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The Truth About File-Sharing

Posted by JonKatz on Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:45 AM
from the -not-thieves-but-consumers- dept.
A series of new studies of Napster users suggests everything you've been reading about music file-sharing systems is baloney. You're not thieves and pirates, it turns out, but marketing pioneers and music lovers quite willing to pay for music. These new stats suggest that file-sharing could have enormous implications for the selling of content, culture and information online, none grasped by dunder-headed corporations like the record labels. They are also a reminder not always to believe what you read. (Read more).

According to the January issue of American Demographics, a magazine which hardly supports radical copyright-infringers, music sites like Napster have created "powerful new opportunities for music marketeers." Despite the best efforts of the greedy record companies and a few recording stars -- Metallica and Dr. Dre come readily to mind -- to alienate a new generation of music lovers, recent figures prove that file-sharing services actually generate sales and put more money in artists' pockets.

This has enormous implications for those making movies, publishing books, or creating any kind of saleable entertainment. It suggests that the Net may work best as a three-step process: first connecting customers with culture, then generating interest in cultural and informational offerings, then keeping track of their tastes through sophisticated new digital marketing research. Theoretically, file-sharing approaches could go beyond shopping to stimulate interest in education, business, even politics, if the music experience is any indicator. And it sure ought to be.

The relationship between new decentralized software programs -- Napster, Freenet, Gnutella, P2P -- and such issues as copyright infringement, artists rights and conventional retailing is complicated. Legal, political, educational and other institutions haven't begun to sort through them. But clearly the music industry's panicky and greedy overreaction will prove one of the most dunder-headed, short-sighted responses in recent business history. The industry couldn't have been more off-base, dishonest or greedy.

Nearly 75 percent of college students have downloaded music from the Net, 58 percent of them using Napster, according to a recent study by Greenfield Online, a Connecticut research firm, and YouthStream Media Networks. Nearly two-thirds of the 1,135 college students surveyed say they download music as a way to sample music before buying it. The proliferation of online music is introducing consumes to artists they don't know, in almost precisely the same way department stores offer samples of food, perfume and other retail items. A survey by Yankelovich Partners for the Digital Media Association found that about half the music fans in the U.S. turn to look for artists they can't or don't hear in other venues, like radio. Nearly two-thirds of those who downloaded music from the Web say that their search ended in a music purchase. Music labels should have been donating money to Napster users, not threatening to sue them and chase the site off of college campuses.

And the much-libeled Napster users are dedicated music buyers, quick to reach for their wallets. Jupiter Research says it found that 45 per cent of online music fans are more likely to have increased their music purchases than online fans who don't use Napster. The Jupiter study of Napster users found that 71 percent of users say they're willing to pay to download an entire album.

Interestingly, reports American Demographics, the Jupiter Study of Napster users found that 71 percent of those who use the site said they were willing to pay to download an entire album. But in a Greenfield Online survey of 5,200 online music shoppers, nearly 70 per cent say that they have not paid -- and will not pay -- for digital music downloads. This suggests that subscription-based services may be more likely and successful than a per-song fee system.

This potentially revolutionary model for marketing culture is about to be dismantled by the new partnership between Napster and Bertelsmann, which is giving the file-sharing site more than $50 million to develop software that will charge users for music. Bertelsmann says it will keep a part of Napster "free," but watch for yourself to see how quickly it shrinks.

These figures, remarkably, demonstrate that almost every assumption about the free music movement, reported in most media outlets and used as justification for a wave of new legislation and legal action like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, is dead wrong:

  • Most music downloaders aren't thieves or pirates but music lovers willing to pay for music.
  • Artists have made more money from this new generation of music lovers than they would have without them.
  • The true significance of file-sharing wasn't an end to intellectual property, but an exciting new way to develop markets.
  • Record companies and other corporations should be supporting file-sharing sites ratherthan hiring lobbyists and lawyers to intimidate, sue and enrage new and eager customers. College students have nearly universal access to broadband, and are tomorrow's mainstream consumers. The more information and culture they have access to, the likelier it is that they'll sample new venues, products and information.
  • Evidently, file-sharing isn't a dangerous menace but an effective new method of disseminating -- and selling -- content, and culture. Aside from these new findings, the Napster experience also suggests that when it comes to dealing with the Net, businesses often have no idea what's good for them.

And oh, yeah. Don't believe what you read about yourself.

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  • Short-sighted by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:49AM
  • Re:i wasnt surveyed... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:48PM
  • Re:give it up by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:20AM
  • Duh! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:08AM
  • $250,000... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:21AM
  • Re:Yeah, but what about the artists' say? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:37AM
  • Re:Mightn't the figures be skewed? [fairtunes] by cduffy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:53AM
  • Re:Existance of copyright by J. J. Ramsey (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:13AM
  • Re:Ugh. by Craig Maloney (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:37AM
  • Re:Well, duh by aXion (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:21AM
  • Re:More likely to spend money by dentin (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:31AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by yoz (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @12:58AM
  • Big Media by JonKatz (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:13AM
  • let's pick your argument apart. by mushroom blue (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:57AM
  • Statistics can prove anything by AviN (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:24AM
  • Sharing, in general by artoo (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:48AM
  • I challenge Katz! by FallLine (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:56AM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by um... Lucas (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:57AM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by um... Lucas (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:49AM
  • Re:Well, duh by Haifen (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:59PM
  • The right to be DUMB by Sly Mongoose (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:42AM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by MathewR (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:19AM
  • Slight difference in terms... by verbatim (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:07AM
  • Irony! by Evro (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:50AM
  • Re:give it up by unsanity (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:12PM
  • An issue of control by ddb (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @07:42AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by Hast (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:53AM
  • For how long? by aphasic (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:27AM
  • Napster's Quality by ThreeTee (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:58AM
  • DUH... by Mancide (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:57AM
  • Re:give it up by The Raven (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:14AM
  • Re:Irony! by CoderDevo (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:33PM
  • I TOOK A SURVEY OF COLLEGE STUDENTS! by tomcrooze (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:18PM
  • Re:Hmm by MarNuke (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:42AM
  • Re:Mightn't the figures be skewed? by gimpboy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:53AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by gimpboy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:59AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by gimpboy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:32AM
  • i wasnt surveyed... by gimpboy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:38AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by gimpboy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:44AM
  • Re:Oh Yeah, BTW Jon... by gimpboy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:49AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by johnrpenner (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:33AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by johnrpenner (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:08PM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by johnrpenner (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:32AM
  • Re:Hmm by FeeDBaCK (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:42AM
  • Hmm by MultimanZ (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:51AM
  • 5.5+ hours per cd? by tosderg (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:56AM
  • Re:Hmm by civilizedINTENSITY (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:34AM
  • Re:very true by civilizedINTENSITY (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:56AM
  • Food and MP3s by Monte (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:48PM
  • Re:Hmm by charlesc (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:56AM
  • Re:Mightn't the figures be skewed? by dgoodman (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:31AM
  • Someone set up a site... by Dwonis (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @04:09PM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by ktakki (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:49AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by ktakki (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:56PM
  • Re:Karma Whore to the Rescue! by ktakki (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:40PM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by ktakki (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:52AM
  • Re:Uhm, really? by goldmeer (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:03AM
  • Re:Grog... not... understand... by glenn mcdonald (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:21AM
  • Re:Hmm by -=[ SYRiNX ]=- (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @04:08PM
  • Re:Hmm by -=[ SYRiNX ]=- (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:08PM
  • Statistics are all unreliable by brett42 (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:34AM
  • Re:give it up (Yes and No) by kootch (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:08PM
  • Re:give it up by kootch (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:14AM
  • So sue me by jabens (Score:1) Sunday January 16 2000, @05:05AM
  • Make money from physical stuff... by Katchina'404 (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:31AM
  • Re:Not for long. by Maeryk (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:32AM
  • Re:Irony! by donutello (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:36AM
  • Uhm, really? by Lonesmurf (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:54AM
  • Lose the record companies! by NTSwerver (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:09AM
  • Donīt be so Americocentric by Dervak (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:54AM
  • Another wrong assumption by sfranklin (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:33AM
  • Re:Hmm by lewp (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:57AM
  • Re:The true fear by rweir (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @04:41AM
  • Re:The true fear by VAXman (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:32AM
  • Re:Hmm by VAXman (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:30PM
  • damned lies and ... by ryantate (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:29AM
  • Re:damned lies and ... by ryantate (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:42AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by cowscows (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:36AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by cowscows (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:05AM
  • Re:Honor system doesn't work by cowscows (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:09AM
  • read more! by mrsalty (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:02AM
  • Re:One fine day by heymull (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @06:29AM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by ResHippie (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:33AM
  • Actual Numbers? by Modern_Celt (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:51AM
  • Re:give it up by Cyberllama (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @12:25AM
  • Re:One fine day by paulschreiber (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:33PM
  • the reason for p2p fs: by moogla (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:25AM
  • Go figure.... by incognitox (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:34AM
  • Re:Short-sighted by jallen02 (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:04AM
  • Re:The true fear by Mersault (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:36PM
  • DUH! by crashnbur (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @05:21PM
  • Re:This is fantastic but it won't matter. by prisoner (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:41AM
  • Re:Short-sighted by antis0c (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:43AM
  • Re:Hmm by Malk-a-mite (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:05AM
  • forgot a statistic: by geekoid (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:31AM
  • Flamebait? by geekoid (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:35AM
  • shite by MuddyFunster (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:18AM
  • Re: Capitalism by jdcormie (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:09PM
  • Important Statistic by jfortier (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:38AM
  • Early downfall? by bool (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:25AM
  • Baloney by Rico_Suave (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:12AM
  • Re:College students are pathological liars by Rico_Suave (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:28AM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by seinfeldet (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @02:32PM
  • We took a survey.... by gamorck (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:59AM
  • Existance of copyright by Kragma (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:56AM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by extar-bags (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:14AM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by aslan (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:06AM
  • Re:Hmm by yahwey (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:34AM
  • Blessed be, ye hackers by spankfish (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:13AM
  • How it is with any other product by spankfish (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:31AM
  • Re:Hmm by xigxag (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:35PM
  • Re:One fine day by Chops (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @02:33PM
  • So how many of you "buy culture"? by LoonXTall (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @12:20PM
  • Re:Hmm by Golias (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:10PM
  • Re:Hmm by Golias (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @11:20AM
  • I can certainly live without Napster by begonia (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:36AM
  • Re:Hmm by John Betonschaar (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:12AM
  • Re:5.5+ hours per cd? by SomeOtherGuy (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:56PM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by Suppafly (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @04:19PM
  • Re:F the RIAA by Suppafly (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @07:13PM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by Suppafly (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @07:28PM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by God! Awful (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @05:07AM
  • Thinking outside the box. by God! Awful (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @03:37AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by CyberKnet (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:11PM
  • Re:For how long? by hyperstation (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:15AM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by bluesninja (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:06AM
  • Still waiting for you to "share" your books Katz by TheOutlawTorn (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:12AM
  • Grog... not... understand... by TimboJones (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:32AM
  • Compact Disc R.I.P. 1983-2001 by infofreako (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:24AM
  • Re:Honor system doesn't work by Ummite (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @02:13PM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by core10k (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:05PM
  • Dude! It's not *our* music! by TheDarkener (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:06PM
  • Re:very true by arnie_apesacrappin (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:59AM
  • College Student by Putz19 (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:48AM
  • Re:Your logic doesn't change anything... by JPelzer (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:12AM
  • Re:Nice Stats...if only and its still STEALING by dh003i (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:19PM
  • Re:give it up by dh003i (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:51PM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by Nezalhualixtlan (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:49AM
  • Re:The true fear by marcop (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:04AM
  • Re:The true fear by marcop (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:32AM
  • why believe collidge stoodints? by pezpunk (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:59AM
  • Neat... by VivianC (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:53AM
  • Where does the money come from? by micromoog (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:19AM
  • Tommy Hilfiger knows: people steal stuff they like by tenzig_112 (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:03AM
  • Re:I hate marketing! by Chris-en-topper (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @05:21AM
  • Napster cannot possibly increase record sales! by Chris-en-topper (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @06:36AM
  • Re:Napster cannot possibly increase record sales! by Chris-en-topper (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @05:47PM
  • Re:Well, duh by Chris-en-topper (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @03:15AM
  • Steve Albini Ignores the Math by Chris-en-topper (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @03:58AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by Chris-en-topper (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @04:12AM
  • Re:My experiance by Technician (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:16PM
  • Wow. Big surprise. by DreamingReal (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:57AM
  • Your logic doesn't change anything... by dynamo_mikey (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:21AM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by Aix (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:28AM
  • never mind the bollocks... by h4x0r-3l337 (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @05:14AM
  • Re:I hate marketing! by cosmosis (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:32AM
  • I hate marketing! by cosmosis (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:59AM
  • Re:Napster cannot possibly increase record sales! by cosmosis (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @07:46AM
  • according to by canning (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:43AM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by jrockway (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:23PM
  • Because he hasn't payed BT.... by KGraci (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re: Capitalism by litui (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:42AM
  • Re:Hmm by litui (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:25AM
  • Re: Fairtunes.com by litui (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:26PM
  • Re:How it is with any other product by xenocidex (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:01AM
  • Stealing? by xenocidex (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:21AM
  • I try before I buy! by NineNine (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:37AM
  • Re:Short-sighted by Dixieland (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @04:48AM
  • Re:I hate marketing! by Dixieland (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @04:52AM
  • Re:No proof here by AlgUSF (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:00PM
  • Re:the reason for p2p fs: by AlgUSF (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:33AM
  • Napster by AlgUSF (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:25AM
  • Re:shite by AlgUSF (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:28AM
  • Compare to TicketMaster by Baconator (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:46AM
  • If you download what you don't own your a pirate by Shivetya (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:25AM
  • Re:Short-sighted by Jason_Knx (Score:1) Tuesday January 11 2000, @04:05AM
  • Come again, Jon? by Mr_Tom (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:01AM
  • File Sharing by hawaiianshirt (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:58AM
  • napster and artist compensation by rebelcool (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:53AM
  • Re:Communism by Scratchplate (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @01:47AM
  • napster by mackermacker (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:44AM
  • Re:Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc by Lede Singer (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:22AM
  • Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc by Lede Singer (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:10AM
  • A rose by any other name... by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:02AM
  • Re:I have bought MORE sinse Napster !!!!! Get it?? by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:10AM
  • Re:Tommy Hilfiger knows: people steal stuff they l by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:29AM
  • Re:Donīt be a Hypocrite by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:42PM
  • Re:More theives justify criminal behavior. by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:51PM
  • Re:A rose by any other name... by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:54PM
  • More theives justify criminal behavior. by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:40AM
  • A new low in justifying criminal behavior. by FatHogByTheAss (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:27AM
  • I give my CDs away free by gensemer (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:54PM
  • Whee! If *that's* not a plug op... by absterge (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:58AM
  • Hypermarketing Strikes (out) Again. by Blain (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:23AM
  • Re:Lies, damn lies... by Schnedt Microne (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:08AM
  • Re:Short-sighted by Schnedt Microne (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:31AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by javert (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:38PM
  • Music vs Movies by TheWhiteOtaku (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @02:19PM
  • Re:A rose by any other name... by okmar (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:50PM
  • Re:If you download what you don't own your a pirat by okmar (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @05:57PM
  • Re:If you download what you don't own your a pirat by okmar (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:35PM
  • Re:If you download what you don't own your a pirat by okmar (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:36AM
  • The true fear & More by Voira (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:43AM
  • Re:Mightn't the figures be skewed? by Lover's Arrival, The (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:20AM
  • Napster Proof? by Biff Grande (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:04AM
  • Re:Short-sighted by MaximDiscord (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:21PM
  • Re:Not for long. by SpatchMonkey (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:14AM
  • Re:give it up by SpatchMonkey (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:28AM
  • I can only agree with this TOTALLY. by SpamMan371 (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:12AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by Terz (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:53AM
  • The by ZeropaidCrew (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:31AM
  • Re:give it up by dachshund (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:21AM
  • Re:Early downfall? by dachshund (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:48AM
  • Re:Donīt be a Hypocrite by Tintelpe (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:28AM
  • Sad Old Ideas by fnord_hunter (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:58PM
  • Diversity is the enemy of monopoly by JudasTrust (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:22PM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by Draxxus (Score:1) Sunday January 02 2000, @05:22PM
  • Napster = kill Music Industry +Liberate Artists by PeerEvangelist (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @01:50AM
  • Better copyright law! by Nathan99 (Score:1) Monday January 03 2000, @06:08AM
  • Short sighted or self sighted? by Elrod67 (Score:1) Tuesday January 04 2000, @02:46AM
  • Re:Communism by Elrod67 (Score:1) Friday January 07 2000, @12:07PM
  • Re:Napster Proof? by Baker (Score:1) Thursday January 06 2000, @05:08AM
  • Re:Napster by spiffo (Score:1) Saturday January 08 2000, @12:49PM
  • Re:If you download what you don't own your a pirat by spiffo (Score:1) Saturday January 08 2000, @12:58PM
  • Re:Short-sighted by fireburst (Score:1) Tuesday January 11 2000, @02:53AM
  • Re:An issue of control by fireburst (Score:1) Tuesday January 11 2000, @12:39PM
  • Re:Nice Stats...if only and its still STEALING by fireburst (Score:1) Tuesday January 11 2000, @12:59PM
  • Re:give it up (Yes and No) by fireburst (Score:1) Tuesday January 11 2000, @02:06PM
  • Burning for advanced by fireburst (Score:1) Tuesday January 11 2000, @02:14PM
  • Re:Napster cannot possibly increase record sales! by TheBlackMoon (Score:1) Wednesday January 12 2000, @03:39PM
  • Napster could have been a great marketing tool by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:50AM
  • Ugh. by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:59AM
  • Oh bollocks... by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:More theives justify criminal behavior. by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:59PM
  • Re:If you download what you don't own your a pirat by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:42AM
  • Silly man blues pts. 257 and 258 (continued) by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:46PM
  • Re:Hmm by Danse (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:30AM
  • Re:Hmm by Danse (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:41AM
  • Re:Hmm by Danse (Score:2) Monday January 03 2000, @10:15AM
  • Re:Existance of copyright by Danse (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:54PM
  • Necessities... by Danse (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:14AM
  • Re:give it up by mattdm (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:15AM
  • Re:give it up by mattdm (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:16AM
  • Re:Hmm by dentin (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:02AM
  • Re:Mightn't the figures be skewed? by DAldredge (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:17AM
  • Oh Yeah, BTW Jon... by lambda (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:58AM
  • I have bought MORE sinse Napster !!!!! Get it??? by gelfling (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:28AM
  • Re:A new low in justifying criminal behavior. by gelfling (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @03:55PM
  • Lots of things are illegal but not wrong. by gelfling (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:06AM
  • Re:Hmm by garcia (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:11AM
  • Honor system doesn't work by ch-chuck (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:02AM
  • Well, duh! by rnturn (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:52AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by FallLine (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:51AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by FallLine (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:37AM
  • Lies, damn lies... by sterno (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:13AM
  • very true by austad (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:31AM
  • Re:let's pick your argument apart. by Shotgun (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:28AM
  • Re:No proof here by LetterRip (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @01:37PM
  • F the RIAA by segmond (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @11:54AM
  • I was excited, but then I saw the author's name by Rader (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:56AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by Rader (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:09AM
  • Re:The true fear by FeeDBaCK (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:07AM
  • Marketing is mistaken... by AhNewBis (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:35AM
  • Re:here's a study i'd like to see by Tackhead (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:17AM
  • Re:Not for long. by Tackhead (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:25AM
  • Re:Lies, damn lies... by Tackhead (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:29AM
  • More likely to spend money by styopa (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:00AM
  • Re:Nice Stats...if only and its still STEALING by radja (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:55PM
  • amazing by konstant (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:18AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by Kintanon (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:03AM
  • Yet more thieves (sp) justify criminal behavior! by anonymous cowerd (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @04:26PM
  • File Sharing Sparks Interest by foondog (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:53AM
  • Re:Hmm by donutello (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:41AM
  • Re:Hmm by donutello (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @02:54PM
  • Re:Napster could have been a great marketing tool by NTSwerver (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:58AM
  • Re:Hmm by VAXman (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:17AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by VAXman (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:24AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by VAXman (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @10:30AM
  • Re:Hmm by VAXman (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:39PM
  • Most ironic two sentances in a row by catseye_95051 (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:12PM
  • Terribly Unscientific and Meaningless by catseye_95051 (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:17PM
  • It's not the money. It's the ease of use. by Animats (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @09:06PM
  • This is fantastic but it won't matter. by prisoner (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:54AM
  • Re:give it up (Yes and No) by Wraithlyn (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:12PM
  • Why can't Katz create hyperlinks? by pjrc (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:19AM
  • Re:The true fear by swm (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @12:10PM
  • say say say what you want... by Golias (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:58AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by CyberKnet (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:00AM
  • That's their story by sulli (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:11AM
  • Re:Hmm by mobiGeek (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:59AM
  • This isn't new by graveyhead (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:04AM
  • Re:Musician's Associations by wmulvihillDxR (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:12AM
  • Quips and Quibbles by AstynaxX (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:03AM
  • Re:Hmm by Aix (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:42AM
  • don't trust surveys by Dr. Awktagon (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:56AM
  • Re:Hmm - Uh your analogy is stupid by Shivetya (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @08:09AM
  • Nice Stats...if only and its still STEALING by ComplexPower (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @05:48PM
  • A true story about file-sharing by Bill Fuckin' Gates (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @07:20AM
  • Mightn't the figures be skewed? by Lover's Arrival, The (Score:2) Sunday January 02 2000, @06:57AM
  • Ok, I admit it's a little inflamatory. However, ...

    Nearly two-thirds of the 1,135 college students surveyed say they download music as a way to sample music before buying it.


    Nearly two-thirds of those who downloaded music from the Web say that their search ended in a music purchase.


    Interestingly, reports American Demographics, the Jupiter Study of Napster users found that 71 percent of those who use the site said they were willing to pay to download an entire album.


    Most of these are pretty old (if I recall correctly), but these are all merely claims. Some might be lies. Some might be wishful thinking. Others may simply forget to pay. All certainly value napster and don't want to see if regulated out of existence...so we can assume that they'd want to defend it. Put simply, you can't simply trust this data alone as the last word.

    Jupiter Research says it found that 45 per cent of online music fans are more likely to have increased their music purchases than online fans who don't use Napster.
    This is the only potentially worthwhile piece of information, but I'd want more information before I really swallow it whole. I question how the data was gatheredm, in what context, and I question what it really means. For instance, if the general trend due to economic up turn is an increased purchasing of music, it would make sense for music fans (which tend to be napster users) to increase their music purchases more than non-napster users--even if their purchases are actually LESS due to the demand that napster sates. Furthermore, this does not address the question of what will happen once (or if) napster and clones become efficient at finding flawless copies of music, or once mp3 players become cheap and improve in quality.

    But in a Greenfield Online survey of 5,200 online music shoppers, nearly 70 per cent say that they have not paid -- and will not pay -- for digital music downloads. This suggests that subscription-based services may be more likely and successful than a per-song fee system.

    This potentially revolutionary model for marketing culture is about to be dismantled by the new partnership between Napster and Bertelsmann, which is giving the file-sharing site more than $50 million to develop software that will charge users for music. Bertelsmann says it will keep a part of Napster "free," but watch for yourself to see how quickly it shrinks.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this first bit of data, that 70% of shoppers have not, and will not, pay for online music terribly relevant to what Bertelsmann is doing? Katz seems to say that people are only willing to pay for a subscription service, yet any attempt to push for such a thing by the industry is met with extreme hostility.

    Anyways, I have my doubts from my own experience with mp3s and with others I know. I've simply seen and known far too many people that have reduced or stopped purchasing CDs entirely due to Napster. Others I know would stop, if they could afford a decent mp3 player, or had a faster connection, or knew how to use these services better, etc.

  • Re:The true fear (Score:3)

    by sargon (14799) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:31AM (#1416374)
    I disagree; I think the RIAA is concerned about both. The RIAA is built on greed, power, and paranoia. It will fight to the bitter end to maintain its distribution power and maintain glowing sales figures. It will question the results of these surveys just as Slashdotters have, it will come to a similar conclusion, and it will then use that conclusion to justify its own war against Napster and Napster's offspring.

    I wouldn't be surprised to find that RIAA people read Slashdot in their efforts to come up with ideas to use in its fight. It makes sense: Slashdotters, as a whole, are more insightful than RIAA people. Slashdotters have a clue; the same can't be said of the RIAA, which continues to wear blinders and refuses to come up better ideas for the future.

    Unfortunately, the same can be said of many other industries today. Take the telecom industry, for example....

  • Not for long. (Score:3)

    by brad.hill (21936) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:07AM (#1416375)
    For now, we buy music on CD that we found on Napster. This is because the CD is a much more convenient format for most of us. We have CD players in our cars, in our homes, as walkman style devices, our friends have CD players, and we can physically take the disks with us easily to transfer from player to player.

    In a few years, when digital audio players (MP3 or ogg or whatever) are completely ubiquitious and all connected to the network, I don't think many of us will still be buying CDs.

    That's what the record companies are afraid of. The lifespan of CDs as the most convenient form for music storage is limited. It's already over for the hardest of the hard core geeks.

    While this observation is legit, and should strike terror into the RIAA's heart, it should also be a lesson in how to combat it. Convenience is king and their cludgy protection schemes that make it a pain in the ass for customers to access their music JUST WON'T WORK. They need to make it easy. People love easy, people will pay for easy.

  • No proof here (Score:3)

    by Shotgun (30919) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:34AM (#1416376)
    You're point that the execs are dunderheads for their stance is misguided because you refuse to see where they are standing. You cannot defeat an enemy until you understand what they are fighting.

    Nearly two-thirds of the 1,135 college students surveyed say they download music as a way to sample music before buying it. The proliferation of online music is introducing consumes to artists they don't know, in almost precisely the same way department stores offer samples of food, perfume and other retail items. A survey by Yankelovich Partners for the Digital Media Association found that about half the music fans in the U.S. turn to look for artists they can't or don't hear in other venues, like radio. Nearly two-thirds of those who downloaded music from the Web say that their search ended in a music purchase. Music labels should have been donating money to Napster users, not threatening to sue them and chase the site off of college campuses.

    Here you display your complete lack of the concept of how the big industry music moguls use the limited market for gain. They do not see expanded consumer choice as a way to make money, they see it as a burden of expanded inventory maintainance. Their ideal world would consist of a populace that had exactly one CD to choose from. This would give them only one title and artist to maintain and promote. For the execs more consumer choice only adds up to more discount bin titles as the fads come and go. Their goal is to limit choice to a few 'superstars' (ie, overpromoted mediocre artist).

    And the much-libeled Napster users are dedicated music buyers, quick to reach for their wallets. Jupiter Research says it found that 45 per cent of online music fans are more likely to have increased their music purchases than online fans who don't use Napster.

    Meanwhile 55% of online fans who used Napster decreased their purchases to zero?

    The Jupiter study of Napster users found that 71 percent of users say they're willing to pay to download an entire album.

    They also said that they were willing to pay for a trip to Mars; however, none showed the color of their money. My point is that a survey of what people claim they are willing to do is completely meaningless and no marketing exec worth his salt pays any attention to such surveys.

    Interestingly, reports American Demographics, the Jupiter Study of Napster users found that 71 percent of those who use the site said they were willing to pay to download an entire album. But in a Greenfield Online survey of 5,200 online music shoppers, nearly 70 per cent say that they have not paid -- and will not pay -- for digital music downloads.

    And there is the real proof. People will say that they will pay, but when it comes to actually putting the cash on the table...

    This suggests that subscription-based services may be more likely and successful than a per-song fee system.

    It means no such thing. It suggests that people want something for free and that they are quicker to lie about their willingness to pay than they are to produce their money.

    Face it, Jon, et. al. The music industry execs have had a nice ride over the last few decades. New technologies have a habit of disrupting the ride, causing them to spill their champagne. While the new technologies often enable huge new markets, they very often cause a depression in existing markets. Someone makes it big in the new market, but that someone isn't necessarily the same people who are big in the market that is being disrupted.

    New media provides people with the ability to communicate one-to-one the world over. Music execs are distributors who control the one-to-many communication pipelines. Their job is to control who talks to who. Change the pipleline and you change the job that they know and the medium they are able to manipulate. The Net not only changes but removes the exclusivity of the one-to-many pipeline altogether, leaving the execs out in the cold. We know that, and they know that, so cut the bullshit about how they should accept the changes with open arms. They would be fools to do so.

    The music industry is on shaky ground that will quickly disappear into an ocean of one-to-one communciation. I won't be throwing out a life-preserver, but I also won't be claiming that they aren't drowning. (Sink, you bastards, SINK!!)

  • by TurboJustin (34296) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:40AM (#1416377) Homepage
    What you (and most others on this post) don't seem to understand is that this is *already* how it works. The Backstreet boys share their revenue with Yanni, and Yanni shares his pitiful revenue with Britney Spears. Organizations such as ASCAP and BMI control distribution of royalties for music, whether you buy a CD or hear it on the radio or see a video on TV. Radio stations, clubs, MTV, etc.. all pay a blanket amount to ASCAP and BMI (both, regardless of whose music they play more of) and it is "fairly" distributed among the artists based on who is at the top of the charts this month. If you're very small, and only have a couple of published songs that noone ever plays, you may get specific payments (i.e. my dad had a song that was played at the '86 (?) olympics in LA, and he got a small check for it). This makes a lot of sense for handling digital distribution, because it's about as arbitrary as a jukebox or radio station might be.. keep stats on which songs are downloaded most and pay those artists.. bah-da-bing, bah-da-boom :)
  • by johnrpenner (40054) on Sunday January 02 2000, @08:42AM (#1416378) Homepage

    > Okay, but picture this: I create a few songs. I join the pool, but I do
    > not release a cd. I generate *NO* profit for the system, I just make music
    > available for download through the system. If everyone downloads my
    > digital music then I am theoretically entitled to a large portion of the
    > money pool when I have contributed none through actual physical sales. Is
    > there some aspect that I have missed to prevent this sort of situation?

    yes - any distributor out there that wants to can take a copy
    of your music. make up some posters, CDs, some fancy packaging
    that will make it appeal as a product to your fans.

    THEN -- every time they sell a CD (with your, and other stuff on it),
    they pay back a percentage into the musician's pool. that musicians
    pool sends micropayments into your bank account based on how many
    people downloaded your song for free.

    the following has to be worked out by those involved - change it
    as necessary -- but the basic idea is this: by having your song downloaded
    for free, you would have to register an email address -- a place to make
    micropayments to -- such that any downloads made in your name get registered
    into the 'payment pie' -- which is determined by the number of 'napster'
    downloads (doesn't really matter if its napster or something else - that
    can be any download service that is willing to participate in this).

  • by FeeDBaCK (42286) on Sunday January 02 2000, @09:39AM (#1416379) Homepage
    However the car dealership analogy is just inane. You already have your test drive, its called RADIO.

    RIIGHT... So you are telling me that I am going to hear songs from independant artist on the radio. I live in a very religious part of the USA. Here, music is only played on the radio if the "moral majority" approves of it. You can guess what the radio is like here. As a result of this, I am not exposed to *any* music that I deem worth *my* dollar on the radio.


    I personally think that the ability to test drive a CD is would be a great thing. Maybe somebody should start up a music store with this idea in mind.

    There is a store here in town that does exactly this. They have a system which uses 320kbps mp3 files and headphones to allow you to listen to any song on any CD in the store. They even have the music sorted by ID3 tag, so it is easily searchable. Needless to say, this store is the *only* place I go to buy a CD. They also play random songs from the mp3 archive in the store, with a scrolling screen to show the Artist's name, CD title, song title, and track number. I have actually purchased quite a few CDs just because I heard a song from it played in the store.

  • by ktakki (64573) on Sunday January 02 2000, @09:02AM (#1416380) Homepage Journal

    What you (and most others on this post) don't seem to understand is that this is *already* how it works. The Backstreet boys share their revenue with Yanni, and Yanni shares his pitiful revenue with Britney Spears. Organizations such as ASCAP and BMI control distribution of royalties for music, whether you buy a CD or hear it on the radio or see a video on TV. Radio stations, clubs, MTV, etc.. all pay a blanket amount to ASCAP and BMI (both, regardless of whose music they play more of) and it is "fairly" distributed among the artists based on who is at the top of the charts this month.


    Nope. Britney and the Backdoor Boys don't see a penny from BMI or ASCAP unless they have a writing credit. Mike Martin gets the performance royalties for these artists (as writer and producer for these two "acts").

    If someone covers a Britney or Backdoor song (gag!), Mike Martin still gets the dosh.

    What artists get are mechanical royalties, based on the number of shiny little discs sold (it was 37 1/2 cents/side IIRC), along with a percentage of sales from the record company.

    Calling all Karma Whores: will someone please post the links for "Courtney Does the Math" and the Steve Albini rant that's based on?

    k.
    --
    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people
    are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
  • by Dervak (94063) on Sunday January 02 2000, @09:26AM (#1416381)

    we're all pirates and doing fairly illegal stuff

    Dont you presume to speak for me. Im not a pirate. I have never attacked any shipping. However, I do perform unauthorized copying from time to time. And I dont like Newspeak.

    not to say that the RIAA is doing stuff fairly, but they are doing it legally.

    So what? Until the 1860s it was perfectly legal to own slaves in many American states. Legal!=Right and Illegal!=Wrong.

    i'll admit. i've bought 1 new cd in the part 5 months, while i've burned 200 high quality cds from mp3's with a bitrate for 192 or higher that I downloaded from Napster. I download the mp3s, burn the full cd's, then delete the mp3s to make room for more. I use amazon's recommendation system to pick out which cd I want next based on whether I like the one I just downloaded or not.

    Cool for you. But if you truly like some of that music, you really should think about supporting that artist, no?

    Don't tell me what we're doing is legal. It isn't, and shouldn't be. But I do it anyway because I love music but detest paying $18/cd

    Has anyone else noticed this? Every time this subject is discussed on /. the people, who by their own admission copy a lot and never buy the CD, are people who readily say what they are doing is wrong and use the loathsome word "pirating"?

    Have you no honor? Im not saying youll have to agree with all laws, or obey them for that matter if you disagree, but you should at least be man or woman enough to follow your own convictions. If you, as you say, think unauthorized copying is wrong, dont do it then. Pay those $18 or go without. At the very least, dont be a hypocrite!

    Personally, I think it is an unalienable Right of any man, woman and child to copy any and all released information without any restriction. On the other hand, it is also our solemn Duty to support the artists that we like. I follow my ethics - I copy, and I support.

    /Dervak

  • by tensionboy (115662) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:03AM (#1416382)
    recorded music purchases from students at college campuses that have banned "napster" programs vs. recorded music purchases from students at colleges that haven't banned it.
  • In the history of music sales, before Jan 1, 2000, only two albums ever sold 1 million or more copies in their first week of sales. In the year 2000 alone, five albums sold 1 million plus in their first week. It makes me wonder if stockholders should start the class action lawsuits; properly embracing online sales would definately 'enhance shareholder value.' Crushing it, though, probably hurts the bottom line, in so many ways.
  • by Flat5 (207129) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:19AM (#1416384)
    When will people understand that it doesn't matter if Napster users are all angels (and they're not, btw). It doesn't matter if they go out and buy 20 albums for every song they download. It doesn't matter if Napster generates more revenue. It doesn't matter if Napster is their biggest break since the microphone.

    What matters is that Napster has removed the artist's say in what happens to their music. If artists want to be stubborn and miss this "great opportunity," that's their right, and it ought to be respected. Pretty simple.

    Flat
  • Well, duh (Score:4)

    by Phaid (938) on Sunday January 02 2000, @06:51AM (#1416385) Homepage
    Big Media has always been quick to shoot itself in the foot. They also said that the VCR would be the end of the film industry. Today's statistics don't quite agree with that viewpoint.

    Just because a medium can be used to copy their product, doesn't mean it won't also increase their sales to the point that the lost revenue due to copying is offset a hundred times by the gains in sales.

    What's it matter if two people run around with bootlegged copies of oh say a Lard album, when twenty people downloaded "The Power of Lard!", liked it, then ran over to Alternative Tentacles' website or Amazon.com and ordered their CD?

    Thieves! Thieves and Liars! Hypocrites and Bastards!
  • by Danse (1026) on Sunday January 02 2000, @10:58AM (#1416386)

    Calling all Karma Whores: will someone please post the links for "Courtney Does the Math" and the Steve Albini rant that's based on?

    Here ya go:

    Steve Albini's rant [negativland.com]

    Courtney Love Does the Math [salon.com]

  • Why?! (Score:4)

    by tomcrooze (33802) on Sunday January 02 2000, @06:56AM (#1416387) Homepage
    This survey was of college students! If you survey them, how many of these students would really say "oh, of course, I bought the music after I downloaded it"? Slim to none. None if they have a CD-writer. There simply is no way that this survey was accurate. Go to American Demographics [demographics.com] to find out yourself.

    And oh, yeah. Don't believe what you read about yourself.

    *feeling pretty stupid*
    Isn't this reserved for April Fool's?

  • give it up (Score:4)

    by kootch (81702) on Sunday January 02 2000, @07:09AM (#1416388) Homepage
    we're all pirates and doing fairly illegal stuff

    not to say that the RIAA is doing stuff fairly, but they are doing it legally.

    i'll admit. i've bought 1 new cd in the part 5 months, while i've burned 200 high quality cds from mp3's with a bitrate for 192 or higher that I downloaded from Napster. I download the mp3s, burn the full cd's, then delete the mp3s to make room for more. I use amazon's recommendation system to pick out which cd I want next based on whether I like the one I just downloaded or not.

    I bought that 1 cd because I couldn't find it on napster and I had $10 off at BN.com while I was buying books.

    Don't tell me what we're doing is legal. It isn't, and shouldn't be. But I do it anyway because I love music but detest paying $18/cd
  • The true fear (Score:4)

    by SuperguyA1 (90398) on Sunday January 02 2000, @06:56AM (#1416389) Homepage
    I believe that the recording industry isn't woried about losing record sales, they're woried about losing their monopoly on distribution. A monopoly is much more valuable than the actual CD's.
  • Re:College Student (Score:4)

    by VAXman (96870) on Sunday January 02 2000, @10:44AM (#1416390)
    Since that has happened I have not bought one new CD(thats about 1 year now). I dont want to buy a whole CD for one song, I want to Download other Songs by an artist and hear the Songs in FULL before I waste $12-$16 on a CD that cost MAYBE $5 to make.

    Your first step is to listen to something else besides Top 40 pop music (the only kind of music which has one good song per album).
  • Re:Well, duh (Score:4)

    by bobbv (162542) on Sunday January 02 2000, @08:56AM (#1416391)
    Big Media has always been quick to shoot itself in the foot. They also said that the VCR would be the end of the film industry. Today's statistics don't quite agree with that viewpoint.

    When I was in college in the late 80s, I was in a nonprofit student film cooperative. VCRs may not have affected the big Hollywood film industry, but it definitely affected the independent film distribution world. Whereas in 1986 we could show a different film every night and make money, by 1990 we were down to one film per week. That was completely because VCRs had gotten cheap enough that college students could afford them. And we weren't the only ones. The independent "art" film theaters in town suffered, too. One of the three closed (it's reopened since, but only because Urban Outfitters rents the space where the two large street-level screens used to be) and another switched formats several times before closing a couple of years ago. My film coop closed in 1996 after struggling and loosing money for most of the 90s.

    I'm not saying that VCRs are evil or that the film industry was right in fearing them--I agree that technological change should not be resisted, but adjusted to--just that the transition to VCRs was not completely smooth or "victimless."

    (And, tangentially, it wasn't just the coops and movie theaters that suffered. Many of the movies we showed were not--and are not--available on tape. We often rented prints directly from the filmmakers, so when we went under, so did a source of independent film income.)

  • by SomeOtherGuy (179082) on Sunday January 02 2000, @10:34AM (#1416392) Journal
    Ok. This guy has a point. And I did try this out the other day:
    A - Find a CD I want.
    B - Hunt Napster for songs from that CD.
    C - Attempt to download said songs (preferablly from people with connections faster than my 300bps BBS days).
    D - After finally putting together the whole album..(A task I can only compare to finishing my Original Star Wars IV "in the box" figure set...Unless you are looking for top 40...which you could just hit hear on the radio anyway) Determine if the songs are actually "whole" songs and not snippets of downloads gone bad in a previous life.
    E - Convert to WAV files
    F - Burn to CDR

    Time spent hunting: 1+ hours
    Time spent dload (T1): 1+ hours
    Time spent re-dload (people think it's neat to cancel a request 3 megs in: 1+ hours
    Time spent quality check: 45 mins (listen to each song)
    Time spent convert and burn: 45 mins


    Total time: 5.5+ hours for 1 CD (I think my time is a little more valuable than that....I will stick to buying them the old fashioned way thank you...Unless it is OOP or something)

  • by johnrpenner (40054) on Sunday January 02 2000, @06:54AM (#1416393) Homepage

    --| piracy or copyright? the third solution |---

    - copyright exists to ensure musicians get paid.
    - the other side is that once an artist produces something,
    it goes beyond them and many benefit.
    - between consumers and producers now stands record companies
    - but paying artists is only a step on the way to gaining profit.
    in practice, many musicians (who play instruments) starve, while
    marketing bimbos (spice girls) thrive - this is wrong.

    - a fundemental qualitative difference between physical and
    electronic goods is - if i have an apple and give you an apple,
    i no longer have an apple; but if i have an idea and give you an idea,
    we BOTH have an idea. therefore you cannot treat electronic things as
    if they were actually physical goods, because they aren't!

    - still, you must compensate producers of the original bits.
    so what to do?

    > MUSICIANS ASSOCIATIONS:

    - the physical distributors and merchandisers pay into the musician's
    pool that pays and feeds the musicians.
    - the musicians pool distributes it equitably among its active producers.
    - from the pool comesmore new music. which is given away for free.
    unlimited digital copies for everyone, never again a dime paid for
    anything that's just DATA.
    - distributors get fresh music, and sell and package more STUFF.
    - distributors pay back a percentage of sales back into the pool.
    - so it comes back and feeds itelf (the most important part).

    > RESULTS:

    - so all software is free - you get mindshare from it.
    - but if you make a physical whose value lies on the free music on it,
    then a percentage goes back.
    - but the artist is not paid direct - it goes to the musician's pool,
    which doles out shares each month by percentage of overall downloads
    from a service such as Napster.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~johnrpenner/Articles/ St einer-Social.html

    --

    The Strength of the Wolf is the Pack;
    and the Strength of the Pack is the Wolf.
    (Rudyard Kipling)