Penguin Payola: More On "Purchased" Reviews 42
David Hume writes: "Upside Today has an article entitled Penguin Payola
which also does a good job of surrounding the recent complaining by Tucows and ZD-Net that Linux reviews are bought instead of earned. Upside Today reaches the same concusion as Penguinista regarding Reality On The "Purchased" Linux Reviews."
Somewhat offtopic, inaccurate "Linux Games" page (Score:1)
"We want to open up the environment so that the next John Carmack can
get his game to market," says Gildred, alluding to the id Software
co-founder who got his start writing the industry-shaking freeware
game "Doom." "We want to make it easy for new developers to get onto
our platform and get new games out."
While industry-shaking, Doom wasn't freeware, it was shareware. Not only that, but Doom was far from id's (and Carmack's) first game. Commander Keen was the first for id (with Carmack), and a little game called Wolfenstein 3d comes to mind too.
I dunno, just bothers me almost as much as confusing copyright, trademark, and patents.
Re:One Big Stick: Free (Score:1)
/. has no choice BUT to post 3 stories like this. (Score:1)
Unfortunately, the linux zealots seem to be bitching about the links being nothing but FUD anyway. So they really can't win in this matter.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:3)
Maybe Slashdot has somehow been getting free software out of this.
Re:I get free software all the time... (Score:1)
I made a really bad review of SuSe for PPC, and it was crap (it still is), wrote it, and didn't get a word about this bad review from SuSe.
I use Debian, but have been using Redhat-alike for years, so I don't give a shit about a distributor telling me what I should say about its software. And if somebody's trying to buy my review, I would point it out in the next issue, and they go down to hell.
That's it, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press. You got this in my country.
Is it just me...??? (Score:1)
Is it just me or has this practice been going on for quite some time? Various things often entice journalists (and often entire magazines) to ally themselves with one particular company or software product, whether those things be free software, personal beliefs, or sometimes, boatloads of money and endorsements.
I find it a bit shady, though, that most of the "journalists" reporting on this don't even cite their sources, not to mention that they're reporting off of each other's stories, at this point. I'm not surprised that ZDNet picked up on this and spun it in the way that they did (since they've taken so much criticism and abuse from the Linux community in general), but for other sites to "continue" their story and research with very few direct quotes or names mentioned is ridiculous. When are the press-reading public going to realise that EVERY press agency and worker always inputs their own bias into every piece of work that they produce?
Like I said, this is a practice that's been going on probably since the first journalists. Who can honestly be objective about a subject that they have opinion about?
How Giveaway S/W Made Me Like Linux (Score:3)
In retrospect, I now know this was an evil plot to indoctrinate me into the hellish world of free software.
In the past, I read these really cool (and totally objective) internet news and PC magazines that told me the truth about how great microsoft was, how stable the PC platform was, and how sending them hundreds of dollars a year for software was good for me and America.
It's terrible the way these free software people have warped my fragile little mind.
There oughta be a law.
Re:it doesn't matter (Score:1)
who cares if it hurts the consumer. there are hundreds of REAL LIFE problems like suicide, drug use, poverty, war, AIDS, and mental illness.
You forgot Britney Spears.
Read it again (Score:1)
They make fun of the idea at the beginning, but then the article goes on to cite REAL journalistic (or research) flaws in other publications. So Upside's position seems to be "it doesn't happen, and even if it did everybody is doing it". That's not an answer.
In any case, I don't read software reviews, especially for Linux. Here's what I do with a software review:
1) Read the description fo the software
2) Check license as listed in review
3) If license is not free (libre AND gratis) or desc is not interesting, turn the page
4) If the license IS free and the desc is interesting, download the software and try it myself.
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Re:ESR is no better than Chineese Linux Communists (Score:1)
BTW freedom is the thing that highly centralized systems like communism are most afraid of. Freedom ruins them very fast and effectively
I don't know what ERS said about Chinese but if he really stated that it would be bad if Chinese used made Linux their official OS - well millions of new Linux users is good but on the other hand if they are forced to do this it's very very bad - Everyone must be able to make his choise!(even if we don't like his choise)
Most probably you have not lived in a country where your rights are higly retricted but it's awful. What if you were forced to use Windows
Companies give away software. Film at 11. (Score:2)
Remember, people - the effective cost of a single software package, in box, is almost zero. This makes giving it away in large quantities a reasonable deal for the vendor. Microsoft even gives away enormous amounts of their stuff. I'm writing this whilst sitting in my my computer room at home - looking at the bookshelves I'd reckon that almost half the boxes I see there were free or extremely low-cost (like under $50 for a full retail copy of expensive software).
People get free copies of software for reasons other than reviewing. Influence is important, too. I wrote a handful of user group newsletter reviews, one review years back for Linux Journal, and a few other odds and ends, but that only accounts for a fraction of my free boxes of software. I got others sent to me at random when I ran a user group (a NetWare one), others when I worked for resellers, still more when I was running IT at a graphics shop, and more as a "thank you" for beta testing code. It's a routine, common suck-up for software publishers.
The only reason some people are paying attention to free copies of software all of a sudden is because of the proliferation of websites that present opinions and reviews. It's not news. And maybe a handful of people who do reviews for a handful of websites are influenced by getting free software - a tiny number, if it's true at all. Guess what. The same phenomenon will happen in the Windows and Mac worlds, too. It's not just a Linux thing. There's a lot of small enthusiast sites there that get free review stuff, too. Overall, the good stuff gets raves, and the crap gets slammed. Same as it ever was.
C'mon, folks. This is rapidly ceasing to be either News For Nerds or Stuff That Matters.
- -Josh Turiel
Poor reviewers (Score:2)
Someone reviewing a shiny new copy of RH6.2 might very well say 'gosh, neat package, loads nice, etc.', whilst ignoring the fact that 6.2 STILL doesn't include a bug fix for a particular problem pointed out in 5.2. (Not sure if this is true or not - just trying to illustrate the point)
Personally, I wouldn't feel qualified to write in-depth reviews of most packages. If I felt the need to publish something, I would state up front the limitations of my previous experience in that particular field ("I've not used a spreadsheet before, but Excel seems pretty cool!"). Letting the readers know about my background would help them understand how relevant my opinions/experiences will be to someone with their background.
Is this still going on?????? (Score:1)
TUCOWS themselves involved (Score:3)
If TUCOWS is truly unbiased, then they should either archive this page, and/or update it with the most current download statistics.
Also (and I apoligize if this was already addressed in one of the other SlashDot threads on this topic, this is the first I've read) Mandrake is distributed by MacMillan, and this may be a much more common practice in the book publishing industry. There are so many books published each year, that it is unusual to find reviews indicating a particular book is flawed. Except for works by authors who have previously had top ten bestsellers, it seems flawed books typically don't get reviewed. MacMillan may have assumed that if a review was going to be published it would be primarily complementary.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:3)
Doesn't this quote say it all about what this potentially damaging controversy has turned into? A large flameflest without much concrete evidence that has already consumed three Slashdot articles and probably generated thousands of dollars in banner counts.
The general consensus seems to be that seasoned Linux users aren't getting burnt by this controversy at all, because most would have enough experience to determine any biases by the reviewed before going out to buy a box set. Only the writers and the forums are burning their credibility with this one by continuing to milk all they can from this controversy.
Perhaps all reviewers should at least make the recommendation that first-timers to a new distribution purchase a GPL CD of a distribution before making that hefty box-set purchase so that all controversy can subside once and for all. I also advise that if you are seeking to purchase a box set, look up distribution-neutral reviews of the free enclosed commercial products, because they all nearly work the same regardless of your distribution. This practice will stamp out biased reviews once and for all.
I get free software all the time... (Score:3)
I happen to like Mandrake. It is my favorite Linux distribution. I just installed it on a laptop today, glitch-free. And I *bought* the copy I installed out of my own pocket because I wanted to have the actual boxed set, with the books, just once.
Usually, like any other person competent enough to write a Linux software or distribution review, I download what I need.
News has been slow this summer. But this slow?
- Robin
PS - the opinions in this post are mine alone. Slashdot and Andover/VA editors are individuals and do not always think alike.
One Big Stick: Free (Score:5)
If I had a big stick, I'd personally fwap a few Slashdot editors. They set up this wonderful tool called 'Slashback' which is probably the most favorably reviewed thing to come out of Slashdot since v1.0 of Slash was released and then they don't use it!
Note: This review of Slashdot editorial practices did not garner the author any free software from either Slashdot or Microsoft. The author still obtains all free software through traditional warez channels.
I have no idea.... (Score:1)
_joshua_
A good point (Score:2)
It's not like they are flying the reviewers to Redmond to help in writing a review.
This happens in the movie and book reviews too.
Even so, giving out a few $20 CD should not really influence someone's opinion much.
Would you believe a review that did not have any anything bad to say about a software package?
Re:I get free software all the time... (Score:3)
There is not much point in moderating up one of roblimo's posts in the hopes of getting favorable treatment through brown-nosing, as the staff generally don't moderate (just bitchslap). The staff also probably don't make a habit out of checking the moderation logs and rewarding people with buckets of karma.
So, Robin chimed into the discussion. It's nice to think that the staff actually reads some of stuff posted here.
Was it an "Interesting" comment? Um... no. As a matter of fact, that last sentence in another person's post probably would've resulted in a "Troll" moderation.
The comment offered no real insight into the issue at hand, yet the moderators still felt the need to jam not just their noses, but practically their entire heads into Robin's ass.
Step into the bathroom.
Look in the mirror.
You will see the face of a moron.
Eagerly awaiting my -1(Flamebait).
Mandrake was disappointed... (Score:2)
Seriously, though, is anyone really that influenced by some dead trees, some shiny plastic, nice pictures, and tech support? Maybe that would buy off Berst, but I'd like to think most people have slightly more integrity.
I think it's much more likely that any pro-Linux bias is due simply to the huge amount of hype and energy surrounding Linux. When you combine something new that just happens to be half-decent with the moral/technical/economical superiority zealotry in the Linux camp, you get powerful hype (don't get me wrong, a good chunk of that hype is deserved, either on the basis of what Linux is or what it can be).
It gets hard to be objective... (Score:3)
If you don't need to live off your reviews then you can say whatever you want, but a bad review burns bridges - at least with the more petty companies. Burn too many and you run out of people that will talk to you. This is independant of the truthfulness of your work.
I gained some appreciateion of Mike Moore's "The Awful Truth" after a 60 Minutes special. Apparently he's running out of channels that will play his show...
Michael Moore (Score:2)
But then, this is the channel that shows "The Mark Thomas Comedy Product", which once got the head of the Indonesian military to admit to torturing people on camera, amongst other things.
MTCP is the bizness.
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Pay for it! (Score:2)
This is an outrage! We shouldn't tolerate software reviewers getting product for free.
These software reviewers damn well better go to cheapbytes and pay the entire $1.99 for their *nix just like the rest of us 56kbps slobs! Otherwise it's just not fair!
Re:Mandrake was disappointed... (Score:1)
"Just don't do it!"
If you're interested... (Score:2)
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Re:With all due respect... (Score:1)
Hmmmm... I didn't see "sarcastic user" on the scale. Must be the new 6 category.
The missing point. (Score:2)
And tell me.. isn't the fact that it's free a very realistic feature of the software? I mean.. with Win2k pro + office2k pro running you well over a thousand bucks.....
Free = Good Review (Score:1)
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
NPS Internet Solutions, LLC
www.npsis.com [npsis.com]
Who cares? It's not like linux ain't free (Score:2)
Okay, I'm really tired of rehashed stories about linux making it to the front page. ESPECIALLY this one.
Linux is free, right? Pick your definition of free, since different distributions are a little different in their T&C than others. Still, in any case, you can get linux without paying for it. This is really handy if you want to evaluate it. Considering that you can get linux for nothing (Or, if you have a slow link, for a buck or two from cheapbytes [cheapbytes.com], anyone who relies on reviews is a unix poser anyway and I can't bring myself to care if they end up with a lame distribution. Run it yourself! Read /.! Get over it!
To recap: This is how it's done. It's how the record industry works, it's how the windows software market works (which is why Microsoft has its finger on so many publications) and it should come as no surprise that it's how linux is handled. It's called marketing. Move on.
I used to work at CompUSA (Score:1)
I have free software. Free ISPs. Everyone who works at a computer store knows the universal truth is that you talk to the vendor reps and they will give you all the free stuff you could ever want. Why? They want you to talk it up. They want you to sell their product. Free DSL, hardware, software, whatever! Just talk their product! It's not that hard to understand, and it's certainly not unethical or illegal to solicit advertising in this manner.
Magnwa
PC, Mags guilty (Score:1)
Three things to say about three atircals posted (Score:2)
Second: There is a dark side to open source... this aint it....
Third: Three posts? Are we doing a running dialog here?
I think this may have hit Slashdot where it hurts...
Slashdot may be doing a running dialog becouse they want to get out each responce and retort...
I guess Slashdot needs a "old forum" feature where folowups get the OLD forum instead if a new one and then the conversation can continue where it left off...
Anyway this ones a daily becouse Slashdot wants to folow all the comments outthere in medialand...
I do hope that Slashdot reserves itself a tad....
I mean maybe Meow could post a rant on the topic and get Slashdotted
I think not.....
With all due respect... (Score:3)
I mean, some guy complains that good reviews are given in exchange for free software. Problem is, that software was free to begin with! So the whole accusation doesn't make much sense.
ZDNet picks it up to be sensational. Go figure.
And then,
Man bites dog (Score:3)
What would be news is if Microsoft or Sun gave out Free copies to reviewers, instead of free ones.
Of course, if they did that, they might not get such favorable reviews. But then, it would be just that more newsworthy, wouldn't it?
Yow! (Score:2)
I'm so engrossed!
Could we get some more Princess Di coverage around here, too?! I heard she died!!!
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
free stuff (Score:1)
kick some CAD [cadfu.com]
The point? (Score:1)
Not just this industry (Score:2)
Linux Reviews... (Score:1)
Bah... (Score:1)
Payed off reviews? Mandrake is free? Why bitch and complain if something *IS* free and your not forced to use it, but it is an alterantive...
That may be a non-intellectual way to put it, but that sums it up completely.
Get a fucking life people (Score:2)
Or maybe they really are fixed. Who cares anyway? Only suits read software reviews in trade rags, and only idiots put any faith in them. At the end of the day, does it make one bit of difference to anyone? NO! The idiotic suits who base their purchasing decisions on reviews are always going to end up with crap, because, well, they're idiots. People who use Free software for various reasons, including but not limited to issues of freedom and quality, but don't spend their lives talking about it, aren't affected either. They use the same software in the same ways they always have. The only people who care are the self-proclaimed "Open Source Evangelists" who seem bound and determined to piss off everyone within earshot by harping on how much better Linux is than [whatever]. These people know nothing about technology, nor about business. They cannot write a line of code, nor can they run a successful enterprise. They are mindless drones caught up in the whirlpool of excitement that the magic word "Linux" generates today.
In a few years, when all this calms down, Linux will be just another option for business types, and it'll be the same software with the same license the geeks have always used. The loudmouthed advocates will have to spend their time on other things. God forbid, Slashdot might not even be profitable any more.
We don't care. Review is fixed, review isn't fixed. You want to know how something works? The only way you'll ever know is to evaluate it in the context of your specific application. No thinking human gives a rat's ass what any reviewer writes, or what motivates him or her to write it. Get a fucking life.