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Tips for Teaching Seniors About the Internet?

Posted by Cliff on Sat Jun 16, 2001 03:10 PM
from the helping-the-earlier-generations-along dept.
ColGraff asks: "I'm spending this summer teaching senior citizens how to use the Internet - specifically, email and the world wide web, so how do I teach them in a way that will meet their needs in the best way possible? Some of these people have no computer experience and I don't know if should I plunge right into web browsers (while filling in knowledge gaps as needed) or give background info first? How do you teach someone to use a mouse effectively? (Sure, it seems simple, but think about it a minute. How do you know how far to move a mouse? How fast to double-click?). What about tips on using search engines, and how to sort the wheat from the chaff? Finally, what else should I teach? Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?"
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  • show them GNU/Linux by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:19AM
  • lesson 1: it won't explode by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:47AM
  • A true, yet disgusting story by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:28PM
  • Seriously this is how to teach them. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:12PM
  • Re:Consistency by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:40AM
  • Based on my teaching experience, I would suggest . by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:16PM
  • by Tony Shepps (333) on Saturday June 16 2001, @01:08PM (#146721) Homepage
    If you're part of a senior center, library, or nursing home, a non-profit organization called Generations on Line [generationsonline.com] has just finished its pilot and officially launched a few months ago.

    These folks have done a lot of the handiwork in simplifying the net for elders. They've put together materials and a "starter" site that has been specifically oriented to be the "training wheels" for the elderly. The site is fully tested with actual elders and includes large type everywhere, scaled for different monitor sizes; a web-based email with all of the confusing elements yanked out; a search engine interface with all of the confusing elements yanked out; and a simple message area where elders talk about things with schoolchildren.

    It's in place or pending at several hundred sites and is expanding. It was just written about in Thursday's Philadelphia Inquirer [philly.com].

  • They grew up in different world... by deno (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:00PM
  • by nathanh (1214) on Saturday June 16 2001, @03:17PM (#146723) Homepage
    Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?"

    There's only one thing worth remembering. The elderly aren't dumb. In many cases the elderly are incredibly intelligent: the stupid ones will have wiped themselves out somehow before making it to retirement.

    The elderly simply won't be familiar with the technology. It probably took you several months before a mouse became "obvious". So keep in mind that you're teaching INTELLIGENT people who are UNFAMILIAR with the technology.

    There's an organisation with the express aim of teaching the elderly. It's the University of the Third Age (U3A). There are resources on the Internet and there will almost certainly be U3A groups within your local area.

  • by cthompso (2283) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:26AM (#146724)
    I taught a retired woman how to use the mouse by putting my hand over hers on the mouse, and moving it around, and clicking on things. After about 30 seconds, she had it down. So try that, as weird as it sounds (it's like the way they teach people how to swing a golf club). The obvious other thing is make Google their home page, if it's their computer. Google is just awesome, as we all know. If they're being ornery, though, tell 'em to use Microsoft-based "AskJeeeves" with its oh-so-wonderful results, and that's punishment enough ;)
  • Consistency (Score:5)

    by Uruk (4907) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:16AM (#146725)
    Well, I think the elderly will learn computers just like everybody else does. By screwing around on them and doing random stuff.

    The main thing about the elderly and others who haven't learned computing yet is that they fear the complexity of the machines. If you show them that the user interface is designed to be consistent and helpful and not contrary and impossible, if you show them just a few cool things and what you did to get there, and if you convince them that they can learn it and that it's relatively simple once you've got some practice, then there's no problem.

    Essentially there's no difference between the elderly as a specific group learning computers than any other group. Teach them not to fear the computer, show them a few cool things, and then let them loose. That's how I learned computers, I'm betting that's how you learned computers, and that's probably the best way they can learn them too.

    It's the attitude that's important. If you try to learn going into the experience thinking that the machine is going to do everything it can to thwart you and that really it's a very difficult task, you'll fail. If you approach it with confidence, then it will be easy. Giving the confidence to approach the machine is your job more than actually teaching the mechanics is. If they have the confidence, the mechanics will teach themselves to the user.

  • Re:The mouse thing can be tricky. by general_re (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:06PM
  • by Cycon (11899) <steve [at] theProfessionalAmateur.com> on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:43AM (#146727) Homepage
    How do you teach someone to use a mouse effectively? (Sure, it seems simple, but think about it a minute. How do you know how far to move a mouse? How fast to double-click?)

    Showing someone how to play solitaire on a computer is a great way to help them learn basic mousing skills, while becoming comfortable with the idea of sitting in front of a computer. Pretty much everyone knows the rules behind the game, and it's easier to make the mental leap from playing cards to the graphics on the screen than understanding concepts such as "desktop" and "file", which are abstracted much further.

    Whenever I starting teaching someone who is new to computers, I try to make as many comparisons to real life as possible.

    For instance, when I explain about the different between RAM and a hard drive, I tell them to thing of the computer as an office desk. The "hard drive" is the file cabinet where everything is kept. The "RAM" is the top of the desk. They can work on as many files at the same time as they can spread out on the top of the desk. Once they run out of desktop space, they need to close up one file, stick it back in the drawer, file the next one, and lay it out again. I tell them that in computer terms this is "swapping", and that's what the computer is doing when it starts getting very slow and you can hear the hard drive making noises...

    --Cycon

  • Agreed . . . by SimplyCosmic (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:24PM
  • Experimentation by Monica (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:27PM
  • Re:ElderVision.Net was tackling this... by HamNRye (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:36PM
  • misread it... by austad (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:09PM
  • Re:Consistency (Score:3)

    by angst_ridden_hipster (23104) on Sunday June 17 2001, @10:43AM (#146732) Homepage Journal
    Consistency! Ah, therein lies the rub!

    My 88 year-old Grandmother wanted a computer "and the internet" for her 85th birthday. I foolishly went with an eMachine that seemed to be everything she wanted. Bad choice. Hardware problems have plagued us, and Win98 runs even worse on that machine than others.

    My Grandmother is a very intelligent woman. She was a medical doctor long before it was common to have women doctors. She understands using processes, doing lab work, scientific method, following recipes, etc. But she still has some difficulties. She's still quite sharp, has a reasonably good memory, and decent motor control.

    In any case, the big discovery about "intuitive user interfaces" is that they aren't. Why do you double-click on an icon on the desktop, single-click on a browser link, click and drag on a menu, and single-click on a toolbar? The inconsistencies are aggravating. Even if you try to break it down, you get completely tangled up: "when there's a little picture (icon), you double-click, except when it's in a toolbar. A toolbar is when all those little icons are at the top of a window. Well, yes, you can arrange all your desktop icons to be at the top of the window, but it's still not a toolbar." Etc.

    My overall findings are that:

    1. Coordination is a problem. Mouse control, click speed, etc, are difficult. You can compensate somewhat for this by changing mouse sensitivity and double-click rate.

    2. Resolution matters. After trying many combinations, I eventually got her set up on a 17" viewable monitor running at 640x480 resolution. Bletch, you say? But it makes those icons "bigger" and easier to hit. It actually helps a lot.

    3. Extensive written out procedures for dealing with common problems help, but don't solve the problem. When an unexpected error message pops up while following a procedure, the rest of it goes out the window.

    4. Playing around is helpful but can cause problems. Learning by trying things is great, but you do need someone who can undo the mess. One time, she accidently pulled the tool-bars out of MS Word. She went through the menus to try to bring them back, but was looking for "buttons" rather than toolbar, so she couldn't get them back. This led to randomly trying options in the Word prefs. It took me an hour to straighten everything back out.

    Still, it's remarkable to me how much of this stuff my grandmother gets. I hope that when I'm in my 80s, I'll still be able to figure out how to use the Home Defrobnicator to instavid the grandkids...
    bukra fil mish mish
    -
    Monitor the Web, or Track your site!
  • Been there, done that...some thoughts by Vrallis (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:40AM
  • Mousing can be tough for seniors... by cowboy junkie (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:52AM
  • The way to talk to them is... by pxpt (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @01:34AM
  • Elitism prevents good growth in our "fine" clubs. by ElvenKnight (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @09:40AM
  • Re:Consistency by elb (Score:1) Wednesday June 20 2001, @10:09AM
  • Re:Poor Trent Waddington by QuantumG (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:42AM
  • Re:Security Focus and Bugtraq by QuantumG (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:21PM
  • Security Focus and Bugtraq by QuantumG (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:15AM
  • by chrysalis (50680) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:58AM (#146741) Homepage
    I'm not pro-Macintosh, and I myself have only PC at home (ehm, Psion and Atari ST, too) .
    But lately, my father wanted to buy a computer to discover Internet, print photographs of my daughter, and do some word processing. I suggested him to buy an iMac.
    He's 60 years old, and he has absolutely no experience with computing (even using a tape recorder is difficult for him :)
    I had to configure the internet dial-up parameters, install Realplayer, and show him the basics of internet. What are search engines (I gave him only search engines in his native language, as he's english is very poor), how to save pictures, how to print them, how to read and send mail, how to launch the word processor, how to play a DVD. I also bought him a book (something like Macintosh for dummies) .
    Now he really enjoys his computer. It took about 1 month for him to be autonomous. Now he's still discovering things, but he doesn't need help from anyone any more.
    I'd still suggest an iMac for beginners. MacOS is easy to use. It's eye-candy. There are less viruses than in the Windows world. And for stability... well, sometimes it crashed. But it's doesn't stop working for no reason. Sometimes with Windows, after installing new software or after a crash, things are ceasing to work, and it's very difficult to fix (my Windows 2000 box doesn't work more than 2 minutes since I installed the DVD drivers, I don't know how to revert that) . So far, things like that never happened to him. His Macintosh is still running the default install with no problem so far.
    Another great thing about Macintosh hardware, especially iMacs : they aren't noisy. Older people (at least my mother) find noisy PC fans really annoying. iMacs are silents, especially when the hard disk is in standby. And a last great thing about Macintosh hardware : they are easy to plug. No need for a lot of cable, and this is also very good for older people.
  • Re:Consistency by diverman (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:55AM
  • Re:Consistency by theonetruekeebler (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @08:50AM
  • Taught my parents a year ago.... by gregm (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:42PM
  • Re:Solitaire.. seriously! by blackwizard (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:43PM
  • Re:Task-based learning by sparty (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @11:45AM
  • Get kids to teach 'em by Nevrar (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:14PM
  • Re:Elitism prevents good growth in our "fine" club by juno (Score:1) Monday June 18 2001, @02:51PM
  • Re:They're just students, after all... by dbarclay10 (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:59PM
  • Re:They're just students, after all... by dbarclay10 (Score:2) Sunday June 17 2001, @08:40AM
  • by dbarclay10 (70443) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:44AM (#146751)

    I'm spending this summer teaching senior citizens how to use the Internet - specifically, email and the world wide web

    Very commendable.

    Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?

    No. Elderly people don't speak some alien language. They don't have green blood. They're just students. Teach them like you'd teach any student. Some will be faster than others. Some might have poor eyesight. Some might not hear well. Some might be a lot smarter than you(generally speaking). Just teach them like you'd teach other people.

    I find analogies work best. Of course, you choose your analogies based on the audience. But that's an individual-student thing, not a generalization to be applied to differently-aged people.

    Capiche?

    Dave

    Barclay family motto:
    Aut agere aut mori.
    (Either action or death.)
  • by JEI (74025) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:23AM (#146752) Homepage
    I'm a high school student with too much going on this summer to get are real job, so I do computer work for people for $10/hr. In addition to fixing things when they break (windows), I also teach them things. Most of my clients are retired people who want to be able to do certain things. For example, scan pictures and email them, use voice recognition software b/c their arthritis makes typing a problem, etc. I've found that having them sit in the chair and do everything works best, me showing how to do something usually goes in one ear and out the other.

    As to you question, I would show them how to use (I assume) windows. Basic things, starting programs, closing them, using the start menu. Maybe deleting files. Use some kind of word processor as a demo for all this, so they can learn something useful, as well as how to use the OS. Show them how to start a web browser and basic things, like how to go forward/back, favorites, the history, etc.

    Just my $0.02
  • I can't say it enough by Tymanthius (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:35AM
  • Re:Consistency by kinko (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:39PM
  • Foundations by twos (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:35AM
  • Re:Consistency by Ghazgkull (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:31AM
  • Fear is the key by jabens (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @10:33PM
  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by treat (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @09:47PM
  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by _Ludwig (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:13PM
  • Re:ElderVision.Net was tackling this... by Flat Feet Pete (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:38AM
  • Re:Hold their hand, literally by Lorenzo Smythe (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @08:36AM
  • Font size is very important by lapse (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:19PM
  • The mouse thing can be tricky. by jdcook (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:39AM
  • Senior Summer School by johnbent (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:34PM
  • Re:Hold their hand, literally by Tungz10 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @07:39PM
  • Re:Some good points here... by Punto (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @07:45PM
  • Stress security! by andyring (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @07:34PM
  • by OmegaDan (101255) on Saturday June 16 2001, @12:47PM (#146768) Homepage
    I know I'm going to get modded down alot for this ... but someone needs to tell you what your up against.

    I live in an retirement town which poor seniors flock to, we basically have the worst of the worst. I can tell you from first hand that the elderly are largely intractable. This isn't to say there aren't elderly who can't learn -- but most simply can't.

    Theres several problems with the elderly and technology in general ...

    1 Its all new to them. The elderly are very good at staying away from new technology, so many will have absolutley no frame of refrence for using a computer. Case in point : my g/f's grandfather about 3 years ago came home absolutley extatic about this new thing called an "ATM" that "gives you money and you don't even have to go into the bank!" Her grandmother still refuses to use it. Many of these people will have never used a digital system of any type before.

    2 Abstraction, the elderly have difficult abstracting concepts. Try explaining to them that the internet is millions of computers by connected by all sorts of different things ... over their heads ... try explainig why an e-mail came back (and thus have to get into what mail servers are), just impossible. My own grandmother dosen't understand the difference between using her computer and using the internet.

    3 Most senior citizens formed their personalities and prefrences in their early 20's. For most of them, that was half a century ago. Brain plasticity (ability to learn new skills) decreases with age. If you learn a language before the age 14 it is stored in a different place in your brain then if you had started younger in your life. Some elderly are *incapable* of understanding computers.

    4 Lastly, many of the elderly are just assholes. My grandmother absoultley gets off on screaming and yelling at people. She looks FORWARD to it. This isn't just her, ever been to Arbys and see a 70 year old yell at some poor 16 year old until she's in tears?

    Anticdote : My grandmother has a street light on her property for which she is assessed a property tax of 40$ a year. The lighbulb went out on a SUNDAY NIGHT, and she called the city and left a scathing message to the tune of "I pay 40$ a year I want this thing fixed now!" ... she was absoutley livid that there was no one on a sunday night who would come fix her street light.

    -- my point is, many of the elderly have lived long and FUCKED up lives -- alot of them who were young during the depression era have alot of issues. Alot just have issues.

    5 Their sense of entitlement. The elderly are the greediest portion of the population -- they feel they are owed everything. Your gonna have people call you up and DEMAND help with something *RIGHT NOW*. How is your patience?

    -- now -- I've certainly painted a bad picture of the elderly here. There are of course some very kind and nice elderly people out there.

    So now I've listed the traits that will make them unable to learn, these are traits of folks who can learn :

    1. People who are reasonably affluent and it good health.
    2. People who own other technologies like microwave ovens, cd players, people who can work their vcrs (Seriously, if you can't work a VCR how could you ever use a computer)
    3. People who aren't scathing mad at the world (we have alot of those here).

    Lastly, I'd like to attack the MS propaganda that computers are "easy to use" and the capitalist-consumer-tripe that you have to have a computer to participate in society today.

    First off: Computers are not easy to use, they are easier to use then they used to be. MS's claim is that anyone can use their OS, bullshit. You know how many people there are who can't install a program or copy a file to a disk? "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, after that its all learned."

    Seconly: The media has tried VERY hard to make people think they MUST have a computer. Thats simply untrue. There are alot of people who simply shouldn't have computers -- and theres nothing wrong with that.

  • Re:Consistency by BerkeleyBull (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:48PM
  • teaching seniors... by thschmid (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:40PM
  • How to help someone use a computer by webdoyenne (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @06:09AM
  • The Best Way... by RoninM (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @12:45PM
  • Diversity among the elder generation by archmedes5 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:06PM
  • Assure them they can't break the machine by CyberLeader (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:11PM
  • by sgage (109086) on Saturday June 16 2001, @12:05PM (#146775)
    An important part of my consultancy is tutoring elderly people. The two most important points have been raised already: 1) Patience! It can take older folks a bit of time to wrap their brains around many computer concepts we take for granted. Sort of like it did for us in the beginning. At least those of us who started in the Radio Shack TRS-80/Commodore PET/Apple ][/ CPM era :-) 2) Fear. Many older folks are indeed afraid that they'll break something. They need to be reassured that experimentation is OK. And be ready to fix things :-)

    Other points: As we know, there is usually more than one way of doing things. It might be best to stick with one consistent way... e.g., maybe the main menu route. Then you can convince them that the toolbar buttons and keyboard shortcuts do exactly the same thing, somewhere down the line.

    Get them to write stuff down! All of my clients keep a special notebook for computer stuff. Make them write stuff down in some detail... cutting/copying and pasting seems to be a real bitch for some reason. The desktop metaphor is just similar enough to the "real world" to really be confusing to some folks.

    Get them comfortable with email right off the bat. This can get them nicely reconnected with their families in many cases, and plus makes it easier to support them.

    Make sure they understand the difference between the Internet and the Web and email and so forth. It's not as obvious as it seems! And it's fun to see the light go off when they figure out just what the Web is...

    If you're not into it, don't do it. I've worked with folks who have had very bad experiences at the hands of impatient, inarticulate jerks who made them feel stupid, and it takes some time and effort to work through it. This ain't rocket science, it's just a bit different from what they're used to.

    Which leads to my final point: Have some heart for these people - like them! Have some time to talk about non-computer stuff, etc. Find some points of contact. You will be so rewarded when they become adept computer jockeys! And even if they don't!

    - sgage

  • Gear it to them (but don't miss things out)! by nine9 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @08:34PM
  • Best book I've found by MrResistor (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @07:36PM
  • Re:Consistency by malfunct (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @10:06PM
  • It started out as a joke. by bendude (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @04:11PM
  • Re:Consistency by characterZer0 (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:32PM
  • The fact that... by BiggestPOS (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:20AM
  • DO NOT touch the keyboard or mouse. Ever! by follower-fillet (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @05:36PM
  • Teaching Search Engines by Lozzer (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @02:01PM
  • Re:Some Techniques... by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @10:53PM
  • Re:Linux is dying by WhiteWolf666 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @08:09PM
  • by John_Booty (149925) <johnbooty&bootyproject,org> on Saturday June 16 2001, @01:01PM (#146786) Homepage
    I my experience teaching older people and newbies about computers, I always find that it's worth it to start with the "basics"... ie, the concepts of windows (the windows on the screen, not Windows(tm), moving the mouse, etc.

    People sometimes get a little frustrated with slow progress at first (because it's a while before they can get to the "fun stuff") but I think it turns out to be well worth it.

    Also, I've noticed a sign that things aren't going well is when your "students" have to resort to rote memorization. For example, my mom writes down every single step I tell her. If I say "go to the File menu, and then pick Print" she has to write it down in excruciating detail, ie, "move mouse pointer to the word 'file', press left mouse button, move mouse down to word 'print', press left mous button, etc..."

    And she wonders why her progress is so slow. You can't really begin to be productive with a computer until the basics (moving the mouse, pulling down menus, etc) are intuitive.

    Of course, we were all newbies at one point. And old people don't have the benefit of having grown up with all sorts of electronic gizmos like us. Come on... how many of you had your paths into the computer world paved by Ataris and NES's? Hehee...

    http://www.bootyproject.org [bootyproject.org]
  • by pele (151312) on Saturday June 16 2001, @01:11PM (#146787) Homepage
    Don't forget that old one "You don't know how to make kids, dad.." My mom is 70 and we're at the stage where I send her instructions by email on how to fix things that my little niece messes up (email/browser/dialup settings, new drivers, whatnot). Old guys also tend to take notes and, believe you me, their notes do actually help them (unlike when I take notes, I can't make out heads or tails of it later). Also tell them to hold the mouse steady when doing a double-click - I've tried and tried so many times explaining it to my mom untill I told her "hold the mouse steady" and immediately she did it no probs. If it's not working then set the timeout on a double-click to something slightly bigger. And that's that...
  • shaky hands by caduguid (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:03PM
  • Problems with mouse by matria (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @09:04PM
  • by Misch (158807) on Saturday June 16 2001, @01:20PM (#146790) Homepage
    That's quite a daunting task you've taken on there! Here's what I recommend:

    1: You're going to have to keep your group size small. 1 person trying to keep 20 seniors to task is just not going to work effectivley (IMHO) Back in HS, I helped with a training session for teachers. We were in a 1:5 ratio, and it was hard enough.

    2: Plan, Prepare & Practice your lessons. Think about what you are going to teach. Think about things from their angle. If something is glaringly obvious to you, it's not going to be glaringly obvious to them.

    3: Handouts are effective! After being asked over and over and over again about "How do I do this...", I created a series of paper handouts that has step by step instructions to do it. (Screen shots are helpful!)

    4: See what they already know. Find out what the people already know. Try to get them working in teams with people who have a little bit more experience.

    And my last rule of thumb: KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) I can't emphasize just how important it is for you to keep things simple.

  • KISS by toybuilder (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:58PM
  • Teaching the elderly by toybuilder (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:02PM
  • My parents are between 75 & 80 ... by ReidMaynard (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:34PM
  • Re:Let them work on a Macintosh by piecewise (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:45PM
  • Re:They're just students, after all... by Snuffub (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @06:53PM
  • Re:They're just students, after all... by Snuffub (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:31PM
  • by Snuffub (173401) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:15AM (#146797) Homepage
    For many people at slashdot a search at google will probably turn up the most indepth information on a subject that they want to research. But for a senior the information is probably going to be too hard to sort through and too littered with dead ends. I would suggest directing them towards specific sites rather than the web at large.

    For example, if they want to look up information babe ruth mlb's web site would be a better place to start than a search engine.

    if you give them a list of bookmarks ranging from encyclopedia's to trivia sites itll be easier for them to digest the information than if you give them a search engine and show them how to get whatever they want.

  • Re:Solitaire, metaphors - Good thread! by lacoste (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @01:49PM
  • Hardware considerations by mjflory (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:48PM
  • History... by yolto (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:56PM
  • teaching beginners by Alien54 (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:29PM
  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by kwerkey (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:23AM
  • Re:The orthoginal problem by Gordonjcp (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:36AM
  • Re:Games by Chundra (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:03PM
  • Re:Consistency by WPL510 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:54AM
  • Some Techniques... (Score:5)

    by PostScript (202504) on Saturday June 16 2001, @12:31PM (#146806) Homepage

    Having spent a number of years assisting older new computer users in becoming accustomed to their machines, I think I can offer some helpful suggestions. My advice is perhaps best broken into three categories: attitude, metaphors and technology.

    Attitude

    One of the most common mistakes I see among younger people working with the elderly, even well-meaning younger people who are volunteering to help in the first place, is a patronizing or condescending attitude. Most older computer users expect that computers are going to be frustrating, to some degree. They don't need to be "soothed" and can deal with frustration. By the same token, they don't need to be faced with two sources of frustration: the computer and the instructor. To avoid contributing to frustration:

    1. Speak clearly and at a moderate pace and a volume perhaps slightly louder than you are used to using with twenty-somethings. This is a generally good habit to get into with people in their seventies and eighties. Don't scream, but don't mumble, either.

      Don't digress. While you may think it is profoundly important to explain how the software is working in the background, or what the difference between RAM and the hard drive is, this extra information is just clutter to someone trying to accomplish a task. Only bring up extraneous information if you are asked a direct question.

      Use common language and avoid jargon. If jargon is necessary, define all terms. It's true that people benefit from explanations and context, but only if they understand those explanations.

    This last point leads to my next section, on the use of appropriate metaphors.

    Metaphors

    The biggest conceptual leap for an older computer user is the idea of hierarchy in the computer, whether that hierarchy is expressed in the layers of the file system, or in layers of stacked windows. Operating system GUIs, all of them, fail miserably in terms of usability by allowing windows to be stacked, and allowing non-modality. Yes, of course you readers of Slashdot are power users, and these things don't confuse you, but have you ever been in a forty-five minute conversation trying to explain what happens when a pop-up window disappears behind the main browser window? It is impossible to overestimate how difficult this concept is for many older people. It is not, by any means, a lack of intelligence, capability, memory or any such thing. Rather, it is a learned concept that the average Slashdot reader was fortunate enough to pick up transparently in childhood. I don't mean to suggest older users _won't_ get the hierarchy concept, but that instructors should not brush by the idea without acknowledging what a big conceptual leap it is. Metaphors can help the transition.

    There's a reason why the Macintosh has a "desktop"; it was presumed that the metaphor of the desk and working with static, page-like files would allow users to comfortably transition to the hierarchic file system. Use the desktop metaphor to explain the idea of layered windows, which are much like stacked pages.

    The "tree" metaphor has also been successful with a lot of my clients. The hard drive is the "root", the folders/directories are the "branches" and the files are the "leaves". Go ahead and draw a picture; this isn't patronizing.

    By the way, don't encourage new users of any type to mulitask. For example, never, ever, ever start by saving a document to a personal folder in the hierarchy. Save everything to the default location. Then, close all applications, and commence a completely different exercise: moving the document from one place to another. This prevents users from conflating the function of the application and the filesystem.

    Technology

    It is extremely worthwhile to attempt to set up your users' computers beforehand to make their experience better. Make sure that all applications are easily accessible from the Start or Apple menu. Make sure that all windows in applications are maximized, so the desktop is hidden (this is much less confusing). Make sure each user has a "My Documents" or personal folder accessible from the desktop. Make sure that to whatever extent is possible, applications present modal windows, and that Web sites you visit do not generate pop-ups or other screen clutter. Plan the lesson ahead of time and set the lesson up in your software, so that you are not in the position of confusing the user in the process of correcting an overlooked and extraneous step.

  • fear of new technology by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @10:06PM
  • consistency... by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @10:21PM
  • tricks of confidence by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @10:40PM
  • talk to them... by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @10:54PM
  • *sigh* by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @11:30PM
  • WOW... check out this site... very impressive by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @11:34PM
  • don't bet on it *grin* by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @11:40PM
  • hard to find... by Technodummy (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @11:44PM
  • Re:The orthoginal problem by yali (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:47PM
  • Set up a custom, local web page by Random Man (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @06:50PM
  • by angry old man (211217) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:22AM (#146817)
    Bagh, back in my day, people didn't need to teach senior citizens how to use the web. Senior citizens were old and frail and we just put them out to pasture.

    Now-a-days all you kids and your eco-friendly fancy schmancy respect-everybody want to teach old people how to use the internet.

    Well, all I have to say is this... If old people needed to learn how to use the 'net, then they would learn it. Your typical old-nearly-dead (such as myself) spends their time watching Alex Trebeck and Pat Sajek and we have no need for the fancy-schmancy commerciallized contorsion that used to be the internet.

    Back in my day, we used the internet to trace milatary sectrets and send information to colleagues. Now it's a commercialized joke that's dominated by too few large corporations.

    Instead of teaching us old fogies how to use the internet, we'd rather that you gave us all sponge baths.

  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by Deadplant (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:01PM
  • whatever you do.... by djocyko (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:16PM
  • Don't forget... by march (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @04:09AM
  • Games (Score:3)

    by kstumpf (218897) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:28AM (#146821)
    I had to teach some older relatives of mine. What I did the very first day was show them how to get to the windows games, ie solitaire and minesweeper.

    Once they got caught up in a game of solitaire, they got over the intimidation of the computer and learned the mouse very quickly without even realizing it.

    Its also a good way to introduce menus like options and help, since its all very logical in the context of a game.

  • Re:Games by maninblackhat (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:41PM
  • Re:The orthoginal problem by Johnny Starrock (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:52PM
  • Re:Let them work on a Macintosh by $FFh (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:27PM
  • Teaching computer skills by hillct (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:23AM
  • E-mail by sirisaac82 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:18PM
  • Currently Teaching G-Ma by 8bahl (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @07:45PM
  • Ergonomics by selan (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @09:57AM
  • The LAST thing I want... by phillymjs (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:44AM
  • Dear God NO! by Lottaguns (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @12:19AM
  • by merger (235225) on Saturday June 16 2001, @12:37PM (#146831)
    Over the past two years I have taught my 82 year old grandma to get on the computer, use the internet, send email, and draw with paintbrush. At first she was slow and couldn't remember where to click, how many times. The best thing you can do are to write down detailed instructions including little diagrams of what the buttons to click on look like, and catergorize them, like "check email", "send email", "shutdown computer", "open dial up connection". At first they will likely use these a lot but when they use the computers more, they'll find themselves using the instructions less. You have to remember their short term memory is not as good as a younger persons, and adapt to that. The long term memory still works great. Also, tie in the internet to things in their daily life. One of the favorite things my grandma loves is the cooking channel web site where she can print the recipie of what she sees Emeril or other chefs prepare. Spend the time to find out what they enjoy outside of the computer and then help find resources that expand on their interests. Also, show them fun things like paintbrush. I know it is a simple program, but sometimes its fun to just draw shapes and colors. Since I got her on the computer, she has gotten a couple of friends on there, who previousely didn't see any use for the interent. They just needed to be pointed in the right direction, and given the knowledge of how to use the computer.
  • it's easy (Score:3)

    by telstar (236404) on Saturday June 16 2001, @12:33PM (#146832)
    Just tell them each mistake they make takes one year off of their life...
  • Tips for Teaching Seniors About the Internet? by db25head (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:54PM
  • Biggest problem is dexterity by TalShiar00 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:56AM
  • Re:shaky hands by skt (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:18PM
  • Tips for Teaching Slashdotters About GM Pets? by Vegan Pagan (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @09:38PM
  • Two words by dswensen (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:02PM
  • Amplify: DO NOT touch the keyboard or mouse. Ever! by budgenator (Score:1) Monday June 18 2001, @02:28AM
  • Let them make mistakes by starphish (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:58PM
  • Re:My Experiences (limited though they are) by suwain_2 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:38PM
  • Re:Get kids to teach 'em by suwain_2 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:53PM
  • Explain... (Score:3)

    by suwain_2 (260792) on Saturday June 16 2001, @02:34PM (#146842) Journal
    ... the size of the Internet. My grandfather is constantly remarking on how he found "yet another" website; I don't think he quite understands that there are billions of sites.

    Also, a little pet peeve... Explain the 'syntax' of a URL -- what the "http://" means, and how the domain is essentially a reverse directory -- slashdot goes under "org", and "www" goes under Slashdot.

    A smaller pet peeve -- the www isn't necessary. I've taken to not typing it at all, and very rarely do I need it.

    As if you don't have enough tips... A discussion of e-mail hoaxes and spam is in order; not to mention viruses. I find that seniors are usually impressed with the coolness of a complete stranger sending them a 'webpage' as an attachement... And my grandfather was convinced for the longest time that the US Postal Service was going to start taxing everyone for lost profits due to e-mail. And dealing with spam could be its own lesson.

    Good luck with the class, I appreciate what you're doing.
    ________________________________________________

  • Re:Mouse usage 101 by blandahl (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:18PM
  • FERGING SICK OF THIS!!!!! by Iron Webmaster (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @08:56PM
  • Re:Solitaire.. seriously! by Pentapod (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @10:20PM
  • our program by wroot (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @10:32PM
  • Never Ever Buy eMachines.... by TheOnlyCoolTim (Score:1) Monday June 18 2001, @07:26PM
  • Re:Consistency by Molf (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @06:33AM
  • Solid Models by KupekKupoppo (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:24PM
  • Re:Consistency [and REPETITION] by Xaje (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:03PM
  • Re:My Experiences (limited though they are) by KeyserDK (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:23PM
  • Re:Consistency by Chyron (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:02PM
  • And obviously... by antek9 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @06:10PM
  • Just a couple of hints. by Neck_of_the_Woods (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:49PM
  • You'd be surprized by Glanz (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @05:27AM
  • Teaching Old Dogs...bah. by 5arah (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:26PM
  • The Obvious!!! by Joff_NZ (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:35PM
  • seniors and the net by kurt555gs (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @03:59PM
  • Re:Consistency by cowtamer (Score:2) Monday June 18 2001, @04:48AM
  • Here's what I teach. by xeeno (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @07:55PM
  • Mouse usage 101 by geoswan (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:41AM
  • Re:Write Down Instructions by Otik2 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:26PM
  • goal-oriented + realize physical limitations by NaturePhotog (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:10PM
  • Show them how search engines work (and don't work) by philologist (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:04PM
  • Mobility tricks... by CoachS (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:27PM
  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by Sniser (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:01PM
  • Issue of contrast... by Lethyos (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:34PM
  • by Lethyos (408045) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:18AM (#146868) Journal
    I worked for a start-up last summer called ElderVision. Our product was, in brief, an online community of seniors accessed through an Internet appliance w/o keyboard or mouse - just touch screen, and a very simplified interface of our own design. Seniors adapted very well to it and were up and on their way to successfully using various web services and email.

    Only one problem. Our success was cut short by the fact that venture capitalists didn't seem to think we were a company with a valuable service. Go figure.

    If you want to know more about this, you can check out ElderVision's web site (a minimal version is still online) at http://www.eldervision.net [eldervision.net]. You can jump straight to our product description here [eldervision.net].

    If you'd like, I can put you in touch with Jeff Pepper, the man with the vision (no pun). Send email to silicon@compsci.duq.edu. Maybe he can provide you with more information.

  • by IBitOBear (410965) on Saturday June 16 2001, @11:25AM (#146869) Homepage
    My mother want's to get on the net. My mother is from a gneration that believes nearly everything they read or see on TV. (No she doesn't beleive soaps are peopled by the characters, e.g. she knows and has no trouble with the concept of fiction, but when a person presents themselves as "some kind of expert" on talk-shows and sutff, she doesn't seem to be as skeptical as she ought to be.)

    My fear of her getting on the internet is that the kind of confidence tricks played on the elderly could easily be amplified against her by her, seemingly fundamental, feeling that only authorities are allowed to speak authoratatively in a public media.

    Oh sure, she'll *say* she understands that she should beleive next to nothing on the net. But will she *believe* it well enough to protect herself.

    Prior evidence suggests not.

    So the real question for seniors on the net is: how do you prepare people who were "outraged" by the mere idea (in its day) that game-shows were sometimes fixed and who think that anything that looks and feels like a news show is relatively unbiased?

    ASIDE: Do you think that "the youth of today"(tm) are less likely to "fall for" televangelisim etc because of their being brought up "relatively jaded" about how seriously to consider the words sent to them on the NET and by extension TV?

    --

  • Re:+20 HILARIOUS! by tqk (Score:1) Friday June 22 2001, @01:17PM
  • Re:Consistency by slashdot_commentator (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @05:01PM
  • The elderly could be the Internet's salvation by slashdot_commentator (Score:1) Sunday June 17 2001, @05:34PM
  • Forget about other users by jneves (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:30AM
  • Tell them it's not that hard by frobozz3.141 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:27PM
  • First inner city kids, and now the elderly? by blang (Score:2) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:46PM
  • by SilentChris (452960) on Saturday June 16 2001, @01:32PM (#146876) Homepage
    I taught a few classes for senior citizens as part of a senior high school project. A couple of things I learned (from myself teaching and watching other students try):

    * Provide as little information as required to get the users to access the internet. You don't have to go into the notion of "servers" and "clients", and you certainly shouldn't mention "way back mainstays" like FTP and Gopher. The users just need to know there are "computers out there" that are sharing information, and some of this information is available to look at. That's it.

    * Metaphors help, but you got to use the right ones. I found the best one I tried (and got most people to instantly understand web browsers) is that these are like pages in a book. You can go back, flipping through the pages of the "internet book" using the Back button, and you can go forward through the pages using the Forward button. Any time you see the hand and can click the mouse, that's like reading a new page you haven't seen before.

    * Email addresses confuse the hell out of people until you explain that it's almost exactly the same as real-life addresses on envelops. The part before the @ sign is the person you want to send it to, and the part after is their "street number and city". Again, don't get too caught up in metaphors, but basic, solid ones certainly work.

    Good luck.

  • Just teach them how to use the computer by sketerpot (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:36AM
  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by banshee2000 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:10PM
  • Do not be afraid!! by communist rabbi (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:36AM
  • Introduce them to their peers by ruszka (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:39AM
  • I can't believe this. by Anomolous Cow Herd (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @02:10PM
  • Re:teaching seniors... by jrp2 (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @06:32PM
  • Re:stick to the tamer side of the web by whereiswaldo (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @04:13PM
  • school? by tofu-X (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @01:12PM
  • Let them learn by dex-Z (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @12:09PM
  • Blaap by thanatoswol.be (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:44AM
  • Re:Blaap by thanatoswol.be (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @11:47AM
  • Mouse Teaching by WinNotK (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @05:37PM
  • You'll have a tought row to hoe! by Moonza (Score:1) Saturday June 16 2001, @08:17PM
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