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Mattel Dislikes Being Embarrassed (UPDATED)

Posted by michael on Thu Mar 16, 2000 12:29 AM
from the DMCA-in-action dept.
A few weeks ago we ran Keep It Legal to Embarrass Big Companies , detailing Peacefire's decryption of X-Stop's blacklist. Then just a few days ago, we noted that CyberPatrol's encrypted list had also been cracked. Well, Mattel, the maker of CyberPatrol and a Big Company, decided it didn't like to be embarrassed -- so it's filing suit against the coders in Canada and Sweden. In addition to demanding the removal of the decryption utility, Mattel is also seeking the logfiles of the Swedish ISP that hosts the decryption utility, to identify everyone who has downloaded it to date. Update: 03/16 6:50 PM EDT by J : Today's news was filled with Mattel's PR lies about their suit. Analysis follows.

Update: 03/16 6:50 PM EDT by J : The problems started with the AP story (cited above). The decryption software posted by the activists was described as "a method for kids to deduce their parents' password and access [pornographic] Web sites."

This was the spin that Mattel's PR people put on the story. They surely didn't want the news media reporting that activists had posted software that exposes their secret, hidden blacklist to the light of day. That wouldn't sound so good - it might get people to ask "why are these blacklists encrypted at all?"

Instead, Mattel's PR decided to say that the decryption software allows kids to view pornography. Predictable - this is the same smear that's always dragged out - but the media swallowed it uncritically. (The AP story was repeated on cnet, and everywhere else that uses the AP feed.)

Even the normally-critical Declan McCullagh wrote a story for Wired whose opening sentence was corporate propaganda. "Toy-maker Mattel has sued two programmers who revealed how to circumvent its CyberPatrol blocking software." Thankfully, the rest of his article gave the full story.

Mattel is not upset about CPHack's minor feature of circumventing the program when installed. Peacefire has been distributing their own instructions to disable Cyber Patrol for months now, and hasn't been sued. (They're pretty simple instructions, too.)

Mattel is upset that people can see the flaws in their software which were previously hidden by encryption. They want to continue selling bad software and will use the full force of law to prevent you from learning how bad it is. Legal papers have already been served and the proceedings will presumably begin shortly. Stay tuned - and don't trust press releases.

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  • One small point , was Re:huh? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:30PM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:39PM
  • You dont get it. Legal is irrelevant. Threats work by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:51AM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:13PM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:20AM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:49PM
  • Re:Clarify one thing... by J. J. Ramsey (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:18PM
  • Down(loading) we go.. by Stormie (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:49PM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by Caine (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:59PM
  • Re:gun control by sjames (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:14AM
  • Re:Other headlines by sjames (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:55AM
  • Re:Thank God. by C.Lee (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:18AM
  • Mattel aren't very nice people by Matthew Kirkwood (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:48PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by kwalker (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:35AM
  • Re:Not Yahoo, AP by Joe Rumsey (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:33AM
  • Seeking block list by Improv (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:46PM
  • DeCSS is illegal in the US by acb (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:05PM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:47PM
  • Re:Add me to the log by aqua (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:07PM
  • the first thing i do... by jjoyce (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:44PM
  • Re:Clarify one thing... by zempf (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:20PM
  • Just what we need. by The Creator (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:08PM
  • Oh, please... by Glytch (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:23AM
  • Better yet, mirror the whole page! by JPelorat (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:11AM
  • Here's a Mirror by L-ViS (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:10PM
  • CyberPatrol block list by KlomDark (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:58AM
  • I can't get there... by KlomDark (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:04AM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by Art Tatum (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:31AM
  • Re:gun control by Art Tatum (Score:1) Sunday March 19 2000, @05:53PM
  • Re:gun control by Art Tatum (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:59PM
  • Class action anyone? by m0nkyman (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM
  • Re:Logs are useless. by aphr0 (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:46AM
  • Re:How is this free speech? by unicorn (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:03AM
  • How is this free speech? by unicorn (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:41AM
  • Re:Yet again... by BrotherPope (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:24AM
  • It's not down by SIGBUS (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:32AM
  • Everybody's Doin' It by Wench (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:39PM
  • The block list by Wench (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:43PM
  • Re:Real information by Kye (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:04PM
  • Re:If I only had the time... by slambo (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:26AM
  • Re:Yet again... by BJH (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:10PM
  • Re:This law does nothing for me as a consumer by PotatoHead (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:38PM
  • Y.A.M. by Red Leader. (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:31PM
  • I agree, Yahoo's report is... by MO! (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:58PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by Helge Hafting (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:58PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by Helge Hafting (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:51PM
  • Thanks, Mattel by Sloppy (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:14AM
  • Re:huh? by Jose (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:03PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by Jon_S (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:39PM
  • Re:Yet again... by Skapare (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM
  • mirror mirror ...... by Skapare (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:32PM
  • Re:isn't life strange? by Skapare (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:40PM
  • A less technical solution: pollute the namespace by beeblebrox (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:10PM
  • Re:gun control by fcw (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:36AM
  • Re:A Censor's Story by DMDx86 (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:57PM
  • Re:isn't life strange? by eddy (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:20AM
  • Re:Yet again... by QuMa (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:25AM
  • Re:Yet again... by Ancipital (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:03AM
  • Re:Bright kid by aphrael (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:51AM
  • Re:A Censor's Story by aphrael (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:54AM
  • Re:The World is America's Bitch by aphrael (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:58AM
  • Re:How is this free speech? by ChadN (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:55AM
  • Sounds to me like... by maan (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:08PM
  • Wack a mole? by DeathBunny (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:41AM
  • Re:This is insane by SEWilco (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:11AM
  • New mirror as of 16 Mar at... by LocalH (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:31AM
  • Re:It IS unethical to crack the code! by sysadmn (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:02AM
  • Re:I see no problem here by CricketGod (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:36PM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by PigAlien (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:50AM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by PigAlien (Score:1) Saturday March 18 2000, @06:11AM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by PigAlien (Score:1) Saturday March 18 2000, @06:15AM
  • Re:Real information by _Lint_ (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:23AM
  • Re:Everyone who has downloaded it by redbeard (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:14AM
  • Re:Oh, the irony. by DonkPunch (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:20PM
  • Re:No way Sweden's legal system agrees on this by flieghund (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:23AM
  • Re:How is this free speech? by rking (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:57AM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by JackAssPenguin (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:24AM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by shaum (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:38AM
  • Re:Block porn, allow the KKK by I R A Aggie (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:Can we simply boycott Mattel, etc? by I R A Aggie (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:16AM
  • Jurisdiction issues by akmed (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:43AM
  • Whoo Hoo! by X-Nc (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:04PM
  • Yet Another Software Mirror by Platinum Dragon (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:37PM
  • Re:mirrors! by Ventilator (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:43PM
  • Re:It IS unethical to crack the code! by musique (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:57AM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by musique (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:13AM
  • Putting on Abestos suit by Rasvar (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:44AM
  • Lack of truth from the start by mpe (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:03PM
  • Re:Yet again... by mpe (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:09PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by mpe (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:35PM
  • Re:huh? by mpe (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:55PM
  • Re:Add me to the log by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:03AM
  • Re:Clarify one thing... by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:06AM
  • Re:Microsystems Software IS Dead! by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:13AM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:21AM
  • Re:Class action anyone? by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:28AM
  • Re:How is this free speech? by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:04PM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:31AM
  • Re:Is Listing Libellous by mpe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:20AM
  • Re:Excellent Article by Nagumo (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:03AM
  • mirror, mirror on the server by prizog (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:03PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by JimDabell (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:44AM
  • f0ck 'em! by cr0sh (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:14AM
  • Re:Clarify one thing... by teepee (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:15PM
  • It IS unethical to crack the code! by Monte (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:14AM
  • Re:It IS unethical to crack the code! by Monte (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:17AM
  • Outrageous by alehmann (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:05PM
  • Super mirror by Betcour (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:54AM
  • Re:Host it in a net-friendly country? by Betcour (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:41PM
  • Excuse me, bright boy... by tilleyrw (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:41AM
  • Re:Yet again... by Mr_Ceebs (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:03PM
  • Re:Logs are useless. by Ekapshi (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:12AM
  • Just a quick thought.... by HerbieStone (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @04:44PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by cgadd (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:21PM
  • Re:Clarify one thing... by mbyte (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:27PM
  • Host it in a net-friendly country? by Silicon_Knight (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:46PM
  • http://plato.nebulanet.net:8080/~mabus/cp4/ by bnm (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:41AM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! Affirmative Action...! by Oriental_Hero (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:23AM
  • Re:This is insane (Yes, let's change it!) by c-A-d (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:49AM
  • Sue Mattel for taking the freedom away from you. by Merlin. (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:34AM
  • Question is, by Sygnus (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:44PM
  • Re:peacefire down? by madvax (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:59PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by Borealis (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:26AM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by Borealis (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:04AM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by Borealis (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:15AM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by Borealis (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @04:37AM
  • Re:Logs are useless. by kimihia (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:27PM
  • Everyone should download it. by pope nihil (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:48PM
  • Add me to the list by Tihstae (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:43PM
  • Re:Oh, the irony. by SEAL (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:00AM
  • Time for a banana republic by sleepycow (Score:1) Saturday March 18 2000, @03:19AM
  • Re:Yet Another Software Mirror by shub (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:57PM
  • Re:mirrors! by shub (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:48PM
  • Re:mirror, mirror on the server by shub (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:51PM
  • Another Mirror by jmorse (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:22AM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by fhwang (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:57AM
  • Gnutella! by mcrandello (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:54PM
  • Re:Copyright law by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:09AM
  • Re:Copyright law by lunatik17 (Score:1) Saturday March 18 2000, @11:15AM
  • Re:Bright kid by keytoe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:17PM
  • Re:huh? by gargle (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:42PM
  • Re:huh? by gargle (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:43PM
  • Re:Add me to the log by Steeltoe (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:23AM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by DocDavid (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:40PM
  • Re:Real information by DocDavid (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:47PM
  • Re:I agree, Yahoo's report is... by DocDavid (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:50PM
  • Re:This law does nothing for me as a consumer by piotrr (Score:1) Monday March 20 2000, @12:45AM
  • Re:No way Sweden's legal system agrees on this by piotrr (Score:1) Monday March 20 2000, @03:48AM
  • Re:Hmmm... by ASM (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:46PM
  • Don't use mirrors! by RudeSka (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:16PM
  • I see their point... sort of. by zeck (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:38PM
  • privacy by zeck (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:44PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by zeck (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:49PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by zeck (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:00PM
  • Re:Real information by Cyberdyne (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:42AM
  • Re:gun control by bbchops (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:19AM
  • Re:huh? by mrfunnypants (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:26PM
  • BOYCOTT MATTEL by alizard (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:39AM
  • Libel by Rand Race (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:55AM
  • Can we simply boycott Mattel, etc? by rombouts (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:35AM
  • Re:peacefire down? by karmatrip (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:57PM
  • Does Mattel even have the right? by kjeldar (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:39PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by LMacG (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:55AM
  • Re:huh? by Tarquin (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:36PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by Tarquin (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:41PM
  • Re:mirror, mirror on the server by blj8 (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:02PM
  • Re:mirror, mirror on the server by blj8 (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:38PM
  • The list IS their product... by Uberminky (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:19PM
  • How is decryption reverse engineering? by afreyt (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @11:46AM
  • Re:mirrors! by Zomart9th (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:24AM
  • Re:Mirrors of the disputed content. by fluch (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:40PM
  • Re:Mirrors of the disputed content. by fluch (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:08PM
  • Why not post anonymously on usenet? by Mekanix (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:53PM
  • another strategy... by small_dick (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:42PM
  • "Corporate Privacy" by mopic (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:41PM
  • Hi. Mattel by Bosplaya (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:55PM
  • Re:mirrors! by haus (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:10AM
  • Re:How is this free speech? by rgmoore (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @02:16PM
  • Got cp4? by krogoth (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:03AM
  • Copyright law by luckykaa (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:36PM
  • Re:Copyright law by luckykaa (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:42AM
  • Here's a thought... by zyqqh (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:48PM
  • Gee, Wow, Golly Wiz Beaver by Claude Debussy (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:13PM
  • Everyone download! by jailbrekr2 (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:28PM
  • Mushrooms by pe1rxq (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:28PM
  • Strawman by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:56AM
  • DeCSS decision by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:13AM
  • Libel factors by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @12:07PM
  • backwards by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @02:42PM
  • You owe me! by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:11AM
  • You forgot their suit against me. by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:20AM
  • My point exactly! by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:34AM
  • Mattel's 800# by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:30PM
  • tortious interference by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:29PM
  • frivolous law suit budget by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:29PM
  • Re:A SLAPP case? by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @02:59AM
  • Mattel has some competent programmers by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:37PM
  • No suprise to me! by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:04PM
  • Disinformation is their practice! by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:44PM
  • Bright kid by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:11PM
  • What about the DCMA? by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:47PM
  • Microsystems Software IS Dead! by www.sorehands.com (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:53PM
  • Like the V-Chip before it...... by Sasquach (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:11AM
  • This is insane by flagrass (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:37PM
  • web filtering - fit for purpose. by mungewell (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:28PM
  • peacefire down? by SonOfGates (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:37PM
  • Re:Seeking block list by John Hurliman (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:14AM
  • Re:I see no problem here by djrogers (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:33PM
  • Re:Real information by Ig0r (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @11:04AM
  • /me grabs hold of the obivous by AhrT WrrX (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:19PM
  • Re:This law does nothing for me as a consumer by AhrT WrrX (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:54PM
  • Re:It IS unethical to crack the code! by Irregular Duck (Score:1) Friday March 17 2000, @10:49AM
  • Is Listing Libellous by Dhericean (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:40AM
  • [CANADA] by jailbreakist (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:07AM
  • This is absurd by Trollberito (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:35PM
  • Of course.... by Mathonwy (Score:1) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:55PM
  • Re:This is insane (Yes, let's change it!) by toph42 (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:43AM
  • Re:gun control by MarkAustin (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:09AM
  • Re:mirrors! by grut (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:19AM
  • Blocking Software Blocking my page? by RussL (Score:1) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:10PM
  • Re:Does Mattel even have the right? by Staredown (Score:1) Monday March 20 2000, @08:51AM
  • cyber patrol blocking cphack? by frop (Score:1) Tuesday March 21 2000, @01:51PM
  • Supremacist, dogmatic, institutional predators by Rev_Terry_S (Score:1) Saturday March 25 2000, @12:31PM
  • What is porn? Why CyberNot must be public info by Rev_Terry_S (Score:1) Saturday March 25 2000, @01:02PM
  • No way Sweden's legal system agrees on this by Caine (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:37PM
  • Other headlines by sjames (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:40AM
  • Re:You owe me! by sjames (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @11:14AM
  • Not Yahoo, AP by Joe Rumsey (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM
  • Re:What about the DCMA? by acb (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:37PM
  • Re:Yet again... by acb (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:05PM
  • Re:Super mirror by acb (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:30PM
  • My Mirror by dew (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:20AM
  • Politics and law by N8F8 (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:22AM
  • Re:Let Mattel know what you think... by Jeffrey Baker (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:48PM
  • Mirrors of the disputed content. by Apuleius (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:03PM
  • Re:Everyone who has downloaded it by waldoj (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:56AM
  • Re:Add me to the log by waldoj (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @08:03AM
  • Re:mirrors! by waldoj (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:11AM
  • If I only had the time... by UncleRoger (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:28PM
  • cp4break.zip mirrored by Kris_J (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:11PM
  • Re:A Censor's Story by Kris_J (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:15PM
  • Re:This law does nothing for me as a consumer by Kris_J (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:34PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by Kris_J (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:24PM
  • Here's my mirror of all this, and more... by Pig Hogger (Score:2) Sunday March 19 2000, @07:16AM
  • Re:Mattel???????? by ralphclark (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @11:49AM
  • Re:A Censor's Story by ralphclark (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @11:54AM
  • Re:The block list by BJH (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:26PM
  • Re:I see their point... sort of. by jms (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:35AM
  • Picking a nit ... by FreeUser (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @11:54AM
  • Re:The World is America's Bitch by FreeUser (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:37PM
  • Re:Real information by redhog (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:22PM
  • Re:Logs are useless. by Bryan Andersen (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:05PM
  • Re:Real information by Bryan Andersen (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:12PM
  • Mirrored. by arcade (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:55PM
  • Re:Mirrors of the disputed content. by arcade (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:08AM
  • Re:Don't use mirrors! by arcade (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:14AM
  • Re:Mirrors of the disputed content. by QuMa (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:21AM
  • Re:Add me to the log by warpeightbot (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:47PM
  • Re:How is this free speech? by WNight (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:23PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by WNight (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:30PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by WNight (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @12:50PM
  • Mattel???????? by delmoi (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM
  • Re:Bright kid by powerlord (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:Bright kid by 0xdeadbeef (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @04:24AM
  • Excellent Article by sbeitzel (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:30AM
  • huh? by Haven (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:38PM
  • Re:Real information by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @11:26PM
  • Re:Putting on Abestos suit by gorilla (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:31AM
  • Re:Picking a nit ... by Malcontent (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:53PM
  • Re:I see no problem here by DaveHowe (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @03:09AM
  • Re:I see no problem here by cgadd (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:55PM
  • Re:Real information by cgadd (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:49PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by goldmeer (Score:2) Friday March 17 2000, @06:00PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by goldmeer (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:52AM
  • Re:Logs are useless. by goldmeer (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @06:36AM
  • We all know that by Lew Pitcher (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:56AM
  • Re:Real information by Cramer (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @01:36PM
  • just block the crack by eries (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:59PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by Ticker (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:01PM
  • Re:Mirrors of the disputed content. by shub (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:56PM
  • A Censor's Story by harhar (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:20AM
  • Re:Mattel???????? by Jim Tyre (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:33PM
  • LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by yuriwho (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:47PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by B'Trey (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @02:25AM
  • A SLAPP case? by Animats (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @09:15PM
  • Re:Warning: Disinformation! by Anomalous Canard (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @05:56AM
  • Re:It IS unethical to crack the code! by Anomalous Canard (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:08AM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by Anomalous Canard (Score:2) Thursday March 16 2000, @07:20AM
  • Re:LawSuit-Happy Americans try to police the world by Anomalous Canard (Score:2) Friday March 17 2000, @06:06AM
  • Clarify one thing... by MysticOne (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM
  • Short code please by GeHa (Score:2) Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:44PM
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 16 2000, @01:05AM (#1199158)

    Lately I have developed my own personal theory as to why american compagnies (and their government) do things like this: They are not used to dealing directly with foreigners.

    This may sound strange, but I actually believe this to be the case. Even though the US society is probably the most diversified one you can think of, the US population appears to be sadly lacking when it comes to understanding and accepting different cultural ways of doing things.

    • Recently I saw a program on Discovery, where NASA had arranged 'cultural exchange' meetings, so that their engineers, who will work on the International Space Station, could learn the fine points in socializing with foreigners. Apparently the Japanese/American combination is an especially difficult one, but Eastern Europe/American is problematic as well. Expect a russian to ask how much you earn in a year during casual conversation...
    • 5 years ago McDonalds [mcdonalds.com] sued a man here in Denmark for calling himself and his tiny sausage shop for McAllan (he had been a wiskey collector for decades). Ultimately the danish supreme court made a ruling [www.ipb.dk] (in Danish) in favoir of McAllan, which can be interpreted as 'you must be kidding?'. It should be noted that the danish media were unanimously on the side of McAllan.
    • Whenever an american megacorp buys a danish compagny, they almost always make headlines when they try and dictate new employee policies without first discussing the new rules with the people on the floor. 'From today smoking will only take place outside the buildings.' is definitely not the danish way of approaching a sensitive problem. Nor is asking for what is considered sensitive personal data, like health or economich status, during job interviews.
    I could go on, but you get the picture. Basically 'the american way' is often the source for much headshaking and/or laughter over here I am sad to say. I mean, how would you react if you were told that a society existed where 90.000 children were killed or injured by gunshots each year, and where major law firms waste huge amounts of energy on cataloguing all faults in *all* the pavements in New York, so they can later document negligence on the part of The City of New York when people trip over their own feet?

    The most amusing part about the Mattel case is, that the information they are trying to get hold of from the Swedish ISP probably doesn't even exist, and even if it did, it wouldn't help much. I have downloaded the CPHack code together with everyone else and their mother, and I cannot be traced. When asked my ISP has responded in their FAQ that they don't even keep logs of what contents which person download, neither through their dialup connection, nor from webpages they host. This kind of data is considered covered by the danish laws of the right to personal privacy. If a (danish) court ruled that *I* personally probably was doing something illegal, then *I* could be the subject of surveillance when online. Danish ISPs as a rule only log just enough information to be able to bill the right persons, that is all. I believe this to be the case in Sweden too, because they are even more restrictive when it comes to public access to 'sensitive' personal information. So, Mattel, you will at best loose track of me at a specific dial-in pool at one of the largest ISPs in Denmark. Good luck!

    So now I am waiting for something like the DeCSS case to surface here in Denmark. I am in contact with a journalist of a small but very influential newspaper, and I have talked about these issues with him. He nearly keeled over when I explained the background for the DeCSS brouhaha in Norway. He didn't think they would have been able to get away with that here in Denmark or even in Norway for that matter, but apparently MPAA was able to put a lot of pressure on some insecure public officials up there. He has assured me that a 'Danish police abides US Court ruling' type headline would definitely be interesing, though a particular case should be examined carefully before going to press, of course. Will be interesting to see the outcome of the DeCSS case.

    And now to something completely different: Fuck!

    Would some kind sould please explain to us poor ignorant non-native english speakers why this word is so bad? For some reason americans tend to go ballistic when this word is used. Yes, it is a 'naughty' one, but this is the real world, remember? If I used something similar in danish when communicating, people would at most consider me immature and probably just ignore me.

  • a sack of lawyers (Score:3)

    by xeno (2667) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:02PM (#1199159)
    Yet another company flounders about, trying to bludgeon people into submission by hitting them with a sack of lawyers. Are Sweden and Canada within US court jurisdiction? Exposing what a tool does can't possibly be illegal (but exposing how it does it, or providing a tool to defeat it might be, if the hero/perps are within US jurisdiction.) How utterly silly. If Mattel had just shut up and wiped the egg off their faces, they would see little or no real damage to their revinue stream. Instead, they make a big deal out of it, make a futile attempt to squelch the exposure, and end up with a situation where several orders of magnitude more people download the code, tell their friends about it, and generally make it publicly known that Cyberpatrol and their ilk are ineffective at best, and an affront to American civil liberties -- potentially tanking the revinue stream. How is it that such a big organization can't muster the collective brain cells and foresight to see beyond the tip of their corporate nose?

    As a side note, do the authors *want* the code mirrored, or just distributed directly? I'll have to look again, but I didn't see a license in the code. Obviously the code and essay make it clear that it's a protest on principle, but it'd be nice to know the desired propogation.

    J
  • Need for Freenet (Score:3)

    by Ray Dassen (3291) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @10:10PM (#1199160) Homepage
    Some of the time, I think projects like Freenet [sourceforge.net] are only for the extreme paranoid. (The Freenet technology would be a great way to distribute this type of information in a way that defeats attempts at censorship)

    The rest of the time I read about Echelon, big company bully tactics, the great firewall of China and censoring Fahrenheit 451 and start to wonder if the paranoid aren't actually a cabal that tries to look ridiculous in order for us "normal" people not to notice that they're the only ones seeing the true situation.

  • Add me to the log (Score:3)

    by Kris_J (10111) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:49PM (#1199161) Homepage Journal
    Microsystems also asked the judge to order the Swedish Internet company where the bypass utility is published to turn over records identifying everyone who visited the Web site or downloaded the program.
    Knee-Jerk response: I went and downloaded the application straight away. What the hell do they think they're going to do with the logs? Should I expect a Mattel-In-Black to arrive at my front door in the early hours?

    The hideous truth is that we're exactly the sorts of people that censorware advocates are trying to protect the children from - intelligent, progressive, think-for-ourselves - we're a major risk to the estabished order.

    I think that web sites against censorware should find a way to detect a censorware product and display a banner, instead of the requested page, indicating that the site does not support censorware and the website can not be viewed if you're using a censorware filter. Then perhaps parents may be forced to (re)consider the product.

  • Hmmm... (Score:3)

    by BJH (11355) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:13PM (#1199162)

    Personally, I think they want the logs so that they can add the list of sites involved to those blocked by their software. Then they can say that they're doing it to prevent kids from downloading this "dangerous" piece of "contraband".
  • by FreeUser (11483) on Thursday March 16 2000, @06:32AM (#1199163) Homepage
    I think that web sites against censorware should find a way to detect a censorware product and display a banner, instead of the requested page, indicating that the site does not support censorware and the website can not be viewed if you're using a censorware filter.

    This is an excellent suggestion for a partial technical solution to a technical / political problem!

    Assuming censorware can be identified by an http daemon, getting a large percentage of web maintainers to "self-block" their content from users of censorware could have a very interestin impact. Imagine an adults ire when they discover an ever growing number of legitimate sites they want to access have refused to deliver their content because of the censorware they installed on their children's behalf. Instead they get a banner berating them for using the product (perhaps with relevant links to anti-censorware sites which they discover to their dismay are censored!). Although it is unrealistic to expect
    sites like Yahoo (aptly named, c.f. "yahoos" in Gulliver's Travels) and Google to join in, these big sites rely in no small part on the smaller, personal, and useful sites many of us maintain for our respective comminities. By "freezing out" the censorware users we become not only a large voice against such products, but an evergrowing incentive for people to drop the use of the offending filters.

    Alternatively, for those who find cutting off censorware users entirely to be too draconian, one could set up a banner page the censorware user is forced to confront and (at least the first time) read, before continuing to the actual content. Idaelly such a banner page would include links to anti-censorware site and reputable news sites documenting their abuses. After having seen the message once they would of course click through quickly without reading, but that doesn't matter for two reasons: (1) They will have read the message at least once and (2) the message will be reiterated on a subliminal level every time they see such a banner, even if they don't read it explicitly. For the same reason you see Coke and Nike logos plastered everywhere, seeing educational, anti-censorware logos everywhere will have an effect.

    Finally, if the censorware products censore a growing number of legitimate sites for displaying such a page and/or logo, this will merely add even fuel to the argument that using such software is much more dangerous to the children one is trying to protect than the so-called harmful material one is trying to protect them against, both by cutting them off from important resources and education materials and because of the distortion its politically/economically motivated censorship has on the public discourse and the ability of its customers to form their own opinions in an informed manner.

    In short, I like your idea very much. While not a panacea, it provides the possibility for confronting censorware users with the tradeoff they have made in a very "in-your face" way. The more sites to take this stance, the more they would either be confronted with the cold facts of the choice they have made, or the less usable the net becomes to them because of the software they are using. Either would tend to put people off form continuing its use, which is a net positive for the net as a whole.

    If any apache/html gurus out there could toss together a quick 'howto' to accomplish this I would be happy to support it at our site. Alas, I am too buried with work right now to dig into this and impliment it right now myself (call me lazy if you will, though swamped and exhausted would be closer to the truth).
  • Yet again... (Score:3)

    by iCEBaLM (34905) <(icebalm) (at) (icebalm.com)> on Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:42PM (#1199164)
    Yet again companies are trying to get US law enforced on other soveriegn nations. This parallels the ICraveTV and DeCSS fiascos, not to mention brings up the legality of "click wrap" licenses.

    Obviously the US court has no jurisdiction, but will render a verdict anyways. I just have to wonder how US citizens like their tax payer money being spent on operating courts whose judgement has no relevance? This would piss me off to no end if I were american.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • by reptilian (75755) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:46PM (#1199165)
    Aren't databases copyrightable? If they are, breaking this encryption is illegal under the DMCA, since the information encrypted is copyrighted. If it's not, well, there's nothing to worry about.


    Man's unique agony as a species consists in his perpetual conflict between the desire to stand out and the need to blend in.

  • by My Third Account (78496) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:38PM (#1199166)
    It would be a herculean effort to track down everyone who downloaded it based on IP addresses and times.

    Not to mention a GROSS misuse of logs, and a GROSS disregard for privacy.

    You'd think they just downloaded crack cocaine or something, you can't just track down people because you think they downloaded something YOU DON'T LIKE.
  • by Dirtside (91468) on Thursday March 16 2000, @11:12AM (#1199167) Homepage Journal
    Others have posted this as well, but none quite properly, so I will again:
    And the common "their encryption sucks, it's their fault" argument is trash. If someone breaks into your house because they could smash down your door, is it your fault that you didn't have steel bars? It's a question of whether or not reverse engineering like this is legal, not a "you suck, get better" situation.

    Your analogy is false. Look at it this way. If I buy a safe, and fill it with secret documents, and then SELL YOU THE SAFE without giving you a key or the combination, how can I logically complain if you break into the safe? Manipulating data that you have legally acquired is not even CLOSE to being the same thing as breaking and entering, as you would have us believe. This is a common argument when these things come up, and it is always false.

  • Re:Yet again... (Score:4)

    by aqua (3874) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:12PM (#1199168)
    We've talked about this before, but I think it's time to get serious about writing a canopener to extract files from InstallShield and similar SEA utilities without displaying, reading or parsing the license. It can't be that hard, and it would kill off the click-wrap license BS completely.

    Hence, "by clicking OK you agree" would fall back to "by using this software you agree," and the latter's perfectly fine, since plenty of reverse engineering can be done without ever running a piece of software.

  • by FreeUser (11483) on Thursday March 16 2000, @06:57AM (#1199169) Homepage
    DCMA is AFIK a USA thing... We can do anything we want in whatever country we live in, provided we don't break the law where we live.

    Tell that to the US courts who feel no compunction whatsoever is handing down injunctions against people in other countries for activities which, obviously to any casual observer, do not concern the aforementioned courts in the least (c.f. DeCSS, etoy.com).

    Tell that to the US special agents who routinely kidnap people abroad, bringing them over to the United States to stand trial under US laws, often for activities or behavior which was committed outside of the US and therefor outside of US jurisdiction.

    Tell that to the US Army, which on more than one occasion has invaded a country for violation of US Law (remember Panama and Noriega?), completely at odds with both international law and international norms.

    Tell that to the IMF, the World Bank, and the WTO, who can coerce with extreme economic threats any government (including, ironically, the US) legislation of nearly any kind under the argument that trade is "unfairly restricted" otherwise. Definitions are deliberately vague, changing to fit the political agenda of the moment.

    Most of all, tell that to the Politicians whose hubris in ordering such actions threatens to destroy not just the external victims of their intoxication with power, but the US itself.

    Not that they'll listen. After all, if they won't even listen to their own people (and from personal experience I can assure you they don't), they certainly won't listen to a bunch of durn' pinko commie bedwettin' ferrener's anyway. Still, the more voices added to the chorus, the more difficulty they'll have in ignoring it, over time.

    Much more importantly, tell your governments to start standing up to the US and stop being our lapdogs! After all, if we lose the battle to stop and reverse the hemorrage of civil liberties here, it would be nice to have somewhere to escape to, in order to fight again another day. If your governments continue to behave as an extention of our own, this option won't exist and the downward spiral and attrition of civil rights and liberties may well reach an irreversable point.
  • Re:The block list (Score:4)

    by eddy (18759) on Thursday March 16 2000, @01:13AM (#1199170) Homepage Journal
    You will have to get one of the freely available test versions of Cyber Patrol (try www.cyberpatrol.com) and install it. The package includes an old list, so you'll have to run the 'update CyberNOT' procedure to get the latest. After that, you can save it away and uninstall CP, keeping the 'cyber.not' file.
  • by Bald Wookie (18771) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:37PM (#1199171)
    Simple solution for the log files... Encrypt them. Give Mattel a taste of their own medicine.

    I would like to suggest ROT-13 as an appropriate method. That's probably enough to keep them busy for years.

    -BW
  • by Black Parrot (19622) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:11PM (#1199172)
    > Please keep the source code small on these decoders people; the court might wants to save on paper when printing it as "exhibit A" for our attention.

    Yeah, and it needs to fit on a T-shirt, too!

    --
  • We deserve this. (Score:4)

    by Malcontent (40834) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:01PM (#1199173)
    I was talking with my wife earlier today about issues like DeCSS and DMCA adn she was shocked that she did not know any of this stuff was going on. I said that I did not expect her and other non-geek population at large to be very informed about such a narrow (albeit important) topic. She then said then we get just what we deserve. She suggested htat we email everybody we know and educate them about these topics. Having thought about this for a while I agree with her. We tend to look down on the "ordinary" american and dismiss them but as long as we don't get them involved we are powerless. I suppose it would help if the geek community was a little more political too but we seem all too happy to bury our noses in our monitors and pretend this is all going to get better on it's own.

    Step 1. Get organized
    Step 2. Recruit your neighbor.
    Step 3. Get involved

    Or else forget about it.
  • download it (Score:4)

    by MrP- (45616) <rob@elit[ ]p.net ['emr' in gap]> on Wednesday March 15 2000, @09:40PM (#1199174) Homepage
    they probably will be checking the logs for who downloads the win32 executable, so even if you are on linux or another os, download

    http://hem.passagen.se/eddy1 /reveng/cp4/bin/cphack.exe [passagen.se]

    even if you just delete it right after

    #----------------------------
    $mrp=~s/mrp/elite god/g;
  • by TMB (70166) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:33PM (#1199175)
    Why does EVERY Net Censoring product out there have encrypted software lists?

    Because there's a sizable (if misguided) market for censorware, there are quite a few companies vying for that market all of whom consider their prime asset to be their blocked site list, and if there were a plain text copy of one company's list, it would be very easy for every other censorware company to add every site in that list to their own, this negating the original company's advantage.

    Now why a company wouldn't think that a list with 75% false positives (assuming that's typical - it might or might not be) isn't considered a liability is very interesting: They get less shit for a false positive than for a false negative. Virtually all censorware products have ways of overriding both. So imagine the two scenarios:

    1. Child tries to visit www.perfectlyinnocentsite.com and gets unfairly blocked. They call Parent over, who overrides it. What are the chances that Parent complains to Censorware Company? Pretty low.
    2. Child tries to visit www.hardcorepornsexandhatespeech.com and is not blocked. Parent happens to wander by, sees material which they think ought to be blocked, and goes ballistic. Of course they add it to a blocked list, but now what are the chances that they complain to Censorware Company? Much much higher

    Because of this, censorware companies feel that the larger list they have, the better, no matter where that list comes from. And therefore they try to protect their list from being stolen by encrypting it. Badly.

    So that's why. I know it doesn't make any sense, but that's the rationale.

    [TMB]

  • by Syn.Terra (96398) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:44PM (#1199176) Homepage Journal

    Look at this opening statement:

    A company that makes popular software to block children from pornographic Internet sites filed an unusual lawsuit late Wednesday against two computer experts who developed a method for kids to deduce their parents' password and access those Web sites.

    Anyone else notice the disinformation in this? The censorware doesn't just block children, it blocks everyone. They're making it sound like the people who cracked the encryption are promoting children seeing porn instead of promoting the anti-censorship movement. Way to keep neutral, Yahoo.

    But then see this:

    Microsystems also asked the judge to order the Swedish Internet company where the bypass utility is published to turn over records identifying everyone who visited the Web site or downloaded the program.

    Um, why? The only reason I can possibly think of, which is pretty paranoid, is that Microsystems plans on using this as data, to say "hey, look how many people can now see porn whenever they want to, instead of letting us decide what is decent for them!" If you want to get really paranoid, you can say Microsystems wants to track who downloaded it and say "sorry, you've gotta get rid of that program", but I'm not sure how far you can trace IP addresses...

    And the common "their encryption sucks, it's their fault" argument is trash. If someone breaks into your house because they could smash down your door, is it your fault that you didn't have steel bars? It's a question of whether or not reverse engineering like this is legal, not a "you suck, get better" situation.


    ------------
  • Real information (Score:4)

    by |deity| (102693) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:02PM (#1199177) Homepage
    And the common "their encryption sucks, it's their fault" argument is trash. If someone breaks into your house because they could smash down your door, is it your fault that you didn't have steel bars? It's a question of whether or not reverse engineering like this is legal, not a "you suck, get better" situation.

    What has happened here is that someone did an expert(at least compared to the people that did the programming) analysis of a cryptographic aproach. Something that is specifically allowed under US law.

    Save your breaking and entering analogies for piracy. This was an act of free speech consumers have a right to know what they are paying for. The list of blocked sites should not be encrypted with anything more powerfull then a simple shift cipher to keep children from looking at the list in a text browser. The person that bought the program has the *RIGHT* to know what sites are being blocked.

    This encryption scheme is not a method to stop piracy or digital theft. It has one reason for existance, which is to keep people from knowing what sites and what rules are used to block sites. Reverse engineering is completely legal. Therefor if they don't want to see their precious list fall into the wrong hands they should use a decent encryption algorithm.

  • Re:mirrors! (Score:4)

    by karmatrip (114613) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @07:56PM (#1199178) Homepage
    Already done. [myip.org]
  • Re:peacefire down? (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM (#1199179)
    A couple of points that may be relevant (I'm Matthew Skala, one of the defendants, but this information should speak for itself):

    1. We didn't post the Cyber Patrol block list. We posted a utility that can cryptographically attack the block list. In order to read the decrypted block list, a user would have to already have a copy of Cyber Patrol, which they can't get from us. Our posting does not contain material from Cyber Patrol, except for a few lines of hex dump and assembly code embedded in the essay we wrote explaining the break.

    2. Although we sympathise with Peacefire and think they are fine people, we are not Peacefire. Peacefire deserves credit and blame for many things, but not for this particular project. We did this independently of them. It wasn't a Peacefire project.
  • by simpleguy (5686) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:27PM (#1199180) Homepage
    I was cusious and downloaded a tool to decrypt blockfiles from peacefire. I was able to decrypt a 4 mb blocklist which resulted in a >10mb plaintext file full of URLS.

    Just for the fun, I tried grep'ping for the most known porn site and they were all there.

    Strangely enough, I looked for known URLS of the Ku Kluxx Klan, none showed up.

    Yeah! Porn is bad, kids should not know about sex!
    Lets inculcate them racism and hate instead.

  • I just read this, and am enraged at the very thought of this litigation. I am a parent, and thought for a while about using some of this software because my time to surf with my kids is limited. I never did it though because it goes against everything that I believe about parenting. Those that hide things from their kids only ensure that their kids will hear it from somebody else, and that their values are not the same. Why even go there? Any smart parent will deal with the issue and give their kids the support that they need to make smart decisions. The software is nothing more than a cop out.

    Given that I would not use this sort of software, I still have to say that parents that do choose this (lazy!) path have a clear right to understand what it is they are getting for their money. How else are they going to know? Type in a bunch of URLs and see if they are blocked? Maybe if they typed in a lot of them they would understand what was being done. Heck if they thought about it for a while, they probably could just deduce the rule sets based on the content of the blocked sites! Would this then be reverse engineering? I hardly see that as being illegal. I think the DMCA only serves to empower the corporations with the ability to keep their customers stupid. The chances of any group of parents doing this is almost none. Who's interest is best represented here? Not mine!

    This decryption is a service to me and reinforces my decision not to use this type of software. There are many ways around this sort of thing anyway. Some of the easier ones that I can think of are easily within the abilities of smart children that I know. Information like this flies through the kid network faster than you think. If one of them really wants to know, I don't think that this sort of software will stop them for long. Just one kid wanting to be popular or cool with a printer could print the content, and the methods of getting it and show it off at school. Give that a few weeks and pretty soon almost all of them who want to see will. Simple. The only ones that can have an effect on this are the parents.

    We deserve the right of full-disclosure on any technology that can have this much impact on our lives. How will this happen if it can't be verified. Trust our goverment to handle it? Not bloody likely.

    Who can we write to? I am beginning to realize that this is going to be a long battle. Fight it or become just another dumb computer USER.

  • Oh, the irony. (Score:5)

    by Black Parrot (19622) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:05PM (#1199182)
    If Mattel is so keen on keeping children ignorant about their sexual destiny, why does their famous doll scale up to have a Vegas showgirl's legs and doubly implanted breasts? And a wardrobe to show it.

    That's the drill, Mattel! Teach little girls to want to grow up to be sex objects, but make sure they don't know what the "sex" part is about until they do grow up.

    --
  • by yuriwho (103805) on Wednesday March 15 2000, @08:04PM (#1199183)
    If your child is bright enough to find the crack to cyber patrol on the web, download/run it, and beat your pathetic attempt at stopping that child from seeing whats really out there then you have little to worry about. You kid is smart, able to think for themself, aware of political censorship (you) and somewhat rebellious. All are admirable qualities!!

    Congratulate your child for seeing through your silly attempt, and having graduated to the level of being able to view the real world for themselves.
    Your kid will trust you so much more when you trust them. (vice versa works too)
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