Tiny Linux PDA: Filewalker

senseimoron writes: "Check out the Filewalker, a new Linux-based handheld, with a very unique (one-handed) means of inputting characters. It is too difficult to explain, just checkout the site. I'd be interested to see how well the interface works." The English link may be more useful. From the price listed on the site, it would sell for US$560.

hmmm....

Seems like my thumb would fall off in a week if I had to turn a wheel for every character I typed. Does this input method have any advantages other than it being one-handed?

price

???
no way, that's more than the zaurus
which has a faster cpu ,
a real kbd
ans a nice color display.
etc.

Hmm...

I know i will get modded down for this....

but does linux really belong in the PDA market?

PalmOS and WindowsCE are already very established, and people trust/use them. Also, these OSes were MADE for PDAs, instead of being ported.

Is it the fact that it is open source, although windows ce is already open source?

I know you can run more applications with linux on the pda, but how many applications do you actually need for your pda that are not availible for windows ce and palmos?

I am sure that hackers will enjoy it, but is there really a market for linux pdas?

WinCE is not open source

You can download and view the source to WinCE, but you can't legaly do anything with it.

But anyway, that question is kind of stupid. I mean you could have asked the same thing about linux on the desktop a couple of years ago, I mean we had macOS and windows and Unix for people to use.

And I think that the really important thing to remember here is that, for the most part, PDAs are toys. Even the loweliest, most out of date used Palm could do just about anything you really needed organizer wise. People buy these things because they're fun. Sure, they might not admit it, but you really don't need a PC you can fit in your pocket that can play MP3s and Divx movies. People want those things because it's fun.

And Linux is fun for some people. It's also cheaper then licensing WinCE or Palm (and it gets you free play on slashdot :P). I mean the whole point of a PDA is to have something 'cool' really, and for some people linux does make it cooler. If people are willing to buy these things, why not use Linux?

(Btw, I just hate people who always have to ask 'do we really need this' I mean, do we really need anything do we need video game systems, or fast cars or DVD players?)

Re:Hmm...

PalmOS and WindowsCE are already very established

Oh good grief! Well, Windows is pretty well established on the desktop and some server markets - does that mean we Linux dorks should just go home and stop bugging people with our silly ideas?

Handheld devices are becoming more and more powerful (I read that in a 2002 prediction list, so I think it's true), as such they will need to utilize "real" operating systems at some point (when they are roughly equvalent to todays desktops, lets say), WindowsCE is a nice intermediate step, as are the Linux variants for portable devices currently being used - it's just that the "evolution" path for Linux seems a bit easier than with the Windows paradigm; but what do I know.

Oh, and I didn't know that WindowsCE was an entirely new codebase written from the ground up for portables and had nothing to do with WindowsOtherWise. (I don't think I have to mention that WindowsCE is about as Open Source - yes, with capital O and S - as my ass, from the Linux perspective of course)

A bit expensive

With 649,- EUR, I think it's a bit on the expensive
side. Especially since I'm perfectly content with a
paper address book.

But if I can install my own sowftware easily, it
could still be a neat toy.

input

I've heard about this type of input before. Anything other than a stylus and I'm happy. What I'm really waiting for is direct brain input.

"Hello. I am your PDA. You can call me Wintermute."

Finally...

A revolutionary instead of evolutionary means of inputting data. Whether it works or not - this is a good thing.

I have no doubts, that it will require a few days of toying around to get accustomed to, but since you have 3 characters at your disposal for every turn of the wheel, I think the wheel-spinning will not break your thumb off.

Imagine for a moment that you have become proficient at "typing" in data in this way. You have the use of your second hand for other things like holding the phone, etc. when using this device.

No one should bear any illusions that this thing will have any kind of mainstream success. It's obviously designed as a geek toy .

Too bad I recently bought a m505 or else I'd give this thing a try. I'm not too fond of the palms graffiti either, on long texts I use the pop-up screen keyboard instead.

Touch Screen?

The jog dial + 3 buttons seems a fairly rapid method of text input but I'm not sure it will be convenient for things like pocket Quake.

Also no mention is made whether the screen is touch sensitive which would be a very useful addition for web browsing which all handhelds should be capable of...

Does it sync to a Linux desktop?

I mean it is all very nice and all that they have Linux running a PDA but what use is it to me if it can only sync to a Windows desktop.

All the Linux based PDAs seem to have the same problem... Windows desktop only. I can understand that it requires a Windows desktop for economic reasons. I already have a PalmVx that has several Linux desktop environments to choose from and they work fine.
-DU-...etc...

Unique?

...with a very unique (one-handed) means of inputting characters...
Hello? Haven't you guys ever heard of a Nokia 7110 [nokia.com]? There's even a Quicktime movie [nokia.com] showing how the 7110's NaviRoller works.

English isn't that hard.

with a very unique (one-handed) means of inputting characters.

Something is either "unique" or it is not. There are not levels or gradations of uniqueness. Unique means "one of a kind." Have you ever thought of saying that something was "somewhat one of a kind" or "very one of a kind"? Of course not.

P.S. This is not "off-topic". If it can't be discussed here, where can it be discussed?

Triggering my BS dot-com mumbo jumbo filter

...with a very unique (one-handed) means of inputting characters. It is too difficult to explain, just checkout the site.

If you can't explain an input device in the space of a Slashdot story, you're either a simpleton or the device is too complicated. In either case, I'm not interested. This Slashdot story writeup reminds me of a zillion business models that I read during the dot-com craze. "I can't explain it in just a paragraph, but it's going to be revolutionary, really. You have to see this." Whatever.

Come on, /. editors, can't you at least say "you select characters using a jog wheel and three buttons"? How hard is that? And furthermore, it's not that far away from the method my Sony 300-CD changer uses to select letters. If you want to put in the title for a CD that doesn't have CD-Text on it, you use the jog wheel. Big deal.

Anyone else think Twin Peaks user interface?

Take that, Microsoft Bob! Looks like we might have Linux BOB [owlcave.net]

[ahem]

"Thru the darkness
of Future Past
the magician longs to see
one chants out
between two worlds
File - walk with me."

Sorry.

Complicating things

Get your useless 560 dollar palm today!

For 560 dollars you think it would actually SAVE you time...

Linux based PDAs are still 2-3 years off..

I have seen dozens of Linux-based PDAs come across my desk, and I have yet to see a single one of them actually "get it". These PDAs will not succeed just because they have Linux on them. There's some core, fundamental things missing, which will be required before these Linux-based PDAs can catch on:

• First and foremost, these vendors need to concentrate on the existing PDA userbase, because most people who will buy a Linux-based PDA are going to be the users who have already owned a Palm, or an iPAQ. In order to do this, think DATA, not hardware or cool new features. If I move from my Palm m505 to a FiREWALKER, how do I get my data from Palm to FiREWALKER? This is CRITICAL.

  Without a good, clean data migration path, these devices will stagnate and orphan themselves off.

• Providing a way to get data to the desktop is a good start, but.. a Windows desktop? Most users who would purchase a Linux-based PDA are going to either be existing PDA users, or existing Linux users. Where is the integration with the Linux desktop(s)?

• What about a common data storage format, so I can integrate the data from the FiREWALKER with my Palm data? Perhaps I want to carry both. What about exchanging records? Beaming?

• Where is the SDK? Without a nice solid, robust SDK, there's going to be no way to extend the device. Palm's dominance in the PDA space (now at 82% of PDA owners) is largely successful because of the millions of third-party applications available for the devices.

  Without a unified SDK for these devices, using a common data storage format or ruleset for conversion, these devices will just die off. Each one ends up being a one-off.

• What about a common sync path? FiREWALKER to desktop, FiREWALKER to other PDA? FiREWALKER to other Linux PDA?

If these companies are going to try to make a successful Linux-based PDA, they must fill and follow the 4 S's.

1. SDK
2. Storage
3. Sync
4. Share

The hardware, however cool, is irrelevant unless I can get to my data, and get my data into the applications I need to use it with; desktop, other PDA, cell phone, whatever.

I've dealing with PDA development and data/application integration and issues like this since PDAs first came out, and I know what's missing and what needs to be improved. These Linux PDA vendors are completely missing the point.

Faster to use button combinations

Its actually alot faster to use button combinations rather than a roller wheel. You don't need alot of buttons to do that, either.

Or, if you want a good but portable keyboard, use a one handed one:

http://www.halfkeyboard.com/

Either of these concepts would work much better in a PDA than a roller wheel - where you have multiple rolls then a press for each character. Unlike every other alternative (graffiti, keyboard, half keyboard) this one takes multiple actions per character, and you would have to look at the screen to know which character you were at because its state dependent.

My 2 cents worth

Compared to Nokia 8890 input

I have a Nokia 8890 telephone, and it has the standard numeric keypad with "ABC", "DEF" combinations per key. I can press each key only once, and it figures out by the combination what word I want to type. It's not perfect, but it seems this "smart" technology should be standard for input into small devices. So basically with 10 keys I can type very quickly.

Lefties?

Do they make one for lefties? Or is it just like everything else in this right-hand centric world?

Re:Lefties?

That was a joke, but anyway, the sad truth is that there are few lefties, and companies like this probably cannot afford to create two versions of their product.

Hell, how many left-handed mice and joysticks are out there?

But there are good news [burgerking.com] for lefties as well.

Visually dependet inputs are bad

This input type depends on visual feedback. You have to choose the character among a list by scrolling throw it. A typical character selection would look like this:
1. You look at the currently selected char.
2. Is it your desired character?
Yes: Press the selection key, think of the next character, and restart at 1.
No: You estimate the alphabetical distance between the currently selected char and your desired. If it's "far", hit the scrollwheel fast. If it's "near", hit the scrollwheel gently. Start at 1.

The problem is, you will always have to look at the display while you're searching, which makes the process dependent on visual feedback. Just think back to the times when you where new to QWERTY (or for those who can't remember, think of the times while trying DVORAK). You were looking at the keyboard searching for your key to press, ackwardly slowing your lexical progress.
The revolution in typing speed has accoured that moment as you don't depend on the visual feedback any longer, freeing a lot of mental processing time for hand, finger, eye coordination.

The scrollwheel is as slow as my mobile phone sms writing interface.

What IS a good way to get data into tiny things?

This wheel + buttons thing, while different, is obviously not gonna cut it. I can't stand those Palms chicken-scratch pads (I can type about 150 times faster than I can "write" on those - I don't even think I am exagerating) and you are not gonna lug a useable keyboard with you.

What's left? Voice is the only thing that really comes to mind, but that has obvious limitations. The newer "natural handwriting" recognizers are a step up from the Palm things, but I for one would not be able to use one since even I can't read my handwriting (plus I write far too slowly anyway).

So are we stuck until a way is figured out to stick in a 1394 port at the base of the neck? Any innovative suggestions?

Chording keyboards

The Filewalker is definately interesting, but the text input method seems like it would be a pain. The biggest drawbacks are:

• text entry will be slow because it is essentially a serial-access device not a random-access one like a keyboard
• you have to be looking at the screen as you type, because you need to see which column of letters is in view.

An interesting alternative would be a device like this that used a chording keyboard. These were pioneered by a British company called Microwriter who built a device called the Agenda back in the early '80s. This had a text entry system that uses five keys - different combinations ("chords") of keys generate different letters. It takes a while to learn the chords, but once you know them you can type one-handed, relatively rapidly and without having to look at the screen. Chording keyboards may also be less liable to cause RSI.

For more information about chording keyboards, see this FAQ [tifaq.com]

What about southpaws

This looks like another Right Handed biased product. I have a Kyocera Smart Fone, and being Palm dirived it is also Right Handed biased ...

Well We left handers have jut been ignored one more time aka BVD underwear with the flap in the wrong direction

Jog-wheel courtesy of sony...

I own a Sony cell phone with one of these jog-wheels, and personally I see this as a great input method. You can easily go up to 8 clicks with an easy roll, so going from the (abc) to (pqr) is easy. I also own a Palm, and I still have to look at it while writing in grafity because it's so easy to mess up a character. So what we have here is a solution that only uses one hand, even if it no easier to input text. Any of you out there that drive/talk on the phone/smoke/use palm/drink coffee will be able to appreciate that!

...and the market for one-handed folks is how big?

Yawn. There have been quite a few ideas for easier handheld input, the one-handed keyboard [handykey.com] and left handed QWERTY keyboard [half-qwerty.com] being two examples for one-handed imput. There are many more. Will they ever (or this one) take off? Only if it is (1) easy to learn, or (2) there are huge advantages. I can't see either in this case. Graffiti succeeded, because it is (relatively) easy to learn. Cell phone users put up with their keypad, because this is the only viable option with today's cell phone sizes (except hauling more equipment around).

If neither of the two criteria is given, the technology might still succeed - in a niche market. I can see this technology in some industrial environment, where the operator has only one hand available. But the mass market? Nah....

Dyno Label Maker

Almost as revolutionary as the amazing Dyno Label Maker [acme.com]...

-Don

Xerox PARC Tab

This is remindes me of the Tab project at Xerox PARC: http://www.parc.xerox.com/csl/members/want/papers/ parctab-pcs-dec95.pdf . The Tab has a series of keys down the side for input.

Re:How to kill a penguin

$ su # rm -R / Morons can't trash linux system even if they want to!

English URL

The URL for the English version is

http://www.invair.de/FILEWALKER/English/hauptteil_ english.html [invair.de]