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Linux Rocket Blasts Off This Fall 327
HardcoreGamer writes "An Oregon amateur rocket group, the Portland State Aerospace Society, plans to launch a Linux-powered rocket weighing 12 pounds to 55,000 feet at a speed of Mach 3 in September, Wired News reports. The rocket's onboard computer is an AMD 586 processor and a Jumptec MOPS/520 PC/104+ board along with a power supply, a PCMCIA card carrier for an 802.11b card to transmit data to the ground, and a carrier board for a 128-MB CompactFlash card for long-term storage. The flight computer runs a stripped-down version of Debian Linux, with the 2.4.20 Linux kernel. The group will present a paper (HTML | PDF ) on the use of free software in rocketry at Usenix 2003. The real question is whether their network card will survive 10 seconds at 15 Gs!"
So... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:2)
15Gs, no problem! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:15Gs, no problem! (Score:3, Interesting)
Why this rocket won't fly. (Score:5, Funny)
NOT linux POWERED (Score:5, Funny)
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:5, Funny)
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:3, Funny)
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:5, Funny)
No, what you're thinking about is a hot air baloon.
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:5, Funny)
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:2)
not to mention body salts, human hair and a total lack of tan!
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:3, Funny)
Mmmm. Soylent Fuel
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:5, Funny)
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:2)
Sorry, had to do it.
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:2)
I think what you meant is:
You underestimate the power of the (open) source.
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:3, Funny)
Obviously unsafe and a tool of terrorism that will virally infect your code. . . and then blow it up.
I'm dissapointed actually. I just printed out the kernel source code, rolled it up and stuffed it up the butt of an Estes rocket and, nothin'.
Maybe I should have printed it on flash paper.
KFG
Slashdot powered! (Score:5, Funny)
Now simply ride the flames that come out the back of that.....
Re:NOT linux POWERED (Score:5, Funny)
Boot guidance system, wait 15 miutes, heat exhaust ignites fuel.
Oh damn, your still right...it's an AMD powered rocket. Sad attempt at humor ruined...aborting!
Right on! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:NOT linux POWERED - The obvious (Score:2)
THE ROCKET IS POWERED BY COMBUSTIBLE FUEL! LINUX IS NOT A POWER SOURCE!
Through your usage of capital letters, I have become a wiser man.
Smart ass comments aside, I agree with your point. Obviously, they're using the meat of a penguin who - by the cruelty of his Geek master - was named 'Linux'.
Bad idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Funny)
I had to say it... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I had to say it... (Score:2)
Linux is nopw a terrorist tool! (Score:3, Funny)
I realize you are joking... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I realize you are joking... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I realize you are joking... (Score:4, Informative)
802.11b? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:802.11b? (Score:5, Informative)
Cringely got something like 10Km with a Pringles can, so I expect someone with more of a clue can push that to 55,000'.
k.
Re:802.11b? (Score:5, Informative)
Someone's done a 72-mile link.
The hard part is that you either have to track the rocket with a directional antenna, or try to make everything work with a non-directional antenna. The 72-mile link was from one fixed point to another using mid-size parabolic antennas.
Re:802.11b? (Score:3, Informative)
We're currently using a cylindrical patch antenna on the rocket, and a semi-directional antenna (helical) on the ground. Eventually, we'll build a tracking dish for the ground, and try to phase the rocket antenna to get the antenna pattern to point more down. Right now the rocket antenna pattern is a sort of "donut", which is fairly suboptimal.
Microwave antenna design is hard. If any gurus want to contribute expertise, please drop PSAS a note.
Re:802.11b? (Score:3, Informative)
I could imagine a 2.4GHz 'stripline' loop (or semi-loop) yagi made of copper tape glued to the outside of your body tube. Naturally the reflector(s) would be up, and the directors down. This would be fairly directional, depending on the number of elements.
Alternatively, wrap the copper tape helically around the body tube, matching the sense of your ground antenna.
Good luck!
Re:802.11b? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sorry, but whats a clue can and why is it better than pringles?
Re:802.11b? (Score:2)
Then again, Cringely never bothered to disclose exactly how he accomplished [oreillynet.com] this 'fantastic' feat.
Re:802.11b? (Score:3, Interesting)
I seem to remember lots of people saying what use ham radio -
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/09/10342
If you got a ham licence how far could you listen to your music from your home server with a LEGAL power boost
Re:802.11b? (Score:3, Informative)
Hams are not allowed to transmit music via a phone mode, i.e. J3E, A3E, F3E, etc. Digital music (and pictures, for that matter), as long they are not facilitating anyone's regular business, are fine. I can legally stream my MP3's via amateur radio all day long (with proper ID, frequency and mode selelection, and station control, of course). The data is not encrypted, it is encoded and compressed - perfectly legal. Bits is bits, I always say.
can't resist.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:802.11b? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:802.11b? (Score:4, Insightful)
Second, they've got clear line of sight (um, unless they plan on launching the thing in the middle of the woods) so you don't lose any signal strength going through things, so you've only got 1/r^2 to deal with. It's a distance, hell yes, but a good enough antenna on both ends will do fine. The only problem with that is that only the ground has a pointable antenna, so here's hoping they've got plenty of link margin.
Re:802.11b? (Score:5, Informative)
Establishing link at 55,000 feet? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Establishing link at 55,000 feet? (Score:2)
Software (Score:5, Interesting)
But, I gather the greatest stresses will be on the computer hardware, as 10 G's will put a meaningful load on the parts, not to mention vibrational loads. And rockets are difficult to begin with. Here's hoping it works.
Re:Software (Score:5, Funny)
hardware reliability (Score:2, Interesting)
The only non-solid-state parts on the design are the connectors, which can handle hundreds or thousands of g's of acceleration without "bouncing" on the pins.
PC-104 is designed for high-stress applications such as this.
Re:Software (Score:3, Interesting)
not for launch guidance. hell I dont even need to have a computer or software for launch control.
all analog electronics with a simple gyro controlling fin servos, with a timer to click in an analog circuit to change angle of acent...
it's insanely simple... how do you think VonBraun did it in the 30's? certianly without digital computers.
WiFi (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:WiFi (Score:2)
Trouble? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Trouble? (Score:2)
uh no wait it is scary.
Ours is bigger. (Score:3, Interesting)
Free software, open hardware, and collaboration (Score:3, Interesting)
Let me extend your comment with a concern of ours: the lack of technical collaboration between amateur aerospace groups.
When we started PSAS, there was very little posted on advanced amateur rocketry (especially avionics). Now there's a lot more, but for some reason many amateur aerospace groups either:
1) feel their technology is good enough to be proprietry (i.e., closed source), or
2) or they're too laz
apt-get in space? (Score:2)
Just the 802.11 card? I'd worry about the rest! (Score:4, Interesting)
Yipes. High-altitude, high stress stuff is always a pain (which is why aerospace companies make so much money designing things).
It'll definitely be cool to see if this works. The paper's a little light on details of the design (for certain things - like the actual construction or parts choices - for other things it seems pretty detailed).
Re:Just the 802.11 card? I'd worry about the rest! (Score:2, Funny)
The pics that were on it were still there when it was through...didn't put it in the dryer though. Unfortunately the pics were not dirty to begin with, so I can't say whether or not they were cleaned in the whole process.
What kind of G's does a Kenmore produce?
Cheers,
Babyrat
Re:Just the 802.11 card? I'd worry about the rest! (Score:2)
Then there's the whole thermal design thing, which I didn't see anything regarding that in the paper... I wonder if they're just going to skip the thermal design portion, and just trust that it's a quick up-and-down, so there's n
I'm glad to see... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm glad to see... (Score:2, Funny)
A helpful hint: (Score:3, Funny)
Aim for Redmond, guys.
Will never fly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux Powered or AMD Powered? (Score:2, Funny)
Talk about potential for burn up on reentry though.
Humor Attempt of the Day. (Score:5, Funny)
Aww c'mon, they've only Linux. Not as if installing Linux is rocket-science...
Re:Humor Attempt of the Day. (Score:2)
only [installed] Linux. When I'm hungry, I eat words. Never when I'm wrong, of course, then I troll.
from the HOWTO (Score:5, Funny)
During system installation, it's important to use the right networking packages, to cope with the slightly nonstandard hardware. At the bash prompt, type:
% apt-get skynet
Carmack et. al. @ ArmadilloAerospace .... (Score:5, Informative)
He's also been using 802.11 for communications.
His laptop control station is win32 though.
ArmadilloAerospace [armadilloaerospace.com]
-malakai
Re:Carmack et. al. @ ArmadilloAerospace .... (Score:4, Informative)
The hardware is for sale from Rotomotion [rotomotion.com], too, so you can build your own.
Embed hi-g stuff in epoxy. (Score:2)
It will if it is embedded in epoxy.
5...4....3.... (Score:2)
Oh shit... sorry guys, gotta start over. I had the caps-lock on.
"Open the pod bay doors, Linux" (Score:2, Funny)
It's been done before (Score:2)
Viking III (Score:3, Funny)
15 G's isn't much (Score:2, Informative)
I think a bigger concern would be whether the connectors are properly held together and maintain electrical connection. The boards should be fine.
You can find lots of DEBI info by looking through the past two weeks of my journal. You'd have to follow l
security? (Score:2, Insightful)
Vibrations (Score:3, Interesting)
Not sure if they tested for this but if they didn't I think this particular rocket might not go too far.
NASA press release re. Linux powered rocket (Score:3, Funny)
15G is nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
I would have thought that vibrations are much worse than the overall acceleration of the rocket; Anyone ever taken a computer out of the back of a car (which probably never exceeds 1.5G) only to find that some screws have come loose or a PCI card has fallen out? (cos I have!).
Hope those guys have a good legal team ;p (Score:5, Funny)
confused.... (Score:3, Informative)
I remember they used the jumptec 386 dimmpc and used ham radio packet on 144/440mhz to get telemetry up/down.
I know I saw it here. Can anyone find it?
Idea for a caption on the side (Score:3, Funny)
Mach 3 (Score:5, Funny)
Finally, somebody gets an AMD to run at a high speed.
Re:Not so fast (Score:3, Funny)
It'll never get off the ground - too much bloat!
Re:Not so fast (Score:3, Funny)
It'll never get off the ground - too much bloat! "
"...Linux-built engine"
It'll never get off the ground - nobody wrote the man page for the launch command!
Re:IANARS but... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:IANARS but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:IANARS but... (Score:2)
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:IANARS but... (Score:2)
Re:IANARS but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Uhm, nope. You know there _are_ other OSs out there besides Windows and Linux. Sure, a post like that makes for good Karma, but for crying out loud, what is the exact value of your post?!
I will tell you which OSs have been running stuff like this; real-time, embedded OSs, such as VxWorks, QNX and all the others. Until recently linux SUCKED ASS for real-time applications. I don't think even Torvalds would mind me saying so. It just wasn't designed that way. There have been major improvements lately, which are all very promissing, but for applications that really demand real-timeness, probably very few people (in their right frame of mind, no offense) would choose Linux.
Re:IANARS but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only did Linux "Suck Ass" for doing hard realtime, most of the architectures that it runs on do as well. For tasks of this nature, unpredictabilities like cache misses can be deadly, so you want much of the critical control features to run on as simple an architecture as possible.
PIC or MC68hc11 are good candidates, anything more complex than an 8080 probably isn't.
If it's controlling thrust vectoring, control surfaces, or fuel valves, I sure wouldn't want an OS like Linux, Windows, HPUX, Solaris, etc with multitasking and/or VM.
Re:IANARS but... (Score:2)
Many older rockets use hardwired systems for telemetry, command and control.
It takes 9 months... (Score:2)
I used to try to explain that all processes have to be separated in what can be parralelised, and the part that is serial and can no advantage of multiprocessors... Now I go straigth to: If you can harvest your field in 9 days with one combine, then you should be able to harvest it in 1 day with 9 combine - but 9
... and we say "anonomous CVS access" at... (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
ITAR (Score:3, Informative)
They also have to comply with U.S. export laws (International Traffic in Arms Regulations, 22 CFR 120-130) that require an export license for missile technology. That trumps the GPL. You can get in serious trouble if you ignore the law.
Re:ITAR (Score:2)
Re:Embellishment (Score:2)
Mind the -f command.
Re:Linux in space? (Score:2)
Good thing they didn't plan a return trip!
ICBMs? (Score:2)
No, this is just part of our nefarious plan to make Linux-powered ICBMs.
Nukes we won't be able to manage, but a passel of penguins "down South" will be lobbing icebergs at Redmond any day now.
In which case they will be "ice-BMs".
Ick. I don't believe I just wrote that. Please mod me down (-1, Dumbshit).
Cheers,
Ethelred
Re:Can we include HDD with illegal mp3s ? (Score:5, Funny)
Easy, sue SCO, the owner of the patents for Linux for developing a platform that allowed such a satellite to be launched.
Re:Wow (Score:2)