Slashdot Log In
ISP Bans RIAA to Protect Its Customers
Posted by
michael
on Tue Aug 20, 2002 09:02 AM
from the shot-heard-round-the-net dept.
from the shot-heard-round-the-net dept.
fader writes "Information Wave Technologies, a northeastern (US) ISP has announced that "it will actively deny the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) from accessing the contents of its network". Apparently this is in response to the RIAA (and MPAA, but they don't seem to be blocking them yet) plan to actively attack P2P users. All I can say is, you go, guys! I hope more ISPs will follow their lead."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
ISP Bans RIAA to Protect Its Customers
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 607 comments
(Spill at 50!) | Index Only
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
|
2
(1)
|
2
Re:Fugetabout it (Score:5, Informative)
common carrier? (Score:4, Insightful)
When the RIAA comes and demands they cut off access to warez.org, they'll be in less of a position to say they can't/don't do content-based filtering. In for a penny, in for a pound; this may be shooting themselves in the foot.
Re:common carrier? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:common carrier? (Score:4, Insightful)
How so? The RIAA has cleary stated that THEY WILL actively attack P2P users on any computer that is distributing music. They are protecting users here, not filtering.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Re:common carrier? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps, if they HAD such status. Although many ISPs would prefer common carrier status, I've yet to hear of a definable ruling that they have it. It's an issue that neither the courts or Congress has directly addressed yet. I'm sure in the next few years, it will be settled, one way or another.
Disagree? Please point me to a court ruling that says I'm wrong.
Re:common carrier? (Score:5, Informative)
By my reading of section 202 they can make reasonable descrimination against people, and if cutting off people who are bent on harming your customers isn't reasonable I don't know what is.
It shall be unlawful for any common carrier to make any unjust or unreasonable discrimination in charges, practices, classifications, regulations, facilities, or services for or in connection with like communication service, directly or indirectly, by any means or device, or to make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any particular person, class of persons, or locality, or to subject any particular person, class of persons, or locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage.
Re:Fugetabout it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Fugetabout it (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not so sure about that. Since their network is a private one, they certainly have the right to blacklist anybody they want. Should they share that list with other ISPs, there may be some problems. But setting up their own list is not illegal. Furthermore, should they see this thing out, they may eventually have more business than they can even handle.
RIAA may be able to take them to court, but it would probably be worth the $$$ to fend them off.
Re:Excuse me???? (Score:5, Funny)
And to satisfy those customers, they could just summarize the RIAA website:
I live in CT (Score:5, Funny)
Wow....fake files... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow....fake files... (Score:5, Insightful)
That depends. If you just want to be able to leech away on any and all music, then it's not worth it.
If you just want your fair use, the RIAA off our backs and just want to use the network to discover new music that was put there by the artists themselvs, then it certainly IS worth it.
They're not putting up fake files of legal music, just fake files of illegal music. And that is quite fair in my humble oppinion.
Whoa whoa whoa (Score:5, Informative)
How about this part of the article? Honeynetting your ISP with fake mp3s to confound RIAA meddling is way more proactively defiant, IMO, than simply blocking traffic from riaa.org.
Re:Surely they'll check before attacking (Score:4, Funny)
I don't know, but if you figure it out please tell the rest of us so we can forget her too!
uhm...NO (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Entrapment? (Score:4, Informative)
That said, assuming the ISP isn't acting in concert with law enforcement, they're allowed to do whatever they want to keep out RIAA. RIAA would only have rights to pursue recourse if they had a contract with the ISP in some vendor-customer relationship. The ISP's actions don't constitute an attack against RIAA, although I'm sure RIAA would love to spin it that way.
This is great but... (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, I think that the banning of the RIAA from networks is a start. Now they need to ban the spoofers [siliconvalley.com] and companies like MediaDefender [mediadefender.com] who spend all of their bandwidth downloading files from YOUR computer to keep other people off.
I particularly like how they'll enforce this (Score:3)
I used to think the balkanization of the Internet would be a Bad Thing, but I'm not so sure now given the kind of tactics we're seeing the record and movie giants use.
Re:Previous History? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, [slashdot.org] there [slashdot.org] is. [slashdot.org]
Don't read much, eh?
ISP Karma (Score:3, Interesting)
(Yes, I know what would happen... thier mail server would go on strike, and be burned because it was too close to the exploding webserver)
This may not be the best idea... (Score:3, Interesting)
Everyone should be against any censorship!! May the RIAA burn in hell , but this ISP is no better....
Hell, this will proubly be modded down to hell, but think about what this could do to all our freedoms....
Re:This may not be the best idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
The highlighting was mine but goes to show that the ISPs own the equipment. Their network is theirs to do as they see fit. Would you want the federal government telling you that you were not allowed to block IP addresses from accessing your network? If you don't like the ISP's policies, use a different ISP.
Your argument reminds me of the spammers who accuse ISPs of censoring them and limiting their free speech.
Censorship is when the government limits what you can see and read. It's not when a private ISP makes a business decision to block IP addresses.
They're treating it like spam. (Score:5, Interesting)
The RIAA has announced its intention to crack any boxes that it wants to and has even bought a bill that would legalize it for them. That makes the RIAA a big security threat, even bigger when you consider that they have no oversight and a long record of not caring about little things like rights. Any contact with their network makes you vulnerable.
Any security type would want their network protected from snooping of any kind. Especially from a company that wants to shut down anyone it doesn't like and is protected against liability for any damage it does. An ISP blacklisting a company that does this, or even just announces that it plans to, is protecting its customers and being a good citizen.
I think the idea is going to catch on.
Re:They're treating it like spam. (Score:5, Informative)
ATTBI blocked my account for having a set up my BSD box with a static IP (it took them over a year to notice, and COX never cared), I got the service reinstated, told them that I was switching off of their service, we are in the process of changing my wifes cell phone service from ATT and I had the choice here at work about a long distance carrier recently and I specifically chose not to go with ATT. If we all did this companies like ATT and conglomerates like the RIAA and the MPAA will have to listen, after all they are only companies and the only power that they have is the power that we as consumers give them. Capatalism works, but we have to be the police, not the government.
Re:They're treating it like spam. (Score:4, Insightful)
Same old story (Score:5, Interesting)
It's like allowing an 18 year old with a basic knowledge of physics to decide regulations for bridge building.
For a less abstract analogy, I know that my television has been stolen from me. I don't know who, but I know it had to be someone in my neighborhood. Using the RIAA as a model, I should be able to go into each of my neighbor's houses to look for this television, without their permission. And if I have a strong suspicion that I have found the violator, I am allowed to destroy the house. That's basically what the RIAA wants.
Re:Same old story (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually it's even better. You still have your television, they just built one identical to yours,
no wait, they built one that looks and sounds almost exactly like your TV, only smaller.
Probably jumping the gun... (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand, in the absense of the bill, I think this is a reasonable move by the ISP, for two reasons. One, the normal state of things is that the network's value is increased by adding more nodes. If there are nodes that subtract value, then they should be excised from the network. (We have strange definitions of "value", by the way... to be anti-censorship yet pro-RIAA blocking is perfectly possible and sensible, but does require some careful defining of your objectives... a definition of value that focuses on not affecting other people adversely, without evaluating the speech content.)
Two, if anybody else stood up on a national stage and said "WE WANT TO HACK PEOPLE'S COMPUTERS", don't you think they'd get blackholed fast? The RIAA is just getting exactly what they asked for, the logical conclusion of standing up and yelling "WE WANT TO DESTROY THINGS!"
Publish your blacklist, Information Wave (Score:5, Insightful)
RIAA IP Space (Score:4, Informative)
Re:RIAA IP Space (Score:4, Insightful)
You must also deal with the RIAA's member companies, not just RIAA itself. It is technically the labels who own the copyrights and would be the ones to "enforce" those copyrights by hacking. Also, not all of the member companies are in favor of hacking consumer systems -- for example, AOL/TW & child company Warner Music are opposed to it.
This Kind of Restriction is Good, Then? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you can do it to them, they can do it to you. Pretty difficult to argue otherwise.
An ISP that blocks or restricts RIAA use of the net is legitimizing the practice they purport to oppose. This is not the way to fight this particular battle.
Re:This Kind of Restriction is Good, Then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually pretty easy to argue otherwise. The ISP is proactively banning someone who has stated their intention to break into their customers' computers. By that same logic, there's no reason to ban me or anyone else who uses the network for its proper purposes.
Re:This Kind of Restriction is Good, Then? (Score:4, Insightful)
As a political instrument, intended to thwart the RIAA's efforts to change the law, however, this kind of "good guys restricting the bad guys" activity will fail. The 'bad guys" will simply point to anyone's restriction of Internet use and call them hypocrites. Restrictions on freedom restrict freedom, regardless of their souce.
Distributed Honeypots (Score:4, Insightful)
I have sent them an email, do the same (Score:4, Insightful)
riaa@informationwave.net
Block RIAA members! (Score:5, Interesting)
blocking 208.225.90.0/24 is a weak protest. (Score:3, Interesting)
The two questions I have for you armchair systems admins and network engineers are;
1. What good will blocking 208.225.90.0/24 and 12.150.191.0/24 do for your network?
2. What good will transit providers derive from blocking 208.225.90.0/24 and 12.150.191.0/24 from traversing their network?
This is a purile waste of time and energy, do the right thing; Call your congress critter, hack them back, or protest in some other more effective way -- a router or iptables entry is a weak protest.
This reminds me of the old days (Score:3, Informative)
How to determine RIAA crackers vs REAL crackers ?? (Score:3, Interesting)
If ISPs report every instance of cracking by the RIAA, wouldn't the limited resources of the FBI be required to investigate so many 'approved' federal crimes that the real criminals would be getting away with more ?
These guys have the right idea, document, blacklist, AND report - treat the RIAA attempts like any other illicit action on their network !
Re:Excellent news (Score:3, Funny)