwards.

  • The problem is, it also took the fun out of my attempting to post anything meaningful.

    Think about it this way: What insentive do I have to post meaningful posts? Both in the responses I get, but also in the moderation. If what I say is good, I'll get moderated up. If it's meaningless, down. (Well, not really. Signal 11 did a good job proving that moderation didn't work.)

    However, now, I'm at 50 karma. Every once and a while, it'll go down, but sooner or later, I'll hit the cap anymore. Theres no incentive for me to attempt to post anything meaningful anymore. I'm stuck at 50. In fact, I've actually tried to troll a few times just to take a karma hit so that I could watch it go up again! It's just not worth it to attempt to be meaningful, because there's really no reward.

    On this topic, there's also no reward for moderating. In fact, there's a penalty! So moderators, thanks to M2, have to remain "goodthinkful," and can't moderate correctly. M2 was probably one of the biggest assets to Siggy's karma whoring.

    Maybe Kuro5hin [] can come up with a working moderation system, complete with karma. The system on Slashdot is broken. The karma barrier made it worse.

  • You mean like this post []? Which some AC has already trolled him for []? C'mon, that was the first response!
  • So, this is a "the website of idiots", the people who reply to you are either "stupid" or "full of preconceptions", but yet you view Slashdot as some sort of vital experiment in democratic communication. On top of that you hold Signal 11, an admitted manipulator, up as "voice of reason". Ok...

    Sounds more like you are arguing for a system of rule by the elite and the articulate over any form of participative form of governance, which is exactly what karma whoring, trolling, meta-trolling, and pompous posturing is in this little game of "world domination", and none of which will matter when the AOL Barbarians really come throught the gate here. (If they haven't already. It's hard to manipulate a bunch of ACs calling each other niggers.)

    That would be OK if you were halfway elite and articulate yourself. Instead, your posting history seems to be a series of high noise/low signal outbursts of smugness and arrogance at best, and blubbering pseudotrolling at the worst ("X Sucks - It needs to be in the Kernel" indeed, at least the "philosophically flawed 19th century spirit of scientific determinism" has a nice ring to it). You don't seem to be accomplishing anything except letting your movtivation show through your posts (it feels good when an AC tells you to fuck off, doesn't it?), so enjoy your slashdot power wank, and don't let it really go to your head like Signal 11 did.

    Anyway, I'm biting at your post only because I've reading Signal 11's posts for three years now, and despite all the redigested shit he's posted and his self-righteous crucified-for-karma attitude (which he is dead serious about BTW), I generally think he's an intelligent guy who for a while mastered the game theory of this place, but fell flat on his ass when the rules changed. The experiment abandoned him, he didn't abandon the experiment. If you want to troll by play Sig11's trollee, that's fine, the suit of a self-righteous 'slashbot' fits you well. Only problem, I'm not so sure if it fits slashdot well anymore. Good luck in the karma games.
  • Y'know, I started reading /. because I was loosing my internal sense of geek. Sure, I can cut DNA up and put it back together, or measure picoamps of current from a neuron in a petri dish, but my data analysis software is all Mac based. I was in danger of weenie-dom.

    I found I was using our Linux box at home the way I play guitar: I've memorized a bunch of chords and can transpose a bit, but I don't know music theory. Similarly I can get around the computer and do what I want, but should in no way be trusted with root.

    So what the hell does that have to do with Signal 11? /. doesn't teach me how to use Linux effectively, but it does help teach me what I don't know and where to learn it. It does what I wanted a forum like this to do. I liked the lively minds and learned quickly how to filter the noise. (It takes more work here than flipping a 10 kHz setting on my electrophysiology rig, because not all posts of interest to me are >=2.) Eventually it dawned on me that there were people who seemed to live in a Slashdot universe. There were people whose self-worth seemed related to their karma points. Clearly, there were people who needed a life.

    This doesn't bother me. As a phenomenon it interests me because I'm an armchair internet anthropologist. The admissions of Signal 11, Enoch Root, et al that they purposefully Karma whore with inflammatory posts reminds me (in substance, though not style) of sociological experiments I've carried out on other lists. My armchair studies show me that /. seems to have followed the usual pattern laid out in a "life cycle of mailing lists" I saw long ago. Most of you have seen it, the description of the cycle from not enough posters, to good informative posts, to lots of noise and the old timers complaining that we've had discussion X before, to (sometimes) the eventual dissolution of the list. What do you know? You can change the interface style, but the human pattern stays the same.

    I have a karma of 1 (woo-hoo!). I have posted fewer than a dozen times. I have a life. I will continue to check in with /. on a regular basis. I laugh, I cry, I learn a lot about myself.

  • I think a -1 bonus to posts would be a great thing. A lot of times I'll reply to someone in an offtopic thread, and know that noone other than who I'm replying to will wish to see it, or that what I'm posting may be relevent, yet not worthy of archiving. I'm not talking about a -1 o the karma however, just an option, like my +1 bonus, to be seen at a lower threshold only.

    Fist Prost

    "We're talking about a planet of helpdesks."
  • At least the digitaldiva! story. Here is another case just like etoy vs. etoys, where two parties are doing an entirely different thing, and one of them can't stand it and sues over trademark.

    Of course it was an evil frivolous lawsuit back when a "performance art" group was being threatened but if it's someone in the employ [] of the evil empire [] I guess it's a different story, regardless of how useful []upset [] that Stacy doesn't present herself as a know-it all and that's what this really is all about.

    Fist Prost

    "We're talking about a planet of helpdesks."
  • If you forever post messages saying you are leaving slashdot, does that count as leaving slashdot?

    The best method is just to leave. Permanently. Forget your password.

  • If we - the brightest of our generation

    But members of a comparably stupid generation. No matter how bright we are, our culture has reached the point (ala Foundation's Empire) where we can't make any significant advances anymore.

  • To tell you the truth, the so-called 'geek' community, as it is showcased on Slashdot, comes across as one of the most close-minded, hypocritical bunch whose sole interest is looking out for their own narrow-minded view of their dysfunctional world. I don't blame you for wanting out of that.

    Y'know, it didn't use to be like that. Before Linux became the Breakfast of Trolls, there were actually a lot of people who were in it because they were interested in technology in general, not because they're zealots. I'm interested in technology in general. I have six operating systems on my primary computer, and I'm not zealous about any one. Most of the time, I'm in Be. Other times, I'm in Linux. I even use NT and like it.

    To be honest, this whole "Open Source" movement has degraded in the exact same way that Slashdot has. That might be why I'm in Be mostly these days. It's dying. Have you watched what's been going on recently as compared to the past couple of years before that? Mozilla has stagnated. Projects that were once hotbeds of development have slowed to an arctic freeze (enlightenment, anyone? efm is nice, but what happened to the earlier rapid development? And why has sawfish development died, or GNOME?)

    Where am I? I forgot where this was going to go. Anyway, that's my take on it.

  • Watch carefully - the Bazaar model of Open Source style software is about to fail.
  • Just look at most of the PlayStation games. There's an alarming number of them which feature scantily clad, toothpick-thin women with guns and nonesuch. There are even total Japanese 2D games which have gameplay similar to this. Personally, I think that Sony has one foot in the porn business already. Hell, they're already at least 50% responsible for building the video devices used to capture it on tape, so they're more than accountable for its promotion: they're responsible for its fruition. []
  • Isn't it fun typing in those HTML tags now? It livens up otherwise dull text.
  • by sheldon ( 2322 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @04:38PM (#737696)
    I've even upgraded it with a 2 gig drive, keyboard, mouse and 10baseT ethernet. Runs Debian Linux just swell.

    If you buy today, I'll throw in a second PS/2!

    That's right! Two PS/2's for the price of one!

    I'm only asking $300, which is more than fair seeing as how you'll be getting my PS/2 a month before Sony releases their PS/2.
  • by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:54PM (#737697)
    I won't be troubling you anymore, I'm leaving slashdot.


  • by Joe Groff ( 11149 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @04:42PM (#737698) Homepage
    The future of Slashdot seems intricately bound up to the future of politics. If we can solve these mass-community problems in the comforting realm of Slashdot, we can eventually do it in politics, and make a fair system of government someday. If we - the brightest of our generation - can't do this, then what hope does government by the people have?

    Yes, imagine how great it would be to be able to moderate George Bush and Pat Buchanan down as (-1, Flamebait).

    - Joe

  • by IntlHarvester ( 11985 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @11:00PM (#737699) Journal
    At one time there was there was once a righteous sense of "we're changing the world" here and "we DO know what the fuck we are talking about". Slashdot was interesting because of this. But like all good things that's been so sufficiently buried by capitalism and schmaltz and a tide of intentional and unintentional garbage, it inevitably become a parody of itself. Half the time I don't know who's trolling, who's whoring, and who's just an moron. Karma, hidden sids, and that tempting "Post Anonymously" box are just all part of the bacchanalia in the decline of the slashdot/linux-jihad empire. Entertaining. but perhaps the party is winding down.

    Anyway, you nailed it full on. Wish I could have said it as well as you.

    (And Siggy, sorry to see you go. Effugus and the original Enoch Root passed with out a peep, somehow I don't think it will be same with you. At least let us know your maximum karma if you really are gone. Or would that destroy the legend?)
  • by Soko ( 17987 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @07:42PM (#737700) Homepage
    Good reply. Take the +1 Bonus out of Petty Karma and the rest of the day off - you've earned it. ;)
  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <> on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:54PM (#737701) Homepage Journal
    Why is it that no major news carrier can make a report about pornography without villifying the adult product industry with words like "smut merchants"? Last time I checked the stereotype of a journalist was a person who pushes the boundaries of social bias and values free speech above all.

    "The level of interactivity enhances fantasy, so you can customize it to fit your fantasy," he said. "It's incredibly destructive.... What you have is an effort by the industry to turn sexual exploitation into a game."

    That cracked me up. Can you imagine an anti-porn advocate standing in the middle of a shopping center shouting stuff like this with a megaphone? (probably whilst waving a bible with the other hand). These people need to grow up and understand that people like porn and their childhood snickering only leads to discredit them.

  • by gargle ( 97883 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @11:16PM (#737702) Homepage
    You're right, Slashdot isn't dying. Rather, it's the people who have changed and moved on, and then looked back and found that Slashdot wasn't the same for them anymore. Let me explain:

    I started reading Slashdot several years back, when I was still in college. I posted fairly regularly, tried to get moderated up. The issues on Slashdot seemed vivid and important.

    In the words of Kafka:

    "I was still quite a puppy, everything pleased me, everything was my concern. I believed that great things were going on around me of which I was the leader and to which I must lend my voice, things which must be wretchedly thrown aside if I did not run for them and wag my tail for them."

    I left college, moved on in life. Life is hard and fraught with difficulties. Suddenly, whether Windows was better than Linux, or whether KDE was better than Gnome didn't seem that important after all. The discussions on Slashdot? Silly and inane.

    Signal 11 and other long time regular Slashdot posters are probably experiencing the same jadedness. Slashdot isn't dying, but there comes a time when people move on.
  • by mrfiddlehead ( 129279 ) <> on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:15PM (#737703) Homepage
    But for a slash shouldn't IBM's legal department be investigating this name? Every time I see PS2 mentionned on /. it takes me a few seconds to parse the abbreviation into a modern context.

  • by NaughtyEddie ( 140998 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2000 @09:27AM (#737704)
    You know, this is what makes Slashdot such an unpleasant place for intelligent people to discuss ideas. First, there's the stupid people who don't get what you say and just tell you you're talking rubbish (usually anonymously). Then, there's the intelligent people who are so full of preconceptions they don't even read what you say. You are in the latter class.

    If you took the time to read and understand my post you'll find no allusions to "slashdotting politics" - instead, I'm talking about the fact that the same problems are inherent in any group debating system, whether that system be the government or Slashdot.

    If we're going to move to a more parcipitative form of governance, we're going to need to solve group debating issues on a much larger scale than just the few hundred people who debate laws today. My point is simply that if we can't solve these problems in an imaginary scenario such as Slashdot, how can we solve them in a real scenario like the government.

    If holding that view makes me part of the "wide-eyed groupthink" majority then so be it, but believe me, this is not because I am following the herd. These are my own opinions. I didn't just read them out of a Wired issue.

    If you think Signal 11's experiments give you insight into the herd mentality then please share these insights, so we may all be enriched by them. It might help solve the very real problems that we face as a civilisation. That's why I responded to Signal 11's message. It seems a shame that someone with such insight would abandon such an experiment.

    Unfortunately, it seems, you're more interested in acting smug and arrogant than in actually solving anything. In fact, your attitude is worse than that - you seem to want to make the problem itself a taboo subject. Well, that's a somewhat Victorian attitude and I think that even the Slashdot herd, who you despise, are at least embodying the spirit of the current age, rather than the 19th century spirit of scientific determinism, which every college student knows is philosophically flawed and just plain inaccurate.

    Incidentally, unless you know Signal 11 personally, why are you calling him Siggy? Is his first name even Signal? And why are you using ELTAs when you don't know the meaning of the word "troll"? Now, I don't want to accuse you of acting up to the herd, but when you're pretending to be on first name terms with someone "famous" and using abbreviations without knowing their meaning, it might look to an outsider as if you're playing herd power games, trying to boost your own herd acceptance by using power symbols.

    But, hey, you're the sociologist, so I'm sure you're well aware of what game you're playing here.

    It's a .88 magnum -- it goes through schools.

  • by Spiff28 ( 147865 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:43PM (#737705)

    (Personally I think this needs far more coverage than just a slashback, guys)

    Apache has started that Voodoo Extreme [] (the link probably won't work :P) would return in full force in the coming days. They had already started to move before the plug was pulled. The VE staff are taking a few days vacation before they go back with their new host, who though unmentioned is receiving high praises.

    By all accounts it sounds like GameFan was collapsing rapidly and it's amazing they lasted as long as they did. Something shady was going on with advertising revenue. Many people have stated that since moving to new hosts they've gotten almost 50% more click-through/hit revenue than what Gamefan was showing them.

    What concerns me is that this is not going to be the last network to fall by any means. UGO and IGN BOTH sound like they're in for a very tough year, and to me this is going really raise questions about the profitability of internet-only content. Wired, CNN, WSJ, NYT, and hell even /., are all able to stay very much alive because of real world counterparts in other media (or just plain ol' big bucks hoping to diversify). Do the online portions, despite the large readership, actually provide profit at all? Would you pay for Blue's []? sCary's []?

    Someone is going to have to come up with a better answer for online-only content distribution, and this year is going to prove it.

    - Spiff

  • I don't see how any reasonable person could possibly be upset about this.

    Ah, but you said it yourself, "reasonable person". These people are fighting a crusade against pornography in spite of there not being any hard (ha ha) evidence whatsoever that it actually causes any harm. In fact, way back in 1969 the Nixon Administration (okay, not the most august name to be throwing around) championed a study which ended up decided that pornography has no effect whatsoever on increasing or decreasing the likelihood of sex crime. (I did a report on this back in seventh grade or so.)

    Consider the following quote from the article on Fox News:

    "The level of interactivity enhances fantasy, so you can customize it to fit your fantasy," he said. "It's incredibly destructive.... What you have is an effort by the industry to turn sexual exploitation into a game."

    This is paranoia, plain and simple; Besides which, there are already interactive pornographic video games. For example, Virtual Valerie (One through... Three?) and the even older applications for the Mac Plus and such which featured the same sorts of things; You penetrate a virtual "woman" with virtual "sex toys" and make her make noises. Big deal. This is supposed to be realistic?

    These games should not be sold to children. As the article reads, "Non-PlayStation porn DVDs already offer multiple camera angles, story lines and zoom buttons." My DVD player actually has a nice zoom feature (up to 4x, at which point they look like the average graphics in the computer porn games - impossibly pixellated. It's like watching skinimax through the haze of analog protection... I see a cock! I definitely see a cock!) You can pan the zoom area around, and everything.

    I have nearly every console videogame system with interchangable games. I need to get a Vectrex, atari's 5200 and 7800 (or was that 5800 and 7200? I always forget) and a Dreamcast, and then a PS2 when it comes out, and then about the only thing I won't have is an Odyssey I. I'm not really collecting the handhelds, though I do have a virtual boy and a couple game boy systems. I also have a few porn titles, including one DVD which I intend to play on my upcoming Playstation 2, just to sneer at Sony.

    I'm also 23 years old. I'm sure telling you this violates some sort of intelligence standard, just one more piece of data to drop into the bucket - But I digress. I like videogames, and I like porn. Why shouldn't I be able to buy porn videogames? Mind you, I'm not likely to until they make some that don't suck ass - Er, wait, that didn't come out right.

    And finally; These companies should sell a Dragon's Lair/Space Ace/etc-style game on DVD first. It's arguably a videogame, you could easily have the actors' wabbly bits flash (ala Space Ace, except that didn't show any genitalia) when you're supposed to hit a button, and it would be playable on any DVD player with a good menu speed -- Like my Apex AD600A, or the Playstation 2. That paves the way for above-board porn games. The only trick now is whether or not Sony will sell them a development system and license. Personally, I want to see how accurately an Emotion Engine, coupled with Sony's spiffy GPU, can handle the physics of a cumshot.

  • by vsync64 ( 155958 ) <> on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:07PM (#737707) Homepage
    You heard me... still redirects to someplace on Microsoft's site, and I would say the URL is definitely a source of possible confusion. Who cares if Microsoft's person keeps calling themselves a "diva" or not (okay, we all care, but still)? As long as MICROS~1 has the domain, they will still be getting tons of hits from it.

  • by MrBogus ( 173033 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @11:18PM (#737708)
    The future of Slashdot seems intricately bound up to the future of politics

    You know, this is the exact attitude that Signal 11 was exploiting during his karma whore experiment. Wide-eyed folks like you who were always promoting "Slashdotting politics the way we Slashdot webservers" were/are easily exploited in a groupthink/popularity manipulation contest that Siggy played so well.

    I'm not trying to be rude, but unless you yourself are playing that game right now, YHBT.
  • by blameless ( 203912 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2000 @05:01AM (#737709)
    Looks like he's already found a new home. []
  • by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:33PM (#737710)
    from the article;

    One studio executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that new ideas on copy protection for that analog interface are under discussion among PC, consumer electronics and movie makers. Companies such as Hitachi, Intel, Matsushita Sony and Toshiba -- all with a big stake in the issue -- have been working to find a solution, the executive said. He indicated that an answer might emerge in the next few weeks. (bold mine)

    So this is what Sony VP Hecler meant when he said [];

    We will develop technology that transcends the individual user. We will firewall Napster at source -- we will block it at your cable company, we will block it at your phone company, we will block it at your [Internet-service provider]. We will firewall it at your PC.

    So why do I get this 'gut feeling' that we are going to have to buy infallible copy protection for the studios with our future PC purchase???. Does that mean that I can't modify said future hardware purchase without being in violation of the DMCA even if it was for a "legit" purpose??
  • by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:52PM (#737711)
    This will be my last post. It'll probably be buried at -1 for being offtopic, but I no longer care.. there is no forum to express my sentiments.

    I've written a short explanation of all this in my user information page (above).

    So long, Slashdot, and thanks for all the fish.


  • by Soko ( 17987 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @07:35PM (#737712) Homepage
    We read about this [], didn't we kids?

    "1. Every good work of software starts by scratching a developer's personal itch." Far fetched? Hear me out.

    Slashdot, Vanguard (according to Katz, anyway) of the Geek Culture, is a victim of it's own success. I started here not long after Linux hit the mainstream, just as I got curious about the "new OS in town". Seemed like a nice spot. I think a search engine link brought me here. My first post was some drivel about how Linux zealots were being hipocrytes - they wanted users, but only the smart ones, and that wasn't how to complete the "World Domination" they craved. My little diatribe seemed well recieved, and caused a good discussion to happen - so I created my account and have stuck around. (Actually, IIRC, my response was to a someone slagging Kats when he was trying to install Linux on his laptop - and Taco helped him with it. Ironic, eh?) It seems I've watched /. go downhill ever since. Why? Simple - the human need for acceptance. This, faithful Slashdot Readers, Friends, Moderators, Karma Whores and Trolls, is the itch that /. scratches.

    The one thing that always strikes one full in the face about the "geek culture" is that it's real currency is Intellect, and the display thereof. CmdrTaco, in his infinite wisdom, put a real, monetary value to the intellegence displayed by we people who post - Karma points - instead of measuring them by the quality of the thread created. Now, intead of soliciting replies in order to get lively debate, discussion and possibly New Clues, we solicit Karma. Karma, so we don't look like idiots to our peers. Or, if we figure that we don't rate, and haven't got the chance to, we troll [] or pop in as an AC - to hopefully deflect some of the moderators away from putting other people's "Inellect" ahead of our own. Signal 11 [] is right - it's now a contest to see who can win the title of "Most Intellegent Geek", not "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters" - we all seem to want scratch our itch to be viewed as "Intelligent" to our peers.

    No Slashdot account with a cool nic? You're just not in the game anymore, man. Don't run Linux? Further damage to your credibility. Only 3 Karma points? HAHAHHAH, you're either a moron or a Micr$oft shill, dude!

    Personally, it's getting to the point that I don't give a flying fuck about my Karma anymore. +1 Bonus? Who cares. It'll just be drowned out in the rush to be first with some sort of incredibly pendantic navel gazing that we've all heard before. "Preaching to the Chior" indeed.

    At least I don't have to sort through C/Net [], ZDNet [],Kiro5hin [] or the BBC [] to get to the importatnt stuff anymore - just the repeat stories here. VA - you've been HAD.

    "Thank you for your post. That'll be 5.95 in Karma, buddy"
  • by gregbaker ( 22648 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @06:27PM (#737713) Homepage
    What insentive do I have to post meaningful posts?

    So, the only purpose of posting meaningful stuff on Slashdot is getting a higher karma? Is Slashdot some kind of huge interactive video game to everyone else?

    I try to contribute when I have something meaningful to say. Usually that results in me getting moderated up and increasing my karma. So the system works, right?

    Maybe Rob should introduce a "-1 per post" option where you can optionally loose one karma point per post. Would that increase the "challenge"?


  • by Enoch Root ( 57473 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:59PM (#737714)
    Hey, Siggy... I'm afraid my post sits poorly out of context. I didn't criticize you, I replied to your 'karma whore' post from the K5 moderation thread. It got ignored, because it was post #200something... That being said, I didn't accuse you of anything, except of knowingly or unknowingly taking advantage of a flawed system which you tried to fix by expressing your opinion in the aforementionned thread.

    Now, if you left Slashdot, it'd be, like, a part of Slashdot dying off... That being said, I understand; I'm pretty much fed up of it too, and trolling has provided temporary haven from boredom only. It's also a testimony to the fact that whatever effort you make for months on to have a clean rep on Slashdot, a few choice trolls will ruin that, and will provide the incentive for a few morons to publicly wish your death in graphic details.

    To tell you the truth, the so-called 'geek' community, as it is showcased on Slashdot, comes across as one of the most close-minded, hypocritical bunch whose sole interest is looking out for their own narrow-minded view of their dysfunctional world. I don't blame you for wanting out of that.

  • by Enoch Root ( 57473 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @04:28PM (#737715)
    I agree with you. Nowadays, I call myself an 'ex-geek' because of precisely that reason. I never fought over what OS was better, because I like tinkering with all of them. I like having a slick interface in W2K, and I like the hands-on approach and the technical challenge of tweaking Linux. I like tech toys and science bits.

    What I don't like is tight-assed zealots. Nowadays, I'm busy creating and inventing new and cool ways to promote/use WAP and broadband. I'm past my coding years, but I still managed to stay fairly open-minded, creative, and capable of hearing somebody out and changing my opinion.

    Perhaps it's the sheer popularity of Linux. Perhaps the old-timers are still around and lurking.

    But it's a sad testimony on the state of affairs when the most intelligent and open-minded discussions are found on the trolling forums, and the most playful and innovative people on Slashdot are the trolls themselves.

    Like someone else pointed out, trolls didn't break moderation. They merely took advantage of it when it was demonstrated the system was screwed up.

  • by Jason W ( 65940 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @05:40PM (#737716)
    Yeah, moderation isn't perfect. The main flaw is people. We're a very imperfect species, not at all fit to judge each other.

    But the assumption that Slashdot is dying is just plain stupid IMO. First and foremost its "News for Nerds". The frontpage still shows the most relavant news, things that I'm interested in. The comments from the authors and sumbittors are great. Even the dept line is good most of the time.

    Sure, the comments might not be the most intellectual forum possible, but browse at 2. There should really be a setting to display any posivitely moderated comments. Numerical thresholds just don't accomplish their purpose. I think the comments have become more of a place for passing information rather than ideas. Relavant links, past history. And don't forget personal experiences. Sure they're just one person's example, but if we all said what we've been through with a particular topic, a pattern emerges very quickly.

    And even to this day, Slashdot remains the one place where you can post a story and know that anybody in the Open Source/tech community will either read it or hear of it second hand, assuming its worth knowing. Contrast that to CNet, ZDnet, Yahoo, even Reuters. This little site off in nowhere can get news out where it needs to be like nothing else.

    And like someone already mentioned, the political aspects are amazing. It would not be unlikely to see Slashdot to be a great organizing factor in future geek-initiated political movements. I do think Rob needs to get off this "I'm neutral, I swear!" soapbox, or at least let everyone else start spreading some opinion (even Katz has good ideas mixed in).

    Anyhow, just my thoughts. I don't like to see people blasting my favorite website w/o fully exploring the issue. Good luck in whatever you do. Let us know if you find a place better than Slashdot (but don't tell the trolls!).

  • by Nexx ( 75873 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @09:08PM (#737717)


    From the parent post to the one I'm replying to: "Mozilla is dead".

    What I don't like is tight-assed zealots.

    Perhaps the old-timers are still around and lurking

    We old-timers would call many of the current cap of zealots Linux-weenies, after the similar UNIX-weenies of the bygone era. It's sad, really, when the spirit of the old-school UNIX hackers died at the same time as the popularisation of Linux, many of us left the geek scene.

    I made a comment the other day to a coworker, when asked what I thought of Linux as an OS. I replied, "It sucks less than most of them out there" (note: this was being asked by a guy with at least an MS in CS, with a solid grounding in OS theory, and has read about 40-50% of the Linux source, and analised its strengths and weaknesses as a solution. How many of us have actually done so lately?). Yeah, it's more stable than Win9x, but that's like saying my car's faster than a tricycle. Compared even to NT, Linux suddenly seems less stellar.

    What I really get annoyed by is the Linux-weenies (who tend to cluster around the ages of ~14-20) who get some half-baked idea in their heads, and try to ram it down everybody elses' throats. Yeah, some of them are downright brilliant (both ideas and the youngun's), but the sheer arrogance of these people sickens me. It kind of reminds me of the MacOS zealotry of the early 90's, actually, when Mac started to die.

    Is Linux dying? Yes. Linux as we knew it in 1993-1995 is dead. Try ramming something like the a.out -> ELF format change down the Linux zealots' throats now. Actually, I would love to see this. It's time to grow up, people. Open is great, but Open isn't the only way to play.

    Mozilla-as-Netscape, btw, is dead in many peoples' eyes. It died when Netscape released NS 4.5. It continued to rot as NS, and AOL-NS, released 4.6 and the nauseatingly large patch levels 4.7. Meanwhile, "Public Beta"'s come out every six months, look ugly as sin, and is still not 100% standards-compliant (the best one still out there, imo, is IE 5.0 for the Macintosh). Lovely. This just gives the corporate suits more ammo to not play by the counterculture rules. Sorry, kids, but they/we (I now work for a large multinational as a member of the management now...yeah, I used to be a geek) write the rules. It's time to wake and grow up.


  • by NaughtyEddie ( 140998 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @04:37PM (#737718)
    Bye bye, Signal 11. I must say I'm sorry to see you go - it's just one less voice of reason on this, the website of idiots.

    Do you remember when AOL started sending people to the newsgroups?

    The future of Slashdot seems intricately bound up to the future of politics. If we can solve these mass-community problems in the comforting realm of Slashdot, we can eventually do it in politics, and make a fair system of government someday. If we - the brightest of our generation - can't do this, then what hope does government by the people have?

    It's a .88 magnum -- it goes through schools.

  • by big balls ( 237452 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:06PM (#737719)
    Think about creative uses for Force-Feedback joysticks...


  • by Joe Groff ( 11149 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @04:37PM (#737720) Homepage
    Why don't you sell your nick on eBay? You'd get $1000 at least.

    Anyway, good luck, wherever you end up..

    - Joe

  • by Upsilon ( 21920 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:16PM (#737721)
    I don't see how any reasonable person could possibly be upset about this. Afterall, do you see anyone attacking VCRs or DVD players because they can be used to show pornography? What's the big deal about the fact that the PS2 could be used for pornography? I'm sure that any such blatantly pornographic materials will be regulated just the same as any other pornographic materials. I'll leave the debate of whether this is good or not for another time, but my point in this post is the simple fact that I don't see what makes this case in any way unique.
  • by Enoch Root ( 57473 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:47PM (#737722)
    I posted this in an earlier moderation story, and it got ignored because the comment ID was too high. So I'm reposting it. It's Slashback, so that's not really offtopic, is it?

    As a karma whore turned troll [], let me chime in.

    Why is Slashdot a circus of karma whores and trolls at the moment? Slashdot moderation is failing because of exactly the Delphi effect that Signal 11 tries to promote: the more you spread the ability to vote, the more rating the comment becomes a popularity contest.

    Trolls know this well, and so do karma whores, to an extent: it's a simple matter of politics. Democracy was cracked by power-hungry lobbyists pretty much the same way Slashdot was cracked by the trolls. If you want enlightened comments and worthwhile discussions, then placing the debate in the hands of the silent majority is just going to create a mess.

    Take Big Brother as an example: are you surprised the pretty face with the missing leg won? This shows you how pathetic it was to let the whole Internet vote. If you compare with Survivor, where the people involved in the action did the voting, there's a modicum of sense that arises. The winner was not the prettiest or the most popular, but the one who worked the hardest and made the most sense.

    In Slashdot terms, the problem comes from the fact that those who moderate are necessarely uninvolved in the debate at hand. This allows trolls and karma whores to manipulate the popular opinion, while ACs sink karma faster than an omniscient Battleship player.

    What you want is closer to peer review that you find in scientific papers. You want moderators who know what the hell is going on, and have proved they are unbiased.

    Democracy works when everyone votes. But it doesn't work insofar as empowering everyone with the ability to run the show. Slashdot needs to realize that if they ever hope to run a decent discussion site.

    I'd like to see either Signal 11 or myself get moderated up in a story we don't know shit about, when the moderators are authorities on the subject.

    And by the way, if you moderated this down because of the goatsex [] link, you're probably part of the problem I just described.

  • by levendis ( 67993 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:12PM (#737723) Homepage
    I'm glad to see Gamefan die. If Lowtax @ Something Awful [] is telling the truth, they screwed him out of thousands of $$$ in banner ad revenue. Its nice to see a big corporate sleaze hole get screwed in return.

    Jeff K. Rluez!!!
  • by ZikZak ( 153813 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @06:38PM (#737724)
    You can't leave, Siggy. It just doesn't work. You will stop posting under this account, but you will always be a reader. And eventually (about a month in my experience) you will see something that you just have to reply to.

    The reason /. is so successful is because of all the games you can play and all the drama that ensues. The tech news is just an excuse to be here.

    If all this fun moderation, hidden sids, outrageous personalities, impersonation, trolling, etc. didn't exist then this would be just another web log that would have already died. We can get our news anywhere. Only slash has the ridiculously disfunctional community of people who thrive on feeling superior to each other.

    I'll repeat this, because I can not overstate its importance: If all the things you (and everyone else) complained about didn't exist, then /. also would not exist, at least not in any meaningful form. If people really just wanted small scale, intelligent discussion they would just join a mailing list.

    The soap opera drama that is Slashdot is what keeps people here.

    The real reason you are "leaving" (like I said, no one really leaves) is because you are tired of being one of the main characters on stage. I don't blame you. You *ahem* "shined" far brighter than any other, and I don't think anyone else will ever achieve your level of notariety here.

    So, make your speeches or whatever. You'll be back, and it won't be the news that brings you.

    And a footnote for those of you who will disagree with me: I am right. The only reason you don't recognize it is because you are living a lie, trying to convince yourself that you're here for "pure" reasons. It's all a game, so you might as well admit to being a player.

  • by Lostman ( 172654 ) on Monday October 02, 2000 @03:21PM (#737725)
    When Vivid Entertainment was asked to comment on the current situation, the CEO had this to say:

    "I am outraged that consumers are even THINKING that we are targeting children. Every CD bought comes with a EULA that requires them to return the merchandise if they are not at least 21 years old."

    When asked why Vivid Entertainment Group gives 5 packs of Pokemon Trading Cards with each purchase, he had no comment.

1 1 was a race-horse, 2 2 was 1 2. When 1 1 1 1 race, 2 2 1 1 2.