
Non-Profit Australian ISP: Thrift Through Penguins 111
An unnamed correspondent writes: "Typically, rural areas in Australia have been left behind when it comes to adopting new technologies, inlcuding the Internet. GrowZone Online is a Linux powered, non-profit ISP that has over 40 points of presence covering an area of 412,000 square kilometers across South Central Queensland, Australia. What was achieved by the small technical team is quite remarkable, including hacking pppd to support Radius Authentication, MicroSoft CBCP Client-Server support with Radius Integration as well as Idle and Session Timeout functionality. The article is at LinuxWorld.com.au under Enterprise." A 7-man team that's dealt with such a distributed network's administration while hacking pppd deserves some recognition. Note to Americans: 412,000 square kilometers is about 3/5 the size of Texas.
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:3)
--Shoeboy
I seem to recall outrage at the metric switch when (Score:1)
But getting back to Americans using the English system instead of the metric, I'm all for the old-fashioned ways. It's kind of a typically stubborn American thing to do, an expression of our stereotypical individualism. The only thing that annoys me is that they don't teach the metric system alongside the traditional English system in elementary schools, which would allow most Americans to communicate better with the outside world.
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
but have never heard of that telecom company.
All I've ever been advertised at about was
Telecom cum Telstra.
Damn yankees (Score:1)
Mixed up British (Score:1)
Shops sell weights in grams and kilos. (It was said that in only dope dealers use ounces now, but then Tescos decided to go back to imperial by "popular demand")
And then theres Tonnes. How heavy is a ton, anybody? Is that metric or imperial?
Fax paper dimensions are measued in mixed units, that is one its dimensions is measued in imperial, the other in metric.
Distance is normally measued in metric, except for on the road, where we have distance in miles and miles per hour.
How about a billion. How many zeros in a billion? Are you sure?
Progress eh? Who needs it... :)
Thad
Another Surrey dweller eh? (Score:1)
Well I've just wasted quarter of an hour at work trying to find the area of Surrey on the web to no avail. My best guess is several times bigger :)
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
Well... not really.. Many for-profit ISP's offer the illusion of quality. At least here in The Netherlands, many of the larger players are struggling in a technical sense, because of their commercial success. Cable companies have no competition here. They are region bound so you can't switch to another provider. They get away with poor performance and essentially no service whatsoever. There's many 'free' ISP's here that do a better job supporting their users than the big guys on cable...
Rob
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
Remember Nasa lost a satellite b/c the software (Locheed, I guess) forgot to do the conversion b/w American units (feet, mile..) to Metric units (defacto Scientific measurement unit)?
When I heard the news, I thought 'what a waste! THis can only happen in America'
I personally don't care what unit we use, as long as every one around us are talking the same thing....
*chuckle*
LinuxLover
Units of drugs (Score:1)
Hmm, dope is by the eighth of an ounce or more up to a 9-bar and then it goes metric but speed/coke is by the gram until you get to a quarter of an ounce (approx 7 grams). Odd that :)
Re:On the Right to Bear Arms.... (Score:1)
See, we got our explicitly-spelled-out right to bear arms from the fact that an oppressive government (Britain) was denying the Colonies the same rights Englishmen had, and was trying to restrict gun ownership and importation as one measure to keep the Colonies under their thumb [omissis] If an oppressive and tyrannical regime ever gets power in any European country, the people have no weapons with which to protect themselves or rise up. I remember that Gandhi has been able to lead India to independence from England without using guns/violence. So guns are not necessary to get rid of an oppressive regime.
Re:Note to Americans: 412,000 square kilometers is (Score:1)
More information on the state of Metric vs Imperial can be found in this comment [slashdot.org].
Thad
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
There is no law that (in Australia) states that a Not for Profit organisation NOT to make a profit. Many Credit Unions here are not for profit, but makes profits anyway.
In real terms , is that whatever money they make , is reinvested back into the company as capital improvements.
Given the deplorable state of internet in Australia, especially rural users, you will find that many organisations would assits in capital for such an organistion, including State and Federal governments, and regional organisations like Shire Councils, Regonal development and industry lobby groups.
For an Aussie, this comes under the heading of "A fair go"
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
Million = 10^(6 * 1)
Billion = 10^(6 * 2) (Bi = 2, get it?)
Trillion = 10^(6 * 3) (Tri = 3)
etc. It's much more logical than the million = 10^6, billion = 10^9 system. I've never heard of the 'mi' prefix used anywhere else, but we can just pretend that's logical too.
Re:GrowZone stole our LUG (Score:1)
you would have know that the members of LUG,
shut it down due to restrictions placed upon it
by USQ and Student Guild club rules
So the members decided to form a new group
called THUuG. Not limiting it to USQ staff and students.
yours
Kim
hawtink@thuug.org.au
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Imagine how different American influence would be now if the Third Reich was the whole of Europe, Russia, China and most of Asia with the US just a short balistic missile or two away.
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
There was a time when curency was measured in US billions, and scientific measurements used English billions. The meant that an x bilion volt generator at y billion pounds didn't give x/y volts per pound.
Re:big area, small population (Score:1)
Re:i hate you slashdot (Score:1)
Re:On the Right to Bear Arms.... [& metric system] (Score:1)
Ironic that a country that was so oppressed by the British is one of the few in the world that still uses their system of weights and measures.
Re:If the Shoeboy fits.... (Score:1)
I was simply defending myself.
--Shoeboy
Re:Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:2)
Or the British Board of Film Classification, as we like to call it over here...
www.bbfc.co.uk [bbfc.co.uk]
Re:What is happening to Slashdot? (Score:1)
Re:What is happening to Slashdot? (Score:1)
Re:Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:1)
I suppose you don't regard pepper spray, tear gas and truncheons used against peaceful protesters as repressive? Perhaps the police didn't read the Constitution...
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Re:Umm... (Score:1)
That's because most ISP's have enough funding to purchase access equipment rather than rolling their own. For what it's worth, I hacked pppd similarly for Brokersys [brokersys.com] about four years ago. For a while, there all our dial-ins were on custom-built Linux-based terminal servers. I did all the pppd hacking in a couple of weeks. The idle timer took longer, but worked better than the one in the Ascend Maxen we use now.
However, I decided that as soon as we could get funding for such things that it was better to buy someone else's solution. The issues involved were the desire to purchase ISDN PRI's for the telephone service along with the desire to offer ISDN dial-in access to customers along with the realization that I had better things to do than maintain a really crufty pppd hack.
It also turns out that, if your revenue level supports it, you can get really good financing deals from the equipment manufacturers. For the last three years, Cisco's been trying to convince us to lease some AS-5200's, which we probably will never do as we're deemphasizing the dial-in stuff.
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
I think the point here is that something is better than nothing. If you're the only ISP, you're the benchmark, unless you're going to compare to kangaroo-tipping. We here in North America can bitch and complain long and hard about "quality" ISP's, but if you're living in the outback and have NO ACCESS at all, you'd be eternally grateful for ANY access, even if it was a flaky, slow, hit-and-miss ISP.
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
Actually, its 25.4 millimetres. A meter is a device to show the value of something, often voltages....
Damn Americans....
[BTW: And, isn't it more sensible: 1000 millimetres to a metre. 1000 metres to a kilometre. Your forebears had the right idea with metric money, but didn't carry it far enough.]
This post [outside the square brackets] was meant to be funny, but I'm told I'm not very good with sarcasm.
--
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
Actually, no - it's 25.4 millimeters, to be exact
(or 2.54 centimeters
GrowZone stole our LUG (Score:1)
--
Congrats Guys! (Score:1)
Kim, Phil, Tony, Terry, Dave, Cameron all of you have done a fantastic job bringing internet access to our less bandwidth-aware brethern
Oh, and RedBeard, up for being thrashed at the kart track on the weekend?
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:2)
I can think of several reasons why it might not be in the interest of a for-profit business to provide the best service:
1. They obtain their customers by sinking cash in advertising, and knowing that the average customer will not bother to change ISP unless their existing one inconveniences them severely. They find that the small number of customers gained by having excellent service rather than mediocre-but-not-too-annoying service is not worth the money that the upgrade would cost.
2. They are the only ISP around, or the only ISP providing some particular service. Again, it is now in their interest to provide the service that costs them the least, regardless of quality.
Most ISP's operate on some variant of Principle 1.
I can also think of several reasons why the not-for-profit ISP might still want to provide a decent service.
1. They are running the service because they use it themselves. Therefore it is in their interest for it to work well.
2. They are doing it for the geekish joy of setting it all up beautifully and getting the best out of their kit.
3. They are doing it to gain a reputation within the local community, or the geek community, or to have something impressive to put on a CV. Are they going to want to muck it up and look like idiots?
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
Now, given that Australia Internet is currently severely restricted by the Telus monopoly (which is, to be certain, idiotic), you might think that is still a improvement. But it seems to me like that this isn't much better -- sure, it might be non-profit, but if it doesn't have incentive to improve, you might wind up stuck using a ridiculously overpriced ISP with terrible customer service. And you know what? They won't care, because they don't want your money
So what, exactly, is wrong with them providing this service? If it gets to be too expensive, or too crappy, then (if there's enough demand) a for-profit company can compete with them. Or does the fact that they're non-profit, and can thus offer low prices, exclude compition? Would it be better for these people to have no ISPs, or really high-price ISPs, until (sometime in the future) decent Internet connectivity trickles into the area?
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose that you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Re:Congrats Guys! (Score:1)
--Shoeboy
We Aren't Generic--We're Just Imperialistic (Score:1)
But more importantly, America is very individual and distinct from the rest of the world in some fundamental and important ways. No matter how much we complain about the erosion of our rights in contemporary times, Americans still have far more freedom than people in most other countries, even Western ones. We have rights which are difficult to chip away, even though some in our government are trying. For example, an American can say whatever the fuck he wants as long as it doesn't cause a threat of immediate danger to others or constitute a threat or slander. Contrast this with, for example, France and Germany, where you aren't free to express any opinions about the 2nd World War which go against the mainstream. Also, the whole mess that Britain has been going through over making it illegal to not decrypt files when asked to by police/courts--that could never happen in the U.S., because we have a set-in-stone Fifth Amendment right to not self-incriminate or be compelled to hand over incriminating evidence against ourselves. If Congress ever tried what Parliament tried, the Court would instantly get rid of it (just like they got rid of the CDA and provisions of COPA). Also, though we may unfairly and prudishly self-censor sexuality, we are unique in Western societies for our lack of censorship of violent imagery in films and games. We also have the right to bear arms, a right the Europeans long ago gave up. So we are, I say again, individualists here in the U.S.
Comparative cost of capital ... (Score:1)
<P>
Let's not get too cocksure of ourselves
<P>
LL
Re:Another Surrey dweller eh? (Score:1)
hahahaha!
Actually I live in Hackney and used to live in the Lothians (that's a bit of London and a bit of Scotland for those who aren't sure) but I couldn't resist the 'Tim nice but dim' upper class English twat gag and reckoned that Surrey worked better... ;-)
The Power of open source (Score:1)
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
The main problem with these free ISPs is the lack of service. Try calling the tech support for freei.net and you'll be on hold for hours. f these free providers could straighten their acts up in regards to tech support, they'd be a lot better. ... I like the idea of free internet, but something tells me it's a long way from being perfected.
I don't think that the Australian ISP being discussed is free, just low-cost. Also, even if they don't have good tech support, being able to get Internet connectivity with bad tech support is better than not having it at all.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose that you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Re:Today's discussion topic... (Score:2)
The only alternative for most people is to make a long distance call to the nearest major center, which can get just as pricey!
I now live in Sydney, and have cable. I'm paying the same money (per month) for a far better service. There is a very big divide between rural and urban areas in Australia, so anything that can help people connect and provided them with information that they need is great! I (used to) know how isolated they feel :)
Re:We Aren't Generic--We're Just Imperialistic (Score:1)
While I don't feel especially free in the UK, I have to say that the mere fact of NOT having a written constitution allows freedoms based on the individual merits of the case rather than a dogmatic reference to some document written some time ago in history.
I hear some people raving about US freedom and the "beauty" of the declaration of independence in a very similar way to victims of propaganda have done all through history.
To me, it seems that minority views suffer more in the US than in most places even if their "oppression" is far less extreme there than in other places. I would also suggest that frightening litigation compulsion of the US is akin to a lack of freedom. Though the story is probably not particularly true, McDonalds can be sued for serving coffee too hot! It is the tip of a very damaging iceberg.
Basically, I think that US citizens need to really be careful about their use of the word freedom and to understand it rather than just talk about it. For example, the reference to the French and German point you mentioned smacks of tabloid propaganda and is basically not true. You can believe and indeed say what you like about nazism and the war. You can understand them being touchy about it though, the German people were utterly humiliated in that war by their government and the Allies, and for the second time. The Americans are similary a bit twitchy about vietnam.
Actually the place I have found the most "free" is Istanbul. Sure, there are a lot of odd laws but nobody pays any attention to them and nobody cares if you obey them or not, just so long as you're having a nice relaxed time of it.
Regards
Re:Another Surrey dweller eh? (Score:1)
Actually I'm from London now living in Surrey... although there are a lot of upper class twats in Surrey, they're certainly not anywhere near where I live :)
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
I like miles, pints, ounces, grains, yards, hectares, shillings, bars,
and one for those Dan Americans the Gallon.
Re:We Aren't Generic--We're Just Imperialistic (Score:1)
Re:GrowZone stole our LUG (Score:1)
--
Re:GrowZone stole our LUG (Score:1)
the problem was basicly, that if lug wanted to charge its members a joining or membership fee,
then there had to be restriction placed upon the
group when they used usq facilities for non staff
and non students etc
there was also restrictions placed on lug if it
wanted to have a association with the student
guild, there had to be a minimum percentage of
student to non-students
so USQ-LUG closed by its members, myself being a one of the three founding members present, and we then formed the new group, THUuG.
THUuG is independent of USQ. It is independent of GrowZone, four of its members just work here... =)
yours,
kim
GrowZone Online
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
It was said that in only dope dealers use ounces now...
Naah, you can get other drugs by the ounce too... :)
And then theres Tonnes. How heavy is a ton, anybody? Is that metric or imperial?
Is that a ton or a tonne?
How about a billion. How many zeros in a billion? Are you sure?
I don't think I've seen anyone use the British billion (that's 1,000,000,000,000 for our USian friends) ever. Which I'm honestly thankful for because the alternative would be too confusing...
Re:Congrats Guys! (Score:1)
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:2)
The official measurement of volume in the UK is how many double-decker buses would fit into a space. And the measurement of length is always by comparison with Nelson's Column. I'm not sure what the unit for area is, but you could simply divide one by the other, thus measuring area in 'double-decker buses per Nelson's Column'.
As for Surrey, do you mean the ancient county, or the administrative county after chopping off most of south-west London?
Umm... (Score:1)
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
Perhaps better to focus on the excellent technical work being done here than spout pseudo-economics...
Jason
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
When are you going to leave the evil empire and come over to the side of truth and beauty?
--
Re:Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:1)
Yeah, yeah, you know what I meant... and I'm not even American. *sigh* :)
Note to Americans: 412,000 square kilometers is ab (Score:1)
Re:Units of drugs (Score:1)
Then again, how often have you bought a half kilo of smack? ;)
Not often enough :)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:2)
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
Re:We Aren't Generic--We're Just Imperialistic (Score:1)
In the past, we just assumed we had those rights. Written rights are only needed if they're likely to be taken away.
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
A model for developing countries? (Score:1)
Perhaps a model like this could be packaged as an off-the-shelf (or almost off-the-shelf) solution for other underserved areas. I'm thinking mostly of developing countries. A model that was built expressly to be easily replicable could be made available to anyone who wanted to set up an ISP in an underserved area. This would bring costs and risks down for potential entrepreneurs; a critical factor in low-income areas.
Perhaps Geekcorps or a similar initiative could take on such a project.
But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:5)
Under the basic principles of capitalism, for-profit ISPs offer us the assurance of quality. There are many, many ISPs all competing these days, and for the most part, it's a level playing field. No ISP could risk offering a poorer package than its competitors, or all its customers would switch and run the ISP out of business -- this is why "pay per hour" plans died out so quickly. On the other hand, a non-profit ISP isn't out to make money, so why do they care what you think of them?
Now, given that Australia Internet is currently severely restricted by the Telus monopoly (which is, to be certain, idiotic), you might think that is still a improvement. But it seems to me like that this isn't much better -- sure, it might be non-profit, but if it doesn't have incentive to improve, you might wind up stuck using a ridiculously overpriced ISP with terrible customer service. And you know what? They won't care, because they don't want your money.
Not only that, but poor standards for Australian Internet access is only to going to lead to trouble down the line -- people begin to accept what they use as being "the standard", and are reluctant to demand something better. Why do you think people don't care about stuff like the Internet Millennium Copyright Act or M1cr05of7's monopolies? Even dictators can wield power over Third World countries, and no one cares. Because people are used to the way things are now, and don't see things the way they should be. Better isn't always good enough.
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
IIRC, there isn't an "official" language here.
some reading on those that want to change that. [us-english.org]
--
Damn foreigners... (Score:3)
What's with this metric BS. It's too confusing.
Anyway, here's some handy conversion info:
An inch is the outer part of a man's thumb, 25.4 millimeter to be exact. 12 inches to a foot, two feet to a cubit or three feet to a yard.
A rod/pole is 5.5 yards (16.5 feet): The size of a big stick carried around by builders (hence the name).
Four rods make a chain (22 yards) - the distance between two (cricket) wickets. Ten chains make a furlong. A furlong square is ten acres. Eight furlongs make a mile.
A perch was originaly a big stick, but later became a volume. A perch was a pile of stone one rod long by one foot wide by one cubit high).
--Shoeboy
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Re:Today's discussion topic... (Score:1)
--
Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Terribly sorry old chap, I'm English.
No problem with the kilometres, we converted to metric in...I think it was 1971 (maybe that was decimalisation) .. anyhow long enough we understand the units of measurement.
But would you mind explaining what 412,000 km represents in English Counties: how big is it compared to Surrey, perhaps?
Today's discussion topic... (Score:2)
Today's topic is:
Pegasus Networks was doing this years ago.
Discuss.
...j
Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:1)
This will be the last time I post in this thread because it's gotten off-topic, thanks to *you*. But a few last points:
> 1. RIP isn't going to pass with the self-incrimination clause, due to this: democracy
Tell that to all the very reputable people in the UK who were deathly afraid it was going to pass. Oh, and in the U.S. no one would need to worry about it at all, because we have a rock-solid provision in our Constitution which would prevent such a law from ever getting past the Court, even if Congress were stupid enough to pass it. Contrast that to the restrictive UK gov't under secretary Jack Straw, that militant freedom-crushing bastard. "Democracy" is the way you describe it; "tyranny" is how most Americans (assuming they paid any attention to world affairs, which sadly they don't) would describe it.
> 2. unique for your lack of censorship of violent imagery? well, fuck, that's
> something to be proud of. what a shame that *everything else* - bad language?
> subversive or independent thought? - is censored.
Yes, not censoring violent imagery in film and literature, or even in games, *is* something to be proud of. There are many films which would never pass the Film Board in Britain, but in which violence is a necessary part of the plot, structure, or artistic expression. There are many classic movies, and art-house films, which are heavily censored in Britain and elsewhere, even though they ooze with artistry. Granted, the U.S. film industry self-censors sex scenes, which is plain stupid and backwards, but ultimately less damaging (since films with explicit sex can still be released here, just with the NC-17 rating) to good films than censoring violence. Try making a great film about violent criminals, or about the victims of violent crime, without heavy violence. Stupidity. The world is a violent place sometimes--deal with it. And bad language isn't censored, you stupid fucking motherfucking cocksucking arse-licking bum-humping fuckheaded shitbrained son of a bitch-whore bloody anal-fisting limpdick.
> 4. you are a dick. as long as there are people like you who are willing to exist
> under the pretence of your supposed "rights" nothing is ever going to change
Anyone can look at my past posts and see that I don't agree with much of the American government's bullshit, and I express my disdain vocally here and elsewhere. Since I live near Washington, D.C., I go to protests when I get pissed off at gov't foolishness. In how many other countries can you openly protest without fear of arrest just a few yards from the home of your country's president/prime minister/leader? Try getting that close to 10 Downing Street for a protest. Not bloody likely. But yes, I am a dick; I concede that much.
> 5. you stink of shit
Thanks for noticing. It's been five days since I left my computer long enough for a shower, and I'm starting to get a bit gamey. And there appears to be a ham sandwich stuck under one of my armpits, and the mayonnaise has gone rancid. Just kidding...
Bye, my own personal troll-boy. Get your own life and stop shadowing my posts--I know it's been you these past few times because of your idiosyncratic language use. Grow up, kiddie.
No, you don't (Score:1)
using the wrong side of a road won't make u different it makes u idiot.
So? (Score:1)
But Australia does not exist! (Score:1)
Re:Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:1)
Bye, my own personal troll-boy. Get your own life and stop shadowing my posts--I know it's been you these past few times because of your idiosyncratic language use. Grow up, kiddie.
I'm undecided on whether you're being serious or you're just a troll yourself, albeit a more "informed" one. But whichever way it is, you certainly seem to piss people off!
Oh and for your information the British Film Board has just relaxed the restrictions on sex in films. Now we can have closeups of penetration and ejaculation on film. Woohoo! :)
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
1) Hating it, disregarding its logic and ease as being of "minor importance"
2) Endorsing it (in vain of course) and being stuck in the middle. Just like Linux advocating was like a few years ago.
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
It was actually based on the width of a very special thumb, namely the King's.
Metric will prevail. Lionize Carter, excoriate Reagan.
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
So for me, the world has around 5 or 6 "miljard" people.
Ivo
Re:We Aren't Generic--We're Just Imperialistic (Score:1)
Possibly because most civilised countries realised that guns are dangerous?
I happen to think that the UK government went too far when it completely banned pistol ownership - pistol shooting clubs should have been allowed to keep guns securely on the premises, but allowing the populace at large the right to own firearms seems stupid.
In the UK, most of the police are unarmed, because most of the people they deal with, including the criminals, are unarmed. I feel a lot safer over here than I would in the US.
This new fangled metric stuff (Score:1)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:2)
Duuuuhhhh, i'm an American....duh, whats Australia? Duh, kill-o-meters? I'm confused, i sure wish people would use real measures like wot i was told about in school. Duh, i'm off to wrestle pigs now.
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:1)
Actually, no - it's 2.54 millimeters, to be exact
Hmm... (Score:1)
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
http://snopes.com/spoons/fracture/germ an.htm [snopes.com]
Re:Damn Americans... (Score:1)
Area of the State of Texas: 267,339 sq. mi. Area of the United Kingdom: 94,251 sq. mi. HTH!
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:2)
Yep - after all, Windows 3.0 was really crap, then along came this Torvalds guy giving his OS away free. If a for-profit company can't produce a decent OS, what hope does a non-profit band of volunteers have?
Maybe it's because a for-profit company's sole aim is to make profit - while the sole aim of these non-profits is to provide the best service possible. Put like that, it seems clear which will lead to the better service :-)
It may not work out, but I certainly hope it does. Like the many other volunteer projects we see here - Linux, Apache, Wine ... - they are setting out to make things better. Not to make a fast buck, not to set up a huge company, but to provide a better service. IMO, they are a long way ahead of any for-profit ISP already in that respect.
Re:A model for developing countries? (Score:1)
Re:Mixed up British (Score:1)
Also, it's the weight of a cube with dimensions
1m by 1m by 1m (filled with plain water) (1 million litres). Isn't it beautiful?
Re:Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:1)
Actually, until Margaret Thatcher put the gates up you could knock on the door of 10 Downing Steet. Now you have to do it about 10 yards (see, on topic!) down the street.
Regards
Re:But where is the assurance of quality? (Score:1)
The main problem with not-for-profit organisations is one of investment capital. Something like an ISP is quite expensive to setup, and reasonably expensive to run at a reasonable level of service. However, if you run your business in such a way that at the end of the finanical year your debits and credits balance against each other, and you haven't made one single penny, what do you do when you need to upgrade your bandwidth due to an influx of customers?
So, we accept that you do actually need to run at profit, but at the end of the financial year you should have a big pot of money to give people raises, invest in infrastructure, maybe look at integrating new services and technologies into your portfolio. Funnily enough, this is exactly what commercial ISPs do as well, except they invest slightly less, thereby giving a cash surplus to give to shareholders.
In this case you have a choice - you either price yourself at the same level as the commercial ISPs and accept that you will have more money to invest in infrastrucutre (therby giving you a better level of service in theory), or you price yourself below the commercial ISPs and invest the same amount, but your customer is going to get the same service at the same price.
This differs from the Open Source model, where there is no upfront investment required other than people's time. You don't need to throw a few million at the project and then hope to re-coup that money within a given time frame, as you can throw a few resources at it and see a little progress made, which will encourage more resources hopefully (in the form of voluntary developers) and so on.
The point about this organisation in Australia appears to be that they are doing something for the community more than anything else. The bottom line doesn't matter to them as they are entering into a market nobody else will. However, once the larger commercial ISPs see that there is a market there, you can expect them to be making their way onto their territory. It's at this point that they they are going to have to work out whether they are going to invest in infrastructure more, or offer a lower priced service. Price wars with big companies are a bad thing to get into.
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Yay Imperial (Score:2)
(shamelessly stolen from the Simpsons)
Re:Wow...I Have a Fan Club. (Score:2)
"On the Waterfront" wasn't bad .....
Excellent News! (Score:3)
Non-Profit ISP? (Score:2)
Re:Damn foreigners... (Score:2)