Crusoe WebPads By FIC 120
p0rkmaster writes "Found a nugget in a Tom's Hardware Guide report from Computex in Taipei - FIC was showing off TransMeta Crusoe 'WebPads' " Interesting specs, but no comment on what OS it's running, or on the type of wireless LAN used. If it's Linux and 802.11, we may have a winner ...
Re:Javascript on /. (Score:1)
cookies
Re:Javascript on /. (Sccre:5 Informative) (Score:1)
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Re:"charitable" screen size? (Score:1)
Probably a mis-translation of "generous".
Gordon.
Palm markets to the neo-Nerd (Score:1)
This is based on the stuff they send me as a shareholder.
So, basically, a true geek is not in their market, but a trendy post-geek is right in the crosshairs.
My favorite curdled English (OT) (Score:1)
Doesn't get much better than that!
--
Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:5)
I won't say your off the mark, more that you probably just hang out with geeks. In my experience Palms have brought us much closer to ubiqitous computing than MSFT, Intel and Apple combined. The palm is the only device I have seen turn people both young and old (teens to people in their mid-fifties) into blubbering nerds. I seen people from diverse cultural and economic backgrounds become enraptured with a Palm due to it's simplicity, usefulness and all around coolness. No tech-company today can say that their device elicits squeals of delight both from college students and CEOs of Fortune 500 companies.
Basically what I am trying to say is that Palms attract a lot more people than just nerds and even amongst the nerds that are attracted a lot of them aren't the slashdot-type/linux/free-software/hardware-hacker type, so thinking that some product will steal market share from Palm simply because Linux geeks will want to buy Transmeta is a false assumption.
Re:Will succeed if webpad is as thin as a clipboar (Score:1)
Blasphemy! =) (Score:2)
Ick. You almost perfectly described a WinCE/PocketPC device. So why haven't you bought one yet, then?
Ick is a relative term. I sorta want one too... but I'd have to find or write a program to throttle down the CPU and power down the screen, I think, when it's playing MP3s. It'd be nice to be able to play music for 10 hours, even if you're doing nothing else with it!
-AS
Re:How's it do DVD? (Score:2)
engineers never lie; we just approximate the truth.
Taipei Times article on Linux and IAs [In English] (Score:2)
"If the display booths of companies at a trade show in Taipei is any measure, Taiwanese manufacturers of Internet appliances are enthusiastically adopting Linux-based operating systems..."
Basically, the article says that Linux is the most popular candidate for IA devices; that Transmeta CEO Dave Ditzel has been in Taiwan, pushing the Crusoe; and that IBM is reportedly planning a Crusoe-based notebook. Of particular note, Taiwan companies also find Linux's foreign language capabilities to be of prime importance.
Re:What the hell is this???? (Score:1)
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:1)
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:2)
The Aqua is 1.5 pounds, the Palm is lighter then a can of soda. The Aqua is the size of a sheet of paper (B4 paper), the screen alone is 7.5 inches. The Palm fits in my pocket. My shirt pocket if I'm not wearing a tee shirt. The Aqua's battries last about 7 to 8 hours. The Palm's battries last well over a month.
Either the Aqua sucks big rocks, or the Aqua is aimed at a totally diffrent set of problems.
I'll admit, they have a lot of geek appeal. But they have a broader base then that. My lawyer has one. My accountant has one (he promised me he only keeps names, phone numbers, and meeting times, not account numbers in it). The guy behind the desk at the car dealer thought it was cool, and was thinking of getting one "if only they were cheaper". Lots of executaves seem to have them. So I'de say the geeks arn't the big market segment there.
Of corse, fewer geeks would mean fewer after merket doo-dads for it. Certinally no more pocket Rouge.
I thought so. I want one too. But it will never replace my Pilot (Visor actually). It's way too big. I might take it into boring meetings to fiddle around with (we have 802.11b at work). I'll use it at home, maybe. But it won't come to lunch with me. It won't go out on weekends. It won't even go into work every day.
I doubt anyone who has a Palm will stop using it after buying a Webpad.
P.S. the Moto 680x0 (or CPU32/DragonBall) in the Pilot is one of the few CPUs other then the x86 that the Crousoe could emulate quite well (similar ALU flags, Crousoe's 44ish registers are enough to deal witht he 16 in the 68010, and the non-IEEE FP in the Crouse won't stop it from emulating a CPU with no FP at all). So if push came to shove, Palm could "upgrade" to a Crosue. If they could solve the battrey problem -- the Crouse uses more then a DragonBall by a longshot. More even then the ARM which is what slashdot rand a bizzare story saying that's what Palm is going with.
Ummm.... (Score:1)
The OS? (Score:1)
image [fic.com.tw]
Re:It's *very* different. (Score:2)
The problem with Webpads (the continuing rant) (Score:2)
Let me rephrase: If I can't enter text easily, it's only a toy!
Web TV may offer horrible resolution, slow speed, generally weak user interface, but you know what? It's possible to send email with the chintzy wireless keyboard. Not joyous, but possible.
But with all the processing power built into these various transmeta devices, they will be more like sort-of-interactive picture frames (the constant smirking references to their pornographic applications are really not far off, I think) than the superby useful and fun things they could be, unless there is adequate text-entry means.
Does anybody code using graffiti? Does anyone like drawing up proposals using any kind of handwriting recognition? Maybe a few do, but even those I can just betcha would prefer, given adequate space and barring extraordinary circumstances, to have a "real" keyboard (however defined)
(What if I want to search on google for the name of a friend, and that name has upwards of 20 letters?)
Again, so long as keyboards will work via USB or other ports, then OK, ok, I give, uncle, mercy, etc. I'll get a happy hacking keyboard or similar and be done with it, and if I ever
overcome my Mr.T-like fear of airplanes and leave Iceland, my seatmates will just have to deal.
timothy
(In answer to the obvious, No, and no. Just kidding.)
Re:I am almost with you (Score:1)
802.11b Wireless Networking Support (Score:2)
I may be crazy, but I'm not insane (Score:1)
a) I'm impressed / suprised ("surpressed"?)!
b) If writing on my Visor felt like using a fountain pen or a quill pen, I might still consider it an archaic input device, but at least I woudn't scoff at it. I would even enjoy it more than I do, and in fact I do enjoy writing in Graffiti for short periods of time, only not for extended ones. Fountain pens of at least moderate quality are a pleasure to write with, even with my poor grip. Ball points, especially of the Bic and Papermate variety ubiquitous in offices, near cash registers, chained to hotel check-in desks, at the "Please sign in" board at the gates of Hell, etc, are a pain in the tookus. I consider them *worse* than graffiti, and you now know it's not my favorite, even though I live the devices it makes possible.
thanks for the reply, I withdraw the implication that *no one* codes in graffiti because obviously out there at least one guy does.
timothy
It's *very* different. (Score:1)
Hey Rob, Thanks for that tarball!
Scott
Re:802.11b (Score:1)
Linus wrote (or participated) in the microcode which means that by tenous logic every machine based on a Crusoe is running linux!
3200 is the Linux CPU (Score:2)
Re:huh? (Score:1)
Re:802.11b (Score:1)
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Re:It uses mobile Linux (Score:1)
The Surf terminals seem slow to come to the Internet access independently of the PC into travel - and newcomer Transmeta can probably cut itself a tidy piece of the cake for Internet Appliances. Gateway/AOL and S3 already announced appropriate devices; At Computex the Motherboard specialist FIC presented for the first time its WebPAD with a Crusoe CPU by Transmeta, developed under the code name Aqua. The device is equipped with a color LCD operates with Embedded Linux and is going to get according to manufacturer five hours of use from a fully charged battery. For the connection to the Internet an integrated radio modem is provided. The Transmeta processor already sections of the chip record (Northbridge) contains, is necessary beside the CCU only a Southbridge. Suitable building blocks offer at present both VIA and ALI. Will in the long run select which manufacturer FIC for the internal Web PAD, is certain at present just as little as the selling price desired.
640x480 (Score:1)
Isn't that necessarily wider than it is tall?
Don't all their pictures show a screen notably taller than it is wide?
Or is it just me?
- StaticLimit
The Aqua will run LINUX (Score:2)
"The Aqua, which should be ready for volume production by November, comes with a Transmeta Crusoe processor, a Linux OS and a Sony Memory Stick port, said Julia Kuo, a project manager for the company."
Re:802.11b? Silly American... (Score:1)
Didn't you learn anything from NASA? Use Metric! Call it 364.2kg!
Oh, whoops. You mean that's not an '31337'ism? You actually meant to use '1'? My bad
Latest on Release (Score:3)
Re:How's it do DVD? (Score:1)
The specs also say:
so it needs very low power consumption to make high performance come true, associated with an extended 5~6 hrs battery life using Lithium battery to complete superior wireless Internet access out of question
which leaves me to wonder if it wasn't written by someone with not the best grasp of english. Marketing by babelfish.altavista.com. Share and enjoy.
AAArrrgghh! Not a memory stick silliness! (Score:1)
CompactFlash? Cool. Microdrives are neat, reasonable amount of storage. CF is available at WalMart.
SmartMedia? Well, even though I like my Leica DigiLux, I admit SM has its flaws. It's sexy and slim, but
But that Sony memory stick stuff? WHY? What advantages does it offer (to anyone but Sony) over PCMCIA or CF? (I admit, the SM slots aren't good for much else.)
Sheesh. Stupid chewing gum form factor will win cause it's cute
timothy
Re:What the hell is this???? (Score:2)
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Re:BeOS; curdled English (Score:1)
x86 is x86 (Score:1)
However, this pad can't be running Windows Me, because it doesn't have a disk. So that leaves Linux, BeIA, or QNX.
What will make it a winner... (Score:2)
So, if it ran BSD, this is NOT a win?
This unit is too big to be a PDA. "The PDA Market" has shown large PDA's don't sell well.
Without Applications - a method to make this UNIT useful, it won't be a "winner".
There are plenty of places where this unit can be a win...just not in the palm pilot space, where size, battery life and cost rule.
A good place for thsi unit is in the 'roving inside your business comminicating data' market. Or, in the bathroom giving you something to read. Even here, if the backend of the company is Windows based, the only hope for pad-to-backend intergration is XML or a custom App. Given how well custom apps were rewarded by Apple/Newton, not many people will want to go that way.
Re:Pads versus PDAs (Score:2)
I appreciate the pointer anyway, AC..
Re:What the hell is this???? (Score:1)
hehe.
but is that a picture of it loading
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What does this mean for Palm? (Score:2)
Part of the Palm's success (I'd guess) was its appeal to nerds; and when one nerd brought his to a LUG, suddenly everyone else had to have one too.
But luggers are more likely, are they not, to opt for something made by a company for which The Creator works?
Just a thought.
PS oh, I want one. As well as my palm.
802.11b (Score:3)
The website mentiones 802.11b specifically as an example of their RF card. It's probably a safe assumption that they use 802.11 as their RF standard.
Now if we can only get confirmation that it runs Linux....
The Second Amendment Sisters [sas-aim.org]
Pricing... (Score:1)
Anyone know the pricing on these puppies? I'm waiting for the price to drop dramitically on similar devices, before I give up my US$150 Palm3...
Re:3200 is the Linux CPU (Score:1)
What market? (Score:2)
I think it's definitely cool, but I don't see where they're going with it.
"charitable" screen size? (Score:2)
What exactly do they mean by "charitable"?
Re:could it be... (Score:1)
I work for the FIC group! (Score:1)
I can tell you for a fact that the "Aqua" web pad will be using Transmeta's mobile Linux o/s and that it will be on display at PC Expo in New York at the end of the month.
Also an Acer PM told me that in Q4 this year they will be using 3120 chip in their web pad
For all the news spec, and pics visit my site
Tim
www.MobileLINUX.com
tim@mobilelinux.com
Re:Crusoe is not for Linux (Score:1)
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Re:could it be... (Score:1)
BTW, think I have enough Karma? [slashdot.org]
Re:3200 is the Linux CPU (Score:2)
How's it do DVD? (Score:2)
Or would it? I don't see where you'd put a DVD in the handheld webpad, yet the specs have it mentioned. Could this just be a buzzword seed?
I definitely like the concept. I'd buy one right now if it were available, but in the meantime - my I-Opener will have to do the job.
Needs voice input? (Score:2)
The simplest solution is voice input, though that would probably consume far too much power, and may not be ideal in a living room shared with other people. More complex solutions might work, e.g. the TV has an 802.11b or Bluetooth link, or even IrDA, and beams URLs of current programmes and adverts to all and sundry. Of course, there are some security issues - if you are watching the porn channel, Bluetooth would beam the hot URLs everywhere, including outside your house... Encryption might be a good idea here, which 802.11b has, though it's far too expensive for a mass market TV.
The TV industry is looking at broadcasting URLs and small amounts of data alongside the video signal, so that is taken care of, though I don't know the details.
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:2)
Note to companies: I will pay for your stuff. Please make your Linux PDA's soon. Thank you.
--
"And is the Tao in the DOS for a personal computer?"
It's Mobile Linux. Deductive reasoning says so. (Score:1)
It would be a braindead design mistake to use the "32 bit only" CPU in a device built for Windows 9X. That leaves Linux, WinCE, Palm and Win2K as the possibilities.
Since Webpads must be cheap, Linux, Palm and Wince are the only possibilities. Since it's a pad rather than a pocket sized device it doesn't need the "optimized for small screen" interface which is WinCE's only saving grace.
Palm wasn't really designed for things like full featured web browsers so this is most likely a Linux based device. Possibly running Mr. Turvalds' own distribution.
Then again I may be gusing
Re:Crusoe and Linux (Score:1)
~luge
Re:What market? (Score:1)
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Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:1)
Likely this will cost as much, and every damn reviewer out there will piss and moan that it doesn't fit in their shirt pocket, so of course it can't be any good.
Sorry folks...we're stuck with a crappy little device that has 2 square inches of screen space that manages (barely) to serve as a decent address book replacement.
Bitter...me...naaahhh
It's *very* different. (Score:2)
Hey Rob, Thanks for that tarball!
Scott
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:1)
I don't believe Palm's success it built on the nerd factor at all. Most Palm users I see day-to-day are in personal contact jobs - sales, marketing, business devlopment etc. It's the personal networking tool par excellence.
Re:curdled English (Score:1)
Re:What market? (Score:1)
You guys should read Don Norman's book, "The Invisible Computer."
Info about it is available from the MIT Press website [mitpress.com].
Re:What the hell is this???? (Score:1)
Yeah!! Now that's what I'm talkin' about! It's hard to tell how thick they are, though. I hope those aren't just mock-up "concept" units and they are real prototypes.
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Re:Crusoe is not for Linux (Score:1)
PS: Slashdot moderation strikes again: if it's not overtly pro-Linux, it must be flamebait.
Re:Crusoe and Linux (Score:2)
The "Windows-specific" optimizations (according to IEEE Spectrum [ieee.org] is merely support for the 16-bit operations. Apparently (a) Windows still has a ton of 16-bit code in performance critical areas, and (b) nobody at Transmeta realised it before their first CPU (the article said they were pretty much all Unix heads).
I find it a little supprising that they didn't do a better job of checking the dyanmic instruction mix of popular OSes and applications (maybe using bochs [bochs.com]) before spinning Si, but what the hell.
In any even the 400Mhz CPU will run Windows (or anything else a x86 CPU can run), and so can the 700Mhz chip. It's just when running Linux (or any all 32bit OS) more of hte transistors of the 700Mhz part will go to waste, and while running Windows the 400Mhz CPU will spend more time in the slow part of the emulator...
Re:Palm markets to the neo-Nerd (Score:1)
or... (Score:1)
Re:Pads versus PDAs (Score:2)
Why? Long battery life, nearly indestructable, decent input provisions, and you can plug a barcode scanner in. Going with a NCR barcode scanner syatem is prohibitivly expensive and you get shit battery life, and Palm doesn't give you a flexible enough interface nor the indestructability you need.
If they can make these things as indestructable as the Tandy, and offer better battery life for under a grand, I'm willing to bet POS and stocktracking will earn them a tidy sum before the geeks and marketroids even get into the game..
I am almost with you (Score:1)
And wireless, yes, is important.
But a touchscreen I could do without. I can see it for signatures or whatever, OK, fine -- and I can scribble Graffiti at a fair clip, so fine, little thumbnail sized area of handwriting recognition I'll go with. But most important is a provision for a keyboard! An actual external, moving-keys keyboard!, PS/2 best, but in the interest of not being a Luddite, I'll go with a USB port and buy an adaptor for my clicky beast.
Working with text is simply too ridiculous with handwriting recognition. You can bet novels would be a lot shorter if writers were confined to their Palms / Visors / Newtons
For $1000 bucks, I'm nearly sold, for $750 you couldn't stop me. I want to use a computer in the living room
timothy
Re:640x480 (Score:2)
It's BeIA (Score:3)
Oh yeah, the direct link is here. [fic.com.tw]
Re:Pads versus PDAs (Score:1)
If you want to keep track of your schedule and telephone numbers then a webpad is overkill.
If you want to browse the web, read ebooks or other types of documentation anywhere anytime then a small PDA won't cut it. In comes the webpad. Sure, you could use a laptop but the webpad is smaller, draws less juice (No HD or CD.) and has a higher kewl-ness factor.
For me a webpad is just what I want. You could even use it as a reference and browse online references while usíng the app on your computer.
Re:What the hell is this???? (Score:2)
Yes. It does in fact use Mobile Linux. (Score:2)
Re:It's Mobile Linux. Deductive reasoning says so. (Score:1)
it's comfirmed:
"On show for the first time will be the FIC webpad project, currently being developed in conjunction with Transmeta and code-named Aqua. This exciting new product is based around a Transmeta processor with
embedded MobileLinux OS, and offers wireless connectivity to the Internet enabled via state-of-the-art wireless technology and a residential gateway, which will connect to the ISP. The low power
consumption of the Transmeta processor ensures a battery life as long as five hours, while the LCD screen allows easy and unrestricted web browsing. "
Re:OS? (Score:1)
Re:3200 is the Linux CPU (Score:2)
BeIA will probably be the OS (Score:2)
Demo 2000 Conference, Indian Wells, Calif. - February 7, 2000 - Be Incorporated (Nasdaq: BEOS) today announced the selection of its just-announced BeIA(TM) software platform for Internet appliances by First International Computer (FIC).
Re:Crusoe and Linux (Score:2)
The last thing you want to do on a webpad is tell people "sorry, you have to be a techie to use that device" or "sorry, you can't play that DVD on there because it's illegal".
As cool as we think these things are, we aren't the market.
We need to fix the problem, the companies won't.
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Crusoe and Linux (Score:3)
Re:What the hell is this???? (Score:2)
Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
Thought exists only as an abstraction
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:1)
Peace out,
O
Re:"charitable" screen size? (Score:1)
Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:1)
However, the reasons why Palm devices *became* so popular are worth a good look. Amongst other things, simplicity and battery life have been key factors in this.
What is the first thing I looked for in that "webpad"? The battery life. It says "5-6 hours". Why, that's about as good as my laptop. I change my Palm III's batteries about once every *three weeks*!
Re:"charitable" screen size? (Score:2)
It's like... (Score:1)
FREE UI IDEA FOR PDA's (GPLed here on /.) (Score:2)
I should patent this idea-- but I'm sure that my home network connection would be DoS'ed because of it. ;)
|\_________|
|_\ _______|
|__\_______|
|___\8_____|6
|____\0____|4
|_____\0___|0
|______\___|
|_______\__|
|________\_|
|_________\|
`----------'
<--- 480--->
I won't attempt to draw a PDA in ASCII tilted at an angle, but I think you can get an idea of what I'm getting at here.
This UI idea Copyright (c) 2000 Simon Janes, released under the terms of the GNU General Public License. If theres "prior art", I'll happily concede credit to the original inventor. :)
They say that everyone makes stuff to scratch and itch, and I'll bet you're wondering what mine was: It was listening to you people bitch and moan about this particular web-pad not being 800x600 or 1024x768! ;)
_______
computers://use.urls. People use Networds.
Re:I am almost with you (Score:1)
BeOS; curdled English (Score:4)
Love that language in the page, though. Favorite phrases include:
Re:I am almost with you (Score:1)
* LEP (light-emitting plastic) foldable monitor.
* Chord Keyboard, Englebert style (bitch to learn I'm sure, but magnificently portable). This could be foldable too.
ETA: 3 years.
What the hell is this???? (Score:4)
[rant gun to full power]
If I want a Palm, I'll get a palm. When I heard "web pad", I pictured a notebook-sized unit with an 800x600 or 1024x768 screen, say about 1/2" thick that I could toss around the living room. At least, I think that was the unit described at the (in)famous Transmeta coming out party.
This is totally worthless for surfing the web. The technology is there for a real web pad... my IBM laptop's screen is only a half-inch thick. Put the electronics and battery around the sides of the screen and boom! instant web pad, the way it should be.
Come on Crusoe licensees, get a clue. If you want to make a Palm, make a palm. But don't call it a web pad when the SCREEN IS TOO SMALL TO SURF THE WEB.
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Re:What does this mean for Palm? (Score:2)
Have you seen how many suit-and-tie folk carry the things? That's where Palm is making its money.
(I'm willing to bet that geeks take up a large percentage of the 3rd party app market, though - a lot of the suits I've dealt with never install new software on theirs)
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
Pads versus PDAs (Score:2)
What I don't like about my Palm V is the lack of color, lack of memory, lack of CPU, lack of small removable storage. And better sound capability. I want to be able to toss out my portable MP3 player and just swap memory sticks in and out of my PDA with a good set of earphones. And to be able to plug in a small game controller and play stuff on it as well. There goes the Gameboy. Heck, even small movies on that screen if the removable storage has the space.
A webpad just doesn't do that for me. A webpad might work strictly as a specialized input device that I used strictly to enter data now and then and to dump immediately into a computer or into my PDA. But I wouldn't keep anything standing on it. Or with wireless capability as a remote terminal, which again puts it more in the data input category and ability to view remote data. Or if they used the size to have a DVD-ROM drive built into the thing, which is about the only thing that might justify the form factor. Even then I might just break down and go to a laptop.
A webpad strikes me as one of those nasty compromises that gives you the worst of two worlds. Not as large and comfortable and powerful as a laptop and not as conveniently portable as a PDA. As others have noted, this is where the Newton died. Ergonomics are critical for a device like this, and webpads just don't do it for me there.
It uses mobile Linux (Score:2)
Re:I am almost with you (Score:2)
see www.clio.com. and no, I'm not gonna give you that in html; you like your keyboard so much, right?
and Linux is already ported to it, see www.linux-vr.org.
just waiting to get the damn PCMCIA-CF adapter in the mail, and I'll be going to town on it.
Aren't you a little small to be a Stormtrooper? (Score:2)
Re:3200 is the Linux CPU (Score:2)
Read the "history" article on the Crusoe that was posted here a couple of weeks ago. It explains it.
5-6 hours between charges is pathetic (Score:2)
A mere 5-6 hours mobile use between charges is ridiculous for a truly mobile device, it's as bad as a laptop. Compare that to the 3 months on a pair of AAA batteries for the Palm -- it's no comparison at all. Crusoe-based webpads need to strike a happy medium to be useful, something like a week's use between charges, otherwise there'll be nothing special about Crusoe-based equipment and people will stick with tried-and-tested technology instead.
That's not the Crusoe-based webpad (Score:2)
The lack of built-in video display in the G2K kinda limits its use as a webpad.
The Webpad in contrast *is* Crusoe and Linux-based, as is readily apparent from the link off www.mobilelinux.com.
Looks like Yopy this year, webpad next year (Score:2)
I wish these damn mobile computers didn't have to be made with colour displays for marketing reasons though, as the resulting poor battery life makes them almost unsuitable for their main target market. We need something between laptop power consumption and the Palm's three-months-on-two-AAAs frugality, say a week's use between charges. The Yopy's StrongArm is even more frugal than the Crusoe, but the colour LCD makes that irrelevant. Bleh.
Re:What market? (Score:2)
Your sitting on your couch, a
You are sitting in your easy chair reading a book, you read an obscure reference, you pull out your webpad and look up the info.
You are in your kitchen, you forgot your recipe for cookies, you pull out your webpad and look up the recipe.
You are sitting on your toilet...well you get the idea.
etc...
Certainly not a replacement for PDA, too big.
The above have happened to me numerous times, I have wanted one of these things since I first heard of the Cyrix based one, so damn handy.
Re:It's Mobile Linux. Deductive reasoning says so. (Score:2)