Senator Orrin Hatch a Pirate? 933
Stigmata669 writes "Remember a few days ago when Senator Orrin Hatch decided that software piracy was punishable by destruction of computers? Well a bored and unemployed Sys. Admin in Houston smelled a rat when he was rooting through Hatch's website source. As it turns out Sen. Hatch is a common software pirate himself."
Shiver me timbers! (Score:2, Interesting)
I do (Score:4, Interesting)
I do not install unlicensed software in production environments. My personal computer is different, but I still conform to the license requirements or remove the software.
You're talking to sysadmins here -- you'll find relatively few pirates in the bunch. You might rethink your accusations in light of your audience.
And... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd like to see how Hatch's constituents react when they find out he's the one who authored the law that let the music company destroy their computer because little Johnny wanted to hear the latest trendy music hit.
And yes, I understand that no such bill would ever make it anywhere, but for a high-ranking Senator to even suggest such an idea is absolutely unforgiveable. There's no excuse for violating imaginary property rights, but there is an excuse for willfully destroying the physical property of someone? I don't know whether he's really serious about such an idea, but assuming for a moment that there's a bit of sanity left in his noggin, I think he needs to choose his words more wisely. The fact is, this simply cannot work out well for him, and will only provide fuel for his critics and those who would like to take his seat.
Quite frankly, the man has no concept of what he's talking about, and needs to sit down, shut up, and listen to what others have to say for a change.
Even better... (Score:3, Interesting)
[Thanks to The Turd Report [kuro5hin.org] for pointing this out on K5.]
k.
Re:yeah... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:yeah... (Score:3, Interesting)
Want another highlight? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's the webmaster's fault, not the Sen. himsel (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway go here http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy.
Remember Napster? (Score:5, Interesting)
I was amazed, but not surprised. That's not the sort of position one would have expected from the likes of Orrin Hatch, but clearly is ex-assistant was having significant influence on him in Napster's favor. How ironic, yet also unsurprising, that in the wake of Napster's demise, Hatch has pretty much gone 180 degrees from his previous stance.
As one of his constituents... (Score:5, Interesting)
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
Shuddder... (Score:5, Interesting)
ROCK THE VOTE!
Just few thoughts (independent software developers (Score:2, Interesting)
First of all I was kind of surprised when I first heard about Sen. Hatch's initiative. I am not a big fan of his but very often he looked pretty reasonable to me. IIRC he suppports stem cell research. But going after "pirates" being pirate himself is bad.
That being said I am actually more concerned about independent software developers. And the ways how they can make money and enforce thier licenses. I am not independent developer myself. But I can imagine that doing all that above and actually writing a code could be quite a hassle. I started to think about after I read this this storry. [slashdot.org]
The thought that occurred to me is this. May be there is a niche for something that we would call (for the lack of a better term) a "software label". It is something like a SourceForge [sourceforge.net] but with a bit muscule behind it. That is for independent software developer it would provide following functions:
1. Hosting a website for given software (that is in essence marketing and advetising).
2. Binaries (or even source code) repository.
3. Handling payments (especially electronic)
4. Legal representation.
Everything except item 4 can be set up on nickel and dime. And regarding lawyers. I hear that here (in the Sil. Valey) a lot of them lost jobs and gladly do lower pay or even pro bono work.
It can even act like an "agent" for a programmer. Just an example. My friend (well actually the guy I talk on IRC a lot) is a free-lancer. Year ago he got a contract to make them a site (linux+appache+php+mysql+lots of other shit). He made it (I was a beta-tester) company got it but now for some lame reason they refuse to pay. He might win but from what I see they are going to suck him dry first.
Point is you wrote a package. But for many reasons (especially now) starting your own company is not feasible yet. In this case it would be nice that there is someone who could handle the "overhead for you".
Hes in congress, of course hes not honest (Score:5, Interesting)
If anyone gets to talk to a Senator, this is a very good thing to bring up. According to standard copyright rates, they all owe more in royalties than most of them will ever see and some of these guys play with the national debt.
Re:Sensationalism... (Score:2, Interesting)
I do agree that it damages his stance regardless.
Politicians, watch out for unemployed IT people (Score:5, Interesting)
You know what they say: An idle IT person will hack into the devil's workshop.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:1, Interesting)
He has been recognized by the National Taxpayers' Union for his fiscal responsibility and has been dubbed by others "Mr. Free Enterprise," "Guardian of Small Business," and "Mr. Constitution."
<sarcasim>hatch must know these things it says he's Mr. Consitution right there in his bio.</sarcasim>
Attn Jensend - No, this is NOT an exception..... (Score:4, Interesting)
No, this time does not constitute an exception. Orrin was also the sponsor of another misguided piece of legislation that maybe you've heard of, the DMCA.
Orrin has taken over 175K so far just this year from the TV/Movies/Music lobby [opensecrets.org]
Orrin is one of the WORST congressmen this country has EVER had. Bought off like every other congressman but he apparently is not only paid off but stupid about the legislation that he introduces.
Now jensend, as a constituent I suggest that you get informed on these issues that your idiot congressman makes the rest of the country suffer for.
Re:Shuddder... (Score:2, Interesting)
So Hatch had better not be making any money off of the links.
In fact, I'd be very surprised if any payment arrangement existed between utahpr0n.com and Hatch. But wouldn't it be interesting if one did?
Didn't Congress bust Dan Rostenkowski(sp?) for as much?
Re:Hmmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap
" The senator, a composer who earned $18,000 last year in song writing royalties, acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers"
Apparently nothing. It will really suck when your new $60,000 Sun Server gets hosed because someone put a copy of the latest backstreet boys music on it.
Re:I live in utah (Score:4, Interesting)
The Canopy Group, a Utah firm with investments in dozens of companies owns the controlling interest in SCO. That's right, SCO.
Do you consider Hatch's proclamation coincidental to the Copyright issues Canopy has brought up against IBM and Linux as SCO's alter ego? This is a classic special interest lobby created to move public interest in a daring direction.
This senator has some interesting harmonics in his small world.
Historically, incumbents in the US Senate rarely lose an election, regardless of what they do.
A special investigator found evidence proving Senator Robert Packwood of Oregon in violation of campaign finance. The investigation yielded a scandal as Packwood's address book yielded names and address of his many mistresses.
Still, he resigned. No one voted him out.
The power base of a US Senator self perpetuates. During elections, they will be working on a major initiative or project. They will head a major committee. The voters will not vote them out. The state could be conservative and the Senator a liberal and he'll still win.
Senator Hatch has a self perpetuating power base and a very loyal constituency in a state where religion rules.
He's like the basketball player Karl Malone, he'll never retire.
Here's the danger: This guy has the ability to influence state, federal and local legislation.
And he is not demonstrated support for open source.
In our world, he's a butt-head. In the world of the uninformed, he's as right as right can be.
Utah politics is not more complacent or different than any other state.
It is however the power base of software firms and big, big dollars that are not our friends.
Is the US Senate Liable? (Score:4, Interesting)
"Many businesses, both large and small, face serious legal risks because
of software piracy. Under the law, a company can be held liable
for its employeesâ(TM) actions. If an employee is installing unauthorized
software copies on company computers or acquiring illegal software
through the Internet, the company can be sued for copyright
infringement. This is true even if the companyâ(TM)s management was
unaware of the employeeâ(TM)s actions."
If he had then imediately shot his computer... (Score:2, Interesting)
Really this is just an example of what we are seeing more and more again, is that IP is really only for big business, the right is simply not recognized for individuals, or smal l businesses. Hatch should do more than comply, he should set the example, and send the developer restitution... If anyone needs congressional help to enforce their IP its the small developers who simply cannot afford to sue, big lawyers == big overhead..., but
I guess that would upset the 'status quo'.
Re:And... (Score:1, Interesting)
Death Penalty (Score:3, Interesting)
Hatch reportedly said that. Ok, so what if destroying a pirate's computer doesn't do the trick? What if they get another computer and pirate more?
Maybe we should execute them... and if we do that, we should do it on national television to set an example.
Now that I have made some fun of the absurd overreaction to copyright violation, I ask this: how many congress people should be fired, or worse for knowingly doing things for personal gain, at the cost of the US people? That's theft of tax money. It's fraud, etc.
Point is, we all know the politicians are effectively paid by corporations to make certain decisions. We also know that we, the public, can't afford to compete with businesses to buy off politicians. I won't rant too much, but we've needed true campaign finance reform for ages. Corporations can't vote, so they shouldn't be able to manipulate government decisions. And we know many of them don't begin to pay the taxes they're theoretically supposed to pay. Yet I do pay my taxes, and when I screwed up one year, I ended up owing a bunch. I'm paying that off.
It comes down to this: our politicians are either ignorant about technology (this is almost universally true), or they are in bed with the corporations who are paying for their re-election campaigns. It's both, of course.
There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, to be able to compete during campaign time, you have to accept as much money from any source who will give it to you. That's the way it works.
I just don't know what more to say about this. It all seems futile. I do think justice, real justice, will be served one way or another. The people in positions of power who abuse those positions usually know what they are doing. They'll remember their deeds on their death beds, and perhaps they'll feel rotted. What a way to die...
Term limits (Score:5, Interesting)
Term limits would hurt politicians that are good as well as those that are scum.
That is the beauty of a democratic system. We get the opportunity to throw out the crummy tyrants and try to elect good tyrants.
Re:I live in utah (Score:4, Interesting)
Some other posters have claimed that this power is actually pretty trivial. Let me make this as abundantly clear as I possibly can.
WRONG.
I have witnessed personally that simply being Mormon gives you opportunities that one should clearly not have the right to. I recently saw every single hiring rule of the _corporation_ I work for, broken, to hire someone massively underqualified for a UNIX (not Linux) admin position. I had to show this guy how to use the 'ls' and 'cd' commands AFTER he was given this position. He also did not interview for this position. How can this happen you ask?
CEO of corporation needs blessing of several committees that Hatch sits on, hence, a huge percentage of uppers in this company, just magically happen to be mormon, including the VP 3 levels above the person in question, who bypassed all of the HR rules and regulations, elected not to make underqualifed person submit to a standard interview, and gave them the job.
Yes, it's discrimiation. there are labor laws against this. And there is a huge law on the books, that prevents Orrin Hatch from playing religious favorites legally. Little thing called the the First Amendment.
To anyone who lives in UT, vote this small minded bastard out of office, NOW. Get his paid-off ass back into the 'Temple' where it belongs. Preachers have no business in politics.
Yes, I'm posting this anonymously for obvious reason, I actually have excellent Karma, go figure.
Re:I live in utah (Score:1, Interesting)
Personally I am against the liberal line of thinking mostly because it removes my free-will to act as I wish with regards to my money. I am told that if I want to decrease my tax burden I am stealing money away from the poor. I freely give money to charities and the poor of my own choosing above and beyond my already outrageous taxes, we as a nation do not need to have a forced Robin Hood situation where money is taken from the richer and given to those with less. Those with less need to be given an incentive to work and earn more. our Declaration of Independence states that We were all created equal - it doesn't mean everyone's outcomes will be equal. I believe that most liberal followers (not the politicians) are good, honest people with noble ideas of how things should be. The only problem with their notions is that as long as the government is controlling and deciding who is rich and who is poor we all are beholden to that government. it is wrong - look at the former Soviet Union, China, Cuba. Look at all the people from Mexico and Latin America clammering to come to this still-great nation - they don't come here because of welfare, social security, or food stamps... they come here for an opportunity to increase their stations in life which they likely will not get in their countries of origin. I don't hold a grudge against anyone trying to get here - I wish they'd do it legally, though - I've been to Mexico and, frankly, it sucks by my standards. In a tourist trap like Cabo San Lucas you'd think that the city would be a bit more kept-up, but no, there was vomit on sidewalks, barbed wire fences laying in the road and on the sidewalks... everything was in disrepair...
anyway before I get anymore long-winded I think my point was that I agree with helping the poor and downtrodden, etc. but it should be on my own and not a mandatory tax of my hard-earned money.
good night, I'm tired.
Re:It's the webmaster's fault, not the Sen. himsel (Score:4, Interesting)
Fine, but that, IMO, is directly analogous to the idea of destroying a computer because it has been used for piracy. Consider the modern computing environment where multiple users may (and do) use one machine for a variety of purposes. Tell me, should all users of the machine suffer if one of them downloads music illegally? If all users on that one machine may be legally targetted because of the actions of one user on the same machine (which is basically Hatch's position) then surely he should be held accountable for someone else's work on his Web site. I mean, it's his site, not mine, not yours and certainly not his Webmaster's.
This only goes to show further how out-of-touch and un-informed Hatch really is about computers. He should be making no laws governing their usage until he can build his own fucking web site.
In his defense (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, he seems to comply with the terms of the license in the source code of the page. Moreover, any asshole that spends a few hours writing JavaScript code and enforcing a half-baked license to ruin someone's political career (for publicities' sake probably) should get a swift kick in the ass.
DHTML Menu version 3.3
written by Andy Woolley
Copyright 2002 Andy Woolley. All Rights Reserved.
Please feel free to use this code on your own website free of charge.
You can also distribute and modify this source code as long as this
Copyright notice remains intact and that you send me notice that you
intend to use this code on your website.
Limited support for this script is provided
Commercial licence agreements are available on request for use & full support.
You can send email to menu3@milonic.com
Milonic DHTML Website Navigation Menu - Version 3.x
Written by Andy Woolley - Copyright 2002 (c) Milonic Solutions Limited. All Rights Reserved.
Please visit http://www.milonic.co.uk/menu or e-mail menu3@milonic.com for more information.
The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites.
Commercial and Corporate licenses are available for use on all other web sites & Intranets.
All Copyright notices MUST remain in place at ALL times and, please keep us informed of your
intentions to use the menu and send us your URL.
Fire off a letter. It will do more good. (Score:5, Interesting)
I just got done writing him a letter and submitting it through his site.
Here it is:
Dear Sir,
Having read your recent proposition that copyright holders be able to "destroy" the computers of those who download their works without permission I am frankly appalled. I understand that as a copyright holder yourself this might be a hot topic for you but please do not let your emotions overcome common sense.
As a profesional Systems Administrator, I understand the problem of unlicenced downloading. It is a plauge on the bandwith of the systems I administer. However, your proposed solution is one of the worst I have ever heard suggested. Copyright does not take precedence over private property laws. Second this would cause untold financial damage to buisnesses, educational institutions, and government agencies who's machiens were used by employees to download music. In the case of medical, or military computers it could even cause loss of life.
Since your website was recently discovered to be running unlicenced software this campaign of yours is rather hypocritical.
I strongly suggest that you drop this idea immediatly as unrealistic. I suggest instead that you pursue reducing the length of copyrights and/or making it much easier for material to go into the public domain. This would allow for a much greater amount of material to be LEGALLY downloaded. People prefer to do the right and honest thing, as well as avoid possible crimes and their consequences. If they have more legal options for downloads many will choose the legal choice rather than the immoral one - thus allowing artists seeking to make a just profit from their recent works, while fulfilling the original intent of copyright - to provide a limited short term monopoly on creative works as an incentive for more material to be released and the public domain be nurtured.
Respectfully,
-name ommited from slashdot-
Re:I live in utah (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm also from Utah, an ardent Democrat, and there's no chance in hell Hatch will be kicked out of office.
Maybe, maybe not. He's being seriously blasted right now, on all of the local radio shows, in all of the papers, and there's been a surprising (to me) amount of word-of-mouth about it as well. My Mom mentioned to me that she heard about it on the local News/Weather/Traffic radio station's movie show, and not a *single* caller (or the host) had anything good to say. This is the largest "drive time" radio station in the state, by far.
Hatch has a *lot* of supporters in the state, but many are wondering if he's going senile. I mean, even if he believes it, how could any rational politician bring himself to say it out loud, repeatedly? You know it's going to make people mad; even the companies who stand to gain the most from a strong stance against copyright infringement on-line are going to distance themselves from discussion of "destroying" computers.
My letter to Orrin Hatch (Score:3, Interesting)
Subject: Intellectual property
US Citizen [yes] Constituent [No]
Mr. Hatch, I respect your current attempts to update your license on your menu. Intent to comply is very indicative of desire. I, too, try to follow every IP law that you guys write for us. The burden is heavy.
However, I would like to point out a bit of philosophy about IP law that has direct effects on the US economy.
I think you should reconsider your position, based on the position of right and wrong.
When you read this, think about natural rights vs. granted rights, and natural law vs. granted law.
(1) Whenever a government violates natural law, it hurts the efficiency of the law, it hurts the economy, and it hurts the government, moving the country toward a state of anarchy. Natural law are those laws that follow from our nature. Sometimes, we do write granted law: a law that is not natural, a law that violates property, or freedom of thought [religion], or the right to defend oneself [2nd Amendment]. The reason we do this is that life without charity and only according to natural law is hard. Yet with all the damage that unnatural law does, it should only be written with great trepidation.
Congress, by the way, is not real good at this one. Look at the size of our law libraries if you doubt me.
Think about my statement: Every unnatural law hurts the economy more than it helps. This is because it hinders economic production. Real wealth depends on production, not on wealth transfer. It is also because granted law makes the economic climate unsure: you don't know if the proceeds of your investment will come back to you or be transferred to another, so you are more hesitant to invest.
(2) Intellectual property is not natural law. The right to work is natural law [that is, to labor to the best of your abilities to better your condition]. Natural law is not to say what a man can do and cannot do to better his condition. Or another way: If I have knowledge, it is natural for me to use it.
(3) Intellectual property is a monopoly. There are two kinds of monopoly: the monopoly of being the only one able to do a job, which is a natural monopoly, and a granted monopoly, which is an unnatural monopoly. The US Constition authorizes some kinds of intellectual property, in an effort to reduce the former monopoly -- but current law increases the latter monopoly much more.
I would argue that it is usually better to allow natural monopolies -- but the fact remains that our Constitution allows otherwise, and I accept that.
Yet the Constitution does not stipulate a set time -- it allows the government to set an undefined limited term of monopoly.
Mr. Hatch, I would like you to consider that monopolies of every kind: copyrights, patents, and any other kind appropriate, be shortened, not lengthened. Already we begin to see the damage done by our IP law, and it is driving real business away, and encouraging investment in "patent firms", which do no real development or manufacturing, but consist only of lawyers who patent, wait for another firm to develop something, and sue.
It is destroying the fastest-growing segments of our information infrastructure as well, such as the Open Source Software that NASA uses.
Already it is encouraging companies to require employees to sign horrible agreements to sign away all rights to all inventions, and thus stifling innovation.
But I don't ask you to consider just the economic effects. Please consider the *philosophy* behind my claims, and see if that is true. If it is, only then consider the economic effects.
A little off topic (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sensationalism... (Score:2, Interesting)
Seems pretty clear cut. Seems like if I was the author/copyright holder of the software I would be well withinmy rights to destroy his computer.
And on your second point, I do indeed register all the shareware that I keep. Have I ever made a mistake and not deleted something before the date? Probably. But if I launch it and it is expired I will uninstall it or register it. Again, I am not perfect but I do make an effort.
Just because you (and many others) like to steal/and or violate copyrights does not mean everyone does.
Not everyone who writes/uses GPL software or thinks that there should be more services like apples itunes service are interested in violating copyrights.
Not everyone who things congress went too far when they started down the path of "perpetual" copyright with recent laws thinks stealing is ok.
As for your final request to direct you to all shareware registered in under 30 days.
Hmm, I own valid licenses for
winzip
getright
numerous video/image editing apps/plugins
Nero
Easy Video Joiner.
There are many others. Including 5-10 palm OS applications.
Shareware is usually pretty cheap. If you are using it, REGISTER IT.
Re:I live in utah (Score:3, Interesting)
Radio (Score:3, Interesting)