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Ebay and Microsoft Fight Software Piracy 208

illeism writes "E-commerce News is reporting that Microsoft is going after Ebay sellers offering pirated copies of Microsoft software. From the article 'The suits do not name eBay as a defendant and Microsoft indicated that it has received extensive cooperation from the auction giant in the past as it tried to ferret out piracy. In fact, Microsoft said it asked eBay to remove some 50,000 suspicious auctions during 2005 alone ... The suits are mainly against individuals and cover alleged counterfeit sales of several Microsoft programs, including Windows and Office XP and older versions, such as Office 2000.'" More interestingly, the article flatly states that MS has no hope of ending piracy. The suits are apparently meant to 'protect consumers'.
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Ebay and Microsoft Fight Software Piracy

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  • by Silver Sloth ( 770927 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:20AM (#14941289)
    I make it a strong personal policy to completely disbeleive anything with Laura Didio's name associated with it. She's long been a special friend of Grocklaw [grocklaw.net]
  • Re:More M$ Hooey (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Half a dent ( 952274 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:28AM (#14941339)
    True. But I have purchased DVDs and software on ebay, some are blatently copies but some sell as the real deal only to be fake - these are what piss me off.

    I buy used DVDs because I don't care if I'm the first person to see it or not and I can get a title for 33% of retail this way but about every third DVD I get turns out to be a pirated copy. To be fair some of these are really high quality BUT some are filmed at the multiplex in glorious shakeycam (TM) with added foreign subtitles (non removable) thrown in at no extra cost.

    I want to pay a "fair" price. A fair price for used or OEM software is not the same as a CDR with a photocopied licence code.
  • by igb ( 28052 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:29AM (#14941346)
    Of course, Microsoft have an incentive to allow some level of piracy to flourish, just as cigarette companies want to encourage some smuggling from low-tax countries. The last thing that Microsoft would want is a situation where people with limited means cannot obtain Windows, legally or otherwise, and therefore instead opt to use Linux. At the moment, using Linux is a significantly worse outcome for Microsoft than people using pirated Windows. An increase in Linux use would mean a decrease in broken government websites that only really work with IE, for example, and that's a virtuous circle (from our point of view) and a rather less virtuous one for Bill. Likewise Office (in fact, far more so Office): it's worth almost infinite residential-market piracy to keep OpenOffice out of peoples' minds.

    ian

  • by Bomarc ( 306716 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:33AM (#14941374) Homepage
    I've had my software sold on eBay pulled by M$. The claim was that the software was pirated. The ad stated that the software was genuine; CD was real w/ key, box and license. But I wasn't sure that it had all of the paperwork. M$ then claimed that this was a "Pirated" copy. I got in contact with the person at M$, and after a few words, offered to bring it over. He declined. I asked how I could tell if I had all of the advertising papers, and he said that was my responsibility. M$ has an interesting definition of what is "Pirated".
  • by wile_e_wonka ( 934864 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:34AM (#14941377)
    When I bought my computer off eBay, I asked the seller if it had Windows XP Pro (my school required XP 'Pro,' and not 'Home'). He told me that it does, and Office too, but that eBay shut his site down when he advertized it. I thought, that's odd... (I was so naiive).

    Anyway, I bought the computer, and it came with a burned version of the resource CD, and the hard drive had images of windows XP, Office, Nero, Norton (no, I didn't install Norton!) and several other programs. Mind you this computer was cheap too. I though, wow I got a deal!

    But obviously everything on here is pirated. However, whenever I download something from Microsoft, they check to make sure my copy of Windows is "genuine" and it seems to think everything is in proper order...
  • by AnonymousPrick ( 956548 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:39AM (#14941416)
    Is it illegal to resell your original copy of Windows?

    I don't know, but with the required "call home" for many software packages, I'd be very hesitant to buy any software second hand. I'd be afraid that when I installed the second had software, it'd call home to activate and refuse to activate because there have been too many installs for that particular license.

  • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:41AM (#14941425) Homepage
    I must say I'm surprised at the amount of money people manage to make selling warez. I can't imagine many of these look like the real thing, I suppose it must be the "allofmp3.com" factor - you paid for it, so you've legitimized yourself. I certainly wouldn't trust anything I bought on eBay to be more genuine than the nearest bittorrent site. Without starting a "buy vs pirate" flamewar, getting it off eBay seems to be the worst of both worlds.
  • by Thud457 ( 234763 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:42AM (#14941436) Homepage Journal
    Doctrine of First Sale [wikipedia.org]


    Goddamn corporate whores are colluding to not just monopolize an industry, but the market itself. That's just wrong.


    If I'm forced to buy a copy of Windows that I don't want with my new computer, I should be able to freely re-sell that copy. (Ok, so being software, someone could make a "backup" copy and sell their original. That's not right either.)

  • by L0neW0lf ( 594121 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @10:53AM (#14941527)
    I must say I'm surprised at the amount of money people manage to make selling warez. I can't imagine many of these look like the real thing

    Prepare to be surprised.

    Back when I worked in a computer store in the mid-to-late 90's, we took in a shipment of copies of Office 97 from a major vendor. As we unpacked them, a colleague and I looked and I said "Hmm, that's funny, the CD-key label looks a little grainy". The orange did look a little grainy, so we looked at the rest. The CD looked fine, printed the way it was supposed to, the jacket looked like Microsoft Office, but the logos looked just slighly less sharp around the edges than usual. We called up Microsoft, and it wasn't legit, so we sent them back to vendor.

    Later, I found similar copies of Office 2000, holographic CD and all. Don't kid yourself; there's a market, even if you don't see it, and they look plenty real to Joe Sixpack.

  • E-bay loves piracy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by erichf ( 19315 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @11:06AM (#14941619)
    E-bay makes it incredibly easy for people to sell pirated software but makes it very difficult for owners of the software being pirated to stop the sellers. You have to join a program and then swear on your mother's grave and under threat of purgery that the person selling software is absolutely breaking the law and then you have to fax in documents to substantiate your claims (yes fax not e-mail). E-bay does eventually take action but they make the process as difficult as possible for owners of IP to defend their ownership. If I ran a business out of a store where I unknowingly (wink wink) facilitated the sale of stolen property, the police would still bust me and I'd find myself in court. E-bay does the same thing and somehow just waltz along with no repercusions.
  • by mikerand98682 ( 961847 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @11:09AM (#14941639)
    About five years ago I tried to sell the copy of Microsoft Works that came with my Dell on eBay. Never wanted it, would have gladly passed on buying it with my system had that been an option. It was sealed in the shrink wrap with the authenticity sticker still on it (the "opening this package means you consent to the licensing agreement" message sealed inside). Never used... never openend... pulled off eBay.

    I now understand that OEM Software is to stay with the machine it was bought with, but when the software is pushed to buyers that don't want it and are not allowed to resell their unused licenses, that's just too great a deal for the software publishers. I want in on that deal, heck, the mob wants in on that deal.

    I think Microsoft should provide some sort of refund for their software that has never been licensed. My workplace has several XP licenses never used because those machines are running linux and it was cheaper to buy them with XP and take it off than to buy without.
  • by Alex P Keaton in da ( 882660 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @11:23AM (#14941728) Homepage
    Not more than 10 miles from where I sit right now, a student stood up to Microsoft, and won... Remember reading about this?
    http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/03/11/ms_zam os_ebay/ [channelregister.co.uk]
    Chem student tames Microsoft's legal eagles
    eBay educator wins
    A not so bright Kent State University student has defeated the world's largest software company. Microsoft today dropped its lawsuit against David Zamos, and Zamos dropped his countersuit against Microsoft, The Register has learned. It seems that the public scrutiny over suing a student for moving a couple copies of software on eBay was too much for Microsoft to bear.
    The US District Court for the Northern District of Ohio today revealed that Microsoft and Zamos have settled their differences after battling in court for more than two months. "The Court was informed by all parties that this matter has settled in its entirety," wrote Judge John Adams. "Accordingly, it is hereby ORDERED that this case is DISMISSED without prejudice."
    Zamos - a chemistry student at Kent State - received a surprise in the mail last year when Microsoft lobbed a lawsuit his way. Microsoft was shocked to find Zamos selling one copy each of Windows XP Pro and Office XP Pro on eBay. The student had purchased the software at the University of Akron's bookstore and received a substantial educational discount, paying just $60 for the code. After deciding he didn't really want the software, Zamos tried to return it to bookstore but to no avail. He then put the software up for auction on eBay and brought in $203.
    Why Zamos thought he could move educational software on the free market is beyond us, but the student reckons he saw no resale restrictions on the software boxes. This, after all, is the same student who was "arrested after sneaking across a lawn . . . with a can of spray paint, heading toward the notoriously large Bush/Cheney sign in the yard of Summit County Republican Chairman Alex Arshinkoff" and then "convicted of misdemeanor trespassing and criminal mischief," according to a report from the Beacon Journal.
    All that aside, Microsoft's behavior in this matter is far more comical than that of Zamos.
    Microsoft's vast team of software snoopers were quick to notice the packages up on eBay, as shown by the firm's original filing in the lawsuit.
    "A Microsoft investigator sent a message to Defendant through eBay's website asking whether the disk containing the software included the phrase 'not for retail or OEM distribution.' Defendant confirmed by return email the same day that the disk did include the phrase," Microsoft's lawyers said. Irreparable injury
    Zamos, however, likely did not consider himself a retail or OEM outlet. He just wanted money back so he could buy some beer on the weekend. Microsoft saw the matter in a much more serious light.
    "Microsoft has suffered and will continue to suffer substantial and irreparable damage to its business reputation and goodwill as well as losses in an amount not yet ascertained," it said. "Defendant's acts of copyright infringement have caused Microsoft irreparable injury."
    Microsoft sought attorney's fees and Zamos's profit from selling the software.
    The whole matter took a different turn though when Zamos countersued Microsoft on Jan. 3.
    Zamos lobbed a large number of charges at Microsoft - most notably that the company made it tough to return software. "Microsoft purposely established and maintained a sales and distribution system whereby rightful rejection and return of merchandise that is substantially non-conforming is either impossible or practically impossible due to the ineptness of its employees, unconscionable policies malicious intent and deceptive practices," he wrote in the countersuit.
    What's this kid doing messing around with Chemistry?
    Word of Zamos's battle eventually reached the main Ohio papers, and that's when Microsoft got scared. It offered to drop its suit a
  • by Dr_Barnowl ( 709838 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @12:16PM (#14942159)
    Tiffany will be chasing those selling diamonds on eBay, not because they are counterfeit, but because resale of diamonds is anaethaema to the De Beers cartel.

    If you auction second-hand diamond jewellery, it suddenly has resale value. Since diamonds don't wear out, deBeers really don't want that, because their fortune depends on their control of the price of diamonds. If you could sell diamonds for anything like their market price, people would be more inclined to do so, the market would be flooded with the enormous number of precut diamonds in the hands of people everywhere and the price would drop like a (shiny but pointless...) stone.

    De Beers spend a great deal of effort persuading you to attach sentimental value [edwardjayepstein.com] to these small chunks of carbon, in order to dissuade you from selling them. Jewellers will rarely offer anything close to market price for second-hand stones, because they know if they do, their lucrative first-hand business would dry up.

  • But your not buying windows. Your buying only a licensed copy to use it. It just happens to come with a cd.

    Which is the same argument that the RIAA et al use, but I still have the right of first sale of the LICENSE, along with the media it comes on.

    Well, at least I have the right for the time being...

  • by botlrokit ( 244504 ) on Friday March 17, 2006 @01:02PM (#14942618)
    According to this article [clevescene.com], and specifically this page of it [clevescene.com], the student you wrote about can't discuss the case at all, or the settlement.

    Citing a "time management issue", he literally had to agree to disagree, but now can't discuss it at all. My guess is to discourage others from succeeding as he has done.

"Engineering without management is art." -- Jeff Johnson

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