"Hackers" crack more Fed sites 118
pluteus_larva writes "Speaking of the media and government's war on hackers, CNN is reporting that "hackers" (why can't *anyone* get this right?) are attacking Federal Web sites. " The press is covering this in a variety of areas. In related news, CobaltQ sent us the story about how "non-sanctioned" Chinese crackers have taken aim at NATO sites since the Chinese embassy bombing.
First info guerilla war? (Score:1)
electronic guerilla war/civil war? Could it spread to China and Yugoslavia? It could be have some inteesting long term consequences....
Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Bicker Semantics (Score:4)
As noted by many other posters in this discussion, "cracker" is a racial slur. It has been in use for far longer than computers and networks have been around. I cite a Webster's from 1963 I just happen to have lying around:
Cracker:
1. a bragging liar
2. something that makes a cracking or snapping noise
3. NUTCRACKER
4. a dry think crisp bakery product made of flour and water
5. POOR WHITE: -- usually used disparagingly
6. the equipment in which cracking is carried out
Besides it's other meanings, cracker is just a lame term. When I saw that Wired article, I wondered what kinds of arguements went on in the newsroom when the editor and reporter disagreed over the term... or when at a staff meeting they decided to standardize upon usage.
I sincerely hope this arguement gets buried today, and that our esteemed colleagues at Slashdot ignore future temptation to start it up again by so blatantly including the arguement in the news brief.
Hacker _vs_ Cracker isn't the Problem (Score:2)
The real problem here is how woefully unprepared most governments are when it comes to computer security. They just don't get it. When a few kids can make the federal government look stupid, what do you think some professionals could do?
As a
And considering pretty soon everything from your TV to your toaster will have an IP address, it's going to get worse. Forget about a security system to guard the doors and windows, what if someone just gains access to your home network, turns off the alarm, and unlocks the door from his laptop while he's sitting in your driveway with a moving van?
--Mid
code words of a sub culture (Score:1)
the terms "hacker" and "cracker" will be used rightly by those who actualy belong to the hacker subculture. almost a password for us to reconize each other with.
so don't bother fighting, because there is no real battle.
Hackin' Crackin' Slackin' (Score:1)
Re:Hacker/Cracker defines YOUR perspective (Score:1)
Unless your geek audience went through the W4r3Z PuPPI stage sometime in thier life, in which case they will think you're talking about someone who defeats the copy protection on software.
Cracker has an established meaning too, and now the very same people who are whining about the misuse of one word are asking people to misuse a different word instead. Funny how the human mind works.
Whats wrong with NOT using jargon for once and calling those who circumvent security on a system what they are: intruders or infiltrators, depending on your spin.
-=OG=-
Re:Jury rigged? (Score:2)
I have to say that is one of the most facinating things I've read on slashdot for a while.
Unfortunately, however, I checked it out. My dictionary says the term "jerry built" (or "jury built") goes back to 1860s.
--
Re:respect (Score:1)
Re:Hacker/Cracker defines YOUR perspective (Score:2)
--tom
Re:respect (Score:2)
Re:"cracker" is a tall thin psychiatrist. (Score:1)
It's the same show. Some american studio bought the scripts and re-shot the show using american actors. Why? I have no idea.
The american version is a bit toned down and the guy who plays "cracker" is a bit more `nice' in the american version, but all in all not a terrible conversion.
The government must be living in ph33r now. (Score:1)
I'll show some respect once they can get into a server that means something. I'm sure there are plenty of cracks of high security servers every year, only those who crack them are smart enough to shut the hell up about it.
This just proves that the "cracker", "hacker" or whatever the hell it is this week, community are just a bunch of whiners. They go out and vandelize a web page, and then complain when they actually have to face the consequences. I believe in freedom of information and all that, but at the same time, the destruction of data is not protected under that. Once they are finished, administrators have to clean up after them, at the very least patching the hole (a good thing) and changing some file names, at the worst having to take down an entire system and restore from tape. This takes time and costs money. Administrators, many of whom are on call 24 hours a day, are pulled away from their families to clean up after your crap. If security was what they have in mind(as many claim), they should send them information regarding the hole and allow them to patch it. If it is retaliation, who are they retaliating against. This really doesn't effect the government, it just gives the government more cause to go after them.
They really need to do something creative for a change. l0pht I have respect for, cDc I have respect for, they find ways to break into systems, their own, and then release this knowlede to the world at large. Hacking for girlies and gH I have no respect for, they exploit known holes and never give back anything.
After all this ranting I should come to a point. These people should remember that just as firmly you believe you should be allowed to do whatever you want on the internet, the government believes they should be able to put your ass away for doing it.
Speaking directly to the script kiddies:
It is because of people like you that the internet is becoming more and more closed, for instance, I know of several places that basic UNIX commands are disallowed. There are several networks where finger, talk and ping are disallowed, simply because of the security risks involved. It used to be that there was a shell account provided as a matter of course, now I have one of the few ISP's that offers one. I'm only 20 and I feel bad that I could not experience all that the internet had to offer (yes, there is more than the web) before network security was forced to get tighter because of you. It has gotten to the point where any experimentation at all is regarded as an attack by systems administrators, and we have you to thank.
Which are cracked more? (Score:1)
Also, is it only the United States sites that are being attacked?
I have only seen one or two non -US sites that have been attacked. Why is this the case? Does the US have better security?
Attacking FBI??? (Score:1)
It doesn't seem to that attacking the FBI website is any smarter than trying to burn down a Police Station. Destroying/damaging government property is minor, but directly attacking a law enforcement agency is grounds for some serious jail time.
Maybe because... (Score:1)
Hacker/Cracker defines YOUR perspective (Score:3)
when writing for a geek audience, but I always use "hacker" when writing for a mass medium whose readers or viewers think "crackers" are people in the South who have Confederate flags in the back windows of their pickup trucks.
Cracker? Hacker? (Score:3)
You might have had a point if this was 1983, we had just seen the movie Wargames and wanted to prove how much a geek you were.
But this is 1999, the term Hacker has been used to refer to those who break into other computer systems at least since 1983 that I can remember.
The battle was long lost, it's time you just get a grip.
Everyone misspelling *does* make it right. (Score:1)
paet is pae o3nle wae.
[Stupid ascii, I'm typing in English and there's no thorn, ash, or yogh characters.]
Hacked Site.. (Score:1)
Re:Which came first "hacker" or "cracker"? (Score:1)
Re:respect (Score:2)
if you came to my house and used a paperclip to come into my back door when i was at work, and left a note of everything you did when i was gone so that i could fix the problem when i came home i would probabally be a little scared that someone broke in, but at least i know that i should fix my door. and big deal if you saw my underwear drawer when you were browsing around my house, as long as you dont tell people that i wear pink underwear im fine with it.
Simple solution: Allow open source encryption (Score:1)
The number one security hole in nearly every system is poorly chosen passwords. This problem could completely go away with a good public key authentication / encryption system implemented by default in all the key Internet protocols.
It would certainly help if the U.S. Patent Office would quit granting spurious software patents contrary to Title 17 Sections 101-103 of the U.S. Code and reduced the term to ten years for all the rest.
Re:respect (Score:1)
Re:Complete destruction (Score:1)
Hacker vs Skinhead (Score:1)
Point being, one person who thinks he's a hacker commits a crime that is newsworthy and causes fear in a populace that feels their privacy can be invaded (Mitnick - you moron), and all hackers are now... evil.
Skinhead= racist, Hacker= what we call cracker. Too late to do anything now but come up with a new name for hacker. I purpose
Why we shouldn't give up on the name "hackers" (Score:1)
Let's say you're a homosexual. (Whether you actually are one or not isn't relevant.) You're proud of that; being a gay person constitutes an important - almost essential - part of your self-image. You go out on the street, and, when asked, anyone will be able to tell, "yeah, that's a gay person."
Now one fine day, you wake up, and you read on the paper an article about some straights doing something. But waitaminnit - this article referred to these people as gay! Not heterosexuals, not true men, but gays! Being a true gay person, you get pissed off and write an enraged letter to the newspaper, explaining the difference between homosexuals and men in minutious detail, so that the shitheads will not do that again.
But it's too late. The term has caught on - and throughout the world, people are starting to call straight people "gays". Movies are made, books are published. Soon enough, whenever you go, people are talking about these "gays". You meet a nice MOTSS, but you accidentally mention you're gay, and he runs away, thinking you like to sleep with MOTOS.
Now what's this?!? Has the world gone mad?!? Seems rather Kafkaesque, doesn't it? Well, that's pretty much what happened to true hackers in the 1980's.
Conclusion: We are the original owners of the "hacker" sobriquet - it reflects an essential part of our collective history, culture and self-image. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of stupid rebellious kids with AOL accounts and way too much media coverage take that away from me.
Re:respect (Score:2)
Of passwords(locks) and accounts(doors). (Score:3)
The analogy is a very good one. I live in a secured appartment complex with locks on all the exterior doors, plus locks on the doors to each apartment. A simular situation is in effect with my computer. Each account can be considered a door, and passwords can be considered locks. I have passwords(locks) on all accounts(doors) that need login privilages, and dissabled all other accounts(doors). If somebody breaks into my computer they are treaspassing, just as they would be if they broke into my appartment.
A service like named or httpd can be considered to be like a bank lobby. If you stay within the bank lobby doing only normal transactions, then you're welcome. On the other hand, if you force your way back behind the counter to the employees only section and start rummaging through the files, then your are trespassing.
Which came first "hacker" or "cracker"? (Score:2)
When did "hacker"'s meaning change to Kernal hacker OSS hacker? Did I miss something?
magnet
ps. not tryint to start a flame war or anything, just a need to be educated.
Misguided Empowerment (Score:2)
You know what strikes me?
They think they can accomplish good. I mean they are utterly convinced of it. The average adult wouldn't think for a moment that they have the power to affect any sort of change on the government's part, Franchise or no. Yet, every time one of these kiddies lets it be known that they have obtained access, they are dictating the priorities of some very high level IS professionals.
As an aside, I used to do IS for a high school, so I know how the FBI feels. Of course, I was a co-op student. These guys are highly paid professionals (one would hope). Somehow I imagine it's different for them.
Regardless, my point is imagine what would happen if all these people thought that they were able to affect a good result for all of society. Imagine, for instance, that all of these people believed that they were able to eliminate political problems like campaign financing scandal. They would have to use different tools, and different methods, but if they already had the belief that they could do it, they would have acheived the most important part already.
But that won't happen. Why? Because as is so often the case, the people with the drive and skill, do not have the vision to see what they are really capable of.
They live in fear of being found out by the FBI. So they attack the FBI. It gives them comfort. It's selfish. No one else cares. Society as a whole doesn't give a rat's ass about kiddies living in fear of retribution. Society is what says that the retribution should exist, for christs sake.
So they lose the respect of the people that see what they do, because for all the skill and drive, they are selfish, and they are of no benefit to us.
If only we could bottle that drive, that belief that there is something that can be done against the greatest of foes, regardless of your individual power.
That's the reason I'm intrigued with the Open Source movement. What is different between the Open Source people and script kiddies? Vision. Where did it come from? And how could we bottle it and give it to them?
Just a thought.
Gothland
Retaliation? (Score:2)
Yes, they are angry with good reason.
Yes, they are unjustifiably persecuted.
But the answer is education, not retaliation. The answer has never been retaliation, even against a fearful, callous government.
Forget about the government. Teach the people.
And they spelled... (Score:4)
And they spelled Komputer and Computer... and I say my way is right and everyone else is wrong.
Face it, just becuase a small vocal and annoying minority try to use a word in a certain way, doesn't make that the "correct" meaning of the word. Go find a battle you haven't already lost.
Re:Which came first "hacker" or "cracker"? (Score:1)
Re:Complete destruction (Score:1)
Why we shouldn't give up on the name "hackers" (Score:1)
Let's say you're a homosexual. (Whether you actually are one or not isn't relevant.) You're proud of that; being a gay person constitutes an important - almost essential - part of your self-image. You go out on the street, and, when asked, anyone will be able to tell, "yeah, that's a gay person."
Now one fine day, you wake up, and you read on the paper an article about some straights doing something. But waitaminnit - this article referred to these people as gay! Not heterosexuals, not true men, but gays! Being a true gay person, you get pissed off and write an enraged letter to the newspaper, explaining the difference between homosexuals and men in minutious detail, so that the shitheads will not do that again.
But it's too late. The term has caught on - and throughout the world, people are starting to call straight people "gays". Movies are made, books are published. Soon enough, whenever you go, people are talking about these "gays". You meet a nice MOTSS, but you accidentally mention you're gay, and he runs away, thinking you like to sleep with MOTOS.
Now what's this?!? Has the world gone mad?!? Seems rather Kafkaesque, doesn't it? Well, that's pretty much what happened to true hackers in the 1980's.
Conclusion: We are the original owners of the "hacker" sobriquet - it reflects an essential part of our collective history, culture and self-image. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of stupid rebellious kids with AOL accounts and way too much media coverage take that away from me.
respect (Score:2)
Re:Actually, it's not illegal (Score:1)
- He breaks anything
- You ask him to leave and he doesn't (This includes a NO TRESSPASSING sign)
- He removes anything from your house (reading your diary is not stealing, nor is it illegal)
- He picks your lock to get in
I think we're forgetting what a computer is. It's an appliance. If you want to make analogies, think of it this way: You bought a newspaper. You place it on a table at work. Someone picks it up and reads it, and you're going to try to say they "stole your information" or they "trespassed into the pages of your newspaper"? Even if you took a black marker and wrote down your PIN for your bank card, that's not what your co-workers are interested in. They just want to read the paper.
On the internet, crackers will see you write your PIN in the newspaper, and stealthily try to take the newspaper, read the PIN, burn the newspaper so their fingerprints cannot be traced, and then withdrawl all the money from your bank account. The hacker will see you write the PIN in the newspaper, casually walk past, pick up the newspaper, read the PIN, hand the paper back, and say "You know, you really should write that number in a safer place. But, if you really need to have it in the newspaper, I suggest look at the first six letters of the front page, then lightly write the digits in the middle of the corresponding pages with a pencil, then fill some of the other pages with bogus numbers..."
Remember: crackers crack for personal gain and for kicks, while hackers use their abilities for knowledge and understanding, and to help others fix potential problems.
P.S. Let's just let the crackers (and the media) have the name "Hackers" and give ourselves a better name. Suggestions, anyone?
--------
Re:Actually, it's not illegal (Score:1)
Re:No more Hacking (Score:1)
And of course, someone who hacks DOS/Win9X/NT is a fatfscker.
''Yer such a fat fsck Cartman, than when you walk down the street, people say "GODDAMMIT! That kid is a big FAT FSCK!"'' -- Stan Marsh, South Park
- - -
Complete destruction (Score:1)
Does anyone have any idea how a server could be "destroyed completely" over the Internet? Assumably they're referring rm -rf / -ing it or something equally annoying, but no actual physical destruction (e.g. "lp0 on fire").
Hee hee (Score:2)
(shrug) Heck, why not?
"Hackers" crack more Fed sites (Score:1)
"cracker" is a fat detective.... (Score:1)
Re:Hacker/Cracker defines YOUR perspective (Score:1)
To emphasize your point...I've always heard the above mentioned crowd referred to as Hicks or Rednecks.
BTW,You forgot to mention the gunrack...
Re:Retaliation? (Score:1)
I don't think they are angry with good reason.
While I don't know the details, if the FBI is going after people that they have reason to believe violated government computers, that's the breaks. You mess with The Man, he'll mess right back.
But, assuming that they ARE angry with good reason, retaliation, particularly non-violent retaliation, is a completely acceptable answer. That's one reason we have the 2nd Amendment in the US, and it's also the reason that we have a US instead of a bunch of British colonists paying outrageous taxes on their tea.
Is Hacker != Cracker an English language problem? (Score:2)
Most people haven't read the official Jargon File definitions of hacker [tuxedo.org] and/or cracker [tuxedo.org]. This means that the more common word will be used the vast majority of the time, even though it is wrong. (consider that "irregardless" is not a word, for example.)
In my experience (starting in the late '70's), breaking into a system was often referred to "hacking" because the easiest metaphor to explain what a person was doing was that of someone using a machete to chop (hack) a new path through a jungle (security) into a central location (the targeted system). "Cracking" was related to breaking through security codes, etc., and was often referred to as being similar to cutting one's way through the walls with a "hack" saw.
Outside of computer circles, one does not "hack" something together. A person might "jury rig", "cobble", or "string" something together to see if it works, but the "hacking" part of the process is usually where something's getting dismantled in order to be reused in the new gadget. In this sense, I "hack" your code to get at the usable pieces. But am I really "hacking" when I put them back together?
I guess what I am driving at is that the "hacker's culture" is not a a "slash and destroy" mentality. It's much more an inventor's culture -- take things apart and put them together in useful new ways.
This is (IMHO) the single most important distinction which we need to convey to mainstream public and media.
------------
Re:Conspiracy theory (Score:1)
In the CNN article, the claims by M1crochip ( or whatever... when will the stupid Internet aliases come to an end?) are a bit farfetched. So far thy've stuck to replacing
If that happens, I hope they remember to leave up at least one server to host their M1crochip r00lz web page.
I stand corrected. "jerry built" it is. (Score:2)
That'll teach me to use English words I've heard but not seen in print... (and BTW, I am a native (American) English speaker. ...sigh...)
Re:Maybe because... (Score:1)
I've been writing programs since 1982, and I've never referred to 'people who write good code for fun' as "hackers". A "hacker" to me has always been someone who maliciously attempts to break into another computer system, long before the media got a hold of the word.
Frankly, the community of good coders better think of something fast, because if coders in the Linux/*BSD community continue to use the term 'hacker' to describe themselves, the media will go into a frenzy over the idea that the Linux community is run by people with malicious intent.
Re:respect (Score:1)
Hey, just like the media is doing now.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hypocrisy?
Re:Conspiracy theory (Score:1)
| alone skilled system crackers - would call
| themselves something as lame as "Masters of
| Downloading".
Yes, MoD does exist. Yes, it is lame.
On another note, in the post below this, someone appears to be arguing for the disbandment of the term "cracker" as differentiated from "hacker". I think a distinction does really need to be made verbally. Whether it be "good hacker" and "evil hacker" or whatever. Really, one should read ESR's Hacker Ethic. It's really not fair for hackers to be grouped with people so diametrically opposed. And especially not with the likes of MoD.
Re:And they spelled... (Score:2)
-AC
Re:respect (Score:2)
And the MIT model railroad club (or whomever) who used the term "hack" to denote a technical stunt were corrupting a word with many older and more varied meanings.
The only definition of "HacK" in my dictionary is the political term (someone who does partisan political work).
If you heard someone call their plumber or car mechanic a "hack", it would probalby be derogatory. Somehow it got twisted on it's head to be an honor in the computer world.
If you can live with political hacks and hack car mechanics and model railroad hackers, you ought to be able to live with Linux hackers and hax0r intruders.
--
Re: Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Bicker Semantics (Score:1)
Besides, the lameness of it is desirable. What better way to discourage script kiddies than to give them a stupid label?
What a joke (Score:1)
Re:Which came first "hacker" or "cracker"? (Score:1)
Along those lines... its scary talking to kids (I must be getting old) and hear about their interests being fueled by the movie "Hackers".
Kids these days. Back in MY days, we didn't have fancy gigabyte hard drives. We used floppies. We watched Wargames and Wizkids. And we LIKED it that way!
Anyway...
It didn't. Read the classic book "Hackers; Heroes of the Computer Revolution" by Steven Levy (first published in '86 I think, you can buy reprints - and there's an electronic version out there too.. I had a doc for the PalmPilot). Students at MIT began using the term "hack" to describe technical acheivments as early as the late 1950s. Consequently, they fell into coining the phrase "hacker" to describe themselves.
It wasn't until later that specific computer enthusiasts, "hackers", began sparking public interest with their expoits as computer nuisances, vandals, criminals, and now national threats.
CT magazine uses the term cracker (Score:1)
use cracker instead of hacker.
see http://www.heise.de/newsticker
(it's in german, but you can clearly see the term cracker
-funzel
Re:respect (Score:3)
I have no respect for people who break into sites without permission, whether they damage things or not. I DO, however, respect those who do it with permission on another system or locally on their own system. It takes quite a bit of brains to figure out ways around complex security measures. There are legal and ethical ways to breach the security of programs. (That is, until some misguided piece of legislation tramples that right.)
Mind you, I'm not preaching security through obscurity. I'm just saying that breaking into a system without permission is inethical, regardless of intentions. Who knows? Maybe I walked into your house to rearrange your furniture and fix your toaster. You don't know that, however. Therefore, you feel threatened by my presense and will presumably call authorities to haul me off elsewhere.
Conspiracy theory (Score:5)
These so-called break-ins are actually fakes created by the government so they can a) get increased support for crackdowns on "evil hackers" and b) increase attention and therefore funding for their own "cyberwar" plans.
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No more Hacking (Score:1)
Time to choose a brand new name.
I suggest 'Effer ... 'cause who hasn't completely effed a system by hacking, eh? As a bonus, it's doubtful that the papers would be all that eager to rip off the name. :-)
(My second vote goes for "Kimberley." Just 'cause it's a nice sounding name.)
Re:And they spelled... (Score:1)
In my opinion language (human I mean) is a matter of majority, if everyone say that a hacker is someone that cracks into a site and steal information who am I to disagree?
--
"take the red pill and you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabitt hole goes"
Re:respect (Score:1)
Back to the early 80's???? Hacking goes back a lot longer than that. Friend, you need to read the Jargon File [tuxedo.org]. The term "Hacker" goes back to the 1960s, if not even before.>
--
Actually, language evolves all the time (Score:1)
When I was young (shows how old I am), 'gay' meant something like cheerful, or happy. As far as I recall, it was only something like a couple of decades ago that it was taken over by the homosexual community for use as a word to describe themselves that didn't have insulting connotations. An argument could be made (and I'm just using this as an example) that there would be some justice in having the word reclaimed.
The fact is that language evolves all the time, particularly with euphamisms.
For example, 'toilet' was originally a polite word to refer to something else (I don't know what it was called before then), but when I was over in the U.S. I was a little surprised you dont look for public toilets, the word 'restroom' is now used instead. Last place I'd go for a rest
There are lots of other examples, which I won't go into here.
It's always a bit sad to see the language that we grew up with being 'corrupted', but I think every generation goes through that, and the language still survives and grows.
My objection with the 'hacker' vs. 'cracker' is not so much the terms that are used, but the fact that (in the popular media), confusion of the terms is connected with confusion of the two cultures.
It would be nice to think that hackers just using another word to describe themselves would help, but the problem is that many crackers regard themselves or want to see themselves as hackers, or just can't understand the difference. It is more glamorous to see yourself as an inventor than a vandal. This is part how I imagine the confusion got started in the first place (another part being distrust of anyone who can do things with such arcane devices as computers), and I suspect that this confusion (whatever terms are actually used) will always be there.
I wonder what restrooms will be renamed as when that starts to become an impolite word?
Roy Ward.
Re:Complete destruction (Score:1)
like that.
Re:Conspiracy theory (Score:1)