Journal FortKnox's Journal: Turning Away From Java.... My Job Move 53
Yeah, the icon really says it all here...
I'm moving to the .NET group from the Java group. The move was announced today and will be official in January.
Why in the hell would I make such a move? Well, I'll be happy to explain it.
I got the job at my current company about a year after I graduated. I came in at an 'associate' level. Didn't really know much Java or anything and it was taught to me through a few 'big projects' (where I could slip through the cracks of not knowing Java). I learned it and was swapped through several new projects for a while. During this time I really learned all the new technologies (struts, hibernate, spring, etc...), and really fine tuning my OO design and aspects of the full development cycle.
So what's the problem? Well, I was brought in as the 'kid'... low man on the totem pole, if you will. When I was swapping around in the projects, I worked with almost everyone in the Java group. Not only that, but there was the whole 9/11 thing and IT got hit and there was layoffs and the only guys hired where really senior level guys... so, although I didn't move 'down' in position, people were filling up the positions above me, thus pushing me down further in my group. What's funny is that I know a lot more than half of them now due to knowing all these new technologies that we are now using, yet I'm still considered the low guy.
My current assignment has 2 Java guys from my company that haven't worked with me before. The developer AND the architect both see me as a peer. What a great feeling it was. But its short lived because the group is almost like a clique. The senior level guys still see me as the kid.
So, I jumped forward and tried to make myself someone outside the group. I cross trained in new technologies that no one else in the group was interested, and the guy in charge of the cross-industry group noticed me. When he needed someone to go to the Adobe (see, I told you it was a big company) training in Chicago, I was chosen. I went with the guy in charge of the .NET group. Through the week some of my frustration came out and the guy was actually surprised. He and the cross-industry guy are good friends, and he said both of them really thought I had an immense amount of potential and the fact that I was on the trip showed them I really wanted to get ahead.
Anyway, I spent a lot of time working out training for the the stuff I did in Chicago for my own company (which only one Java guy attended), and was really held in high regard by the .NET guys and the cross-industry guys. Was nice to feel important and needed... But after the training, everything fell kinda off (which may be why I haven't been in the best of moods).
Anyway, I was invited to a meeting with both groups last week. Afterward I was pulled aside and invited into the .NET group. They need a java guy in there to help cross train the .NET people in Java because a lot of these new technologies and products that are being used in our industry are written in Java. A lot of companies that want these technologies are .NET shops. By having me, they can use me to create some type of communication between the two so that all they need to maintain is the .NET portion of these products. Plus, this puts me in high visibility and basically considered a senior level person in the group.
There is a disadvantage to this, though. The Java group, as I said before, is a bit of a 'clique.' When people leave they tend to get alienated from the group (a lot of the Java group are heavy Linux users... I'm moving over to the Microsoft group...). This is a big hit because I will still be using Java and stuff...
But, I was already considered the 'kid,' so its not that big of a hit, I suppose.
So there ya have it. I've made a move to improve my career path. Its considered a 'parallel' move in that I don't think I'll be getting a promotion, but I will be considered high up in the group and will be extremely valuable in the group.
Next stop, management position...
I'm moving to the
Why in the hell would I make such a move? Well, I'll be happy to explain it.
I got the job at my current company about a year after I graduated. I came in at an 'associate' level. Didn't really know much Java or anything and it was taught to me through a few 'big projects' (where I could slip through the cracks of not knowing Java). I learned it and was swapped through several new projects for a while. During this time I really learned all the new technologies (struts, hibernate, spring, etc...), and really fine tuning my OO design and aspects of the full development cycle.
So what's the problem? Well, I was brought in as the 'kid'... low man on the totem pole, if you will. When I was swapping around in the projects, I worked with almost everyone in the Java group. Not only that, but there was the whole 9/11 thing and IT got hit and there was layoffs and the only guys hired where really senior level guys... so, although I didn't move 'down' in position, people were filling up the positions above me, thus pushing me down further in my group. What's funny is that I know a lot more than half of them now due to knowing all these new technologies that we are now using, yet I'm still considered the low guy.
My current assignment has 2 Java guys from my company that haven't worked with me before. The developer AND the architect both see me as a peer. What a great feeling it was. But its short lived because the group is almost like a clique. The senior level guys still see me as the kid.
So, I jumped forward and tried to make myself someone outside the group. I cross trained in new technologies that no one else in the group was interested, and the guy in charge of the cross-industry group noticed me. When he needed someone to go to the Adobe (see, I told you it was a big company) training in Chicago, I was chosen. I went with the guy in charge of the
Anyway, I spent a lot of time working out training for the the stuff I did in Chicago for my own company (which only one Java guy attended), and was really held in high regard by the
Anyway, I was invited to a meeting with both groups last week. Afterward I was pulled aside and invited into the
There is a disadvantage to this, though. The Java group, as I said before, is a bit of a 'clique.' When people leave they tend to get alienated from the group (a lot of the Java group are heavy Linux users... I'm moving over to the Microsoft group...). This is a big hit because I will still be using Java and stuff...
But, I was already considered the 'kid,' so its not that big of a hit, I suppose.
So there ya have it. I've made a move to improve my career path. Its considered a 'parallel' move in that I don't think I'll be getting a promotion, but I will be considered high up in the group and will be extremely valuable in the group.
Next stop, management position...
Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Can you point me to where I can download the Microsoft .NET runtime enviroment for solaris, linux, or osx? Without an officialy sanctioned runtime enviroment that is cross platform, that portability of C# is useless. Mono is great, but they are in the position of playing catchup, whenever a change or new class is released.
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
I'm certainly not upset with MS not providing a Linux runtime environment. I think it is a dumb move, since it could make MS a lot of money in the long run, but it would be inconsistent with the current MS party line of pretending, at least publicly, that Linux is not a serious competitor.
I'm just explaining why .NET i
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
I agree, it is not really a cross platform enterprise environment. It *could* be, but the reality is it probably won't ever. The fact that MS uses this as a selling point is a bit misleading.
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Try VMWare.
1) It is much better about supporting non-Microsoft guest operating systems.
2) They have versions that will allow you to use linux machines as hosts. (great if you want to run linux but still need access to windows only software).
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
1) It is much better about supporting non-Microsoft guest operating systems.
2) They have versions that will allow you to use linux machines as hosts. (great if you want to run linux but still need access to windows only software).
I know VMWare kicks Virtual PC's butt and have been wanting to try it. My dilema is I get Virtual PC free through an MSDN universal subscription. So basically, I'd have to pay $$ for VMWare to use a legit copy.
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:2)
Microsoft will most likely *never* do that because they don't want to endanger the server market. However, they are pretty friendly to companies like Ximian who created the go-mono project to do just that. They also created an Open BSD "reference" implementation that runs the CLR, but it is for academic purposes only. Let's face it, MS is
Re:Why do companies use .NET? (Score:1)
Your future (Score:2)
Re:Your future (Score:2)
Re:Your future (Score:2)
cool (Score:1)
Congratulations kid * (Score:1)
I don't understand why people use
In all seriousness however, your work environment and peer re
WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE! :) (Score:2)
Anyway.. if you have questions about
Re:WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE! :) (Score:2)
Best part, I can get an excuse for my company to pay for me to attend a
I'll probably get some of the training material and see what I can do from the start. Once I get into it, I may try to get
Re:WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE! :) (Score:2)
Hehe.. I must admit, I was actually shaking in excitement when I read it. :P
.NET group that just started in Cinci (there was another one, but not as good). I can hook you up with the guy if you're interested in checking it out. It's definitely a great way to make some contacts and learn the new stuff coming out. Of course, you're always welcome to come to an ... and stay a night or two! :) [nwnug.com]
As far as user groups go, there is actually a new
please define (Score:2)
What is the *nix? mindset?
Re:please define (Score:2)
Not Microsoft. Microsoft mindset people don't like that.
Re:please define (Score:2)
Do things right. Avoid kludges. Don't make assumptions about your environment. Avoid bloat. Separate logic from presentation. Code for portability. Don't assume you know better than your users -- let them tweak things to work they way they want. Yeah, I can see how you'd get sick of that. Not.
Re:please define (Score:2)
Re:please define (Score:1)
Re:please define (Score:2)
Duh!
Re:please define (Score:2)
When I was in college, myself and many other "linux zealots" were adamant against Microsoft. This was for good reason because they often had the attitude of doing silly things, forcing crap software on you, etc. MS is still guilty of this, but a lot of it is/was also in the "eye of the beholder". The perspective that *nix mindsets look at tends to be purely technical.
Now days, I find that most modern day linux zealotry still looks at MS in the same way- and r
Re:please define (Score:2)
I'm not saying this is justified or a good thing, but more of a perspective issue.
Re:please define (Score:2)
Definitely- perception is a big part of it. Also, stereotypes/generalizations are there for a reason. There are MANY clueless MCSE's, and a lot of companies have been burned because of them. Sure, there are some MCSE's that are competent and actually know what they are doing. I'm sure there ar
Re:please define (Score:1)
I think Microsoft attracts people that think it is "good enough if it works", instead of "the system has to be perf
Re:please define (Score:2)
However, OTOH, Linux is not perfect either and it has its problems, but it's just so damn well designed and definitely works a lot better in many cases as a server. It still has that mostly justified stigma of being difficult to use (initially). Also, the many distros tend to keep it fragmented. Knowledge of one distro doesn't guarantee easy transition to
Re:please define (Score:2)
Weird, I hear this all the time. I actually spent an entire semester this last year studying the design and implementation of the Linux kernel and I had a completely different impression. The code itself seems poorly documented and overly optimized for speed over supportability. So much of it seemed very "hacked" together. It didn't give
Re:please define (Score:2)
My natural stereotype or first impression from SO many RL examples is to think of a pro-Linux person as fairly clueless. They have little to no experience writing real application or running actual servers in a workplace. They're usually complete social misfits who don't know how to communicate and hate Microsoft since the last time they used Windows (probably around 1997) it crashed on them during a boss fight in their favorite game.
We can go back and forth on this if you like :-)
Re:please define (Score:2)
Frankly, I think you're stretching the truth or you've met some strange people.
Some of
Re:please define (Score:2)
I'm being completely honest with you. Most of the guys at school who use Linux are complete idiots. They use Linux because it's the cool thing to do, not for any technological reason.
I've dealt with far less Linux people professionally though. The few that I have in my shop are much the same, they can repeat the things they've heard on Slashdot about Linux, but they simply aren't technological people.
Most of the people I've known IRL who talk up Linux are, at their core, Microsoft haters. They've
Out of curiosity... (Score:2)
I'm so proud of you! (Score:2)
Don't worry about alienating the java-tards; as long as you produce quality they can't say shit about you.
I've been doing the same thing as you- trying to get my name out there and work with as many different groups as possible. Its not that I'm considered low man on the totem pole in my group, its just that my group is 10 people on a project that was a major black-eye and l
Cool... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... (Score:2)
Re:Cool... (Score:2)
Luckily, my VP has dealt with Microsoft enough to encourage finding other solutions as often as possible. It's a technical paradise!
Congrats man! (Score:2)
To offset it, I'll replace 3 more Windows servers this week with BSD boxes.
Seriously though (well, not about the Windows servers, they ARE history), congrats and enjoy!
I have a clipping (Score:2)
I find it interested about your .NET, and frankly have been puzzled by its (perceived) popularity. What I realized is that .NET pretty much made it easier for the VB guys to get their hands on a more powerful language, but pretty much screws everyone else with reduced functionality. There were/are quite a few VB programmers, but like most "web developers" have limited/f
Re:I have a clipping (Score:2)
Written in Java and running under Tomcat and Apache?
Re:I have a clipping (Score:2)
Congrats (Score:1)
Congrats! (Score:2)
My guess is, you don't know it yet, but you'll be getting some sort of a promotion (or at least a raise) as well :)
Best of luck!
Re:Congrats! (Score:2)
Nice! (Score:2)
*grin*
Pixie
Traitor! (Score:1)
After all, nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM^H^H^HMicrosoft :-)
Similar feelings here. (Score:1)
I've seen a couple of student workers become professional tutors after a single semester as a student worker. Yet I feel I know more about how the lab and college work than any of the