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Amiga

Amiga Reveals Future Design Plans 153

DrPsycho writes "The folks at Amiga International have put out some information about where their next generation computer systems might be headed. Jim Collas president of Amiga, gives a few tidbits in his ">Executive Update, but to cut to the juicy bits... they've posted concept drawings for their "next generation mulitmedia computer" due out in late Q4 of this year. These concepts look suspiciously like PalmPilots and iMacs, if you ask me. "
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Amiga Reveals Future Design Plans

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  • Right. It is often said that MacOS keeps the user out of the system. The word patronising may be suitable, but in a way it works the other way around. The System Folder in MacOS has a rather simple structure, which even rather computer illiterate people aren't afraid of going into. You put in extensions, control panels, font or whatever you need to have there.

    Sure, MacOS keeps you out of the core functionality of the system, but it also invites to the not-so-core functionality. Linux et. al (But not AmigaOS as much) alienates regular computer users by its structure. "/usr", "/etc", "/local"....come on...it isn't user friendly. Period.
  • Just thought I would share that with everyone who forgot. ;)

    Here are some URL's:

    The not very informative one:
    http://cnet.bigpond.com /Briefs/Guidebook/WhereNow/ss02.html [bigpond.com]

    The informative one:
    http://www.usawebsite.com/~aau g/1997/03/ss9703a.html [usawebsite.com]
  • >I'm inclined to call lack of memory protection a bug..

    I'll agree that this was not a good place to cut corners in the hardware. Not a bug though - if the hardware doesn't support memory protection the software can't do much about it.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    First of all, it does NOT defy common sense and logic trying to come out again with a new Amiga and AmigaOS.

    Rather, the author has a limited view and lack of imagination. There are many reasons why I think that the new launch of Amiga will be successful.

    There is currently a trend to move towards alternative operating systems other than Microsoft. Just look at the success of the iMac and Palmpilots. Both completely different and yet very successful. Why? they do exactly what you want them to do. Easy. Microsoft Windows is not easy and frequently does not do what you like.
    In fact, its frequent crashes is how it acquired its fame rather than with its marketshare.

    Amiga will be another competitor in a world which could use new innovative ideas. Amiga will be exactly that. Just remember, competition provides you with choice and quality. Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't provided me with any of that.

    Even if Amiga itself will not make it, it still might have a significant impact on the market by its innovative ideas it will no doubt introduce.
    And this is by no means a "cheap hooker with a wig".

    The Amiga from 1985 has had profound influences on the market by its revolutionary design and I am looking forward to their latest Amiga. In a world which is dominated by a few common architectures and operating systems, it will be a welcome addition to provide us with more choices.
    At this point, this is exactly what people want and need.

    If they can provide the quality and design we like, applications and support will soon follow.

    Amiga is not dead, there are developers actively working to bring you a brand new amiga. And of course it won't be exactly like the old machines. It, too, will have matured over time and bring you new technology and features.

    I congratulate Gateway and Amiga that they invest their money to give me choice and quality. To use a comparison, Netscape is the reason why Microsoft Internet Explorer is free and well worked on.

    And as far as I am concerned with the author of this thread. His story really does defy common sense and logic.

    I wish Amiga a lot of success with the launch of their new products.

  • Why optimism based just on the Amiga name? Well, the name represents a multi-processor architecture which is simply superior to the current iX86 (Wintel) or Mac platforms. Gateway ain't Commodore - there's a good chance they will realize this and preserve it as the core of what makes an Amiga special.

    Maybe not. You never know. But the selection of QNX as the core of the Amiga Next Generation OS is a very good, very promising decision.

    OK, sure, it could be pure crap covered in a thick layer of hype. But it could also be something very special.

    Dare to believe, Anonymous Coward, dare to believe!

  • by Fweeky ( 41046 )
    Then what happened to all this about Be dropping PPC support?
  • By the look of that big, cushy grip on the side the handheld is designed after the universal comm units from "Earth: Final Conflict."
  • The New AmigaSoft Operating Environment is being designed around the QNX Neutrino kernel. POSIX compliance and the like are being factored into the equation, so porting stuff back and forth between Linux and AmigaSoft shouldn't be a big deal. As for hardware dedication, AmigaSoft is apparently scheduled to be hardware independent in its implementation, so I don't think that'll work.

    All in all, it's nice to see *SOMETHING* emerge from the vacuum of secrets that has been the current Amiga.

  • One should also know that the AmigaOS was written on a VAX. (I'm not sure if it was Unix or VMS that was running on it) So a lot of the OS ideas came from Unix/VMS. Which contributed to some of the great ideas. It's still the only home computer that can mount a unix partition. :-) Or can mount filesystems created by other people, Windows NT can't even do that today!

    sri
  • I have to say that it doesn't work like that. SetFunction lets you replace a library function, and is meant for fixing bugs. Any "improvement" risks destabilising the system. Furthermore, removing patches safely is very difficult, and few if any programs do it properly.

    Furthermore, it is not always possible to change the internal behaviour of the OS by patches to external interfaces. When I patched a couple of AmigaGuide bugs, I found that I could only do so by modifying the existing machine code. Thankfully AmigaGuide gets loaded into writable memory.

  • Very good. OT, I believe Gateway is the current owner of the Amiga, and has established it as it's own subdivision: Amiga International. Hence the cheese and cow relationship isn't that far-fetched : ) miyax
  • by Anonymous Coward
    So, then, did you EVER own a personal computer before 1992? The Amiga, like ALL of its competitors for the home market, lacked memory protection because the processors didn't support such a thing. (Well, my AT&T 3b1 had it, but it was a Unix machine not meant for the home, and its MMU was custom made...)

    Sure, if someone developed an OS NOW that didn't use memory protection, it would be considered silly, but 13 years is a long time in the computer industry...
  • In quoting C:\windows you've already invalidated your own point.
    C:\"windows"--- Note the actual word.

    As opposed to /usr, /bin, /etc



  • The way I remember it the Amiga OS looked amazing for the time and wasn't at all buggy.

    AmigaOS was effectively in beta until OS 1.2. OS 1.3 was mostly a bug-fix release (though there were extras on disk). It didn't get really stable until 2.0.

  • "Amiga International Puts Out Press Release"

    In a shock move today, AMIGA INTERNATIONAL released a press release detailing plans for their new AMIGA platform. The computer, to be released Q4 1998^H9, is under intensive development. While no firm technical details are yet available, sources close to the company are quoted as saying the system will be "very cool". Expected to be fully trademark-compatible with the original COMMODORE AMIGA, the new version will be upgraded to full Y2K buzzword-compliance.

    ...

  • can someone say Guru meditation?
  • Protected memory slows the computer down? hardly. Relying on memory protection (especially in a computer doing ANYTHING but one task at a time) isn't a frivolity; it's a necessity.

    There's no way in HELL I'd trust a programmer to write a bug-free program, since I are one. :-) As long as your code is good, you shouldn't run against memory protection hardware. But if you slip up it's nice to know that (in theory at least) you won't bring down the entire ship.
  • What's kept the Amiga alive for the past 7 years has been the tireless efforts of many dedicated people. The antics of the "Amiga rulez, PCs suck!" crowd counteract that to a large degree. It's depressing that a single statement that can be construed in any way to be anti-Amiga will still tend to attract a wave of hate mail. It's that sort of behaviour that means I'm not using one at the moment...
  • Uh.. we've had plan9 here for years.

  • Well put.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Instead of holding their breath waiting for the next vaporware announcement from whoever owns the Amiga name today, anyone with an interest in preserving what was great about the Amiga should be working on getting those features working in a current OS and platform that has a future. Why wait? A new "Amiga," if it ever appears (and I'm skeptical) won't have anything in common with the old one unless it runs an emulator, while open systems like Linux are here today and would benefit from more multimedia features.
  • Well I hope it does come back in some form, more
    than likely I will purchase one.

    I got away from my Amy over the past few yrs
    and now I have acquired an A3000 and I really enjoy using it again. Now just to upgrade her.

    Long Live Amy!!
  • Why are they calling it an Amiga if it's a totally different computer? Get real, there's no other way it could be done - AmigaOS in it's current form simply couldn't be brought up to scratch - the likes of MP simply are not possible, not unless you want another Windows... the hardware is old, slow and expensive as hell, so OF COURSE they are making a new machine.

    QNX is a very suited OS to the Amiga - a fully real time, protected microkernel OS. OK, so it's not exec, but who cares if Exec doesn't cut it any more?

    I think some of you need to take a long hard look at the current crop of OS's.

    Linux is lame because it's totally baffling to just about everyone, and needs it's kernel recompiling just to change a few bloody drivers.

    Windows is lame because it can't do anything without touching the swap file, has a horrible GUI (so does Linux, btw, Windows is lame, but at least it has some sort of uniform look...), is a nightmare to fix when things go wrong, has... well, I'm sure you all know the problems by now :)

    BeOS is lame because nobody supports it, and it only support x86.

    AmigaSoft is aimed to be a bombproof OS, with a powerful and more uniform UI, which combines power, ease of use, stability and expandibility in the one OS, not, as it is now, spread out among many OS's. I just hope they manage it :)
  • What is the meaning of Amiga? It used to stand for a particular nifty hardware/software system that did cool stuff. But any new Amiga system will not fit that same definition because it will not be the same hardware or the same software as what we used to call an Amiga.

    What is it then? It is the embodiment of the spirit of innovation and coolness in computer hardware and software. Who cares what the Amiga NG is, just make it and make it cool. Even it is never commercially successful, it can still help advance the industry. The original Amigas never achieved market dominance, but think of what they did. Would we have multimedia the way we have today? Probably not. Think of all the pioneering multimedia apps that started on the Amiga and were then ported to other platforms. Lightwave. Truespace. Real3D. Elastic Reality. WCS. Think of all the PC/Mac apps that were written by ex-Amigans who had seen the light, and then seen the money elsewhere.

    I still program for Amigas. Why? Because I enjoy it, and despite making a living writing software, I still have to be able to enjoy it in order to justify getting out of bed in the morning and sitting at a keyboard all day. I do not enjoy programming for the Mac or Windows, but I do it for money. I think I would enjoy programming for the Be. Because it's elegant and different and cool, the same adjectives that you find when you look up Amiga in the thesaurus. Be is just defining a new synonym for Amiga, and I for one, approve.

    Don't get me wrong, the original Amiga had/has its problems, and deserves a just retirement. But the spirit must go on, and the more people pursuing their different visions of that spirit, the better.

    What does Linux/BSD have to do with Amiga? Much in spirit, little in substance. Linux embodies the same pursuit of elegance and coolness and difference as the Amiga, but with more of a technical power aspect rather than the visual whiz-bang. No screen hacks or Euro-demos for Linux. But that's ok, too. To each their own. I like them both.

    I don't think any new Amiga hardware needs to run Linux. It'd be neat if it _could_, and it probably will someday.

    All I really want to get across is that you shouldn't disparage the idea of Amigas (should new ones ever materialize -- I have my doubts) based upon what you didn't like about the old Amigas or their users or that you prefer Macs or Windows or Linux. Just recognise that new blood is good purely for the sake of new ideas.

    Nike says Just Do It.

    Amiga and Linux say Just Do Something Different.

    (Yes, I'm writing this on NetScape on my WinNT Intel PC. I'm a realist too.)
  • If the original operating sytem is poor, why not code another one?

    Some mad German programmers wrote an entirely new operating system for Atari computers a few years ago. It's called MagiC, and it uses pre-emptive multitasking, memory protection (if the hardware supports it), is coded in optimised assembler, and is compatible with most well-written software.

    Or, if you don't want to use MagiC on your Atari, there's MiNT, a freeware UNIX-like kernel which can be used to run X11, all your favourite UNIX apps (gcc, pine, lynx etc) and also runs most well-written software.

    Atari hardware may not be so great, but the software is amazing. Papyrus, CAB (now known as iCab), Texel, Photoline, Calamus, Cubase...
  • Posted by The Famous Brett Watson:

    You're right, Windows is complicated, and the structure of C:\Windows is only the surface of it.

    But you're wrong when you say that Windows only seems to be easier to use. Perceived simplicity is simplicity from an end-user standpoint. Windows is easier to use than any Unix because, for example, it has a desktop environment which provides a graphical view of files, and configuration by means of control panels rather than obscure text files with arbitrary syntaxes.

    Note that these niceties don't always help a power user -- in fact, they frequently get in the way. A power user knows what's going on, and when the user interface starts obscuring the facts about what's actually going on (as Windows often does), then the user interface becomes a patronising hinderance.

    It's my opinion that the presence of "wizards" implies that the whole underlying process has become too badly organised to be handled in a sane manner. Ironically, "wizards" would improve certain areas of Linux, but I'd prefer that the underlying processes were tidied up and proper graphical interfaces put in place -- not that I'm expecting it. When a wizard doesn't do quite what you want, you're back in the old situation of trying to figure out what the wizard actually did, and then modifying the underlying data files to suit. At least Unix tends towards partially inscrutible text files for configuration rather than completely inscrutible binary files.

    In my opinion, and getting back on topic, the Amiga is still the best example of a system which provided good ease of use without being patronising and getting in the way of people who knew what they were doing. The Mac is too patronising. Unix is inconsistent and makes you do all the work. Windows is a disaster area with a patronising front. The Amiga, I felt, was clean, friendly, and didn't treat the user like an idiot who needed protecting from the facts.

    Just another thing I miss from my computing experience in the post-Amiga world.

  • Maybe if they dedicated the Amiga to be the first Linux dedicated hardware, then it might gain a larger following... Maybe they should change the name due to its poor reputation...

    Hardware built from the ground up to run Linux would be awesome... (My pc at home was built for linux, but thats not what I mean)
  • I know the Amiga Intuition scrollbars have the wrong aspect ratio, but what do you expect after all these years with no development?

    They've been wrong since 1990 (OS 2.0), when everything else became scalable and the OS became able to handle arbitrary screen modes (rather than the 4 OCS ones and possibly A2024 modes. There were a further 2 years of development after that in which major features such as locale and datatypes support were added.

  • People overlook all the weaknesses of Open Source,
    the complexity of Unix that will NEVER bring it to
    the community that Windows owns, and god knows what else. Its a geek TREND, nothing else. If you're a self-imposed geek, its cool to like Linux and Open Source and nothing else.

    Thats all there is to it. Go ahead and flame me, but all one has to do is read enough /. and you'll see it for yourselves.

    Thank god all these 'geeks' aren't racists because the world would truely be screwed up with one sided ignorance with the likes that the KKK has never seen.

  • I don't follow. The PowerPC accelerators have sold in tiny numbers (I remember a figure of only 7,000 after nearly a year), and have been dogged by battles over competing OS extensions (WarpOS vs PowerUP). There is plenty of talk about other PowerPC accelerators (Escena, JoeCard, etc) but as yet these products are vapour.

    The accelerators that do exist have a very slow memory bus and no level-2 cache. They are not quality products. The only person I know reasonably well that bought one of these found that it no longer worked after he loaned it to Carl Sassenrath (Rebol and ex-AmigaOS developer) for a while!

  • I think people who pit Amiga vs Linux here are missing the point. There are different types of users with different goals and abilities. Right now, Linux is a workstation and server OS. The iMac isn't about shiny plastic and un-upgradability, it's about having an appliance for getting on the net, playing games and doing wordprocessing, which is what many user want. It's all they want. Windows is mainstream. It's what people run if they have no sense of adventure at all. The A1200 Amigas that you can buy right now, as you read this, are a cheaper, lower powered version of the iMac, with the ability to get at the innerworkings of the system that UNIX gives you. It's somewhere inbetween. You can think that that's what makes it better than both, or worse. I don't care, I use them all.
  • Why on earth would they put Linux on there - it's obviously aimed at being a easy-to-use games/internet machine, not a server! I know that yes, you can play games on Linux, and yes, it supports sound aand a little bit of OpenGL etc... but it's all rather shoehorned in, as far as I can tell.

    If you're going to go with a new machine architecture with an operating system with no (or hardly any) games written for it, why would you go for Linux? Far better to go for something that is much more multimedia friendly...

  • by Rustybrain ( 19567 ) on Sunday May 23, 1999 @11:36AM (#1882345)
    First of all, the Amiga isn't really dead. We still have Amiga
    Format, selling ~15.000 copies a month, as well as tens of other
    printed mags. Some of them really professionally done. The Video
    Toaster is still used lot's of places, as is Scala. They still do
    their job very well.

    However, the biggest proof of the Amiga still being alive is
    probably the user community. Although not of the same size as the
    Linux one, it is truely a special thing to be part of. Lot's of
    new free- and shareware is uploaded to the Aminet every day, and
    that's just a part of what is being released. The demo scene is
    very vibrant even these days, and Amiga coders are doing full
    screen texture mapping in 20 FPS even on the AGA chipset, which
    most people claimed was useless for anything like this a few
    years ago. Quake was released commercially for the Amiga, Myst was
    released commercially for the Amiga. All thanks to active users who
    have been pestering the software houses. We'll get Shogo this
    autumn as well!

    G3 and G4 boards are on their way, 603 and 604 boards are already
    out and quite well supported (though only as a co-pro to the existing
    68040 or 68060 processor - yet!) We have 3D boards and brill 16
    bit sound boards, and even the A1200 have proven to be quite
    upgradable. Just apply a bit of creativity and you can have lot's of
    equipment attached to even the clock header on the mother board!

    Sure, we're lagging a bit behind Wintel boxes hardware wise, and
    the OS still lacks some important functions, but we are having fun,
    and there's still lots and lots of stuff happening out there,
    and tens of thousands users proving that the Amiga is not dead.

    Together with the user community, I believe that there's still a
    good chance the Amiga can make a large comeback. Gateway isn't
    exactly poor either, and with the latest hirings of staff ... well,
    I belive they can do it.
    impressive comeback
  • This would be the Amiga OS 5 that isn't out yet, right? It's this sort of statement that drove a large number of people (including myself) away from the Amiga to a large degree - I don't know about anywhere else, but "Amiga user" is pretty synonymous with "Whining childish hatemonger" for a lot of people in the UK. While other platforms have advocates, they never seem quite so... vocal.

    Pity, really - there are several very sane people still involved with the Amiga, they just tend to get overwhelmed by the idiots. Still, I'm certainly interested in what AI come up with - at some point in the future it's likely to be a choice between that and an Alpha box running Linux...
  • I think that suggestions of Amiga hardware running Linux are pretty misplaced.

    Amiga Linux[1] has existed for many years. It was the first port of Linux to non-x86 hardware, and was done by Amiga people who wanted a better[2] OS.

    You talk about the essence of the Amiga coming from it's wonderful multimedia hardware and the people around it, and I agree. My first two computers were Amigas and I loved them. However, time has moved on. After Commodore's bankruptcy the Amiga community has been scattered to the winds, leaving only a tiny hard core, and the hardware and OS that made the Amiga amazing in 1989 are now obsolete.

    I don't see any reason why we old Amigans should get excited about this, or even any reason to call the new machine an Amiga: it will be entirely different hardware running an entirely different OS. It will presumably have an Amiga-like GUI but such things are already available[3]. If it runs old Amiga binaries it will in effect be running an Amiga emulator but such things are already available [4]

    The Amiga was a wonderful machine in its day but I'm afraid it's time to let it die...

    [1] see http://lxr.linux.no/source/arch/ m68k/amiga/?a=m68k [linux.no] and http://www.linux-m68k.org/faq/history.ht ml [linux-m68k.org]. Although the amiga version wasn't reintegrated into the linux source 'till 2.0 it did exist as a separate project.

    [2] for their definition of better, which is not necessarily yours.

    [3] http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiw m.html [lysator.liu.se]

    [4] UAE [linux.de] is written in C and runs under many platforms and OSes.
    Fellow [geocities.com] is written in x86 assembler and runs only in MS-DOS but is damn fast.
    I recommend having a look at one of these. Certainly brought back memories for me

  • I have an A4000 with dual 68060 & 604e PPC running AmigaOS and Linux APUS (Unoffiical RedHat 5.2) with Permedia2 graphics card - far from dead.
    (nearly 900 kkeys in RC5)
  • I know the Amiga Intuition scrollbars have the wrong aspect ratio,
    but what do you expect after all these years with no development?
    Sure, making Amiga OS open source would probably be a good thing to
    the community, but I cannot see how Amiga, Inc. would gain a lot from
    it.

    By the way, Visualprefs is getting pretty stable, and it makes your
    window borders look ace, amongst lots of other things. :) Get it from
    Aminet.

    With OS 3.5, we might just see an update to this as well. I think the
    current specs sound interesting, though I wish they would update the ROMs
    as well, and include RTG etc. They could call it OS 4.0 and sell
    lots more copies. Well, probably.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Not to forget the planar approach to graphics modes. This means you can construct a suitable color mode by just by adding bitplanes on top of each other. (Only need 2 colors? Let's use one bitplane. Need 4 colors? Let's use two bitplanes. 8 colors? Let's use three bitplanes... and so on.)

    What's more, with Copper (a simple, programmable co-processor that is tied to the vertical beam) you could easily change graphics modes, color modes and palettes dynamically in the middle of the screen. This allows some neat effects. PAL/NTSC compatability out-of-the-box is also a big plus for kiosk / multimedia applications.

    * * *

    In the PC/SVGA world, there are no comparable elegant means of doing anything; no room for neat hacks and intelligent tricks. Every graphics intensive application nowadays is accomplished by brute processing force... :( in the old days, it required some talent and creative thinking to get fast, colorful graphics running effectively on screen...
  • Ever look at c:\windows ?
    You can't tell me thats not complicated. The only reason Windows SEEMS easier to use than any unix variant is Windows has a standard GUI and developer kit. And the GUI is built-in which means people can equate things visually rather than logically by reading it on a CLI. Wzards make a big difference in handling complex projects, if someone would create visual scripting/wizards for *nix then all wouldb e well, and I would have to fsck with RPM anymore.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    I wish that picture wasnt posed on slashdot. Its a beta picture of ONE of the several designs Amiga can pick from for its custom machines. It is NOT based on the iMac, if people waited till all the pictures were out they would see thats just a monitor sitting on a standard desktop machine. As for the PDA that people say is insipred by the PalmPilot. It wasnt. Once people see the other pics you'll understand.

  • It's time people stopped thinking that you have to have the latest computer to do anything useful.

    If you don't want to play Quake XXXVIIII then even old Amigas are fine. You can utilise information on any computer.

  • Sorry, I wasn`t bashing the Atari community. I used to own an ST and am currently running Cyrix 333 with Viper 770 (TNT2) with Win98 and SuSE Linux 6.1 networked to my 060 & 604e PPC Amiga running AmigaOS and unofficial Redhat 5.2. It is definitely the Free Software community that is keeping the Amiga (and Atari) alive. The Amiga`s strong Unix background also helps
  • http://www.amiga.de/pics/products/concept/01_kyoto .jpg -- some more concept drawings.
  • In 1984 memory-protection actually did slow down systems. The PMMU of an MC68000 ate $30 and could slow systems down by 10-30%.

    And up to today memory-protection is a feature, not a neccecarity. Hey, Windows doesn`t have it until now and Bill can`t be wrong, can he? :-)

    Until 1994 not even one important massplatform OS featured memory-protection, why should have AmigaOS back in early 1984?
  • Sure you can upgrade an Amiga with Voodoo, Permedia2, PPC604e, 256MB RAM, UW-SCSI, 16Bit-Sound and so on but it costs a terrible-amount of money - expect for a uptodate-amiga something around $8000 as a minimum.
    I know better ways to get rid of that awfull number of bucks (most are illegal in religious nations :-)

    But you can also upgrade a CBM-64 to a 65416-66Mhz, 16MB RAM, 2GB Harddisk and CDROM but again I don`t think its worth it.

    I simply put my good old miggy (hey, the mighty Amiga3000 with 18MB-RAM, 1,4GB Harddrive, SVGA, Ethernet, MultiIO and so on in the slickest case mankind has seen until today :-) in a dry position and use it where I need it, but don`t invest anything into it.

    I`ll better buy more RAM for my server or a RivaTNT for Quake :-)
  • > I was a long time Amiga user ... started with A500 way back when, so
    > don't accuse me of not knowing my root.

    I've used Amigas for over 7 years. I run one of the most populour Amiga news
    sites.

    > So, let me see ... in year 2000, we're finally going to have a shot at
    > AmigaOS 4.0

    Erm, what? AmigaSoft, AKA AmigaOS 5.0 is the next gen OS. Not OS 4.0.
    You've obviously become lost in all the name changes (first OS 4, then
    OS5 Dev and OS5 Prod, and now AmigaSoft).

    4.0 is a possible future Classic Amiga OS to be developed by Haage and
    Partner (http://www.haage-partner.com/) although I somewhat doubt it will
    appear.

    > running on a CPU family that's almost as good as abandoned by its maker.

    You call x86, PPC and MIPS abandoned by their makers?

    > The OS has not been ported to any other CPU ...

    This isn't going to be a port, this is going to be a new OS. Please get your
    facts straight. OS 4, if it appears, will be a port to PPC, but as I said,
    I doubt that will appear.

    > granted, it can be
    > emulated on the PPC but the power of the PPC is wasted on emulation.
    > Brilliant.

    Erm, no. AmigaSoft is likely to emulate the Classic Amiga through something
    like UAE, but hopefully we won't need to except to see what computers used
    to be like...

    > It's doubtful the OS will ever have memory protection.

    Erm, AmigaSoft is to be based on the QNX kernel (Neutrino). With it's
    microkernel design, leaving pretty much everything running in user space, it
    probably has better memory protection than Linux. We are talking about the
    kernel which runs nuclear power stations and the space shuttle!!

    http://www.qnx.com/

    Read and learn.

    > Multitasking, sure.
    > Dont give me the crap about being able to multitask in 512K ... okay so it
    > can, but are YOU really going to have 512 in Y2K? I don't think so. Memory
    > is cheap, so this won't be an issue.

    Sure, memory's cheap, but effeciency is good. 4MB is quoted on the Amiga web
    site.

    > Will it be multiuser? Sure, in the sense that Microsoft Windows is
    > multiuser ... it's multiuser, just not-all-at-the-same-time.

    How the hell can you pretend to know this much about an OS that hasn't even
    been released yet?

    > Will it have remote management/remote display capability? Like X? Doubtful
    > ... you have to sit there in front of the monitor just like you have to
    > with Windows NT. Another plus.

    LOL! Neutrino has AMAZING network/remote management capabilities!
    Exporting the display is a build in OS feature. One of the demo's QNX
    performed to show the power of QNX was to network 2 machines, run Doom on
    one machine, and drag the window over to the machine next to it, so it was
    half on one machine's display, half on the others over the network. QNX is
    probably better than Linux in this respect.

    > The User Interface? Intuition? God, what a pig.

    The UI will be user-configurable (it will have different "skins" - it will
    have to if they want it to scale well).

    > Whoever designed this
    > thing has no aesthetic sense

    Good job different people are working on it then, hu?

    > ...it took them how long to come up with a decent common file requestor?

    Something, I hasten to add, yet to be achived by Microsoft :/

    > And the layers! the damn layers! the ROM code for handling layers is
    > broken beyond belief ... god, even talking about this is making me sick.

    So? Since when was this relevent to AmigaSoft?

    > Ex-Amiga coder

    You obviously left ages ago, or you've had your eyes closed for the past
    year.
  • Oh, you would be surprised at the number of A3000/A4000 systems out there running Scala for the multimedia info-channels for cable companies... :-)
  • I don't understand what you mean by "Linux dedicated" hardware. You mean hardware that goes out of its way to avoid supporting other OSes?

    As for the Amiga going Linux, it seems very unlikely. While Linux has been available for the Amiga for many years, most of the remaining Amiga users are still using AmigaOS. Unfortunately, while Linux has some huge advantages in terms of stability and software availability, Amiga users tend to favor efficiency. Maybe if the new Amigas have faster CPUs, efficiency will seem less important. But until then, Linux just isn't going to have a lot of appeal to Amiga folks.

    That's a shame too, since staying with a proprietary close-source OS is going to keep the Amiga in the same hostage situation she's always been in. :(

  • Winchips are "optimized" for the Windoze business model, not the Windoze OS. The main design goals of these kinds of things are:

    • Reduce price by making it "dumb" and let the x86 do the work
    • Spread FUD about other OSes

    A "LinuxModem" or "LinuxPrinter", by anology, would be optimized for the Linux way of doing things. In other words, it would be openly documented, perhaps come with some open source drivers, etc. But that kind of thing would actually be very useful for any OS, therefore it wouldn't make sense to label as a Linux-specific item. There will never be any hardware "optimized" for Linux.

  • Sure, we're lagging a bit behind Wintel boxes hardware wise, and the OS still lacks some important functions, but we are having fun

    You just summed it up perfectly. I personally don't care that my machine is old, slow and outdated. It's fun, and that's important to me. I'd rather use an old computer that I can have fun with than get involved in the "my computer is better, newer and faster than your computer" wars that seem so prevelant everywhere these days.

  • by Cptn Proton ( 29372 ) on Sunday May 23, 1999 @01:56PM (#1882375)
    It really is time that somebody classify, diagnose, and assign a name to this kind of behavior.

    The Amiga is clearly the walking dead of computing platforms. Existing in the netherworld of computing somewhere between the reality of a viable business to a company being reduced to paper filled cardboard boxes in a storage unit. All the while tormenting former users with empty dreams of support and innovation.

    Thus, the amiga is "Zombieware". Remember, this is where it was first defined.

    Some may ask "is this not Vaporware??". No, it is not. Vaporware comes primarily from companies that actually are producing some kind of product and seem to have a viable existance.
    In other word, Zombieware makes Vaporware look good.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I'm sick and tired of reading posts from "amiga" owners who quite clearly had no idea what they were doing when they owned one (if they ever did.)
    Imagine if I came on slashdot and complained about Linux only running on a 386, neglecting to mention that I was running the original release - to me this is akin to some of these posters complaining that the 1.3 looks shite. Well yes it might have done with hindsight but it's kind of irrelevant in todays Amiga climate. Has anyone here actually seen a modern Amiga (I'm not talking about the NG)? No? Didn't think so. So if anyone has anything to say on this subject in the future, at least give do us all a favour and do some research.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Some guy named "Clown Sex" posted this one a while back on ISCA. I think this about sums up all the fanaticism and disillusionment of amiga peoples..


    Skal leaned over the window ledge in the old bell tower. He
    peered through the scope of his high powered precision sniper rifle.
    He saw his target move into the crosshairs. He picked up the necklace
    he was wearing and kissed it. The necklace was given to him by Jay
    Miner, and was actually a FAT AGNUS chip with a hole drilled into it.
    Under his breath, he began to recite:
    "God, give me the strength and the power to do resist and to
    fight evil and oppression in this world,
    the power of an Amiga 1000. In 1984,
    4096 colors,
    Preemptive multitasking,
    68000 microprocessor at 7.14 Mhz,
    Keyboard drawer,
    Video toaster,
    Hardware sprites,
    Hold and Modify pictures,
    Stereo sound --" Just then, Skal was spotted in the bell
    tower, and the police quickly ran up and captured him.

    As they dragged him away he could be heard yelling, "If the Amiga
    didn't have so many god damn features -- even in 1984 -- I would
    have succeeded in my mission! God damn it!"

    Because of the public outrage over Skal's action, and to avoid
    any problems that could arrise from him being in the general
    prison population, they stuck Skal in solitary confinement, in
    Mexico.

    Days were long for Skal, he mostly spent his time reading computer
    magazines from 1989, and trying to braid his pubic hair.

    One day, he heard the door to his dark, stank cell unlock. A guard
    let himself in. He hit Skal in the head with a nightstick, and Skal
    was out cold.

    When skal awoke, he was lying on sandy soil. He woke up and rubbed
    his eyes. in this distance, he saw a pyramid. What the hell was going
    on?

    A voice boomed out from behind him. "So, we meet again."

    Skal spun around and saw hero-turned-supervillian Paul Norman of
    Cosmi fame! Skal ran towards him, issuing futile punches. Paul Norman
    did some C-64 god-type-shit and beat up skal.

    As Skal was lying bewildered onthe ground, Paul Norman spoke up, "Ok
    you shitbag. Here's the deal. You remember my masterpiece creation
    Aztec challenge? Well, you couldn't beat it then and you can't beat
    it now. "

    Just then, hundreds of microsoft employees, wearing loincloths and
    holding spears came out of the pyramid, and lined up in two lines.

    "To get to the pyramid, you have to run down this corridor constructed
    of microsoft programmers. You must run at a consistent pace. You can
    not slow down or speed up. At a random interval, a microsoft
    programmer will throw a spear at you. the spear will either be 4
    inches off the ground, in which case you will have to jump over it,
    or 4.5 feet off the ground, in which case you will have to duck. A
    brand new Amiga-NG will be waiting for you at the pyramid."

    Skal began his journey. On the third spear, he jumped too soon, landing
    on the spear, ending his life. But he had Paul Norman music played
    at his funeral.
  • I hope they succeed - it's not a good idea to rely on vague promises from the owners of the Amiga name.

    The Amiga and Atari computers seem to be fairly similar in their situations - they were both abandoned by their original developers around 1993 (the Atari Falcon030, Atari's last computer, was supposed to be the beginning of a long range). Now they're being kept alive by their fans...
  • One should also know that the AmigaOS was written on a VAX.

    It was mainly developed on Sun 2s using an assembler and the Green Hills C compiler. Parts of it are still built using that compiler! I don't know what you think was developed on a VAX. Perhaps TRIPOS (from which AmigaDOS was derived)was available for the VAX? TRIPOS is, however, a TRIvial Portable OS, so I don't see that that's important.

  • Are you sure you're not thinking about the ST? (Anyone remember that old flamewar?)

    The way I remember it the Amiga OS looked amazing for the time and wasn't at all buggy. The *apps* were a different matter though. IMO this was because the microcomputer community - more specifically the game developers - were still learning how to code for a preemptive multitasking OS. In the end most of them gave up and just disabled multitasking and took over the system. I remember one coder boasting that the only OS call he ever used was forbid(), not seeming to realise that this wasn't anything to be proud of.

    As for how Workbench looked; by today's standards it was a bit clunky, but for the time it was awesome. I still remember a TV programme where they demo'ed an A1000 showing the King Tut picture (impressive enough) and then dragged the screen down to reveal the Boing demo running on the desktop behind it. That was when I knew I had to get an Amiga. Fifteen years on I've only recently found a way to get the same feature on a PC : thank-you, Enlightenment and Linux.
  • In the PC/SVGA world, there are no comparable elegant means of doing anything; no room for neat hacks and intelligent tricks.

    VGA supports planar modes up to 16 colours. Current PC graphics chips have graphics coprocessors with similar abilities to the copper (only much faster). What you miss is the ability to access these directly without a driver getting in the way.

  • >The specific machines will mimic the A500/A2000
    >marketing system (cheap home machine (which is
    >very much missing from the market you must
    >agree) and a desktop).


    A cheap home machine... How about a econo-box Celeron 300A with i740 video card? How much does that cost in your neighbourhood? Less in today's dollars than that old A500!

    Hard disks, memory modules, and monitors are going to cost the same, no matter how you're using them.

    I surely don't want to see those all-in-one-inside-the-keyboard abominations again...


  • >can someone say Guru meditation?

    I used GOMF to banish them. Worked pretty well too, although without hardware support it couldn't catch everything.

    I assume this won't be a problem on any new Amigas since they'll be using a PPC with onboard memory management, correct?



  • by gavinhall ( 33 ) on Sunday May 23, 1999 @07:06PM (#1882390)
    Posted by The Famous Brett Watson:

    I don't know whether this latest batch of promises and vapour will materialise into something solid and worthwhile. Wake me up when it's actually in the shops, because I lost heart years ago and gave up on the Amiga, at least as far as being interested in what's supposed to be coming next.

    I have a few Amigas lying around amongst my various pieces. I don't remember what happened to the original A1000, and I don't really care, since it was only of historical interest. The A2000s I have are becoming terribly long in the tooth and hard to maintain. I'm running out of monitors that work, and I have to cannibalise one to fix the other now and then. This makes using the Amiga less than a joy. I only use it for the things that the PCs just can't do, and for the occasional bit of nostalgia.

    Although I've basically given up on the Amigas I have lying around the place, I haven't given up on the essence of Amiga. This is best explained by comparision with Linux. Linux is a robust implementation of Unix, it's free, and it comes with the source code. That description, although accurate, completely fails to capture the essence of Linux. The essence of Linux, and of Amiga, is the sense of being part of a large, creative community of people who are truly passionate about their use of computers. Contrast this with anything Microsoftian.

    On the other hand, Linux and Amiga are two very different things. The one will never be the other, and there's no reason why they should. It would be nice if the two communities would work on their similarities rather than their differences, of course. We know about the strengths of Linux, so let me reintroduce the strengths of the Amiga to those who have forgotten (or never knew).

    Amiga was the epitome of multimedia. The Amiga had been around for years before the term "Multimedia PC" was coined to describe a PC that came with a CD-ROM drive, sound card, and a pair of jam-tins-on-string speakers. The Amiga didn't just have sound and graphics capabilities, it had well-implemented sound and graphics capabilities. The entire architecture screamed out "make me do cool stuff!" It inspired an entire sub-culture of demo-coders. It could do stuff with one meg of memory and one floppy disk that would stop people in their tracks and make them look. The enthusiasm and passion for coolness possessed by the designers of the Amiga exuded out of it and inspired you to use it in cool and creative ways.

    Linux is no substitute for the Amiga, folks. I have to explain this to those of you who never experienced the essence of Amiga first hand. Linux has its own essence, and a good one at that, but I really would rather have both than just Linux. I like to do cool stuff on-screen and genlock it over video. I have a game-show which runs this way on ten year old Amiga hardware, and I haven't been able to get a PC to do the same thing yet.

    Whether or not Gateway (or whoever else may come into ownership of the Amiga trademark) succeeds in creating a new Amiga is not my main concern. I'm not waiting for the next computer which has "Amiga" stamped on the case. I'm waiting for the next computer which embodies the essence of Amiga, and I think it will be a hard task to produce such a machine. The PC architecture is chronically un-cool but it's the most economically viable thing to produce: anything else starts at an economic disadvantage. Then there's the question of what software it will run.

    It's not a question of Linux or Amiga, and I think that suggestions of Amiga hardware running Linux are pretty misplaced. The essence of Amiga is up-front cool fast right-now happening in-your-face stuff, and the essence of Linux is low-down foundational stability and dammit we own the computer right down to the hardware none of this "licensing" and denial of responsibility by software vendors crap.

    There is one final point which does bear mentioning: can the Amiga ever be the same again without also being open source? Well, I don't have the answer to that. I'd prefer it if all the software was open source and the hardware was commoditised and available everywhere, cheaply, but I can live with options not quite so rosy as that. Bear in mind that the original Amiga hardware and OS was proprietary, under any reasonable definition of the word, but it was never secretive. You never got the feeling that some company was keeping secrets from you so they could hook you in and screw you over later.

    You frequently did get the feeling that the upper management of Commodore were quite possibly the stupidest beings ever to stand on the face of the planet, but that's a different story.

  • by Kestrel ( 1301 ) on Sunday May 23, 1999 @12:09PM (#1882393) Homepage
    Owning an Amiga anytime in the last decade has put you automatically into the soap opera of ups and downs that Amiga has experienced.

    When it first came out, and for a good while, Amiga was hands down the BEST damn home computer you could buy. It did things that lesser operating systems STILL can't do, or have just recently added.

    The soap opera was bad enough with Commodore, but when Commodore went belly up, it just got worse. Passed from owner to owner, each holding out some hope of a new product. The fact is that the Amiga remains stuck in the same form it was when Commodore went under.

    The Amiga Soap Opera is mainly one of broken promises. Like Amiga STILL doesn't have a Java enabled browser, even though one has been "almost done" for like years. Escom never did anything they promised. Now Gateway has let all the original dates slip by that they promised to make this or that available. Now we see napkin drawings and are supposed to get excited?

    I think it is important for all true Amigians to realise that whatever Gateway is making, it isn't an Amiga. I mean, if they are going to start over from scratch and create a machine based on QNX instead of AmigaOS, why the hell are they calling it an Amiga?

    IF they get anything off the ground, my guess it will be some intel based system with standard hardware and a sorta Amiga looking GUI. Won't run anything from anyone. Will somehow stay in existance defying logic and common sense, cause, well, that is just what Amiga does.

    The truth of the matter is that the Amiga is well and truely dead. Let her rest in peace. Let her go, my fellow Amigans. Whatever Gateway might possibly make won't have AmigaOS, won't have any sort of special graphical co-processors, won't have Amiga programs that can run on it. It will be some cheap hooker with a wig thrown on to look like the long dead love.

    At this point, I have no clue WHY Gateway spent good money on technology they will never use and a name that everyone has forgotten. It defies common sense and logic.

    But, that is what the Amiga has done best anyway...

    Rest in Peace, Amiga.

  • Either that or it's based on the new Psion units - they looks seriously cool with full colour screens and pen interface. I like the leather strips they look like they'll use. Seriously mean looking units.
  • Killed by proprietary hardware and crappy marketing. Doomed to spend the rest of eternity as one of the walking dead. With OS/2 on your left and DR/DOS on your right, your loyal followers still search for the book of the dead, which may contain the magical incantations that will resurrect you. But probably not.
  • I for one support anything that is not "PC" hardware or wintel based. I am visually minded (extremely so), and UNIX just plain pisses me off. So does DOS. I for one am not a fan of typing in a lot of hooey to get where you're going, and while I've never used an Amiga beyond video toast, I'll bet money that it's a hell of a lot better than what's out there now. Heck, anything would be. The Law of Ninety Percent Shit applies to everything in the computer world as well as the real world- 90% of the Users I know are either elitist pigs or idiots, same as the real world. I think Amiga is near the end of its 90% phase. Of course, being an advocate of both the Amiga AND the Mac will probably get me kicked off this site, but screw it! Visual users need to be represented as well. Every OS I've used has serious issues in it, and for me the Mac solves most of them. But then, just try to debabelize 1500 targa files. There are some things you CAN'T do with Mac. Great. I accept it. I'm still not buying a PC: i've heard too much Mac bashing by Users and frankly I think it speaks of ignorance and bias- I know enough about both mainstream operating systems to destroy them and necessitate a reinstall if need be, while the average "Mac Sucks" person doesn't know that oyu need to empty the trash to delete your data. I'm seeing the same general sort of attitude toward the Amiga. I think it will be great, simply because what is avaialable now is so rotten. And I've always favored the underdog. Following the 90% theory, it is a natural extrapolation that whatever is apporved of by The Majority is obviously hideously flawed in some way- we have Microsoft, the Bible, and the US governement to prove this little concept.

    Bring back the damned Commodore already!
  • "You frequently did get the feeling that the upper management of Commodore were quite possibly the stupidest beings ever to stand on the face of the planet, but that's a different story."



    HAHAHAHA!!!!



    This would have to be the best quote relating to the mismanagement abilities of Commodore yet!! :)


  • WinChips really aren't optimized for windoze. That's just a name they came up with. It's marketing, nothing more.
  • Dr Allan Havemose, Vice President of Engineering at Amiga Inc., was Manager of Amiga Software Development and Director of Systems software for AmigaOS 2.1 to 3.1 (the latest version) at Commodore, so there's at least some link to the old Amiga. Also, he has claimed that the intent is to make the OS bear quite a lot of resemblance to the current AmigaOS. Of course, it will be completely different, but retaing some of the feel of AmigaOS.
  • What a piece of clap trap! If you were a real Amigan you would know that Amiga is making what Jay Minor the father of Amiga wanted.

    That's Miner.

    Also, do really thing that by AmigaOS5 it would still by useing the same system? Even back at C= it was said 4 would be the between stage and 5 would be 100% new.

    Er, C= died long before OS 4 was mentioned. These labels were announced on 15 May 1998 by Amiga Inc (and then shortly revised).

    Since you obviously dont know anything about the subject I suggest you do some research.

    Why don't you try that, first?

  • Your last point is a good one,

    IF they manage to get something SPECIAL, MIGHTY and IMPRESSIVE done, Ill will be very likely to buy it - and would it be just to remember the good old days. Back in 1987 my first amiga cost me quite a lot, but then I had to pay it by working after school and pocketmoney.

    "Never had sex" is already sad, but "Never had an amiga" really sucks :-)
  • BeOS is here now. Developers are writing modern apps for it now. Amiga OS (if it ever comes) will be too little too late.
  • I remember compiling on Lattice C, the M68K's, dedicated processors named Denise, Agnus, and Paula. Those were the days. I even have my Amiga System Programmer's Guide from Abacus books. Hmmm, I fear that Amiga shall never recapture its former glory. I hope that I am wrong. I would love to return to my roots, and program once again for the Amiga. I miss my workbench.
  • Nah. He means hardware optimized for Linux and is less general. Sorta like them WinChips.

    --

  • PC architecture is and always will be pathetic in comparison to almost any current generation of 16/32/64bit architecture. The OS, was brilliant in its days due to its small overhead. Against same cpu in a mac, Amiga kicked.
    What OS do u know of that multitasks so sweet in even 256k RAM. If you ever owned an Ami and others saw it running, you will probably remember a number of times people get amazed at its capabilites.
    Amiga is a nice multimedia machine that admittedly can improve - which is why I am hanging out for their adoption of QNX.
    Still dissagree? download the single disk qnx demo and see what its like
    it sure reminds me of using my ami
  • I'd love to be given the chance to buy an Amiga again. I really think that Linux has a place in the server environment. But I doubt very much that it's ever going to take over the desktop market. The UNIX structure is just too complicated for many users.
    I'd like to see Amiga on the desktop and Linux at the server.

    But can we trust Amiga any more? Remember AAA, and the Walker?
    They dropped AAA at the last moment. And the Walker was a hoax. Who's to say that this is much the same thing? I honestly can't think what they have to gain by leading us on, but all we have to go by is a vague letter from the president and a sketch that I could've done.

    I'll get excited when I see more.

  • Where's Dave Haynie when you need him?

    Dave Haynie designed and implemented the Amiga's Zorro III and was working on its successor in the late days of Commodore. When he discovered PCI, he knew that there was no point in creating Zorro IV since PCI would be at least as good and much cheaper. If you don't believe me, ask him yourself. He's not hard to find.

  • You make a good point, but to say that the Linux and Amiga communities are creative is unfortunately somewhat wrong. While both the Amiga and Linux communities live on the creativity of a vast number of users, they are also plagues by an enourmous destructivity and negativity seen nowhere else in the computing world.

    I like going to Amiga shows and meeting creative Amiga people. It's fabulous! But I'm put down by the whining and flaming that comes with these communities.

    The MacOS community is very nice though. The few there that are skilled in technology are very respected, but also the ones that excel in other areas gain respect and admiration from others. And, above all, it focuses on what you can do with your computer and what you can teach others to do.

    I use MacOS, AmigaOS, Linux and Windows extensively. The Amiga community I follow because, at its best times, its a nice family. I follow the Linux community because of my interest in technology. The MacOS community, however, is something I'm part of because it constantly enriches me and rewards me.

    This is NOT advocacy, it's just what I feel, and there's always room for improvement in the communities....

  • I couldn't care less whether it is an Amiga or not.
    Whether they brand it a Amiga or something completely new, who even cares.

    I'm just hanging out for something new, ANYTHING new. Whether it's good or not remains to be seen.
    I'm completely sick and tired of the current hardware situation. Intel think that putting serial numbers in CPU's is the way to go, and I can't buy a Mac because I don't look like a hippie. Maybe something new, and intelligent (like the Amiga was back then) would help re-instate my trust in the industry. If it weren't for Linux and open source I would've got the Abacus out ages ago.
  • its on the wrong side. Looks like they designed the PDA for Left-handed people. I would rather hold it with my left hand and operate it with my right. maybe if the grip is reversable, though.... I wanna see the price first, but i might buy one. I was too young to have used one of the originals, but now, maybe i'll give it a chance.
  • I think what people miss are the heady days when there were lots of different systems they could get hot under the collar advocating. Now its all Intel, with the dark side from Redmond set to take over the whole planet. Lack of competition isn't just unhealthy, it's also no fun. Thank God for Linux and its kin!

    Yes, I am one of the many Amiga -> Linux converts. Just got a new machine with RH6 and GNOME, and already I'm in love :)

    I still have 2 of my Amy's (an original EHB 1000, and a 3000/040) and I still marvel at some of the stuff in AmigaOS. I even have FreeBSD on the latter. I think we have all forgotten just what a kickin' bit of kit it was, and how far other things have come in the meantime.

    A real OS with pre-emptive multitasking. Extensible file system and library API. Core libraries in ROM; boots in seconds into a full desktop GUI - from floppy. Library and driver management still kicks the whatsit out of the Windows DLL and SYS files. I have 3 versions of AmigaOS on the SAME 49Mb hard drive partition, with room to spare for software.

    PC's at the time had DOS, and the nearest thing to a GUI was GEM. The Mac had a comparable GUI, but no CLI.

    Unparalleled GUI for its day - multiple screens in different video modes, cunning colour support, graphics co-pro's, variable bitplaning. Hardware scrolling for larger-than-monitor frame buffers.

    Built in stereo sound. ChipRAM is brilliant in concept. Genlock capability. Hardware support for 2 mice (none in a PC back then) - remember 2 player Lemmings?

    Plug and play hardware - that WORKED. In the mid 80's. PC's are *still* bogged down in the IRQ blues.

    The A2000 and B2000 - a "proper" man size box. Expansion slots for both Zorro and AT bus. Bridgecards. All excellent.

    Then the A3000 - true 32 bit system, built-in fast SCSI. Sensible form factor. When it came out, it was the fastest desktop machine on the market, bar none. For years, the fastest Mac you could buy at any price was an Amiga with an emulator board. They even did a Unix version, crock though it was.

    Deluxe Paint - what can I say?! Dan's Xerox heritage shone through there. Photoshop and the GIMP are only now coming up to its level.

    The community of shareware and PD - second to none. Windows and Linux still don't have that. Remember Fred Fish, and the ab20 ftp site?

    And the games, we can't forget those. They were its greatest strength, and ultimately what held it back.

    There were also many things that sucked, and were done wrong...

    488 byte per sector filesystem - whose idea was THAT? And not having directory files - not good in an advocacy war :) At least FFS and then DCFFS saved us all from slow disc access.

    The 3000's graphics were too little, too late. They stayed with TV standards too long. The flicker fixer was a horrid kludge. Why couldn't the 3000 write straight to the fixer's expensive static RAM buffer and give 800x600x4096?

    What was all that with the softkick 3000? Give us a break! Dual boot was handy for poorly coded software though. Before I upgraded mine with the 2.04 ROMs to support the '040, I munged it around to get it to load the 1.4 Beta Workbench - wierd man, very wierd. Augustus John icons. Glad it never saw the light of day.

    Half speed drives for 1.44/1.76 Mb formats - a nasty bodge. Ever tried to BUY one? Impossible to get. Mine cost a fortune to import from the USA. Chinon must have made a mint.

    AGA - again, too little too late. Tied down by hardware compatibility for the games market. Should have had 24 bit colour at 0124x768, and a blitter with a (simple) 3D transform engine.

    CDTV had potential, as did CD32, if they'd been marketed right. But they weren't.

    The 500Plus - a bodge, and poorly marketed. That acursed ECS chipset again. I had a 68030 in mine which made it livable, but had to give it up for the more sensible A3k.

    The 4000/030 - an overpriced joke. Where was the damn MMU??? No OS support for memory protection and virtual memory - a big mistake there.

    Lack of decent and timely networking support - $hundreds for a 10-Base2 card. PARnet was great though - still have my homemade A1000 cable. Xetec's SCSI LAN was hairy but very fast :)

    If you still have an A500 in your cupboard, dust it off and plug it in to that TV, have a quick game of Menace, or Xenon 2, or Shadow of the Beast. Shed a quiet tear. You have a ground breaking piece of computer history in your hands. Never let it go.
  • It`s the so called "whining childish hatemonger" that has kept the Amiga platform alive for the past 7 years. Every week since Commodore`s demise, somebody declares the Amiga dead.
    Commodore is gone, Escom is Gone
    Atari is gone
    Sega Saturn & Sony playstation have been and are going (not to mention the SNES, & Megadrive (Genesis))
    Acorn is gone
    Sega is on it`s last legs
    and the AMIGA is STILL here. Pretty amazing really.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    What a piece of clap trap! If you were a real Amigan you would know that Amiga is making what Jay Minor the father of Amiga wanted. Also, do really thing that by AmigaOS5 it would still by useing the same system? Even back at C= it was said 4 would be the between stage and 5 would be 100% new. Since you obviously dont know anything about the subject I suggest you do some research.
  • I still own my 3000T and a 3000 pizza box. Neither of them work at the moment though. One of these days I'll have to ship them back east for repairs.

    Any how, the point is more like the ideas and concepts could be somewhat up to date even still though the means is sadly not on par. So I have to agree with you there.

    I also use Linux all the time and find that the UI, graphical or not can be as ugly or spiffy as you like along with the many different packages you have to choose from. I never really liked the way the Amiga WB looked either until I used NewIcons with it. (Never was a fan of MagicWB =). )

    BeOS is supported on Intel based systems yes. It also runs natively on PPC architecture quite well. You mentioned it was only x86. Also for the reasons I used the Amiga, Be was and is the main company around that fills the gap that my burnt out Ami's have left behind. Linux right now is doing a great job of filling that niche rather nicely too. I'm referring to my musical hobbies. MS Windows has it's fair share of decent apps etc for that as well. I just choose not to use MS products when I can get away with it. My own little hangup I guess.

    Keep up the good work Linux Developers!

    Oh and one more thing...

    I sincerely believe that my experience with the Amiga is the main reason why I wasn't scared to try Linux and actually learn to use it (As pitiful as I am at this point)

    So I'm kinda suprised a former Amigan would find Linux or possibly any other Unix beyond them. Of course though, you can't hide in WB, ie. a WM or DT environment in Linux until you compile and install X first. =) I've logged many an hour without bothering with loadwb in the startup-sequence. Nowhere close to using Linux but the closest I ever came before I did.

    I wish the Amiga well and can only hope I have enough to afford one sometime to add to my collection...
  • So? You've just described OS3.5, for existing Amiga users who want an upgrade to their existing machines. This has nothing to do with the new machines, which will be a new architecture running a new OS, based on QNX.
  • by epaulson ( 7983 ) on Sunday May 23, 1999 @10:05AM (#1882433) Homepage
    Try this one:

    Executive Update [amiga.com]

A transistor protected by a fast-acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing first.

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