MS Dirty Pool Against AOL? 200
Hobbes_ sent us an amusing little story that talks about some MS Employee forging some email to some guy trying to
raise heat against AOL. Just read the article, its more than just a little bizarre.
"Most people would like to be delivered from temptation but would like it to keep in touch." -- Robert Orben
news.com, techweb.com, zdnet.com (Score:1)
BTW, it is kind of ironic since you are an Anonymous Coward....
Re:Disgruntled Employee... (Score:2)
Re:AOL and buffer overflow.. (Score:1)
Hmmm. If the buffer overflow actually exists, *and* Microsoft is sure of that, they'd better be able to prove it -- in other words, document and release code to both AOL and a forum such as BugTraq. A history of such alleged holes and copies of the relevant binaries and such forwarded to an independent group should work...
If they cannot substantiate the existence of such, then this would seem to be either a bizarre game of chicken, or it would seem that at the very least an apology is in order -- possibly more, for laying very specific and public charges on AOL's products.
In the meantime, that has little bearing on whether it's legal for AOL to block other services from using their messaging system, security hole or no.
More recently than that, even. (Score:1)
Unfortunately, I don't have a link available. Anyone?
Re:Misunderstanding (Score:1)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
Re:Nah. Only \.ers think this. NT has advantages (Score:1)
If you think that a monopoly running everything is good
If you think that open standard retard/prevent inovation...
You are on another planet, bucko.
Re:NO. Your a moron (Score:2)
-Jack Bryar
Perhaps he should begin his development of a Linux-compatible grammar checker as well.
Re:Yes, but not for these reasons (Score:2)
Up until a month ago our company webserver ran NT Server 4 with IIS 4, and it required daily reboots. A month ago we installed Debian+Apache, and it's been up, unaided, ever since.
I'll agree that some people here seriously exaggerate the instabilities of NT, but Linux actually is the more reliable OS for mission critical servers.
Re:Support for breaking down a proprietary system (Score:1)
How do you track a Yahoo mail message? (Score:1)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
You prefer IE over Netscape? There are so many little things about IE that just annoy the hell out of me... one being that it hangs randomly. But honestly though, I'm not calling pro-MS people MS Gimps. I use NT at work. Hell I use NT to write papers at school if necessary and surf the web. However, when I see a message posting on some usenet group with an MSN email address or a hotmail anonymous address, it makes me wonder. Especially when they're making blatently false or misleading statements.
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
Sorry, I'm not sure about the exact quote but that is a close aproximation.
Re:John Markoff (Score:3)
Re:John Markoff (Score:1)
This article says that it was traced to a Microsoft Proxy. Whether or not this is a corporate server or not is not said, so there is room for doubt. Although I can assume that is is a corporate proxy server rather than an MSN proxy server.
The sender's IP is in the headers. (Score:1)
Hard to think that an MS employee (or anyone with any computer knowledge) wouldn't have thought about this though. Hmmmm, oh well....
Andrew
Re:Support for breaking down a proprietary system (Score:1)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
I haven't had IE 4.0 hang randomly on me, but I can crash communicator 4.61 and earlier at will, at least on my nt box.
Open 1 page.
Open a second page in a second window.
Reload both pages simultaneously.
Wait for Dr. Watson...
-Richard.
Re:AOL not promoting ICQ.... (Score:1)
I know that the most powerful force in the universe is entropy, and ICQ will eventually go to crap, but right now, it's a more than adequate messaging system with no advertisements and works most of the time.
I just hope they all leave it alone.
Russ
Re:AOL not promoting ICQ.... (Score:1)
the main communication to the server is UDP (udp=? undenyably drops packets)
client to client communication goes directly to the clients first in all official clients (as far as i can tell), theres no way to specify a specific user is behind a firewall, and can't handle connecting to her(gender neutral) directly. I believe the clients may try to connect directly every time a message is sent, rather than once per session as would be somewhat intellegent(ironically i don't think i spelt that word correctly).
There is no authentication of the other user in direct user to user communication, with aim you can assume if the user logged in as herself, its in fact her, but if you get a message on ICQ, it could just be somebody f***ing w/ your head.
This is not to say AIM is uber protocol, its got yucky things as well, nor is it to say ICQ is bad, i usually have both running, just because of the different userbases.
Heh (Score:2)
They should just get it over with and merge all these half-assed attempts at winning mindshare into one entity: The Microsoft Public Manipulation Team.
Re:What if........ MS used Toc? (Score:1)
(granted i've forgotten where exactly it said it, but if i cared, i might be able to find it again)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
Can you say irony? (Score:2)
Not to be paranoid.... (Score:3)
But I've sometimes wondered who was really posting messages promoting MS on
Humor Preview Warning (Score:1)
Get rid of the 'Submit' button.
Have a huge banner at the top of the preview screen saying "Have you considered the possibility that this person is being humorous"?
I mean, sheesh. Attached to nearly every funny/sarcastic/ironic comment are four or five responses saying "you're stupid, that's wrong". Even the obvious ones.
--
FUD (Score:1)
Re:NO. Your a moron (Score:2)
Can't WinNT compete?
"No. You're a moron." -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot.org
Forget all that enlightened approuch stuff. Forget function over splashy brochures. Oh no. We've finally awoken to what will REALLY get Linux out there into the masses. Not results... insults. And plenty of them. Can't we see about producing anti-Windows FUD while we're at it?
Open Source (tm) (Score:1)
Re:John Markoff (Score:1)
Want FUD? (Score:1)
Re:GASP! (Score:1)
Sadly, Libyasoft lost a lot of their customers because of this.
Not necessarily a conspiracy; maybe just sociology (Score:3)
I am shocked, SHOCKED! (Score:1)
Two Words [was Re:FUD] (Score:1)
Zontar The Mindless,
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
Re:Want FUD? (Score:1)
This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.
Re:Again? But that trick never works! (Score:1)
Zontar The Mindless,
Breaking down a proprietary system: Not Good (Score:2)
The only good that will come of this is AOL will possibly lose control of its IM system. M$ is probably using this to hurt AOL in some kind of underhanded way. Who the heck uses AOL's IM anyway? AOL subscribers. And who else?
All I hear is raves about ICQ and IRC and none about IM. It seems like AOL is way behind on this front. BTW, if M$ would build IM into their OS, it would crush ICQ and IRC financially. This is how M$ uses their monopoly power to kill companies, they buy into a technology and give it away for free.
For example, I heard about how several companies were offering (if I remember correctly) a video game audio technology. They were competing and were selling their technology. The software was continuously getting better and competetion was fierce. Micro$oft bought one of the companies. They took their software development kit and bundled it with another M$ development kit as a free add on. The other companies went out of business, competition has ceased, and development toward a mature product has ceased.
It is not necessairly good to have developing technologies as open source because it diverts revenues from these emerging markets. In the case of Operating Systems, the market has stagnated and this is why we see KDE and GNOME comming up from the rear with systems almost as user friendly as a Mac.
There is also the case where systems are not commercially viable. For example, EMACS is not a comercially viable product (Try to sell it to someone;), but is very useful for the many people that use it. So, it has become open source.
A market where I see that open source is not ready is digital audio and MIDI. If you look at Studio Vision, it is very hard to imagine developing such a product through open source. It is extremely complex and highly integrated. Only a highly talented development team who has access to tons of research can produce such a easy to use and robust program. Other examples are Photoshop, Canvas (compare to GIMP), Adobe Illustrator, and Macromedia Freehand (compare to xfig and killustrator).
On the other hand, anyone who has taken a comprehensive Operating Systems course and has some talent could write Linux or the Windows Kernel or even the Mac Kernel. (The NT kernel, from what I have read, is radically different. different != better)
So, what I am trying to say is that competition+venture capital feeds progress and M$=monopoly=kill progress. Also open source cannot compete with radical commercial software products.
Re:Great Tactic however... (Score:1)
Rambo, on the other hand, was brought in by the government to do stuff that they didn't want to get their hands dirty with....sort of like SOF [rysher.com] on TV these days, or like a more violent version of Mission Impossible.
WTF? (Score:1)
I can't believe you just said that with a straight face? Stability isn't important? I don't claim to be an admin or anything, but even with redundancy and clustering, when a server fails, it's going to mess things up. Do you want less stability on, say, the computers controlling the nuclear power plant near your home? I'm not willing to rely on clustering for something *that* mission critical. Or even better, are you willing to sacrifice stability on your company's payroll systems? I didn't think so. Give me stability!
Re:Breaking down a proprietary system: Not Good (Score:1)
Re:How do you track a Yahoo mail message? (Score:1)
Return-Path:
Received: from web103.yahoomail.com ([205.180.60.68])
by blah.yourdomain.com (Name of Mail Service) with SMTP id blahblahblah
So this guy at AOL really had to do some fancy tracing to find the orginating domain of the e-mail!
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
I do have a Voodoo Banshee in it, though.
=wl
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
not a big deal (Score:1)
Re:Disgruntled Employee... (Score:1)
Does anyone remember hearing about the original press release for Visual Basic 5.0, Control Creation Edition?
It included a list of upcoming publications that included VB5 CCE. One of the books was
* "Visual Basic 5.0 Client/Server How-To," Buck Forland, Waite Group Press
Buck Forland....
Seems that the microsoft joke department can't
come up with anything new or original either!
Re:It'll Be A Cold Day... (Score:1)
m*
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:4)
> posting messages promoting MS on
> other places.
Haven't we heard enough about "fake
Microsoft employees potsing pro-Microsoft
messages"? I think people just enjoy using
innovative software from the leader of our
nation's technology industry. Folks around the
world are amazed at the increased productivity
they experience because of Microsoft software,
and just want to share their satisfaction with
the exciting technologies available today.
Here's an example: we all know that Windows98
makes computers easy to use, right? But that
whole "point-and-click" thing doesn't work if
you can't see the screen! That's why the
patriotic innovators at Microsoft are hard at work
developing verbal interfaces, such as a lovable
talking parrot whose sassy, high-pitched voice
guides the eyeball-impaired through their favorite
programs. Who wouldn't feel a sort of
"irrational exhuberance" at these innovations,
and want to share word of them with the world?
Yours,
H. Humbert
Humbert Consulting
*They'll be using the Same tactics against Linux* (Score:1)
Reports and quotes from so called 'experts' who have this weakness of Linux to complain about and another harping on another set of negatives. All negative...all the time. Watch for it. We're so strong now and growing...and they're so quiet. It's scary.
Redhat should begin splashing some of that money onto full page ads in the trade magazines---and not just harping their own distro. Stuff for the community...
Re:Not the first time - OS/2 5 years ago (Score:1)
I can guarantee it's going on right now. I mean if it works once, wouldn't you want to try it again. FUD/Marketing call it what you will, it's all about influencing the ignorant, not a difficult thing to do in my experience.
I've seen some *suspicious* AC's on our very own
AOL not promoting ICQ.... (Score:3)
A quote from the article:
"Separately, America Online and Novell Corp. on Thursday announced that Novell, a network software provider based in Provo, Utah, had licensed the AOL Instant Messenger software and planned to build it into its Netware Directory Services software for corporate users."
In light of all these 'licensing' deals that AOL is making, I recall that no mention of ICQ has ever been made.
Once again, IMNHO, AOL is trying to kill any kind of 'IM' that isn't their own, despite the fact that they own ICQ now...
What do you guys think?
Another movie like this? (Score:1)
Yeah, I think I saw a movie based on a story like this too. It was called "All The President's Men". But that was just fiction, right?
Re:Great Tactic however... (Score:3)
A company can do a lot, especially in this case if the author is identified. Remember, that message was (allegedly) sent from a system on the Redmond campus. The author didn't even bother to log into his own ISP account and then connect to the free service. (Or maybe I'm just spoiled by my unix shell account.)
This means that an employee has:
1) used corporate resources to
2) publicly lie (about his affiliation with Microsoft, if not the buffer overflow problem), and thus
3) bring his employer into disrepute.
In the most extreme cases, Microsoft could dismiss such employees immediately. Any employee who inserts an actionable easter egg into a released product, *and* his immediate supervisor for failure to exercise sufficient oversight should be fired-for-cause, IMHO.
In this case, it would not be unreasonable for MS to insert a "written reprimand" for lying about his employment status in a message sent from MS property, with either a few days suspension and/or an explicit reduction in his next performance raise.
This response might sound extreme, but look at how much these antics are costing Microsoft. Right now it's only some techies who are outraged at "fluff" easter eggs in many (most?) MS applications, but what will happen if someone wins millions of dollars because one easter egg alleges that a particular individual is sexually assaulting his child, and it turns out that the egg was inserted by the spouse's new SO? Or thousands of users find their system compromised because a latter-day Excel flight simulator contains a serious security hole?
Re:Heh (Score:1)
What colors can you get astroturf in?
just an idea... (Score:1)
It is THE theme on slashdot an i really love to read the same arguments told again and again using different words and i am even more amused reading the lots of NEW arguments never heard before!
i have an idea:
make this discussion a separate part of slashdot, a permanent feature, a gamelike thing with a big counter Linux vs. MS where the best comments score! Only the last, say, 300 comments are stored, like with a logfile-wrapper.
Except of the above, THERE WILL BE NO RULES!
wow, i'd love that!
BUT WAIT:
Another thing we could do:
write two eliza-like programs, one on a Linux platform, the other on a windoze^H^Hws platform. (maybe even make separate ones for win9x and winNT...)
then, put them into discussion.
yeah, make them defend their platform and try to outrage each other.
AND: the both elizas must have a web interface, where geeks can add new arguments and curses to the knowledge-base of each one.
of course this could be extended to other platforms too!
maybe we can also do a moderator-bot, that tries to calm down both parties...
hummmm...that would be funny...
Re:Reading message headers (Score:1)
The message was sent from an anonymous account at Yahoo. Now, this was incredibly dumb--what "owner of Bucking Consulting, a software consulting firm" would send mail from a free account?--but the headers still don't say anything about microsoft in them. However, they do contain the originating IP address, which was traced back to MS.
"The one computer security expert who could trace it back to Microsoft"? Not quite. But it wasn't as absurdly obvious as you might think.
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
The fix: Task Manager, second tab. You _can_ kill processes in NT much like you can in linux, but it's all GUI-fied.
My gripe: NT doesn't give me problems on a workstation that's shut down when I'm not using it. 95 was a tad flaky in comparison, but never unbearable on a decent system. I just got a laptop with a clean 98 install, and it dies horribly every so often when it's supposed to suspend.
Problem? Yes. Why? Because some games need DirectX better than 3, and NT can't do it yet. 98 can, but it dies horrid flaming deaths far too often to be usable.
Anyway, closer to on topic:
AOL's TOC protocol based clients have been getting a pretty nasty beating from this MS problem, but they still connect. Are we meant to believe that a Tcl/TK app *and* a lisp applet, as well as an outside coded TOC-based client also abuse buffer overflows.
When it comes to flamebait, apparently Microsoft excels. More FUD, fewer facts than anyone else.
Christopher Kalos
Re:Yes, but not for these reasons (Score:1)
That's why things like drivers (as well as the OS) should be made open source. If the drivers cause problems then someone can fix them and submit a patch rather than waiting for the ISV to fix it themselves.
--
Defending Netscape and IE (Score:1)
I don't think Netscape is as unstable as people make out and on the Windows platform IE is more stable than Netscape but on the odd occaision IE crashes it's more likely to bring the system down.
Basically use whatever browser you prefer but it's a total load of rubbish saying Netscape crashes all the time.
As for supporting standards, why should Netscape waste time on getting standards support in the 4.x browsers? This would just slow down the development of Mozilla. IE5 isn't totally standards compliant and N4.x is even worse but until Mozilla I'm prepared to wait as if the standards currently work only on IE5 (Mozilla isn't stable yet so it doesn't count) they should not be used in web pages (except for testing standards compliance) as it ties down people to using IE.
Once Mozilla is launched we will have the standards compliance and cross platform support. If Netscape had worked on adding this to 4.7 then we'd wait a lot longer for Mozilla and as the 4.x series are based on the old layout engine it wouldn't be as small or as fast as Mozilla.
--
At least one Micros~1 defender is real... (Score:1)
--
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
(Try this:
text1
text2
tex3
in IE, if the window is resized, the center cell resizes correctly as that is the only variable width column in the table. Netscape just f*cks this up completely)
IE is far more stable than Netscape, though it has crashed a couple of times on me. I am not by any means pro-m$. I am just waiting in the wings for Linux+goodgui+Netscape5+LotusSmartsuite(+Dreamwea
Re:Great Tactic however... (Score:1)
Notice that:
1) Thus far they have been unable to identify the employee in question (which if their gateway is even halfway decent shouldn't take more than a few hours at most).
2) Rob Bennett (director of marketing, MSN) didn't exactly condemn whoever did it "somebody who got a little over-passionate but went about it the wrong way." Sounds like praising with faint damnation to me, especially in a culture that rewards taking risks.
3) Not only does Bennett not condemn the unnamed employee, he concurs with the statements so made.
It probably (IMHO) was not officially sanctioned, but I suspect that there was no need to actually ask someone to do so or formally approve it.
Reading message headers (Score:2)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
"Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me."
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
What if........ MS used Toc? (Score:1)
Anyway, I wonder if MS will try taking the path of using the publicly available protocol. Don't get me wrong, I dislike MS with some respect as the next person, but I think they should just be like the rest of the client developers and use Toc [tetrinet.org]. Just because little billy has plenty of money is no reason for him to be above the law.
For those that are interested in a primer on ToC, feel free to check out http://find.tetrinet.org/aol/ [tetrinet.org]. I have a (small) archive there of the ToC Protocol including the old TiK client for TCL that AOL distributed in place of their clunky Java client.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Read the Protocol [tetrinet.org] and decide for yourself. Cheers.
NO. You are the typical linux fanatic nazi (Score:1)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
Anagrams are also nice (Score:2)
Bill Gates: Steal glib: Bag it, sell
Linus Torvalds: Rival sold nuts: Sun's vital lord (hmmmm, what does this mean?)
Rob Malda: A bar mold: Rod a lamb (hmmm, better not touch this last one)
There's a lot more (ES Raymond = Sermon Day). Perhaps we could start using anagrams as /. login names.
Re:What if........ MS used Toc? (Score:1)
I've heard rumors (unconfirmed) that a lot of people have had trouble with Toc clients lately. I dunno. I ICQ anyway.
Misunderstanding (Score:3)
This is such a huge security issue it's revolting. But of course, nobody noticed that part of the story, because everyone was too busy laughing at how Microsoft made this information known...
--
Wonko the Sane
VNC (Score:1)
AIM for Linux? (Score:1)
Nathan
Re:Misunderstanding (Score:1)
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:1)
Seriously, hate to be offtopic, but all three have a total lock effect on my NT4SBS SP4 install.
I had problems with IE under my old NT4S SP3 install, switching to Netscape cleared that up, however now nothing does. I wish I could get a Dr. Watson or Task Manager.. nada.
Still working on the problem, so far the only solution is to not browse the web;)
Re:John Markoff (Score:1)
Nice to see employees from the microsoft astroturf division hard at work, isn't it guys?
Re:Business As Usual (Score:1)
Chuck
Re:Nah. Only /.ers think this. NT has advantages (Score:1)
but just in case others don't see the joke, can i make three points:
i)I agree that OLE ( and for that matter activeX ) are not supported in the MS fashion; I'm not sure if you also meant to include COM and DCOM in your list of glue, or you deliberately left it out becuse of the known security issues..
ii) ODBC is generally supported on most Unices, and specifically on ODBC is available on most databases, as are the drivers, look in Freshmeat.net for a whole bunch of drivers to attach ODBC for perl, java, c, c++, etc. Is the MS ODBC different from the publicly defined version?
iii) CORBA is available, for client programs, on windows and NT; you really dont want to put an ORB on these platforms because you want some stability in the server for the broker. The easiest implementation is built into JAVA ( the standard SUN version and IBM's, maybe not MS's) - and c++ libraries are availbale also. I don't know if the CORBA orb is fully implemented on windows, but it is on NT, and also a simplistic ORB is available as a JAVA example somewhere. Other glues (un-like OLE) are available in the desktop including tooltalk, KDE/KOM and GNOME.
but there do remain some cases where MS office products remain the most appropriate, its just that MS can no longer just wash alternative platforms away with no thought.
ray
Re:*COUGH*BARKTO*COUGH* (Score:1)
Re:AOL not promoting ICQ.... (Score:1)
Am I the only one who sees this?
Re:Great Tactic however... (Score:1)
Re:AOL and buffer overflow.. (Score:1)
MSN Messenger Faq Posted By MS. (Score:2)
Microsoft Continues to Work Toward Consumer Interoperability, Despite AOL Allegations About MSN Messenger
REDMOND, Wash. - Aug. 6, 1999 - On July 22, Microsoft® launched MSN Messenger Service, the free Internet messaging service that enables people to communicate with the greatest number of Internet users and offers the tightest integration with popular Microsoft communications tools. One of the exciting features of MSN Messenger Service is the ability to exchange messages with both other MSN Messenger users and with people using AOL Instant Messenger (AIM).
In several recent news reports, America Online has made a number of false or misleading claims about MSN Messenger Service. These comments have been made against the backdrop of AOL's failure to respond to consumer demand for interoperability between messaging systems. PressPass asked Yusuf Mehdi, director of marketing for Microsoft MSN, to comment.
Q: What is Microsoft's overall stance on instant messaging and how does it differ from AOL?
A: Communications continues to be the cornerstone of the Internet, and instant messaging is becoming a more prevalent way for people to communicate. With MSN Messenger we are offering a rich and easy solution for people to instant message. In addition we have delivered a breakthrough feature that lets consumers exchange instant messages not only with their MSN contacts but their AIM contacts as well. It is our view that instant messaging should quickly evolve to enable any individual to instant message with anyone else irrespective of their client software or messaging system. In the same way that different telephone handsets and systems interoperate, we're delivering the functionality to enable people to instant message with each other.
Q: What is the current state of Microsoft's relationship with AOL on the subject of Instant Messaging?
A: We are very interested in having AOL work with Microsoft and other industry leaders that have gotten behind a proposed industry standard for messaging. For the last two years, many companies have worked with the IETF on the Instant Messaging Presence Protocol as a standard way to help the industry move forward on interoperability. We are disappointed that AOL has chosen not to join the standards process thus far. We are also disappointed that in the interim AOL is choosing to deny consumers the choice of MSN Messenger interoperability.
Q: Does Microsoft's new MSN Messenger Service strip out AOL's privacy and security controls, as AOL claims?
A: Absolutely not. Privacy was a top priority in developing MSN Messenger Service, and Messenger provides strong privacy features that enable users to maintain total control of their personal information. MSN Messenger Service in no way compromises the privacy or security of people who use it to communicate with other MSN Messenger users or with their AIM contacts. Specifically:
Q: Is it true that Microsoft invaded AOL's network without authorization?
A: No. MSN Messenger gives people using the AIM service a choice of which client software they want to use to send instant messages to other AIM contacts. A person who chooses to use MSN Messenger uses his or her authorized AIM account, just as they would with the AIM client. All of the login, authentication and messaging activity for AIM contacts still occurs on the AOL servers, exactly as it would if someone were using the AIM client. MSN Messenger simply provides one integrated interface that allows people to send messages to both MSN Messenger users and AIM users.
Q: AOL claims Microsoft has subverted and/or disabled the AOL Instant Messenger software.
A: Not true. People are completely free to choose which instant messaging service they'd like to use as the default - that is, which service starts up and logs in automatically when Windows starts. If someone chooses to make MSN Messenger the default, it will be started when Windows starts and will log people into the MSN Messenger Service, and, if they have chosen, the AIM service as well. The MSN Messenger setup wizard is very clear in explaining what it means to set MSN Messenger as the default, and gives people the option to check or uncheck this box. This doesn't mean that the AIM software is disabled. People can certainly still use this client, and it is easy for someone who wants to make AIM the default service again to do so.
Q: Is it true that MSN Messenger drains AOL network and system resources?
A: Of course not. People who have chosen to use MSN Messenger to talk to their AIM contacts already have an authorized AIM account, one that they already use to send messages to their AIM contacts. This doesn't change when people start using MSN Messenger. The same AIM account is still used to communicate with AIM contacts; the only difference is the client software that the person has chosen. There is no additional load on the AOL servers.
Q: Why is lobbying for an instant messaging standard so important?
A: It has always been Microsoft's goal that people should be able to talk freely on the Internet, no matter whose software they are using. Microsoft has supported establishing an open standard with the IETF since November 1997, when Microsoft and the rest of the industry proposed the RVP protocol (now called IMPP - instant messaging and presence protocol) to the IETF. AOL was approached at that time to join with Microsoft, the other companies and the IETF, but they declined. To date AOL has not had any active participation with the rest of the industry in meeting consumer demand for interoperability.
Microsoft has been a leader in working with standards bodies and supporting industry standards for interoperability. Internet Explorer is a great example, because it was the first browser to support CSS, HTML 4.0, DHTML, etc. AOL has no track record in the area of industry standards.
Q: Why did Microsoft choose to move forward with interoperability in lieu of an approved instant messaging standard?
A: Again we strongly believe that the long term and best solution is for the industry to standardize on IMPP. We are committed and will support IMPP as soon as the IETF ratifies it as the standard. In the interim, we have delivered a simple and straightforward solution that provides consumers with interoperability among instant messaging clients. People are responding with overwhelmingly positive feedback on MSN Messenger and we will continue to do our best to meet consumer demand for interoperability.
Q: What about AOL's claim that it asked Microsoft to "make peace" in the letter sent on July 23, 1999?
A: It's simply untrue. AOL sent a letter informing Microsoft that they would block people who chose to use MSN Messenger to communicate with their AIM contacts, and proposed a "business arrangement." This is in no way in the best interests of our mutual customers or a solution to the broader issue of solving the industry need to have a standard for interoperability on messaging.
Q: Does Microsoft have any response to AOL's newly announced deal with EarthLink and MindSpring.
A: This announcement is unrelated to the core issues we have been discussing regarding enabling interoperability for consumers. Frankly it feels a bit like a diversion on AOL's part. They seem to be doing everything they can to NOT enable interoperability for consumers, which is disappointing.
Q: Will Microsoft offer free Internet access to its customers; and, if so, is it a direct shot at AOL?
A: Our focus with MSN Internet Access is to make it easy, fast, and attractive for everyone to get online. We have recently come out with some very compelling offers for consumers that marry a great promotion, such as the Staples $400 instant cash rebate in return for 3 years of MSN Internet Access, along with great technology such as the automatic account creation. In our efforts to help make getting on the Internet as attractive as possible we are considering all manners of technology and promotion. We have no new strategy to announce here from the great promotions that we are already conducting at retail stores today.
Can BeOS run/emulate an X server? (Score:2)
The Anagrams Page- a short history (Score:2)
Try to spot which companies and individuals and products are being talked about!
"(Vast Lord Linus) had a gleam in his eye that looked like UNIX- except it wasn't going to be expensive corporate wares. No, what (Snarl... I'd Volt Us) had in mind was (In Flexure), and (Felix Rune), though still more cryptic than the simplified GUI operating systems, developed its own loyal following..." (written in October 1996!)
Volt me, linus!
NT Supporters Suffer Due to MS Business Practices. (Score:2)
Now, we are seeing the effect of those practices. You couldn't praise NT as a user and have anyone take you seriously. Immediately individuals will assume you are from MS. It's quite sad, however don't blame the average joe, blame MS.
You reap what you sow.
The definition of an ISP. (Score:2)
Besides that I beleive that AOL has a backbone, or at least they used to.
For every time MS is caught,many times they're not (Score:2)
But you can bet that for every one time they're caught, there are many more times that they're not caught. And you know they've pulled the most absurdly outrageous things, beyond our imagination, and gotten away with it, because no one dreamed they'd do what they do. They keep outdoing themselves. They are simply better than us at subterfuge, deception, and not being restrained by scruples.
Yes, but not for these reasons (Score:2)
This is a corollary of the old standby "I don't want to learn anything new" which is the unfortunately often coupled with (at least in this case) "...and I don't know diddly now, either."
Linux: Because an OS is about choice, not intertia.
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
"An armed society is a polite society" -- Robert Heinlein
Not the first time - OS/2 5 years ago (Score:3)
Suprise? (Score:2)
This is very similar to the stunt they pulled with the Mindcraft Study. While not the same in nature, it's the same practice. "Feed disinformation to the public about a competitor's product, and then tell them about OUR product."
I'm no fan of AOL. God knows I hate them enough, however I don't like Microsoft's business procedures at all.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Anonymous Coward (Score:2)
Anyone notice... (Score:3)
Disgruntled Employee... (Score:3)
The name of the individual who supposedly sent this email was "Phil Bucking"
Switch the syllables around and you get:
"Bill Phucking"
Read that backwards...
And now you know the rest of the story...
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:4)
Though my network at home is run by a Linux system acting as a NAT/gateway, I spend most of my time sitting in front of a Win98 system (running an X server of course). Though I'm thinking I'll try Be out here eventually...
There's also a second NT head and a Linux/AfterStep box in the same room that I use occasionally.
The best OS all depends on the task at hand... Windows is not the best OS for all tasks any more than Linux is.
I tend to bring this attitude to Slashdot in my posts. Sometimes I'll step up and defend Microsoft because of unfounded/stupid/uneducated anti-MS posts, but just as frequently I'll be backing up posts that are critical of MS oeprating systems. It works the other way around, too.
I rarely see many other "pro-MS" posts on Slashdot, except for the inevitable idiot/troll that's just trying to be funny/annoying.
Of course, I doubt I'd ever come out and say that "MS' OSes were coded well or stable", but coding and stability aren't the only reasons one can prefer one OS over another for a particular task.
the very fact that M$ emplyees would act this way (Score:2)
at many companies no one would even *think* of behaving that way
But, M$ employees have pulled stunts like this in the past and we can infer from current behavior that M$ turned a blind eye to their "a little over-passionate" but darling children.
A quick analysis of the Dilbertian PHB (Score:3)
See, the person who gets me most of my work is a somewhat enlightened PHB. He's intelligent, has a lot of business savvy and knows a lot about where the bodies are buried. I'm slowly starting to understand his point of view, which is likely to be useful to my future - after all, you can't stay a coder forever, not if you want that inexpensive house on Sunset Plaza Drive in the Hollywood Hills [minimum price $495,000 and rising], anyway.
The primary concern of any boss is to keep the business running. The boss's nightmare is if the IT staff either quits or holds him up for more money. The boss knows that as long as there are plenty of MSCE's ready to help him out, his current IT staff can be replaced. If he uses technology nobody's ever heard of, that requires people that are difficult to locate, then his head is on the corporate chopping block.
Now, note that this doesn't require the executive to like Microsoft. He may find the company's products every bit as wretched as we do. But he knows that he can always find people who can use the stuff, even if the worst happens and his workers all leave.
There is a second, related reason bosses like Microsoft: Applications and software tools are inexpensive and plentiful. Oracle, Sybase and SQL server are all cheaper on Windows than any other platform due to the level of competition that exists. This is, again, something bosses love. They can pitch the salespeople against each other.
Finally, they have someone to blame when things go wrong. I'm not sure how much satisfaction they get from blaming Microsoft, because the company certainly isn't going to help them much, but the idea is there.
These strike me as valid reasons to use Microsoft, even if you hate their products. The good news is that it looks like the younger computing generation has rapidly assimilated Linux, thanks to its extremely low price and compatibility with existing Unix systems they may have in school. This is, no doubt, why MS is trying so hard to get people in academic environments to use their stuff - but they have met considerable resistance. From the perspective of people like Steve Ballmer, who I'm sure can see this as clear if not clearer than I can, this is disasterous news, far worse than any tiresome antitrust trial.
So the good news is that I see a very hopeful future for Linux and free software. What's happened in my own office is instructive - two additional people have been hired, both of who have an interest in Linux. So we are starting to get a critical mass of rebel geeks in the organization I work with, which has traditionally been a "Windows Uber Alles" type shop.
D
PS: You're probably telling me, "David, everyone knows MSCE's are incompetent boobs who studied very hard to pass a simple multiple-choice test." And I'm sure you're right. But at least it means some minimum level of ability, and that reassures the PHB.
----
Re:Not to be paranoid.... (Score:2)