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Kingdom Hearts II Sells A Million 61

Opposable Thumbs reports that Kingdom Hearts 2 has sold a million copies here in the states. From the article: "Squeenix deserved this home run, and it'll be interesting to see how well Final Fantasy XII does in America after its perfect score in Japan, but lukewarm reception of the demo in North America. Even with Final Fantasy there are no guarantees, and Squeenix has to be glad they have another high-performing franchise under their belt so that the big-haired emo kids of FF don't have the burden of the entire company on their shoulders." It really does get better after the first two hours.
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Kingdom Hearts II Sells A Million

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  • Snobbery and RPGs (Score:5, Interesting)

    by medeii ( 472309 ) on Wednesday May 03, 2006 @05:43PM (#15257631)

    OK, so in the last story, people wondered why KH2 was selling so well. I responded that the sales were for two reasons:

    1. There's been a dearth of other RPGs worth buying, for the past year
    2. KH2 is a well-made game

    Most of the people responding to that comment figured that I either was simply unaware of, or ignoring, so many other games. (I was ignoring them, since they didn't hold any interest for me; most of them were not high sellers, indicating that they didn't hold any interest for a lot of other people too.) Several posters took it upon themselves to bash the Kingdom Hearts series as "not [a] real RPG", claiming that despite battle systems, experience points, and a distinct leveling system -- nah, they don't qualify. Final Fantasy -- arguably one of the largest RPG franchises in the world -- was quickly brought up as the "RPG for wimps."

    So here are my questions:

    • Why are RPGers so snobbish about what games they'll call an RPG?
    • Why are people like me, who prefer storyline, graphics, music, and "fun" gameplay over interminable level-grinding and cheap-move boss fights, so disdained?
    • What unique qualities make an RPG different from other games?
    • 1)Those are people from the D&D world who claim if you aren't making the story, it isn't an rpg. Ignore them- while D&D can be fun in person, turning them into computer games results in boring, pointless wastes of time with little story and a complete lack of fun- see Baldur's Gate, NWN, and TES lines

      2)See reason 1.

      3)Depends on what school you come from- the D&D school or the FF school. I'd say the Kingdom Hearts is definitely an RPG. Not one I'd buy (not being a huge Disney fan, and think
      • Re:Snobbery and RPGs (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        pointless wastes of time with little story and a complete lack of fun- see Baldur's Gate, NWN, and TES lines

        Feeds the troll...

        Um, no. Baldur's Gate +sequels +expansions have extremely detailed plots. You may or may not enjoy them, but the poblem is NOT with the story. Further, while the NWN single player story was a bit of a snoozefest, there is sooo much entertaining user created content that the game is worth the price of admission EVEN IF YOU IGNORE the included single player content.
        • I played BG. I couldn't find anything that remotely resembled a story. I've been told that if I put more effort into it there was one, but I have better things to do. As for NWN- I bought it at release. There was no user made content. Perhaps enough was made later, but you know what? If the game doesn't have enough stuff out of the box to be fun, wiuthout relying on a mod community, then the game is a failure. If I wanted to play user designed campaigns, I'd play real D&D.
      • Re:Snobbery and RPGs (Score:4, Informative)

        by giorgiofr ( 887762 ) on Wednesday May 03, 2006 @06:01PM (#15257789)
        WTF! Are you on crack? You call Baldur's Gate (2) "boring, pointless wastes of time with little story and a complete lack of fun"? Did you even bother *playing* it? Sheesh... the heresy.
        • I'm guessing he got turned off a the point where a favorite party member gets kidnapped at the beginning of the game and you're forced to go on side-quests to make enough money to get her back. Right at the start of the game. "Here's a little taste of plot BOOM SIDE QUESTS!!!"

          Still, Minsc for the win!
          • Except you know, it only takes a couple sidequests to make 10,000 gold, in fact, there are single quests that will give you 10,000 gold (Especially if you don't mind doing the evil thing)
      • Not one I'd buy... but its definitely an RPG.

        Have you played KH? I feel the same way about the FF series as you do, and was loathe to even touch the thing, but I bought it for my girlfriend and finally picked it up after listening to her sing its praises nonstop.

        Even with all my preconceptions of "oh God, weapons-grade cuteness," it sucked me in. It deserves the praise and the sales. The story is engrossing and the play is addictive; it's the first game in a long, long time in which I found myself

    • Why are RPGers so snobbish about what games they'll call an RPG?

      Because most of 'em have no life - who's got time for a life if they play RPGs? Of course, they have more of a life than simulation players... Beating your average RPG takes less than 24 hours of gameplay these days. I've had games of Alpha Centauri that took 36 or 48 hours, and that's just one game. (No, I didn't play it all at once.)

      Why are people like me, who prefer storyline, graphics, music, and "fun" gameplay over interminable l

      • Branching isn't required. Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, etc have no branching.

        I'd call it an RPG if it has: 1)An involved storyline 2)Menu based battle mechanics. An xp system isn't necessary. A real time battle mechanic takes it from rpg to action or adventure.
        • 'Menu based battle mechanics', although common, definitely aren't a requirement. Forgotten so soon about Oblivion? And Diablo didn't have menu driven battles either. And as far as mmorpg's like WoW it's questionable to call the action bar a "menu".

          I'm curious as to why you say an xp system isn't necessary? Consider an 'xp system' to mean, in general terms, a system for improving statistics related to your character(s). What examples are there of RPGs that don't have that? That sounds like the basic requi
        • I, personally, think a menu based battle system makes it boring, not an RPG. Why would a menu based battle system be required for a role playing game? Doesn't that distract from the role you are supposed to be playing? Doesn't that take away from the game element as well? I consider RPGs to be quest driven stories where you take on the role of a character and lead a party. Often times with leveling, but always with collecting items of some type.
        • You can have an RPG without battles. It's just that nobody's doing that. Or maybe they are if you consider adventure games RPGs. If you're playing through a whodunnit with character sheets that define specifics of your role and a GM it's an RPG, after all.
    • Re:Snobbery and RPGs (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Valdrax ( 32670 ) on Wednesday May 03, 2006 @06:25PM (#15257986)
      Why are RPGers so snobbish about what games they'll call an RPG?

      Welcome to the world of geekdom, where people have screaming arguments over whether vi or emacs is a better editor, what sci-fi series is best, and how any product that you like that competes with a product they like is a clear sign of your moral and mental inferiority.

      Gamers who like one type of game frequently disparage the other types because of same sort of stupid pride that leads to platform and editor flamewars. Rather than admit that we all like different games and that that's okay, they'd rather go off about how people who enjoy something they don't are idiots.

      This is unfortunately human nature and is only curable with maturity.

      There's a site called The Forge [] that's been wrestling with what is an RPG (for table-top gamers) for a while that's come up with a good broad three categories for game types: Narrativist, Simulationist, and Gamist.

      Narrativist games focus on a story.
      Simulationist games focus on exploration.
      Gamist games focus on overcoming challenges.

      The main emphasis of The Forge for table-top gamers is to point out that games (and gaming groups) that try to satisfy everyone tend to satisfy no one and to increase awareness of alternative playstyles for people stuck in games that they find disatisfying.

      Eastern / console RPGs are narrativist games that focus primarily on the telling of a good story and in getting you emotionally involved in the plot. Western / PC RPGs are simulationist games that have an open-ended world to explore and let you shape a character into anything you want. The only purely gamist games with little emphasis on plot and exploration might be a few Strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem and Makai Kingdom and some action RPGs like Shining Tears. All RPGs have some element of all three play styles, but all workable RPGs tend to strongly reward one of the three player goals over the others.

      People just need to recognize that tastes differ and quit falling back on the "no true Scotsman" argument.
    • by ADRA ( 37398 )
      RPG's as a word simply means different things to different people. I've had it described as eastern vs. western games in the past. In the one extreme, you have the japanimation crowd who've come from the manga/anime world and like to be a part of a story.

      There's the other group of RP'ers that've played the D&Ds or played out in the back yards doing this or that playing make believe. They more enjoy being someone of focus and allowing the story to flow around them.

      You have two groups of people who've exp
      • In the one extreme, you have the japanimation crowd who've come from the manga/anime world and like to be a part of a story.

        I like to be a part of a story too. I like a few console RPGs because they have a strong story, but the "part of" is rather lacking.

        Take FF7, my first exposure to CRPGs for instance. Second time through the game, I tried treating Yuffie like dirt at every opportunity:
        Yuffie:"Oh, so you can't sleep either huh.... Thanks for helping me before. I have this feeling that me
    • There's been a dearth of other RPGs worth buying, for the past year

      Actually, you said that there hadn't been a decent RPG out for almost a year. There is a difference. I'll give you that the last year hasn't been as bountiful as some years, but there were, nonetheless, a number of great console RPGs. The fact that they didn't all sell as well as your average Square-Enix game doesn't mean they were poor games; brand recognition is a huge factor in sales. There are many, many people who refuse to even con
      • Let me quote from my comment and bold it for emphasis:

        there hasn't been a decent RPG out for almost a year -- not one that I've wanted to buy, anyway.

        I'm sure there were decent RPGs released in the last year, but none of them piqued my interest, or the interest of my friends. My friends are a pretty diverse group, and if NONE of them thought anything was worth getting -- except for a few that picked up DQ8 -- that says something.

        I agree that some people refuse to get anything but Final Fantasy, but I'

    • Re:Snobbery and RPGs (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Jerf ( 17166 )
      What unique qualities make an RPG different from other games?

      Call me an RPG fundamentalist. A Role-Playing Game is a game where the primary focus is on you playing the role of some kind of human-type thing. It is not a binary distinction, it is a continuum.

      On the far non-RPG end, we have things like puzzle games. Tetris is not an RPG. Quake is not an RPG, because it's about blowing things up. Something like Half-Life gets a little RPG-ness; I've never played it so I don't know how much but I get the impress
    • Hypocritical (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DoctaWatson ( 38667 )
      You claim that that your previous statement that there's a "dearth of RPG's worth buying".

      People disagreed, citing many wonderful games that have come out recently.

      You respond, saying that they don't hold any interest for you... ...and then you have the nerve call the people who did play them snobs!
      • First, "wonderful" is a subjective judgment -- as was my assertion that there haven't been any RPGs worth buying for a year. You cannot treat them as objective just for the purposes of argument.

        Second, the "snob" factor was mentioned solely in reference to people who only consider a single, tightly defined genre as "real" RPGs, excluding others that fall under the same umbrage for no logical reason.

        Third, your entire post is a wonderful of a tu quoque fallacy. Even if what you said was true, it wouldn't m

        • Of course your statements aren't any less true or false- because they're opinions.

          My point was that you shouldn't go around calling people snobs and then complain that there's only been one game you thought was worth playing in the last few years.

          You don't give a "logical reason" for disregarding those other RPG's, so why should anyone else have to give a logical reason for disregarding Kingdom Hearts 2?
  • Isn't a million units sold the point where a PS(2) title becomes a "greatest hits" title?

    If so, when will we see KH2 at $20? ^_^;
  • Okay, it was too easy - I can see why they did that. And a little stretched in a few places. But it was fun. And mostly: A Non-whiny Square hero (Sora) for the win. Heck, they even made fun of emo-kid Cloud.
    • Did you try playing it on Proud Mode? I've been playing videogames of various genres for over 15 years now (RPG, Action/Adventure, FPS, MMO, etc), and still found some parts of Proud to be a challenge.
      • No, you're right, I didn't try it on Proud. By the time I'd decided that it was a little too easy I was too far along in the game to want to start over again. Maybe if I let it sit a while I'll want to play it all over again.
        • I found the game a lot harder if the only thing I did was hit "X". As soon as I started using the square and especially the triangle buttons the game got a lot easier.

          Of course Proud mode is a lot harder too.
  • is that we are sure of the gender of the main charecter.

Today is the first day of the rest of your lossage.